Broadlines
Broadlines is an original podcast by The Female Quotient tailor-made for the 7 million (and counting!) leaders in our community. It’s the news reframed, rethought, and recharged for women who have thoughts on women’s health, motherhood, friendship, money, and everything in between. We don’t need another breaking news alert. We need a conversation that breaks the news down. Subscribe & listen today!
Broadlines
Winning gold and uplifting our youth | Angel McCoughtry
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
This week, Rae and Natalie sit down with WNBA legend, two-time Olympic gold medalist, and changemaker Angel McCoughtry for a powerful conversation about winning on and off the court.
Angel reflects on growing up as the only girl playing basketball in Baltimore, discovering the WNBA, and how visibility gave her the confidence to dream bigger. She also shares why so many girls leave sports too early, why access and mentorship matter, and how women’s sports are finally getting the attention they’ve always deserved.
Angel opens up about the mental health challenges athletes face after retirement, the loss of identity that can come when the game ends, and why more support is needed for life after sport.
From uplifting youth to speaking up for the next generation, this episode is a reminder that sports can change lives far beyond the scoreboard.
EPISODE CREDITS...
Hosted by Natalie Lizarraga and Rae Williams
Directed by Lauren Ames
Executive Produced by Sydney Kramer and Rachel Apirian
Produced by Lauren Ames, Rae Williams, and Natalie Lizarraga
Filmed & Edited by Chanelle Tyson
BROADLINES IS ALSO ON...
Spotify
Apple
JOIN THE CONVERSATION...
Instagram
LinkedIn
TikTok
X
Website
Broadlines is a production of The Female Quotient and recorded in Los Angeles, California.
I'm not a shut up and dribble athlete. He's like, Well, do you jump as high as LeBron? I said, No. Do you run as fast as LeBron? I said, no. Then why should I come to the main game? And I said, Well, sir, I run faster and jump higher than you.
SPEAKER_02Welcome to Broadlines, a weekly video podcast by the female quotient, where real headlines meet real conversation. I'm Natalie Lazaraga, journalist and news anchor. And I'm Ray Williams, an entertainment lifestyle and culture journalist.
SPEAKER_03So today we have WNBA star, Olympian, and all-around badass. Hey! Angel McCarthy is with us today on Broadline. So welcome, welcome. Thank you. We are here. I'm just gonna give a little bit more of an introduction to Angel because I want to read all of your credentials. She spent 13 seasons with the WNBA, not just playing basketball, but rewriting what it means to just be an elite female athlete in America. She is a two-time Olympic gold medalist. That is no small feat, obviously, a five-time WNBA All-Star, a two-time scoring champion, a member of the WNBA's 25th anniversary team, and she was the number one overall pick of the WNBA's 20, 2009 actually draft. So that is a resume, but that's just on the court, off the court. Angel has founded McCautri's mission, a nonprofit that has brought youth basketball camps to Ghana. She's revitalized courts in Atlanta, hosted free clinics across the country, and now she is uh on a podcast called Court Vision, where she's one of the most vital voices in women's basketball. And then, of course, your directorial debut is coming soon. So Girl, you're really busy. I can now take a deep, a deep breath after all of that. But yeah, congratulations and on all of that. Thank you. Um, and we really want to get into today just the the nitty-gritty of sport and women in sport. And we know that you grew up playing basketball in Baltimore on the courts near your house with the boys at eight years old. And then you never put it down. But what did playing with the boys that early on teach you about how you show up today? Yeah, well, first, uh Baltimore is not like the wire.
SPEAKER_01Okay, I had to throw that out there. Secondly, um, it was just that you were the only girl. It just wasn't a group of girls out there playing, right? So I was the only girl playing with the guys. But first thing it taught me was I'm not a tomboy. Okay, you don't have to be labeled a tomboy. Girls play sports, get over it, guys. I'm not a tomboy. And then, and then secondly, I think I think it taught both of us something. I taught the guys that to respect, you know, girls, and they started to see how tough I was that I could hang with them, and then they started gaining that understanding and respect, like, wow. And then on my end, um, I it just helped me with my toughness. Like, they were like, All right, if you're gonna play with us, we're gonna treat you like one of us, make you tough. So when I started playing with the girls, I didn't feel a thing. I would get banged to the ground, I get right back up. And so um, just that toughness and grit and them caring and knowing how bad I wanted it. And then when I was around 12 years old, all the guys were like, yo, it's this thing called the WNBA. I'm like, what's that? They're like, it's the NBA but for the girls. I always remember how they said that. MBA but for the girls. And I was like, he's like, go start watching it. And then that was my intro right there at 12 years old.
SPEAKER_03Interesting. So the boys actually pointed you to WNBA and said, Hey, did you know that they're that's so that's so interesting because I think a lot of the time we have this, you know, like ongoing debates all over the internet, and we've definitely had this conversation about um the WNBA and about women's sports versus men's sports and the kinds of competition and who watches and who doesn't. So it's really interesting that the boys were like, Hey, there's also this space.
SPEAKER_01Because it was this big popular thing at the time, um, because you Cheryl Swoops and Dawn Staley, Lisa Leslie, and it was this thing that everybody was introduced to, and we were like, Whoa, and that nobody had ever saw before. So it was really, really big, bad thing. And the thing I didn't notice was from eight to twelve, I didn't notice that there was nothing for me. I had no idea. I just loved playing. And had I gotten older and realized, I would have been like, What do I have to to look forward to? So thank God that that came about around that age. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So when you're you're 12 and you're you see that it's happening, did you then decide like, okay, this is what I want to do? Oh my god.
SPEAKER_01Because it gave me something. I was already tall for my age and I was awkward, shy, insecure. I used to um stuff my feet into smaller shoes because I had big feet, and the kids would make fun of my feet. They was like, You got some big feet. Now you we used to wear Timberland boots because the East Coast Timberland boots was a thing. So when I would wear my, we called them butters. So when I would wear my butters, they were so big and bulky because I had big feet, and I would get make fun of. So I used to just start stuffing my feet in smaller shoes because I was so insecure. But when I saw the Dubben Bay players, they had big feet like me, and they were tall like me, and I I could feel comfortable and have someone to relate to. And I was just in awe of that. And I'm like, oh my God, this is what I'm gonna do. And so um, that's when I knew when I started what so DC, thank God we had a team. DC was the closest team to Baltimore, so we would go up there, drive an hour, and go watch the Mystics.
SPEAKER_00That's such a a cool entrance into like what you wanted to do, especially at just the serendipitous right time of a girl deciding, like, hey, what am I gonna be? Am I gonna hide myself or am I gonna be out there? I think one of the things that we the stats that we brought up here is that a lot of this research shows that like 94% of women who've played sports at any time have a better point in their lives to getting into a C-suite. Like, did you at any point, as you're playing, realize, wait, like this is more than just me playing this sport? There's an opportunity here.
SPEAKER_01I didn't realize that at a young age. I I realized that um as I got older, and that's why I tell the kids now, because really we didn't have anyone coming to tell us at a young age, right? What WMA players they started getting out more later on, but when we just turned 12, there was nobody telling us, hey, you can do this, this, this, you can use this as a scholarship, you know, this will help you get jobs. We didn't know. But now we can tell the kids every day with social media and we do more clinics and camps, like, hey, do you know just playing sports that companies want to hire you just because you play a sport? Yeah, because you know how to work in group settings, you guys know how to figure out adversity, they love that. Just play something, and so that's just the beauty of just getting involved and finding a passion. I just say, just find your passion.
SPEAKER_03By the way, I'm a part of the um Bigfoot crew because I had the same thing when I was 11. My feet were already size 11, and then I had like these big calves. The boys used to moo at me, but what was what was next? Oh, I know where are they? Where are those boys? Yeah, where are they? They can't even talk to me now. Yeah, but but the the good thing is, you know, I grew up around athletes. My mom was an athlete, and I grew up around them, and so I was able to see to see you know good examples, and so I know how important that is. But you know, back to that research, it shows that girls drop out of sports at twice the rate of boys by the time they're 14. And, you know, you you talk about being on that court from eight years old, you know, discovering the WMBA at 12 years old. What happens at this age, do you in your opinion, that causes this huge dropout, especially working with the the young young girls now?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and and it was worse. We have increased the numbers where girls are continuing to play now, but it it was worse back then. But what I think is happening is is number one, the fun is being taken out of it, right? So when girls play sports, they need to know that the one thing I notice between boys and girls, you could just tell a guy, go out there, play, they have little egos and they think they're all vests and all that. But with a girl, you have to constantly give her a pat on the back and let her know she's doing it right. That's what little girls want. They want to know that they're doing it correctly and they're making you proud. And that's what I notice. And when you have coaches who are inexperienced with little girls and women, and most of our coaches are what? Men who may not have the experience to know emotionally what we need as players or athletes, that's the first thing they need is to the constant pat on the back because we lose what coaching is really about. Yeah, coaching is about wins, but at that age, is it really, or is it about helping them develop, giving them an awesome father figure or brother figure that makes them know that playing this sport is awesome and fun and that you're gonna be successful in this? No. What it is is like you're doing this wrong, tighten up. I'm yelling at you all the time, and then their confidence decreases. Sport is supposed to increase the confidence of women and young girls. And we we had gotten to the opposite of that, and that's why we need more great coaches for women in sports to motivate them, to give them confidence, to let them know they're doing it right. Even if they're doing something wrong, it's a learning experience. And we had lost touch of that, and so we need to bring that back that sport is your outlet. Yeah, and when it doesn't become the outlet, it's like, why am I doing this? This is more stress. I'm already stressed in life with trying to figure out who I am as a woman. We we still figuring out I'm about to be 40 and I'm still figuring out who I am as a woman, right? So today, right, ladies? So imagine at that age with puberty, and then you start liking boys, and then so you don't need um a sport or coach to make you feel worse about yeah. We need that to be the opposite, and that's what I have seen.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And then also, you know, it it's even worse the drop-off for lower income girls, yes, um, because they don't have as much access to sports, and those costs have surged 46%. Natalie actually mentioned earlier that like they're always, you know, like all the nieces and nephews, there's always like the what do you what do they call them?
SPEAKER_00Getting in my bank account for that button. It's like donate to this and like you know, so it's clear everyone. We need new stuff every season.
SPEAKER_01And then that's why you see, first of all, I'm jealous that you can do that.
SPEAKER_04I can't remember. This is like a real day. Little shaka. Little.
SPEAKER_01Little. Like, nope. But um, but that's why you see more African American girls play what? What's the one sport that's right there there down the street that they don't have to really pay that much for? Yeah, basketball. That's a basketball court. And so lacrosse gets expensive and tennis gets expensive and golf gets expensive. But then you do see when African American girls or girls of color of any color start playing those sports, they do dominate in swimming and they're really good, but they don't have the access. Yeah, so we need more programs and different things um that can help them get into those different sports because you just never know. You know, who our next throw out a name? What's the girl's name in um uh uh the the I'm gonna go with Simone Biles? Simone Biles or who our next what's the girl in games? Because they know gymnastics is gymnastics to get in. Yeah. What's her name in gymnastics?
SPEAKER_00Um I know who you're talking about.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, who's our next yeah? So the lower income, we have to have more than just a basketball court. That's why the dumbbell is filled with mostly African American women. That's our access. And we're really good at it because that's the sport we play, but we had access to other things.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00No, you see like uh Rodman in in soccer. There's so many great soccer players, but those leagues to play soccer, to play AYSO, to play club soccer, the you it's a fee. It's it costs so much.
SPEAKER_01It's so much that parents can afford. And then you have you know, some of swimming. Swimming, it's expensive to a pool and to you know the and then most of these lower income families are single-parent homes, so it it it is tough. And then what you see happening when a kid does get into those sports, there's some racial issues going on. There's one girl I met who um played lacrosse howard, she was dealing with racial issues, so that has to stop, you know. So there's a few things we need to figure out with that.
SPEAKER_00Let's jump into the WMBA right now because we're seeing this movement, we're seeing it grow faster than any other professional league in sports right now. You have a podcast, Core Vision, you're breaking that all down for us. What do you think there's a conversation when it comes to women's basketball that people are not having and you wish that they were having?
SPEAKER_01I don't like when guys um they come to me and they say, You guys are finally playing now. Excuse me? Let me snap my finger on that. Finally playing now? Have you seen us from the beginning? If the game has not changed, they think we're faster now because they're making more money or more popular, or it's the game has changed, or it's this new best big thing. Have you seen Maya Moore play? Have you seen Simone Gus's play? Lisa Leslie, Don Staley, the game has not changed. Right. You guys are just finally waking up and paying attention. The things we've been preaching all along, thank you. So that's the part that kind of like um I wish people would talk about more about you know how awesome the game was back then. That nothing has really changed. Yeah. It was still fast, it was still athletic, it was still so yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, the the people, the culture is changing for people to take note and look at like, hey, there's some real competition going on. There's it definitely has always been athleticism, or you wouldn't be there. Yeah, and it was the same. Yeah, it's the same.
SPEAKER_01And so it's just more so now that the brands have helped with visibility. Right, exactly. And that's why people are taking note and seeing, like, oh, this is really fun, but it was always fun.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. What's something that you wish someone said while you were coming up that maybe didn't get told to you?
SPEAKER_01Mmm, that is so good. I wish someone told me back then, and I learned this later on in college. Um, if if the game was perfect, it wouldn't be fun. Because I as a kid, I wanted everything to go right, and I used to get this attitude when things didn't go right. And oh, I missed the shot. No, if if it was perfect, it wouldn't be fun. That's what makes it fun that you gotta figure out these challenges throughout the game.
SPEAKER_03We did an episode, we had Allie Riley of uh Angel City FC. Oh, nice. And you know, there were a lot of people in the comments who were just kind of saying these awful things about women's sports when we literally presented facts. You have, you know, your podcast, obviously, you have a presence on social media, you've worked in this for a long time. Have you had to deal with that kind of vile judgment through your career? And was it was it worse when you were playing, or is it worse now that you are speaking?
SPEAKER_01It's a little worse now for social media because they have the direct contact right at you. Well, why I want to know why it's 99.9% men. The only thing that should come out of a man's mouth is uplifting a woman. And it's not. What is going on? Is it an ego thing? Is it that you still want we still want to live in the 50s? What we're doing. I think some of them still want to live in the is it a control issue you want us to dump dim out It's so interesting you say that because you're right.
SPEAKER_00It's like this is a deal. We're not like we're not in I'm not commenting on a bad quarterback. I could I don't I see that you're bad and I don't care. But I just am like, why do you need to comment on the stuff that we're doing?
SPEAKER_01Because we don't really you notice that we don't like if the quarterback has a bad game, we're not only like you suck and you need to like go and go get another job, go get a go be a carpenter. Go into construction. Like they didn't go in the kitchen.
SPEAKER_00It's like you don't go in the kitchen. Oh yeah, oh yeah, like build me a house. That's you're right. Like, we don't have to be a good thing.
SPEAKER_03You guys belong in the kitchen and you I don't want somebody to tell me to go in the kitchen. What is this? How do you how do you handle it, to be honest?
SPEAKER_01Um, sometimes I do clap back every now and then. And I try not to focus on it. I do know how to block most of them out, but every now and then you gotta clap back at once once or twice. Um, I just think and it's always too when it comes to the money, they get really riled up. It's like, oh, women are gonna make more money than me. It's like the comments about the dumb bay. When we send can the girls, their brands are no less than a million dollars, they they deserve it. And they're just like, you guys don't make money, you guys don't get ticket sales. Um, we we are. We're doing something. And so and I had to explain to one guy, I'm like, hey, would you want someone to tell your mom or your sister that they don't deserve the hard work they put in, or and then they have to start thinking about it. It's just like start thinking about it like that. And you wouldn't want nobody to tell your daughter. If this was your daughter, you wouldn't want anyone to say that as well. So you gotta kind of put that in their minds. They don't get it until you make it relate to them.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. In a way, it's weird, but I know it does affect a lot of women and a lot of athletes, um, especially. And I know specifically it's it's athletes of color. And I, you know, I think about um we mentioned Jordan Childs a little bit earlier, like I think about her and just you know, all of the stuff she went through in the Olympics and her medal and just the the backlash that she and a lot of the other gymnasts, you know, of color have received over just everything and how difficult that must be, like, especially for women of color.
SPEAKER_01So leave women alone, leave women alone, especially young kids, like these. Yeah, we were just talking on our pod Raven Johnson, who just signed with Indiana Fever. She's gonna be playing with Caitlin Clark. There was just a little rival there when they played when Caitlin played in Iowa when she was at South Carolina, and all the fans, and she had fans coming at her like to the point where she was gonna quit, like start playing college basketball. And it's like, what are we doing? These are college kids in their their 20s. Guys, have some compassion for kids. Yeah, so it definitely is something that we gotta continue to protect each other. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And I also feel it's a huge responsibility when you are because in college, I I did not play sports in college. I told my mom I was gonna walk on to the University of Miami's team. Their coach was Amy Deem at the time, who was a US national coach, and I was like, No way, I do not love it this much. Um so I partied through college, but I can't like, you know what I mean? Like instead of one alternative, I didn't play D1 small. Just give one. Um, no, but I, you know, I I can't imagine that on top of just I I wouldn't say, and you can speak to this a little bit, not losing the the best four years of your life partying, but you have there's a level of responsibility that you have to have, and a I I would think a little less fun you get to have because you have to be responsible. Is that true?
SPEAKER_01You have to be responsible and you have to carry yourself in a certain way. Um, I think now things are different because the social media wasn't really really there. So now you gotta train girls like how to deal with social media and how to block stuff out. Maybe there's the schools are offering some type of shield or protection. I don't know, but like you know, it it's something that has to be be done for these young girls.
SPEAKER_00The biggest thing right now of WMBA was talking about the CBA, which we just saw a uh matter of weeks ago. The average player salary, 367% more, great progress. So we're looking at things to to simplify it for people when it comes to like a salary cap seven million now per team compared to 1.5 million just in 2025. So that's the the difference you're seeing. But what does it mean though for players right now who are playing? And then what does it mean for those that we just talked about, those college girls that are coming into the league?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it means everything because there was a point where college girls didn't they weren't thinking about pro. That was backwards. They're like, I'm staying here as long as I can because I get more here in NIL, and it's like, no, you're supposed to be excited to come pro and make money as a pro. So the NIL actually kind of put pressure in the league to step up because it's like, how how can you make so much more money in college and you got actual professionals not making nothing? It just didn't make sense. And so actually, we kind of thank NIL for kind of helping the league a little bit. And so it means everything for for these girls. They work so hard, they're mothers. Um, these girls are are wives, um, they they're business women, so and and to play basketball at the same time, to have a a child and then come play a sport, do you know how hard that doesn't get enough recognition? Yeah, it's very hard enough to be a mother without playing a sport and and having your day-to-day job, but to travel every week and to have a baby and to put your body through the I mean, come on. That's just one thing right there. Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00I know this is a step in the right direction, but what do you hope for to see in the future? I mean, this was a big deal, but I'm sure there's more steps and more things that you guys would want.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think we're in the right direction. Obviously, I would love to continue. People might say we're spoiled or asking for too much, but hey, why not continue to see the salaries go up for women and get there? Like five million, ten million, why not? Um, and then I would like to see um more of the legends be involved and and um the brands get involved with the legends who kind of pave that way. And I'm happy that the CBA, what they did for the girls who really fought for what they have now, if you played in the league um over 12 years, they're gonna give you a hundred thousand. Um, below that thirty thousand. So that's good that they're paying homage to to some of the women because these women now and the dumb who played in the dumb B before, they have regular nine to five jobs. Right. Right? And so they deserve a a little piece of the pie, I feel like. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And then you just said it a while ago that you're kind of like it's almost like this attitude of, especially for female athletes, they're told to be grateful in a way for what they have. So it's like, well, you already got this, so you can shut up now. Like I think that's the attitude that there is sometimes. How do you find th the courage to be vocal and to speak up and to say, like, you know, we deserve this and this is what we should have.
SPEAKER_01I think it started off with us women always being taught to we gotta tone ourselves down and we have to be like this and and don't say too much, you know, be grateful for this. I remember one time I I called um this this um outlet, this news outlet, because they said some crazy things about me in the paper. I said, I don't appreciate this. I said, I didn't say this. And his response to me was, Well, you should be grateful we're even covering the WBA. Excuse me? That was the mentality. And it's like, we're not dumbing ourselves down no more. I'm not a uh a shut up and dribble athlete. We use our platforms to speak up. Even um during the time uh 2020, I had came up with the idea to put the phrases on the back of the jersey, put it out there in social. The idea was stolen on the on the NBA side. I call our um WNPA, I'm like, I understand the idea was stolen, but can we get some recognition for bringing it to? So she went and fought for me right away. And they said, hey, Way came up with this to get this done. And so you gotta open your mouth. We we were taught, and that's why I tell the young girls, don't be afraid to open your mouth. If you're having a mental health issue that day, I tell everybody, my team, I have ADD. Sometimes when you write down the plays, it looks like hieroglyphics to me. I need I'm a visual learner. Show me the play first. Don't be afraid to speak up. And and that's the thing. And now that if we did not speak up, would we have a new CBA right now? No. Yeah. If Billie Jane King didn't speak up, would women's tennis have equal pay? No. No, you gotta speak up. So I'm at a bar and sit next to this guy, and we're just watching the game. I said, You I said, I get played in dummy. He was excited at playing in dummy, he's all cool. And I was like, You should come to a dumb game. He's like, Well, do you jump as high as LeBron? I said, No. Do you run as fast as LeBron? I said, No, but then why should I come to a Dummy game? And I said, Well, sir, I run faster and jump higher than you.
SPEAKER_03There is this person. Honestly, and there's this perception of even, you know, men who are interested in sports that the women's side of things is not going to be as competitive. I think that is like that's something that I've noticed across the board. And until they actually watch and lock in and realize that they they genuinely think it's just not as exciting because they think that the elitism of athleticism is a LeBron or a Steph Curry.
SPEAKER_01But why are they comparing us anyway?
SPEAKER_00First of all, they can't jump as high or run as fast as LeBron either.
SPEAKER_01Right. So there's things that we can do that y'all can't do, men. And we don't see here and compare, like, can you carry a baby for nine months? Can you do that? Like, we do some extraordinary things. And so they're missing that side of what we can do with this whole athleticism ego thing that they love. And it's like, are you enjoying the art of what she can do? And that's who they need to start paying attention to. What can she do that's really awesome? Not compare me to LeBron.
SPEAKER_00Wait, so I need to know. So you tell him this.
SPEAKER_01Does he go to the game?
SPEAKER_00So he was like, ah, alright, alright.
SPEAKER_01So of course I didn't keep up with afterwards, but like I feel like I kind of got in his head. Because you're comparing me to an uh such an elite athlete, but when you compare me to you, you have nothing on me. So how dare you? And you're a man. Don't do me.
unknownCome on.
SPEAKER_03That's why we need to do the comments. That's why that's why I'm in the comments sometimes. Because I I think at the end of the day, there's a difference between willful ignorance and you just want to hate, and you're like, and and realizing that this is something that exactly, you know, is completely different. That you're comparing apples to oranges in a way. Yeah. So yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, I would do want to touch on the protections for pregnant players now that we've seen in the CBA. You know, these these women are becoming moms and they're trying to do both and they need stuff in place so that someone's behind them, supporting them. What was it like before? And now how has it changed?
SPEAKER_01I mean, not just even in the WBA, but all over women's sports. Like we know the story of Ellison Felix. She got pregnant, Nike dropped her, and what?
SPEAKER_03Well, she started her own brand and exactly.
SPEAKER_01She started her own brand, but it's like, why is that happening when when a woman gets pregnant? If you know what I'm saying, that should be like a great campaign. That to me, that's a marketing genius right there.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And so it was always this connotation of when women get pregnant, oh, this is such a bad thing, and now just let her go. No, even fighting like just for certain medical benefits for us who are not playing, like if I go to the dentist, I gotta pay out my pocket, like stuff like that. So, all of those things combined, women who are pregnant, our medical benefits after the game, we put our bodies through so much. I've torn my ACL twice playing this game, and I have nothing. So all of that had to change.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I I know that, and as you speak about the medical things too, I know that one of the things for my mom after she stopped running is that she kept getting sick, repeatedly getting sick, getting sick, getting sick. And one of her doctors was finally like, Your body is so used to being in motion and the level of exercise that she was doing, and then she kind of because she kind of stopped working out, um, that he's like, You need to get back into exercise. And when she started exercising again to the level, like instead of running, she started doing dance classes and just like being way more active. Yeah. And she didn't get sick anymore. And I think that's one of the things that, you know, is interesting about transitioning out of the sport that people don't realize. That's that's one of the things, is just the impact that it has on your body, the impact that it has on your mental health when you're done playing. And, you know, I think even the impact, obviously, the biggest one is the fact that your career is now gonna look different. Um, for you, like how was the transition from, and I'm not gonna say regular life, because I feel like once you're an athlete of that level, you don't go back to regular life in a way, but maybe I'm wrong. Um, but what did it look like for you for that transition? And is there any advice that you got or anything that was, you know, helpful for you?
SPEAKER_01I was depressed. I was I have I had been depressed for three years. It was I didn't know who I was, I didn't know my identity. Life was weird because I was I this was something I had done since eight years old, always on the go playing basketball, and it just stopped. And so athletes do need mental health. You know, you see a lot of things happen with athletes after they're done. There's a mental health issue there that it needs to be explored on why we go through this. I had no idea. It felt like death. It felt like somebody had literally died. Like the feeling if a close family member died, it felt like that with not having basketball. And so there is something psychological that goes on through us that I didn't know I would feel like that. I didn't leave the house, I couldn't watch the basketball because it hurt so much. Because literally, obviously, people know my story, I'm still not retired. What happened was I got injured and um I didn't get picked back up to go in, and so and I'm like, my career can't end like this. But I knew, and my parents are like, you gotta get outside, you gotta get out. I knew if I did not get out and start getting active and finding some other kind of creativity that I would deteriorate. And we have seen that in other athletes. There are other athletes who have deteriorated because they couldn't find that next thing. I would encourage athletes, you have to find something that gives you that same feeling as basketball. And the creativity in films gave me that. I got the same feeling. Thank God I had that. That saved me from deteriorating. Because you do go through this thing of like nobody's calling your name no more, nobody's yelling for you, or nobody's asking you to sign autographs, or can't it's kind of like you're getting lost in the abyss. It is really, really tough. So I do encourage athletes who are transitioning to find something, just stay busy finding something that can give you that feeling, and you have to get a therapist. I didn't have a therapist with my injuries or um with um not playing again, and I wish I had done that uh earlier because that would have saved me a lot of depression.
SPEAKER_03Do you think that there are things that you know can be done while athletes are still in sports? So I know for instance, I went to something the other day at Capitol Records and it was an NFL day, and they had a whole bunch of NFL players from all across the league come in and do like almost a career day to learn about music and sports, and they were talking to me about how that was such a close connection between music and sports and some of the things that you learn and just like just even the music in the locker room and how that like informs their opinion of you know the music world and what they talk about and stuff like that. Um and so this was a career day to kind of expose them to careers that they could have during and after. Do you think there needs to be more of that for you know women in professional leagues or anything else that can be done like while you're still in NO therapy would be a good one, obviously.
SPEAKER_01Yes. Um now we have um, you know, sports therapists that wasn't that didn't exist maybe like five years ago. Thank God for that now, because they people are realizing the importance of that. So get that now. You don't have to wait till you're done. I would get that immediately. And yes, there needs to be um more career days because there are a lot of athletes that don't know what they're gonna do after basketball, they have no clue. More career days, more exploring um, you know, what they can get else can get can get into. And we know that um, you know, you know, sports takes a lot of time, but more activations and guys, you guys have millionaire owners who are sitting right there. I wish I would have asked my millionaire owners. One of my owners was a billionaire with a B. She owned the the the New York Stock Exchange in Chicago. Why didn't I ask her questions? Why didn't I know to ask her if I could meet people? I had no idea about networking and all that. It was just I was just a basketball player. And so I would encourage you athletes, get cool with these owners. Learn from them. Ask them, can you shadow with them for a day? Get into their network, you know, and and start to, you know, figure out what you want to do. Don't do not wait. Because you want to be able to get right into something else or do other things while you're playing.
SPEAKER_00It's interesting. My brother played for the NFL and and your story about being done is so relatable. When he was finished, none of us had the skill set to know what to do. And like all of his friends still playing, since he didn't play as long as all they did, he didn't feel like he could talk to them.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00He couldn't watch it. He didn't know, he wasn't prepared for what was going to come to his life. Like the depression is so real. And I think just for you and and having talk about that, like athletes have a different brain, they have a different mentality. And so that used to like affect him a lot because I couldn't relate because I don't have that competitive, like, I don't have that structure that he had that he was so used to. That was another thing was like days were planned, things were done, you went to practice, you did this, you took care of your own. Yes. And so I'm I'm I'm curious to what was the thing that changed that for you that you were like, okay, this has gone too far. I need to make a change.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, because there was no no pre there is no preparation. Now we can start to see, you know, for the future athletes that we need to start preparing and family members need to start understanding this stuff. Um, because my parents, like you said, they did they didn't know none of this stuff either. In my mind, you don't even think about it ending. You're just in this, it's gonna last so long. You you have no idea, no clue. I think that family members need to prepare for this. Um there needs to be discussions. There was never a discussion like, hey, what what happens if it all ends? And nothing. It's just like you're in this dark place, and how do I get out? Who am I? I you don't even know who you are. Um, so there needs to be talks, um, preparation for for family. Um, like you said, more more um we need athletes to come together and create some kind of foundations or things to to help these athletes that they can get into things or someone to talk to who's been through it. Because I would have loved to talk to someone who had yeah, like you say, he didn't have anyone to talk to.
SPEAKER_00No, yeah, he does not have anyone to talk to.
SPEAKER_01That one.
SPEAKER_00And also the fact that nothing else was focused on, like you kind of said, like, he was I to me, I've worked my whole life, I know what I want to do, I've done all these things. And for him, he was like, Wait, what's my other job? What am I good at? He didn't even know what he was good at other than this thing. So I do agree that there has to be these, like, well, we can talk about it, like mentorship of people who are out of the league who can maybe be like, after I was done, here's what I did to discover I like real estate or I like whatever it is, because mentorship, I know you know, is so important.
SPEAKER_01And I think, like you said, too, to go back to having someone to talk to to let you know, like, you're not crazy, it's okay. This is a normal thing that athletes go through. Because you start to feel like I'm a crazy person, th this is diabolical. And so, because I I kinda had wished going through this phase of well, why is nobody picking me back up again? I was one of the top players in the dumb A, and now nobody's even trying to give me a chance. I kinda had wished somebody had put their arm around me and said it's gonna be okay, hey, just come to a workout. Or I w would have wanted a dumb Bay player or or or one of the older ones to say, Angel, how are you? Nobody did, right? And so that is tough. Yeah, and you can't expect that. And people, and it's not nobody's fault. People don't have their own issues they're going through. They don't know you're really maybe going through that, because right, when I come outside, I have to smile and put on the poker face. Yeah. So, but we need to that's why I try to, when I hear of a player get hurt, I reach out right away. Or I just try to check on people because I I kind of know that you just can't go off what it looks like on social. Because everybody comes to me and they like, oh my god, you're doing so many amazing things. You're doing this. But in my mind, I'm like, I don't feel like I'm doing amazing things. I didn't finish my basketball career like I wanted to. I feel like this, I feel like I has been, I feel like nobody really remembers what I've done in my career. But that's where we have to have people who've gone through it, like your brother, and people before, to be able to talk to them and talk. And now I want to be someone who can talk to players and say, How are you doing? It doesn't matter what the social looks like, because we go off that. Oh, they're doing fine. They're they're they're doing their thing, they're making money. No, that does not matter. That does not matter.
SPEAKER_03And I think people don't, you know, it it obviously doesn't last forever. You know, I remember with my mom, she if she didn't make so she did track and field, so you have to make the teams, obviously. You can run on your own, yes, but like in f as far as the Olympic teams and stuff like that, you have to go to trials, you have to actually make the teams. And I remember she told me that if she didn't make the team this time, she was going to retire. And I was, I would have been I think seven at this point. And I remember going to the stadium and I remember watching her run this race and not you had to be one or two, I think, and not making the team. And I remember just for me as her kid, you know, not even someone who had done this sport for since she was 15, 16 years old, how crushing that was. And how how how I felt so disappointed that she, you know, like not in her, but that she didn't get this thing. And like you said, you don't get to sometimes finish the career the way you want. It's interesting because I've never really had a conversation with her on I know a lot of the physical transitions that she had, and I know that mentally she was prepared to walk away if she didn't get on this team, and if she did, it would probably have been the relay team. She had, you know, had kids at that point was like a little bit older for the sport. Yeah. Um, but I never got a chance to really ask her that and talk to her about like what that feels like, you know, having done this since you were 16. And I think a lot of athletes we uh real don't realize that they play these sports. Yeah, we assume that's since they were.
SPEAKER_01But how awesome is that your mom came back to to to run with having kids, and that is amazing.
SPEAKER_03When you talked about the medical aspect of it, when you talk about the you know, the the benefits after and stuff like that, you know, she I was born in September of 1989. So she ran in the 88 Olympics. Oh my god. Got to work, got busy. Yeah, was pregnant in December, had me and was able to get back. Same thing with my brother. She planned us meticulously because she had to. But one of the things well, her too is that she worked the whole time that she was running. So she was a teacher, so she had summers off, so she was able to compete and work at the same time. She was able to negotiate a little bit more leave when she was having her kids, and you know, everybody was like, Well, we have an Olympian that's also a teacher. But I think that's part of why her transition may have been a little bit easier because she had activities that she not activities, but like a career that she had, you know, been building while she was an athlete. But I feel like these days, do you get the luxury to do that if it's a luxury? Like, you know, like to is it all in on sport, or are you able to have the capacity at this point to build a whole nother career? I think she had to.
SPEAKER_01But first I want to say, guys, compare athleticism to that. No comparison.
SPEAKER_00I didn't I just can't imagine being like, I gotta make a lesson plan and also like hydrate or like whatever and take my creatine along the way. Yeah, no, that's crazy.
SPEAKER_01Then when you have a husband, they're like having another kid. We gotta take care of y'all too, guys. And I gotta go bust my butt in this this sport.
SPEAKER_00No, that's so much to balance.
SPEAKER_01No athletes athleticism competes with that. They're not saying that. That is the most amazing thing in to me in women's sports.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Luckily, my dad was happy to, you know, take on the role of like toting me around and he like she trained here in California, so he dragged me along to all of the, you know, we came here while she was training and he took care of me and so it was nice to be.
SPEAKER_01I want to see more of those images too. Like, remember that like how your dad was like taking care of you guys while she's playing? Like that loving basketball image. Remember at the end he's watching the game holding the baby while she's playing? I want to see more of those images of men cheering like their girlfriends or wives on while they're playing their sport and the baby's there or something. To me, we need more of that. Like, that is so amazing. That's true.
SPEAKER_00Let's talk NCAA. Yes. We saw the tournament, a lot of people did. Uh average 9.9 million viewers, making it third most watch. So everybody was looking at UCLA in South Carolina. I know I was, I took my daughter this year, she's not old enough to know what's going on, she just likes to see the ball to a UCLA women's basketball game because that was priority number one for my husband and I. Look and see women playing basketball. People, like we said, visibility is catching on. So, what does this mean? Are you excited for this next generation of women? Is this also there's something in it for me that's a little bit different is like, should they expect this kind of fanfare now? Is this this is this what's happening? This is now what it's gonna look like.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think um I do believe this is what it will look like. I used to sing in interviews 10 years ago that um women's sports is like that evolution chart that you see just constantly growing and growing and growing. And so um we want it to maintain. I think as long as we continue to have the brands um behind us, that is it. It's just like nobody would know a male basketball players if they're not pushed, right? You and you don't go to an NBA game if you don't know who you're watching. And that was the our issue. People were didn't know who they were watching because we didn't have the visibility or the push for people to know who we were. If we continue to get the push, the visibility, people love these women's sports. They love watching Asia Wilson and knowing who these girls are. You just got they just gotta get to know us, that's all. Yeah, that's that's it. It's very simple.
SPEAKER_03What I was happy to see is so I was in Vegas for the weekend, and so of course there's TVs everywhere, just you know, in the casinos, they're all and every last one of them had women's sports across the board. I was like, okay. Yeah. Like this is nice for Vegas. I was like, yeah. So Macatri's mission, um, what is it that you have learned from the kids that you mentor? What have they given to you? And what do you pour back into them?
SPEAKER_01Um, through Macatri's mission, I've learned what real happiness is. Real happiness isn't money or scoring 40 points or driving a Maserati. It's literally pouring into our youth and watching their eyes light up when they see you and they see what you've become and they can see that it's really not far-fetched for me. I really I'm next to it. I can feel it. I can become this if I really want to. And so, even with going to Africa, the girls didn't even believe I was coming. They never had a dubbing bait player there before, and I just had to teach them. It doesn't matter your environment, doesn't matter where you're from. Don't let nobody tell you because you're from here, here, here, that you can't do anything. And um, I think that's what it's given me. I've learned more from the kids and youth than um they give me more. And so that's some of the things that I took away from it.
SPEAKER_03So just to to kind of close us off, you know, you've given your career, your foundation, your voice to building something for the next generation, especially now, which you know we've talked about why that is so necessary. But what do you want the girl that's watching right now who doesn't yet know, like, is this for me? Can I do this? What do you want her specifically to know?
SPEAKER_01I want you to know, just find something. Get in get into something. You don't always tell ki the girls or the kids, um, you don't have to be this two-time Olympic gold medalist, dubbing bay player. There's so much around every sport. You can be a commentator, you can be an agent, you can be a coach, you can go overseas. The NBA, they're hiring more women than they ever had before. And in every sport, there's a whole organization of jobs involved. So just be a part of something. You know what I mean? You can be even like the um social media person, like it's just so much around our games and our sport, and that's what I encourage to just get involved in a community.
SPEAKER_03I think the big thing for me in this conversation, obviously there there was so much, uh, and I feel like every single thing we talked about was a was a learning thing, but I think for me the biggest takeaway is that is it's kind of a life after conversation. Yeah. Um, and I think the transition out, I think we know that you know, sport is not something that you can necessarily do forever in the capacity that maybe you can't play for forever, but that there's so much more that we can do, especially for women in terms of making sure the transition, you know, after sports and continuing to be involved in sports is, you know, absolutely paramount.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And there's this power in numbers. So the more we stick together and support each other, we can just do some amazing things.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think uh this conversation, thank you so much, was so great and so much fun too. Um, I have a a a niece that plays college basketball and she's graduating this year and she doesn't know what she wants to do. And coming from you, it's like what I took away from this for girls out there is like you can stay around the sport, but my gosh, there are so many opportunities other than than playing. Yes, you know, like even that social media thing. I was at a Dodger game the other day, and the social media center is massive as you walk down the hallway. I'm like, first I was like, damn, all these people are at work, but and I'm out here having fun. But I'm like, that's a whole thing. That's a whole thing. The NILs are a whole thing. One of my best my best friend is a sports agent who lives in Baltimore, and she she manages all the guys. I'm like, that's another thing.
SPEAKER_01So it's like photography.
SPEAKER_00It's basically my takeaway is open your scope to this. And if you want to stay in the community, as you said, you definitely can. Just don't be hyper focused on the one thing because again, that that athlete brain is like, oh, I didn't get to do it. That means I didn't accomplish. I didn't I'm not still in the game. Exactly. But you can still contribute to the game that you love and the sport that you love in so many other ways. Yes.
SPEAKER_01Oh, you just dropped the mic.
SPEAKER_00That's it. So thank you. Because I I feel like I owe her a call now and be like, I got it. I know I know what you can do.
SPEAKER_03And even just opening when you talk about opening your scope, I think that's for the men too that you know may have questions about women's sports and you know why they should why they should watch them or whatever their question may be, is just to take a second and take a look at what's happening here, and you will be very pleasant, you might be, you will be very pleasantly surprised that it's maybe not anything like what you thought or what the the narrative is out there about women's sports. Absolutely, particularly WMBA. Thank you so much again, Angel, for being here. Thank you. This was just the best conversation. I love every time we get to have this and we get to to talk sport, if you will, and talk shop. So, yeah.
SPEAKER_01And your podcast is Quick Vision once a week, uh on Tuesdays on uh just women's sports.
SPEAKER_00Awesome. Do you just play this one and then play hers? Or you could go in the verse order. Sounds good to meet awesome. Thank you so much again. Thank you guys.