The internet is wrong when it comes to women’s sports | Ali Riley

This week on #Broadlines, Rae and Natalie sat down with former Angel City FC co-captain Ali Riley for a conversation that looks at what it takes to keep going when systems fall short and what becomes possible when players, fans, and communities build something better. 

Ali points to a gap that goes beyond the field, where records, stats, and even basic information about women athletes are often overlooked or inaccurate online. Who has scored the most international goals? It’s not Cristiano Ronaldo, it’s Christine Sinclair.

Ali reflects on abuse that shook the league, the collective strength that moved it forward, and her experience as one of the only Asian players on the pitch at a time when visibility was rare.

Ali shares what it meant to compete through it all and why women’s soccer is the smartest bet in sports.

CHAPTERS...
00:00 – Inside the women’s soccer 300% global revenue surge since 2021 and why you should invest now
06:52 – Ali Riley gets real about the strength it took to get to this place of power
41:02 – The future really is female: why the women’s soccer boom is just getting started

EPISODE CREDITS...
Hosted by Natalie Lizarraga and Rae Williams
Directed by Lauren Ames
Executive Produced by Sydney Kramer and Rachel Apirian
Produced by Lauren Ames, Rae Williams, and Natalie Lizarraga
Filmed & Edited by Davielle Waldner

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Broadlines is a production of The Female Quotient and recorded in Los Angeles, California. Write us here to submit your own Dear FQ and join the conversation!

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

If you want to make money, you should probably invest in women's sports.

SPEAKER_00 0:03

We all need to take note of that.

SPEAKER_01 0:06

We have a very special guest with us, Allie Riley. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 0:11

A former Angel City FC team captain. Women's soccer could not be sustained in the United States. When I got drafted out of college, the league that I played in, it folded. Then I went to a new team, the whole league folded. I mean, that says it all. If you love something and it's your life, it's really hard to make it into a living. The salaries, it was$6,000 a season. You know, in 2021, there was a huge reckoning. We're looking at sexual abuse in the league, harassment, discrimination. Players came forward with allegations and outlined the abuse that they had faced along with other players. It was a really, really dark day. That's too emotional for me. We are the talent. We are the product. You can't have a league if your players aren't willing to play.

SPEAKER_00 0:54

Welcome to Broadlines, a weekly video podcast by the Female Quotient, where real headlines meet real conversation. I'm Ray Williams, entertainment, lifestyle, and culture journalist. And I'm Natalie Lazaraga, journalist and former news anchor.

SPEAKER_01 1:06

And today we're going to be talking about the growing investment in women's sports, specifically soccer. We're going to be joined a little later by Allie Riley. You know, when I first started reporting, I actually never saw very much about women's sports, but they've come so far. So I'm really excited to dig into that.

SPEAKER_00 1:22

Before, maybe you didn't see headlines about women's sports, and now they're everywhere.

SPEAKER_01 1:26

I grew up in an Olympic household, I like to call it. So my mother is a four-time Olympian. So I grew up seeing women in sports. Like that wasn't like a question. Like I saw women on the track, I saw my mom training, you know, all of her friends were athletes. That was my norm. So it didn't kind of occur to me that there wasn't as much attention on sports and women in sports, and then specifically women's team sports until I actually got to America. And I was like, oh. America will do that too. I was like, oh wait. It was just a very interesting shift. I feel like when I got here, what I saw is that team sports for women haven't always been treated very seriously.

SPEAKER_00 2:07

Yeah, I think it's interesting that you say that in Jamaica, with your mom, obviously being an Olympian, you got to America and we're like, wait, you don't champion women's sports? I'm so confused. That's a very unique point of view for people to have.

SPEAKER_01 2:20

Yeah. And you know, Jamaica with our athletes, with our track teams and all of that, we're very into that. And then we don't actually have American football. We have what you guys call a soccer. We have football, and that's always been a thing. We've had our reggae boys. We got a national holiday when they made it to the World Cup. And then we have our women's football team that shortly followed that, you know, everybody rallied behind as well. I will say though, I noticed now that they still aren't getting the funding. But I think that's what I observed, you know, kind of growing up. And then when I was looking into it, I realized that one of the biggest drivers of progress here, especially in women's sports, is Michelle Kang. Because I was like, well, who, who's paying for it?

SPEAKER_00 2:57

Well, yeah, who's writing the checks now? Yeah. I mean, Michelle Kang is at the forefront of this, these investments. She's giving women's sports what they need to continue. I know she's said that they're used to a male model, like the model of recovery, the model of training was always under men. So now we're getting money, big money, with$25 million commitment to US soccer, driving all of these things. She owns three clubs. So if you're looking for inspiration when it comes to investment, when it comes to women's sports, Michelle Kang is it.

SPEAKER_01 3:30

And so that latest$25 million commitment is to the Kang's Women's Institute with a soccer forward foundation and just building research standards and support systems for women athletes that they've always deserved. And I'm interested when we introduce our guests a little bit later to kind of hear how that will be helpful and how that's needed within the sport. But we have few leaders investing at that scale.

SPEAKER_00 3:53

Yeah, I mean that is very true. It's a and it's a lot of money needed to kind of change how things have been going before. So when we look at just Deloitte last year, this is what kind of got the conversation going for me was this article. The article is titled Women's Elite Sports Exceed Expectations as revenues projected surpass US 2.3 billion in 2025. If there's a B in front, I know, right? I know there is money to be made, there is money had, and there are checks that need to be written to maintain this. Like it is safe to say when it comes to women's sports now, business is booming. We all need to take note of that. If you are at a company that is on the fence about investing in women's sports, literally, Ray and I will come to your office with these notes and give a full presentation on where the dollar bills need to go.

SPEAKER_01 4:46

Global revenue for women's sports has actually grown over 300% since 2021. And I'm mad that people are just catching on now, but I'm happy that people are catching on now when there is, you know, kind of money to put into sports like this.

SPEAKER_00 5:01

This is basically a pitch for where to send your money. Okay. So the first thing is commercial value. Women's soccer remains one of the largest revenue generators in women's sports globally. And then, of course, media deals.

SPEAKER_01 5:13

I think one of my favorite things, and I'll mention this some more later, is the kind of rise of women's sports media as well. Um, just people covering, just like women talking about women's sports to other women. And so those media deals, there are major TV deals with CBS, ESPN, and then other streaming partners that have helped to increase the visibility and reach just significantly more people. And I love that. Like I love to view my sports. There's an account I love. Hoops for hotties. And it's like an equal mix for me of like the sport and all the details, but also all of the drama and then how the drama ties into the sport too, because that's also a thing in basketball. Um, but just even accounts like that, because I think there's so many people, women and men, that are interested in sports in different types of ways. And so I love that there's now avenues for everybody to get into their favorite sport. Um, so media is the second one.

SPEAKER_00 6:10

Yeah, and fan engagement that we're seeing year over year. We have stats from 2024 that the National Women's Soccer League hit over 2 million total attendance and had more games with 10,000 plus fans than the previous year. That's according to Yahoo! Sports growth is huge. The numbers continue to climb year over year, which if you're an investor, makes sense. What are we doing here? If I need something to invest my money into that's going to continuously grow, continuously grow my accounts and marketing ads, etc., that's a smart move.

SPEAKER_01 6:43

One of the things that I wondered is what this kind of looks like from the other side. Because we've talked about, you know, the kind of optics from the outside, the growth, the investments, the fans, the fans, but what does it look like from the actual field or from the pitch? So we have a special guest for that, Allie Riley. Welcome. Thank you. So I'm gonna kind of give a very brief bio because, of course, you have so many accolades to your game. Um, but here's just a few. She is a former Angel City FC team captain. She's played for a bunch of teams, including international ones. She's competed in five World Cups. That's five more than me and five more than Natalie. Speak for yourself. No, yeah, and then four Olympic Games, which is crazy. And then she is hosting a new podcast called Time Wasting with Kelly O'Hara. And then, of course, she is a current CBS sports analyst. So many things. So please welcome Allie O'Brien. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 7:40

Well, I've just been sitting here like these women speak my language. You are the ones I want to go to drinks with. You get it. You have all the stats, all the numbers, all the things I'm trying to say all the time. So you get it. So I can't wait to yap with you two.

SPEAKER_00 7:56

Allie, I have to ask you a question because we were just going over this and you had something to say about it. Doing the research for this, you think you're getting all the notes. And you and Ray just had this conversation that I thought was so interesting. The internet's not always right when it comes to women's sports.

SPEAKER_02 8:12

No, well, we know the internet is not always right, but especially uninformed when it comes to women's sports. And I think that's just such a reflection of society and culture, especially sports culture. And we have this huge gap when it comes to Google. When you say who has scored the most international goals, it comes up Cristiano Ronaldo, when actually it's Christine Sinclair. So there's just the status quo being men's sports, the norm being men, it is reflected in the internet. And I actually notice I obviously, when I'm doing research, I don't use AI, but I went a little on Chat GPT, just wanted to see a couple of notes when I was preparing for Women's Champions League. Wrong, everything wrong, which teams players play for, some of their bioinformation. And that's just a word of warning to everybody out there. But also, the more we talk about women's sports, the more we who are informed talk about it, that will also educate these algorithms and just make sure that the internet is more accurate for something that is really, really important, something that we all hope that people will be talking about more and more.

SPEAKER_01 9:15

Yeah. Cause I notice, even just for us as journalists, like we're used to using several sources, thank God, um, not just one. And so when we were looking in, even as we were making notes with our producers, there were several things that we were just like, wait, we're seeing this and then we're seeing this. Whereas when you Google a men's sports topic, it's just so clear. And then there's articles about it. So that kind of angered me as a journalist and as someone who is used to, again, doing multiple sources as opposed to, you know, the average person who might just ask Chat GPT and take it with a grain of salt. Um, but what I'm curious about is you, you, your first season was in 2021, correct? With Angel City. With Angel City in 2021. What would you say in, I mean, it's just been a few short years, but I feel like these are a few short transformational years. Yes. What would you say the difference in like just even attendance at games, facilities, all of that when you started as compared to to, you know, when you freshly retired?

SPEAKER_02 10:09

I think we can go back even further, actually, because when I got drafted out of college, this was 2010. And the league that I played in, which was the women's professional soccer league before the NWSL, it lasted three short years and it folded. The team I got drafted to, it folded. Then I went to a new team, the whole league folded. And that, I mean, that says it all. Women's sports could not be sustained. Women's soccer could not be sustained in the United States, where the women's national team is the best team in the world, has the most resources, and there weren't enough, I won't say fans, but there wasn't enough investment to make it something that people even knew to watch every week, to knew to attend every week. They couldn't buy merch. I was looking at my parents, and you know, my dad, they they kept everything. They lost a lot in the fires, but my dad, what he chose to evacuate with were a lot of my old Alley Riley jerseys and t-shirts. Wow. But the teams, the clubs I played for, they weren't able to buy a jersey. Yeah. So things have changed so much in the merch game and just all of how how I don't think we were on TV, even when the NWSL started, it was on YouTube, then it was on Lifetime. Now it's this uh, I want to say over$200 million um media deal where there's different networks showing the games. And the games were played on baseball diamonds and in high school stadiums, and there was no conversation. We were the ones talking about it. And so, again, full circle, now being someone who gets to speak about the game and be paid for it, women weren't doing that, men weren't doing that. And even with the NWSL, when I went to Europe because the league folded, I didn't want to come back. I was watching the salaries, it was$6,000 a season, living with host families, the resources, just everything, everything has changed. And then enter a club like Angel City that was founded by women. We had a woman coach, we had a woman, woman GM, president. Um, now you we talk about Willow Bay, having a woman owner, and everything from before we even played our first game, there are 16,000 season tickets purchased. We have this state-of-the-art facility, and we're doing research on our menstrual cycles. We've participated in ACL studies. There's so much thought about the holistic experience of not just an athlete, but a woman athlete, a female athlete. One of my closest friends, Claire Emsley, she just had a baby and the support she got during her pregnancy to train, to lift, individualized programs, so much intention. Now her return to play. We're gonna see her this season back with Angel City. None of that. There were women who couldn't consider coming back after giving birth, after having a family. Um, I I was one of them. It just, I didn't feel that I had the economic means or just the support and the resources to have a baby and come back. And that was a huge dream of mine that I wasn't able to realize. So everything has changed.

SPEAKER_01 13:29

Yeah, and deals and stuff like that. I know, um, not particularly in soccer, and I'm sure it happened in soccer too, but in a lot of other sports, you know, women would get pregnant and lose the little endorsements that they did have. I think it happened to Alice and Felix, like they dropped her, their sponsors would drop her. So to see that all of that is different now and and in a relatively short amount of time, I think is just I'm so happy.

SPEAKER_00 13:54

You've seen it all. Like your stories start from the, you know, the beginning where there were leagues that have now dissolved and that were and you had to go to Europe. When you when you played overseas and in other places, what is the biggest difference you see of women's soccer being received there versus the United States?

SPEAKER_02 14:11

This is such an interesting dynamic to talk about because when I went to Chelsea, that was the first time that I really experienced this kind of, you know, the facility and just living in a country where they are nuts about football. Football is life. Football is life in most parts of the world. Here I would say women's football is life, which is something I like because when I was in Europe, I was at Chelsea, I was at Bayern Munich, two of the biggest clubs in the world. But no matter how high we went or how celebrated we were, you are always overshadowed by men's football because that is everything. So I still felt this kind of weird dissonance because I'm like, here we are, I'm making more money. The brand is really big, but I still walk past, you know, the men and their vehicles that they would drive and their parking lot and their facility and go past all of that to the back of the facility where the women's facility was. A lot has changed since 2018 at Chelsea. So that it is way more equal now. But that was just so surprising to me that I still felt like something isn't right still. And then coming to the US and especially Angel City, where we're not competing, we don't have a men's team as part of Angel City. San Diego Wave is separate. You know, this is, and you have investors like Michelle King who are invested solely in women's soccer. So now Chelsea has separated. So we have Alexis Ohanian coming in and investing now. You can invest in Chelsea women. But that's where in this country, I came back and I felt really empowered as a woman athlete, as a woman soccer player. Whereas in Europe, I felt more like the soccer, the football part. But as a woman, I still felt so the disparity. I felt the disparity every single day. And here, men's soccer is growing. And I'm so excited about the men's World Cup coming here. And I feel really lucky to be in this time where the US women, they are ranked higher than the men. It was their, you know, fight for equal pay. They make the US men's team money because they qualify and win World Cups. And so being a w woman athlete, being a woman's soccer player in this country, I do think you're elevated and your brand, you're amplified and you're given this microphone and this platform that at the time that I was in Europe, the soccer I loved. But in terms of the brand, and when I was injured and why when I wasn't playing, that was really hard for me because you look outside the field. Where am I getting fulfillment? And I wasn't feeling that. Whereas here, now, even as I was injured for the last two years, I'm retired. And everything we've just spoken about, I'm still in it, I'm still valued, I'm still celebrated, I'm I'm invested in as a former athlete. So it is a very kind of interesting mix. And I just I wonder as soccer grows even more in Europe, as we see teams like Chelsea and Arsenal really invest in their women's side, what will that look like for the NWSL and a club like Angel City? Because they will have that history and that tradition of men's football, plus now investment into women, whereas we don't have the tradition, but we're we're really women forward, women's sports forward. And yeah, just culturally different here. So long-winded answer, but it just was kind of a complex feeling.

SPEAKER_01 17:48

Did you find that when you were in college before you actually got into before you got drafted, you got into that, that it was like a similar landscape? Because we know from a lot of studies, and we'll get into more of them, that you know, this investment has to start earlier than just, you know, you you pop up an angel city. It's got to start before that. So did you feel like when you were in college that that was happening for you, that it was, you know, kind of viewed as even semi-equal? At Stanford, the women's soccer team, we were, we were the bosses.

SPEAKER_02 18:19

So again, I was I was I won't say lucky. I mean, we worked hard for that. Yeah. But I did get this experience where women collegiate athletes at Stanford, and we're still seeing it today, we're so celebrated. And our soccer team and our football team were struggling during that time. So women's soccer, women's basketball, women's volleyball, we were, we were the shit. And I felt celebrated as a woman. I felt like my leadership skills and my who I was as a player and as a person was really, yeah, championed by my head coach, who's still the coach at Stanford. Also, shout out Paul Ratcliffe, because that's a long time to be a head coach at a university when things have changed so much. So I think I was really, really lucky in that. That was the perfect school for me to go to. And um the way we were received was very impactful in terms of positive reinforcement for then me moving into the professional soccer world, especially when like the league folded. But I had this base of confidence in no, it doesn't matter that I'm a woman, I'm an athlete, I know my value. And that was again why I went to Europe. I wasn't gonna sit around and wait for this new league to come into the US where they're paying$6,000 a year. No, absolutely not.

SPEAKER_01 19:37

A year? Yeah. When you said it the first time, I was like, I don't I she can't mean a year.

SPEAKER_02 19:41

Yeah, she means a game. Yeah. The season was shorter at the time. So players, but then again, what are you doing the rest of the year? So they would go to Australia or they would coach. And again, you're living with host families and not really encouraging, like, oh, I should have a family. Like, right.

SPEAKER_01 19:57

No, it's very, really, really tough. One of the things that you mentioned, or we've talked about, is just the fact that obviously, especially earlier on, the men's team had, you know, bigger things, bigger, nicer cars, like bigger facilities. But did you also feel like any kind of sexism? And and I mean, I know that's it almost sounds like a trite question because we know that that exists, but what was that like in your experience?

SPEAKER_02 20:22

I will say I think women's soccer, it does look different than men's soccer, but it's not worse. It's different. We should be appreciated and respected as such because we're not playing against men. So what's the big deal? Like we're playing against women. It's women's sports, women athletes, we're competing against each other. So does it matter that men have a faster sprint time than us? No. Women's soccer is equally as exciting, equally as amazing the play, if not more, because we as women, we have second jobs, we're giving birth to children, we're raising families, like we are hustling so hard and still able to do the exact same work, if not more.

SPEAKER_00 21:03

I never thought of it until you just said it. How I would sit there and defend that and be like, well, but it's and I'm like, why do I have to it's women in sports? Bye. Like if you don't like it, it's not for you.

SPEAKER_02 21:14

When you think of fans, if there's a clip of a footy fail, you know, someone makes a really bad mistake or an own goal, if it's women, how they come for us. Yeah. And I'm like, every weekend you could pick something like this out at a men's soccer game at any level. And it's funny. It's just funny because we've accepted that men's sports is established, that it's professional, that it's serious, that it's the real deal. So if someone makes a mistake, oh, it was just a little funny thing. If it's us, they should not be playing.

SPEAKER_01 21:45

Yeah. I've been playing.

SPEAKER_02 21:46

They should not be paid when I see the comments, when I see just people taking the piss out of women's sports simply because we are women, it kills me. Even with the NWSL, you know, in 2021, there was a huge Huge reckoning. We're looking at sexual abuse in the league, harassment, discrimination. I'm not saying that doesn't happen in men's sports, but some of the sexual abuse that we know women face in the workplace, we see it in sports. And that was a really, it could have taken down the entire league. That is the league folded when I was playing in the WPS because of a lawsuit against an owner/slash coach. So for those of us who had lived and kind of experienced that period, it was very triggering to have it happen again 10 years later. And our deepest fear was if we come forward with these allegations, if we take this public, if we take this to the league, that another women's sports league in the United States will fold. And I think some people wanted us to feel that.

SPEAKER_01 22:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:52

That do you know what you're risking here if you, you know, threaten to go on strike, if you say something, if women share their stories. And so for that, again, a positive outcome of coming forward and of having our players' association, having a union, all the collective voice was that the changes were made at the league level and the league made huge changes in terms of um putting systems in place and just really, really making it clear that the women coming forward, that was the right thing to do. And it was the coaches and the abusers who would be removed. They would not, it would not be the soccer taken away from us. Right. An investigative report came out. The Athletic also broke broke the news. Sally AITS did a really in-depth investigation, and players came forward with allegations, and Alex Morgan was a really, really important figure in this with her platform and her voice. And it was Monashim and Sinead Fairly who came forward and outlined the abuse that they had faced along with other players. And to read that article from The Athletic, to see it in black and white, typed out what these women had experienced. Yeah, it was a really, really dark day. It was a reckoning that took a lot of courage, a lot of courage. Um, but there were other players who really outlined in depth what they had gone through. It is horrific that that is what it took. Um, but I I'm proud that we as a league, as the players, came together to do whatever it would take to make sure to put protections in place, to hope and fight that it wouldn't happen again.

SPEAKER_00 24:40

Can you just speak on the power of everybody working, of women working together?

SPEAKER_02 24:47

I would love to because when we work together, we can't be silenced and there is so much power and we get it. And it goes across teams, it goes across leagues, across sports, across the globe. And that is what I really realized. What was so scary, I think, for those players who came forward in the WPS when the league folded, we weren't connected in the same way. We didn't have the players' association, social media. You know, I can send a DM to any, anyone, but I mean anyone in the women's football world, and they, you know, might actually accept my DM request because we feel this connection to each other and we realize our voice together will be stronger. So that for me had a similar, we had a uh an investigation. We had some really big challenges with the New Zealand national team. And I felt very, very isolated. I didn't want to, you know, rock the boat for my teammates who who weren't affected. And it took, you know, three of my teammates saying, Are you kidding? If you walk away from this team, I will walk away from this team. We're not leaving this team in a place where you feel silenced and and things could happen again, you know? So it really that snapped me out of this feeling where, which is how people want you to feel in position positions of power, that you are alone and you are weak and no one will listen to you. And it really, when another woman looks at you and they say, I see you and I hear you, and we're gonna use our voice together, and it's it's that it's never then two. And then it's four. And then it's eight, and then it's eight hundred, and we're looking, you know, what's happening in the W using their collective power. Um, and just the NWSL that year was really, really defining. And I I hope that everyone involved that season felt that because that is something we can so clearly tell the younger generations. It's okay if they weren't playing in 2021, but I can tell you what it felt like to stand at the center circle and every every team did it. So every player at the certain minute, we determined what minute of every single game that weekend stood in the center circle together, you know, arm in arm, stopped the games. And that changed the league forever, changed women's soccer, women's sports. Because when that happened for us and we got the things that we wanted changed, then you're looking at, okay, if basketball, they need, they need something lacrosse track. We're sharing this is what worked for us. This is why it's so important to have a collective bargaining agreement, to have a players' association. These are the concrete reasons why, and this is why it will work. And we are the talent, we are the product. And that is one time where, you know, I'm never gonna say we are just a product, right? But in this case, when we're talking about business, you can't have a league if your players aren't willing to play. And we are just so powerful together. And as women, what I mean, we are so smart. Again, we've had to have an education, we've had to have second jobs, we have started charities and organizations and foundations and media networks because we are so damn smart and we work so hard and we always have had to. And so now it was we're seeing a generation that we are fighting so hard that they get to be just athletes, but they still will need to have those skills because someone is always gonna come for us. Someone's always gonna try to tear us down. So even if players are now making millions of dollars with their commercial deals and with their salaries, and I'm hoping we're gonna see that in the W, especially, someone will still try to come and take that away from you, or you deserve even more. And that's when the collective voice will become very important again.

SPEAKER_00 28:33

That center circle story almost made me cry, girl.

SPEAKER_01 28:37

That's too emotional for me. Do you think that now, especially with the progress that's been made, that women's ownership is a big part of making sure that some of this never happens again?

SPEAKER_02 28:50

I hope so. And obviously, women also abuse other women. So not all of these were just about men abusing women. Um, but I do think that women understand, and this is what I've felt firsthand with Angel City, that we are not just soccer players. We are not just athletes, we are people. And that is everything from our daily experience, um, having systems in place to report abuse. Um, but the commissioner of the league was a woman at the time. So it really is about the right people going beyond the really terrible things that can happen. There's also, like I was saying, support if someone wants to have a baby, what we want to do after sport to make sure that there are resources in place. If you want to build your brand, just having that kind of purpose and support that means a lot. And that helped me play my best football, really. I know people look at Angel City and in the beginning, it was like, oh, it's just Hollywood and you know, it's all about the celebrities coming to the games. But no, that club changed my life as a person and as a player. And before I got injured, I really felt like I was playing some of my best football because I had a purpose. When we scored goals, a thousand meals were being donated to people in the Los Angeles area who were in need. The club's values were my shared values and standing for inclusivity and celebrating the LGBTQ plus community, these are all things that made me feel like I could be my authentic self because I am an ally and I'm an advocate and I believe in equal rights. That is who I played for, and that was who I could be when I was kicking a soccer ball. So I think that's where this understanding, if you treat people, athletes, as human beings, you will they will perform their best. So even if your only goal is to win games, you should still treat people with respect, how they want to be treated, not how you want to be treated, how they want to be treated, and see them as a person when we have to retire, because every professional athlete, this is not a job you can do. It doesn't matter how good you are. It's not one you can do until you're, you know, until you're 65. That's who we're spending the rest of our life with. And that's who, that's who I really had to think about when I was coming to terms with my injury and my retirement. And I was so lucky to be at a club like Angel City, where they supported me in that decision, helped prepare me for the transition because they saw me as a person and as a woman. And so that I do think that other women do understand that better. That was going pretty deep. I think just on a more day-to-day level, language. It is not sports and women's sports. It is not the World Cup and the Women's World Cup. It is the men's World Cup and the Women's World Cup. So that's something for me, just daily, daily, daily. And my family and my husband, I'm like, this is the language we use because we're talking about, you know, Google and Chat GPT and just society and culture. It has to be very clear that men's sports, that men are not the status quo.

SPEAKER_01 32:05

Yeah. And I think we're we're so trained that way because I'm like, even thinking, like we've probably said that in the stats, that's because of how media and society portrays them differently. And it's interesting because in other sports, um, it's becoming a little more equal. Like you don't really say like men's track and field and women's track and field, you kind of just say track and field. So I'm hoping that in the coming years we can get used to that, even as media professionals and you know, just you know, casual viewers that we're gonna, you know, say the men's World Cup and the women's World Cup, not the World Cup.

SPEAKER_02 32:36

And I mean it's built into we have the NBA and then the WNBA. Like it's the M NBA, okay? No, but I think just if someone says Arsenal's playing, men are women. I'm gonna ask you and make, oh, the men are playing, if that's what you mean, you know? Like why should we just assume that you're talking about the men?

SPEAKER_01 32:54

I wondered earlier too, uh, what it meant for you also to be a minority in this sport, because we know what the numbers are. I don't have them exactly written down, but we know there's lots of research about, you know, minority women in sports and kind of how they're I mean, women are worse off and then minority women are worse off, worse off. So, what does that mean to you to even, you know, one, be able to be an advocate for inclusivity through Angel City, but also yourself to, you know, have people look at you and be like, shit.

SPEAKER_02 33:26

Oh, this also makes me really emotional because when I was growing up, I felt so different being Asian and not having teammates or other students or friends look like me. And growing up in Pacific Palisades, very white neighborhood, um, and my mom was so different than the other moms at school. I didn't understand at the time it was because we were Asian. I like, you know, you don't it doesn't, you don't like clock it at that age. I felt that what soccer did for me, it made me feel like I could be myself and that I was strong and it was cool to be a strong girl. And it didn't, I didn't think about that. I looked different as much, you know? Um, and in school it wasn't cool to be smart. In school, it wasn't cool to be a girl who wanted to play sports with the boys, and that was lonely. And then on the soccer field with my other gals, and I'm an only child. So they were all like my sisters. I just felt like I could be myself. My dad was my first coach, so obviously he like really, really pumped me up. He still hypes me up way too much. There was one other Chinese player when I was a senior, she was a freshman. So I kind of felt like, okay, there was like one on a team at a time. There was one black player on the team at a time. And I look around now. Oh my gosh, in the college game. And when I just go to anything for football for her, or you just go to AYSO, whatever, watch club team here in Los Angeles. It is so diverse. At Angel City, the first game, I mean, I was beside myself for so many reasons when we had that inaugural game in 2022. But people came up to me, fans, Asian fans said, This has changed my life and it's too late for me to play now. But you've just opened my eyes and seeing you live out my dream, you know, has given so much to me. And for parents too, when they have a daughter who's Asian and how much it meant for her to see me and June Endo playing on this team in front of 22,000 people every week. I think it's uh obviously there are different reasons why different minorities like aren't represented in sports. For Asians, it's really cultural, right? It's um less economical, it's cultural. And um, we're just our parents from a generation where it did not feel like a sustainable profession. My mom was really scared when I wanted to go into sports because she didn't think I would be able to be financially stable. And just seeing how this culture, like the shift in culture, is really, really meaningful to me. And it's really special. And I know, especially since soccer is in a sport where you have to be particularly tall. I'm like, this is this can be for us, you guys. And going beyond um being of Asian background, just the diversity as a whole, and look at the US women's national team. You know, this is a team that the frontline triple espresso, like you can, you know, it's people joke about it, but that is serious representation. There's so many things that have changed. The sport has grown so much, but that's something that um, again, I didn't really dare to kind of dream about, but it is finally we're seeing teams that are actually representative of the cities and the countries that we live in.

SPEAKER_01 36:49

There was also like this connotation of athletes having to, especially even as women, look a certain way, have a certain style. Like maybe it was just like, you know, they they thought of women as, you know, either you had to be butch or you had to be like whatever it was.

SPEAKER_02 37:03

Ultra stereotype was try to counter the butch stereotype.

SPEAKER_01 37:07

Like and now there's kind of everybody and they're serving style and hairstyles and sport and everything. So I I'd love to see that. I'm curious what in on the same vein, like what do your DMs look like in terms of are you getting lots of, you know, people just on a daily like being like, you're so cool. I do.

SPEAKER_02 37:24

And it's this is again, we're talking about social media where it can be really great and like a little bit weird and dark. Talk about the good one. But I really try to read as many messages as possible because I can connect with people that, you know, they maybe came to a game, but they weren't able to get an autograph, or they especially around around my retirement. Oh my gosh, just messages about how I've impacted somebody's life. Like it is That's very real.

SPEAKER_00 37:52

I I mean your story about people coming up to you to tell you that they've impacted your life. Not that it was also gonna make me cry. That's why I couldn't speak during it. You're all you're on the verge. I'm gonna do it soon if you have another story. I think of my own daughter, and it's so hard to get out, but it's people like you that it's it seems simple, but her seeing it is something I didn't get to see. It's important to parents.

unknown 38:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:17

And like small things like that makes a huge difference. And also takes off like the workload for us because we just say, look at her. Like, I'm not gonna run down the field, but you know who does it really well. Like, so it's it's nice to have that. Um, a total switching side note here so that I can stop crying. Can we talk about this Angel City fashion? You guys come out of this tunnel.

SPEAKER_01 38:38

It's one of my favorite things on this. Like, I'm not even kidding, it's one of my favorite things on this earth. That's why I mentioned like the hairstyles. I mean, when we walked in today, I in my head I was like, hey, if a woman of color is making sports merch, you know I'm buying it.

SPEAKER_02 38:52

So shout out Domo Wells. Obviously, um, she she made the merchandise for Washington Spirit. And then the NWSL was like, now you gotta make merchant for every single team. So I'm so glad now to have um her Angel City little kit here. But I uh it is really, really powerful, I think, to see women be able to express themselves. Oh, it's great. You have it on the pitch, and I love how, like, if a woman is has her hair a certain way or wants to wear makeup or lipstick while she it's not for the male gaze, it's for herself. Yeah, it is what makes her feel good. If you want to roll those shorts up, I know we always talk about like soccer icks. I'm like, girl, go for it. Like you show those legs, whatever you want to do, you know? And then we get like the the tunnel fit.

SPEAKER_01 39:39

Tunnel walks are incredible.

SPEAKER_02 39:41

I just, and you know, if you're not into it, it doesn't matter. Like, but if you are, I love that it's become part of our culture. It sure has.

SPEAKER_00 39:49

And I don't know if it's an LA thing or if everybody likes you guys look extra. I'm just like, I mean, it is you ate and there were no crumbs and you guys look amazing. I'm like, imagine taking that off to put on your soccer uniform after, like, we look like we could go out right now.

SPEAKER_02 40:06

Some of my team, especially when it goes to heels, I'm like, I I could never. And then I realized some of my teammates would like put them on for the walk and then take, I'm like, you are taking care of your feet. So it's good. And same with the W. I'm like, girls, you look amazing. But amazing. I'm so glad we're getting celebrated and noticed for it. And it is just another way for young girls to feel represented and just give them ideas and connect in. Like, I like how she has her hair and I love this. And you can be whatever and whoever you want and still perform on that field and be an amazing athlete and win medals and win World Cups, and you can be whoever you are. And that's the message I think, especially for young girls. We just have to keep pushing that. And so also shout out the social teams for taking in the media, the photographers, taking the photos, helping us just look our best, feel our best, and putting those edits out on the internet.

SPEAKER_00 41:02

I think too, like as you said, like you're multidimensional. You're not just out there to play the sport. Now that things are marketed and people are paying attention, which I don't know how you feel about the eyes now, as you've worked so hard to get them. It seems like, is it too little, too late? Is this just a flicker of magic right now, or is this a long-term thing? I mean, we did see ESPN put a Sunday show out that is all women's sports. We've seen media truly invest, but it might feel, I mean, you could speak to this, but like a little bit of PTSD, like maybe you felt like you were at one point at some point and then it got taken away. And so it's like, it's hard not to tread, maybe want to tread lightly of like, is this really happening? Are we like peaking right now? And is this really going on? Because I'm sure you've had moments before where you thought it and then it was ripped from you.

SPEAKER_02 41:50

I think what helps me with that is because I think as millennials or the, you know, 30 plus, 35 plus, we always have that voice in the back of our head. It's too good to be true.

SPEAKER_01 41:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:00

But then I think of Trinity Rodman and Alyssa Thompson, Kennedy Fuller. I mean, they're getting younger and younger. This is all they know, and it's all they're gonna ever, it's just gonna get better and better. And they have that confidence. And that makes me feel confident because it's still not normal for me. I see a boy or a man in a woman's sports jersey, and I'm still surprised. And that's my own trauma. That's what I've gone through. And I feel like that's, you know, what our generation is probably we're always gonna have that until maybe I see my daughter, hopefully, one day, she doesn't exist yet, have such a different landscape that she steps out into the world into. But I it's so funny you say that because for me, it is always there. And I don't know if that will change, but I do from the data and the numbers. I know we're only going like this. Yeah. And I I know we love numbers. So I just the NWSL championship, it was the highest ever viewership. It was up 22% from 2024, which was 45% from 2023. Like it's just going like this. And with social media, I feel like we don't in non-traditional sports media, we don't have to rely on if suddenly uh, I won't say any names, if a major network were just suddenly pull the plug. Yeah, we don't have to rely on them because together and just women's sports and highlight her and whoever and female quotient will be posting about it, we'll be talking about it. You look at the engagement and the numbers of some of these athletes, of a Marta, of uh Alexis Puteas, and it's only gonna keep growing. And women also have the like do the purchasing in the families. And women's sports fans are so locked in. Oh, yeah. They want to wear the merch. They will come to games over and over again, they will spend the money, and that's not changing. So that's where I like I have to keep like doing these numbers like over and over again. And Angel City, we talked about how much the um it was over$100 million value valuation after two years. When our founders purchased the rights to the franchise, it was under$10 million. Two years later, over$100 million. And now Atlanta, they just purchased the rights to a franchise for the NWSL,$165 million. It's incredible, Jones. So we just go back to the numbers, which again, if you're not investing, what are you doing? What are you doing? Really doing it's not a charity. It's a Spark business move.

SPEAKER_00 44:35

Yeah, it is. And one of the things that I want to just, you said the women's, I have the staff for it, the numbers. Research from Parity found that women's soccer fans are 58% more likely to make purchases because of the brand sponsorship. Compared to fans of women's sports, more than one in four fans say they have bought something because of the sponsor showing a strong brand impact. So if you want to sponsor and you want people to buy your stuff, women's sports is where it's at.

SPEAKER_01 45:00

I'm literally not leaving a game without merch. I think there's a lot of women like me who want a piece of, you know, what they're invested in. So if that is Angel City, we want a piece of it to wear it, to, you know, have a little piece of ownership because we're that passionate about, you know, what it is that we're watching or what it is that we're doing. And I think that is something to consider when, you know, talking about this investment in sports is that there are also women who will financially support the other parts of this team because they want that piece of it. I wanted to ask you about your podcast. Oh my gosh, I'm so excited.

SPEAKER_02 45:36

So tell us what okay. So time wasting is a tactic. We call it like one of the dark arts in soccer, in sports, where you're trying to run out the clock, usually when you're winning, right? And then, you know, we listen to podcasts, not saying it's a waste of time, but you know, when you're trying to maybe kill some time when you're in the car. And so we loved that kind of play on words, a little tongue-in-cheek, and we will be balancing educated, very um, you know, fun, tactical, technical kind of commentary with some shithousery, you know, because that's that's who we are as people. So I think uh just having that come together in the podcasting world, and there are amazing podcasts on women's soccer, amazing former athletes who have great podcasts. And I think there is space for all of us. But what Kelly and I, we went to Stanford together, we got drafted to play our first professional season together. We have so much history. She played for the US, I played for New Zealand, we both retired a season apart, and we just have so many stories we can tell about the game, but also analyze and cover this upcoming NWL season. So that's where kind of, you know, we're not gonna waste your time, but it is time wasted.

SPEAKER_00 46:50

Also, let's like also you're low-key very funny. So entertaining, which will I will be tuning in.

SPEAKER_01 46:55

And this kind of goes to what I was saying earlier is that there are so many avenues for women and other people to kind of get in and enjoy women's sports in different ways. And I think having a podcast like that where you're talking about the technical stuff and you're at shithousery is my new favorite word, thanks to you. So that is just, I think it's brilliant.

SPEAKER_02 47:14

And we're getting paid. You know, this isn't just us, what I did for many years back in the day, just this side hustle where you're like, oh, I'm gonna put a video out there on YouTube and hope I get views, but what's really coming of it? Obviously, things have changed a lot in the social media space and sports media, women's sports media, but there are networks invested in us to create this content. And that is changing everything. And for me and Kelly, we retired at a time where we're seeing this boom and this growth in women's sports, specifically women's soccer. And you just think, oh, I've really missed out on the chance. You know, playing in World Cups, playing in Olympics, I didn't get paid anywhere near what the players are getting paid now. And I'm not saying that's like caused any bitterness or jealousy. I'm so proud because we, our generation, the generation before us, paved the way for us. And our whole, it felt like our whole career, our goal was to now create some environment where these women could have it so much better than we did. But you're kind of like, damn, I missed out. You know, yeah. But going into the media side, there, the investment, it is actually, we're getting to be rewarded and reap the benefits of that as well. Because the investment is going beyond just salaries and resources for active athletes. It's going into the coverage of the game, the coverage of women, which you two are experiencing as well. So I think that's been something that I wasn't prepared for and I didn't dare hope for, which I feel like my whole career was like not daring to hope for anything. And now to be retired, it's really scary. You don't have a stable, you know, a consistent paycheck coming in. You gotta find health insurance. And to realize that the investment is going beyond the field, the pitch. That has been something really encouraging. And for me, I have to look at the light. I have to celebrate the wins. Otherwise, I get way too bogged down and depressed, and I can't keep fighting. I need to celebrate these wins to give me energy to keep fighting because yes, we've come a long way, but we still have a long way to go.

SPEAKER_00 49:20

Yeah, it must feel good of a full circle moment, like you said, paving the way and seeing other people, other women thrive with what you guys laid a foundation. And then on the media side, like this is a big deal. You're getting paid. People are investing in you. What does that feel like?

SPEAKER_02 49:35

Just Women's Sports is who we're doing the podcast with. That was started by a former soccer player, a woman. You know, they cover women's sports, and that network has been able to grow. Think about together that everyone watches women's sports t-shirts. Yeah. Sold out, made a new one for volleyball, sold out. These are women who have come into the space. We talked about, you talked about Michelle King. Women, if a man's not doing it, step aside, a woman will do it, and she will do it better. And it is really interesting to see because I think there were so many men who didn't believe that it is women who have invested the money, and now it's women who are seeing the returns. And that is something I'm very happy about.

SPEAKER_00 50:13

Must be cool you get a paycheck and talk about soccer and you don't have to run. Exactly. You don't have to run all up and down the field. You get to do it and get paid.

SPEAKER_02 50:22

Yeah, and get paid more than I was paid as a soccer player. Oh, that's good too. It's it's good and bad.

SPEAKER_01 50:26

I mean, I mean, it's good that I think a lot of uh athletes, and especially for women, you know, wonder what's next when they retire. And so I think to see, especially for women, that there is even more money on the other side doing something you still love and talking about something you still love is so great.

SPEAKER_00 50:42

The takeaway from this conversation, and thank you so much for joining us. You you are amazing on the pitch and on the field, but this post-retired life, you are so incredibly knowledgeable. Your insight on everything is just you're very, very good. So if there's other broadcast people that you could do like a dual thing with, I you are just really, really, really good at that. And I thank you for joining our conversation. Some of our takeaways, mine at least, is that uh women athletes demonstrating that they can have and shift this this visibility shift that was mostly men when it comes to sports, but women athletes can make money for people. They can make money for themselves. There's this is not a separate women's men's. They are athletes, and you're watching that sport. I I think generating revenue, connecting deeply with fans. I think women do that much better than men. That's just a bias as a woman, but um amplifying brands, building brands, women-owned companies, these are these are companies that maybe wouldn't have had the visibility if if not for you guys. And I think we've learned with ESPN and other things, you can command media rights. And that's the the value of a female athlete, of a woman athlete. And I I don't think that's talked about enough that that whole list is why you should invest.

SPEAKER_01 52:01

And I think for me, I think the takeaway is that this stuff changes lives at the end of the day. Yeah. And I think, you know, it changes lives for viewers because it empowers women, especially younger women, to see the possibilities out there and to know that they can do stuff. It empowers the athletes themselves. Like if you love something, and I've I've seen this from other athletes as well, if you love something and it's your life, it it's it's really hard to make it into a living. That's kind of artist to everybody. So I think, you know, to to know that, you know, women can now make a living in their sport, beyond their sport. I love to hear that, you know, after retiring, you're still able to be a part of the sport that you love so much. Cause it it's hard to, I mean, to just kiss it goodbye. And, you know, like like what do you do next? This has been your eat, sleep, and drink for 33 years. You know what I mean? So, you know, that's that to me, this stuff changes lives and it changes the way parents parent. You said your your daughter coming along will see you do this. And it's it's the most empowering thing to look up and see that your parent was able to do this and influence these other people. And, you know, as a parent, to point your daughter, your son, whoever, to, you know, something bigger than than you can even describe.

SPEAKER_00 53:16

I think because like you said, you're not running down the pitch, but you can say Yeah, you know, like in my other life, I felt like I was a really good athlete, but I just became like a professional worker outer. And so that's where we landed. Maybe she'll be an athlete, who knows?

SPEAKER_01 53:28

The biggest thing is that equal opportunity is an economic strategy and that women's sports are entertaining. A yeah. So why not? And yeah, I think this has just been, if you haven't watched so far, if you haven't been, you know, watching sports, specifically sports played with women, because we're working on the verbiage now in the media. I think now is the time to tune in, tune into the next Angel City game, look at your local team, see who's there, take your kids. It is an investment worth making and it is entertaining to watch.

SPEAKER_00 54:02

We enjoy it. We're so happy, Allie, that you are here with us and your insight in everything. So let's say you had to give a 30-second pitch. There's a big investor in the elevator. What's the reason why? Yeah, it's Ray. What's the reason you give them to invest right now, women's soccer?

SPEAKER_02 54:18

The the numbers don't lie. You know, I can sit here and tell you that women are valuable, that women's soccer is exciting, that um all of these players and their sport is worth investing in. But look at the numbers because we've been treated as a charity for so long. And look at the viewership numbers, look at the valuation of these teams that are just going up, up, and up. The social media statistics. Um people want to know what we eat, what we drink, what we do, what we wear. You want to make money? I mean, merch flying off the shelves. So if you want to make money, you should probably invest in women's sports.

SPEAKER_00 54:57

Writing my imaginary check too.

SPEAKER_01 55:00

Thank you for joining us for this episode. And of course, thank you again to our guest, Allie Riley. We were talking about all things soccer, aka football. But join us for future episodes where we're talking about all things affecting women. This has been Broadlines.

SPEAKER_00 55:14

And sign up for the FQ newsletter. Don't forget you'll get more conversations like this. And we'll see you again next week.