Episode 4 - Parenting: DR. R.B. Oullette and wife, Krisy Interview Part 2

  Pastor R. B. Ouellette, born into the family of a preacher, dedicated himself to full-time Christian work at the tender age of twenty in 1973. For over four decades, since 1975, he has faithfully served as the esteemed pastor of the First Baptist Church of Bridgeport, Michigan, witnessing the manifold blessings of God in a truly remarkable manner.

Beyond his pastoral responsibilities, Pastor Ouellette has left an indelible mark as an accomplished author, contributing valuable works to Christian literature, including notable titles such as "When You Can't Just Get Over It," "A More Sure Word," "Trusting God in Troubled Times," and "Rewired."

The fruitful journey of Reverend Ouellette is further enriched by his personal life. In 1973, he entered into holy matrimony with his beloved wife, Krisy. Together, they have nurtured a family blessed with the joy of two children.

Pastor R. B. Ouellette's life and ministry stand as a testament to his unwavering commitment to the Christian faith.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:03

Welcome to this special episode of To Train Up a Child. This is part two of my interview discussion with evangelist Dr. Arby Willette and his wife Christy on the topic of parenting. So this is part two. I hope you enjoyed part one. And I think you'll enjoy part two just the same.

SPEAKER_03 1:04

I would say probably I tended to be more of a perfectionist. And so I would want things done a certain way, and I would want it done my way. And so when the job wasn't complete, I would get frustrated and I would not stop to take into consideration how they were doing it, that they couldn't do it the same way. And so I had to learn to be more patient with the fact that they're 10 and they weren't 30, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:42

Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:43

But because we had children later in life, I think I had um established more of my own patterning. And so, you know, why would you scatter your toys all over in that type of thing, which is which is a small thing, but I needed to readjust my thinking on that and think they're kids.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

Sure.

SPEAKER_03 2:07

They're kids. And so, you know, if I were to um do those days over again, I'd say, hey, scatter more toys. You know.

SPEAKER_02 2:17

Well, and when you mess up, fess up. If you're unkind, gets barren, you say, No, I was unkind. Uh I I shouldn't have said that that way. I should not have been angry. I believe you should never discipline your children in anger. I believe that if you're angry, you ought to wait till you're calmed down before you talk about it.

SPEAKER_00 2:36

Yes, I agree. And I think also there there may be no more powerful two words you could say to a child than I'm sorry, is to teach them not only to teach them you're not perfect as a parent, but to teach them how to handle that. Like you say, when you mess up, fess up, and you're teaching your child, hey, dads mess up too, moms mess up too, but when we do, this is how we handle it. And it can be very powerful, you know, it can be hard. Nobody wants to say those words to anybody, but certainly not to your child, but it can be a very powerful tool in teaching them as well as letting them know, hey, I messed up and I'm really sorry. Um I think that can be a really, really powerful thing. Um at what point in parenting do you change morph from instruction to guidance? And I I what I'm feeling in my own home right now is you know, my oldest son at the time of recording this is 15. And at that age, I've done a lot of the instruction. He he knows what I expect, he knows what I believe, he knows he knows what the Bible says, and and he can quote to me what the Bible says about various things. And so I feel as though my parenting has shifted slightly to where instead of me saying you do this, this, this, this, this, I'm maybe giving a more broader view of of what I want him to do, and then he has to start making those decisions on kind of how to get to that end. Um, does that make sense? Would you agree with that?

SPEAKER_02 4:13

Absolutely. Somebody told me one time they said, questions stir the conscience, accusations harden the will. And as soon as they said that, I thought, yeah, that's what God did in the Garden of Eden. Adam, where are you? No, I'll let you in on a secret. God knew.

SPEAKER_01 4:30

Right.

SPEAKER_02 4:32

Oh, who told you you were naked? He knew that too. Right. Did you eat of that tree? I told you not to eat up, he knew that too. He wasn't seeking information, he was stirring their conscience. One of the things I'd say to people is that people will often argue with what you tell them, but they never argue with what they tell you. So if you ask a question and they answer it, they can't argue with their own answer. And the goal is to ask questions like the Lord Jesus did that guide you to the truth.

SPEAKER_03 5:02

Right. Renee was really always good too, is he did not belabor a point. He dealt with it by principle, and he guided them by principle, but he did not take 20 minutes to explain the principle. And because most kids check out, you know, very quickly, but yet the girls knew when daddy said this and why he said it, what he meant, and there was no argument.

SPEAKER_02 5:33

They might remember a 30-second statement, they won't remember a 30-minute one.

SPEAKER_00 5:37

Right, right. They'll they'll check out quickly, especially because the longer you lecture, it becomes more about you than the child. And so the child recognizes that and says, they're just diatribing here, just trying to get get a point across, and I'm I'm gone.

SPEAKER_02 5:52

Well, Jesus said that the Pharisees, you think you'll be earned for your much speaking.

unknown 5:57

And it was just not gonna work.

SPEAKER_00 5:59

Right, right. Absolutely. Um move on to another set of topics of the emotional well-being and connection. And um how um how do you connect with teens? You you guys, um certainly Brother Willette, and I know more recently, I know Miss Christy, you've been uh you've been able to travel with him some. You guys are in churches all around the country in evangelism and and and you see uh and one thing I've observed um of you is that you you have a way of connecting with any age group. I've seen you connect with small children, uh uh teenagers, adults, older people, and um I think one of the things a lot of people struggle with is how to connect with teenagers in general, but I think parents even begin to struggle to connect with their teens. They get to an age where they they don't want the same things they used to want. They don't want to spend as much time with mom and dad. They don't they don't they want to spend time in their room and they want to spend time with their friends. And how do you maintain a connection, maybe is a better question, with your teenagers.

SPEAKER_02 7:08

Well, Chrissy was great. I don't think there was ever a time with either of our girls that they didn't want to be around their mom. I don't think there was ever a time that they said, you know, you guys are out of it. Um I think you have to understand where people are. You try to think what they are thinking, try to remember how you felt when you were their age. A teenager will not usually open up to you and tell you how they're feeling. But if you say, Can I guess what you're thinking? And if you can be accurate, their eyes will open wide. Because they think you were born at the age of 25.

SPEAKER_00 7:47

Right.

SPEAKER_02 7:47

They don't think you ever went through what they're going through, and if you can relate to them. I would often tell the story in our chapel when I was a kid in the eighth grade at Cadillac Junior High School in Detroit. They had a thing called a slam book. At the front, you put your name next to a number, and then each page was a question, what do you think of? And there were some movie stars and sports figures, but most of it was people in the class. And you'd write your comments, put a line, and put your number under it. Now, all of my clothes of that time came from the Detroit Rescue Mission. All of them. I had no idea about style. And I was going through the book, writing what I thought of everybody. I remember we had a girl in my class named Linda, and we were studying Spanish, and I wrote Linda Ace We Linda. I thought that was very clever. Then I came to a page with my name on it. And some people said nice things, but some of them said slob, bad dresser, weird clothes. And at that moment, I would have done anything in the world to be accepted by my peers. Good or bad, right or wrong. Now, what I did was I looked and saw what the other guys were wearing, the clothes I had that were closest to it. I started shoving in snow and cutting grass and bought some clothes that I thought were more acceptable. But I never forgot how I felt then. And teenagers, uh it's deeply important to them that they be accepted. And if they don't get accepted from by their parents and they don't feel that, and they do feel it by their peers, they're gonna go the way of their peers, not the way of their parents.

unknown 9:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:22

What would you say are some healthy boundaries in the digital world for I used to say teens, but really kids too, with uh the internet, with video games, with iPads and all of that. What are what are some healthy boundaries, some quick things that a parent can maybe put in practice for their home?

SPEAKER_02 9:43

Well, number one, we always had fun things that we did that were not digital. We played ping pong and air hockey and uh card games, skipbo, and games like that. And uh we play badminton and volleyball and charts and you know croquet. Because uh too many people, everything focuses around their device. Number two, um our kids were younger, the cell phones weren't out like they are now. My manager recommends that no teenager ever have a smartphone. Maybe a flip phone where you can uh call your parents until 18. Well, uh this isn't no teenager, but probably when they go off to college, they'll change that. And then you recommended very wisely some kind of a device where you know everything your child is doing. Our granddaughter Sawyer is 12. Yeah, she's 13 now. And she has a phone, but everything she does, her mother does. Everything on there. So I think those are some good guidance.

SPEAKER_03 10:49

I would also put restrictions as a mom. I would not if if we if we had cell phones back when the girls were growing up in our home, I wouldn't let them bring it to the table. You know, dinner time should be dinner time, lunch time. That's that should be family time. You shouldn't be looking down at your home. Sacred time.

SPEAKER_00 11:11

Yeah, sacred time.

SPEAKER_03 11:12

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there's a time and there's a place, you know. I I love them for the the safety of being able to to to call if there's a difficulty or that type of thing, but there's times that you don't need to depend on the phone, depend on mom and dad, you know.

SPEAKER_00 11:31

Sure, yeah. No, that's good. Would you say that um an aspect of setting boundaries and well maybe I'll say it this way, an aspect of a healthy digital environment, because the fact of the matter is the digital world is here. And you know, I I agree, teenagers don't need smartphones, but their friends have one. And so the boundaries are necessary beyond just the um restriction of what you own or have, but what you can do when you're at a friend's house or at school or or whatever. Would you say kind of a paramount um aspect of that is having an open environment at home as far as communication? How important is that in this world today? Because the fact of the matter is, most parents of teenagers today did not grow up with the same access to the internet and the entire world of information. And so a parent today, more often than not, is not going to just know what their child has access to and what they're gonna be doing. And so to me, I feel as though having an environment of open communication to where kids can feel comfortable talking to their parents about any topic. And even if it feels weird or it feels awkward, we we don't, as parents, we don't want to make it awkward. And I I had a conversation with my son not that long ago. It was something that he was burdened about, and and the Lord kind of worked on him actually through a chapel service that I preached, and he stressed over it all day long until after church that night on a Wednesday night, and he stayed up and waited for me to get home, and he was able to communicate with me what was going on, and in my heart, I was I was disappointed about what he had done and and what he was going through. I was disappointed that I couldn't help him through it in the moment, but I had to control that because I thought if if I one time show him that I'm bothered by this, he may never talk to me again. And so would you agree with that that maybe one of the most important pieces of setting those boundaries is not just here's the walls, but when you when you breach that wall, you can always come back, right?

SPEAKER_02 14:05

Absolutely. And they need to know that though their sin is wrong and we don't excuse it, it is not the only time that sin has ever been committed. And uh they need to realize that God is displeased, but he loves them, wants forgive them, and they will be one of millions of people who have done the same thing and found the same forgiveness. Right.

SPEAKER_01 14:27

Right.

SPEAKER_03 14:27

One of the things that you said about open communication, I think if we get that when the children are little, I remember one time specifically, Renee had just sat down in the easy chair and he'd had a long date, probably been traveling or whatever. And Carissa was younger than five because Katie wasn't born yet. And she walked over to the window and she said, Oh, Daddy, come look. And it was nothing significant at all out there. And I don't even remember what it was, if it was a bird or if she saw a rabbit or whatever. And without any question, he got up out of the chair, he walked over to where she was, he got down and put his arm around her and said, Show me what you want me to see, you know. And we were talking about it later. And I said, That was really nice of you, because I knew he was exhausted or tired or you know, weary. The Bible says, don't be weary and well doing. And he said, I want her to come to me when she's 15 with that same openness. And so he was always very good, and we had a very open relationship with the girls because you know, if if they were like this and and they were ignored as a youngster, they're gonna find somebody not to ignore them, and we wanted them to always come to us. Right.

SPEAKER_02 15:51

One of my decisions I made as a very young parent was to never say no to our children if I did not need to. I was gonna have to say no, you can't wear that, no, you can't listen to that, no, you can't watch that, no, you can't go there. But I wouldn't say no, I won't give you a horse back ride. No, I won't look at your picture, no, I won't get down on the floor and wrestle with you. So I would never say no to the things that were just me, but only to the things that are matters of right and wrong.

SPEAKER_00 16:20

I I've I've had a similar policy. I even try to have that policy as a leader as well, in that I try to say yes as often as I can so that my no means no. And my people know and my kids know that when I say no, it's because it's an absolute it can't be done. Because I try to say yes as often as I can. And I know we're in a parenting podcast, but uh there's so many similarities to leadership in parenting. It's really the same. And when I tell my employees I treat them like my children, it's not in a derogatory way, but leadership is so similar to parenting in in a corporate world, in a secular world, and in a ministry world. Um it's a quick question, but it might not be an easy answer. How do you guard a child's heart? I believe that's a job of a parent. We need to guard our kids' hearts today more than ever. The enemy has always been after the heart of our children, but he has so many more avenues and weapons now than he's ever had before. How do we guard our child's heart without isolating them or putting them in a bubble?

SPEAKER_03 17:29

One thing I would do when I would pick the children up from school or take them to school, when I'd pick them up, I would I would say to them, What did you do today to be a blessing to other people and get them talking about the good? And then there was another time where Katie told me that this is our youngest daughter. She said that she was in um the hallway and she had given her passbook to no, no, no, uh, a girlfriend had given her her passbook and said, Here, hold this to me. I've got to go into the office and do something. She handed it to Katie open, and Katie looked down at the opened notebook of this other girl, and this girl who she thought was her friend said, Katie Willette, the perfect smile, the perfect dress, the perfect house, the perfect, you know, hair, all these things. And then she said, I hate her guts. And I said to Katie, I said, Oh, sweetheart, I am so sorry. And she says, Oh, mom, that's no big deal. I says, Well, what did you do? And she says, I shut the book and she never know, she never knew that I even saw it. Oh, wow. And I said to her, I said, Well, Katie, that's gonna make a great Sunday school illustration someday. And she says, Mom, it's no big deal. Our oldest daughter was in the back seat, and she said, No big deal, I would have been crying, you know. But we had that openness, and I tried to get the girls to realize our goal is to give God glory. It doesn't matter about these other things, but if you can guard your heart and make the right choices, you're gonna be happy because you're gonna make God happy.

SPEAKER_02 19:29

Well, we have a great answer. Really important question keep that heart with all diligence or out of any of the issues of life. So ultimately, each individual must guard their own heart. We teach our children to do it. We teach them by limiting what they hear, limiting what they see. We teach them by putting the right things in, establishing the right attitudes, and then giving the right examples and trying to be the right models. But ultimately, we must pray that God protects us.

SPEAKER_00 19:59

That's good. Yeah. Um why do you think parents are so afraid today of being unpopular? They want to be their kids' best friends. Where does that come from? And what's the danger in that?

SPEAKER_03 20:16

I think it comes from insecurity. Exactly. And you want you want your kids to be your cheerleader and tell you how good you are, where we need to be committing them to God, and it doesn't matter if they like our decision or not. We still need to stand by it as it lines up with the word of God and and guide them, and then and then don't carry a grudge. Let it let it go, you know, because it's real easy to get for a child to get irritated with a parent, but then the parent to take that irritation and it builds a bridge, you know. Keep the lines open. Amen.

SPEAKER_02 21:00

And I think a parent needs to be willing to give unrequited love. Yeah. Especially as the child becomes a teenager. That's good. You hug your little three-year-old, she hugs you back, you hug your eight-year-old, and he stayed behind and he comes and hugs me every time he sees me, you know, great kid. But then they get about 12, 13, and you give them a hug and they look at you. And what you need to do is not embarrass them, not force them, but keep on giving them hugs, keep on telling them you love them. They may not respond, but they eventually will. And the parents just need to realize they are the grown-ups. Right. And that is, Chrissy said it so well, it's not their job to be popular, it's their job to train the child and do right. And no child ever became an adult and said, Wow, I'm glad my parents always gave me my way and never told me I was wrong. Right. But a lot of child children became adults and said, Wow, I sure am glad that mom taught me this, kept me from that, dad helped me in this.

SPEAKER_00 21:58

Yeah, I would agree. I uh I have a a saying uh that I've I use with my teachers uh in our school here, and I've done in counseling with parents, and in every situation there there has to be an adult in the room. And sometimes I think our parents forget that they're supposed to be the adult in the room, and they're expecting their child to just come up with this magical decision of everything that they're supposed to figure out, as opposed to the parents saying, wait, I'm the adult in the room. I'm the one that's supposed to be helping you with this. And sometimes helping a child through um life is gonna be met with friction as that child, especially as they get older, begin to develop their own individuality, and it starts to develop this friction where, well, I don't want to do that. Well, the adult in the room has to be able to push a little harder and say, Okay, but you know, you live in my house, you're 14, you know, you're you're gonna do these things, and and you you can't be afraid of, oh, but they're not gonna like me. No, you just accept that sometimes they're not, and that's okay. But they're gonna know you love them. Whether they like you or not in the moment, they're gonna know you love them. Because what a kid needs more than anything, and I'm I'm sure you've probably taught this many times, what a kid needs more than anything is boundaries and structure. They need to know where they're allowed to be. And when they have no boundaries and structure, it creates chaos, which creates panic, which creates the need in a child's heart to create those boundaries and they don't know how, which just creates more chaos.

SPEAKER_02 23:38

We did an experiment years ago when those uh the feel-good psychiatrists they said we're gonna let the children be free, and they took away the fences on the playground. And the kids all huddled in the middle and didn't do anything. They didn't know how far they could go, they didn't know where the boundary was. They put the fences back and they ran freely within the boundaries.

SPEAKER_00 24:01

Yep. They feel safe with boundaries. And I we teach that to our teachers in our school is you know, when you set the boundaries, your kids are gonna buck against the boundaries. That's what they do. They're gonna test the boundaries, they're gonna see how far you let them go. But whether they can articulate it or not, they're gonna know you care about them. Just like if you if you were to build a fence in your backyard, you're often not building that fence so that your kid can be closed in. You're building that fence so people can't come in to protect them. And it's the same thing in any kind of environment. Setting those boundaries lets that child know kind of deep in their nervous system that this person cares about me, whether they can say it or not.

SPEAKER_02 24:45

Right, and be willing to have some short-term pain for some long-term gain. We have a grandson, Ethan. When Ethan was little, he had a terrible temper. He would bite people. He bit me. Now I never spanked grandchildren. I spanked their parents, and their parents couldn't spank them. They went, I don't spank grandkids. And Ethan was about two years old and he was having an awful tantrum. He bit me on the chest, and I just held him tightly to my chest. And he yelled and he screamed and he kicked. And I said, Ethan, you can do that as long as you want. But I'm bigger than you, I'm stronger than you, and I'm gonna win. And eventually he calmed down. That had little to do with Ethan becoming the tremendous young man he is today. Very tough football player, but tender, sweet, great kid. His parents are responsible for what he is. But the idea there was I don't care if you're upset with me now. I know what's gonna happen in the long term, and I'm not worried about it.

SPEAKER_00 25:47

Yeah. We we have a preschool here in our ministry, and I know there's been several times we've had students like that that throw fits, they kick, they scream, they throw chairs, they bite, they spit, they all of those horrible things. And on more than one occasion, um, you know, our preschool, all of our teachers are are ladies, and sometimes I think it's important that a child hears a man uh speak to them, and it's it's not an indictment against the ladies, but I think it's a it's a picture of God's design of leadership. And I've been called on before to bear hug some of these kids, you know, and I do it lovingly. And I've said those very same words, you can kick as long as you want, but I'm bigger than you, I'm stronger than you, and I'm gonna win. And uh boy, I'll tell you, sometimes those kids can be pretty stubborn, they can go for a while, but you know, what they learn in that moment is not so much, you know, if I come in and I and I scream at them, they're gonna learn that I'm just as unhinged as they are. But if I come in and I just bear hug them and and I just remind them, I love you. I want you to know I love you. And they might be kicking and screaming and spitting all over the place. You keep doing that, I want you to know I love you. They may not hear you audibly, but they're they're they're they're you know, psyche, so to speak, their their person hears you, and they know that you care for them. And we have kids that have been in that environment that they still 12, 13 years later, they'll come back and visit our preschool and they want to see Miss Sarah because they know how much of an impact she had on their life. And it's because we showed love to them in that moment where it would have been easier to just say, get this kid out of here. But sending that kid to the next place isn't gonna solve the problem. We needed to show love, and uh the same thing in parenting, I suppose, right?

SPEAKER_02 27:39

I would say so. And I'm glad you only have that problem in your preschool, not with your deacons.

SPEAKER_00 27:46

And not with my high school kids either. Um, so kind of talk a little bit about faith and values. Uh, a couple questions here, and then I'm gonna do kind of a rapid fire thing, which will be just some really quick question, quick answers, okay? But I think some of these are really important I want to get to. Um, how do you instill faith and values into your children while leading them to make the faith their own, instead of just riding the coattails of mom and dad?

SPEAKER_02 28:16

Teach them to pray and teach them to see God answer prayer. When Carissa was little, she uh we moved right when she's three from a house with an in-ground swimming pool to one that just had a small three-foot-high above-ground pool. And one day she said, Daddy, can we get a swimming pool in the ground? And I had been walking and jogging earlier, and I thought, Lord, I should pray for someone to pray for a new thought king, I should pray for an in-round pool. I thought that's strange, but I did, and Krista said that's what I said. Let's pray about it. So we prayed about it. And some months later, a man that owned a swimming pool company in Georgia drove up from Michigan and put us in an in-round pool that caused.

SPEAKER_00 28:59

Oh my.

SPEAKER_02 29:00

Every time we went out to that pool, we'd say, Why do we have this pool? God gave it to us. They prayed for it. We had a little pet rampant, and the rampant got lost, and Chrissy and Chris were trying to find it. And so Chrissy said, Well, let's pray. And they sat down on the kitchen floor and prayed. And while Chrissy was praying, she heard Chris go, whoa. And the rabbit came out from behind the stove. And Chris just said later, you know what I learned? God can answer your prayer in a long time or right away.

SPEAKER_00 29:30

What a what a great story, and what a great truth for a child to learn that God can answer prayer. And I think sometimes even when um even when maybe it's you know something that that maybe we would deem silly, you know, hey, look what God did and how he answered prayer and letting them see that God does answer prayers. That's good. Thank you for that. Um what did family devotions look like for you and your family? And did it change as your children got older?

SPEAKER_02 30:01

When they were little, we did a couple of things and we acted out Bible stories. And I always had to be Goliath and they'd kill me and cut my head off. I had to be the guy that got beat up by the robbers, and the good Samaritan came and took care of you know. But we would always say, What does that story teach us? David and Goliath thought us that God can help us win. Sometimes we read, I'd read a passage of scripture, and then I'd have nickels or pennies and give them a nickel or penny for every question they answered correctly. And they listen well, they did everything. Um, sometimes we're just driving home from church and we close a time and pray. But we we wanted it to be extremely consistent. I think it's better to have family devotions every day for three to five minutes than it is once a week for an hour and a half.

SPEAKER_03 30:55

He also had a set of questions that he would, you know, go back and forth almost like a catechism. And these were different ones as far as for character building, love, and and he would ask those questions to the girls and the other.

SPEAKER_02 31:13

What does it mean to be honest and tell the truth? What does it mean to obey to do what you're told? When do we obey right away? How do we obey happily and cheerfully? What does it mean to have initiative to see what needs to be done and do it? What does it mean to be responsible to do what you're supposed to without being told? What's it mean to be faithful to do what you're supposed to when you're supposed to? What's it mean to be loyal to stick by your family and friends? Yeah, I wanted to understand those character traits.

SPEAKER_00 31:37

That's good. Good. What is the role of the church in relation to the spiritual leadership of a child versus the role of a parent? What role does the church play?

SPEAKER_02 31:52

Well, God gave children to parents, and he gave churches to everybody. So the church is there to support the parent in their role of raising their child. And I would say to our people, here's a big circle, that's the entire world. Little circle, and that's the Christians, smaller circle of independent Baptist Christians, smaller circle of independent Baptist Christians like us, a smaller circle in our church, and inside that circle there's a God, and that's you and your family. And there's some things you do because it's just your family. But you want a church that is going to be basically supportive of the things that you're teaching your children, and you want a church where you can say to the children that you listen to the preacher and you do what he says. And the wise parent sees the church, has an additional voice to help their children learn truth and does not compete against that voice. Sometimes out of envy, because the kid likes the pastor better than they like mom and dad right now. Sometimes out of uh rebellion, my pastor said uh no teen should have smartphones. And one of the men in our church went home and said, Okay, good, it's gonna be your phone. And then he said, Nah, I'm just kidding. And he made fun of my preacher. Um surprise. One of those kids to get married at a very young age. So you you may not do everything the preacher says, but you never find it if you're a wise parent.

SPEAKER_01 33:28

Right.

SPEAKER_00 33:28

And then a wise pastor recognizes that the family has its own responsibility under God, and he's there to support my my pastor always said the the church is here to reinforce what you enforce. Yeah, and I think that's good. It the church isn't there to make the rules for your family, we're there to to lift you up when you need it, but we're not raising your children. The the church is not responsible. If if you entrust the spiritual leadership of your child to the church, that's that's like saying you only need to eat one meal a week. And that's obviously not true. And so parents need to parent. Uh Deuteronomy 6, 6, and 7 was given to fathers, to parents, not to the church. And so, um, but I do believe the church plays a very important role, but it's a supportive role and it's a blessing. I mean, I know in my in my parenting, I again I've got five kids, and um right now I'm recording this episode. My wife's sitting here with me, and one of our church members took my kids home so we could record this episode. And I fully trust them to do that. I have no problem with that because the church as a whole, uh, we support each other, and I would do the same for that family's children if need be. And I think it's important that I can trust them to know that they're going to treat my children maybe not exactly the same way I would, but they're not gonna let them go watch our rated movies either, you know, and I can trust that. And so I think that's really a very important piece, too. So these last questions should be kind of quick answers, they're kind of rapid-fire questions just to uh um get a get a quick thought. So, and I think I know what you're gonna say at this question, but I'm curious. What is one habit parents should start practicing tomorrow?

SPEAKER_02 35:20

Giving unconditional and frequently expressed to express love to their children.

SPEAKER_00 35:26

That's good. What is one habit that parents should stop today?

SPEAKER_03 35:32

Being sarcastic to their kids.

SPEAKER_00 35:34

That's good. That's good. I I have a sarc I have a sarcastic nature. I've always been that way since I was a kid. And sometimes it just my mouth opens and it comes out. And as soon as that happens, I think, why do I say that? That's that could be so damaging someday, you know. And uh I try I try to curb my tongue because I agree with you. I think it's a it can be a very harmful thing.

SPEAKER_03 35:59

And a lot depends on the timing. You know, we had a lot of fun in our house, but there was a time to be sarcastic, and the kids knew the difference between being sarcastic and fun and being demeaning. Sure.

SPEAKER_00 36:15

That's that's a great point, yeah. Um, what is one thing that parents worry about, but they shouldn't?

SPEAKER_02 36:25

What other people think about how they raise their kids.

SPEAKER_00 36:28

Oh, that's great. That's so great. I know as young parents, especially young parents who were entering the ministry, I was so concerned about I want my kids to be perfect angels because I'm entering the ministry. And the Bible says, you know, that if a man can't rule his own house, how could he rule the church, the house of God? And uh I it made me so nervous. But as time went on, I realized, you know, I need to please God with my parenting. And if other people disagree with my tactics or my methods, okay, that's fine. And uh that was a great lesson to learn. It's very freeing because it can be very um captivating when you're always especially in ministry, because you feel like the whole church is looking at you and and your kids. And when you number one, you start to realize your kids are gonna be kids. And especially in ministry, you have to give your kids space to be kids and uh not expect them to be perfect, because I think that's what maybe drives more ministry kids away from the Lord is that high expectation and that burdensome feeling that they always have to perform all the time, and uh we need to let them be kids and and spend time letting them be kids. Um now the Bible tells us we're not supposed to worry, so I don't want to suggest we should worry about something, but what is something that parents today are not so concerned about, but they should be.

SPEAKER_02 37:59

I know a lot of parents think their kids would never do anything wrong, and they always believe their children. Yes. And they ought to be worried that their kids might be bad and they might lie to them.

SPEAKER_01 38:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:12

I would say in the last 20 years, we've seen a major shift in the education world where it used to be if uh the school called home and said, uh, your child did this, parents almost always sided with the teacher. And they would sit down with the child and say, Why did you do this? Now, nine times out of ten, I'm sitting in a room right now as we're recording this with our principal and our vice principal. And I know they would both nod vigorously when I say this. When you call home to a parent, they say, Well, what did the teacher say? What was the teacher doing? And the teacher's always at fault, and their kids are perfect angels. They would never say that sort of thing. And uh I've I've shown video to parents before, and they say, I that's not true. I didn't just fabricate this AI video of your child. This is really what happened. And uh, but I think that's a great uh great answer to that. Um, other than the Bible, of course, the Bible is the best book to read for any practical advice about life. Are there any specific books out there you would recommend for parents to read?

SPEAKER_02 39:19

I was held by James Dobson's book, Dare to Discipline, and John Rice's book on the family is a classic, and it's excellent.

SPEAKER_01 39:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 39:28

Any others?

SPEAKER_03 39:30

I like, but this isn't a parenting book, but I like Borham's books on philosophy and you know, just the inspirational books on helping me to love God more and inspiring me to be the right kind of person, then I can hopefully transfer that to the children.

SPEAKER_02 39:52

Yeah. FW Borham, U R E H A M. He went to Spurgeon's College, he vested in New Zealand and Australia, and he wrote some beautiful books, a bunch of everlasting hands full on purpose. Um excellent, excellent books.

SPEAKER_00 40:07

Okay. Here's the last question. Uh might not be as quick of an answer, but what is what is one thing that parents are getting dangerously wrong in parenting today? What is a major, I don't want to say failure, but a major miss?

SPEAKER_03 40:24

We have talked about the misses, and I think depending on the church.

SPEAKER_00 40:34

Too much.

SPEAKER_03 40:35

I think I think a lot of people get because parents are busy and they're at work and they're doing this and they're that, they're exhausted. So I think one of the things that the devil will do will say, it'll be all right. You just let your Sunday school teacher take it, let the the pastor, the youth pastor, the principal, they're going to a Christian school, you're putting them in the right things, they've got sports, but you're not taking time as a parent to instill in them a relationship with God. You know, you're giving them the do's and the don'ts, but you're not giving them the knowledge of a relationship. So I think to me, I would think that would be something that we miss.

SPEAKER_00 41:20

That's good. I I heard a statement a long time ago that everything a child is going to learn about God, they're going to learn not from the church, they'll learn from their parents. Would you agree with that?

SPEAKER_02 41:32

Well, probably, but it is as important that your child learn to read the Bible on their own as it is that you have family devotions with them.

SPEAKER_00 41:42

I agreed. Is there a point where your family devotions turn more into check-ins where you're checking in that they're reading on their own?

SPEAKER_02 41:52

Um, we then with ours, we continue to like do the sounds and that, but our daughter, Katie, when she's in the second grade, decided to read the Bible through in a year and kept doing it every year after.

SPEAKER_00 42:04

That's great. That's great. Is there anything that we haven't talked about that you if if you were able to be on the world stage? Now I'm over exaggerating the reach of my podcast at this point, but if you were to speak to every parent in the world, what would you say this is something I need you to know as a parent?

SPEAKER_02 42:26

They conducted a study years ago and they judged children on two things in their family: the amount of discipline and the amount of love. So they came up with four quadrants. Those homes that had high discipline and high love, they called authoritative homes. Those homes that had high discipline and low love, they called authoritarian homes. And the homes with low love and low discipline, they call negligent homes. To no one's surprised, the best kids came from the homes with high love and high discipline. But the second best came from the homes with high love and low discipline. And the worst came not from the negative general homes, but from the ones with high discipline and low love. Because the Bible says the greatest of these is love. It says the sweetness of the lips and grease and learning. So if I were to say anything, be high and discipline and high in love, but never be high and discipline and low in love.

SPEAKER_03 43:39

I would agree with that. And I'd also say, be not weary and well doing. When Carissa was little before Kate was born, I had put her to bed. She'd had we'd had our devotions, she'd had her water, she'd done all of those things. She was in bed, and Renee was gone, and I thought, oh. Oh, I've got a little little time here. And I heard her say, Mommy, and I pretended I didn't hear it. Mommy. And it got louder and louder. Finally, I went in there and I said, Carissa, what do you need? And she said, Oh, mommy, come here. And she says, just get in bed with me. Now, the last thing in the world I wanted to do was get in bed with her when, you know, I mean, I had mounds of laundry to do and all of these things that I thought were so important. I crawled into bed with her and I pulled the covers up and I said, Okay, Carissa, what do you want to do? And I was being weary. And she looked at me and she took my my face in her hands and pulled it to her face. So it was about two inches in front of my face. And she said, Oh, mommy, let's just laugh. And I said, Laugh. She said, Oh, yes, mommy, let's just laugh. And she didn't hear my sarcasm. And I said, Okay. And she went, and and I laughed a little bit more. She laughed a little bit more. Before I knew it, we were both crying. We were laughing so hard and so spontaneous and giving hugs and peals of laughter. And I often thought about that as the girls got older. I thought, you know, I don't remember what was so important that I didn't want to go in there. I was being weary, but I'll never forget those five minutes with her. And it just stuck with me. Oh, mommy, let's just laugh. And so one of the things that I would often say to mothers who are exhausted, don't be weary in well-doing. Redeem the time because it goes so fast.

SPEAKER_01 45:52

Amen. Yeah. That's good.

SPEAKER_00 45:54

Well, I want to say thank you both so much. I know it's been a long day. Uh, Brother Willette, you've been in a conference all day today. And Mrs. Willette, you've been here with us, and and uh it's late tonight. I'm not gonna say what time it is, but it's late. And I just want to say thank you so much for being a part of this today and and and helping. I think this is gonna help a lot of people.

unknown 46:13

Praise God.

SPEAKER_00 46:14

Amen. Thank you so much. Well, this will be the end of our podcast today. Thank you so much for joining us, and we hope to join uh hope you'll join us on the next episode.