Reclaiming the Truth the Patriarchy Tried to Silence with Francesca Raffa

In this episode, Jessa speaks with Francesca Raffa, feminine liberation mentor, intuitive channel, and vocal alchemist, about the feminine path as a spiral of remembering, deconditioning, and embodied reclamation. Together, they explore the wounded maiden, mother wound, dark feminine, womb healing, cyclical wisdom, difficult relationships as initiations, and what it means to return to the body, voice, and feminine truth in a world built on disconnection.

00:00 Introduction to Feminine Liberation

01:59 The Spiral Path of the Feminine

06:14 Relationships as Mirrors for Growth

09:37 The Dynamics of Testing in Love

11:39 The Pendulum Swing of Feminine and Masculine

15:20 Mother Wounds and Their Impact

19:59 The Connection Between Patriarchy and Betrayal

22:23 Navigating Corporate Life as a Woman

29:39 Identity Shifts and Self-Discovery

34:56 The Dark Feminine and Emotional Expression

41:50 Reconnecting with Purpose

50:35 Supporting Women Through Cyclical Intelligence

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Transcript

Introduction to Feminine Liberation

SPEAKER_02 0:00

We have to go through the descent that takes us to those places within ourselves where we hold the deepest pain, the deepest shadows that we've that we've discarded from ourselves. That's where our greatest power lies. The feminine path is really a spiral. I feel like I'm going backwards. It's like we're never going backwards. We're always going forwards, but with newfound awareness. It's not about what you do, it's about who you are, right? It's about the unraveling of finding the core essence of who you are and letting that become louder and magnetic and radiant.

SPEAKER_00 0:39

Francesca Rafa, thank you so much for being here. So I came across your profile kind of synchronistically as I was shifting the direction of the podcast to be more aligned with feminine reclamation. So you are a feminine liberation mentor, intuitive channel, and vocal alchemist. Can you share a little bit more about what is that? What does that look like? And what do you, what do you do?

The Spiral Path of the Feminine

SPEAKER_02 1:06

Yes, that's a great question. Whenever we refer to the feminine, it's always like this, what do you do? And I always like to poise it back to like what it's not about what you do, it's about who you are, right? It's about the unraveling of finding the core essence of who you are and letting that become louder and magnetic and uh radiant. So to answer the question, um, the journey is about the unraveling. And I came back to this core of who I am. And so that is what I support women in is stripping back the conditionings of that which they have learned to be through the generations, through their own family systems, through their culture, and really getting back to the core essence of who they are and what they came here to be. Um, and so through that, we delay. It's a process of like what I like to call embodied delayering. Because it's the feminine, we're always working in the body. We're not going out there, we're not searching for anything because everything we have and need and hold is within ourselves.

SPEAKER_00 2:15

Yeah, I love that. I do want to return to this because I'm really curious to know your journey and how you got into this work. But just to follow this thread that you brought in or how I'm connecting with it, it seems like the spiritual path that a woman walks is exactly related to what you're saying right now. It's this deconditioning and this deconstructing. And it feels like it's very different from the journey a man walks. And I don't know if there's anything you want to speak to about this, just the spiritual path that a woman embarks on.

SPEAKER_02 2:50

Yes. It's funny because when you say this word spiritual path, and path really stands out for me, it's like when you think of a path, you often think it's like a kind of straight line that you're walking, like a path. And the feminine path is really a spiral. Um, and a lot of this awakening for me started with connecting to the symbol of the spiral, having an understanding and having a very deep, for unknown reason why I was so drawn to the spiral, even as a child. I was like always doodling spirals. Um, and now I see it because the feminine path walks in this spiral aspect. And again, it comes back to the point of the spiral is the core of who you are. And then we walk this spiral, we walk around and we are uh uh, you know, like layering ourselves, and then sometimes we have to go backwards on the spiral to find something with new awareness to heal, and then we move back round. So it's it's like almost like we're always weaving webs or walking in, and often people say it's like, yeah, but I feel like I'm going backwards. It's like we're never going backwards, we're always going forwards, but with newfound awareness.

SPEAKER_00 4:01

Do you feel like men experience this? I and maybe it's hard to speak to like a man's experience, but just from what you've observed, like that the difference, I feel like there is one.

SPEAKER_02 4:15

I guess I'm gonna speak from the experience of when I have worked with men and how um I present the feminine work to them, right? So that they understand it. Because men require um a lot more of a logical conceptual understanding of a process to be able to feel safe to go into it. Um, whereas, and and I'm not saying that's not the same for all women, because there's a lot of women that also require this because we are so conditioned from the masculine way. Um, but then when we start you know going back into the roots, we remember. But from a man's perspective, it's almost like they don't have the easy accessible um uh like grasp as women do. Like we are so deeply connected to the nature's cycles within our own cycles that we move through with menstruation. And men, they don't have that, right? So on their aspect, they have to have more of a logical conceptual understanding of something first, and then they have to go into an experience. I often find that a lot of men um are more drawn to plant medicine to be able to touch that kind of experience that women can access naturally when we're on our bleed, for example, yeah, that when we're in our void state, when we're in and out of consciousness naturally.

SPEAKER_00 5:36

Yeah, that's interesting. That really resonates. I never thought about it that way, but yeah, I could see that with the plants, with plant medicine with men, because women just naturally have a way of tapping in. I mean, and it seems like there's this, there's the biological component, like being in a woman's body and just being connected to cyclical intelligence, but then also the conditioning, right? There's that piece as well that men aren't conditioned to, you know, embrace their feminine in that way. As so it seems like a combination of both things.

Relationships as Mirrors for Growth

SPEAKER_02 6:12

Yeah, absolutely. There's that sense of um for men, it's the emotion, accessing their emotions are weakness, and it's and that's what we are relearning now, right? That actually our emotions are our own navigation to understanding how we move and operate uh in this in this world.

SPEAKER_00 6:32

Thank you for sharing that. So when I was reading your Instagram um when I first came across your profile, you had you had something about moving through difficult relationships and a journey with substances. And that really landed for me personally. I feel like it's an entry point for women, like almost like this arc that women go through is difficult relationships. I don't think I've met a woman who hasn't gone through a relationship with a man who's kind of like narcissistic. I don't know if you're familiar with the um the term bluebeard. It's like that inner predator, it's like this mythological story or archetype. And it's like it brings women into their feminine maturity. They wake up to the um naivete. I always say, I always think I'd never say that word right. Naivet, it's always weird. Um, but they're kind of like moving away from the shadow expression of the maiden. And so, yeah, how does this all of this land for you?

The Dynamics of Testing in Love

SPEAKER_02 7:33

Oh, so you're speaking, it's just like I'm getting such a whew in my in my chest, right? Because it's true, there is this initiation that uh one must have the relationship to be the mirror that takes us takes us back into this um where our attachments uh or where our abandonments lie within love. You know, and I feel uh there is so many layers to this and there's and and and spirals, but of course, when we when we um are trying to come into a space of inner union within ourselves, uh then there is the mirrors that we are met with, you know, and I do believe everyone that comes into our life is here to teach us, show us, and reveal something more about ourselves. Everyone is a mirror. And so these relationships, um, for me personally, what happened was I was met with this mirror that was showing me all of the ways that I was abusing myself through through this physical uh emotional abuse, you know. But those were all, that's what was all going on within me, how I emotionally, you know, self-betrayal, the self-abandonment, uh, the the way that I was so uh deeply attached and needing um love, right? Because I didn't know or I couldn't access the source of love that is within me. You know, so that was the journey, is like that showed me the the amount of abuse I was moving through within myself, and then you know, I break free from that, and then I'm met with uh another mirror, unconditional love. And we often see this within a woman's journey that they're they're in this really uh toxic dynamic and they and they they finally break away, and then it's like they're met with um with someone else that comes in who's showing them a completely different side, which is also part of you, right? It's like they're almost the other side of you. And it's interesting because within that relationship, I kind of turned into the abuser because I didn't believe. I didn't believe I knew it's all I knew, love, abuse, right? Love, hate, that the push-pull um dynamics that we move through, the anxious, avoidant or the you know, um the anxious, yeah, the anxious or avoidant attachment styles, as we know. And um yeah, when I was met with an unconditional love, my whole system was like, no, this can't be I have to test every single part. There's another thing I want to talk about, is the feminine testing. How how the feminine tests in love. He's saying what in such subtle ways. Yeah, in such subtle ways, you know, we're we're looking for devotion. We're looking for this sense of commitment and devotion. So um, particularly in that relationship, let's let's put it that way, is the ways I would test would be how committed are you to this? How how much of we can you hold, right? How much of this emotional chaos can you actually hold, right? Because that's what that's what we are, that's the the polarity aspect that we require. Um, and so that allows us to be in our safest, fullest expression, and that's where we access um all of the information from the other worlds, right? Because the feminine's role is really to be the receiver of everything. They don't necessarily have um, and and then, and then the masculine aspect, and of course we have this within ourselves, but the masculine um representation is to take all that we're receiving and structure it into the mental conceptualization so that it can be shared, right? These are the teachings. And of course we have that all within, but um that is the polarity dynamic.

The Pendulum Swing of Feminine and Masculine

SPEAKER_00 11:32

So it's kind of like the masculine is shaping what is emerging in real time. And in a sense, it's like the feminine is the how I see it is like the feminine is always rooted in in truth. Like she brings forth what is alive, which requires the masculine's trust in her direct experience. I often find that obviously in the expression of the masculine today, where it's it's come it's a pr it's oppressive and it's dismissive of the feminine's experience. And so it creates a lot of distortion in the field. I'm curious how you see that happening internally and and then reflected externally, if that makes sense. Yeah.

Mother Wounds and Their Impact

SPEAKER_02 12:20

Yeah, because I sometimes refer to this um as the pendulum swing. So so explain that a little bit more. Um and from what I've experienced on my journey, but also with many women that I'm supporting, it's like when there's this shift of something that is awakening, um, we go into this what I call the pendulum swing where we're like we fall far into the feminine, right? Because we're like, okay, now we're giving space to our emotions. Oh wow, now there's all this that we need to move through that I could never see before. And now I have the space, now I have the access. Now okay, I'm going into my body, I can feel the safety. And then only when there's this like real rooting, and as you mentioned there, the rooting in the truth, right? The rooting of the in the heart and the womb and the truth of who you are, or at the core of who you are, is like then you sort of swing back into the middle and it starts to begin to heal the inner masculine. Um, and when we refer to like the inner masculine and the inner feminine, our first point of reference to these, the inner masculine and the inner feminine, is the the mother and the father, your your mother and father. So often the time to be able to really be in this like union creation energy is we we swing to the feminine, we work through the mother wombs. It's like we look at the the the ways in which the mother shaped us. And that's a really big part of my journey as well, that the the aspect of when being so disconnected from from my physical mother and how that relates to then being disconnected to the earth, of course. But then we're swinging all the way onto that side of the feminine, we're really working there, and then we're meeting ourselves in the middle, and then it comes, only then it comes to be able to uh, okay, how can I now strengthen or or um rebind the relationship with the inner masculine who has been operating from a space that has been distorted by society. Um so then it's like we relearn how the our own inner masculine can support the inner feminine, right? When you're so how I relate to it is our inner feminine is like the passion and the fuel of our um of our desires, right? She has all of the access to that. And then our inner masculine can come in and support to help structure that creation. And it's so important that we have that inner relationship because for so long, you know, when when I'm when we're when we're when we're looking at things from the external and I'm having uh difficult relationships with men, that is also a reflection of how I distrust or shame my own inner masculine, right? Because I have done, I've shamed the inner masculine because I used to be like, no, that's so direct. Oh, you're so strict, oh you're, you know, like almost um almost like it was like killing my vibe, you know, because like the feminine vibes just wants to be free. But we cannot have freedom without that sense of responsibility.

SPEAKER_00 15:31

Sorry, I mute myself sometimes when I like shift in my seat because I feel like my microphone picks up everything. Um, but thank you for saying that. That's really important. I'm gonna go back a little bit to what you shared because it feels like there's there's something there that I'd love to hear if you're open if you're willing, about your relationship with your mom and how that relates to the disconnection and the relationship you had with the earth. I think a lot of people can relate um and had physically or I'm sorry, emotionally absent mothers. Exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:07

So that's exactly how I experienced it. Um the mother was always felt like a barrier and a block. And I always felt like when I was younger, that part of my role, you know, as you do as a child, kind of like I believed that my role was to save her. And the mother-daughter dynamic is really interesting because what I sensed and felt from a really young age is that when my mum would hug me, she was embracing me as she did her own inner child. And so when I would receive a hug from her, all I felt was pain. Yeah, because she hadn't she hadn't done her her work with the inner child and I was that representation. So she so it was almost like a smothering and also uh a triggering, right? Because um it's like I don't I want to I want to hold you so tight because I because she didn't have that, you know, and and also when you look back at at the the how the mother wound gets perpetuated and why, because that really stems from the patriarchy and the disconnect from the feminine in the first place. So um the the the betrayal that was felt along my mother line um was something I have been healing, right? This is this is so so deep. But it started with the betrayal I felt from my own mother. I felt like I was unable to uh to to come to her for any kind of emotional support. It always felt like I had to um be the hyper-independent one, you know, to be the strong one, almost be her mother, right? And I think so many of us can can relate to that, like seeing the shattering of your own mother on an emotional level and feeling like you have to be their mother, uh, and that dynamic is so awkward. And then it's awkward, I say awkward, but it's like it's just a strange dynamic. And then every time you're trying to be yourself, it triggers uh your mother because they didn't fulfill or have the ability to fulfill so much of their own life or desires that they that they wanted. So it creates this tension and it's often an unspoken tension. And I lived that for many years. It's this unspoken tension where if I was ever in my joy, it would upset her, or if I was ever in pain, it was too much for her to meet because she hadn't touched the depth of her own pain. So it was like every kind of emotion had to be, had to be hidden.

SPEAKER_00 18:43

Right. And what's and it's very confusing, right? Because it's it's happening really, it's like on a subtle level. Like we're our body is responding to it, our nervous system is responding to it, but when we're going through it, usually we don't understand it yet. Like, why does it feel like this? I don't know if you felt this way, but I'm resonating with everything you're saying. And um, it's almost like a repulsion. Like a like I I felt like almost repulsed, and I and that's such a strange thing to experience with your own mother and not know why.

SPEAKER_01 19:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:18

Yeah. It's and it it can be a journey into coming into understanding of like the dynamics and the patterns that were playing out, and almost learning that it's not personal because it can feel like what is happening, and it's just very confusing. And you mentioned the betrayal wound in patriarchy, and I'm curious how you see that being connected.

The Connection Between Patriarchy and Betrayal

SPEAKER_02 19:43

I see it being connected because um the the patriarchal systems have created this um a way in which women feel the need to compete. And that even means within mother-daughter, right? But within the systems within within corporates is women are operating from a place of competing because we're always never made to feel good enough. So there is this element that we have to. I mean, I used to work in corporate and it was a very male-dominated um space. So I understand uh how it how it felt to feel like I needed to prove myself even more, work even harder, uh, take on more, never say no, right? It's like all of this, like, yeah, I've got it, I've got it, I can do it, I can do it, without even listening to the inner rhythm of the body. It's like a surviv, it's almost like a surviv, a really deep-rooted survival pattern in the nervous system that goes, if I don't take on and I don't do all of these things, then I will not survive. I will not belong. And it comes back to the wounds of belonging and love and being accepted into the tribe. And um that's technically our tribe that's been created within patriarchal societies is that. So women are in this state of overriding their own systems to make sure they are at that same level, but our bodies are not meant to operate in the same way that men can keep that consistency of energy levels all throughout the month. We don't have that, and there's reasons for that.

SPEAKER_00 21:30

Would you like to say a little more about the reasons for that?

Navigating Corporate Life as a Woman

SPEAKER_02 21:34

Yeah, there's reasons for that because our cycle is pure medicine. Our cycles are when we when we connect with it in that way, we know when we have the most energy during our ovulation, and we know that that is our time of blooming and putting ourselves out there. Then we know that when we go into the the um luteol is when we can start to reflect. reflect on our entire um past cycle and start to see where we crossed boundaries, where what what's actually okay, did that work? Did that not work? Right. It's our reflection period. And then when we bleed, we allow ourselves to fully release. But when we are bleeding, we're in the void state, which is again is the time where we have the deepest connection to source and we can receive truth and deeper insights to then start again when it's follicular and we start to be in the ideas, the spring energy of okay, I can do it all and then we ovulate and we and it's that process. And it's so important that we have connection to that because it's always showing us you know every month, every week is just showing us um it's not about oh I didn't I did bad that month you know it's not about shaming the self or going no it it's just supporting how can we be the most balanced a balanced do you think do you think it's possible to exist in a corporate world and stay connected to those cycles.

SPEAKER_00 23:15

I work with women and only women and I have a lot of women that are um in corporate positions. And sometimes I my instinct is to say no. And I know that that's like a big uh the kind of like a bold claim like but I I I don't know my instinct is to say that it's not possible. What do you think?

SPEAKER_02 23:39

I've been asked this question before on a podcast. Oh you do and it's and and it's a question where I also kind of go like I want to say yes and I want to say that we are um in more of a world now where this is spoken about so much more and that there is an understanding however yet I understand the demands I understand the demands that come with corporate. And if you're uh fortunate enough to be in a role where you get to manage your schedule then of course you can book in your meetings when you're ovulating and you can try your best ultimate best to structure it. But what we can do and if we do have certain control over managing our things is is yeah if we can put something with with do something for a week and book in those meetings or times where you need to be seen or then do that.

SPEAKER_00 24:36

But if it isn't the case it's challenging really it's challenging yeah there it requires flexibility that not many people have in that world unless you're in a position where like you mentioned you are in control of your schedule. Yeah I don't see how it's possible if you're not because you're at somebody's beck and call yeah you know there's there's um there's like a lack of agency.

SPEAKER_02 25:08

Yeah and I feel like the only the only way that maybe this can change is the more we speak about the importance of this and how if that was honored within um corporate companies and if really was spoken about and everyone was operating and moving towards their own inner rhythms, then all everyone would benefit so much more, right? The company would probably even make more money, right? If we're all moving at the rhythms that suit us and are understanding each other in that way.

SPEAKER_00 25:37

I mean that's what that's what we're really here to to to bring back break that's how we're supposed to to operate to bring back harmony and balance into all of the ecosystems including um big corporate companies because it's not about it's not about demolishing this it's about how can we live in our modern world with the ancient wisdom that we know and really bridge it do you think that there would have to be a a rebuilding of the systems that we live in I mean I know we're we're speaking about it in terms of maybe if we continue to talk about this, then corporations will maybe make more space for this for women to have more agency or whatever. Is it is it possible it's a part of me wants to say that big corporations would have to collapse in order for there to really be space for the feminine way of being I don't know what do you think I do feel like we're seeing many collapses.

SPEAKER_02 26:45

Yeah and it is I feel like something is happening on so many levels we can all feel it which is why we're having this conversation right now which is why women are becoming more um aware and awake to these questions of there has to be another way like and the younger generations I'm seeing that so clearly you know it's like the Gen Zs we're talking you know they just have like a whole beautiful different way of being which is they just don't understand the suffering. You know it's like why would we suffer? And and I really love to have that reflection because it's always reminding me it's like how do we put our needs first even if I'm in a even if I'm in a in a corporate company and even if I'm in these systems yes but how can I still ensure I'm I'm getting my my needs are met and how can that be communicated in a way to whoever whoever is running this that if you know these are my skills and I am and it's about owning again it's about owning who we are again coming into that sense of power it's like I know my value here and I know my value would be even more detrimental if I was able you know if I am honoring what I need to honor, which is myself.

SPEAKER_00 28:01

So what did this look like for you practically because you were in a corporate setting right for you to start honoring your needs and then how did that play out in terms of like did you weave like were you able to meet your needs while still in that setting well it's really interesting you say that because um what what happened to me as to why I left the corporate role was actually um something quite sexist.

Identity Shifts and Self-Discovery

SPEAKER_02 28:30

Right as I mentioned I was in a very male male dominated environment and they actually um said that I had to compete against the two other women within our roles because there weren't many women there's only three of us had to compete against the other women for a managerial position. And that was when I straight away was just like I'm not going to do that because you have no problem promoting um the men in the company just like that. But when it came to the women it's like they couldn't make a decision right there wasn't there wasn't a clear understanding of who who could take the role so we had to do again being put into this place of doing extra work of extra proving and so I just completely said no that's my outright and I think from that moment I was uh I that's when I started understanding things a little bit differently and also after I left that company I didn't have anything else lined up you know I was just so there was a fire in my belly that was just like no like how could you possibly so I just left and then um I was in many many many interviews after that and I started noticing something uh about myself these interview processes were showing me how I was going to interviews and I knew exactly what the interviewer wanted me to be and to say and I just started showing up exactly as that to get the job. And then I would come home crying because I was like what was that? Like I wasn't even being authentic. I just knew what they needed and I showed and presented myself in a way to meet what they needed. And it and it started to show me all of the masks that I was that I was putting on. And it was such a really incredible process right to go through. I think I went to about 40 interviews um and I was like I can't believe that I can just go in at least 40 yeah and it's like I just kept putting myself through it. I just kept going and I would get all of the jobs but and then and then I was like had to say no and then I would was going through this internal battle of um you know being unintegral because I was showing myself in this way that I wanted the job and then I didn't really want the job you know so it was literally like putting on the mask coming home taking off the mask being in truth coming being the clown and I was like who who is this person? And that's when I started those deeper questionings of like how can I do that? Who am I? If I can who who and it really took me into that into this um space and I I did get another job and it was in an office and I was there for two weeks and then I said that's it I'm not doing I quit yeah and I said even without having a plan yeah I I quit I said I'm never gonna work in an office again and I I was starting a tea company though back then and it was called Spiral Tea funny enough but the tea in itself was what took me back to the feminine because I was working with the uh I was working with herbs and it was a deeper remembrance you know like the on a lineage level like where we all come from every single woman like it's in our blood that we know we have you know back in our line a um a herbalist. Were you able to support yourself with the T for movie Yeah so I quit um an actual full-time position and I just took on temp roles where it didn't feel like I had a strong commitment to who I was working for. So on a mental front I was disconnected. So I just turned up did what I needed to do and I left but I wasn't I didn't have this like strong identity to the role anymore. So that's what started shifting for me. I didn't it was not like before when I was in the corporate it was like oh this is who I am I am the my role right I'm a property agent because that's what I did. I worked in property I was like I'm a property agent. So I just walk around I'm a property agent but but then when I was working for a temp role I was like it's a temporal and I am creating a tea business.

SPEAKER_00 32:40

Like I am this is what yeah so it was a different yeah you loosen that identity that you had an attachment to when we have an identity shift that's when everything begins to change. But sometimes it's a slow process. It doesn't happen all at once obviously but what you said about your interviews and then basically I thought of like a chameleon right but this is like the almost magical um trait or quality to this is like the the the way that a woman can attune to her environment. It's it's so intuitive it's like you just became what other people wanted you to be and obviously like that's that's self-abandoning but there's also like this magical quality here as well and like what that could look like if we're using it in service to ourselves instead of against ourselves.

The Dark Feminine and Emotional Expression

SPEAKER_02 33:36

I love that. Yeah absolutely and I think that's what I started seeing right which is why I was so cool to starting my own and I think whenever someone starts their own company that in itself is like an initiation because you start to have to take you have to start to uh build on so many of your own qualities and start to like let them take up space. But I think that's what was going through my head I was like okay if I have this kind of ability and I'm gonna work for a company and I'm going to sell this or I'm gonna do this, why can't I do that for myself? If I put all of that energy I would be putting into supporting that then I'm gonna just bring it back to myself and you know it's so it's like also all those interviews showed me like qualities about myself but in a flipped in a flipped way. And that's I think I love that you just touched on you know the comedian aspect because that is one of the amazing things about the feminine when we start to uh know that we have access to all of these different archetypal energies and that we can allow each one to come out and play when whenever we want and then it comes back to life is a game. How can we how can we play within this game? And we need these archetypes we need to feel the safety for each one to come out not but not being disconnected from our center and core because we know who we are at our core and we have the backbone and then everything gets to just take its place and its play. Again coming back to how do we be in the modern world knowing who we are. But the difference is is before you're operating from a place where you feel like you didn't have a choice but when you go through this process you're like okay I can choose that that I'm choosing your conscious so you're choosing to be that right now okay I'm aware and this is my choice. And that in itself is sovereignty. It's when you know and you have awareness of your own choice.

SPEAKER_00 35:35

Mm-hmm What archetype do you feel women are most stuck in collectively like the shadow the wounded maiden the wounded maiden.

SPEAKER_02 35:47

Yeah which is not a sovereign space to be and I see a lot I see a lot of men stuck in the wounded maiden as well especially because within a generational bracket a lot of men have been brought up by single mothers and have not had a strong father role and have also learned to shame the inner masculine. So I also see a lot of men these days especially maybe certain age groups I don't know but have operating from this wounded maiden. And the wounded maiden is the archetype where you are seeking love outside of yourself. You're seeking validation outside of yourself and you will go to great lengths right which means self-abandonment self-betrayal go to all of the lengths because your main attachment is to secure love and connection outside of yourself.

SPEAKER_00 36:43

Yeah I love that you said that about men because it seems like there are more and more men people pleasing than ever before. I think it's Teal Swan maybe that talks about how it's like that swing of the pendulum, right? Like how some this the feminist movement came with like a lot of positives and benefits, but like you know we often have to swing the pendulum to the other side in order for there to be change but we're doing that in a way that now men are becoming like demasculated and they're not initiating. They're not stepping into their power and that can look like people pleasing like almost like they're afraid of it. They're afraid of their own power they're afraid of making choices and exercising agency. And I think a lot of the times I see this as a pattern too like with men that that are in that um there they had a mother that was very controlling and smothering. So it's like they did the mother didn't give the man the boy space to make choices and to feel into his power yeah and then on unconsciously they are constantly seeking the mother in relationships.

SPEAKER_02 38:00

Yeah they're seeking out the mother um which is what we see a lot of and again going back to the wounded maiden it's the wounded maiden uh struggles to um meet all of the different layers of emotion right especially the ones that are most demonized like their anger and um even the shame right and it's like that that that is the fall of or the story I'm gonna bring in the mythology now of Inana or Persephone the wounded maiden um to start and this is what we call when we work in the feminine lens we have to go through the descent that takes us to those places within ourselves where we hold the deepest pain where we hold uh the the the deepest shadows that we've that we've discarded from ourselves but we all have to do that and there is the biggest fear to that's what's that's what's been feared because that's where our greatest power lies and for both men and women especially now right especially now I I think there is a connection issue because like I literally missed the last like two sentences you said it kind of like went in and out so and I feel like it was important. So if you don't mind can you repeat that I I feel like I was saying that that the journey of Inanna um regarding the feminine of going into the descent where we have to access our deepest pain and our deepest wounds because that's where our greatest power lies and it's a journey that both men and women must go on.

SPEAKER_00 39:44

Mm-hmm great I love this this is a really good in for this conversation. So I I the language that I'm using and I'm curious what your language is the dark feminine like this is kind of our journey into the dark feminine where we have suppressed things like rage or anger and boundaries and our ability to protect ourselves in order to feel the full spectrum of our emotions we have to reconnect with that what I'm calling the dark feminine and that's the descent right into like this journey into the underworld. How do you see it? How do you see the dark feminine or maybe you have another like archetype or word for this.

Reconnecting with Purpose

SPEAKER_02 40:27

I'm curious your perspective yeah I would say the dark feminine as well I would call her the dark feminine or the dark mother that uh takes us again talking about how I shared at the beginning around the delayering it's about the delayering and really allowing ourselves to access the times of uh anger that got suppressed or the periods of pain that we didn't have a safety um or or in the right conditions to be able to feel that and enter into those places. And why we need to go there for example I'll share from my from my journey my I could never uh project my voice okay so I could never scream I'd have lots of recurring throat issues where I would lose my voice as a teenager especially and the deeper I went on the journey within the womb right when we go down into the depths of the the womb and the descent there and we and that's where our our emotion a connection to our emotions lie. So accessing the anger that was there that I was unable to fully understand as a child all that you were absorbing as a child and feeling and everything in your environment in your home environment those things around you what you can witness that you cannot make sense of yet right and it's still there and it's still in the body and it's still being held and when I allowed myself to go to that dark depth and liberate so much tightness and tension and numbness that was in the womb that's the womb awakening was what activated and opened the throat and it's interesting because I say right our medicine lies in that which we resist and our medicine lies in that which is often the the most challenging so I couldn't I couldn't speak and and now I heal with the voice right now is I'm channeling through the voice. What did that look like for you and did you go in intentionally like how like how did that kind of unfold um and what did it look like when you were reconnecting with that like were you like like screaming or like you know really expressing what need what was needing to be moved it's it's interesting because you know when I'm referring to the journey I it's hard to talk about it linearly because it's not because each time I was understanding a new layer but I'll try to explain it in the most simplest way but uh and maybe many women can relate to this and actually we're seeing an uprise in endrometriosis at the moment and fibroids from from younger ages and I used to suffer immensely from menstrual pain from the starting point of my menses around 13 years old I would be three days three days a week sorry three days a month um I'd be vomiting and I would have to come off school right so it was really really severe um and then of course I went on the pill because that's what we get told right the gynecologist comes in she goes well go on the pill and then I was hemorrhaging for uh eight months and I was so ashamed and embarrassed and I didn't tell anyone I just was like bleeding and I, you know just kept it to myself and kept taking the pill because that's what the doctor told me to take the pill. Then when I when I um I well actually there's a very important point I really want to touch on here because this is also part of my awakening and some women here will probably uh relate to this and if this happened to them. But when I had I actually came off the pill and then I fell pregnant. And I had an abortion, but it was that process of potentially becoming a mother that awakened something in me that went, Well, how could I mother a child if I can't mother myself? And then after that process I went back on contraception and it was a different contraception. It was the implant and uh my body again went through so many different changes. I was having so much water weight. And then eventually I came off everything and my uh pain returned. I mean I always had pain still even on contraception it just subsided a little bit but there was still always strong pain. But then when I came off and I was deepening into this journey and I was the pain was would come back. But there was one pivotal moment where I really remember it and this is to answer your question like what was that turning point? Um I was I had just had enough and I kind of was like already into this work a bit a little bit you know I was I was with the herbs and I was starting to do more meditation and I was the my awareness was there and I was remember the day I was in so much deep pain and I was just that I would scream with pain you know and I would create pain in different parts of my body so it would move away from just all that one area where the womb was. But this particular day I thought you know what I'm going to do something different. I'm gonna sit and lay down and I'm gonna put my hands there and I'm going to say I'm hearing you I'm I'm I love and I just started repeating I love you I'm listening um just all of this like just started coming out and then I remember kind of like it feeling like it was softening and I thought okay okay this is okay we're we're creating a relationship whereas before it was shame right like oh no not that time of the month again and even that comes from the mother like the mother kind of disregarding that you're on your bleed like oh yeah you know it's just it's just you're on and you kind of get spoken to like that right it's like oh yeah you know just you're on your bleed it's okay um so so I took it into my own hands. I'm starting to build this relationship and then I went to the toilet and then I had this blackout because I was in so much pain and then I just had this like it was softening but I went into this blackout and I remember seeing this black tunnel and then all I kept hearing was this is where your medicine lies this is where your medicine lies this is what you're here to teach. And I was like in this frenzy and I came out and then it was like from that day I just like got every single possible book I could on like womb healing on on all of it. Right. And I was just deep into the reading material and yeah and and who I could support me with anything to do with womb healing because I didn't even know that was a thing. Most women don't know that's a thing, right?

SPEAKER_00 47:00

Yeah. Let me know if this is how you see it or relate to it but it almost feels like that happened because you literally just listened to it finally you were like okay I'm gonna stop pushing you away and just listen to what's here. Yeah. And then you received a really important message. About your purpose. Because it's all connected. Yeah thank you for sharing that and also about the abortion too because I imagine that was such a scary experience and nowadays because of the current state of you know policing and controlling women's bodies I know w a lot of women feel so much shame around abortions and so thank you for um sharing that and just being a safe space for that. Why do you think you had a really hard um experience with your period some women don't and I'm just curious how you see that because like I was severely disconnected with with my body with my femininity like all of the things that we've been talking about relating to but my I never had a I never had period pain. Like I never suffered with my menstrual cycle it was always like 28 days on the clock didn't really never really had cramps and I just sometimes I wonder why I don't know if you have any thoughts or ideas about that.

SPEAKER_02 48:29

I feel like there's many things that can contribute to um to to to hormonal imbalance because ultimately it's hormonal imbalance and there's many things that we can do right is we're are we are exercising regularly like right I wasn't a regular exerciser for simple things. And also it can be around the foods that you eat are you really eating the right foods for your body um that's the more I wasn't I wasn't doing anything my horror my hor my nervous system was so dysregulated. I was processing so much trauma like wasn't like everything was off but for some reason my period was just like never an issue and so I find that strange like that's beautiful I guess so but maybe maybe I don't know for me there was an inner rejection of the feminine a deep inner rejection of the feminine because I felt rejected by my mother and she held that with her mother and there was a such a strong there was you know even my mum had terrible periods her mum did right that was that was also a generational so there's many factors because it's I almost feel like I kind of came in to break that cycle of the painful periods you know because my mum would just go through it and she would always just say to me oh yeah I had that too and her grandmother like my grandmother her mother would do the same thing.

Supporting Women Through Cyclical Intelligence

SPEAKER_00 49:54

Oh yeah I you know I had that too no one ever stops to question okay but what if we what if we don't have that you know maybe this is not okay to it's just like why is this not okay to have that yeah so it's in it's interesting because I you know painful periods are not I don't know if I want to use the word normal but like they don't have to be painful and it it's a sign and a symbol that something is happening that needs your attention do you would you say you agree with that yeah and I feel like also from my aspect um the abuse element right was also speaking loud like I had there was so much that needed clearing there because I abused my body hugely yeah see this is I'm gonna have to like research this because for some reason I'm like my mind is gripping it wants to understand the ancestral trauma that was passed down through my lineage so much sexual abuse. I don't have maybe it came through that's okay.

SPEAKER_02 51:06

Maybe it came through and that's okay yeah but maybe it came through in other ways you have an offering I cannot remember what it's called but I was looking at your website do you want to say something about that has to do with the womb and I think cyclical intelligence is that right I have a few offerings um I have the the from from fear to feminine freedom which maybe would be more suitable for your audience because it's really women that are uh awakening to wanting to reconnect with their womb understand their body's senses and their emotions and how to use it as their own medicine and um and I say from fear to feminine freedom because it's like we are eradicating the fear of the unknown the fear of um the darkness and we're entering into that which is the awakening of the feminine because we go into all of the shadow we go there we go there so we can alchemize it which is what the feminine does so beautifully and naturally how do you support women in that journey like what would that look like so I work with the embodied delayering so I am an embodiment coach so everything that we move through is through our body's wisdom. So it's every time we are speaking we are coming away from the thoughts of the mind of what the the the mind's patterning is and we're listening to how our body is responding to what we're moving through. So where are the patterns lying in the body? And we do something that's unraveling um so when we find where a block is felt you know it's the in the process we're attuning to our body sensations. Like when we're working with difficult emotions we start to feel where they are actually residing in the body and we go there and we give its uh the the full um expression that it needs we give it its maybe even an archetype we give it a shape or we give it its um expression so that it can move something that could have been stuck for years, right? We give it its space to move um and sometimes I also bring in um the shamanic aspect and and support the clearing through sound frequency because sounds will help break up um stagnant emotion to help move it and flow. So it's kind of a combination between that and the shamanic work all in one but we we work with uh yeah deep deep uh patterns so belief systems and our patterns to help rewire and reshape those when you say shamanic um you're speaking about like a sound sound journeying is that how you're relating to so shamanic is so vast and but I love to kind of bring the fact that shamanic work is feminine work. It's it's it's the of the earth. So we we work with and we meet exactly what is needed in that moment. We're not trying to we're not detectives and we're going we're meeting with what you are coming to in that moment and finding the root of where that is like because there's always everything is interwined and interconnected. And then the shamanic work can often bring in the journeys of the soul journey. So we might go into to bringing in soul fragments or soul parts from um this lifetime but also past lives and also ancestral healing as well. So it's kind of a huge multidimensional approach really to to transformation.

SPEAKER_00 54:35

Yeah so I'm a therapist and are you familiar with internal family systems? Yes the family like this is like what shamans have been doing like it's parts it's parts work is it's shamanism it's soul retrieval. So it's just yeah um so so so powerful like that work is so powerful.

SPEAKER_02 54:56

Yeah it's it bypasses the logical mind you know and goes straight to the root yeah exactly um any other offerings or anything else that you'd like to share? Yeah I would love to share that um you know for magical amazing medicine women that are here navigating how to um or have already woken to the feminine and they're you know starting their navigation in this world through this lens I have a uh another offering called Ignite which supports in your in your navigation because sometimes when we awaken in this way there's like we start to see things so differently uh and it and don't understand how how to be in the world anymore and I often see and I went through this myself the experience of like wanting to hermit or isolate and I really want to support women to navigate um everyday everyday life through helping them understand or make sense of what they're going through to really just be the mirror from from where I've journeyed. I love that what is that what does that look like is it community um no ignite is um is still one-to-one we we would meet every week and it's like a deeper container yeah so both containers okay cool awesome and so I'll link everything below in the show notes any anything else you'd like to leave us with I would love to leave everyone with one of my mottos hold the vision and ride the waves this is really this has really just kept me going in everything because ride the emotional waves but never lose sight of the vision.

SPEAKER_00 56:48

Yeah it's almost like the vision becomes the anchor yeah and in such an uncertain world we must be the anchor yes I love that thank you so much um you really do embody your work I can feel that from you and I really appreciate it thank you so thank you Francesca for this conversation thank you for the invitation