The Badass Moms Club | Bozoma and Lael Saint John

When was the last time you asked your child (or your parent) what they actually needed from you?

In this candid Mother's Day conversation, our hosts Natalie Lizarraga and Rae Williams sit down with Bozoma Saint John and her daughter Lael to talk about everything they don't show you on TV: how Lael greenlit Boz’s decision to be on the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, why it’s important to send the ladder back down to bring others up, the IVF journey audiences watched unfold on camera, and how this mother-daughter duo built a relationship rooted in trust and negotiated hugs.

Plus, both Boz and Lael answer our rapid-fire questions on grief, strength, intuition, and what they'd tell their younger selves. Happy Mother's Day to every woman raising the next generation of badasses.

EPISODE CREDITS...
Hosted by Natalie Lizarraga and Rae Williams
Directed by Lauren Ames
Executive Produced by Sydney Kramer and Rachel Apirian
Produced by Lauren Ames, Rae Williams, and Natalie Lizarraga
Filmed & Edited by Chanelle Tyson

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Broadlines is a production of The Female Quotient and recorded in Los Angeles, California. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

If I could tell my younger self one thing, what would it be?

SPEAKER_03 0:03

I've always been right.

SPEAKER_01 0:08

John and Lael. I am what you call a Velcro child. I will not leave her alone.

SPEAKER_03 0:12

Zero boundaries! We tell women.

SPEAKER_01 0:14

Oh, you should be humble.

SPEAKER_03 0:16

I'd like to brag on my kid. I'm like, yeah, that's mine!

SPEAKER_02 0:19

Little, you are actually the one who really housewives of Beverly Hills for my.

SPEAKER_03 0:24

People feel like they know me, but they hadn't been inside.

SPEAKER_00 0:27

What do you think now that you've opened the doors? Welcome to Broadlines, a weekly video podcast by the Female Quotient. Where real headlines meet real conversation.

SPEAKER_02 0:37

I'm Natalie Lizaraga, journalist and news anchor. And I'm Ray Williams, an entertainment, lifestyle, and culture journalist. I don't know if you have noticed this, Natalie, but there's somebody that I bring up every single episode to the point where she has asked me why I talk about her so much. Oh, so you so you talk to your mom.

SPEAKER_00 0:55

It's it's my mom.

SPEAKER_02 0:57

She was like, Why do you talk about me all the time? I'm like, girl, because I love you.

SPEAKER_00 1:01

You are excited about today's guest. I am. I know you are a very, very big fan.

SPEAKER_02 1:05

And then we have a bonus today because we also have the daughter of the mother that we're talking about. And that's what makes this conversation so special for our Mother's Day episode. So we have Bozema Saint-Jean and Layelle. So welcome to Broadline. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:18

We're getting a nice little two for one. I know. And I did ask you before we started the show, is this your first podcast together?

SPEAKER_01 1:24

It is. It is our first podcast together.

SPEAKER_00 1:26

I'm just going to be able to do that. We love to be the first.

SPEAKER_02 1:30

So before we jump in, I want to read a little more of some of your accolades, Bose, because we're going to give you every one of the one. We can just get back.

SPEAKER_03 1:37

Everybody relax. So all right.

SPEAKER_02 1:39

The Hall of Fame CMO behind iconic moments at Apple Music, Uber, Endeavor, and Netflix, where she was the company's first black sea level executive. Forbes named her the world's most influential CMO. This is one that I'm jealous of in so many ways, is that Harvard Business School wrote a case study about her. Why was that not a thing when I was in college? Like I would have liked to have studied you. You built a hair brand called Eve by Bose. You mentor the next generation on NBC's On Brand with Jimmy Fallon. And you're currently holding a diamond on the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills.

SPEAKER_03 2:15

By the way, you know, like at Harvard, based on that case study, I ended up teaching some classes there.

SPEAKER_02 2:20

And I'm like, why?

SPEAKER_03 2:21

Can you imagine? Why would we the funny thing is that when um we were writing our the syllabus and I proposed it, they didn't like the name of the class and tried to get me to change it. They said we can't have ass in the name of a course here. And I was like, We very much can have ass in the name of a course. I'm like, I don't understand. This is a, you know, school of higher learning. I think ass is a good word for us to learn about. I think that's the first class I would sign up for.

SPEAKER_02 2:47

It's like one way to do it.

SPEAKER_00 2:48

I'm sure there is a wait list for something like that. Um, I recently lived at Boston for five years, so I right next to Harvard, so I know the lifestyle there and the perchisness that they put to that school, but how did you get them to then agree that ass was going into the curriculum?

SPEAKER_03 3:03

Oh, just because I said, well then I just won't do it. Oh. Sometimes you just gotta stand on the business and know that it's okay if it goes away. Yeah. Because sometimes people be like, ah, well, then sorry, we can't. And then you turn around and you leave. Yeah. Yeah. And that is okay.

SPEAKER_02 3:18

So you you have that Harvard course, your Instagram handle is badassbows. We love that. Like it's on brand. We told Emma Greed in a podcast episode that you did with her on Aspire that excellence is a baseline. Yeah. You've also said that publicly that your mindset has always been that you will win. Not like if or when, but you will win. And that level of self-belief, I think, is genuinely rare. And it's also gotten you some blowback. So where does that belief come from? And how do you what do you say to people when they call it arrogance?

SPEAKER_03 3:49

Well, that's the thing. I think um people are very angry at the audacity of a black woman to believe in herself. Um, the funny thing is that like it goes far beyond just believing yourself, even when you have the receipts to back it up. You know, people get mad at me at my audaciousness of thinking I'm beautiful. You know, they get mad at my audaciousness at thinking that I would I'm able to raise a daughter on my own, even though it was unwilling. You know, it's like that's what happened, and here we are. You know, they they just get very upset about it. And I find it more curious than it is uh damper to how I am. And so even though like I I understand the question of like, you know, well, how how do you just keep going or what do you do? And I'm like, but why wouldn't I? Yeah. It just it doesn't make any sense to me. Their problems with me have nothing to do with me. It's not my business.

SPEAKER_02 4:42

Well, what do you do when people say to dial it back? Because I know that's something that you've heard more than once um throughout your life.

SPEAKER_03 4:49

Well, I've given this analogy on a few occasions, and so I'll do it here, which is that this is what happens, okay? Now we're in California, so you see the sun shining, okay? Uh people look at the sun and they're like, Oh, it's so wonderful, it's beautiful, I love being in it. Oh, it's shining on me. I just want to be outside. And then maybe somebody is like, you know what? I think I want the sun inside of my house. It's so great. So they bring the sun inside of their house. And then they're like, Oh god, this is too bright. This is too hot. You shining too much. Can you just dim it down a little bit? The problem is you can't do that because the sun is the sun. Yeah. The sun was as bright when it was outside, you just brought inside your house, and then you weren't prepared for how brightly it shine. And that's often what happens to me. And like you look at me out there and you're like, Oh, you're so brilliant. It's so amazing. Oh, look at her, she's a badass. And then I come inside of there. And everybody's like, and I'm no different than you saw me outside. You're just like, oh, golly, you know, you're like this 100% of the time. Yeah. And yes, that is true.

SPEAKER_00 5:51

There's a lot of things in culture right now where we tell women, oh, you should be humble when you get to a certain place. Oh, you should be grateful you're here. And we you know that as a working woman, like you you are in a place where you've told us you celebrate your accomplishments. But there's a whole society out there telling your daughter maybe something different. You need to be grateful, you need to be humble. How do you counter that what with is coming in and then what she really should believe?

SPEAKER_03 6:17

Well, okay, so um, even though I curse like a sailor, okay, uh, I am a woman of God. I love the Lord. And um I do firmly believe that I would actually be doing a disservice to all of the blessings God has given me if I were to stay quiet. You know, if I weren't to be loud and proud about it and to be grateful, like so grateful that I'm like, come see what this happened, look at God. Yeah, look at what has happened. And so it's surprising to me when people are like, ooh, you shouldn't talk about that. You shouldn't talk about the win. You shouldn't talk about the accolades, you shouldn't talk about the thing that you got, you shouldn't talk about the next job. Why? First of all, I didn't get it on my own. It definitely was grace and favor. And so I'm gonna talk about that and I'm gonna be proud about it. And I believe that gratitude and that that audaciousness of being able to grab it and say, yes, it's mine, is what has then propelled me even further.

SPEAKER_00 7:17

That's interesting because I feel like when you're and I'll ask you this question, when you're a teenager and you're a teenage girl, things could feel shaky, even though you might know in your core that they're they're right or wrong, but how do you lean on your mom when there's a lot of stuff from society? Instagram, TikTok, all these things sending other messages to you.

SPEAKER_01 7:38

I mean, it's so funny. I every time someone meets my mom, they're always like, oh my gosh, how is it like having her as your mom? Like, I just all the advice, like, oh my gosh, like I couldn't even imagine. It's so true. Ask her how many times a day I go over there, I stomp into her bathroom and while interrupt whatever she's doing, and I'm just whatever I am doing. Whatever.

SPEAKER_03 7:58

Father, help us.

SPEAKER_01 8:00

There are boundaries. I have none. Yeah, zero boundaries. There are none. Um, and I'll ask her. I'll ask her for opinions, I'll ask her for advice, I'll ask her for honestly, like whatever. I I lean on her to be my shining star, to be the one to guide me through everything. Um, and she does a great job doing so. I mean, I it you know, high school is a struggle. Um, sometimes it can be really difficult. Um, but I definitely re rely on her and her advice to teach me how to do things while also taking her advice and interpreting it into what will help me so that I can also be independent in my actions.

SPEAKER_03 8:40

Yes, that's right. The independence is very important.

SPEAKER_02 8:43

We're gonna start a club called the Badass Mom's Club. We can both be in it. That's the same way. My mom has not brushed her teeth in peace as long as I'm in the house in the whole 36 years I've been alive. Like even when I'm home for Christmas, like brushing her teeth, she's like, please. And I'm like, no. Like, what do you think about this? Um, so I I absolutely love that. One thing that I know that that we have in common is you know, being the only a lot in a lot of rooms. Um, I'm from Jamaica, so I came here when I was 14 to a boarding school. Uh that I was one of four black kids in my class. So starting at that age, I've been the only. And I know that's something that you've experienced too. What do you wish that you knew? And what would you tell, you know, younger women that are the only? And Layla, I don't know if you're the only in some of your rooms right now as well, but what would you tell other women that are the only at this point to help them navigate that?

SPEAKER_03 9:34

Yeah, yeah. Well, I don't know who originated the quote, but I remember Kamala Hara saying it, right? Which is that like you may be the first, you may be one of few, but you shouldn't be the last.

SPEAKER_04 9:43

Right.

SPEAKER_03 9:44

You know, and I really do take that to heart. It's like you've got to send the ladder back down to let other people in. And it is different when you're in high school because you don't have control over those situations. Um, and also it's like when you start out in the corporate space or whatever industry you're in, sometimes you don't have enough power to do that either. However, I do always say that look, you gotta have power from wherever you sit in the organization, you know. So you may not be a hiring manager, so you may not be able to change it to, you know, bring the next person in, but nothing stops you from advocating to the HR department, you know, about your friends who could use a job at the company you're at, especially your women of color friends. You know? Um, because I'm like, well, just because you're not hiring doesn't mean that that person over in the corner office isn't hiring. And how are they gonna know if their circle isn't wide enough to encompass some of the people you know? So you should be over there advocating for your friends. You should be over there advocating for people maybe you've worked with in different capacity that you think could really contribute to your organization. Don't be the only one. You know, advocate to get somebody else up in there, and more times than not, it'll actually work. It'll actually work. It will. I know that it feels impossible because it's like, oh, these structures and these systems, and yes, I agree, but we made it through. You know, I mean, some of us have like some real wounds to show. Um, but you will make it through. And so what you have to do is begin advocating. Also, you have to get good at practicing that. Because just because you climb the ladder doesn't mean it gets any easier. You know, it's like when I yeah, because when I was the head of global marketing for Apple Music and iTunes, this is a true story, uh, which I've also told publicly before, that I uh looked around, and of course, like Apple Music was, you know, the tip of the iceberg for pop culture and how we're trying to move culture into streaming, right? Very, very early days. And I felt like, you know, look, the algorithm is not enough. Like we need tastemakers, we need people who understand what's happening on the ground and who can like feel the spirits in the air. Uh, and nobody does that better than women of color. That's just this is a fact. Please don't argue. Okay, argue with your mom. In fact, if you want to argue on this Mother's Day, argue with your mom about it. Um, and I uh started hiring exclusively women of color. And then one day HR called me and said, you know, we realize that uh there's a lot of interesting going on here today. Um, should we give you additional resumes or what's happening here? And I was just like, no, these people are qualified. Is there something wrong with it? Like, are they doing a poor job? Have I mismanaged it? And they and they couldn't answer the question. And so then I turned and I said, Well, look, like we know that there's a problem in tech. Yeah, we know that. And so if you're coming to tell me this, did you tell homeboy down the hallway that? You go over there and look at his track record of who he's hired? You certainly didn't give him that because by the way, if he needs some resumes, I got them. So I can send them over there. And so for me, it's like, look, the the rise in your power doesn't keep you from feeling afraid to send the ladder back down or to expand the diversity in the room. It just gets harder. So you gotta start practicing early.

SPEAKER_00 13:06

It is interesting to hear you say that because you would think getting to the top of your field, maybe those fears would go away, but they're still very much present.

SPEAKER_03 13:15

Yeah, the spotlight is just brighter. You know, by the time you start climbing, it's like, look, more people see you and more people have opinions about everything you do.

SPEAKER_02 13:25

But you're still the sun. Yeah, girl.

SPEAKER_00 13:30

Your memoir is called The Urgent Life, which I think is so interesting because you know, the story there is that you felt this urgency to not stop, even though there was immense tragedy that was happening around you. When you live your life day to day, do you still have that sense of urgency, let's say, on a Tuesday? Oh, just absolutely on a regular day. And how Lael, I want to ask you too, do you feel that?

SPEAKER_03 13:54

Yeah, I mean, the easy qu the easy answer is yes, I still feel the urgency. Now, uh, the thing is that I I think there needs to be a little bit of clarification about what urgency means, right? Because I think a lot of times people feel like that's just like some sort of like adrenaline-filled like movement and you can't rest and can't relax. Urgency is not that for me. It is more intention than it is about speed. And so I am constantly thinking about what is the thing that I want to do, and I am urgent about that. Okay, and I don't let anybody sway me from uh getting that. And so to me, it's like, look, I can be urgent about any goal. It could take me 12 years to get there, but you best believe nobody's gonna sidetrack me so that it takes me 15. You know what I mean? Yeah, and so that for me is what is urgent about my life. Like I know the things I want to do, I know I don't want to waste time, you know. I don't want, I don't want my days to go and just feel like nothing has happened, you know? And I think also, you know, what you alluded to from my book, um Liel's dad, my husband, died 12 years ago. Um, and I knew very well when people came up to me in the receiving line at his funeral and they said, you know, we're so sorry he died so young. Um I knew they were right, and at the same time, I was like, oh man, like he didn't get a chance to do half of the things he wanted to do. You know, and that was part of my sorrow. That was part of my grief. Wasn't just our loss, but his loss.

SPEAKER_04 15:26

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:27

You know, and so as I thought about it, and even in over the years, and even when I was writing my book, um, and I found the epitaph, which I which is by Diana Ackerman, and I'll paraphrase it. She says, Um, I don't want to get to the end of my life and just have lived the length of it. I want to have lived the width of it. Wow, that's hard. And that is what changed my relationship with urgency. Yeah. Because I'm like, look, I I don't know when I'm gonna go. None of us do. None of us do, yeah. But I'll tell you something right now. When I do go, they're gonna be like, God damn, did you see how she lived?

SPEAKER_04 16:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:02

You see that girl, oh my god. That's she lived. That's the girl. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 16:06

Right there on the tombstone. That's exactly right. God damn. God damn.

SPEAKER_03 16:10

That's my matter of fact, yes, everybody take note. They should say it's goddamn.

unknown 16:14

That's what you want.

SPEAKER_01 16:15

I think for me, it's harder because I don't know what I want to do. I mean, if you ask me next week, my answer will be different than what I give you today. I which is a girl's extremely fair. I mean, no clue. Um, so I feel like it's harder to have that one thing that you want to do and go to that. But I mean, I think for me, I have taken my mom's advice and I've taken that fuel that she's given me. I know what I want to do, as she was saying, um, and I go to that. I mean, it's been hard for me, I feel like, um, sometimes since my mom is so accomplished. Um, I feel pressure. I give myself, I put pressure on myself to achieve, but I know that achieving what I want to achieve and doing what I want to do will ultimately give me that same sense of pride and same sense of accomplishment as my mom has, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 17:08

That makes perfect sense to me. And girl, I know you're feeling my mom is a four-time Olympiad. Girl. So yeah. And if I'm running, you need to be running too. I am running for a funeral cannot. So I know that I know the feeling of looking at a mom and just seeing how you know dazzling she is, and she's always getting some other award. And she's, you know, and then my mom had a whole career while she was running. So she was teaching and she's doing all these things. She's doing her PhD right now. We are doing her PhD right now. So I know what that feeling is like, but I will tell you, like, not that I'm I'm giving the advice here, but just a little bit, I will tell you, you in you just download that like automatically. Like, I don't even think she had to try to give it to me. You just download that and it just comes out of you at like the rarest moments. And it's so much fun because you're just like, oh shit, I'm just like her. It's like, and then you love that. But yeah, you know, as you're living this urgent life, by the way, you can give any of the advice you want.

SPEAKER_03 18:01

Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's so good.

SPEAKER_00 18:04

It is relatable to be like, oh shit, I'm just like her.

SPEAKER_02 18:06

And then some days you're like, oh shit, I am just like you're gonna say something one day, and it's like, and it's something that annoys you, but like even the way my mom curses, I'm like, because she doesn't really curse, she says like these really random, like, oh Rasta George. And I'm like, that's not even a anyway. So you've you know, you've been honest that being highly ambitious and and having this urgent life has has cost you something. So sometimes it's basketball games or PTA meetings or whatever it is, and that Layle has to communicate clearly when she needs you present. Uh I I can already tell the level of trust that you guys have between each other. Um, but how did you kind of build that arrangement where you know she's telling you when she needs you? And Layle, is there a time that you've had to say to mom, like, you know, I need you here, and also a time where she's just shown up without you having to say anything when you maybe thought you had to.

SPEAKER_01 19:02

Yeah, I like that question. Um, I definitely think, I mean, I have one of my school has this tradition um where you essentially get ringed. So it's like you pass the seniors or anyone who's graduated from my school will pass on the school pride essentially, and will ring them. And I told my mom that it was important to me that she go and that she supports me and that she's sitting there in the audience, and as I'm crossing the stage, I can look out and wave to her. Um, even do a twirl. I don't know, maybe something. I also got that from her. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 19:35

She does a twirl. I love that.

unknown 19:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:38

Um, yeah, but I think she she shows up to for me in so many ways. I mean, even little ways, like she will um come to my volleyball games the other day. She came to my track meet. Um, and although she was busy and she was going in between things, she still made time for me and still made sure to come and support, um, which meant a lot to me. I think she, although she is very busy, she does always try, even in the little ways. It's the little things that truly do count.

SPEAKER_00 20:05

I have a I have a question, a follow-up question for you, Bose. What kind of track meet volleyball, whatever else you play? What kind of mom are you sports about? Are you screaming? That's what we want to know.

SPEAKER_03 20:15

Are you like we already know what it is? She's screaming in there. I'm super competitive. Yeah, and also I like to brag on my kid. And so it's like, look, when she is out here and she whatever she does, I'm like, yeah, that's mine right there. Oh, and I and you know I'm on Instagram. So I'm even taking videos. Oh my god. I showed the video of her on the other day from the track when she wasn't even running. Okay, and I was like, she stands. I love the way she stands. Perfect. Just do that.

SPEAKER_02 20:47

Lail, are you in there? Are you like this or are you like, I see your girl?

SPEAKER_01 20:52

It depends on the day. It depends on the day. Sometimes we're 16. So exactly at the end of the day. Sometimes I'm like, oh no. I please, I just messed that up. I need I please, I I can't, I can't do all that. And some days I'm like, yes, thank you. Do cheer me on, yes.

SPEAKER_00 21:08

Or some days they're like, um that I asked her to come to this one. Exactly. I'm the one that's saying at all. She's here now.

SPEAKER_03 21:16

But you know, I do think it's really important in this journey of parenthood, you know, motherhood, um, that I feel like every generation changes the way that we mother, you know? And you take the lessons that were good in your own, you know, being mothered, and you adapt it to how you want to mother. You know, um, for me, my my parents were together throughout my childhood and adolescence. Uh, they certainly played their very strict African roles. So everybody had their thing they were supposed to do. So mommy did this and daddy did that. Um, and when Peter died, it was so shocking to me because, well, for a number of reasons, but also. Just as a parent. You know, there was nobody else to depend on. There was nobody else to ask for their opinion if Layelle should do this or do that, or like, okay, she came home and she said this. Oh my God, how do I respond? There was nobody to do that with. And so a lot of times I was just over here, like, you know, biting on my fingernails, hoping that I'm making the right decision. And in terms of like the managing of my schedule and time, um, one of the very conscious decisions I made when she was four was that I was going to give her enough responsibility and enough respect to ask her her opinion on my schedule. You know? Meaning that I trusted that even at four, she could discern between what she really wanted me to show up for and what she didn't need. Yeah. You know? Because the thing is that, like, again, I think sometimes as as mothers, we take on everything. You look at that school schedule and you just put everything on your calendar. And then you and then we don't have time. Then we're tired and we're burnt out. And so I'm like, hey, little girl. When do you need me? She knows already. I call her little girl all the time. Little girl. She does. Matter of fact, as we were getting dressed coming here, I was like, hey little girl, you ready?

SPEAKER_00 23:10

You know, let's go. Is that a like that's I do the same thing? She is currently right now a little girl, but I don't think that'll ever stop.

SPEAKER_03 23:17

Well, I mean, but she knows it, it's it's affectionate.

SPEAKER_01 23:20

Well, it's like instead of saying my full name, I really known in trouble when she says little girl. That's how I actually have to do that. So the rock is like, oh yeah, what I did.

SPEAKER_00 23:30

Or it's a serious conversation. Yeah, my daughter knows unfortunately ma'am. Yeah. Because she goes, ma'am, and I'm like, yes, because we call you ma'am. Right.

SPEAKER_03 23:38

Exactly. Yeah. But I do think it's important, you know, to um trust your kids enough to be able to input into how you manage your time. And the conversation we had at that time many years ago, um, was that she was going to be able to discern, you know, when she really needed me someplace and not. I mean, just the other day, there was an event at the school. I have it on my calendar, but then I had a conflict with a dinner I needed to attend. And I was like, okay, like how, like, do you do you actually need me there? Like, what what is it that you need me to do? You know? And then she let me off the hook. You know what I mean? Then she was like, it's all right, don't come. You know? And I can trust that. I can trust that she's going to tell me the truth. If she really needs me there, then I will do whatever it takes to make sure I can go to that and go to that, or go to that and skip that. Uh, but I trust her.

SPEAKER_00 24:30

It's it's so special the the autonomy and the respect that you gave her as a person, as a pro four-year-old or not, a person. Yes. Tell me what you need and I will listen. And I think a lot of parents tell their kids what they need instead of trying to receive what they need. So if you write the parenting book, I will be here, I will read it front and back, because I just told you it's it's alarming to me that kids grew up so fast.

SPEAKER_04 24:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:54

And that teenagers now have a whole different ballgame to deal with than we did as teenagers. So it's it's it's really nice to know that that age she was able to voice for herself without being told how she should feel.

SPEAKER_02 25:06

Yeah, yeah. Continuing on the the mother-daughter relationship, Lael, you are actually the one who greenlit Real Housewives of Beverly Hills for mom, which I love that for you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 25:18

Thank you from all the fans out there. Thank you. We appreciate you. My gift.

SPEAKER_02 25:22

And you you told her like this is gonna be good for you. You're gonna change the way that people look at women like you. And it's it's very rare in a way for a teenager to give their mother permission to do something, or you know, for the mother to seek a teenager's permission. We're not used to a society like that. What made you so sure that she needed to do this? And then Bose, what was it like? What was it like having your 15-year-old tell you, like, you need to do this? Right.

SPEAKER_01 25:47

Well, okay, I'll answer first. Um, it was definitely, I think for me, I knew that she needed to do it because she was so excited about it. I mean, she came to me and she was had a bright smile on her face. I knew that it was gonna make her happy. I mean, that's my whole my whole job. I'm here to, you know, make sure that she's happy too, as much as she's here to make sure I'm happy. Um, and so I'm truly just supporting her dream. So when she was telling me like her ideas and like the things that she wants to do with the show, I was like, great, I love it for you. You should do it. You know, do that. Um, yeah, and so I'm always here to green light her ideas, um, especially the ones that she ex is she's excited about and the ones that she feels confident about. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:29

Yeah, and for me, I felt like you know, I've very famously said I don't seek other people's opinions or you know, advice on my life. Um, because oftentimes people will give you input based on their own fears and limitations. Even though they love you, even though they want the best for you, they're still gonna tell you things because they're like, Oh, I don't want you to get hurt, you know? And there were so many people, I can't even begin to tell you, who are you know in my corner, who are cheering for me, who are like, oh, sis, don't do this. You know, like you have a Hall of Fame career, you're well respected. Don't get out on TV and fight with these women, you know? And I was like, Oh, but is that what I have to do? Because maybe there's also other aspects of this that will be beneficial. Um, but the reason why I asked Lael her permission was because I knew that look, this is different from me going into an office outside. You know, this is now bringing that son inside.

SPEAKER_02 27:24

Right.

SPEAKER_03 27:24

You know, that's bringing the cameras into uh what is actually our very private home life. Yeah, you know, it's like people feel like they know me because I'm public about my, you know, my career and the challenges there and even, you know, our grief. So people think they know. Um, but they hadn't been inside. They didn't see the way I mother, they don't see the way Lael is on a daily basis, they don't know what my relationship is like. They don't they don't know most things like that. And so I wanted to make sure that she was as comfortable with the idea of opening up our doors to the world uh as I was. Of course, everybody's gonna have an opinion too. Yeah, and if by the way, and if she said no, it would have been a no.

SPEAKER_00 28:04

Yeah. What do you think now that you've opened the doors?

unknown 28:09

Ooh.

SPEAKER_02 28:14

I mean, we thank you for it.

SPEAKER_01 28:15

We're like, thank you. Come at the bottom.

SPEAKER_00 28:17

But I imagine it must be so different now.

SPEAKER_01 28:20

It definitely is it's different than I imagined, but for sure. Um it's definitely rocky sometimes, but um no, I think I'm still I'm still glad. I think overall it still um makes her happy, and so I'm still cheering her on and still supporting her always. Um yeah, it's definitely very different though. I think having a everyone having a perspective um onto into our life or having um being able to have true opinions on what we do is very interesting. Like people come up to me at school and it's like, oh, oh my gosh, like the inside of your house is so pretty. Well, no, that's fair.

SPEAKER_03 28:58

Right, right, right. Or even the most recent one where I your birthday present.

SPEAKER_01 29:03

Oh, my yes.

SPEAKER_03 29:04

Girl. My car. I'm sure you got a lot. What? Yeah people had so many very strange opinions about whether or not I could gift her a car. Well, not just any car, but you know what I'm saying. Yeah, you got a good birthday gift. She got a good birthday gift, but she's a great kid. Yeah, yeah. And she also presented for it and did a great job of like convincing me and making sure that her arguments were sound. You know, yeah, she made a great pitch, but she does that for everything, you know, Christmas presents, her birthday trips, all of that stuff. She presents, she has great defense, and again, she's been doing that since she was little. And so for me, I was like, no, the girl deserves it. She did a great job.

SPEAKER_00 29:43

I do have a question for you because that is your mom. And so you see some of these women are so nice. And do you because I would feel some type of way if people were coming after my mom. I know Ray, this is we would be talking to Ray behind glass at this point. She would be joining us somewhere else. She would be joining us live from a different place. But I I wonder, like, to not just like to be vulnerable, but like sometimes it has to feel I I have no other word for it, but like icky and not and not right sometimes. So how do you deal with like you welcomed this in and you're you know you're young and this is all new, and then like, whoa, I don't like how they how they did that to her or portrayed her in some in a way.

SPEAKER_01 30:25

Yeah. I think I know who my mom is, and that's most important for me because I know who she is, and no matter how the internet will make her look or how they'll portray her or how they'll talk about her, I know who she is, and I hope I know her heart. Um, I think also maintaining conversation with my mom and talking to her about all these things, also being like, hey, I will fight this woman. I don't care that she is 50 something. I really don't care. Please.

SPEAKER_00 30:51

That is real. But that you're you gave me chills when you say you know who she is and you know her. So no matter what people say, you know the real your mom. That's really touching, actually. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 31:01

Two scenes from the show. One that uh our showrunner and I texted each other immediately when we saw it, and that's the engagement, of course, and your part in it.

SPEAKER_04 31:09

We were like, we were like, we literally that was a live scene that happened.

SPEAKER_02 31:14

And then also, Bose, your IVF journey, which is, you know, like I've been through six rounds of egg freezing. It's traumatic, to say the least. And then, you know, to do that on TV, to watch your mom go through this. Um, what did it feel like for you to share that journey so so publicly, even though you're already public? This is, I think, more public than you'd ever been. And then as a woman growing up, to watch your mom, you know, kind of go into this new chapter and try this thing and you know, all of the different emotions, including the the grief and the disappointment that comes with it, but then also to see her have someone by her side, you know, after all of these years to do that. How did that feel for both of you?

SPEAKER_03 31:53

There's so much to unpack in that. There's so many layers. Um because first, yes, it has been the two of us for a very long time. And I have been very intentional on who comes into our life, you know, and so it hasn't um been easy, you know, for me to decide that, like, okay, this person now is coming in, you know, and is in our space and in our home and you know, in our safe space, especially as it relates to her. Um, also, because I had very difficult pregnancies, um, I had sort of packed away the idea that I would have more children, aside from the fact that Laelle told me when she was three she don't want no siblings.

unknown 32:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 32:37

Okay. And she stuck, she stuck beside that for all these years.

unknown 32:41

And I did.

SPEAKER_03 32:41

And yes, and I did. She literally, you know, like most toddlers are like, I want to let her. First of all, let me just let me just go off track for one second. Because she came home from preschool, and one of her little classmates had had a new baby brother or sister. Leo was horrified. She came home, she was like, this is so she literally sat me down. She's like, um, I don't want one of those. You're not planning. Oh my god, little Sadie got a little brother. She was like, mm-mm, no, don't you? No, I was not here for it. No, she was not here for it at all. So I knew that also, even though she's not in charge of my womb, but I knew that she wasn't necessarily a fan of the idea. Um, but I'd also had very traumatic pregnancies, and so I wasn't, you know, thinking that that's the way I would go until I met Keely. And in our relationship, and you know, just going through the motions of falling in love and deciding to commit to each other, um, he's the one that gave me the optimism, you know, to think that that dream could be unearthed. By the way, again, very vulnerably, I'll share that I had been very afraid, you know, to think about that possibility. You know, not just of like falling in love again or getting married again, but just all of it. You know, like who dares to dream of that? You know, the disappointment is too much. Um but in getting to know him, in having him as a part of our family, and thinking about expanding it, uh, the idea was easier. I felt braver. I felt more optimistic about it. And Lael was very encouraging because actually it was one of the, I think, more the deeper conversations we had on camera. Um, which by the way, we hadn't even had the conversation and we we had it like, I think for the first time on camera, like that we talked about it. Uh, and I asked her, you know, about what she felt about me going through this IVF journey. Um, and she said that you know, she hopes that I I've been a great mother to her, and she hopes that somebody else could also experience that. And it was just girl. I was doing girl, okay. I I was out here like blinking fast, like, oh my thank you, you know. But I I think it was the combination of Keely's optimism and his love and his support, Lael's enthusiasm and her love and support that has given me the courage, you know, to move forward in it.

SPEAKER_00 35:10

Have you ever been around a young baby before? You might change your time, right?

SPEAKER_02 35:14

You might double back on that.

SPEAKER_00 35:15

You might change your time around 2 to 3 a.m.

SPEAKER_01 35:17

in the morning. Yes, exactly. I do babysit sometimes, but you know, I'll keep that in mind.

SPEAKER_04 35:23

Yeah, that's somebody else's house. Those are someone else's house. Exactly. You keep them back.

SPEAKER_01 35:29

I think that adding to what my mom said, um, that's a good part about reality TV. It's definitely opened up a lot of conversations I don't think we would have had outside of that opportunity, outside of being on TV. I think we have a lot, we have a lot of real conversations that even though we will continue outside of the cameras, we're started because of them. Um and I do think it is it is also really interesting to watch Mr. Keeley help you through everything because I've never seen you be with um any romantic partner like that ever. Um and it's really it's really beautiful to watch actually watch you two be so in love and so happy and you know you take care of each other. It's very cute to watch.

SPEAKER_02 36:12

Isn't the best feeling? Like the best feeling when they find somebody again. My parents are divorced, and you know, when my mom met my stepdad, they actually got engaged after some six months. Oh and she just came, she came to visit me at school. I was in college, and she just put her hand out. And I'm like, ma'am, what are you talking about? But isn't it like how does that how does that feel to just you know just live in that and have that, you know, just in in your life as well?

SPEAKER_01 36:36

Yeah, I think he's great in my life too. I mean, he comes to all my school events, he'll always support, he'll drive down from San Diego just to come to any random thing. He came to a school cookout once just because he just comes to everything. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 36:55

We're matching, they were matching. And he and he I was traveling and he sent me like pictures of himself and his outfit. He was like, Okay, this is what I'm wearing. You think it's okay? And then he sent me a picture of her and said, Okay, this is what she's wearing. And I was like, Are you matching?

SPEAKER_01 37:08

It's like he's so cute. He came into my room um and he was like, What are you wearing? And I showed him what I was wearing. I just thought he was, you know, like wanted to know, I don't know. Um, and he was like, Okay, well, I'm gonna wear this color and this color. Does that match with your outfit? Can I you want me to change the top, the bow, or the bottoms? I was like, I want these shoes, what about these shoes? I was like, I like those, that works, yes.

SPEAKER_02 37:29

That's amazing. All right, so this is for both of you. So for each of you, just fill in the the blank after the sentence. Okay. Um so the thing that nobody tells you about grief is it's lonely.

SPEAKER_01 37:45

How it hits you unexpectedly.

SPEAKER_00 37:47

That's very good, and that is very true. It kind of can just drop on you in what do you think you're doing. Okay. Um, the best thing my mother ever taught me is the best thing.

SPEAKER_03 37:59

Um to be proud to be African. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:05

To be assertive. I love that. I knew I was going to be okay when I felt it in my spirit. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:16

My intuition told me.

SPEAKER_00 38:20

If I could tell my younger self one thing, what would it be?

SPEAKER_03 38:24

I've always been right.

unknown 38:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 38:27

So good girl. Okay, yeah. Always.

SPEAKER_00 38:30

No matter what other people say.

SPEAKER_03 38:31

No, they didn't know what they were talking about.

SPEAKER_01 38:34

I think you'll figure it out.

SPEAKER_02 38:40

People think being a strong woman means blank, but it really means blank.

SPEAKER_03 38:45

People think being a strong woman means being immovable, but it actually is being flexible.

SPEAKER_00 38:54

Can you elaborate on that just a little bit?

SPEAKER_03 38:55

Yeah. Just meaning, like, I I love analogies, so I just use analogies. Like, you know, if you cook spaghetti before, right? If like you are so stiff that you're thinking that, okay, I'm never gonna move from this position, all of that, you snap and break under pressure. If you cook spaghetti and it is nice and loose, it's like you could throw it against the the wall, you can like pull at it a little bit, and it's still going to be its same shape. And so I think the strength is actually in being nimble versus being rod straight.

SPEAKER_02 39:27

Yeah. We might write a book based on this podcast.

SPEAKER_01 39:31

That's a good one.

SPEAKER_02 39:32

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 39:33

Thank you. Oh, that's a hard one. I might say ditto. Yeah, yeah. You're allowed to.

SPEAKER_00 39:41

Yeah. The thing that looks like a setback but was actually a setup is that's a hard one. Yeah, that's a hard one for me to say.

SPEAKER_03 39:51

Yeah. Because I don't I don't consider setbacks.

SPEAKER_00 39:54

Oh. I love how your brain works.

SPEAKER_03 39:57

Yeah, like I really don't. That is incredible. That's why I was like really trying to like roll through the Rolodex, like, okay, what's a setback? Where's it been a setback? And I'm like, I can't think of one. Because that's the problem, is that I think other people would look at something in my life and say, oh, that's a setback or that's a failure. But I just don't consider them that way. You know, everything has felt like the stepping stone to the next thing. Yeah. Maybe in a different direction. But I always feel forward momentum.

SPEAKER_02 40:24

Detour, but not moving backwards.

SPEAKER_03 40:26

No.

SPEAKER_02 40:27

Have you had any a setback that you thought might be a setup instead?

SPEAKER_01 40:32

I think following what my mom said, but a little different, is I don't think I've had a big failure. I don't think I've, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:38

You better tell them.

SPEAKER_01 40:39

I don't think I failed at anything yet. Good. Not yet. Ever.

SPEAKER_03 40:44

Yes. Yes, Apple Me tree. Alright.

SPEAKER_02 40:47

And then the last one is my love language with my daughter is, and my love language with my mom is. What's y'all's love language?

SPEAKER_03 40:56

Oh, what is it? There's so many of them. I have one. Okay, you go.

SPEAKER_01 41:00

Quality time. Oh. I love being around her. Oh, that is so cute.

SPEAKER_03 41:04

She loves hugs. 16. She loves hugs. Should we talk about it?

SPEAKER_01 41:08

I am what you call a Velcro child. I will not leave her alone. I love that. I will. Yes. Would you like to share our hugs? Huh? Would you like to start a show about our hugs?

SPEAKER_03 41:18

No, I don't want to show them our hugs.

SPEAKER_01 41:21

Because I'll be the wait. I was saying, tell what were you saying? Wait, what were you saying? I was saying that you were gonna tell them about our hugs. Oh, yes, yes. That's what I was gonna say.

SPEAKER_03 41:30

Oh, yeah. But then I was like, oh, should we show them our hugs? And then I was like, no, we shouldn't do that.

SPEAKER_01 41:34

Maybe not show them.

SPEAKER_03 41:34

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 41:36

I'm not very curious.

SPEAKER_00 41:42

Right, right, right. What would you say your love language is?

SPEAKER_03 41:45

Um, probably acts of service. Layelle is very good at, you know, delivering things at the right time. That's great. She gave me a gift once of like a box of was it 50 reasons? 50 reasons why why you love me or I'm a good mom, something like that. And so I can like pick them out every once in a while when I feel like you know.

SPEAKER_00 42:06

If anyone is looking for a last-minute gift idea, you also like to receive that. There you go.

SPEAKER_03 42:12

Okay, so the hug. You would like to share a hug story. Well, here's the thing is that I am not a hugger, per se. You know, I'd like a quick hug. You know, it's like I see people, I don't mind coming in and being, oh, you know, when I came in today, gave everybody a hug, but it's quick. And Lyelle is a lingering hugger.

SPEAKER_01 42:32

I am.

SPEAKER_03 42:33

And so we just have to negotiate the amount of time that's in the hug.

SPEAKER_01 42:37

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 42:38

So that she doesn't feel shunned and I don't feel smooshed.

SPEAKER_01 42:41

Smushed.

SPEAKER_03 42:41

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 42:42

Yes. So every hug is essentially me giving her a hug, and then she will pat me on the back and I'll be like, no, more. Then she'll be like, okay, two more seconds. And I'll be like, okay.

SPEAKER_00 42:53

Every hug is a negotiation. Yes, ultimate skill to learn early on, I would think. Uh you guys, thank you so much for sharing so much with us. We really, really appreciate it. It was really eye-opening and really refreshing too. Because as a mother of a daughter, I'm always anxious, but yeah, it feels like you've got to figure it out. So I'm maybe on speaking.

SPEAKER_03 43:13

Oh, you're gonna, yeah, you're gonna figure it out. This is this is great.

SPEAKER_02 43:16

And as the president of the Badass Moms Club, hey, no members of anyone else wants to join. It is so refreshing, I think, to hear of a relationship and and just see a relationship that is in a universe that can be so toxic sometimes that is not susceptible to you know the outside criticism because what you guys have built is obviously so strong. So thank you guys for being on Broadlines today. I love it. Thank you. And Mother's Day to everybody for Mother's Day. Happy Mother's Day to all the moms out there. Shout out to Kathy. I'm mentioning you in every episode still, so shout out to Kathy. We love it, Kathy. Thanks for tuning in to this week's episode of Broadlines.

SPEAKER_00 44:00

Production of a female quotient filmed in Los Angeles.

SPEAKER_02 44:02

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