You can lose your mom twice | Jacquelyn Revere

81% of elder caregivers are women, and most don't realize what it actually costs until they're living it. On this week's #FQBroadlines, hosts Rae Williams and Natalie Lizarraga meet with Jacquelyn Revere, the woman behind "mom of my mom," who at 29 uprooted her entire life to become the sole caregiver for both her mother and her grandmother and turned that experience into a movement.

She shares moments from her journey, like flying home to find unpaid mortgage notices and expired food in the fridge, to the moment her mother started calling her "mom," and the data showing daughters spend twice as much time caregiving as sons, with sons pulling back even further when a sister is around. She also breaks down what caregiving actually costs you financially and professionally, and what it means to rebuild your identity once the person you cared for is gone.

Follow Jacquelyn Revere: @momofmymom

Broadlines is a production of The Female Quotient and recorded in Los Angeles, California. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

We're talking about caregiving today. It's still widely seen as women's work. Globally, 81% of elder caregivers are women, and the growing share of them ray are millennial women. Shock.

SPEAKER_00 0:11

Yeah. Well, today on Broadlines, we're breaking down why elder care falls disproportionately on daughters, the sandwich generation, and what that costs women financially and professionally, and then what we actually do about it.

SPEAKER_02 0:22

Today's guest is Jacqueline J. Revere, the woman behind the handle, mom of my mom, who at 29 uprooted her entire life to be the sole caregiver for both her mother and her grandmother, and turned that experience into a movement. Welcome, Jacqueline. Thank you so much. At 29 years old, when suddenly you became the sole caregiver to both your mother and your grandmother. Can you take us back to that moment? What happened and how did your life completely change overnight?

SPEAKER_01 0:53

Okay, so prior to starting, I just like to say that I am a person who's stutters, and so you guys will see andor hear that, and just want to like let that out there. Okay, so at the time I was living in New York City. My grandmother and my mom had purchased the this house when I was in high school. And so I was taking the subway downtown, and my mom's friend called me, and I was like, Why is my phone ringing? And so I answered it, and she said, Something is wrong with your mom. You need to fly home. And I was just sort of like, something's wrong with my mom, you know. Uh I ended up flying home about four days later to find that there had been wet clothes left in the washer for days. Food had expired. We had a letter from the mortgage lender saying that the mortgage had not been paid. And so there were these huge signs.

SPEAKER_02 2:10

You get there and you realize that things are farther along than you probably or didn't realize what was happening. And so when did you decide, okay, now I have to stay?

SPEAKER_01 2:20

It was pretty quickly. Uh my grandmother didn't know who I was, and so that was a sign also, but my mother's short-term memory was maybe five to ten minutes. And so knowing that she could not retain in formation uh was the sign.

SPEAKER_00 2:52

My grandmother had Alzheimer's as well, so I know it kind of starts off where you, you know, you kind of see these, you know, these changes. When were you able to actually get a definitive diagnosis? I remember like for us, it was my grandmother would like reach into the mirror to get things. Like so she would see her purse on the floor, and then she would reach into the mirror to get her purse. And it was just a very sh, you know, strange but different, but it didn't automatically scream Alzheimer. So when were you able to actually get that definitive diagnosis?

SPEAKER_01 3:21

I wasn't able to get a diagnosis for my mom until about a year and nine months. And uh that took so long because her signs started so young, and so no one thought that she had it. And so they would test her for everything but that. Um, and so it took us some time.

SPEAKER_00 3:50

And then you, you know, when you started this platform and you decided to start documenting this, um, you named it mom of my mom because your mother actually started calling you. Um, mommy, what was it like to all of a sudden just have those roles reversed? And how did that kind of reframe how you saw yourself?

SPEAKER_01 4:08

Stepping in to care for a parent is an identity shift completely. I think my mom calling me mom nailed it in, but I think the harder part was when she recognized that she did not know who my mom was, meaning she did not know that she was my mom. It's multi-layered. I was playing the role that a mom would, and so it made sense that she called me that, but it also meant that I was losing my mom at the same time. And so there's a morning that comes also. The acceptance of the shift that comes is hard because no one wants to no one wants to experience that sort of loss, and so the acceptance is very slow, and that is a mourning also, because you're um mourning the future that you thought you might have, who they could be for me. Um my relationship with my mom was was so hard, and I had hoped that we could talk through some of my childhood at some point, and not even having the opportunity for that makes it hard, also.

SPEAKER_02 5:48

We sh showed some of the data, shared some of the data about daughters versus sons. Daughters actually spend twice as much time caregiving for their sons, for parents as their sons do, and sons actually, this is alarming, but it's proven that sons actually reduce their efforts when their sister is present. Have you seen that in your experiencing working with others? Because I know you do this work now for other caregivers to give them a space. Have you seen that?

SPEAKER_01 6:15

I have an online community called the Care Den. And there are plenty of um women in there who have siblings, who have like male siblings, who do not show up in any way. And not only is it an added layer of shh dress, but I think what people don't realize is that them not showing up in such an important time changes the relationship from that moment forward. And so there is often them like trying to recandle that sibling relationship once the parent has passed, but it's like you weren't here when we needed you, and so it it it puts an extra layer of stress on the person who showed up, and that's often not fair.

SPEAKER_02 7:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:24

Yeah. And probably hard to repair. Yeah. What did caregiving cost you professionally and financially? And did you ever feel like you had to choose between showing up for your mother and your grandmother and then showing up for your career? Because you I mean you were in New York City, you were, you know, living your best life, you know, what what did that feel like for you?

SPEAKER_01 7:44

Yeah. So I was working as an executive assistant, and I uh was, you know, on the road to work in TBN film. Uh, and that is such a demanding role that I had to completely give up. Um but then once I moved home, which no one asked me if this was what I wanted, or were there any other options? Like, no one really said that. It was just it was uh assumed, but then on top of that, people were sort of like, well, your mom cared for you, and so why aren't you, you know, mm showing up to care for her with more uh joy, I think. And I think the com the comparison of the two is not fair, and also uh they're not the same.

SPEAKER_00 8:53

It's not, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:54

Uh but then on top of that, as I was home caring for both my grandmother and my mom, my not partnered at all, uh, my father would like say, So, when are you having kids?

unknown 9:08

Really?

SPEAKER_01 9:09

And I'm like, So I have all the time for that. That but like there's this assumption that like my role is to show up for my mom. My role is to have a kid so that he can share photos of it. Yeah. And like my role does not center who I am or like my hopes. And um that was like really that is what became more clear than anything else.

SPEAKER_00 9:42

Yeah. And I think, you know, you said it's it's not the expectation is not fair just because, you know, your parent has raised you or showed up for you, that you should, you know, enthusiastically like, you know, go back. Of course, you know, for a lot of us, you want to, in a way, you know, take care of your parents. But I think what people don't realize, especially with a disease like Alzheimer's, is that this is not the same person in a way that you grew up with, that this person, and I I think people don't see how the changes are day by day. Like one day they remember you and they remember something and they say something, and the next day they're completely different. And in some cases, I I was lucky that my grandmother wasn't um mean, but I know other people who's, you know, your their parents get aggressive and they're, you know, it's it's also not the same person. You're also forming a new relationship with not the person you grew up with. So to say, like, let me go into this like you know enthusiastically or with joy, I think people sometimes don't understand with, especially with Alzheimer's, how difficult that is. When you were kind of making this transition, is there anything that you wished, for instance, your employer would have done? Because I know you say that, you know, nobody kind of asked you, you know, what you want what you wanted to do, what your, you know, choices were. Do you wish specifically at work there was something that was done for you?

SPEAKER_01 10:55

I was lucky because my employer had cared for his father. And so he's like, he he helped me fly home. Okay. But then on top of that, he's like, he offered to uh write a recommendation for work. He understood why I had to leave, but the company overall uh wasn't helpful or or um supportive, and many women have to leave their work in order to care for family, and they receive no support. Um, and we're having these conversations more, and there are small changes that have have come, but nothing that um that is on a national level yet.

SPEAKER_02 12:01

I think we should dive right into that because you're right, there are so many women. We finally just got caught up with like women needing time to take care of a baby, let alone all of us are now in this sandwich generation where our parents are getting older and it's going to fall on us to take care of them. And there's no space for that when it comes to the working world. Like they're not letting you take that time. What do you wish someone did for your company did for you? What do you wish for women who are going to find themselves in this situation that they're becoming caregivers very suddenly?

SPEAKER_01 12:33

I would have hoped for so this was in 2016. If work from home was an option at that point, I would have hoped to transition to that. I would have hoped for uh an allotted amount of time where I could figure it out. Uh paid leave would have been great. Um I I would have appreciated mental support. There are so many emotions that come with caring for a parent, and you don't realize that you're mourning so soon in. And so if I could understand the complexity of feelings that were going on, I could have managed them in a way that I maybe could have also worked.

SPEAKER_02 13:50

I you know, you talked about your dad, and there's other family members involved when something has to happen. It fell on you to take care of your mom. This is complex, right? You just said there's many layers to this, there's mourning in this as well. Do you resent the family members who didn't show up? I mean, it's a big question. Do you how do you move past that feeling if you ever did feel that way? Because naturally, I think someone would be like day after day, you start to resent the people who are not showing up, not only for your mom, but for you, because you caregivers also need a break, need help.

SPEAKER_01 14:21

Yeah, you absolutely do. I still resent them. I haven't talked to my dad in over one year. It's been some time. Uh, and coming to terms with it is really hard. And I've had to restructure the people that I let in my life because I also think that those of us who take on the road to care for someone are also probably the people who show up when things fall apart. Like we are the ones who show up. And people take that for granted when they get used to seeing the same person show up. Yeah. And and I think once that happens, uh people get situated in the fact where, oh, she'll show up, you know, it's okay. And uh resentment comes from that too. And so if you want to re-build the relationship, it has to be in a completely new way. And so learning to uh advocate for yourself, learning to request help and then tell people how to show up. And then also uh when they don't show up, knowing that they're not someone who can and uh accepting that, yeah. Which is not easy. No, you know, yeah. And so it's uh it's a multi-pronged approach also. Everything is just, you know, layers, layers. Um but yeah, I I I've chosen to, now that my mom's not here, I've chosen to continue my life with a new set of people who make me feel like my per my getting emotional, excuse me. I am also as well. It's hard to talk about. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:23

Who make me feel like my presence matters? You know, the majority of caregivers are women. And, you know, we we don't have these conversations that there is also a pay gap in that. So, you know, why do you think it is that we are expected to do this job and almost do it for free? And who is benefiting from that when, you know, when women are kind of like out of the, you know, workforce to kind of do this invisible unpaid job in a way?

SPEAKER_01 16:51

Uh so within this country particularly, care began as a job for slaves. And so if we look at the way that the foundation started, it was never a type of work that had respect. Then once immigration slowly picked uh up there were more like women who filled in the role of Philippina um Mexican, and there have been laws like made specifically so that these roles won't have um pendulations and social security and social safe nets. And so because the role from its core started as a um as work that wasn't respected, now that we all have to show up in it, no one um sees it as the much needed important work that it is.

SPEAKER_02 18:37

That's kind of the next question I have for you is is what do women actually need? What do they need when it comes to caregiving support? And what are they definitely not getting?

SPEAKER_01 18:50

We need legislation change, we need a cultural movement, we need the un we need people to understand that like the same way that it takes a village to raise a child, it takes a village to walk someone to their final resting place. We need to rework uh there's so much, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:18

There's so much probably so much, and you live through a lot of what support you might have needed and didn't get.

SPEAKER_01 19:24

Yes, and so social supports we need a cultural shift we need money. We need a connection also. Um one of the leading causes of depression for those of us who care for some one is uh isolatation and that leads to poor health out health out comes also. Um I uh 2018's study said that about sixty percent of the dementia caregivers pass prior to the person that they care for. And that is because they tend to neglect themselves also. And so if we can find the connection that we need, the support, then we can change some of those those stats also.

SPEAKER_00 20:49

What do you want women who are in the thick of the journey right now, especially the ones, you know, doing it alone, but also the ones who are, you know, feeling the guilt of, you know, even getting help because we have this perception that it should be you and you should be doing it for free and you should be doing it with joy. What do you want those women to know about this journey? No one should give care alone.

SPEAKER_01 21:16

It's not fair. And it's nearly impossible to meet the needs of one person. Um, and their needs shift so much, and the brain power that it takes to meet those needs, you need like more people to help you solve them. Um, on top of that, shame comes from how we think, and so reframing the thoughts is really necessary. And so thinking like I I should be able to. care for my mom solo can like be reframed where it's like I am doing the best I can but I can't care for her as well as she needs without support and when we reframe those thoughts we uh open the door to then find help.

SPEAKER_02 22:30

Here's a good question. We've talked about women obviously and in your opinion if men carried this same load that we are carrying, what do you think would change overnight?

SPEAKER_01 22:44

The pay. That would change overnight for sure. Uh we would get paid so much more I think the respect like I I men ha don't have the ability to multitask or do more than one thing at once the way we can. And I think recognizing the multitude of uh thoughts and problems that we are solving all at once will be uh recognized as well. I think we will have bills signed into action so quickly. Uh we would have insurance comp companies taken to task we would have nursing homes covered for long term care. We uh would have long term I mean the list is low list is so long yeah and so there would be a lot but most of all we would get paid way more.

SPEAKER_00 24:02

You know earlier you mentioned too that no one should do it alone. How do you and especially as a woman advocate for yourself within the family structure or you know even externally to to get the help that you need to share that load.

SPEAKER_01 24:16

Yeah I talk to caregivers about this pretty often and what I say is first make a list of what you need and then make a list of people that you think would be willing to show up and then I say tell them what you need and when and so can you drop off food by Friday because when someone says like let me know when you need something that's like not yeah not um specific and so saying can you drop off water I think really checking in with yourself knowing when it's just too much knowing when you just need some time and not feeling shame to um say it out loud.

SPEAKER_02 25:21

There is a lot of I feel like shame that comes along with that as a caregiver what were those moments like you for because I feel like I might be like well I need time but I'm not I'm not brave enough or why I need to ask for because this is taking up all my time and she needs all of my attention like were there moments where you needed a break and maybe didn't take them oh the whole time?

SPEAKER_01 25:45

Absolutely always absolutely always and also there are people who will say no you know and so bouncing back from that you know it is hard also. Um taking my growth moments is something that I tried to to help people get with is that like there are some times where you just have to take the moment and put your phone back down and and and breathe in in and out. Planning something to look forward to and so making sure that like there was at least one thing per month that I looked for f forward to one of the things too that I recall is that obviously you know this whole conversation like you wouldn't think there's a lot of joy anywhere but I think it's so important to find and I know that for us we found little moments.

SPEAKER_00 26:57

So like you know whether that was like you know my grandmother sat in her same chair we still have the chair she sat in the in the same chair in the living room and sometimes she would just start laughing and we don't know what she's laughing at, but the laugh was funny. We're just laughing the more we laughed the more she laughed and it was just those little moments I know like she would go for a walk every single morning, you know, with with Gwen who was you know her her caretaker like when I say you know loyal till the very end that's what she would do. So you know we would join her on those walks, you know, walk down the street and walk back when she couldn't walk anymore. She was pushing her in the wheelchair. We would come along for the walks and there were just those little glimmers I think that, you know, I wouldn't say may I I would not say they made the experience easier, but they gave you things to remember that weren't just the last like you know couple months to years of this person's life being this you know awful experience. For you, did you have any of those, you know, little glimmers that you could find and how would you advise people in this position to also, you know, make it a just even a little bit easier. You know, for yourself, obviously looking for you know planning that one thing a month you know is helpful and having something to look forward to but within the actual experience was there anything that you found and could recommend?

SPEAKER_01 28:10

Yeah caregiving makes your life so small that choosing the small moments to find can um make up everything. And so you know there got to a point where like my mom sitting up even like I was just kind of like look at you sitting up all the way you know um and so you just have to choose to be present like ultra you just have to like be in the moment and also grateful for the very small kid things. Um sort of how I with small k kids it's like you you jumped you know like you held yourself up like what wow look at you that's amazing uh flowers helped flowers helped a lot songs helped a lot yeah yeah sunshine even like I'm like the sun feels great like oh my goodness and so it's it it really forces you to just tune into the very small moments and make that mean something.

SPEAKER_00 29:36

You know the the the people you're caring for are gone you know they don't need you anymore but you've made your life you know needing them you get used to this routine I know for us it was like you know we we all lived in the same house multi-generational house so you know grandmother's in the house like I know for you know her her caretaker our housekeeper it was kind of like her whole role was gone you know so we we were you know I know for us we were kind of like okay you know it's strange it's strange and it's different for you how was that experience and how did you kind of start to rebuild if you will I had gotten so good at it by the time my mom passed that I was so angry that I was like but I just figured it out we had found someone that we loved and she cared for my mom so well and I had finally figured out how to make time for myself again and and it's not like my mom passed away slowly.

SPEAKER_01 30:44

Hers was like so sudden and so I felt like I didn't have like that time to to wind down and and think about what my life would be with her not here. Um and so once she just wasn't here I was just kind of like what do I do now? Um the schedule of waking her up every morning and making her food and and all of that it faded away but then on top of that the help that we had the people that would show up faded away and so it was just me. And it was very lonely and I didn't know how to cope and I began like making routines slowly. And so my dog was so helpful because I was like every morning I have to like give you something to do. And so just slowly setting up like walk my dog wash my face sometimes. You know like it but it was very touch and go for a minute. Um your identity becomes completely wrapped up and so now once they're not here you're pretty much finding yourself all over again. And so it's a journey and many people say that it's taken them years. I'm in year four now and I'm finally feeling like my new self. Watching a parent slowly decline is so hard. My mom was joyful still and so like losing her when we still had moments was hard. Were we at the place where like her muscles were starting to fold in and she wasn't eat eating and then I could probably uh handle that better but we were singing and dancing still. Yeah. You know and so that's what made it hard because I felt like we still had time.

SPEAKER_02 33:12

Thank you for sharing your experience with everyone and and in because like I said a lot of women are going to find themselves in this position. And you give such on social media it's very relatable and you're very, very open about your actual feelings. I feel like a lot of women might try to be strong like in face when they're really drowning and they don't have the courage to ask someone for help. And I feel like you really are open and you're relatable in the fact that people can go to the care den and can ask for help when they need it. We do have a few questions that are going to ask you to fill in the blank. Lovely. Okay. The hardest part of being a caregiver isn't the caregiving it's the blank.

SPEAKER_01 33:53

Judgmental people I could fill that in a few times.

SPEAKER_00 33:57

Okay yeah and then my go-to self-care after a long day is long shower.

SPEAKER_02 34:04

If I were to describe my journey in three words it would be life changing soul stirring eye opening.

SPEAKER_00 34:11

When you get a text from a friend you hope it says let's get a drink I also hope that's what it says.

SPEAKER_02 34:18

Universal all right if men were expected to carry the same loan as women they would go to war. One of the things I do want to ask you is you have such a soothing voice. Have you ever thought of meditations? Because I would listen to you talk all day long because it's your voice is so soft and soothing.

SPEAKER_01 34:35

Oh my God. So that's another conversation. Okay. Like tuttering has been the bane of my existence and I've always like thought like no one wants to hear you. And no I do. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 34:50

You're also very authentic and it's like listening to I could listen to you because your voice is just soothing.

SPEAKER_01 34:55

Has anyone have told you that since I've like started making content.

SPEAKER_02 34:59

Yeah yes yes it is very thank you yes is very good. So if you're looking for another stream of income thank you so much for sharing I know it's it's it's a lot and you've probably shared with a lot of people but for a lot of us with parents who are getting older this is a very real conversation that we also need to be real with ourselves because there might be a moment where we're gonna have to step in and take care of our parents. We we read the stats that millennial it's falling on millennial women. So thank you so much. I would say that one of my takeaway was is this is very real and this is a conversation we need to continue to be having. We talk about motherhood and postpartum and all of those things when it comes to caretaking but you're right it is often like taking care of a small child in in that way. And there's not enough resources for that.

SPEAKER_00 35:44

My takeaway is that you know this experience is so much more universal than you would know. And I think because we often attribute it to a woman's role or something that the daughters do or the sister in the family will do, we we almost forget that there is a network of us, you know, that have been through this experience. And I think with your work that's what you're doing is you're you know connecting others to the fact that this is an experience that a lot of people are going through and how to move through it, which I don't think is a resource that's offered enough. Like you know we can obviously we want the things we want we want you know legislation and we want you know better healthcare and we want you know all of these different things but I think also what we do need in that is what you are providing which is a community of people that help you to eventually get to the place where you got to which is having a routine and having you know being able to to balance you know caregiving with living you know until we can get to a point where there are better options for us. So I think that's something you know that we need to realize more. And then also I think what was really important is just like our conversation about choosing you know seeing those little glimmers seeing those little things choosing joy and those little moments because I truly think that that's what keeps you sane through these experiences.

SPEAKER_01 37:03

A caregiver's best resource is another caregiver. And so if people learn that knowing that they can find support when they find people like them is the the shining light of it all.

SPEAKER_00 37:26

Jacqueline thank you so much thanks for tuning into this week's episode of Broadlines a production of the female quotient filmed in Los Angeles if you like this episode and I know you did make sure to rate review and subscribe if you have a question maybe a work question or you have an idea for an episode DM us at female quotient or leave a comment to get the conversation started.