You Belong Anywhere: The Power of Curiosity & Human Connection

What if belonging begins with something as simple as returning to the same coffee shop until someone recognizes you?

Wesley Warshawer spent five years as a digital nomad, living throughout the United States, Latin America, and Africa. Along the way, he discovered that unfamiliar places become personal through repeated presence, genuine curiosity, and the courage to begin conversations with people whose lives may look very different from our own.

In this episode, Wesley joins Melissa Kaye to explore the invisible “bubbles” we each inhabit and what becomes possible when we step outside them. He shares humorous and humbling moments from South Korea, Togo, Kenya, and small-town America that challenged his assumptions and helped him see both his country and himself with fresh eyes.

Wesley also offers a hopeful perspective on America’s presumed divisions. When we move beyond political labels and ask people to “paint a picture” of the future they desire, he believes we discover far more shared values than the loudest public narratives suggest.

Together, Melissa and Wesley explore becoming recognizable, creating connection in unfamiliar places, approaching difference without judgment, and choosing to belong wherever we find ourselves.

His closing invitation is timely and powerful: reject the culture of ridicule. When we stop using other people’s mistakes and differences to feel superior, we make room for humility, conversation, and belonging.

Read Wesley’s travel reflections at https://wesleywarshawer.substack.com/ and learn more about Elev8 Villages at https://www.elev8villages.org/.

The Belonging Podcast is generously underwritten by Deana Laughlin.

This podcast exists because we believe belonging is not a luxury. It’s a human need. Every story shared here helps us imagine a world where no one has to walk alone. 

If this conversation resonated with you, please follow, rate, or share the show with someone who might need it today. To learn more about the movement we’re building (or to get involved) visit Elev8Villages.org.

Thank you for joining us for this episode of The Belonging Podcast by Elev8 Villages - where belonging becomes a place we build together. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to another exciting episode of the Belonging Podcast by Elevate Villages. I'm your host, Melissa Kay, and I'm excited today for our guest to be joining us. He has spent five years moving around through countries and cultures as a digital nomad. When I first got to know him, I was really fascinated with how he learned to turn unfamiliar places into places rich with relationship. I'm really excited to explore what living all over the world has taught him about home, connection, and belonging. So let me introduce to you Wesley Warshower. Wesley, welcome to the Belonging Podcast.

SPEAKER_00 0:43

Thank you so much. Happy to be here. Congrats on your documentary, by the way. It was excellent.

SPEAKER_01 0:49

Thank you so, so much. Um so, Wesley, you spent five years without a permanent home. Take me into a moment when you realized that the place that was unfamiliar began to feel like you belonged or that you belonged there.

SPEAKER_00 1:13

So, like you said, I was a digital nomad for five years. Um, and I was bouncing around from different places about 18 months in the United States and three and a bit years in Latin America and in Africa. And to answer your question, sometimes you get there, you don't know anybody there, you don't know where to go, you don't know anything about the place. But once you start kind of knowing uh, I mean, where to like I can imagine that I didn't know this city and now I know it's always the second left back to my Airbnb, something like that. Ah, okay, I'm starting to get this place. The other thing is like I would always try to find a favorite restaurant or a favorite bakery or a favorite um like I I would join a gym, something like that. And once you started to recognize people, hey, I've seen this person before, I'm gonna I'm gonna wave, then I really felt like, okay, like I'm I can be here. I'm not s just a stranger here.

SPEAKER_01 2:14

Yeah, that's I I like that you just repeatedly would go to the same place. I think like when you're on vacation and you travel, you like try to see something different every day. But intentionally going to the same place over and over, you would. You would just start seeing familiar faces. So brilliant. How did you how did you decide like did somebody recommend doing that or did you just figure like it makes sense?

SPEAKER_00 2:42

No, no one recommended it. Um I came up with this idea of the bubble when I was kind of young. I was in college, and I'll I'll just tell a quick story. I uh I joined a volleyball team when I was in in college in intramurals. I've never played volleyball before, and somehow, in a random coincidence, I'm paired with um my volleyball partner, is a Japanese foreign exchange student. And uh we're we're at the University of Arizona, we're playing volleyball, we take a break to get some water, and we just start talking, and he asked me something about an upcoming uh holiday called Halloween. And he said, I don't I don't know what that is. And so I'm explaining kind of what it is. Okay, you know, we're going back and forth. And uh just coincidentally, I had just heard a knock-knock joke about Halloween, and I said, We're talking about Halloween, and it just came to my mind randomly. And I said, Hey, do you do you want to hear a joke about Halloween? And he said, Sure, sure. And I said, All right, knock knock.

SPEAKER_01 3:48

Who's there?

SPEAKER_00 3:50

He just sat in silence and he he waited five or ten seconds and goes, I don't get the joke. And that sounds so silly, but that moment completely changed my entire life because I realized what a bubble is. He had no idea what I was talking about because if you grew up in a place where knock-knock jokes was not a concept, then that would make absolutely no sense. Of course, knock, knock, what kind of joke is that? And so I was probably 18 years old when this happened, and it just started me on this process of understanding that we're all in a bubble. And bubbles, it's not bad to be in a bubble. I fully admit I'm in a bubble, and everyone should. But the question is when you meet someone from a different bubble, should you be judgmental against them when they don't know something, when they mispronounce something? Even when they're coming across as rude, you know, uh they they might be a rude person, but it might just be they don't understand the culture of the bubble, they don't understand the vocab, the the terminology. So whenever I had a chance, my goal was to get outside my bubble, because I just thought whenever I am outside my bubble or or meeting someone of a different bubble, that's when I really grow as a person. When you stay inside the comfort of your own bubble, you don't really learn much. You don't really grow as a person. But I know you've traveled a lot too. I'm sure you have similar stories. But for me, it was just from 18, I'm gonna do everything I can to leave my bubble because A, that's where I learn. But B, you get a lot of funny stories and it's a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_01 5:35

What are I I love this concept of the bubble? Um, we're gonna probably circle that a lot today. Can the bubbles like merge where they're overlapping, or do both bubbles have to burst and then you kind of create a new bubble with the two of you or the the group you're with? How does that how does that work? Help me, let's think through that.

SPEAKER_00 5:54

How does the analogy work? Yeah. Some people have said, you know, when I say it's time to get outside your bubble, I've heard people say, no, don't get outside your bubble. Expand your bubble. Um, you know, I I I I can see it kind of both ways. Um you can kind of think of it like a muscle. And, you know, when you're lifting weights, you kind of rip and destroy your muscles, and then it grows back a little bit bigger. That's kind of like a bubble. You're in a small bubble when you're isolated in your hometown and you only know a few people. And as you as you meet other bubbles, you collide with other bubbles, you have friction with other bubbles, then you slowly grow and your bubble expands. And so that that's another way to think of the metaphor.

SPEAKER_01 6:42

I love that. What are some examples beyond uh a knock-knock joke that you might be able to tell us some stories about?

SPEAKER_00 6:48

Absolutely. I mean, uh I'm embarrassed to admit, but I was judgmental for sure. I I grew up in southern Arizona, 40 minutes from the border of Mexico. And so, you know, we eat Mexican food. That's what we all eat here. And I I remember as a kid being at a Mexican restaurant. I must have been 10, 12, young. I was young, and I overheard someone at another table ordering food, and he said something, uh, I'd like a burrito and I'd like a flower tortilla. And uh as a Tucsonin, that is like the most absurd thing. And I remember laughing, you know, not I was laughing at him. I I was mean, I was I was rude. I remember as a kid, someone from another state was trying to make conversation. I was probably in middle school something, and they asked me what sports do you play? And they asked me if I was on the ski team. And I you're from Arizona. I I I laughed at them. I had never seen snow. And so, you know, of course there's no snow. And and I I was I was mean, maybe, you know, I was a kid, but I just how could someone not know that? And it's when you travel and you're in someone else's bubble and the tables are completely turned, and now it's your turn to make those social faux pas, those um ignorant statements that are not born of malice. It's not because they're mean or dumb people or anything like that, but you just don't know things that are outside your bubble. And it it wasn't until that happened to me where I made a mistake and people laughed at me, and I thought, hmm, maybe I'm a little too tough on the tortilla guy.

SPEAKER_01 8:35

Maybe just a little. I think it is really easy to have the worldview you have and forget that other people have different worldviews. Um what were some of the things that traveling abroad taught you about your home here?

SPEAKER_00 8:57

Sometimes it's good and sometimes it's bad. Sometimes you appreciate things uh and sometimes you feel embarrassed about things at home. I remember I I lived in Korea for two years, South Korea for two years, and I mean this is an embarrassing story a bit, but I remember I had a tutor, a Korean tutor, and she was teaching me how to speak Korean. And we're studying late one day, and we're at a coffee shop or something, it's nine or ten o'clock, we go outside and it's dark. And so I was probably I don't know, I was young, 20, 21, something. And um it's dark outside, and I offered to walk the my tutor home. And I said, Would you like me to walk you home? And she said, Why why would you walk me home? And I said, Oh, you know, it's dark outside. Do you want me to just make sure you get home okay? And she said, Why would I not get home okay? And I'm uh well, I don't know, no reason, but just do you need help getting home or do you want me to walk you home? And she said, You're trying to go to my home? And I'm like, oh no. And so, oh, no, no, no, I just want to make sure you get home safe. And she's like, Why would I not get home safe? Why do you want to know where I live? And so complete blunder, and she thought I was I was making some some move on her, and that was absolutely not my intention at all. I was just trying to make sure she got home safely, and I it struck me like, oh, people in Korea don't think about safety like that because it's such a safe country. And so, to answer your question, once you kind of have that experience, you kind of think, wow, how how incredible would it be to live in a society where you didn't have to worry about street safety, where the whole concept of walking someone home is just completely ridiculous. And so I I remember I remember being very jealous and envious that they didn't have to think of that concept. I mean, how beautiful is that?

SPEAKER_01 11:08

That is that is really beautiful. I mean, I was surprised with you as you told that story. Um what if conversations with uh people from other cultures like beside about maybe how you grew up or the country that we're in, how have those conversations actually what have they revealed to you about yourself?

SPEAKER_00 11:36

A lot of things. It's very counterintuitive, but the best way to learn about your country is to leave it, and the best way to learn about yourself is to meet others. And it's it's counterintuitive. I I you know, if I'm trying to become an expert in the United States, why would going to another country uh help? I mean, this this kind of addresses your your last question too about what about the situation that that was a situation where I made a fool of myself and really became envious of Korea and its society. There's another story, again, embarrassing, but I remember talking to I was in Togo, which is a small country in in West Africa, and I had a I had hired a tour guide for a few days to show me around. And he was about my age, and I just like immediately gelled with this guy. Like we were about the same age, both kind of young, ambitious, getting ready to start their lives, excited about the life to come before us. And we talked for days, I mean, eight hours a day, just chatting, and I felt so similar to him in so many ways. And I had asked him a thousand questions, but one particular question I made a mistake and was was rude. I asked him what was his favorite movie, and he said he kind of thought about it and he said The Avengers. And I said, Okay. What um what about your favorite local movie? What's your favorite Togolese movie? And he thought for a second and he said, I don't think we have any Togolese movies. And I said, Really? W what do you mean? There's I mean, I said, What do you watch when you uh go to the movie theaters? And he sat there and said, I don't think we have a movie theater in Togo. And he said, I I don't think anyone could afford to go. And it was just like, oh, I felt so bad. Like that was not my intention to to sound elitist or to sound rich or something. I was genuinely just interested in it. And that's me in Korea. I said something ignorant and I offended someone, I'm sure, and I learned something. Here I also said something kind of offensive and came across as an elitist, rich American. But just the fact that a country wouldn't have a movie theater, I had never even conceptualized of a nation that could be like that. And so when you go back and see that any small town in America has a movie theater, and you just think, wow, like how grateful, and that's just an incredible thing that I had never thought to think of. I should be so grateful for having a movie theater in my hometown. I never thought about that. And here I was offending someone because I just completely assumed that countries made movies and countries had movie theaters. And at that time they had never made a movie and there was no movie theater in the entire country.

SPEAKER_01 14:48

Yeah. The things we take for granted.

SPEAKER_00 14:53

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 14:53

But it does traveling abroad definitely gives you different lenses to look at the world with. Talking about traveling abroad, so I I know that you so you were in the tech industry, COVID hit. Instead of just staying in an apartment during COVID and after and just probably working from home. Take us back to that decision when you went, hmm. I mean, I'm gonna be working from home. I might as well work from I might as well make home my the world. How how did you get there and um help us understand the ingenuity and maybe the courage that it took to go out and just pack a bag and leave?

SPEAKER_00 15:35

I don't know if it took much courage, but maybe just uh curiosity. I remember that in Silicon Valley, I I live in San Jose, California. At that time, I was living in in Northern California being a tech nerd, and I I read this statistic, and the statistic, this was back in 2017 after the election, and I read a stat just in the local news or something that said that about half of Americans voted for Trump, about half of Americans lived in a house with a gun, and about a third of Americans thought that the Adam and Eve story was literal truth, literal historic truth. And, you know, I'm not talking politics here. I'm just saying from San Jose's perspective, that is not the percentages that was I was surrounded by. Those thoughts percolated with me for three years, and COVID happened. And when my job went remote, I said, okay, this is my chance. Got rid of my apartment, sold all my things, packed up my car, and I moved to North Dakota. And in the next 18 or so months, I started in North Dakota and ended in Biloxi, Mississippi. And again, no political agenda, not trying to convince anyone. It had nothing to do with politics. It was just there's another part of my country that I'm out of touch with. And it was one of the greatest experiences of my entire life.

SPEAKER_01 17:47

I want to talk a little bit more, delve a little bit more into you having that realization. And instead of feeling right, like, oh, well, my bubble's the best bubble. You got curious and you went, I'm gonna I'm gonna call this courageous curiosity. Like I think it was courageous to go and put yourself in the middle of states you knew nothing about. Um I think so many people would just go, oh, I know my bubble, my bubble's safe, my bubble's right. And instead you went, like why instead of saying, Wow, I'm right and they're wrong, or those half or whatever. What what do you think it is maybe from growing up, maybe examples you've had, what was it that made you choose to be curious about what you didn't know instead of being maybe being judgmental about it?

SPEAKER_00 18:41

I don't know exactly. I'm not sure what it is. My first thought when I first read that statistic was embarrassment. And I felt embarrassed because by that point I lived in India and I had been in Korea, and I thought of myself as a very curious and worldly person, and yet here I am out of touch with my own countrymen and women, and it just didn't gel with what I thought about myself and about my my bubble. Um San Jose is very diverse, lots of people from all around the world, and so in San Jose, you'll you'll frequently hear, I love the diversity here, I love the people are from everywhere, which is which is true. But it's a particular bubble. Um, you know, you're not getting many people on on the a different political side or from other walks of life, everyone is in involved in tech. So, yes, it's diverse in a certain way, but in another way, actually, it's not. I kind of thought of myself as someone who spent a lot of time in other cultures, and here I am not understanding my own. I think it was a bit of shame, a bit of embarrassment. Like, how how am I so out of touch? How have I holed myself up in this one particular bubble? And the other thing is I don't know that my bubble in California is correct. Maybe in some parts it is, maybe in some parts it's not. Um, I had been humbled enough times in India and Korea to know that I'm sure that I have beliefs that are wrong. And of course I do and did. Um so I I never thought I know I'm right or anything like that. So I wanted to kick it off and say, I'm gonna go to a new place and meet different types of people and see how we're similar and how we're different. And the purpose was to learn. I'm not trying to evangelize in any way. There was no political feelings to it, really. But I don't know many farmers in San Jose, California. Let's go to a farming town. Let's go meet people and see see what they're like and how are we similar and how are we different.

SPEAKER_01 20:43

So you would go to a farming town, just keep going to the same cafe or whatever every day. Walk us through then how you started these conversations.

SPEAKER_00 20:53

Yeah. I mean, nine to five, I'm still have my same tech job. So, you know, I wasn't a tourist. I was during the day, I'm working. But maybe before work, I would join a gym and go to the gym. And after work, I would go to a few restaurants and try to become a regular there. I mean, of course I'm not, but in each place I would stay for between four and eight weeks usually. So a decent amount of time, but of course, I'm not a local by any means. Um, but if you see the same person at the gym a few times, or you see the same person at your butcher shop or or bakery where you buy bread, eventually after you see them a few times, people start talking, especially in small towns. Everyone's curious. And when you approach it with a curious mind, like, hey, I'm new here. Tell me what are the great things to do. You know, what tell me about what I should do this weekend. And people open up and people are happy to talk about their communities. And ah, let me tell you about this is a hidden gem, or you know, this is a park you should go to or something. And people are always Happy to talk about their home. And so when you approach it in a very curious way, they're happy to talk. You talk to the same person a few times. I remember just, hey, like, I've had such a good time talking to you. Next week, let's do you want to go get lunch or go get coffee or something? And people were so, sure, of course. And those conversations.

SPEAKER_01 22:22

Wait, wait, let's stop there. Because I want I I want our listeners to be able to, like, if they don't have these skills, I want them to develop them. So let's say I'm the local and we just had a little conversation. I'm like, oh, you got to go to my favorite flower garden, and this is a really cool museum that visitors love. And then you say, Hey, I enjoy talking to you. Let's hang out next week. And I go, Yeah, that sounds cool. How do you get from that exchange to locking in a time, locking it in, and making sure it happens? Because people a lot of times will go, Oh, yeah, yeah, I'd love to meet up sometime. And then you never see them again. So help us know how to take a relationship to the next level. And we'll go from there.

SPEAKER_00 23:05

Yeah. I think if you just say, like, oh, it's it's been so great to talk to you, and you mentioned your favorite restaurant, wherever, let's let's go there sometime and you can you can show me what to order. And then they say, sure, that sounds great. And then, you know, the benefit of this is these are usually smaller towns. This would be very difficult in San Jose. Um, but in a small lure town in North Dakota or in Mississippi or something, I think it was people are friendly, A, but B, maybe smaller town.

SPEAKER_01 23:38

What was the percentage of people that would say, yeah, cool? Or that would say, uh, I'm really busy, I'll get back to you, or something. Like did you have a high percentage of people saying yes?

SPEAKER_00 23:50

I'm trying to think if anyone said no. Um I mean, I'm not saying all plans always matriculated and actually happened. Oh, maybe we couldn't do it, or I have a meeting at that time, oh, they have to work late that day. But I think almost everyone would say, yeah, that sounds nice, and it could be something silly. Uh I remember once I had a favorite bakery in Bismarck, North Dakota, and they said I was talking to the same person who was the owner, and her husband had the same name as me. And so just a random connection, something like that. And um she said something like, Oh, me and my husband are gonna be at this barbecue. I don't remember if it was a fundraiser or something at the local zoo. Come by and stop by. And I I just went and I met them there, and then they introduced me to their friends and got to have some great conversations and kind of blend in with the locals and ask some questions, and it was fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 24:51

Wow. I love that. I know that you throughout these travels that you were a dedicated journalist. So you would after meeting people, so if you would journal, am I right on that?

SPEAKER_00 25:02

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 25:03

Do you ever like go back now and and read them?

SPEAKER_00 25:06

I do, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:07

Okay, so when you when you pick them up, what do you notice about yourself? What do you notice when you go back and read your journals from this very courageously curious time and these amazing conversations you had with strangers?

SPEAKER_00 25:24

Calling me a journalist is too kind. Uh I was not a journalist, but I did document kind of I went here, I talked to this person. You know, it's not it's not beautiful language, it's not artistic uh writing. It's just kind of documenting what was I doing, and when there was kind of an epiphany moment or something special, I would write it down. Um so it was cool to to see, you know, to reflect on those experiences. I've kind of taken some of my favorite epiphany moments and rewrote them in a a more beautiful way. And I have a a substack where I just post some of these as little essays, um, moments that define me while traveling, something like that. Sometimes in your journals, you're you're writing, went to this restaurant or had an elk burger for the first time or something, which is fun.

SPEAKER_01 26:14

But I love that you have that documented. Like you can always look back and remember when. Um has has been like writing and keeping a journal, is that something you've done most of your life?

SPEAKER_00 26:25

Not really. I mean, I'm a data analyst, so I work in numbers all day. I'm a total dork with uh many of the other people in the in the Bay Area. Okay But I have kind of had a thing where when I'm when I'm traveling, take some notes. And it could be a journal, it could be notes on your iPhone. I mean, it it doesn't have to be something sophisticated, but like when there is some moment that kind of shocked you or or changed you in some way, a moment that you want to remember.

SPEAKER_01 26:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:58

Um, I I always just tried to write it down.

SPEAKER_01 27:00

Sure, sure, super smart. Um let's turn this a little bit to talking about belonging, like specifically. Was there a time you traveled that you felt like you did not belong?

SPEAKER_00 27:16

Um not really. Obviously, in many places I'm not a local. It's very clear that I'm not a local. Um but I I think people are in general are pretty nice when you kind of say up front, like, oh, I'd love to learn about what it's like to live here, or meet you, or talk to you, or buy you a cup of coffee, or just take a walk in the park or something. Um I went to towns that are totally different than any place I've known. I've stood out. People have said, what's the deal with your accent? Um, I've had that all the time. But I never felt like people were being mean. Um I different, sure. But I I never felt like I couldn't belong, I couldn't have a conversation, I couldn't have lunch with people. I never felt like that.

SPEAKER_01 28:14

It sounds like you have a really um solid feel of belonging to yourself. Like you belong anywhere you go because you take yourself with you, right? Where do you do you feel like you felt like that your whole life? Or when did that sense of belonging to self, therefore I can belong anywhere I go, where where do you think that was cultivated from in your earlier life?

SPEAKER_00 28:40

I'm not sure. I mean, I I think when you grow up close to, you know, we grew grew up, my family grew up close to the border in Mexico. So, you know, in when people were talking about international things, it never really felt that far. You know, that's that's a 45-minute drive. Um, Tucson is about about half white, half Hispanic. I never thought people of a different race or a different country, if you're from Mexico, it didn't feel like some faraway place. A lot of people drive down there to go there for dinner. I mean, it's not a big thing. Um, I remember having friends from different, you know, their parents were immigrants from different places. So I never remember, hey, if we go to this friend's house, we're gonna eat Iranian food. If we go to this guy's house, we're gonna eat Indian food. I mean, it it never really felt like we're all friends, we all go to the same high school. So maybe, you know, part of my childhood is just there was a lot of people from different parts of the country, the world, they spoke different languages at home, and I just never really thought much of it. I'm sure that that helped. I think when you approach it and you come without a sense of evangelizing or um just my curiosity is there. I'm not I don't have any prejudice. I'm just trying to learn, just trying to meet people. I'm happy to share stories about my life if they're interested. I'm just happy to be there and happy to listen. I think people are receptive to that and they like to tell stories about their home, their community, their family. And so if you show up just curious, most people are gonna respond like, oh yeah, I'd love to talk about that with you.

SPEAKER_01 30:26

Wow. So it sounds to me like you're creating in the belonging podcast terms that you're creating belonging for people by seeing the unique gifts that they're bringing to the world. Who are you and tell me your stories? What that to me sounds like a really beautiful way to offer belonging. Um, I don't know that you've ever thought of it that way, but I would say you're you're definitely a creator of belonging.

SPEAKER_00 30:55

I think sometimes, I mean, specifically about belonging, I think sometimes people think their first thought is if they're from a different political party, if they're from a different state, if they're I couldn't belong with them. They're different than me. Either I'm discriminating against them or uh, they would probably discriminate against me. And I think that's kind of the first reaction in San Jose. Again, a very specific bubble. People say the most absurd things. Oh, I I I I would never go to the South because they wouldn't accept me as a Californian.

SPEAKER_02 31:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:32

I mean, that's just that's just not true. I think that's a self-inflicted uh wound. They don't even want to try because they just assume that people are going to discriminate against them. And I'm sure there's mean people everywhere, but that I think is a barrier in our own heads that we just couldn't get along. I'm a tech worker. I I would have nothing to talk to a farmer about. And I just think that's just wrong. And I think people have their space, you know, they think that they couldn't belong in some other space because of some difference. I'm sure that exists in some degree, but I think a lot of that is self-imposed. We don't we will don't even try to belong in other spaces because we just assume that they wouldn't respond well because I voted this way, or because I looked this way, or because I'm from this place. And that was just not my experience at all, and I think people should give it a try.

SPEAKER_01 32:37

Why don't more people talk to each other and talk to people that they're unfamiliar with? What do you think holds us back?

SPEAKER_00 32:46

I think in part we we place these barriers because it's easier to think of all people of the other party as dumb or people on the flyover states are like this, the coastal elites are like that. I think it's very easy to put people in boxes, and that's not just an American problem. People around the world put other people in boxes.

SPEAKER_01 33:10

Um I think it's why do you think we do that?

SPEAKER_00 33:13

It's easy to do that. It's very simple to just think everyone who voted for Kamala is a socialist, and everyone who voted for Trump is a fascist. It's very simple to put people into boxes like that. If you're on the West Coast, you're an elitist lib, and if you're a flyover, you're an ignorant farmer or whatever. You hear this type of language all the time, and it's too confusing. It's too difficult to realize, oh my gosh, there's a lot of nuance in these questions. And there's people in California that are not like that, and people that are in, I mean, there's all types of people everywhere.

SPEAKER_01 33:50

And so I think it's the being human.

SPEAKER_00 33:54

Yeah, I think it's a it's simple to put a person in a box. And I don't like that, obviously. I found so many counterexamples in California, in the Bay, left and right. And so I I'm just not really interested in those things anymore. Once you see enough counterexamples, you just think that's not really the case. And uh I one of the biggest takeaways from my digital nomad trip in America was I left an incredible optimist. And whenever you turn on the news, you hear lots of things about this country is hopelessly divided and we're on the brink of civil war, and all these type of um extravagant statements like that. And that was just not my experience at all. I mean, I think if you ask people very binary questions about do you like candidate A or B? Do you like Obamacare? Yes or no? Do you want to build a wall? Yes or no? You know, if you give people a binary type question like that, then they come out 50-50, and then people on the news say, aha, 50-50 shows division. But if you ask deeper questions to people, don't ask about wall or not, say, paint me a picture about what you think a fair immigration policy would be. Paint me a picture of what you would like this the future of the United States to look like. Paint me a picture about what healthcare sounds fair to you. And if you remove the triggering uh language, uh people paint pictures that are very similar. And I I just was so touched when people would paint that picture for me, and I would listen to it and think, I think a Californian would say that. I mean, it that sounds pretty close to to what I would hear in in the West Coast. And so I left feeling like, yes, America's got some issues, we have problems, but the moral bedrock, the foundation, the the ethical foundation, the moral compass of an American that's in the rural part, the urban part, the left, the right. I was so shocked and pleasantly shocked how similar I really felt Americans were despite being in very different bubbles, that I really do think we can figure this out and we're not that different.

SPEAKER_01 36:34

That's a a great challenge to to all of us to I think you're right. I think it's easy to be in the box or the bubble. It's just easier. It takes a lot more effort to stop and take a breath and look and say, wow, where let's find our similarities, find what we're what we both care about deeply. Um and I'm really grateful that you're really shining a light on that uh to us today because I think we I know I can be better at it. Spending so much time thinking about belonging. You see how much it hurts people when they don't belong. And yeah, it's we so if quickly default to us and them. And so I really love this conversation. You just make it so simple. Like I love your prompt of paint me a picture. What does it look like? Um I'm gonna use that this week. I love that. Okay, so reading through your Substack and some of your, you know, what the work I could get my hands on. There was a few words that kind of kept coming to me through through your writings and through your epiphanies. And so uh here's what I'd like to do. Let's try this. Um, there's four words, well, five. One of them is two words. I just want to say the word and I want you to tell me what what that word means to you or if a story comes up about that word. And let's see if this works. I haven't tried this before in a podcast, so you ready?

SPEAKER_02 38:04

Sure. Okay, the first word is returning. Hmm.

SPEAKER_00 38:16

I don't think I have a specific memory that goes with that, but I think it's leaving your bubble and coming back to a bubble, you have fresh eyes. And so whenever you go somewhere and then when you come back, you don't see it in the same way. That's why people always talk about there's culture shock when you leave, and there's reverse culture shock when you come back. I think that's it's related to the when you come back part. You know, what how do you see the world a little bit different?

SPEAKER_01 38:46

Okay, so maybe we don't truly ever return to the same place because we're a different person now.

SPEAKER_02 38:52

Or a different thinking person. A different knowing person. Okay, second word. Remembering.

SPEAKER_00 39:08

I think listening to other people's stories um helps you. I'll tell an example about about that. I remember once I I met this guy in in Kenya. I have a substack about this one. Um I was in Kenya and I actually didn't know him. We were meeting for the first time, but he was a friend of a friend, and so we were both IT nerds, and so we went out to lunch, and I remember we were sitting there talking and totally vibing well, both young professionals, both in IT. Uh, he was a local Kenyan, and he was telling me about something, and then he said that he recently had gotten married. And I said, Oh, that's that's so great. Congratulations to you. And he said something like, Yeah, yeah, it's beautiful, but you know, it was really hard. And I said, Why was it hard? And he said, Uh, I'm Kiku Yu, and she's from the Luo tribe, so you can imagine how difficult that would be. And I I just looked at him and said, like, I'm sorry, I I actually don't know what that means. And it was like, it was a simultaneous epiphany. I was thinking, how in the world does he think that I would know what that means? Yeah. And he was having the epiphany of, like, oh my gosh, I've never met a person who didn't understand the cultural ramifications of a Kikuyu tribes member marrying a Luo tribes member. And so we had this like simultaneous epiphany, and then he was explaining to me, like, oh, there this tribe votes in a politically different, and one's from the east, one's from the west, and that causes different. And he's explaining this, and you can tell as he's explaining it to me, he's never articulated this in his entire life. It's just so embedded in the culture to understand that those are two tribes that have political differences. And so he's explaining something like I'm a child. I mean, not he wasn't being condescending, but like he had never articulated this. And so it just having him tell a story, something simple like I got married. I learned a lot about the country. And he also learned about what is common knowledge. The definition of common knowledge is a relative statement. For me, never met anyone who's ever known anything about those two tribes having conflicts. And for him, he had never met a person. Yeah. He had never met a person who could even conceptualize that they didn't understand how difficult that union would be. And so those types of moments are really special to me because I learn a lot, they learn a lot, simultaneous epiphany.

SPEAKER_01 41:55

I mean, nothing better. Yeah, yeah. That's uh thank you for remembering that for us. That was very that was what a great story. There is so many things, so many things in that story that uh bear some uh deep thinking about. Um okay, word number three, recognizing.

SPEAKER_00 42:15

Um I think this is kind of related to my feelings about Korea or Togo. It's great to recognize the beauty of other countries. Wow, a country of 53 million people in South Korea who have never thought about walking home in fear. It's good to recognize that other countries are like that, and maybe America should emulate that a little bit better. What can we learn from the Koreans so that we can have safer streets for our people? To recognize that I think is important. And then to also recognize the great things that we have about the country, to just say, like, oh, I I had never considered when I go to the movies that I was speaking from a position of privilege. But I am, and I should be more grateful. I never think about it, but when I go see a movie, that is a a source of privilege that I should take seriously and and be thankful for. So I think recognizing where we can go societally and the good things about our society take a second to recognize that and enjoy that.

SPEAKER_01 43:26

Yeah, absolutely. Alright, number four, sort of uh piggybacks on number three.

SPEAKER_00 43:33

Becoming recognizable I guess it's related to my my earlier statement too. I hope I'm not repeating myself, but just the um you know, when you go to a new place, sometimes people feel invisible and thus they they don't belong in some way. Um but when you go to a store and And people know you by name and wave to you. Hey, good to see you again. You are become a recognizable place. It makes you feel like you do belong. You're not an other. And so I don't like it when we put other when we other rise people. I mean, I think we do that all the time. And I don't like that. I think it's um it's a type of prejudice. It's it's kind of offensive. Uh, but I think we do that for for simplicity, like we said before. So when you go to a new town or or go to a new school or anything, and people recognize you, they kind of know your name, or if in maybe not your name, they just recognize that you are here and you deserve to be here. I think that's um it makes you feel accepted and and um part of the community. And I mean, my advice to to people is when they feel like they're not, don't be so afraid. People are not gonna shut you out and kick you out. It's not like that. Go in with some curiosity and smile on your face, uh excited to learn. And most people in this country are very excited to share about themselves and their communities, and they're happy to have you. When I was in town and I had made friends, I used to always ask, What do you think it would be like if I decided to move here? They've only known me a few times from buying bread or buying something from their their store. And you know, you build up a bit of a rapport and you kind of say, I like this place. What would it be like if I moved here? Yeah. Like, welcome in. Every place I went, I asked that question, and every place said, Yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_01 45:51

Just putting yourself out there to be welcomed in. It's such a great example of belonging that you've given us. Just sort of, I I'm gonna even say assuming belonging. You're like, I I want to be here and I want to, you're you know, you're walking in with such an open heart where you're like, tell me about you. What a it's just such a great example of choosing to belong where you are, wherever that is. Um that's how I would summarize our our time together today. Um Wesley, thank you for setting the stage for us to be able to be a little bit more courageous, to choose to connect with people who are not in our bubble, so that we can learn about their bubble and we can expand. Uh if there's one thing you want to leave the audience with today, what would that be?

SPEAKER_00 46:48

I guess the last thing I would say is reject the ridicule culture that is prevalent in the United States now. It's not on left and right. Um everyone kind of is is ridiculing other people. There's a lot of shows on YouTube where they say stuff, you know, the title of the show is watch this Trumper get destroyed by facts or watch this lib. There's a lot of this type of content out, and it's popular and sometimes are funny, but I would say we should reject that type of content. It's not productive. And even if that person did say something that absurd and that funny or whatever, when you are outside of your comfort zone, you also say ridiculous things. And I had to learn this when I got outside of my bubble. Now I'm offending people and I'm saying silly things. And so it's very easy to sit in the comfort of your own bubble with people that think like you and ridicule and laugh at and make fun of people that are different, that are stupid, that don't understand the social cues of your circle and laugh at them. And that's become very cool. It's very comfortable to do that. And I recommend that everyone rejects that type of content because A, you kind of feel superior. Ha, how could they not know those things? But really, if I put you in a certain situation and I put a microphone in front of you and asked you to talk about what's your opinion of the Kikuyu and Luo, you would also look like a fool. And how do I know that? Because I've been there and I've looked like a fool many, many times. And so I'm allergic to this type of content. I admit in other times I've laughed at those videos and thought they were funny, just as I laughed at the ski person and the tortilla guy. But that's not a good way, that's not a good thing to do. And so I hope when we see this type of content, these comedians, these YouTubers making fun of others, reject that. Reject that paradigm.

SPEAKER_01 48:56

Reject the ridicule. Fantastic note to leave one. Wesley, thank you so much for your time here today on the podcast. We really, really appreciate the depth of experience of your lifetime that you've brought and shared with us.

SPEAKER_00 49:11

Thank you very much. It's been a pleasure.

SPEAKER_01 49:14

This has been another episode of the Belonging Podcast by Elevate Villages. Genuusly underwritten by Deanna Laughlin. Thank you so much for making this podcast possible, Dee. And until next time, let's go out there and all build belonging together.