Broadlines
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Broadlines
Stop saying sorry | Keltie Knight
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Stop apologizing for wanting more. Keltie Knight built a three-time Emmy-winning career being "good" and "perfect" and nearly lost herself doing it. On this week's episode of Broadlines, hosts Rae Williams and Natalie Lizarraga sit down with the New York Times bestselling author and Lady Gang co-creator to talk about The F*ck Them Theory and why the most powerful thing you can do for your career is stop caring who dislikes you.
From the $200K salary gap she uncovered and went after anyway, to why the "unbothered" era is a trap keeping women small, to how she completely rewired the way she negotiates, asks for money, and shows up without the apology at the end. Stay for the moment she breaks down exactly how she handled equal pay negotiations and lost the job anyway and why it was still the best thing that ever happened to her.
This one will change how you walk into every room.
Follow Keltie Knight: @Keltie
EPISODE CREDITS...
Hosted by Rae Williams and Natalie Lizarraga
Directed by Sydney Kramer
Executive Produced by Sydney Kramer and Rachel Apirian
Produced by Rae Williams and Natalie Lizarraga
Filmed & Edited by Chanelle Tyson
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Broadlines is a production of The Female Quotient and recorded in Los Angeles, California.
I'm gonna teach you all to manipulate the world, to get the most money, get the most fame, to get with the most happiness, to get the most out of everything, and do it without putting the sorry at the end.
SPEAKER_02How many times a day do you think you say, sorry, no worries, happy to help? Maybe a hundred thousand. So you're saying it a lot.
SPEAKER_00And I think all women kinda do.
SPEAKER_02You are not wrong. Women apologize more than men. But it's not because they're doing anything actually wrong. It's just we've been raised to lower the threshold for what we consider offensive behavior. Today our guests wrote the book on saying, nope, not anymore. Three-time Emmy winner, New York Times best-selling author, e-host, co-creator of Lady Gang, Kelty Knight is here with us today. And her book is the opposite of being gentler, being quieter, and being nicer in a self-help kind of way.
SPEAKER_00So it's called the Fuck Them Theory. And it's self-help for people who are done at being the bigger person. So it's a part memoir, part manifesto, and a permission slip to fully speak up for yourself and be loud and be on the record without the apology tour. Welcome to Broadlines, Kelti.
SPEAKER_01Thank you, ladies, so much for having me. I'm such big fans of both of you. And this is a real treat. Kelty and I go way, way back, too far back to even.
SPEAKER_02And we were saying sorry even more.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Can you say sorry while we're in time with the community?
SPEAKER_02Yes, I love it. Oh, you know, I'm so sorry. First thing we want to talk about is what exactly is the fuck them theory and how was it born?
SPEAKER_01Okay. So, man. Uh you know, this is where I have to say, sorry, I'm not sure how to talk about the no. Uh I have lived my life uh chasing this big dream. And when I look back at my career and I look back at everything I've done, the overarching theme since I was a young girl was like to be good and to be perfect. And I grew up wanting to be good and perfect. And I thought, oh, if I'm good and I'm perfect and I work hard and I do everything right, then all of my dreams will come true. And unfortunately, it does work. It works really, really well. You can work your butt off and be yes, a yes man to everyone, and you might get some success. But it left me feeling so burnt out, resentful, angry, and unhappy. And in like a state of chaos where I was like, wait, I got everything I wanted. I'm supposed to be happy. I'm still not happy. And so the book was born from me doing a lot of deep work on myself, sort of having a mental breakdown that involved like some illegal GLP ones, some prescription pills, a lot of alcohol, puking on a Chanel shoe, having my assistant have to like get me out into the tub when I was covered in barf. Like it was a really bad, ugly moment. And I was like, what am I doing? Like, what am I doing here? And then I thought, well, what if I just started being who I want to be and chasing those dreams, but doing it in a way where I wasn't constantly apologizing for my ruthlessness, for speaking up for myself, for asking for more money, not being sorry when I'm not late. Like, do you know what I mean? And I just realized that if I don't start acting authentically, I will combust. And so that is what the book was born under. I have always called myself a little bit of an evil genius where people are like, oh no, Kelsey, like, she really knows how to manipulate the world. But I always did it with a sorry after. And now I'm just sitting here being like, I'm gonna teach you all to manipulate the world, to get the most money, get the most fame, to get with the most happiness, to get the most out of everything, and do it without putting the sorry at the end.
SPEAKER_02It's like the lol at the end of the text. You know what I mean? Yeah. I can't let them.
SPEAKER_01I cannot let them anymore. Like, I can't let you underestimate you. I can't let you not pick me. Like, if you don't pick me, you're screwed. You made the wrong choice. And you need to know that.
SPEAKER_00But you also are very clear that the fuck them theory is not about being unbothered necessarily. It's actually about being extremely bothered, which I I'm bothered, so I like that, and actually doing something with it. And you know, unbothered has kind of been the new thing. Like, like everybody's like, oh, I'm unbothered. Like she's so unbothered, like I aspire to be as unbothered as her. Um, why has that been such a cultural trap for women?
SPEAKER_01It's like I think we all look at like the Hailey Bieber, and I do think she's very bothered, by the way. But we look at the Hailey Bieber and we're like, we just need to gloss up our skin, wear our best black dress, and drink our matcha latte and put our skinny sunglasses on and not care. And I I think that we are being so inauthentic with that. I don't, I've never met someone unbothered. Like, I don't know why that's the pivot that we're trying to be. I think that it's okay to be affected and deeply affected. It's okay to be Sierra Miller and like calling out your ex. You know what I mean? Like, and your best friend. Like they screwed you over. You should be as loud and as vocal for as long as you need to be. I just feel like nothing changes unless you call it out. And maybe it's that I'm getting older. Like when I was younger, I was so scared of speaking up. I was so scared of appearing to be upset by the thing that upset me. And now I don't care because I have nothing to lose. Yeah. Like, and also I still have everything to lose. So like maybe I should I I'm just doing it. I'm it's an experiment. I'm doing it for all of you. Talk to me in a year. If I have lost all of my jobs, we will recourse this entire interview and I will take back all of this advice.
SPEAKER_02I think there's something to be said about being younger and not wanting to speak up, but I also think like now, as we get older, like sometimes I'll speak up and then I'll like have some shame behind that.
SPEAKER_01What is that?
SPEAKER_02I don't know. I'm asking you.
SPEAKER_01I think that we we know, like our truest self knows, hey, you deserve this race. Hey, you deserve someone who's going to be nice to you, who's gonna love you and also like you. Hey, you deserve to not be in the mess of this family bullshit that you are. Like you deserve to say your piece and get out. But then we're trained. Like we know our truest self is to call it out, yeah, and then instantly we are taught that we're supposed to feel bad about it. And I think the thesis of this book is to just sit in that, sit in the uncomfortable, sit in the unpeaceful. Like it is okay. Like, yes, and you know what I mean? Say it with your chest and then wait for the response. I think that we've been taught to be afraid of the truth, the truth of ourselves, and the truth of what other people think of us. When I gave myself permission to be disliked, it literally changed my whole life. You don't have to like me. And it you why is that so revolutionary? Like we go around our lives, we want everyone to like us and to think we're nice and to think we're the best and the prettiest and whatever. If you let go of that and you're like, it's so great to do this podcast with you. When I leave, if you guys are like, she was nuts open. I don't care. Like, I'm fine. It doesn't, I don't have the having the courage to be disliked is so important.
SPEAKER_02I think having the courage is actually great for my next question because you write about in your book about Adele canceling her Vegas residency right before wasn't good enough for she felt to be shown. Simone Biles withdrawing from the Olympics because she wanted to protect her mental health. That is having courage, because I'm sure there's a lot of people who told both of them, probably not, probably shouldn't do either of those things. Why do those moments resonate with you?
SPEAKER_01As a journalist in Hollywood, I have looked up to the beautiful, the outside beauty of women in general for so long, and we've celebrated them, right? We're like, oh, Nicole Kidman at the Metgala, what a beautiful Valentino design, and she's so beautiful. And when I was working on this book and researching these amazing women who have fought back and had the courage to be disliked, I was like, wow, I've really done a disservice in my work because I haven't celebrated this type of beauty in women as much as I could have. It was so external. It was so like, oh, they're a power couple. Who are they dating? Where the wedding photos, the baby, you know. And when I started looking at this, I was like, God, it must have been crazy. Two days before Adele opens her Vegas residency, it's sold out. Her fans have already flown to Vegas.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01She knows in her gut that she's gonna get killed for this. And she did. I mean, the internet was so horrible, but she knew it wasn't ready. And like the courage to her team to lose that money, to piss off everyone, to even piss off her own fan base to do what she knew was right in her soul. Whoa. Simone Biles, that she is America's gymnast. Like, we, the piece of the nation depended on her going and winning the gold at the Olympics for her to pull out was like you're disappointing an entire nation, an entire world.
SPEAKER_02Just imagine the pressure.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Oh my god. And I I just loved giving those examples. And I really tried throughout the fuck them theory to give examples of people in the public eye who have really done this to celebrate them and to remind you, like, oh yeah, that that would have been a crazy, that would have been a crazy moment to pull out on that, you know?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And then the funny thing is is that we still love Adele and we still love Simone Bowles. My therapist says this to me all the time when I'm like caught in my people-pleasing loop. She's like, and and I don't do it, and she's like, and what happened? And I'm like, well, nothing. And she's like, you survive, and I'm like, mm-hmm, and people are fine, and the world is still turning. And I'm like, funny how that works. So I think it it is something to learn, but it's so hard to do. And I think you you write that you don't celebrate the win, you brace for the fallout. And so many high-achieving women do this. What does bracing for the fallout even look like in your real life? And how are you working to undo that wiring?
SPEAKER_01God, you know, I wrote this book and now I have to really teach it. And I have to be like, sometimes I'm not great at it. Um, so I I think that uh bracing for the impact is I have this mantra that I'll share with you that I have on post-it in like five different places in my life, and it is I am safe, I am healthy, I am loved. And I I hate being woo-woo and being like, it's all gonna be okay, but that mantra has brought me a lot of calmness because no matter what happens, no matter who hates me, no matter what I lose, no matter what I win, no matter what I gain, no matter who likes, and I get, you know, some great headline that I was best dressless, like none of it actually matters. At the end of the day, like, am I safe? Like, am I safe in my life? Am I in danger? No. Am I healthy? Health has been such a journey for me. Like, I am healthy. I woke up this morning, I was able, am I loved? My husband loves me, my parents love me, like I am okay, like no matter what. And so that helps me brace for the fallout, and everything's fallout. And I realize that in my 20s and in my early career, something horrible would happen to me. I get fired, I lose my job, I whatever. I was like, this is the end. It's the end. I give up, it's it's over for me. My lesson in this book is like, life is long, careers are long, relationships and love are long, families are long. You have time to figure it out or not figure it out. Tell them to fuck off and get out, you know? But there's time to figure it out, and nothing is that dramatic, nothing is that horrible. And the worst thing that can happen to you will often happen. I had a situation where I was at a job and I found out a male co-worker of mine was making, um, doing the same job, same position, same title, uh, like $200,000 more than me. And I went that year, I was negotiating my contract, and I said, Hey, I want to make what this person's making. I deserve this. This is my exclusives, these are the days I worked, these are the hours I worked. And they really fought me on it. And eventually I was so brave. I didn't worry about them hating me. I went and I got that raise and I made that money for an entire year until they fired me for budget cuts, the next contract. So I say that lesson because you can be like FM theory, like, I don't care who likes me, I'm gonna go for it, I'm gonna demand what I deserve. But you also have to be ready for the fallout. But the greatest thing that ever happened to me was losing that job. Like that, but in the moment, I'm I get the call, I'm pulled over to the side of the road or I'm hyperventilating. Who am I without this job, without this paycheck? I'm freaking out. I should have never asked for more. I should have never made them mad at me, but like I should have just been okay with making less. Like it was the best thing that ever happened to me, but it was terrifying. But I'm okay.
SPEAKER_02We're okay, guys. I cannot believe the discrepancy in salary that's that's I'm still stuck on that. Like 200k.
SPEAKER_01I'm like, it's wild. And and this is why I'm like, and there's an entire chapter in the book about money where I'm like, we have got to stop talking, we have got to start as women talking about money with each other. Because what I did is I literally, the person had left that year, and I was like, hey, by the way, what were you like making at the job very casually? Got the info, and then I was like, I would have never known. Yeah. The whole thing about being secret. And I have this really cool experience in my life now as a podcaster. I'm in a podcast mastermind with like some of the biggest podcasters in the game. Like, I think there's like 18 women right now. And all we do all day on WhatsApp is talk about our deals. All we do is say, hey, I'm getting an editor, I'm paying them this much. What do you guys think? Hey, I just got a call from this brand, such and such. We're gonna do six episodes. What are you guys thinking? Like, all we do is share information, and it is the most powerful thing I've ever been involved in in my life.
SPEAKER_02Isn't it crazy that something like that is the most powerful thing I've ever been? Because the transparency to know, like hiring brand deals, whatever it is, you're like, Am I getting bamboozled? Because especially like us, like something new, they're like, we can get them for this. We can uh and women add that to the whole list, and they're like, we can just throw them as much money. But when someone else knows, yes, and the group is like, no, this is what we got, then you're like, Whoa, I can come back with confidence to kind of counter that. But if women don't talk about it, all of us lose money.
SPEAKER_01A hundred thousand percent. And it sucks. It yeah, it sucks, it's wild. Um, but again, it goes back to having the courage to be disliked. Like, I'm not going to let them decide what I'm worth. I'm gonna demand what I'm worth, and I have to be okay with like if that works in my favor on this deal, it may absolutely bam like ruin the next one. Yeah, and that's okay because over the length of your life, the time you have, you will have more success. You know what I mean? Yeah, but there's also this thing where I feel like the world makes women feel so replaceable. And I've just made this decision that like you can replace me, good luck to you. You know what I mean? Like, I'm absolutely replaceable. You can get someone for half the price, but you're gonna get half the Kelti. Yeah, Timu Kelty. If you want Timu Kelty, you can have her. And like, but also there's other people that are more expensive or less expensive that are better than me. Like, I know that too. But why would I let you discount me?
SPEAKER_00And then the flip side of it too is that if you don't ask for what you want, because you could be sitting there, if you know that someone is making $200,000 and you don't ask for it, then you sit there the whole time and you're like, damn, someone else is doing this job and getting this, and I'm doing and then you just feel salty. So it's like those are your kind of two options. Like you're sitting there feeling bad about yourself. Why am I not worth this much? How come I can't get that? So I would I mean, I in my opinion, like listening to everything you've said, I'd rather take the risk sometimes too.
SPEAKER_01And this happens to everyone. I literally just had to coach my husband through asking for a title raise, like at his job, and he's a huge executive. Like, I I was like, the this is like we as a humanity, we are not good at asking for what we need, except if it's like at air one and we're already so I mean like how can we buy, be so picky about the spirulina that's in our $20 Hayley Beaver smoothies, but we're like not good at asking for what we need to live and succeed, you know?
SPEAKER_02One of the things I like that you talk about in the book is like a lot of women don't even dare admit a lot of this stuff. Things from like taking meds or plastic surgery, body comparisons, like when it comes to wanting to improve our looks, or in some cases for maybe this side of the room, trying to hold on to them. Yeah, we just want them to last us. Yeah. Uh, what do you wish women would stop being shamed for?
SPEAKER_01First of all, life is really hard. And if you want to take the easy way out, whatever that means to you in whatever you're doing, whether it's the shot, whether it's the antidepressants, whether it's the sleeping pills, like anyone who's been on a diet or is like, oh, I'm gonna do the fitness routine, like that's a full-time job. Eating salads for me is a full-time job because it's not my natural inclination. I want to eat crappy food that that's who I am inside. An ice cream cake is my dream, like McDonald's breakfast. Thank you, is my meal. Like I've realized that we get this shame cycle of like taking the easy way out. So you're like, oh, she looks great, but you know, she's doing the shot. Or, oh, you know, um, she's you know, she's so calm, but you know, Xanax or like whatever. And I want to let everyone know that I did all of the things at one time, just as like a test for all of you out there. So I GLP'd, I uh gabapapentined, I Xanaxed, I sleeping pilled, I did it all at one time, and I just needed an easy way out. Like I needed to put on my life vest, and my life vest was all the things that you're not supposed to do. Now it backfired for me. But so don't do that. But what the what I learned through that process was like, we're so desperate for like a quick fix, we're so desperate to feel better. And what happens is when people do do it the responsible way, maybe they get the shot or they go on an antidepressant. Then the shame of like, oh, you're doing better, but it's because you did the thing, then like there's even more hatred. So like you're damned if you do, you're damned if you don't. My goal for this book is saying, let's all do what we need to do to make our lives as easy as possible, and let's hold ourselves to accountable to do it in a responsible way.
SPEAKER_02I think that you're right. The one thing that happens is that people are like, you should do this, and then you do, and they're like, Oh, she's doing that. And it's like, why are we whispering about it? Right. And it was like, I mean, there's one thing, the different conversation of doing it responsibly, but let's just say you are you're doing the shop or like you're taking antidepressants. None of these things are like people don't do them. A lot of people do that, a lot of people do that. A lot of people talk about that. And that's the same thing with money. A lot of people want help to manage it, but they don't talk about it. So we've only moved slightly the needle with the money thing, and maybe we can move the needle with like we all want to self-preserve.
SPEAKER_01I think we should be like living, like living our lives in anything we're doing with the confidence of like a Chris Jenner facelift. Like, do you know what I mean? It's like if you want to do the shot, if you want to do your filler, if you want to do whatever drug you're gonna do, and like that's the thing for you, just own it. And then the way the the public was like, go Chris Jenner, like that's what I want on both sides of it. You know what I mean? I want the confidence of like you get to choose for you, and when you announce it to the world, the answer is she looks fucking great. Yeah. You know what I mean? Because that's not what happens. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And then on the flip side too, if you choose to not do it and you choose to say everything. I was gonna say her. You go outside without your makeup and you still look great and everyone's still clapping for you. Like, I would I wouldn't. I love that too.
SPEAKER_01Either way, but it's like, I don't know. I felt so much shame because I was doing all of these things in secret, and I just wonder what it would have been like to have lived the last 25 years in Hollywood and not had to have be so pulled together and perfect and like make it look effortless. Yeah, it's a lot of fucking effort. I grew up, uh, my brother has bipolar two and agoraphobia. So I've grown up in psych wards with him, and he's you know, someone that is heavily medicated. And what I've realized about medication in general is that it gets such a bad rap. People are like, oh, you know, if you were healthy, you wouldn't need any of these things. The truth is, is that our brains are full of microplastics and stress, and we don't know. Like, there's all kinds of ways to get better. And the interesting thing about brains in general is that they're always changing. I ended up going for an ADHD test, and I was like, oh my god, I can't have another thing. Like, I'm you know what I mean. I just had my uterus removed, like, I got this, I get this. Like, I don't want like another title, and there's so much shame in being like, but what I found out after I was tested off the charts, got the on the medicine, I literally cried the first time I took um I Adderall is what I take. There's lots of different drugs for it, but like the first time I took it, I literally cried because I was like, wait, have people been living their entire lives with brains this calm? Like it was like what do you mean I'm not thinking about Janet Jackson and her uh Super Bowl, Justin Timberlake and the color purple and like music playing in your head? I mean, it was like I was like, wait, I can just write an email, like it was wild. And so I do think there's like a real beautiful thing with medication. Um but I will say that I think as women, our bodies change, right? Perimenopause, menopause, all these things. We have to have the strength to be our own advocate. Because if you are if I'm left to my own devices and I go to a doctor and say, I'm feeling this, this, this, this, they'll prescribe. Like, unfortunately, that's the world we live in in America. They'll be like, You can't sleep, here's this. You can't eat, this is this, you know, and you'll end up like I did, which is taking too many medicines, going and having a glass of wine and bombing, you know. Um, so I think there's a nuance there with mental health and medication, but I am a big proponent of medication. I don't know if like a green juice is the answer. Like sometimes you just need a pill. Yeah. I hope that this is sponsored.
SPEAKER_00You also write about being told your whole life to chill. Yeah. And it's not trying so hard. But when did it become cool for us not to care? This whole thing of like she's such a pick-me girl.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I mean, I know that's a little d but like uh this whole thing of like effort it's effortless beauty, and she just is so effortless in her life. Like, no, bitch. I work my ass off. I don't chill. I'm gonna follow up in 24 hours. If you don't have the answers, you're not working on the timeline of a successful person. Like, I know I have no work-life balance, and that's fine. For people that do, that's okay too. But like, I don't like being villainized because I like to work hard and I'm passionate about what I do and I'm loud about what I do, and I want to do what I'm going to do to the greatest of my ability. Like, I think people get jealous and they're like, oh, well, when I see you doing something and I'm not doing it, it makes me feel like I'm not, I should be doing more. You should be doing more. If you are at all looking at me, being like, God, I should do more, then there's something in your gut that wants something bigger for your life. If you look at me and you're like, she's great, but like I am so happy I get to watch Dutton Ranch on the couch tonight and like eat my popcorn, you're not gonna feel that way. You know? We're jealous of the things we wish we could be. I really need people to stop telling me to chill.
SPEAKER_02When did it become cool not to care? And I to me, it's like if I don't care, I'm not productive. Like, what am I even doing? I don't know. I've got to do it. Why am I here if I don't give a shit?
SPEAKER_01It is an endless loop in my mind, but I think the truth is that I'm just gonna keep trying hard and the rest of you can all F off. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02I have like a pit in my stomach thinking of not being prepared for work. The anxiety I already get of like, what if I don't know this? And I can't imagine walking to a space, a professional setting where I don't know the max amount of I need to know to approach.
SPEAKER_01Imagine if I went to Dr. Diamond to get my facelift and he was like, I think I know what I'm gonna do to you today. I don't know. I know enough. I'm just gonna wing it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. It's I think if we actually gave people permission to care and we made it okay to care again, people would actually care. Hey guys, caring is cool. Caring is careful.
SPEAKER_01Okay, I had an intern once and I was going to interview Flowrida. What's up, Flowrida? Anyway, sorry. So I was like, hey, I'm super busy. Can you go and do some pre-research for me? I need to know like everything about him, what's going on, the streams, like all this stuff. Four hours leave. I come back. This is the answer. We have no information. It was just like so hard because when you Google Flowrider, just like stuff about Florida comes up. That's that's it. And I was like, I'm gonna really hurt your feelings right now. Like, I'm gonna really hurt your feelings. Like, I I I am so sick of that.
SPEAKER_02The desire to not have children in the book you write sometimes made you feel like something was wrong with you. Yeah. And now we're in 2026 and women are still being told that their worth is tied to motherhood. Yeah. So what's the fuck them theory take on not having kids?
SPEAKER_01Well, first of all, I think that we are seeing a massive exodus of people deciding to have children. Um, you know, maybe not I I do see like the statistics and stuff that people are like our next generation is very much like it's it's hard out there. I don't know if I I can barely do this. Um for a long time I hid it and I lied. And so I wanted to be palatable palatable to people. So I'd be like, we're trying. We weren't because I was basically told, like, no one will get you if you're not a mother. Like, no one's gonna relate to you. You'll never get a job on the Today Show because, like, oh my god, they're not gonna know what to do with you. Your life's not hard. You slept in on Saturday. It's only in the past few years I had uh a health issue, I had to have a hysterectomy, and that was like kind of the end of the road for sure. And people were like, they'd come up to me after and be like, Don't worry, you can adopt. And I was like, no, I'm and it finally gave me the power to be like, I don't want to. Like, I don't want to. I'm good. For me, I knew from a very young age, like, I'm good to end this here. However, I do get sad about it. Like, I I think that people are like, oh, the childless, you know, people are on TikTok, they're like, here's what I did in a day in my child-free life. I don't feel that way about it. I I feel sad. It it really does make me very sad. I often think about like my husband and how much I love him and how much I would love to like make a little us, but you don't get everything you want in life.
SPEAKER_00You know, at some point in all of our careers, um, and I think just in this whole conversation, our lives in general, we are going to be faced with criticism. How do you deal with that constructive criticism at work and not take it personally?
SPEAKER_01When I was a Radio City Rocket, um, after every show, and sometimes we would do five shows a day, the dance captain would come around with a yellow Lego pad, whether you had a good show or bad show, and give you notes. And I mean it was notes between like your finger was like this and it needs to be like this. Like the it was like so minutia, and this was my job. Um, and it didn't matter rain, shine, Thanksgiving, Christmas, you were getting notes. And I looked at that and it really set me up for work being like, I love a note, I love to take a note, I love to grow from a note, I love to give a note. Because if we're not talking and like communicating, I think that when you don't see anything in someone, you stop giving and criticizing them. Like, I think sometimes criticism and being when your boss is hard on you or the person at work is like, this is not good enough. It's because they know that you have greatness in you. So I always look as like when the Rockets knew they were gonna fire someone, they stopped giving them notes because they're like, You are a lost cause. But when someone is invested in making you better, I find to that to be the ultimate like pat on the back. So I love a note, and I always say, make mistakes, but make better mistakes tomorrow. So like you're allowed to fuck up over and over again. Just don't ever do the same fuck up. You know, that's like the secret. So to me at work, I love getting a note, I love receiving a note, and I think you just have to get really open to it and know that it's not personal. Um, and take everything you can. Like, even if you're like, this is my dingwa boss who doesn't know anything, is telling me that this is the wrong whatever it is. Like, allow yourself the smartness to distill it yourself. Be like, is this something I should take to heart, or can I just throw this in the trash? Because sometimes our first reaction is to go, they don't like me, they hate me, they're wrong, I'm great. And the answer is maybe more nuanced that you can take the note, it's gonna make you more powerful. I remember when I was starting in my career, um, you know, I got a lot of flack because I'm like a show girl. Like I'm wearing a full leopard print outfit, which is like very normal now, but like I've always been that girl. I wanted to wear the most insane dress, the hair clips, the blah blah blah. And I tell a story about the book too, like where they were like, no one's gonna take you seriously unless you dress like an adult. And like I took the note. I dressed like an adult for like 10 years until I got my co-host position at E, and then I reverted back to my natural self because now I was in a power position, and I was like, I'm gonna dress like a goddamn mirror ball, like I'm a to Taylor Swift on the Air Story every day at E. I would get on set and Justin Sylvester would be like, What are you, where are you going? And I was like, he's wearing jeans and a shirt, and I'm like in a full, you know, but like sometimes you just have to take the note, and that sucks and it's hard, but that's the truth.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And then on the social media side and the personal side of it, you have to really decide. I have been driven crazy by the notes of that. But in the workspace, I think hit the note.
SPEAKER_02Sometimes notes they they're not all created equal, right? So there's notes from someone who is your boss who cares. Yes, and then there's the comment section. How do you separate yourself and knowing what is of value or is what is just pure criticism?
SPEAKER_01I think again, you have to distill, like I've been given so many really thoughtful, like people will slide in my DMs, they're like, hey, I love you, I gotta tell you this rubbed me the wrong way, or you know, this or this. And like when it comes from a place, even if it's a stranger in the comment section, if you will, and someone has given you like their time in a thoughtful manner, I'm like, this can be explored. You know, when someone's on YouTube being like, this bitch be cray, you know, like I mean, that's you know, people are like, I remember my the comment I got on the YouTuber was like, I can't believe this woman's on TV, she has butthole for eyes. And I was like, Yeah, I have tiny brown eyes, they're right here. It's this I it's my face, I can't change it. But it's like that's the kind of stuff that you have to, you know.
SPEAKER_00I think my way to discern sometimes, you know, if the comments are worth listening to is if someone comes to your defense in the comment. And I was looking at a co-worker of mine, uh, or a former co-worker of mine, and some lady said some nasty thing about like her outfit and her this and her that. And then I looked at the amount of people that came in and they were like, She dresses like gold every single day, like, what are you talking about? And I was like, if she reads these comments, she's gonna see that this is a nasty one and not think to myself, like, was that a bad, you know, like do I dress terribly or was this one outfit off? And I think you can look at the people in your life that are good and the people that do support you and what they say to, you know, the the the comments to know which ones are worth kind of listening to versus which ones are just people being nasty on the internet, which people love to do. Which they love to do.
SPEAKER_01There's also that that famous Brene Brown quote where she goes, Um, I think I quoted this in the book as well, where she's like, if you're not in the arena getting your ass kicked, like I don't care. Right. I'm I'm I believe that, but I also think it's like it's not that you don't have to care. Like, I'm I I tell a story in the book of like when I was doing one of my first red carpets lives, and Andy Cohen like came for me basically on Twitter or TikTok. Is it no, it was um sorry, it was Instagram. And he was like, Who is this girl? She's terrible. And like I really thought, oh my god, like I got all these messages, and I was like, Andy Cohen knows who I am, oh my god, I made it. And then it was like this terrible note, and it sucked. And I was like, God damn it, I want you to think I'm the best and the prettiest. And that he didn't, it devastated me. But at the same time, this is someone who's in the arena getting their ass kicked. This is a public person who hosts live TV for a living. They know what they're talking about. And he was right at his critiques. Like, I grew a lot from that. Now, Janet from Minnesota. I'm not sure. She's never been on TV a day in her life. Yeah. You've never done four hours of live T with TV with someone talking or someone talking to you behind the camera, a co-host that you're trying to read their mind, a script, a prompter that's broken. Like, you don't know what that's like. And so, Janet, I'm not interested. Respectfully, I'm not interested in your feedback at this time.
SPEAKER_02I think we will stay on this topic real quick because you're you just told a story that was great, but your clapback to you still said it was constructive, but you can't just sit in it, right? No. You say to clap back creatively. We'll let you finish the second end of that, but how can you do that in a professional way?
SPEAKER_01Okay, so in my story with Andy Cohen, I sent him a bag of dicks. I love this. Um, a bag of gummy dicks. Now, full disclosure, I was filming a TV show for E at the time, and our executive producers are very close to Andy. And so there was like a little bit of a let's do something ha ha ha for TV, you know, and we did it and we had his assistant film it, and it was like a whole thing. But it was really funny, and he was like, I love it. So have you ever seen like a politician when they take something that the other opposing party and then they're in their debate and they'll say, Natalie will say that I'm ga. And then they're like, listicle, listical, listicle of like proving themselves wrong. I think that's how we do it. Whether you do that on social media or you do that in your work environment, it's like taking the thing that someone said was so bad about you and then turning it into your superpower. Um, so them saying, Oh, she dresses like blah blah blah, or this was not done on time, or you know, Dorit, this is a great example. Dorit Klemsley Kemsley, right now on Real Housewives, has had this season of Housewives where she's late for everything. She's two hours late for the private jet, and people are pissed. They're like, whatever. So she has this book coming out, and on her book poster of like the times that she's showing up at the bookstore, it says 4 p.m. DST, Doreet Standard Time. Like she's like, I see you, and I'm gonna use this in my own power to like sell more books or make more people talk about my tour. So I think clapping back creatively, I see a lot of people online when you know someone doesn't like their thing, they'll do like a rebuttal video. Like that kind of stuff is actually very powerful. I recently, this is not a clap back, but I recently did a big thing for indie bookstore day. I'm trying to sell this book, right? That's why I'm here. Um, and I did this big thing, and I was like, I'm gonna give you stickers and I'm gonna get 10% off, and I'm gonna support this indie bookseller in Ohio, and I'm so excited about it. And I sold 18 books, which was really bad. Like they were expecting like 300. And I'm like 12 hours later, the video is bombing, and I'm like, what am I gonna do? So I just made a video and I was like, hi, it's me. Here's a failure story. Um, I wanted to sell these books today and help this bookstore. I had them already. We printed 300 sticker sheets. I sold 18. I feel like a loser. I'm just letting you know this really sucks. Well, then I sold another 100 books. So sometimes being honest or using the failure or the negativity in your power and just naming it and just putting it out there, it's the bomb. It's the best set sell ability you can have. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02You describe yourself as an overachiever, sometimes a perfectionist, maybe a little eager beaver is like the term you like to use. So I feel like in all of that, there's a little bit of nerd in there. Yes. Yes. Would you consider yourself or describe yourself as a nerd? And also, what if you do, how long did it take for you to accept that part of yourself and be like, this is how I'm wired, and it's okay.
SPEAKER_01First of all, I celebrate being a nerd. I, you know, I thought I couldn't understand myself when I first got to Hollywood because I was like, oh, I think I'm here and I want the glamour and I want to go to parties at Chateau Marmand, and I want everyone to know my name. And then, like, as time went on and I got to experience those things, I realized I just want money. Like, I actually went to those parties and it wasn't that fun. And like, what I want is money so that I can be in my beautiful house with my super soft sheets, buying an unlimited amount of books on my Kindle, knitting, watching my shows, going on vacation. Like, success to me looks so once I like when I'm able to take my ego out of it, my true self is such a nerd. Like, I just want to nerd out on the things that I love. And it was funny, I was on a call yesterday for a sponsorship for this book tour and it's a makeup brand, and I got on and I was like trying to explain like Gen Z loves me. And I was like, because everyone wants like the brands to be. And I was like, I have so many blah, blah, blah. And they're like, well, we're really looking for like niche followings. And I was like, oh thank God. And I literally, speaking of using the thing in your super hour, I said, okay, I'm so glad you said that because I've been trying to really sell you on this, but now I can just talk openly. I'm a book nerd. Like, I want to do this entire thing at indie booksellers. I want to create a book bookmark lip gloss case. I want, like, I have this list of like 300 like indie book bloggers that I want to send stuff to. And they were like, oh my God, this is it. Like, this is exactly what we're looking for. So just being yourself and having the courage to be exactly who you are is very, very powerful. Yeah. Please still invite me to your parties. Like, I do want to party. I do want to be invited. I don't want to go.
SPEAKER_00Okay, we have a fill-in-the-blank, okay? Okay. So the next time someone tells you to be the bigger person at work, you should.
SPEAKER_01Thank them for their thoughtful feedback and you will consider it in the future.
SPEAKER_00When someone calls your success lucky, they're really saying I'm jealous.
SPEAKER_01The smartest way to clap back creatively to workplace criticism is to use their negativity to make you more money in some way.
SPEAKER_00I was really hoping you'd say send them a bag of dicks.
SPEAKER_01I mean obviously send them a bag of dicks. The moment I knew I was done being the bigger person was. I start the book like this. I was on a cliff in Ibiza on vacation, should have been the happiest I ever was. Realized that if I didn't change something in my life, I was not gonna make it.
SPEAKER_00The thing I stopped hiding when I started writing this book was my love of trying hard.
SPEAKER_01And now we like you. No, I love a game.
SPEAKER_02Here's your fuck yes, and here's your fuck yes.
SPEAKER_01Wait, this is so cute.
SPEAKER_02Saying yes to every opportunity.
SPEAKER_01How old am I?
SPEAKER_02It's a great question, actually.
SPEAKER_01In your 20s, fuck yes. In 35 plus, fuck no. Good answer.
SPEAKER_02Delusion as a business strategy. Fuck yes. Talking openly about cosmetic procedures. Fuck yes. Yes. Also don't get keep ghosts. Thank you, Dr.
SPEAKER_00Diamond. I look amazing. Friendship breakups being harder than romantic breakups.
SPEAKER_01I hate it. I want to say fuck no, but I think they are. Fuck yes. I care more about some of those friendships than I ever did about that dude. Okay, using Instagram is only your highlight reel. Ugh. Fuck no. But also like it's hard.
SPEAKER_02Because I can't I can't also watch someone cry on Instagram.
SPEAKER_01This is what I'm saying. It's like I don't want a highlight reel, but I also I don't want your darkness real either. I would like, I want like a mid-level review. Is that possible? Yeah. Like I want to see a little of your best and a little of your worst, but not all at once.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Telling your friends the real reason you're not coming to their event.
SPEAKER_01Oh, fuck yes. RuPaul's drag race is on. Don't invite me to things on Friday. Always coming across likable. Oh, fuck no. You well, you should you should come, you should be polite. Yes. And have gratitude.
SPEAKER_02I feel like likable isn't on you though. You are who you are, right? So it's like however they're receiving you is how they're gonna do it. Yeah, I agree.
SPEAKER_01Spending a lot of money on how you look. Yes, fuck yes. Yes. I love it. Like it's my money. I can do what I want. If I want to pay a woman $89 to laminate my eyebrow every three weeks, I do need to go. Don't look at my eyebrows right now.
SPEAKER_03Three weeks.
SPEAKER_01I mean, I did a mistake and then I burnt off some of my eyebrow before the Oscars. Don't talk. Thank you for bringing it up. But anyway, it's my money. I can do whatever I want with it. Yes, I know.
SPEAKER_00I was just wondering if I should go more often. That's like weeks. I think the answer is no. Never mind.
SPEAKER_01I think the answer is watch out. Talking openly about money. Yes. Can I tell you something? Lady Gang, I just want to, because we're on the book topic of books. Our first book we got an advance of $150,000. Our second book we got $250,000 because we'd made the New York Times. My latest book deal, I made $50,000. That's it. I went, I reverted. And like I just want to be real because people are like, oh my God, like Derit's buying a Birkin with her book advance. Maybe. And like I also know a girl that's writing like a technical book on Hollywood that got $450,000. Like it's all over the map. But I just want to be like real about, I wanted to tell you that. Yeah. That's a that's as transparent as it gets. I'm going into debt writing this book because I hired an editor myself to work on it with me, and then I did the photo shoot for the cover myself. Like, I I'm like net zero right now, but I believe that it will help me because Big Pharma's gonna find me because I was on here and they're gonna be like, we need a next person for some X. Okay. Okay. All right. I have a plan, guys. I have a plan. Therapy for everyone. Fuck yes. Especially your parents. Mmm. That's so very true. We go to therapy for the people who don't go to therapy. Yeah. Romanticizing your own life. I think, yes. But also a little dose of realism. Choosing your career over your relationship. I love to choose my career over my relationship, and I get a lot of hate for that. But I think that if I'm not happy in what I'm doing, I will never be happy making out with you. So I need to put my own mask on first, get the life that I want so that we can live that life together. Oh that's sorry. That's probably an unpopular thing.
SPEAKER_00I don't think it's that unpopular at all. Because that's how that's how I feel. And my partner knows that. He knows that if I have a career thing, it's gonna happen. But he's supportive of that. So he's not like hurt that I'm choosing the career part.
SPEAKER_02Thank you so much for being on Broadlines. We truly appreciate it. If you guys feel seen, make sure you get her book. Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_00The fuck them theory.
SPEAKER_01Do the plug. Okay, the book is fthombook.com. And the reason I want you to buy it there and not at a retailer is because when you pre-order the book, it comes out in November. When you pre-order the book after listening to this amazing conversation, um, you get automatically added into my mentorship program, which is called the K-Type Collective. And I do weekly emails and uh zooms every month. And then I also have a separate like TV host Zoom that I do where I'm like looking at people's reels and helping them. And so you basically get me for the next seven months for free to be your mentor. So I think I'm like, thank you for buying my book. Let me give you something. I love that. All right, thank you for joining us. Bye.
SPEAKER_00Thanks for tuning in to this week's episode of Broadlines, a production of the female quotient filmed in Los Angeles. If you like this episode, and I know you did, make sure to rate, review, and subscribe. If you have a question, maybe a work question, or you have an idea for an episode, DM us at female quotient or leave a comment to get the conversation started. Hit that follow button while you're there. See you next week.