Feminine Magic, Motherhood & Reclaiming Your Voice with Alicia Corey

In this episode, Jessa sits down with Alicia Corey to explore feminine magic, motherhood, the good girl archetype, and what it means to come home to yourself after years of self-abandonment.

Alicia shares her traumatic entry into motherhood after giving birth prematurely while living on a remote island in Alaska, and how years later she realized how much of herself she had lost in the process of becoming “the good girl,” “the good wife,” and “the capable woman.”

As a mother to a child with special needs, a partner navigating long absences, a corporate change consultant, and the creator of the Labor of Love retreat in Northern California, Alicia brings a deeply embodied understanding of resilience, emotional safety, feminine intuition, and the invisible labor women carry.

Together, they explore emotional suppression, feminine perception, mothering sensitive children, reconnecting with anger and truth, and creating safe spaces where women can finally hear themselves again.

00:00 The Journey into Motherhood

07:47 Identity Shift and Self-Rediscovery

12:21 Creating the Labor of Love Retreat

17:38 The Importance of Safety in Truth

20:25 Navigating Corporate Life as a Sensitive Being

29:17 Emotional Expression in Parenting

34:45 The Dynamics of Mother-Daughter Relationships

37:03 The Mother Archetype and Its Expression

38:37 Navigating Motherhood: Challenges and Realities

43:09 The Depth of Emotions: Personal and Ancestral Grief

45:16 The Importance of Safety in Emotional Expression

47:14 Revisiting Childhood Emotions and Family Dynamics

48:43 Trusting Intuition in Relationships

51:01 Mentorship and Empowering Women in the Workplace

52:32 Healing and Changing Generational Patterns

55:58 Living Life as a Labor of Love

🔮 Connect with Alicia Corey
🌐 Website:  https://alicia-corey.mykajabi.com/5d-journeys-labor-of-love-retreat
📸 Instagram: @asrcorey

👽 Connect with Jessa
📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thejessaverse/

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By listening to this show, you agree that the host and guests are not responsible for any decisions made or actions taken based on the information provided. Please always consult with a qualified professional regarding your specific health or psychological needs. The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed by guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of Jessa Bruno or the Return to Weird Podcast. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

I was always a good girl. Like I was a great student. I was a good child. I just did the right thing. I became a great employee. All of the things, right? I was performing for the expectations of our society. Feminine magic to me is at its core the ability to both perceive beyond what is seen and to deliberately emote or express. I'm a very strong emoter. That's part of my feminine magic.

SPEAKER_01 0:35

Alicia Corey, thank you so much for being here.

SPEAKER_00 0:38

So excited to be here. Thank you, Jessa.

SPEAKER_01 0:40

How does your journey lead you into creating something like the labor of love retreat?

SPEAKER_00 0:45

I had a pretty traumatic entry into motherhood. I had recently moved to Alaska with my husband. He was stationed there in the Coast Guard. And we were living on a remote island in Alaska, and we had been there for a few weeks, and we had no household goods. We were living in base housing with uh two camp chairs and an inflatable mattress. And our next door neighbors took pity on us and like moved an easy chair from their house into our living room. And so I had one comfortable place to sit. So I was 34 weeks pregnant. So six weeks before my due date, and my husband took his first flight completely out of range to the north slope of Alaska to do a search and rescue training exercise with pair of jumpers. And I was supposed to go to dinner with some friends that evening. And I was getting ready for dinner and I got out of the shower and I got dressed and my water broke. Like I was in complete shock. And I called him and I called the friends I was supposed to be meeting for dinner. I was like, hey, I'm not gonna make it. And I walked to my next door neighbor's house and said, Hey, like, my I think my water just broke. Can you please drive me to the hospital? Um, and because we were on a remote island, our hospital was a pretty small hospital, more of like a medical center with some facilities, but no NICU. So they monitored me really closely in the hospital. The friend who I was supposed to meet for dinner came to the hospital, and the neighbor came to the hospital, and they held my hands through birth because my husband did not make it back in time. And then I had this very tiny uh premature baby who was not in complete distress, but was definitely not fully cooked and needed some extra support. And so they had called a Medevac airplane and uh shortly after giving birth, like they put him on my chest for maybe a moment, but I don't even know if I got to hold him, honestly. Oh they they like attended to what they were worried about his needs were, which is like a surfactant undeveloped lungs, so like treating his lungs with a shot. And then they put him in the isolate, and they put him on the airplane and they flew him to Anchorage. So it was this like incredibly unexpected, hard launch, I guess, into motherhood, in which my identity shifted like that. I was totally unprepared, and I had to immediately think about how I was going to keep this human alive, like that responsibility of mother. So I basically disassociated from myself because it was now all about this tiny human. Um, my husband did make it back in time to get on the Medvac plane. So I was so grateful that he was with the baby. Um and he went to Anchorage, that he and the baby went to Anchorage to the NICU, and like they gave me a sleeping pill and it was lights out in the hospital. So I woke up the next morning um and told the nurse, I was like, I need to get checked out. I bought a ticket to Anchorage. Um, my friend had brought in a laptop, and I went straight from the hospital to the airport. I had someone else pack a bag for me, and I got on that plane and I flew to Anchorage, and like that was it. I was attending to the NICU, walking back and forth uh a mile each way from from the hotel where we were staying to the hospital to go try and figure out what it was to be mother to this baby that was in the hospital. Um, so that was kind of a crazy experience. And everyone was asking me, like my mom was asking me, like, are you okay? How are you handling it so well? And it was just like I had no choice. It was just like you just do, and I think women always do this, like you just do what's in front of you. You you do the thing that needs doing, and that's what it was. So um we were there for a couple of weeks while my son was in the NICU and it was just a total blur, a strange situation. And um, I mean, that's the that's the long story of the birth experience. But when I got back to Kodiak, where we were living, and started having like a normal mom life, like things felt normal again. Like I adjusted into life as mother. And it took me at least 10 years to realize how much of myself I had lost in that process. Um and I had to really deliberately re redevelop a relationship with myself and reconnect with who I was and hold space for the emotions that I had just pushed down so that I could function as a mom. And it was, I had another baby, we moved to California, like life seemed really fine, and all of a sudden I was having these emotions that were coming out sideways, and I didn't know where it was coming from, and I was I had like resentment and anger and all of these feelings that I didn't really know what they were about. So I I had to, or I decided to, I guess, hold space for them. And as a mom, I think we feel guilty to feel anything negative about our mother experience or our birth experience or about our lives in general as mothers. And I had to sit with all of those feelings, like the resentment, the grief, the guilt, the everything that I was feeling about having lost myself completely in becoming a mother. And then I also wasn't really sure if I had ever really known who I was in the first place.

SPEAKER_01 7:19

Wow. Thank you for sharing that. That's there's a lot there. And I'm curious about a lot of things. First of all, I'm curious about how how what was your second birth like after having such a traumatic birth? But then also you mentioned you had realized that you lost yourself. And do you think it was because the birth was traumatic? Or do you think that becoming a mother you would have lost yourself inevitably? Or have you always just been lost?

SPEAKER_00 7:50

Like, I know that's a lot, but no, all of the above. Yeah. I'll start at the end and work my way back. Um, I I do think, in a sense, I was always lost. I think partly because I was always a good girl, like I was a great student, I was a great, I was a good child. I didn't like I never got grounded, I never got yelled at. Like I just did the right thing. I just did. Um and then I became a great employee. And then, you know, all of the things, right? So I was performing for the expectations of our society.

SPEAKER_01 8:29

Are you a good wife too? Did that play out in your marriage as well?

SPEAKER_00 8:33

That's that's so true. Yeah, definitely a good wife, right? Like I married someone in the military who had to be gone all the time. So it's just like, I mean, I wasn't, I don't not have a spine, right? Like we, we, we have equal, equal power. And that's something that's so beautiful about our relationship. Is like we make a lot of space for like to to flare up and to have real feelings and to have raw feelings and and to raise voices and have that be something that we both hold space for to express what needs expressing and then move through it like goldfish, boom, we're done. So it's it's actually very beautiful. And I did find a really strong equal partner. But yes, like I also replicated those good wife things of especially in Alaska, um, just because it's I don't know, it's rural and we were remote. So it was like I was cooking all the time, you know, baking cookies, baking soup, like all of the things. Um, I did jump right back to work, but I worked part-time for a really long time until my youngest was four, just to make sure that I could manage all the things and, you know, still be mom. So yes, I was I was a little bit always lost. And then the birth definitely changes all mothers, right? You shift your identity from from who you are to mother. Def I think all mothers experience that. But it having happened so quickly, I think was like an extra layer of disassociation for me. And then also I have since realized how sensitive I am, and that I was probably always like part of that good girl thing was like, how can I make life easy for myself? Because I feel what everyone else is feeling. And so being the good girl enabled me to live harmoniously and not have to feel other people's rejection, disappointment, resentment, grief, whatever. It like it kept my I felt good because I could control my environment feeling harmonious because I was experiencing everything that the people in my environment were also feeling. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:44

So how do you see that now? These patterns, this good girl archetype. I guess what's your relationship with it now?

SPEAKER_00 10:51

I think the biggest shift has been like letting go of the the guilt of not being the good fill in the blank. Um, allowing myself space to be all of those other things that we don't really accept, like feeling anger, feeling resentment, feeling any quote unquote negative emotion, prioritizing myself, making time for the things that I need, recognizing what my needs are. Um so I definitely have a much healthier relationship with it. And I would say I'm still a good employee and I'm still a good wife. There's also I've recognized some satisfaction for me in that. Like I get really a lot of satisfaction out of job well done, out of creating a harmonious environment in my work. You know, that feels good to me. And so yeah, I haven't shut it all down because I recognize that part of it is actually me.

SPEAKER_01 11:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:49

On the conditioning, which is still there.

SPEAKER_01 11:51

I guess the key is to not abandon yourself, right? If you're doing all of that and you're connected with yourself and you're staying true to yourself, then I don't see any issue with that. The issue is most women are abandoning themselves to show up in these roles.

SPEAKER_00 12:07

Perfect words. So true. Yes. Self-abandon, I think, is a is a real struggle for so many women. Um for the sake of whatever is the thing that they feel needs their attention the most, whatever that is.

SPEAKER_01 12:23

So this labor of love retreat that you're hosting, I think it's in September, right?

SPEAKER_00 12:28

Yes, it is labor of the band. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 12:30

Oh duh. Um, how did you like so what is it and how what inspired you to do that now?

SPEAKER_00 12:43

I had basically been down the internet rabbit hole of so many different healing practices, and I found so many things that were valuable and useful to me. I took so many courses and gathered, you know, so many tools and practices. And I just had this like amassed all of these little things that had helped me along my way. And I also found that I really enjoyed holding space for people and like how I had learned to make room for myself, I also was able to do for others. And so all of these things were there. And then I also, in my professional life, am a corporate change consultant. So I facilitate transformational change for individuals and corporations. And so, like all of these pieces came together to be like, why don't I just facilitate this thing? And I found this incredible space that made it easy because it's a beautiful property in the wine country in Northern California where they have a kitchen, they have a chef, they have cute little cabins. So, like, you don't have to figure out lodging, you don't have to figure out meals and catering. It's just all in one. And you just tell them how many people and you make it happen. So it it came together beautifully in in all of that. And then I also have a couple of friends that were interested in providing their services and and their expertise in yoga and Pilates for like movement practices that that really go along with it. So so that's how it all came together.

SPEAKER_01 14:15

What are you gonna be doing there? Are you holding anything specific? Like what is your role in that?

SPEAKER_00 14:22

My role is uh definitely the primary facilitator. So I will be leading the entire weekend's events and then like pulling in the other activities where they fit in. Um, and doing that through a theme of like going through the four elements. So, like helping the women who attend go through a really smooth flow of like coming together in a circle, getting grounded, having some playful movement. Like we're gonna do a dance party the first night. I'm excited for that. Um, and then on the first morning, you know, waking up and then moving into the water, right? And so making space for emotions, doing some somatic practices, some gentle yin yoga, like getting deep. And I've found that both in my personal and my professional life, I've learned that uh truth emerges when you create safety. And so, like, it's so important to me that this be a safe space for the women that attend and specifically within this part of the weekend to create such a sense of nourishment and safety that women can reconnect with those parts of themselves that they have shunned or pushed down the way I did. And then then sort of we once we've gone deep, then it lights up again, you know, like we don't want to stay in the in the in the depths. I want it to be fun too. And so then there'll be a fire theme where we start working on our inspiration and our and our sparks and things maybe that we want to release, do a little fire ceremony, another dance party. Um, and then the last day goes into the air theme where we're really working on clarity, next steps. Um, one thing that I recognize about myself, and I think other women like me who might want to attend is that sometimes we feel like we need a permission slip to make this time for ourselves or to prioritize ourselves. So I wanted, it was really important to me to offer like concrete tools and takeaways. Like I use AI a ton for both personal reflection and my own like therapy, and also in my work. And I want to be able to be share what I've learned and what I've developed there with people. And if they don't like AI, then there's a journal prompt version, right? So, like sheets, tools, next steps, strategic plans, all of these things that I do in my professional work, I I want to make available to the women in the retreat so that they leave with something very clear that they can take away and and re-integrate into their life and not just be like, oh, that was a fun weekend. And and if that's what you need, that's fine too. But there's an there's an offer of something more.

SPEAKER_01 17:11

Yeah, to make it tangible.

SPEAKER_00 17:13

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 17:14

I love that. I love that you incorporate the elements. I think when you get women together and you bring in the elements, it's just so powerful.

SPEAKER_00 17:22

It really is. I'm excited for it.

SPEAKER_01 17:25

You said, and I wrote this down because I loved it. You said truth emerges when you create safety. Can you share more about that? Or is there anything else that you can say on that or expand on?

SPEAKER_00 17:38

Yeah. Um this is something that I actually learned more in a corporate environment.

SPEAKER_01 17:46

Um I was in- Okay, I have questions about that too, actually. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:50

I was in a very corporate role, a very conservative company. Um, and we had what were called employee resource groups. So, like, you know, little groups of employees that championed the experiences and the needs of certain sex of employees. So it was like, you know, there was the Black Employee Network and there was the women's empowerment, I forget what it was called, group. But I I led the disability inclusion alliance because um I am a mother to a child who is disabled. And that was a whole other piece of like uh learning and cracking myself open and vulnerability, right? To acknowledge to not to acknowledge that, but to like to navigate that, being a working mom also with heavier demands at home and husband who was gone a lot. Um, but I through that experience created this bubble of safety within this corporate environment where other employees who either had disabilities or were in caregiving roles for family members of left ones with disabilities truly had the space to express what their challenges and their needs are and also like strategies and tools and things that they had learned that had helped them. And that was so powerful of a thing to create in this unexpected place. Um that that was something that I carried with me that I wanted to do again.

SPEAKER_01 19:20

That is really beautiful that you brought that in. And it's interesting because I was just having this conversation with somebody. I interviewed someone, and it was about the we were talking about the dark feminine mainly, but I had asked her a question. I said, Do you think it's possible to I forget what I what exactly what I said, but basically, like, can you stay connected as a woman, can you stay connected to yourself and your cyclical intelligence in a corporate structure? And I said, I don't think you can. And you're challenging this for me right now, which I love. That because you're like firsthand bringing some kind of like, you're like bringing a space that normally we would not see in in this corporate world. And it's like you're it, yeah, I guess you're you're challenging the structure a bit. Or do you like I don't know? Because sometimes I'm like, do you I don't know. This is a big question, and I have I have so many different things popping up for me, but that's probably not where I want to segue to because it opens up another huge dilemma. But I'll just hear your thoughts on them.

SPEAKER_00 20:25

I get it, right? There's like, there's so much to unpack. I will do one more thing on the safety. I will just say that um the safety and the truth before I lose this thread. Um the microcosm, like that was like the first time where it was so obvious and clear to me and in such a beautiful way. But then I realized that it was the same for myself as I was reconnecting to myself and building a relationship with myself. I had to create spaces for safety, truly just in my own world and like private spaces where I could connect those parts of myself that I had shunned. Um, and for me, safe meant alone, where I could feel the ugly emotions. So it that like reinforced it for me how critical and important that was. And that's also something that's part of the retreat practices. But I so I wanted to finish that thought. But in the corporate world, yes, like I am a sensitive being. I am ultra intuitive. And what I've learned is that like my feminine, my femininity is what has made me so good at my job. And it makes me stand out above other people who do what I do because I know exactly when to reach out to somebody and how. And I encode emails with love. Like I literally like send things with little energetic packages. Like, and I have a very high response rate to cold engagement. Like when you're implementing people and trying to get them to do the thing, um, like it's a really powerful tool. But I have to believe in what the thing that I'm convincing people to do. Like there's no, right? It's not just for the sake of like this is the thing. It has to be something that that aligns with my truth.

SPEAKER_01 22:10

So then what I'm hearing is you you care about what you're doing. Like it's it's it sounds genuinely meaningful to you.

SPEAKER_00 22:18

It is. There are things that are ultra frustrating and challenging. Like I don't think we can get away from that in in any job. And there are things that I have to manage for, like to drain on my energy and my time when I have like literally 14 meetings in one day, like back to back to back. Um, so that's me a lot on strategies and tools too. I have like things all over my desk that help me ground and like recenter in between meetings when I'm just on camera all day. Um and now I've lost my training.

SPEAKER_01 22:49

Wow, you do 14. Some days you'll have 14 meetings back to back. But see, see, see it what arises within me if I can be direct is like that's fucked up. Like I'm just like, no. Like that's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 23:07

It is crazy. It is crazy, and it's not the norm. And if it was the norm, I would, I would not allow it to sustain. Like I have to be in a peak right now um of sort of two different types of work coming together. So that is not the norm, but it's also uh has happened definitely like it happens a few times a month where I'll have a day like that. I would say average would be eight meetings in a day. How long? Um, some anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour. So they do like not usually an hour, hour would be a rarity. So on average, 30 minutes.

SPEAKER_01 23:44

So then if you're let's say like you're in meetings all day, right? How do you when do you get your work done? Or is like meetings the work? Yes, I'm corporate corporate life doesn't make sense to me. Like I hear some of my clients too share what they do. I'm like, I don't get what you what do you do though? Like it doesn't make sense to me sometimes. I feel like that world is lost on me. Well, and it doesn't have to be for everyone. And I I'm curious about it. Like, I wish I could put a camera on you and just watch you all day to be like, what's really going on here?

SPEAKER_00 24:19

Like like what do you do? I I mean, I can give you like the word of like I'm a change agent, like I'm a change management consultant. So um I work with companies that are rolling out initiatives, like something in the company needs to change. And like it might be a new technology platform or it might be something else, right? A change initiative. And I work with um companies to help them define the strategy of how they are going to like make that change happen, generally internally within the companies. Like, who are the key leaders that need to be informed? And then and then it gets just into like building the right relationships, building a lot of trust and understanding people's needs truly deeply. Like this is where like the feminine comes in because the empathy is how I don't trust and like the ability to like sit with somebody and truly understand like what are their challenges, what's hard for them today? How can we solve some of your existing problems within the scope of this thing that is coming your way? And hey, it's not going anywhere. Like this is happening, it's coming like a freight train. So, like, if we all need to get on board, and how can I use this as an opportunity to solve something else that's hard for you right now?

SPEAKER_01 25:35

Um okay, you're okay. This makes more sense now. The meetings and because your job is inherently relational, essentially.

SPEAKER_00 25:43

It is. And then there are a lot of like there are documents that go with it, like with any corporate or consulting job, it's like, you know, there's the emails back and forth or whatever. But then there's like when you've done a thing to get that thing approved, you have to make a deliverable, like a PowerPoint deck or something that you turn in to say, here is this thing, box checked complete. And so there's a lot of then turning this like relational engagement and what is learned and like what happens and the timeline and turning that into visuals. So the most artistic part of my career is PowerPoint. Is that hard? Um, it's something that I have learned to enjoy, probably because it's the only creative, or not the only creative outlet, but it's the only artistic part of my corporate job. And so I've I've found ways to love and appreciate like a really clean presentation that gives you the information that you need in a visible, visual way that's not overly busy, it's hard, not hard to follow.

SPEAKER_01 26:44

So as women, we we go through inner seasons, right? We're not as consistent as men. How do you feel like that either supports you in this structure or is a disadvantage to you in this kind of a corporate structure? Um do you notice like that?

SPEAKER_00 27:05

I do notice. I will say I'm not super great about tracking like my weekly, you know, like my cycles and my weekly changes, but I I'm aware enough that I can see the difference between a week where it's very easy for me to be like out there and driving and extroverted and making things happen. And then I have weeks where I'm like, why am I so tired? But I might be extra like intuitive and sensing. Um so I will say it is both like I I can capitalize on the strengths of a given season, but I do definitely feel the strain of like when I'm in my quieter or more reserved periods of like having to keep up with the demands of work. And I do have to build myself in more, just more respite time, more time between meetings, you know, defer things that are not essential, delegate things to my team where appropriate.

SPEAKER_01 28:02

Um, so and you and you feel like that's sustainable?

SPEAKER_00 28:06

I do feel like it's sustainable as long as I believe in the work that I'm doing. Yeah, because I do get energy from it, right? It's like it's yeah. And the thing I get the most energy from is truly the people. It's like I've helped a person solve a problem, like from the client side, or have I helped my team? Like what's been so amazing about the project that I'm on right now is I have a team that's grown up and now like they're taking lead on things. And I've I've been cultivating and mentoring a group of people who now I can be like, okay, this piece is your baby now, and this piece is your baby now. And now you work for the client and do those things. And I'll just come in and like drop in when you're stuck or you need oversight or like you need to need to polish something up. Uh and and that's like I could do that all day long. Like that's that's that's a lot of meetings, but that's not work for me.

SPEAKER_01 28:56

I see. So the the important thing here is purpose, is what I'm getting from that. It's feeling like the work has meaning and purpose. Which makes sense because as humans, it's what motivates us for anything in life.

SPEAKER_00 29:14

100%. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:17

So you mentioned that you do have a a disabled child, and I'm wondering how that is as a mother conditioned to be, you know, good. Because that just feels to me like, wow, that's I imagine I don't want to well. Let me just I'll stop there because I'm already feeling into something. So I'll just leave it there. How does that in yeah?

SPEAKER_00 29:44

Your your intuition is right, Jessa. Um, and it's less so now, but when my son was younger, like zero to five, there were some really hard years of judgment and misunderstanding. And this is before he was diagnosed. He has a non-visible disability, so it's you know, it's neurological, it's how he thinks, how he functions, how he emotionally reacts to things. Um, and there are like multiple co-occurring neurodivergences, and there uh there was a lot of heartbreak and as a younger parent in the rejection and the misunderstanding of the world not not seeing my child for who they really were. But that also cracked me so wide open to like understanding and appreciating the diversity of the way we are as humans, that I would never want it to be different. Um, and the older he gets, the easier it is, and the more he is appreciated. Honestly, he like always was wanted to be like a small adult. And so now that he's a teenager, um he can function a lot more like a small adult. But like a lot of the the overreactions and the emotional things for him were like just frustration of not being able to express himself properly at six months and nine months, and you know, one and a half and and three, et cetera, like not having like the agency to to be his own person.

SPEAKER_01 31:32

Wow. I imagine you learned a lot through being there for him and supporting him through that process, like learning a lot about yourself. And maybe even I'm wondering if that influenced your relationship with your own emotions too.

SPEAKER_00 31:48

It definitely helped me appreciate how important it was to allow space to express emotions. Like, especially with a son and in this like culture that we're in, right? And like what's acceptable and what's not acceptable. I was not just thinking about what's acceptable for me as a woman and you know, the the approved emotions and the not approved emotions, but also like what are the expectations of boys and men? And how can I make sure that the children that I'm raising feel like all of their emotions are there's there's room in our family for all of your emotions, and the world may not want to experience them. So it's like the twofold part of like you're safe here and you can feel all of the things, and we will hold space for you in your very big feelings, whether or not they're proportional to the situation according to our perception. But if this same emotion goes out into the world and it's on the, you know, on the hockey rink or in the classroom, yeah, there will be judgment and it will be more challenging to build social relationships. And I will get phone calls from teachers and and administrators.

SPEAKER_01 33:06

So they're lucky that they have you as a mom who can who can walk them through these things, especially how how many, how many you have three children? Did I just make that up?

SPEAKER_02 33:17

You have two children, especially three right, three dogs.

SPEAKER_01 33:23

I'm like, those are children too. Yeah. Um yeah, and it I think it's just so important for young boys to have that role model. That's like, hey, it's it's actually okay to express and feel all of your feelings.

SPEAKER_00 33:42

In hindsight, I'm so grateful. I like I didn't I wasn't thinking about the patriarchy when I was, you know, when he was really little and I was holding space for his emotions. At the time, it was just like, this is what my kid needs, and I'm the only space that he's got, so I'm gonna be it. But as the years have gone by and more things are just more obvious to all of us, right? Maybe it was obvious to some all along, but I kind of had my head in the sand a little bit about how toxic the capitalist patriarchal structure even was and how pervasive. Um, like I'm so grateful that like we built this foundation from the very beginning that my children feel so safe to express their emotions. And and I get all of them. I get the full range. But but that's important for them to know it is okay to have and feel those things and also know what the consequences might be.

SPEAKER_01 34:34

Yeah. And that you won't abandon them for having them or scold them or shame them, like so many parents do. So many well-meaning intended parents as well.

SPEAKER_00 34:45

Also that like just being like fully transparent, like it's hard. Like, I don't I don't accept the emotions with perfect patience all the time, right? Like, if if I'm getting Yeah, you're not perfect. I'm not perfect. When me, I'm like, and there are times when I can't handle it, and I'll have to say, like, your emotion is valid, and I can't be around it right now. So I have to set my own boundaries about it, especially as they get older and more teenagery, you know, more of this. So I definitely have to set my own boundaries, or I can be triggered by their emotions. And that was actually another really huge like learning opportunity development for me with my daughter was like us triggering each other and our emotions. Um, that was a really like meaningful sort of evolution.

SPEAKER_01 35:34

So is your daughter as sensitive as you are? How old is your daughter? She's 11.

SPEAKER_00 35:42

And it's honestly hard to tell how sensitive she is because she is very reserved. She's she keeps her feelings very close and she doesn't like to talk about it, at least not with me. She feels very safe with my husband. We have a very like stereotypical, like mother-son, father-daughter, like deep bond. And and also like everyone is loving and everyone is great, but like the the first go-to parent is mother-daughter, father-son. And with me, I mean, I can't even compliment her without a reaction. Like, I don't, I don't know where it comes from. Is her reaction? Are you right? Like, I mean, I cannot give feedback, but like she just doesn't want to hear anything, any, any opinion. So it's hard. I think she's really sensitive.

SPEAKER_01 36:35

Can her can her father compliment her?

SPEAKER_00 36:38

What?

SPEAKER_01 36:39

Yes, can interesting. There might be some like unconscious stuff going on with the mother.

SPEAKER_00 36:45

Probably, for sure. And like they come in how they come in. That was another huge lesson with my with my son and disabilities. It's like, man, like, and coming six weeks early. Like, you I had all these ideas. I always wanted to be a mother. Like, this was this was something that was definitely on my bingo card. I don't know why. I just like there was there was no no version of my future that I didn't see myself becoming a mother.

SPEAKER_01 37:08

You knew that from how how long how young did you know that? High school.

SPEAKER_00 37:14

But I wasn't actively trying to become mother at that time. But you always knew that that's what you wanted. I always knew. Like, and I think that I just I carry a very like mother archetype. Yeah. So even if I hadn't had children, I think it just would have come out another way. It's like at my work, I am like a lot of what I talked about before with my work was like the corporate thing, but like within my company, which is smaller, like I am very much mom vibes. I'm like mentoring all the like early career, you know, people and giving them advice and helping them deal with their managers and like their promotion paths and stuff. Like, I just that is very that is it is just who I am.

SPEAKER_01 37:54

Yeah, that archetype likes to express itself through you.

SPEAKER_00 37:57

Very much so, yeah. So the idea of it and then the reality of it when it was like traumatic and he came early and my husband wasn't there, and then um I had totally disassociated, and then he was a hard baby who did not sleep and cried all the time and didn't sleep through the night for 18 months. Um, I did not sleep for 10 years.

SPEAKER_02 38:22

Whoa.

SPEAKER_00 38:23

But like being because of one or the other or both children.

SPEAKER_01 38:28

Is that a normal is that normal for mothers? Like, I don't know. I I don't have children.

SPEAKER_00 38:32

No, I don't I I think like 14 meetings a day, it's not normal, but it's also not it's not unheard of. Like there's you get a good sleeper or you don't, and I didn't. So that's a whole other thing. Like getting enough rest and like to be to be who you are, like to be regulated was important for me to figure out too.

SPEAKER_01 38:57

So I'm just gonna follow this because my curiosity is just here because I know you're into you know a little bit about human design, right? Some, yeah, I think, or like astrology.

SPEAKER_00 39:08

Yeah, I I would I would go online chart, but like I don't know what the gates and the like I could tell you I'm a 19. I also did gene keys, and so like I'm I know some, but not enough.

SPEAKER_01 39:20

I'm just wondering if this is in your like, do you have a lot of water in your chart? Because I feel like you mentioned something. Did you mention something like this to me about having water, a lot of water in your chart, or maybe I am an air sign with a lot of Virgo placements.

SPEAKER_00 39:35

Wow. I know, right? I I'm I could go looking for the water signs, but I don't necessarily know like offhand how much water is in my chart. What was most striking to me is like I'm I'm an Aquarius, so I I'm an air sign, but but there was so much Virgo in my chart that it made me laugh.

SPEAKER_01 39:57

That makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 39:58

It does make sense. Yeah. Like Virgo was like, and this also makes sense probably too. Like, Virgo was the sign that I most was like, ew, that's boring. Like I don't know, because it's like Virgo's, but like, I don't know. I think what do you think that was? It was like very tidy and very like perfection. I don't know. Very, yes, just like very structured and very everything had to be sent just so. And I was just like, ew, I don't fit in that box. Like, no, too, no, I don't, I don't like rules. I don't, I don't bake because I don't like rules. I do not have to be told like what to do or like how to do it.

SPEAKER_01 40:38

That's the Aquarius in you.

SPEAKER_00 40:40

Mm-hmm. So, like at work, tell me, tell me the outcome you want me to reach and let me do my like intuitive, like feminine magic to get us there. Just trust my process. But don't let me first do this and then do this and blah blah blah blah.

SPEAKER_01 40:57

Because I'll just I don't I don't think that because it it feels it's like um it's rigid. Like, well, I mean uh obviously if you're feminine leaning, you know what I mean? Like if you're more comfortable with the feminine. So, what is your like version of feminine magic? Ooh, my version like what does that look like to you, feminine magic?

SPEAKER_00 41:20

I feel like there's so many versions of feminine magic, and it depends on like how it can maybe safely express in different environments. Like feminine magic to me is like at its core, I think it is the ability to both perceive beyond what is seen and to deliberately like emote or express. Like I hold a frequency, right, of like I need to feel grounded right now, or I want to feel like I want to project love right now. And I'm a very strong emoter. Um, that's part of my feminine magic. That's also like not dangerous, but inconvenient when I'm feeling like a very ragey emotion or a griefy emotion. My husband's like, Why are you crying? And I'm like, I just need to feel it and express it and it needs to move through me. I'm just gonna be racked with sobs. And there's no, I don't want to explain why. I want to explain what this is about because it was like there was this one tiny trigger that went all the way through every grief I've ever felt. Plus I was my dog. Like now I'm grieving like all of feminism and and like all of the repression of the feminine.

SPEAKER_01 42:39

That was a bit of a no, no, that's good because you're touching on that, you know, sometimes our emotions they're not just ours. I mean, that's not to say, like, you know, your emotions aren't your responsibility and that you shouldn't feel them because you always should, but sometimes they're not yours. Like they're so deep and like they're ancestral, and you are actually grieving for an ancestor. And so it feels like that's what you're you were touching on just there. Like it it's sometimes it just feels like a a deep, never-ending wealth.

SPEAKER_00 43:11

Yeah, it's scary to get in there sometimes. Like, and I feel like our own personal triggers or emotions sometimes are like a gateway. It's like you have one thing that brings it up in you, but once it's there and it's present for you, like if you want to, you can you can go really deep or broad or everywhere with it, and that's where it's you know, expressing the emotions of something so much larger than yourself.

SPEAKER_01 43:43

Why is finding safety so important for that process? I think you mentioned a lot about safety and rest when I was checking out your website.

SPEAKER_00 43:54

That is a great question. Um, but for me. I have, and I forget like of the nine core wounds, I forget which one it's called, but it maybe it's rejection. Like I have like a rejection wound or a rejection fear. And so I think it really comes from that. And I'm sure I'm not, you know, I'm not the only one who has this where I was never harmed. But like you said, so many parents, well-meaning parents, or in so many environments, don't accept strong emotions or negative emotions or whatever, that I had an imprint of what was acceptable to express versus not acceptable to express. And so those things that I felt that I got conditioned were not acceptable to express. I only could express them in a place where I felt safe, where I felt like there would not be the fear of rejection and abandonment. And you know, like, no, that's not that's not safe here. We don't do that here. Um so I just have to find those like quiet, safe spaces in my car or like locked in a room where I can't be interrupted. And I don't want to explain myself either. Like when you're in the that the depth of that, like someone coming in and trying to logic you through, like, well, why are you feeling this way? What's going on?

SPEAKER_01 45:17

I knew and I'm like, It's like it doesn't make fucking sense. Go away.

SPEAKER_00 45:21

Right. We don't fall apart right now so that I can put myself back together.

SPEAKER_01 45:25

Which emotions for you do you feel like you really rejected?

SPEAKER_00 45:31

Anger for sure.

SPEAKER_01 45:33

For sure.

SPEAKER_00 45:33

I did not feel like I was allowed to feel anger for a long time. Do you remember their go ahead? Oh no, I don't remember a time that yeah, where where specifically anger was unacceptable. I I don't know if it was um a specific situation or if it was just like the gen like because I'm so sensitive, I just absorb the expectations and the conditioning so much.

SPEAKER_01 46:04

Was anger a thing in your household?

SPEAKER_00 46:07

Oh absolutely not.

SPEAKER_01 46:08

Yeah, that's that in and of itself is like no, there was no anger.

SPEAKER_00 46:12

You're right. I actually did a video about this. There was no anger in my household. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:20

And so yeah, they weren't comfortable with anger.

SPEAKER_00 46:23

Right. And there was in the and there was also no visible sadness.

SPEAKER_01 46:30

Basically no emotions. Well, what emotions were oh positive emotions were okay, yeah. But no negative emotions essentially.

SPEAKER_00 46:40

Right. They just weren't they just visible, they weren't expressed.

unknown 46:44

Right.

SPEAKER_00 46:44

And I don't remember like being shunned necessarily or anything, right? But it was what the environment around me was was very pleasant and supportive and sweet and accommodating. Um my parents never once raised their voices at me in my entire life. Wow. That's a testament to my my inner good girl and the fact that they are truly like pretty low-key, um, which was beautiful. But then I did not have a model of how to express those.

SPEAKER_01 47:14

Right, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 47:16

Yeah, so I had to learn how, and then had I wanted to show my children how as well, or that it was okay too.

SPEAKER_01 47:22

Yeah, it's it really is so damaging, right? Because it's like as a as a human, we have a nervous system and most communication's nonverbal. So it's like we're feeling all of these things that are happening, and like we're like we're we're sensing the emotions and reading into body language and facial expressions, but nothing's being directly expressed. And it almost creates this gaslight of your reality because you're like, and this actually can happen at the unconscious level where you're not even aware that you're really fucking confused because you're like, I'm feeling this way, but nothing around me is like making me feel it's like I'm literally just reading in between the lines and something just feels off. Like that constant feeling of like, what they're they're saying this, they're showing up this way, but something is deeply wrong. But I have no evidence or proof that something is wrong. And that's a gaslight.

SPEAKER_00 48:18

That's feminine magic, though, because but we have to learn to trust that. And that's art without the evidence.

SPEAKER_01 48:24

Well, right, because we had no reason to trust it. So then we go our entire life doubting our perceptions and doubting our intuition and our instincts. That's that's why I'm not in a relationship right now. It took me so long to really like work through this because I would just continue to get into relationships with the wrong guy, the bad guy, because I wasn't trusting myself. Even though I now know all the patterns, right? But I was still continuing to make the same mistake, knowing this time that I was making the same mistake. But it's like, all right, I guess we're gonna do this again. And so now I just committed to being single for like almost a year now. So I think when I start dating again, it's gonna be good. But I had to like take a step back because I just noticed myself continuing to gaslight myself, doubt myself, even though I could see that I was doing it, but it was so hardwired. And I just went on a rant there.

SPEAKER_00 49:18

No, that was great. Um, well, I think that's actually a big part of the mentorship that I do at work is for younger women in the workplace, especially, like especially women in their 20s and women of color. Like I know their, I mean, I don't have that personal lip experience of being woman of color, but certainly being a young woman in the workplace. And and I can see other people's perceptions of women and how they make assumptions or treat them differently or give them different jobs, like, oh, you take the notes in the meeting or whatever. Um, and I I deliberately, like as part of my mentorship, help them trust their intuition about how to go about things because this is something I had to learn for myself in my work life. Um, to trust the process, that like just because someone's telling you to do it this way doesn't mean that's the best way. Trust your own way. Um, you have to do X, Y, Z to get their blessings and so for them to let you do it for a couple of times. Um, but back to to what you were saying, like that's just so critical to learn to trust our intuition. And I wonder like why it shows up only in relationships versus like in other places for you.

SPEAKER_01 50:31

Yeah, it's very relational for me. I feel like I'm very connected otherwise, but I think it's just probably because of uh so much trauma, like early life trauma.

SPEAKER_00 50:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:43

In my relation, in my family relationships, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:46

Because like because what I described before was like it um indirect gaslighting, but like I had also on top of that very direct gaslighting where it'd be like, I'd say something and be like, what are you talking about? Like, you don't know what you're like, you don't like that didn't just happen. It's like the classic what you see that you didn't just see, what you heard, you didn't hear. You're making a big thing out of nothing. Like, and it and of course, like the really damaging one where it's like this person in the family is clearly harmful and abusive, but of course you have to let them in and be nice to them and have a relationship with them and never think negatively about them because they're family, like all of that kind of a thing.

SPEAKER_00 51:26

And you're like, oh well, thank you for helping me learn healthy boundaries or not. Like exactly.

SPEAKER_01 51:32

So then I just was like, oh, well, going through life, it's like, oh, well, this person is treating me this way, but but I love them, so I just have to keep loving them because that's what you do, like just really unhealthy stuff. But but it's good because it's it's allowed me to connect with. I mean, I say maybe it's good, but it's like, you know, if I just didn't have the experience I had, I would have never had to learn it because it just is innate. You know what I mean? I think there's a lot of like spiritual bypassing shit where it's like, yeah, we are here for a human experience, and it comes with all these layers of shit that we have to like whatever deconstruct within ourselves to get to what's already innate. But like, if we had better conditioning and upbringings, we wouldn't have to go through all of that. You know what I'm saying? It's just here all the time.

SPEAKER_00 52:22

Appreciate it and appreciate the learnings and da-da-da-da-da. But also like, that's not right. Like, that's fucked up and that shouldn't be happening, and like recognizing what what's okay and not okay to your own personal truth and boundaries.

SPEAKER_01 52:37

Yeah. And hopefully by doing the work and and healing, we can change this world for the those that have yet to come so that it doesn't continue to be what it is. I think I think we're on the right track.

SPEAKER_00 52:51

I do, I truly do, but I am also a relentless optimist and a and a change agent.

SPEAKER_01 52:56

So I think you're designed to see it that way.

SPEAKER_00 53:01

I yeah, and that is my program. Well, which reminds me, we talked about human design. Oh, but you asked about water. What else about human design?

SPEAKER_01 53:09

Um, well, I was curious if you knew about your human design and maybe like if that relates to this mothering in you. Because you knew from a young age that you wanted to be a mother. So I'm just curious, like, if you came in here with a that kind of a design. What's your type? Five?

SPEAKER_00 53:28

Is it a 5.1 or a 5.2? I guess I don't know human design that well. Okay, I remember that.

SPEAKER_01 53:34

Uh you so your type is either either like a projector, a manifestor, a manifesting generator. I'm you talking about the Enneagram, though.

SPEAKER_00 53:45

It's a 5.1 or a 5.2. I think it was a different part of the human.

SPEAKER_01 53:48

Oh, you're talking about the the the lines.

SPEAKER_00 53:52

Yes, I was thinking of the lines. Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 53:54

What lines? You're a five. What?

SPEAKER_00 53:56

I think I'm a five. I'm a five something. So am I both fives, but different.

SPEAKER_01 54:02

I'm a five-one. Oh, you mean you're a five-two?

SPEAKER_00 54:04

I think so, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:05

Because I remember that from our yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:07

Okay, yeah. But I'm pretty sure I'm a manifesting generator. I am like from here up is open, like throat up. And I have had a lot, I've had to do a lot of learning about like over talking or processing out loud. Like that was something I shamed myself for because I got a lot of feedback for it in my in my work life of like saying too much, over sharing, over speaking, and like learning like what is the right amount to share, like not to just dump everything on somebody because I'm like, I'm like, I'm authentic and I'm truthful and I'm an open book, and then blah, here's everything. So I had to learn like what's the right amount of sharing. Um, because I'm, yeah, I know that I'm open in this like design chart, open in throat, open in the crown, third eye, all open from here up. But I think I'm all closed from heart down.

SPEAKER_01 55:01

Yeah, you know what's interesting. They say that people with open throat, if they're around people with defined throat, they'll like they'll kind of like almost, it's almost like I'll finally like an outlet, and they like will overshare. Something about being around defined throats like almost as a permission slip. This is something I looked into a long time ago. So something about that though. Yeah, that would be a wonder it like releases pressure or something. I could totally see that.

SPEAKER_00 55:30

Yeah, or like it's like to me, clothes, it's feels like container. So it's like then it's like this unformed open throat has a place to put right, you know, like a place for it to be held.

SPEAKER_01 55:43

Yeah, that's exactly it.

SPEAKER_00 55:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:46

Whether you like person wants it or intended. Yeah. Mine's defined.

SPEAKER_00 55:51

So I found that I'm in your job too. Or I don't like if you're still doing therapy.

SPEAKER_01 55:58

So to close out, what does it look like to live life as a labor of love?

SPEAKER_00 56:03

To me, it's um similar to what I said in terms of like the feminine magic, which is like to both receive, turn the nourishment that we give to everyone else into ourselves, and then also have that be like a self-fulfilling cycle that we then have that nourishment to give back out into the world, whoever are the people that we want to nourish.

SPEAKER_01 56:34

I love that. So if anybody wants to look into your labor of love retreat, I'll link the website down below.

SPEAKER_00 56:42

It's just gonna be a really fun time with no pressure and no obligations, but a lot of opportunities to go deep and be gentle and be playful. And um, I'm really excited to see the the women that it calls in, that we can be on this journey together.

SPEAKER_01 56:59

And Northern California, right?

SPEAKER_00 57:01

It's Sonoma, yeah. Sonoma wine. Mm hmm.

SPEAKER_01 57:06

Yeah. Well, thank you so much, Alicia. Appreciate your time. Thank you. It was great chatting with you today.