Kids Matter!

Great Expectations: Beyond The Baby Blues with Danielle Mizrahi, LCSW, PMH-C

• Alisa Minkin

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This is an overview of normal mood changes after birth and  perinatal mood disorders with perinatal mental health therapist Danielle Mizrahi, LCSW, PMH-C
Danielle Mizrahi, LCSW, is a certified perinatal mental health professional.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists/danielle-mizrahi-west-hempstead-ny/228219

https://okclarity.com/directory/danielle-mizrahi/

https://postpartum.net/

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Bio
As a dedicated therapist specializing in maternal mental health, I am passionate about providing compassionate, evidence-based care to help individuals navigate the complex emotional challenges that can arise during fertility treatments, pregnancy, and the postpartum period. My goal is to create a safe, supportive space where you can explore your feelings, build resilience, and find the strength to thrive during these significant life transitions. Together, we can work towards your mental well-being and overall quality of life. As a dedicated therapist specializing in maternal mental health, I am passionate about providing compassionate, evidence-based care to help individuals navigate the complex emotional challenges that can arise during fertility treatments, pregnancy, and the postpartum period. My goal is to create a safe, supportive space where you can explore your feelings, build resilience, and find the strength to thrive during these significant life transitions. Together, we can work towards your mental well-being and overall quality of life.

I specialize in providing support to women throughout all stages of their reproductive lifespan.
Take the first step to help. Call or Email Danielle Mizrahi now - (516) 259-6964
Cover art by Charlotte Feldman
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Please note that while I am a pediatrician, I am not your child's pediatrician. This podcast is for informational purposes only and does not constitute medical advice. For any medical concerns or decisions, please reach out to your child’s health care professional.




Welcome to Kids Matter. I'm Dr. Elisa Minkin. As a pediatrician, mom and grandma, I understand how challenging it can be to help our kids grow into their best selves. We are so much more powerful together. Here I will be sharing the knowledge and wisdom of a wide range of people who understand and care deeply about children. I'm hoping for your input as well because kids really do matter. They are our future.

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

Welcome back. Joining us today is Danielle Rahi, a licensed clinical social worker and certified perinatal mental health professional. Danielle specializes in maternal mental health offering evidence-based care for the complex conditions of fertility, pregnancy, and postpartum. She's dedicated to helping women build

Alisa Minkin

build

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

resilience and thrive throughout the reproductive journey. She can be reached at 5 1 6 2 5 9 6 9 6 4.

Alisa Minkin

6 4,

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

I'll link to her Psychology Today profile in the show notes.

Alisa Minkin

notes.

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

Welcome to the show. Thank you so much. It's so nice to be here.

Alisa Minkin

Thank you so much for doing this with me.

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

So first of all, we're just gonna start with what is prenatal mental health?

Alisa Minkin

health?

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

Okay, well that's a good question. So perinatal mental health or reproductive mental health or, yeah, I guess those are the two like main terms. Basically it's the period, it's, it's the mental health, obviously, of women who are going through that period in their life from the time that they even think about trying to have a baby through that postpartum period. So it includes a lot. It includes trying to conceive it. It can, it includes fertility issues, it includes going through IVF or adoption, anything related to that period of trying to build a family. And then after having a family, and, and I know that postpartum is, I guess considered up to a year but. It, it really extends much more than that, further than that. So when it comes to mental health, all of the issues or all of the, the aspects of what changes a woman goes through, what, what expectations they go into this period with what really life stage that, that they're at. And a lot of times. It's sort of not really given credit. It's not really taken into consideration that there's so much that does happen, and it's not just because there's something wrong. It's because this is just what it is, right? Like when we go through adolescence, right, there's this expectation that, oh, okay, the teenagers, they're going through a lot of hormonal changes. They're going through this period of growth and trying to find their identity, the journey to becoming a mom. Whether it's, I guess, easy or more challenging, it's also a life stage transition. And I think in society in general, we don't really give that enough credit, right? Moms are just expected to be, oh, instantly bonding with their baby, and the baby comes out perfectly and you know, they're. Thriving in motherhood. But the reality is, is there's so much more to it and there's so many nuances and things that happen during that lifespan, that reproductive lifespan that are normal and typical and they happen. It's just not really acknowledged so much. So reproductive mental health or perinatal mental health is a field within the mental health world that addresses all of these, these issues that come up.

Alisa Minkin

Incredibly important.

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

And that goes way beyond the postpartum question that were changed. Mm-hmm.

Alisa Minkin

up.

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

Set a lot.

Alisa Minkin

about, you kept using

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

Expectations

Alisa Minkin

So I

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

talk about emotion

Alisa Minkin

because I

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

thing that social media has a.

Alisa Minkin

a huge role here. Sometimes good, but a lot of times not. What do you think?

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

Absolutely. I, I personally have a mixed mixed feelings about it and just the role of mental health. It's the role of social media when it comes to mental health, because on one hand you're right, did you have these messages that, or these pages that moms or anyone. I guess who's experiencing, you know, whether it's dad's, moms, whatever type of, of couple or a single moms, whatever it is that are experiencing or, or going through this period, there's these norms that are sort of created and a lot of times the social media is very much relatable, but it also sets a standard of how things are supposed to look and how people are supposed to handle certain. Things that happen. So with like depression and anxiety, right? If there's a page dedicated to postpartum depression, there's probably so many quotes and there's so much information on there that resonates. Yet your journey may be very different through postpartum depression than what's being shown on an Instagram page. So where does that leave you feeling? How does it leave the person who's experiencing it?

Alisa Minkin

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

And you know, I'm thinking of a book I read where this woman had two homes. She was

Alisa Minkin

was an

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

an influencer and she had one poem, the perfect

Alisa Minkin

like

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

connected houses, one where it was a complete mess that they actually lived. Mm-hmm.

Alisa Minkin

perfect home where she fi, you know, films

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

Beautiful.

Alisa Minkin

from.

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

You know, I mean, people seem to like watching the perfect, beautiful, you know, airbrushed thing.

Alisa Minkin

But

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

Like you said, it sets up expectations that

Alisa Minkin

are, are not realistic It, it, it just keeps leading to this idea of the perfect parent,

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

Which doesn't exist for sure.

Alisa Minkin

So I wanna go through the different stages of this period that you treat patients in and it would start

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

Even before. Yeah.

Alisa Minkin

get pregnant, right? So, I'd like you to talk a little bit about that stage.

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

Yeah. I, I think the journey to become a parent, and, and I, I'll just say not everyone becomes a parent. Not everyone wants to become a parent, but for those who do wanna become a parent, it starts. Way before they're even maybe in a relationship where they feel like they are going to try and conceive right. How you see motherhood and and parenthood. Really starts as a child. Like I think about, you know, playing with dolls and just what it, you know, what what we're conditioned, again, here we go with social, social society, but, but the way that we see this period starts way before. So when it actually comes time to try and conceive, or for some people. It's a surprise or when, when, when that period of your life starts, how you saw it before will often influence how you feel about it. Even before there is any struggle or there's any of the, just the stages of what it takes to actually become parent in pregnancy and postpartum and all of that. So it really starts way before there is even, I guess, an embryo you could say.

Alisa Minkin

Right, right.

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

There's two different pieces, right? There's the trying to conceive, and there's also people I'm presuming, that come to you who are not sure they wanna be a parent or they have baggage, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. A lot of my clients will come to me saying, I don't know if I wanna be a parent,'cause I don't know if I can do it right. You know? Or that I'll be a good parent that I can, that I can. Can be who this baby needs, or I don't know if I wanna be a parent because I have my own attachment issues and I didn't have a supportive mom, or I didn't have someone who I felt like taught me how to be a parent. And a lot of times it comes down to. Really just how somebody feels about themselves and, and whether they're capable of, of doing this. So we do a lot of exploration of that too, and what it would mean and what does it mean, and, and the reality is, is most people. I think there's this expectation that you have to know everything, and that you have to be perfect, and you have to have the perfect crib and the perfect, you know, formula and all of these expectations of breastfeeding, all of this, right? There is no such thing as perfect parenting. There really is not. It seems to sell, though. I think that it creates anxiety and anxiety sell. Mm-hmm.

Alisa Minkin

it's really hard not to buy into it at all

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

Yeah.

Alisa Minkin

But I, I love that you said that, and I keep saying we have to go back

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

The good enough

Alisa Minkin

parent. I wanna say one thing about that period though, that if you're the

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

That says I wanna go to a therapist, that I could be a better parent. And you're starting that early. I think you were genius. I think it's a great wing. I think it's really smart. Yeah.

Alisa Minkin

But, but if you are already pregnant,

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

Right. And you have a child and we realize that it's never too neat. It's never too late. I think self-exploration and self-growth is a process. It's a journey throughout a lifespan. So what? What it means to go to therapy as a child is different than what it means to go to therapy as a teenager, what it means to go to therapy as a 20 something. Who's trying to figure out? You know how they're going to move forward in their life and become independent, right? Life life is a sta is a series of stages and your identity changes as you grow. So there really is no wrong time. There's, it's never too late to work on yourself.

Alisa Minkin

Absolutely,

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

I wanna move on to what I think they're called perinatal mood disorders to take into account that it can happen. Both during pregnancy and after we're moving beyond the postpartum depression.

Alisa Minkin

right?

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

And to encompass anxiety. Well,

Alisa Minkin

as

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

absolutely. So there has been a huge shift in how, I guess the postpartum mood disorders are seen. It used to just be postpartum depression. Right. And there is a period after giving birth, So after, after a woman gives birth the two to three weeks after giving birth, it's called like, there, there's something called baby blues. And I guess it's sort of what's, you know, known a little bit more like right at where you could see the crying spells and the hormone shifts and there's such a drop in certain hormones and increase in others. So during that period, it's sort of expected that there's going to be some mood disturbance as your body sort of adjusts to having this new you know, no longer being pregnant. It's really after the two to three period, if some of the symptoms continue, then we start to look at some of the perinatal mood disorders. So, and it's not just. Postpartum depression, there's anxiety, there's OCD, there's panic. There's you know, on the more extreme side there's postpartum psychosis. And the reality is, is studies have shown that it's one out of five moms will experience some sort of postpartum mood disorder, and sometimes it develops right after. Giving birth. Sometimes it develops during there, if, if someone struggles with anxiety, depression, or any mental illness before bipolar, whatever it is, the chances of developing a let we call them p meds, post-mortem anxiety, mood anxiety disorder are greater. So it's not a one size fits all science. It's, it's sort of a case by case, but yeah.

Alisa Minkin

It's very individualized. I'm glad you're bringing

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

That somebody could have a preexisting disorder because you can start the first time,

Alisa Minkin

during this time period,

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

or you could have a preexisting disorder. And

Alisa Minkin

I would be a

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

I concerned for somebody just writing off something as the baby who is, if they have a preexisting disorder, that's getting significantly worse even in that media period. Yeah. Yeah. And I think the importance of seeking care or. Doctor offices, both OBGYNs and pediatrician offices. Being aware and, and understanding the nuances of the, that mental health piece, the perinatal mental health piece is huge because those are the people that are gonna be able to see it, right? A mom comes into an office with their, with their baby, you know, once every few weeks to a month, you know, for the first year of life. So. Understanding and, and for pediatricians and OBGYNs to understand just exactly what it is to have a postpartum mood, anxiety. And recognizing the signs that extend past that two to three week period is huge and key in, in terms of detecting it and also treating it.

Alisa Minkin

I have to add a few things.

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

And the pediatrician we screen using the EPDS. Yes.

Alisa Minkin

which really is screening for depression and

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

only, yep. It's only screening for depression. And it's only done at least, I'm just thinking about my own ob, GYN it's done right after at that postpartum visit, like five weeks after. But the reality is, is that things change over time. Studies have shown that like it really should be done like at the one month mark. The three month mark. Right. And it's, and that one in particular, the Edenberg postnatal depression scale is really just for depression.

Alisa Minkin

Right.

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

Anxiety, I think is I, studies have shown it, it, I think it's the prevalence is just as great as postpartum depression.

Alisa Minkin

Or

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

It could be together, right?

Alisa Minkin

say

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

It could be both.

Alisa Minkin

is like peanut butter and

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

Yeah. For sure. For sure. They come together. Yep.

Alisa Minkin

Yeah. And a couple things more about

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

It's green. If we do, it's not always covered by insurance and so sometimes parents decline it and some are concerned about. Stigma or privacy, and either don't answer it or don't answer

Alisa Minkin

answer it

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

anonymously. With and without a screen. I think it's really important to come from pediatrician. We want to hear this Yeah.

Alisa Minkin

at every visit, right? And we are supposed to, we

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

Screen, you know, at multiple visits

Alisa Minkin

if,

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

the parent allows.

Alisa Minkin

it,

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

Right. And pediatricians. I think it's wonderful and, and I think as a pediatrician, I, I, I have, I have total faith that this is something you're aware of, but I think. Not all pediatricians will ask mom how they're doing and, and how things are going. Right. It's just, is the baby peeing, pooping, whatever it is, and, and, right. But that's only one piece of the whole big picture. Right. And it's hard because pediatricians today aren't just so much depression. It's really hard. There's the theory and then there's the reality. So

Alisa Minkin

So I'm gonna encourage every,

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

anybody listening to this, so they're going through this.

Alisa Minkin

tell be that squeaky wheel because

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

can help you get help. Mm-hmm. I, and I always, I like to tell my clients, right, the reason those screenings exist is because it's a real thing. Right? It wouldn't exist if you were the only person in the world that was feeling it. There are, there are ways of detecting it because it is so prevalent and forget about it being prevalent. There's help. You can feel better. Right. It's like, it's not. It shouldn't be that, oh, I have postpartum depression. I'm a horrible mom. It's not that it's, I have this, I have these symptoms that are causing me to feel this way. It's not, I'm a, I'm a depressed person. I am. I am a bad mom. I have symptoms that are making me feel a certain way and I can get help and I can feel better.

Alisa Minkin

Absolutely,

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

need

Alisa Minkin

to talk

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

just a minute about the role of

Alisa Minkin

of medication.

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

medication because

Alisa Minkin

you are a

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

you

Alisa Minkin

you do

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

prescribed, correct? Yes. Something that's been a hot topic lately. Been a a lot of noise about these medications and I would say very strongly they're not gonna give medical advice. I'm a doctor, but I'm not your doctor.

Alisa Minkin

But

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

Speak out a professional nature.

Alisa Minkin

right? And, and get a professional opinion. Don't listen to all the noise.

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

Yeah, and there are reproductive psychiatrists that are trained specifically to manage and navigate the medication world when it comes to reproductive health and weighing the risks and benefits and what medications they're safe and, and, and really their, that's their entire job to be able to, to diagnose and prescribe and, and, and talk about this openly. Right.

Alisa Minkin

Right. I

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

wanna say though, for an equity issue that that's not accessible to a lot of people, even due to finances or

Alisa Minkin

or to availability

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

Hmm. And in general OB GYNs prescribed medication Yes.

Alisa Minkin

for their patients.

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

Do, do that. So we can go back to your BG Yn in the same,

Alisa Minkin

Hey, you

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

I think I might.

Alisa Minkin

need this.

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

Yes. And

Alisa Minkin

the

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

go back during pregnancy, whether you had a

Alisa Minkin

a

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

pre medication, when you're gonna continue new pregnancy again.

Alisa Minkin

Again,

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

Beyond, beyond the scope of this, but it'd be great, you know, some people really need a reproductive psychiatrist. They have very complex needs, but some are, say just on an FFRI and

Alisa Minkin

OBGYNs, that's

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

yeah.

Alisa Minkin

butter,

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

especially during the postpartum period. I think it gets a little more complicated during the pregnancies like whether medication is needed or not, and having someone who specializes in is key.

Alisa Minkin

Right.

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

may be able to handle that too, and it's perfectly fine to start

Alisa Minkin

with them.

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

right? I just wanna point that out here, not giving medical advice.

Alisa Minkin

but

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

We wanna make sure people have access to help and not just go find a reproductive psychiatrist

Alisa Minkin

and they can't, or they can't find one that covers

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

who takes no insurance,

Alisa Minkin

or,

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

you know, et cetera. It's,

Alisa Minkin

it's a problem.

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

yeah, some people have very, very complex issues and it can make a world of difference,

Alisa Minkin

of difference

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

meaning they may literally need that person to know, but.

Alisa Minkin

complex

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

Yeah, absolutely.

Alisa Minkin

true for nursing as well. I've seen it also

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

You know,

Alisa Minkin

a

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

say, well, it was a medication, but I stopped.

Alisa Minkin

because I want a nurse.

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

And again, your pediatrician manager, we can help you with that. Yep. Absolutely. And, and again, weighing like the, the, the risks and the benefits, right? If you're, if, if someone has major depression and they want to breastfeed, but they can't be on their medication, what is, what are the implications for their own mental health and the wellbeing of the baby too? And, and being able to really sort of weigh out what, what's best. And it's not like a one size fits all situation either. Right. And therapy can help up to a

Alisa Minkin

a

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

point and may, that may gain all that's needed. Right. In in in many cases. Yeah. And, and in many cases, a lot of it is just knowing that this is something that will pass and being able to work through it in therapy is, is, is a big part of obviously the healing, but a lot of people. Suffer in silence. A lot of people feel shame and stigma if they're not this ideal, perfect parent. That, again, is, is shown on social media and just expect the expectations. So being able to find a place. To be held and to be able to work through whatever feelings arise. And again, there's a, there's a, there's a range in terms of severity of symptoms, but just having somebody to, to not judge and to be able to sit with you in whatever struggle there is, is, is I think probably more than half the, half the battle. Ha more, more than that. It's, and it's, it's life changing.

Alisa Minkin

And I think we're making great progress on

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

But it still exists and it drives me crazy because I don't understand. Your brain is important in your body too. Yeah,

Alisa Minkin

do we value it less? Why do we treat that as something that we supposed to just power our white knuckle our way through? I don't know.

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

yeah, yeah. Absolutely. You know, I, I say to my, my clients all the time, right, if you have strep throat. You're not just gonna wait until it goes away. You're, you have to do something about it. You have to go to the doctor, you take medication, whatever it is. Wait, why is mental health different than that?

Alisa Minkin

And for strep throat, you need to

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

An antibiotic and some of these conditions or severity of these conditions, you do need to take medication. I'm,

Alisa Minkin

I'm,

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

I'm still back. I'm still back on the medications and it's, when I talk about that for, for just another minute. When do you refer your client for evaluation for medication? So there, like you had mentioned the the Edenberg postnatal scale, there are certain scales that. I guess are like strong indicators, right? Like if technically, like if there's a certain score, right? It, it would be on my radar even before someone walks into the room. And usually I'll have my, my incoming clients fill out some of these scales. There's an anxiety one too. There's, you know, depending on what the situation is. So there, there are indicators, I guess on paper. But there's also a big piece of. How someone presents when they come in. Right? And as they're going through their story, I always like to hear, tell me your reproductive story, right? Like, was the baby, if, if, if it's a postpartum mom. You know, was this a wanted pregnancy? How did the pregnancy go? What were some of the challenges? And as you're going, as I'm going through that intake process, you know, just paying close attention and as a clinician, you're, you're trained to recognize some of the, the crisis, like the high, you know, high risk factors that would really directly correlate with a referral. And sometimes it, it can go either way, right? And often postpartum depression will resolve and, and. I have clients that come in and they say, well, my mom had this. She said, and it went away eventually. But do you have to suffer for that long? Right? Like, do you have to wait until a year, you know, 18 months to feel better or can you start feeling better now? So it's really, there's a continuum there. There's Right.

Alisa Minkin

And

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

Don't try to white knuckle. You are not a failure. If you need therapy, medication for both, you're just not, yeah,

Alisa Minkin

I

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

I dunno how to say it louder than that. I wanna talk for a minute about the scariest,

Alisa Minkin

end,

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

right?

Alisa Minkin

which

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

What everybody thinks about

Alisa Minkin

the postpartum psychosis.

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

and they wanna also have you explain that and choose to

Alisa Minkin

thoughts

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

or not. Yeah,

Alisa Minkin

'cause I wonder whether some people are

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

for sure. I'm so glad that you brought this up.'cause it's a big, it's a big piece. A lot of people will be afraid to come to therapy because they're having thoughts that are scaring them, right? That I, I'm scared I'm going to hurt my baby. I'm scared that I am going to, you know, kill my baby. I'm scared. There's, there's, the list goes on and on. There's actually a book, and I'm staring at it right now. I, I guess I'll hold it up. It's called Good. Literally. It's called Good Moms Have Scary Thoughts. It's By it. Karen Kliman, who's one of the leading postpartum anxiety and mood disorder clinicians. She is, she's written so many manuals. And we can, you can tag this if you want to, and it's.

Alisa Minkin

it in my tank.

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

And it's, it's actually a really, it's almost like a graphic. Novel, I guess. And it, and basically the whole point of the book is to normalize that these, it, it is normal to have scary thoughts and to worry to some extent, right? It's when the worries get excessive, it's, that's one thing. But there's a difference between worrying that something bad is going to happen and believing that you are, that this is something that you need to do. So like there's, there's, a term called ego syntonic versus ego dystonic. So if somebody came into my office and, and told me, and this happened just last week actually, I'm so scared that I could be capable of, of killing my baby. Like they heard a story on the news and like I'm so scared that I. Do that I, that I could, if I could ever possibly do something like that. There's a difference between that and someone coming and saying that I'm having thoughts that I need to hurt my baby. That like that the, that the baby, you know, whatever it is. If a thought is ego dystonic, like the first example. Where the mom is coming in and they're so, they love their child so much that they're afraid that they're going to hurt them, or that these intrusive thoughts are coming in. To me, that's actually the best news possible because here you're scared, you're having a scary thought about the safety of your baby, and you are, you are terrified, right? It's, if the thought is. In line, if your, if your beliefs about the thought are in line with the actual thought, then that's, you're walking into some. Other territory of like postpartum psychosis or there's an actual danger there. So a lot of moms won't come into treatment because they're having these scary thoughts and they're afraid that if they've verbalized them, then the baby's gonna be taken away. The baby's gonna be put in foster care, or they're gonna be deemed as not safe and they're gonna be hospitalized. But the reality is, is a lot of these thoughts are normal to have. I'm glad you pointed out about that.

Alisa Minkin

book, and

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

I definitely have to put it in the show notes. That's Really, really important.

Alisa Minkin

and I'm

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

I'm glad, I'm glad you clarified that. And, and you know, we have to go. I just wanted choose one more thing. Yeah.

Alisa Minkin

it's really important, which is say someone's listening to this and they're like,

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

It's not about me, it's about

Alisa Minkin

my daughter,

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

my friends. I'm worried about them. So I, I'm guessing not everybody

Alisa Minkin

knows to

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

help

Alisa Minkin

or

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

able to receive.

Alisa Minkin

that for whatever reason.

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

Yes. Yeah Friends, your family member that may be suffering from a PMA post, you know, one of these mood disorders and is not either a rare it or not committing to abuse.

Alisa Minkin

You suspect it.

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

Right. So I mean, I, the first thing I would say is recommend that they talk to, like their, if, if it's, if they're not in therapy. So if, if something's going on to talk to their pediatrician or their OB GYN. Again, as time goes on, my goal and my hope is that. Offices will be more trained to be able to detect some of these things, even if, if it's not so obvious to, I guess, the person sitting next to in the, in the lobby. But you know, there are a lot of self, self-help books too, like the one that I just, I just told you about. But you know, I think the key is if in an ideal world, if, if I guess everyone can realize that this is part. Sometimes it's part of the journey, right? It's that things are not perfect from day one. Things will never be perfect, and the the struggle is real. It's there. And even if you're not diagnosed, or if you don't, if you aren't struggling with clinically diagnosable anxiety, depression, OCD, right? Being a mom is hard and. No one has the, the answers, right. You mentioned the good enough Mom and, and Winnicott who, who he is known for the saying, the good enough. Mom, you don't, A baby doesn't even need a good, a perfect parent in order to be successful. And in fact, it's through some of the imperfections that a child learns to be resilient. So it's, it's, I just wish women wouldn't put as much pressure on themselves.

Alisa Minkin

Oh my gosh. So much,

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

So true.

Alisa Minkin

true.

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

And by helping yourself, you're ultimately helping a child. Exactly. So

Alisa Minkin

I think that that's really important. But

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

someone who sees a family member or friend, they could, I'm gonna put things in the show notes about hotlines. Yes. So.

Alisa Minkin

you yourself can reach out to a hotline,

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

There are hotlines You can put them in the, in the in the show notes as well.

Alisa Minkin

Yeah. So I

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

it covered

Alisa Minkin

a

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

a lot of ground in a short amount of time, but we didn't go into anything in depth, so I'm hoping you're gonna come

Alisa Minkin

come

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

for

Alisa Minkin

multiple

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

series so we can have short and sweet pieces of this, more than depth. Okay. Yeah, I am ready. Tell me when.

Alisa Minkin

Amazing. Thank you so, so much for doing this with me.

Danielle Mizrahi LCSW PMH-C

Of course.

Thank you for listening to Kids Matter. Raising Healthy, happy Children Takes a village, and I'm grateful you are part of ours. If today's conversation resonated with you, please share this episode with another parent, grandparent, teacher, or anyone who cares about kids. Together we can build a supportive community our children deserve. I'd love to hear from you. Share your thoughts, questions, or suggestions for future topics at Kids Matter podcast@gmail.com. With no explanation for your voice truly matters. Until next time, keep advocating for the children in your life because kids really do matter. They are our future. I'm Dr. Elisa Minkin and this has been Kids Matter. Please note that while I am a pediatrician, I am not your child's ped. This podcast is for informational purposes only and does not constitute medical. For any medical concerns or decisions. Reach out to your child's healthcare professional.