Lit on Fire
“Welcome to Lit on Fire — the podcast where literature meets controversy, where banned books, silenced voices, and dangerous ideas refuse to stay quiet. From classrooms to courtrooms, novels to news cycles, we explore how stories challenge power, expose injustice, and ignite social change.
Our logo — a woman bound atop a burning stack of books — isn’t just an image. It’s a warning and a promise. A warning about what happens when voices are erased… and a promise that stories, once lit, are impossible to put out.
So if you’re ready to question, to argue, to feel uncomfortable, and to think deeper — you’re in the right place. This is - Lit on Fire.
Lit on Fire
Blood on Her Tongue by Johanna van Veen
A coffin scratches, a sister rises, and nothing about identity or desire looks the same afterward. We take you inside Johanna von Vein’s Blood on Her Tongue, a gothic horror that swaps fangs for a parasite and turns the genre’s mirror toward patriarchy, power, and the right to survive. From the moody boglands to a drawing room where medicine becomes a muzzle, we trace how the novel uses body horror to ask a sharper question: if memory, love, and history remain, who has the authority to say a person is gone?
We start with the classic setup—letters, a mysterious decline, a death that doesn’t hold—then dig into the rupture that follows. Lucy, long eclipsed by her twin, faces a new Sara who is louder, hungrier, and truer to the life she could never claim. That hunger is more than flesh; it’s voice, sex, and selfhood in a time that calls women’s agency an illness. We talk through the book’s feminist spine: doctors who diagnose disobedience, a husband who confuses need with entitlement, and a social order that teaches women to apologize for breathing. The novel argues that vampirism isn’t a creature so much as a system that feeds on your future while calling it love.
Along the way, we explore queerness as truth under siege—Aunt Adelaide’s erased companionship, Sara and Katya’s stifled devotion, and Lucy’s desire exploited in grief—and how the parasite reframes “monstrous” as a demand to live. We press on the hardest moral knot: when survival requires harm, what counts as justice, and who gets to name the monster? By the end, we land on a fierce, messy liberation where personhood is a flame carried forward, not a body locked in place.
If you’re into gothic fiction, feminist horror, identity philosophy, queer narratives, and books that leave you arguing with the lights on, hit play, subscribe for our next reads, and leave a review to tell us where you stand on the final moral choice.
Welcome to Lit on Fire, the podcast where literature meets controversy, where banned books, silenced voices, and dangerous ideas refuse to stay quiet. From classrooms to courtrooms, novels to news cycles, we explore how stories challenge power, expose injustice, and ignite social change.
SPEAKER_01:How Lego, a woman bound top-a brainstorm books, isn't just an image. It's a warning and a promise. A warning about what happens when voices are raised, and a promise that stories when split are impossible.
SPEAKER_00:So if you're ready to question, to argue, to feel uncomfortable, and to think deeper, you're in the right place.
SPEAKER_01:I'm Vita Wetzel.
SPEAKER_00:And I'm Elizabeth Hahn.
SPEAKER_01:And this is Lit on Fire.
SPEAKER_00:Welcome back. Today we're diving into Blood on Her Tongue by Johanna von Vein, a novel that blends gothic horror with a powerful story about voice, repression, and survival. This isn't just a scary book. It's a story about what happens when someone is forced to swallow their truth, when fear, trauma, and social control push a person to the edge. So let's get into it.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, Liz, you first. What was your overall take?
SPEAKER_00:So my overall take, as far as a rating is concerned, is a four plus. I think it's going to be a five. But I really felt with this book, and others may feel it too, that you need to read it a second time. The biggest reason for me is that as a literature teacher, I already tend to take in preconceptions, you know, with my read and with a gothic novel and with something that appears to be a vampire book. But I was very much surprised by this book. Um, I do not believe it is a traditional vampire book. So I don't label it that way, but I really loved it.
unknown:Good.
SPEAKER_01:I loved it too. For me, I'm going to put my whole faith in it and give it a five-star, but I totally understand what you're saying about you could reread this book's book over and over and unpack more and more of it. As we've already found, it's there's so much in it, it's almost too long to fully discuss in detail. Right. And that's what I loved about it. And as far as Gothic literature goes, it's up there as one of my favorite two books. The other one being Mexican Gothic. You're the self-proclaimed expert. Well, you are the expert. You're always telling me the gothic horror that I need to read. Right. And it's an acquired taste, I think you'd agree, right?
SPEAKER_00:Yes, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01:And what I loved about this book is it had great pacing and it had a lot of really gory horror elements, and it just kept me so interested all the way in. And it subverted all of my expectations.
SPEAKER_00:It absolutely did. And I listened to some of the audio on this book, and even my 14-year-old would say that I would not stop playing it. Like she picked up on little pieces of this because I'd be in the car and we'd be going someplace, and I was playing it because I did not want it to stop. It is really that good.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. So we're gonna go ahead and give you a quick synopsis of the book, okay? Uh so there will be some spoilers, but there's like I said, there's so many details in this book to unpack. I'm gonna leave a whole bunch out. So there'll be plenty for you to discover if you read it. So, first, our main cast of characters. So our main character is Lucy and her twin sister, Sarah. In this way, we have a very traditional start to the gothic book, right? She gets a letter from Sara that sounds a bit crazy, that she's not well, and then she gets another letter from Mikael saying, Hey, your sister's really not well, she could use you. Mikael is Sara's husband, excuse me, and come and take care of her. Right. Okay, that's a very, very classic gothic setup.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. Something weird is going on. Please come check this out.
SPEAKER_01:Right. And so Mikael, I mentioned, is uh Sara's husband. Then there's Sara's doctor, Arturo, who has actually been their friends since they were children. Right. And now he's been taking care of Sara as she supposedly is recovering from this physical and mental decline. There are some important side characters. We have Mrs. Van Dyke, who is the old woman that Lucy is a companion to. Right. We have Katya, who grew up as a ward of Mikael's house because she was orphaned early.
SPEAKER_00:And she's still very young. She's a young woman.
SPEAKER_01:And we have Magda, one of the housemates, and she's she's basically Sara's chambermaid. And then we have Aunt Adelaide. Adelide, am I saying that right? Yes. Who is a person from Lucy and Sara's childhood, their aunt who basically raised them.
SPEAKER_00:Right. And she's not actually a character in the book, but we hear about her in their memories and experiences.
SPEAKER_01:We find out that uh after she raised them, eventually she was had to be institutionalized for some reason.
SPEAKER_00:Correct.
SPEAKER_01:And so there's been this history of mental health issues in the family going all the way back to the aunt, which is why Lucy is very concerned about Sara right now. Because even Sara has a history of mental health ill illness because she had kind of a breakdown losing her child, and she recovered from that, and now Lucy is worried that she's having a similar breakdown. The big threat is that she doesn't want Sara to be institutionalized like their aunt was.
SPEAKER_00:Correct.
SPEAKER_01:And so that's why she's going to take care of Sara and make sure that doesn't happen. Right. So, real quickly, Sarah and Mikael found a body in the bog that is on their property. Right. And it was very mysterious. And Sara went out to see it. She drew it, she was there for the autopsy. There were a lot of strange things about this body. It had no organs. There was something really strange that they found in its head. But we really don't know what's going on. After they find this body, Sara starts to have her mental decline. And she writes a letter saying that there's someone who's trying to kill her. Right. She keeps saying, She's trying to kill me. She's trying to kill me. And Lucy doesn't know what that means, but she gets there, Sarah still declines. She declines to the point where she actually, in a moment of desperation, kills herself. Sara stabs herself through the eye with a pencil, and for all intents and purposes, she dies. Right. And she's dead for three days, and Lucy sits up with her to, you know, be at the wake for the body. And she's still sitting with her when they're at the funeral, and she's already been sealed in the coffin when she starts to hear scratches in the coffin.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_01:And she realizes Sara is not dead, she's actually alive. And she convinces Arturo to help her open the coffin.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_01:We have a weird moment where he decides to propose to her at that moment, which is really strange.
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:And the only way she's able to convince him is by saying, Hey, I'll consider it. Anyway, they open the coffin, Sara pops up, says, Finally, I'm so fucking hungry.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Which is completely out of character.
SPEAKER_01:Right. And this is the turning point in the story. And what we discover is that although it appears Sara has come back to life, her personality is completely changed. She's swearing like a sailor. She's refusing to eat anything at all. And Lucy begins to be very suspicious that maybe there's more to Sara's apparent recovery than she that meets the eye. And she discovers the story of the bogwoman, and it's very similar to what happened to what's happening to Sara right now. And this story convinces her that Sara is not actually her sister, Sara, but she's been replaced by some other thing. And so she confronts Sara about it. Sara initially tries to gaslight her and deny it, but eventually we find out that Sara has been replaced by some kind of parasites that passes from body to body. And when Sara exposed herself to the bog woman, it gave this parasite access to her. I won't go into all the details how, but now the parasite is Sara. And it has absorbed all of her memories, right?
SPEAKER_00:Her memories, her feelings, her personality.
SPEAKER_01:She all of it. She loves Lucy like a sister. But essentially, the original Sarah is dead. And the only thing that is preserving her is the fact that this parasite now has internalized. Has internalized. And so then we get the question of okay, is Lucy is this really Lucy's sister? Right. Because the parasite argues, I'm still your sister. For all intents and purposes, I'm your sister. But Lucy has to come to terms with that. Also, the parasite has to feed off of people. And so there's a moral dilemma because in order to fully recover from everything that's happened to Sarah's body, she's needed a human. And she needs Lucy's help with that.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_01:And so we won't get into everything that happens, but that is the big dilemma of the story. Now we'll get into some of the questions it raises, both morally and ethically, and also socially and culturally. So let's get into it. Liz, first off, why is this not a vampire story?
SPEAKER_00:Well, I think on the surface, clearly, it's a parasite. It's not like we have this undead creature biting someone, infecting them, and then taking over that aspect of their life or denying them life, and now they're undead. In that case, we would still have the same person. But clearly with the parasite, we get like a whole new version of Sara on some level. So there's that on the surface. But for me, what this really is, is it is a story of vampirism, just not vampires. So Thomas Foster in How to Read Literature Like a Professor, which I take into my classroom all the time, says that vampirism is whenever anything is draining the life out of someone else or out of a town or out of any organism or thing in a story. So for me, there are vampires in this book, but it's not Sara or the parasite. It's the society, it's the men that are in the book. And initially, it's actually the original relationship between Sarah and her sister. So there are several scenarios set up that are vampiric because one person is being drained of life or personality or human rights, but it's not traditionally a vampire story. Now, that does not say that there's not some really gross stuff in this and it doesn't have the great horror and the gothic elements to it, but von Vein really turns this on its head for me.
SPEAKER_01:Right. The real monster in this, the real vampire, if you will, is the patriarchy. It all comes back down to the patriarchy, and all of the woes of the main characters really stem from there. All the female characters in this book are living less of a life in some form or way because the patriarchy drains all of their opportunities and all of their dreams and desires.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_01:And that even affects some of the women's relationship with one another.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_01:For example, the differences in personality between Lucy and Sara. So my take on Lucy's personality is that she's more introverted, she's more thoughtful, and she's more submissive. Right. Whereas Sara is a lot more extroverted and more outgoing, and she tends to dominate. And she's been doing that to Lucy her entire life, right? So Lucy's always lived in her shadow. As a matter of fact, she even basically stole Lucy's dream life from her by marrying Mikael because we find out that Lucy met Mikael first and was immediately attracted to him. And it seemed like he was attracted to her. But the moment she introduces her to Sara, suddenly all of his attention goes to Sarah and she's left behind.
SPEAKER_00:Because, yeah, Sara's personality is larger than life. She's enthusiastic. Her beauty shines through more because of that enthusiasm and that confidence she has. And the sad thing is that while I agree Lucy is introverted, you can tell also that Lucy wants to be able to be like that too. She just has never been given the opportunity to be like that. She's always been kind of the support system for her sister and not necessarily an individual herself. So that is definitely for me the first moment we have a vampiric setup. And ultimately, it is in a way set up by this man that comes into both of their lives. And then also perhaps by their father prior to that.
SPEAKER_01:Right. And the interesting thing is although Sara takes the life Lucy wants, we discover that it's not actually the life Sara wanted for a very particular reason. Correct. And that's very ironic. But we'll get into that. The other difference that I found in the personalities was their different attitude towards life and death.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_01:So from early on in their childhood, we get this story of Aunt Adelaide giving them a worm, showing them this worm that she gets from the ground. She's very earthy, apparently. And she hands it to Sarah, and the very first thing that Sarah does is she tears it in two and kills it and gives half of it to Lucy. And Lucy's just appalled. She's very sad by that. Then we get this other story about this old woman on a train smashing a spider that Lucy tries to save because she's so re repulsed by it. Lucy initially tries to put it in an envelope, but the lady won't have it. She knocks it up her hand and just stomps on it.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_01:And we get other details about Sara, right? Not only the worm detail, but also the fascination with the bog woman. She's absolutely just obsessed for whatever reason with this death.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_01:And having lost a child as well, there's an element there where she doesn't deal with death well.
SPEAKER_00:Right. But she is fascinated by the bog woman and wants to research who was this woman? What life did she lead? What's going on with her? Why was she buried in the strange way she was buried? Because we get all kinds of descriptions of the body. So it's her obsession there where Lucy would not have had that obsession. Lucy is more concerned with life.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, she's she's a nurturer. And that plays very key into the role that she's always played in Sara's life. And which has already kind of lived in her shadow.
SPEAKER_00:Which is a stereotypical feminine role, right? You can be a nurturer. Sara wants to be an academic, wants to read, wants to investigate, wants to be there at the autopsy for this bog woman like the man. Lucy is always in the position of, I'm going to take care of you. I'm going to nurture you. I'm going to look after you. When you are unwell, when you have a mental breakdown, I'm going to be there for you. Always placing herself in a secondary position.
SPEAKER_01:Right. So some of the key themes in this book that come up throughout the story are feminism.
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:Power differential between the patriarchy and the women at the time. Right. Sexuality.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_01:Mental health. What makes you you.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_01:And how far do we take a living being's right to survive?
SPEAKER_00:Correct.
SPEAKER_01:So let's go ahead with feminism first.
SPEAKER_00:Right. So I think clearly we've got uh female voices in this book subverted. We are living in the 1800s. We are dealing with kind of that Victorian pr repression of women on some level. And we have these women that have very little control over their own lives. I mean, this is the time when women cannot own property, women cannot open a bank account. Women do not do things without their husbands. The husbands have absolute control. So female voices are just subverted on a societal level. But then we have kind of the individual relationships that play out in the story as well. So Lucy initially can't speak because she's just the submissive sister and she's always having to step to the side. But as we deal with Sara being sick, we see very quickly that Mikhail, the husband, and Arturo or Arthur, the doctor, um, and family friend, they don't really give any credence to any explanation for what's going on with Sara other than she's a woman and she's having an emotional decline and she's become hysterical, and now we have to deal with it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that overall diagnosis of female hysteria. Female hysteria. Any departure from the perceived feminine role would be looked at as a mental illness. Even feminism itself. Right. And there's this sort of Namicles that's custling hung over a woman's head at the time, I can put you away if you don't conform.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Or I can burn you at the stake. Or I can't. Right.
SPEAKER_01:Exactly. Exactly.
SPEAKER_00:Right. So that is very traditional in the story. Then to add a layer onto that, we have the aspect of female sexuality and a right of a woman to be a sexual being in this society. And that has always been, you know, a thing that has plagued women throughout time, is whether we have autonomy over our bodies and whether that includes our ability to express ourselves in a sexual way. We have initial, you know, hints of lesbianism right up front.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. Right.
SPEAKER_00:So with the aunt, Aunt Adelaide, who's ultimately put in an institution and she's the earthy one who's showing the girls all these things, she has a female companion who is with her all the time, and she is clearly in love with this woman. This is a lesbian relationship. And part of what gets her put in the institution, they take that woman away from her. They take that woman away from her, and then she has a mental breakdown, and then they institutionalize her from that point forward, which is simply a way to subvert her voice and her sexuality and place her away because she is unsatisfactory or unacceptable the way that she behaves. So that happens first with Adel Height. Well, it takes you a while, but then you realize the same story is going on with Sara. Then even though this parasite is a thing, the real issue with Sarah, I think, underneath, her husband describes her as cold. And then we realize that Sara is also in love with a female. Katya. Katya, who is the orphan that's been living in the house as a ward. And she is a young woman and they have developed a relationship together. And so even before this parasite is a thing, there's this underlying Sara does not act the way she is supposed to act. And obviously she and Mikhail had a child together, that child dies. That's I think that's the symbolism of death in their relationship, because that relationship is not real. What is authentic for Sarah are her feelings for Katya. So we have that aspect of sexuality. And lastly, it's Lucy's sexuality.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. Because we learn that throughout all of Sara's mental and emotional ups and downs, Lucy has been manipulated into a sexual relationship with her husband, Mikael. And she was, of course, in love with Mikael. So he takes advantage of her by saying when Sara first has her mental illness that he needs comfort.
SPEAKER_00:When his daughter dies.
SPEAKER_01:When his daughter dies. He needs comfort. He needs comfort. And so they start to have this illicit relationship that Lucy feels terribly guilty about. But it's important that we see how Mikhail kind of manipulates her and gaslights her and maneuvers her every single time into providing him this sex.
SPEAKER_00:Right. And he does the same thing when Sara dies. And then we turn around, even bes before Sarah has been buried, before the funeral has taken place, Mikhail is propositioning Lucy, says, I need you. As she's in her sister's empty room grieving and looking at her sister's dressing table and everything else, Mikhail comes in and has sex with her. And it's because of his needs in that moment. So the pressure and the manipulation and the grooming and stuff and the taking advantage of her weakness is very prevalent. Right, right. So those are our real feminist themes in a lot of way. And they all stem from that patriarchal society that's been set up. And I think, you know, it persists throughout the book until we have moments of liberation later.
SPEAKER_01:Right, yes. And and here's where I like the idea that the whole story might be a metaphor.
SPEAKER_00:Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01:Not just mental illness, but also coming into your sexuality and into your empowerment.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_01:Because at the time the sexuality uh would have been treated like a mental illness.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_01:And and so as long as it is treated like that, it personifies itself like that.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_01:Right. But then we have this turning point where Sara becomes not Sara, but also more like Sara than she ever has been before.
SPEAKER_00:Correct. So when she wakes up and she says, I'm fucking hungry, you know, and she is cussing and she is being a lot more vocal. I don't think it's that the parasite has taken control and is not Sara at all. I think the parasite is finally giving voice to who Sara really is. And that hunger is beyond the physical need for blood or food or anything like that. It is the need for sex, the need for a voice, the need for a relationship. She wakes up hungry.
SPEAKER_01:So is the whole time when she's fighting the parasite to the point where she has to kill herself, is struggling with her coming to terms with her. Sexuality and the life that she wants. And her identity. And the identity and the life that she really wants. So she has to kill her old idea of herself in order to embrace fully her new idea.
SPEAKER_00:She doesn't technically realize that, but yes, I think that's exactly what the author is doing is we kill the old Sara to have the new Sara reborn. And it is a devastatingly gruesome description and experience. It's horrific. And it really makes you feel like you're in the midst of this terrible horror story where this woman is decomposing in front of you and then she stabs herself in the eye. And I mean, you can see this playing out on movie screen and just everyone cringing, but this is the transformative moment.
SPEAKER_01:Right. And so then we can see the rest of the book as Sarah's attempt to get Lucy to come on board with this new her.
SPEAKER_00:Right. And with a new Lucy.
SPEAKER_01:And in order to do that, they got to kill the patriarchy.
SPEAKER_00:Right. And so that's ultimately what has to happen. And it takes Lucy a while. And I like the authenticity of that. Because even though it frustrated me to no end, when women have been groomed and raised in an environment that has taken complete control of them and complete control away from them.
SPEAKER_01:It takes a lot to break those chains.
SPEAKER_00:It does. And so you see the struggle. And initially it's just the struggle that is this my sister, this thing that's cussing over here and clearly has killed her. You know, is this parasite my sister? Or and that's the initial struggle, but then it's can I help her? Can I take the steps and become the person I need to become in order to help her survive and in order for us to both live authentically? And that is not necessarily what the character herself realizes, but it's clearly the scenario that Von Vein is setting up for the development of this ending where these female characters are liberated. Right.
SPEAKER_01:And that's where we go if we take it all as a metaphor. And I think it's I think it can also be both. It can be metaphor and literal horror. So if we take it as literal horror, then the first big question we get is what makes you you? Right. And not Sarah's argument is your sister is in here. She's all the memories, the emotions, the feelings that I have towards you still. I'm preserving her. She's still preserved to me. She's not really, really dead.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_01:And Lucy's take is no, you killed her. And you replaced her. Right. And you replaced her. She has to come to terms. Is having all of the memory and personality of my sister enough to make this person my sister?
SPEAKER_00:And it's enough for Katya. Because Katya accepts it right away. And that relationship is strong and probably stronger because not Sara, as Lucy says, acts out that sexuality the way that Sara always wanted to. Right. So Katya and not Sara suddenly have this relationship come to f fruition that maybe would not have gone that way if Sarah had continued to live the way she had lived before in that relationship with her husband. So when we kill the patriarchy, obviously we have to take out the men in the book. And there is, of course, a moral question there as that happens at the end, and not Sarah needs to feed. And clearly these men are the most obvious targets as we get to that point. And you can sit there and go, oh my God, it's gratuitous killing of these people. And clearly there's like a problem there. And how can Lucy go forward with that type of life?
SPEAKER_01:But the parasite's just another animal wanting to survive.
SPEAKER_00:That's correct. And besides that, they are already being killed by what the men are doing to them. Right. So this is an act of self-defense, as far as I'm concerned. It's self-defense because not Sara needs to survive and is sent has the right to survive. And it's also that the women have a right to live, and they can't. It is made clear in multiple ways that they are not going to be able to live with those men.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. Yeah. One of the imageries that I love about this book, so consistent throughout, is how things that are not perfect, beautiful, and strong are treated and completely written off. The spiders being crushed, the worm being, and even Mikael's revulsion at towards Sara's condition.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_01:And how then that all comes down to just because this animal may seem vile to some, is it truly a monster? Is it really not deserved to have a life as well?
SPEAKER_00:It's that classic Frankenstein question. You look at who is the monster in the book? And the monster in this book are the men. So if you look and the society that they have perpetuated, so if you look at it from that standpoint, we kill the monster in the end.
SPEAKER_01:Yes.
SPEAKER_00:And the heroes survive.
SPEAKER_01:And the heroes win.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So it is a great book. I absolutely love it. Yes. It is eat the patriarchy. We need to make that on a t-shirt. I think that's going to have to happen. So it is a great book. I love it. And the more we've talked about it, the more I realize it's going to have to be a five stars for me. It is just so powerful and creates such unique discussion. So do not go into it reading it like a vampire book, at least not traditionally, but go into it recognizing the vampirism and everything that's going on in the metaphor that exists, along with just a really good horror story.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. Yeah. If you don't want to think about it too deeply, it's still an amazingly dark horror story.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, it is, with wonderful descriptions and just wonderful creepy things.
SPEAKER_01:As long as you're not gross out by eyes being gouged out and smashed and people being eaten.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, people being eaten. So that being said, I heartily recommend this book. If you've read it already, then please feel free to comment on the things that you love about it and the thoughts that you have. Tell us what we're going to be reading next time.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, I'm super excited for the next two episodes, actually. We're going to be covering Kirsten Miller's The Change.
SPEAKER_00:Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01:And then what's essentially the follow-up sequel, The Women of Wild Hill. Yeah. And these were two of my favorite books of 2025, maybe my two favorite books of all time. Two of my favorite books of all time, and I cannot wait to discuss them.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, I'm so excited. She's one of my favorites. So until that time, keep reading, keep thinking deeply about these things. If you want to read The Cursed Millard, you can easily look that up on Amazon for next time or listen to it on Audible or Spotify. And we'll be excited to talk to you about that.