Koffee with Kaly Marie
Koffee with Kaly Marie
Wisdom in Conversation: Proverbs Two (Part 1)
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In this episode of Koffee with Kaly Marie, Kaly and Holly Woods dive into Proverbs 2:1–10 (TLV) to explore what biblical wisdom and discernment look like through a Messianic lens. With honesty, humor, and real-life insight, they unpack how wisdom from Adonai shapes everyday decisions and spiritual growth.
Coffee with Kaylee Marie. Let's increase our learning and obtain wise counsel. Grab your coffee and let's get started. Oh, do you hear that? That's wisdom calling. Let's answer that call. Hello, this is Coffee with Kaylee Marie, and today I have this very special guest with me, Holly. Hello, Holly. Hello, Kaylee. How are you, darling? Good. I'm so glad you're back. We did the Hanukkah episode and then you agreed to come back after that.
SPEAKER_01I'm shocked you uh asked me to come back. Um, only because I know that I tend to be very, you know, I can I I'm not everybody's cup of tea. A little bit about yourself. Okay, um, well, my name is Holly Woods, and yes, that's my real name. Um, uh, I am married, no children. Um, I have three cats and two dogs. That's another long story for another day. Uh, I have a background in medieval and renaissance history, as well as 30 years in herbalism and aromatherapy. Um, I'm few classes shy of a naturopathic doctorate. Um, it's expensive, so I had to take a break from that. I've been a teacher for 15 years. I've taught everything from kindergarten to 12th grade, public and private school. Um, and currently I am the financial secretary at our sec uh at our synagogue, Brent on the Santa Synagogue in Penskola.
SPEAKER_00You've been busy. Yes. You definitely um seek out wisdom and you're definitely learning for sure. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01I've had some really strange jobs from construction on houses, uh belly dancing. Um I've done some really weird stuff. But it's it's been a good life. It's I've I've I've had fun, I've learned, and um I've just turned 40 here in January, so I'm I feel like I'm finally growing up, and so like now it's like time to settle down and you're growing up, I know, right? And and to get serious about stuff, and I don't know, I think we all we all have that we thought we were gonna level up at some point, and then we realized that that that never really actually happens. Some of us are saying leveling up. Once we got into this walk, I realized the leveling up is when Yeshua comes back. So I was like, well, I guess we'll be waiting for a little longer than we'll. Oh my goodness.
SPEAKER_00Well, well, I am so glad you're here because we're gonna talk about Proverbs 2. Excellent. And um, so I'm gonna read the section and then we'll talk about it. Excellent. I am reading from the Tree of Life version. You can find it um if you have an iPhone or an Android, you can definitely download the app. It's a wonderful app, or you can go online and pull up the Tree of Life.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, Messianic.
SPEAKER_00Or if you have the actual TLV version like Holly and I do as we're recording, we're looking at it.
SPEAKER_01You can also go on, I think, the Messianic Jewish Family Bible Society um and get it from them straight up. They also um have a large print version for people like me who actually can't. This is not my large print version, but I do have the large print version because we all can't see. So, for those who need it, if you're 40 or under and you still need break print, there you go.
SPEAKER_00Sometimes it's just nice to have the big print. Sure. So, Proverbs 2. My son, if you accept my words and treasure my midspoke within you, making your ear attentive to wisdom, inclining your heart to discernment. Yes, if you call out for insight, lifting up your voice for discernment, if you seek her as silver and search for her as hidden treasures, then you will know the fear of Adani and discover the knowledge of God. Wow, Holly, there's so much. There's so much to unpack here. Yes. And we're not gonna unpack everything because I want to encourage everyone who's listening, like you have to study. You shouldn't take anything we say at face value. Absolutely. Um, you are to be a study of the word. And so. But let's um I I've actually talked with Rabbi Eric about the mitzvot, and we've talked about the feast, and um I'll start with this. How do you um what's one of the feasts that you love treasuring as that are as a part of the mitzvot?
SPEAKER_01Oh my gosh. Um, I think my one of my favorites is uh Sukkot. Um I love the imagery that we get with Sukkot of God dwelling amongst us um that that harkens back to Yeshua coming to be with us. Um it is a it's in my opinion, and many rabbis' opinion, that Yeshua will come back during the fall feast. So I love all the fall things because it's just it's like any minute he's gonna show up, we're gonna do it with him. And so the spring feasts are wonderful, and I'm very honored and blessed, and we enjoy them, but there's just something about the fall feast that's just very comforting to me. Um, no.
SPEAKER_00Is it about being outside? Because I mean, we do go in a we eat in a sukkode, sukka. Um, some of us sleep out there, some of us have to have a bed. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We don't necessarily sleep in a tent.
SPEAKER_01We do it in memorial because um we're supposed to go into the land of Israel um to do this, and so most of what we do as messianics are in memorial um simply because of um some constraints that we have, such as getting into the land. Um the same thing with Passover, there's supposed to be a sacrifice, you know, and most of the feast would have had a sacrifice in the temple. We have no temple, so we have to do a lot of these things in memorial, but I do think um the you know, however, we can do it, um, we just do the best that we can. We give God our best. Um, I don't mind sleeping outside. We actually bought a suka, we put it up this last year. We did not sleep in it this year because I really like to actually get furniture and actually make it like a second home during the whole week. And it's just in our backyard because we have pets, so it's kind of and they're used to sleeping with us, so this is going to be a challenge when we finally do. But we we would get up in the morning, have coffee in it, and sit in it and talk in it. And um MJ came and got to help us put it up, so she was just absolutely delighted in the process, and it was, it was just we're building it for Yeshua, we're building it for I don't like that was the fun part. It was like he comes to dwell with us in it, and uh I have some tapestries that go in it, so it is. I I'm with you, I think it's the outside stuff. The spring feast, not that you don't get outside, it's just there is more of an outside component. Uh, with Yom Turua, the the the day of the trumpet, you go outside um to do it. Um Yom Kippur is kind of an inside job, I think, most of the time, but doesn't say you can't go outside to do it. So that and and I do, I love the fall here in Florida. It's just it's just lovely, nice and cool. Um spring, it's it's toss-up. It's a toss-up. Well, I mean, Passover, you're supposed to eat and get ready to go. I know, that's right. I know, and you eat, you know, you eat so much, and and April can be quite humid here, so it's like, oh God. Uh just eating and then the heat, you know, so much.
SPEAKER_00Well, um, so going back to the proverbs that section, um you've heard how Holly loves to treasure Sukkot. Um, that's just one of the mitzvah, one of the commands. 613. So So how would you say that um you make your heir attentive to wisdom, your heart incline your heart to discernment?
SPEAKER_01This is um something that really speaks to me too, because as a young woman, a young girl, um I was very academic. Um, I didn't care about being pretty or being popular in school. Um, I didn't care if I had friends. What I cared about was knowledge and wisdom. And I and I from a very young age asked God to give me these things because uh knowledge and wisdom can be useful. Being pretty not always very useful, other than maybe finding a husband, all right. So um, which thank god I've got looks, you know. But this is something that I cared more about to have this, and I've learned since that there's a difference between knowledge and wisdom, and wisdom is having knowledge but knowing when to apply it properly. Um, I used to be a know-it-all, just spout off information. I tend to be very um, what does my husband call it? Um I can't remember the word, it starts with an S, but I I have so I'm like a walking encyclopedia, and I can't even help myself, and and I just spout off information all the time. And when I was younger, I was very proud of that. Wisdom isn't proud, it's just being able to be useful with that wisdom, like tea, things like that. I I think knowing the right thing to do. And when you incline your heart to discernment, um that goes with wisdom because um, and I will, as an herbalist, use tea as an example, which God showed me these things at a young age while I've been doing it for 30 years. He instructed me on the things that he wants me to do. And tea is not just about, oh, I know this herb does this and this does this. It's the wisdom of knowing the difference between five herbs that do something, which one is right for the person. And there are times when I make a blend for someone that, oh, I'll just use this one. And and God speaks to me, and that discernment comes over me. Are you sure that's the one you want to use? And I go, I don't know, is it? And and and that, you know what, there is another one that could do this. Let me think again. Discernment asks you to think again, and wisdom tells you to think, discernment tells you to think again and to stop and to assess. Um, I think uh I think of God as a scientist, I think of God as a very logical uh creator, um, as well as artistic. So these concepts really speak to me personally because I'm very logical and reasonable and rational and um have a very kind of scientific mind about how I do things, very mathematical. So it it sounds very dry when you think of it like that, but when you and and in this specifically says makes your ear attentive to wisdom, you have to listen around you to what's going on. You can't have wisdom if you're not paying attention and having awareness of what is going on in the world around you. I see people all the time who they just they're so consumed with their phones or other things that I working at the synagogue, I constantly have to know what's going on around me. Um somebody will say, Well, I didn't see so-and-so this Shabbat, and I say, Oh yeah, they were in the back three three pews back. How did you know that? I was paying attention. Like I take a look around to see what's going on, and um then not necessarily the ear, but knowing that they're there, paying attention to these things. Um, and our heart has that discernment because wisdom can come from up here in our brains, but discernment has to come from our heart because our brain is going to tell us to do very silly things, but the heart has to say, no, let's think about that one more time. Is that is that really what we want to do? Is that the right thing to do? Um, and going back to the mitzvot, 613 commandments. There are a lot of things to unpack there, a lot of things that when you have the knowledge and the wisdom of Torah and the mitzvot, but the discernment reminds you of what those things are when you go to do actions. So you may want to do something that you think is right, or you might want to do something that is wrong because we are flesh, but that discernment pops in with okay, we know these, how does this apply now? And then and then we go from there.
SPEAKER_00Well, and and discernment also sometimes tells you, hey, that's good, but it's not for now.
SPEAKER_01It's not the right time exactly.
SPEAKER_00Um, because there is a time and a season for everything. Just like uh I've known I've learned for me personally that there is a time to say something to someone about something they're doing or not doing. Right. And it it's not always the best time when I want to say it. I want to be like, look, yep, yep, yep. But it's not always the best time, and and God knows. And so I think that's where that discernment comes into play, or for it to come into play where it's like, nope, you just need to close your mouth. Yep.
SPEAKER_01There are there are times when we the Lord wants us to go out into the highways and the byways, and we're gonna see things as believers that we may not necessarily agree with. And I've seen both sides. I've seen the side of people who say, Oh, we're not supposed to judge, don't say anything to them, and then that person isn't made aware of what they're doing. And I've seen uh the you know, people standing outside of a business holding signs, condemning, and I'm like, there's gotta, there's gotta be a better way. And Torah kind of explains this that we're supposed to have a relationship with somebody, we're supposed to be there working with them and talking to them and and and loving them through this, and when the opportunity arises, then we say, Hey, I really because I care so much about you, and you know that I do because you know we've worked this relationship. Um, and you don't necessarily build a relationship with somebody because you're intending to catch them in something at some point, absolutely. Uh especially if they're having a lifestyle uh choice that you don't believe in. You don't say, ah, I'm gonna build a relationship with that person, then I'm gonna pounce on them. Um it has to be organic, it really does. And you may think, okay, at some point I'm gonna be able to tell this person, and I I can't wait to share with them how they could, if they just turn back to the Lord, you may never get that chance. And you have to be okay with that, and that's where wisdom also comes in.
SPEAKER_00Being okay with the idea that you may not be the one to do it, and what it also gives you the option to pray for that person, like you see the thing, and it's time to pull up your bootstraps and roll up your sleeves and let's pray.
SPEAKER_01Or pray for that someone else encourages them, you know. And and it's not very comfortable for most people to um confront someone. I I just don't think anybody sits back on their couch on a Monday afternoon after work and says, you know what, I just can't wait to have a fight with someone about this. I don't think anybody is.
SPEAKER_00Um not that I mean, well, if you're not following Torah, yeah, I can't wait to fight with it.
SPEAKER_01No, I can't really let them. I just can't wait. But um, no, nobody, I don't think anybody's really doing this. So I mean, it just has to be organic. It really does. And and I don't know, I provides that example for us in scripture as well as in our own lives. There's times when, I mean, I thought, I thought I knew what I was doing, I thought everything's going according to plan, and it doesn't. And we have to sit back and go, okay, there's a lesson. There's a lesson in this. Let's let's sit back and talk about it. And that's wisdom. Even allowing things that happen to us to to instead of hardening our hearts and make us jaded people, and I've had a lot of experience with this as a uh a first wife and a stepmother. Um, that I've let those things jade me and hard my heart, and I had to look at it as a lesson. Not necessarily that it was being done to me, but where is the lesson here? Where is something that I needed to say? Oh, okay, there it is. Oh, you're right. Oh, dang. Oh man, I even in all my wisdom, I didn't even see that, but he does. He always sees it, and he knows just the right time. And so I I'm I'm very blessed for that personally.
SPEAKER_00So, um, and then obviously, I mean, you've basically answered this question. You prayed, you asked Adonai, like, hey, I want insight, I want to have discernment, and you saw it after. You um, you know, did your homework, you read the house, yeah, yeah. Uh so it's really important, and then you will know the fear of Adonai and discover the knowledge of God.
SPEAKER_01I like how they they separate it to um the writers and of Proverbs because fear of Adonai, you know, is is to me it's just like fearing your parents. Like, I'm sorry, I was afraid to upset my parents, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Um, it's how we let it change our heart. We could, as children, be very jaded and say, Well, I was afraid of my mom because I was afraid to upset her because I loved her so much, I wanted to make her happy with my actions. Um, unfortunately, I do see that in the world today where kids are uh very traumatized by their parents' discipline of them. But like I'm always very open. I was like, yeah, I was afraid of my mom. I was afraid that I was gonna get caught if I wouldn't do anything right. I was, you know, I wasn't perfect, but I worked on being a good child for my mother. And so, and I feel like fear is a healthy tool. It doesn't have to be um, you know. Yes, it doesn't have to be as negative as we make it sound. Like fear of the Lord. Like, look, Adam and I can do mighty things, just evaporate people. I mean, uh open the earth. Open the earth and swallow them up. Look at Korak. I mean, this is amazing stuff that if you were um example, the Shema. We cover our eyes. Some some people cover their eyes. Um, I I tend to take my glasses off and take both hands to cover because I found that like one hand, I'm like one arm's just swinging and it was weird. But anyway, um, I cover both uh eyes with both hands. They were covering their eyes because the God was so amazing they didn't even want to see it. They were so afraid. But but this is Bene Israel, they're the people of God, you know, and they're still his people, even though they have a fear of him, which I think is healthy. And being like, I don't want to upset my father, I don't want him to be disappointed in me. I want to do the best that I can for him, and and fear can be a good tool to lead us into a better place if we let it, rather than being, you know, using it as a as what was it they call these days trigger word for things, you know.
SPEAKER_00Or thinking that God's up there with a gavel.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that he's up there just going, I can't wait to hit the piano button to smite them. You know, smite, smite, smite. Um it's not doing that. But the the they they definitely separate. You will know the fear of Adonai and and being an addition here, discover the knowledge of God. You know, why didn't they just say fear and knowledge of Adonai? There's a reason they separate these concepts. Um and and I don't even have the best of wisdom to know what why and what, but I but I see it. And so I think that's really cool.
SPEAKER_00Well, let's go ahead and move on to the next verse. Um for Adonai gives wisdom, and out of his mouth comes knowledge and understanding. He stores up sound wisdom for the upright, he is a shield to those who walk in integrity, he guards the paths of justice and protects the way of his kettlesh. Then you will discern what is right and just and fair every good path, for wisdom will enter your heart, and knowledge will be pleasant to your soul. Discretion will watch over you, discernment will guard you. I I'm gonna go ahead and share. I have two thoughts. Uh I just imagine this huge warehouse where you still stirring up winds up. Right. That's what comes to mind whenever. Read this. And then I also think about how many times God has protected me and He's shielded me because I chose to walk in His ways. Because I chose the path that wasn't the most easiest, you know, the not the popular. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah. I I have definitely, like I said, I've lived a very interesting and eclectic life. And while I always believed in God, I wasn't always a believer in the sense that I was walking in my walk correctly. And I just am amazed constantly when I look back on my life, not necessarily to punish myself, but just to reflect. I think reflection is healthy for us to remember where we came from. You know, it it uh why do we do at Passover where we remember when we were slaves in Egypt? Because we need to reflect on where we've been and knowing we don't want to go back there, right? And I just look at how often Adam and I when I didn't even deserve it, and I didn't even know that it really was him doing it, protected me and showed me different things that I needed to know about life. And and I agree. I think even when we don't even know better or can't even help ourselves because we're so lost in the world, he's like rubbing, you know, he's he's rubbing his hands together, and like you said, in the warehouse, he's pulling things off the shelf. You know, he's like it, I uh uh like the people at Walmart that shop for you, you know, he's got the cart and he's just pulling things down, going, okay, she needs a little bit of humility. Oh yeah, let's get two of those. Um, you know, things like that. And he's just you know walking the cart to the end so that he can hear, you need this. No, don't argue with me. You need it. It's like he's got the deodorant, and you're going, what? And he goes, No, you need this. You see. So, yeah, no, this is I know so much to unpack here.
SPEAKER_00And just I think in life, like uh then you will discern what is right, just and fair, every good path. Um, for wisdom will enter your heart and knowledge will be pleasant to your soul. Discretion will watch over you, discernment will guard you. I love discretion watching over me. Absolutely. Um, and discernment guarding me, I I definitely need it.
SPEAKER_01Yes, yes. Um, in in the world today where um discretion is the opposite of what really is going on. That discretion is like um, I think about this term in the sense that like having discretion about uh as we women, especially with outfits, how we're supposed to look. Um, I remember in school sometimes, because there were there were rules and requirements in school of what you could wear and what you couldn't wear. Your shorts had to be fingertip length, uh, you had to have uh couldn't wear spaghetti straps to school, you had to have uh at least three finger lengths, um, you know, like for a for a width of your what do you call this piece?
SPEAKER_00Sleeve.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, like your sleeve and or a card, like a credit card or an uh an ID card's width, depending on the school uh, you know, watching your cleavage, not having your belly button showing, you know, things like that. And we had to have discretion. So when I look in the mirror before I go to school, I have to look at myself and say, and if there was ever a moment that I thought, ooh, I don't know, I hope the wind doesn't blow today because my skirt's too short, then I probably was like, oh, I I don't want it, what if? And then I embarrassed myself. So discretion, I mean, we think about discretion a lot like clothes, um, but it's so much more, right? But but that's a great example because in the world today, I mean, I can't go to the store without seeing like seven pounds of flesh. Um, somebody, mother, or themselves didn't have discretion that day. Um, I always make the joke kind of that I'm like, you know, does your mother know you're out? Like, does your mother know what you're looking like today? Um, if and and if I had a daughter, and and I did this with my stepdaughter uh for the very short time she lived with us, was like, do you see that? If you ever go out looking like that, we have the we had the discussion every time. That's discretion. Just taking that second look and going, I don't know, uh should I go in the you know, uh I don't know if you've ever experienced this before, but being in a place you probably shouldn't have been, that you probably shouldn't have been there. Um I have, um lest it be in the dark, in an alleyway, someplace I shouldn't have probably been, but I ended up there. And discretion also is one of those feelings of like I shouldn't be here. I gotta get out of here. I got this is not a good situation, whether with somebody of the opposite gender that of you, that you're in a situation that you really shouldn't have put yourself in. And uh discretion says, uh, okay, I don't care how long the date is, it's time to go. You know? Um, and that discretion, I don't even think of it as its own separate thing. I think of that as Adonai. Adonai is discretion. He is the voice that says, Girl, what is you doing? Get out! What are you doing? Uh, whether it be your clothes, whether it be where you're at in life, yeah. And discernment comes from discretion. So again, these are not I think I think he gives us the spirit that tells us the Ruach gives us the discernment, but it comes from him. It doesn't even come from within us. But again, I think it's organic that he allows it to has to shape us a little bit as we as we walk through life. Because we don't get, I mean, we have the manual. We have the manual from when we're born, but we don't always have the honor of having um family or parents or somebody who mentored us to tell us that this was a manual. So we have to kind of grow into discernment sometimes when we walk in his ways.
SPEAKER_00Um and even when we're walking in his ways, sometimes, you know, we go off the path and he's like, Hey, you turn right and keep going straight.
SPEAKER_01Yep, he's back in the warehouse going, where is this motor? And it's like she needs it again.
SPEAKER_00But in in here we go, and this is and I know we're kind of jumping around scriptures here, but he guards the path of the just and he protects the way of his Kedishim. And I am so grateful for that. He's like, Yep, that's my daughter down there. That's right, that's right. I see that guy over there, you know, whatever the case is.
SPEAKER_01Yes, and I love the TLB um that it incorporates the Hebraic-ness, the Hebrew in the word, because I think if anything, if anybody's ever curious about this walk that we do and and why, when you start reading it and seeing these terms, it makes you what is what is a kedoshim? Like, what does that mean? And you and you almost can't even help yourself. You've got to go look up what it is, which leads you to going, oh, oh, oh. Um the Kohen Gadol was the high priest. So the Kedoshim are the um kind of the the priest under that, and Yeshua is our Kohen Kadol, he is our high priest, and so we fall under him. So all of us are like this. Now there were actual Kedoshim who ran the temple and did the daily things, and and it it was just as much for them as it is for us today. So it's a lot of fun.
SPEAKER_00That's all for today's conversation. But we're definitely not done yet. Proverbs 2 has so much depth we couldn't fit it all into one episode. So this is just part one. Make sure you come back for part two. And don't just take our word for it. Study the scripture for yourself and make your ear table to wisdom. Thanks for listening to Coffee with Hayley Marie. Until next time.