The Mudcat Report Episode 23: Ordinances

The Mudcat Report Episode 23:  Ordinances 

HOST:  Hunter Dawkins -  Owner/Publisher of the Award-Winning Newspaper - The Gazebo Gazette, SuperTalk Mississippi News contributor, former Congressional Staffer, former Public Relations for the Attorney General's Office

PRODUCER:  Jeff Clark - Award-Winning Journalist, Multimedia/Podcast Host, Director for the Harrison County Senior Services

GUESTS:

• Tim Holleman - Board Attorney, Harrison County Board of Supervisors; Senior Partner, Holleman & Associates
• Donald Frazer - Alderman at Large, City of Long Beach

Transcript

SPEAKER_10 0:00

The greatest fairy tale never told is called the Bolva Vars December. Everyone's favorite ogre hits the stage in the Broadway hit Shrek the Musical. Join the track, Donkey, and Princess Fiona on a high-energy family-friendly adventure. June 11th through July 2nd. Tickets start at $25 with four packs starting at 16th. The IP package is available. Get your tickets at Volverbars.com. Around productions to produce a special range with Visa Theater International MTI for tax and service charges and change that restrictions may apply.

SPEAKER_00 0:29

Join us July 2nd to 5th at Jones Park and Gulfport for the 78th annual Mississippi Deep Sea Fishing Rodeo. A Gulf Coast tradition filled with fishing, food, family fun, and live entertainment. The excitement continues Friday, July 3rd, when Amanda Shaw takes the stage live at 7 p.m. Amanda Shaw will bring an unforgettable night of music to the Mississippi Gulf Coast. Make plans now to celebrate the holiday weekend July 2nd to 5th at Jones Park and Gulfport for the Mississippi Deep Sea Fishing Rodeo. And catch Amanda Shaw live at 7 p.m. on Friday, July 3rd.

SPEAKER_12 1:07

United States Marine Aid knows what it means to show us dogs. Your credit and teamwork inspire us every day. At USMI, we cherish our family. And our family includes communities. And you USMI builds the status boats with pride and coastal toughness. Gulfboard roots, global impact. Sound like your kind of mission? We're accepting applications from experienced craftsmen to build real boats for real people.

SPEAKER_04 1:54

Good afternoon. My name is Hunter Dawkins, and I am the host of the Mudcat Report. This is the 23rd episode. It is a Mississippi Gulf Coast community news podcast. Uh sponsored by the Gazebo Gazette, the Harrison County Independent Newspaper, the Beau Revise Resort and Casino in Biloxi, Nine Toes Brewing Company, in Paschis-Chan, O'Duire Realty Agent, Stephanie Makowitz, Joseph Kelly Attorney at Law, Coast Casual in Paschis-Chan, the Rotary Club of Paschan's Paddle at the Bay Fundraiser, the insurance barn in Gulfport, and a big, big event coming up here, the Mississippi Deep Sea Fishing Rodeo on the July 4th weekend here in Gulfport. And we're always in the U.S. Marine Inc. studio. I'm here with my wonderful producer of the show, Jeff Clark. Jeff Clark is a well-accomplished, award-winning journalist, director of the Harrison County Senior Services, and as well as my good friend. How are you?

SPEAKER_03 3:06

Hunter, I'm well, man. Thank you for doing another episode. This one should, I know you've got some great guests on this one. Should be exciting.

SPEAKER_04 3:15

Yeah, you know, Jeff, our theme for the day is ordinances, both county and city ordinances. Since neither you nor myself is an attorney, nor an elected official in front of a local government, there's a number of questions that I have to ask, or at least both guests, both gentlemen that I highly respect and are of the legal minds of the best of them, not only in the state of Mississippi, but in the nation. From the legal knowledge I have gathered in this deal is that an ordinance is a law passed by a local government to regulate local issues such as zoning, noise, and business permits. Give me your thoughts on that.

SPEAKER_03 3:58

Oh well, yeah, it's uh it it's an act passed by, and you know, I've had the pleasure of working with Tim Holliman for several years, and he's gonna say this a lot better than I can, but it's a you know, it's a legislative act passed by city council or board of supervisors for for public safety reasons. Uh, it does carry the authority of the state. Is it a law? Well, you know, Tim would probably tell you, no, it's not a law, it's an ordinance, but violating the ordinance could result in a misdemeanor, you know, is a misdemeanor. But uh, you know, don't take all my questions, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:35

Don't take all my questions.

SPEAKER_03 4:36

Yeah, I mean I'm I have to be versed in in our stuff. Also want to say, you know, Tim's a diehard old miss fan, so you know, hopefully getting getting ready for the World Series.

SPEAKER_04 4:46

That was going to Omaha.

SPEAKER_03 4:53

You know, there there's ordinances of you know, there's noise ordinances, there's yard ordinances. If you live in a neighborhood that's got an hoa, you have ordinances there. So um, you know, it's those are acts passed by the Board of Supervisors and City Councils to uh with public safety in mind. And like I said, uh Tim can speak to that much more eloquently than I can. So I'm gonna go ahead and dip out and we'll go to our first break, and we'll be right back.

SPEAKER_04 5:20

The Gazebo Gazette is Harrison County's only independent newspaper, publishing news from Gulfport, debate St. Louis, every Friday. Hi, this is Hunter Dawkins, owner of the Gazebo Gazette. If you're looking for local news without the hassle of sorting through story after digital story, log on to thegazeboGazette.com. Add your name to the digital audience of 250,000 plus coastal residents who already know where to find the stories that matter to them.

SPEAKER_06 5:49

Looking for insurance coverage you can count on? Call the Insurance Barn, a professional agency since 1959. The insurance barn writes all-in-one policies and offers coverage for homeowners. Fire, flood, commercial property, auto, boats, motorcycles, plus wind and hail protection. Visit them at 1902 Avenue in Gulfport. Call 22886-31647. Or learn more online at the insurance barn.net. The insurance barn protecting what matters most for generations.

SPEAKER_04 6:33

It is the board attorney for the Harrison County Board of Attorney of Supervisors, I should say. Um, and also Tim is the senior partner in Holliman and Associates. Tim Holliman, how are you, my friend?

SPEAKER_02 6:45

I'm doing fine. How are you doing? Thank you for having me, Hunter. Thank you, I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_04 6:50

Well, let me, you know, of course, as I know, you know, being an attorney, you you gotta kind of get away from these fifth grade questions. But of course, with our audience, you know, I'm trying to make it as easy as possible for them. Let me ask you a question. Can you explain the difference between an ordinance and a resolution, you know, to the listeners, at least right off the bat? They have ordinances and resolutions, they need to kind of make the difference between those two.

SPEAKER_02 7:20

Well, generally uh orders are exactly what they say, they're orders of the board. Pretty much every order a board issues is an it's an order if it's uh an act that you're required to do, in other words, you're requiring somebody else to do, as opposed to a resolution, which is generally does not order somebody to do anything, it is a recognition more than it is an order of the board. Although sometimes those terms get mixed up together. Uh, generally the difference between an order is it's the board or whatever entity is taking action versus a resolution, which is nothing more than declaring something, you know, for instance, a particular day to be a fake uh holiday or something. We don't really do that a lot, but uh that's really the difference between resolutions and orders, but the terms get mixed up off a lot in my experience. We try to separate them, but people don't really make a distinction between them much anymore. Technically, a resolution is something that does not take action. Uh it may recognize something, it may declare something, or but it's it doesn't take action as opposed to an order, which would be an order of the board or the city council taking action. That's basically the difference. Pretty simple.

SPEAKER_04 8:44

Just a quick thing before we get going on to the next resolutions. Now, don't they have to be uh done by roll call votes? I'm not sure if it's a statute or something like that.

SPEAKER_02 8:55

But yeah, but well, all of them, both an order and a resolution, has to have a vote. Um I don't think you have to have a roll call vote for a resolution. I would for an order, you gotta make sure everybody voted or not voted for that.

SPEAKER_05 9:10

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 9:10

The difference is if an order isn't it is an act by the board and it turns out to be unlawful for one one reason or another. Anybody that voted for that order can be held personally liable uh for whatever action was taken. So a supervisor can actually be held personally liable if they vote for an action. It turns out to be an illegal act. So we we're trying to watch that. A resolution would not have the same effect just because of the difference in it.

SPEAKER_04 9:39

Interesting. Interesting. Is there any requirement the county must enact before adopting an ordinance? Like they have to have a public hearing or something like that.

SPEAKER_02 9:49

Generally, we generally you have to generally the procedure it varies by the entity, but generally the board of supervisors has what we call two readings. That means the ordinance is put on the agenda for two separate meetings and it's read to see if anybody objects to it. And then if it's not, then it's adopted by the board. And generally we publish it. I don't think it's required legally to be published, but we do it really requires it only to be spread on the minutes of the board. But generally, if it's an uh an ordinance that's making something a crime, you would we would publish it so you know people can't claim they weren't aware of it.

SPEAKER_04 10:31

Uh do ordinance have to comply with state laws?

SPEAKER_02 10:35

Yes, and and this is one of the particular areas when you define the difference between an ordinance and a law. The law is obviously adopted by the legislature. The county nor the cities have any authority to adopt laws contrary to the the laws adopted by the legislature. Good example is we could not set a speed limit on I-10. The county could not do that because that's set by state law. Highway, uh, some of the you do have some exceptions to this, but generally state highways are controlled by the state law. And then county roads or city roads that are not part of any type of state aid or a U.S. highway system would be controlled by city or county ordinances as to the speed. So that that applies pretty much to everything. That's a good example. But we we can't pass ordinances that conflict with the state law. That would be illegal or um not proper.

SPEAKER_04 11:34

Especially you're saying the state highway like highway 49, you know, you can't set the speed limit or anything like that.

SPEAKER_02 11:41

Well, there there can be exceptions because there are exceptions where city where highways run through cities. So I think that I'd have to look at that to see if Gupport adopted that 45 mile-an-hour speed limit or to the highway department. I would hazard to guess it was a highway department. Now the city can enforce it within its within its municipal limits, enforce the state law and the ordinances.

SPEAKER_04 12:06

This is a little bit of a um, I mean, I'm sure there's a little bit of different answers on this, but when someone breaks an ordinance uh doing whatever, is this a civil or a criminal penalty?

SPEAKER_02 12:19

It can actually be both. I mean, it depends on the ordinance. And the ordinance, if it's a criminal penalty, the ordinance has to provide for that. And if it doesn't provide for it, then it would be a civil remedy, meaning you'd have to enforce it in court. So uh for instance, a zoning or a building code, those violations can be a criminal act. And you can be charged with criminal, but they're mostly enforced civilly by by going to court. Um or you know, but sometimes they do get enforced if it's somebody that's really you know not complying and it's dangerous. We would file a criminal charge against them and they would be charged and sentenced per that ordinance.

SPEAKER_04 12:58

Okay, so that would be like a public safety, you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:03

Generally, you don't have fines for things that aren't some type of public safety. Water and sewer, there are ordinances dealing with water and sewer, and and uh you could be fined for that in addition to a civil remedy. So it could be both depending on the ordinance you're talking about.

SPEAKER_04 13:20

If the county supervisors wanted to change the zoning map, which I know there's been some talk about, I'm not saying that it's going one way or the other, but is this an ordinance or is this just an act by the supervisor?

SPEAKER_02 13:34

It is an ordinance, and it is a particular type of ordinance that has to be dealt with specially because it's a zoning ordinance. So there are all kinds of requirements when you're changing zoning to make sure you give notice to all those that may be adversely affected. And that's a very broad term. You know, how do you determine who's adversely affected? There's actually a local case, not county, but one of the cities had a case where they closed an alley and they only gave notice to the people that were connected to the alley. And then later somebody came along and said, Well, wait a minute, I use that alley to go through to wherever I'm going all the time. And you didn't give me notice. And the appellate court held that they were entitled to notice because they were adversely affected. And it was somebody that would come through on a through street, sure. So they didn't have an interest to the roadway. But that's that's kind of what you're looking at when you talk about violation of an ordinance.

SPEAKER_04 14:29

Okay. Since short-term rentals have become a large issue the past few years through counties and municipalities, is there a state law or is there just a county ordinance that sets a mandate for these?

SPEAKER_02 14:45

I don't think Harrison County has one. I'm pretty sure we don't, but I'd have to go look. But the cities do have one, and that is a city ordinance um that that the city controls. Now, if the state were to pass a law that dealt with that area, that would law would be applied first. But uh, I think those are the local laws, especially I know in Bilox there are ordinances, not state law. So uh probably the most famous ordinance the county has is the sand beach ordinance.

SPEAKER_04 15:16

That's what most people tell me about that one really quick.

SPEAKER_02 15:20

Excuse me?

SPEAKER_04 15:21

Tell me about that one really quick if you don't mind.

SPEAKER_02 15:24

This is an ordinance of the uh back in the 50s, the there was a uh some federal litigation involving the sand beach. And not many people know this, but the history of the sand beach, the sand beach was private property. All of the miles was private property. And owned by still people have rights. The uplands owner has rights to the riparian rights to the sand beach even today. But what happened was the uh hurricane had hit and destroyed the what was then highway 90. It was more like a sleepy gravel drive at that time.

SPEAKER_05 16:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:02

The feds came in and put in a seawall. And everybody allowed them to put the seawall in, all the uplands owner allowed the seawall to be put in. And then later another hurricane hit and they undermined the seawall. So then the the federal government, with conjunction with the state, put in the sand beach. The sand beach is to protect the keep the waves from undermining the seawall. So it was to protect the seawall. Well, that rocked along for a few years until sometime in the 60s, and lo and behold, the uplands owners did not want the black folks going on the beach. So we had a dispute about whether or not the whether it was private property or it was it had it become public because they allowed the federal government to put in a seawall and the and the beach. And so the court held that the sand beach became public because the upland owners who own the property privately had permitted and allowed the seawall and the beach to be put in with public funds. Wow. And then that court ordered the Board of Supervisors to be in control of keeping that sand beach open for public use, and that includes regulating the sand beach. So the sand beach ordinance was adopted to uh regulate what goes on on the sand beach, and it's worked out you know fairly well over the years. Sand beach is a beautiful place, number one, and the county and the citizens spend a lot of money to keep it that way. And number two, it's a fun place for people that you don't see a lot of problems down on the sand beach. We have a few, but not many.

SPEAKER_04 17:49

Well, now down, of course, this would be the last question I ask you, but um down here at least there's still some boat houses. Obviously, not they're not there anymore. Most of them were destroyed. Yeah, and all is there any owning of that property?

SPEAKER_02 18:07

Yeah, yes. Well, it's it's it's it's an ownership of reparian rights. And or and they call repairing or littoral rights. One has to do with rivers, one has to do with oceans, and so reparian rights generally permit the uplands owners to use the water for below the mean high tide for piers, wharves, things of that nature.

SPEAKER_05 18:33

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 18:33

So an uplands owner still has a public a right to privately use uh the shoreline below the mean high tide. We they don't they can't build on the sand beach, but they can go from average high tide to build a pier out. So most of those piers you see nowadays are the remnants from a long time ago, many hurricanes ago. Some of them are new, and you'll if you notice when you ride down there, they start at the edge of the sand. They don't start up at the seawall.

SPEAKER_04 19:03

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_02 19:03

Very few of them. Only ones I've that I know of that start at the seawall are public piers.

SPEAKER_04 19:09

Yeah, yeah. Well, my last and final question for you, this might be the hardest one. Are you you and Lisa going to Omaha this weekend?

SPEAKER_02 19:22

Well, I was just talking to my good friend neighbor Fant Walker, the judge in Gufford. He's going on Wednesday. So I'm gonna wait and see if they go to the finals, and then I may decide to go up there because you know, once all the other teams leave, all the hotels clear out anyway. So that's right. I think it would be fun. I've never been. Uh I'm proud of the rebels for fighting through it and getting there this year.

SPEAKER_04 19:43

Charles Schwab. Charles Schwab is apparently a really nice stadium, and they've got, I think, the uh the capacity for about 23,000. So let me know.

SPEAKER_02 19:54

I had really hoped that I really hope that State had gotten into the College World Series because my son-in-law is a state fan. I want it so bad for all of us to go together and maybe have Ole Miss and State in the finals. Wouldn't that have been fun?

SPEAKER_04 20:08

That would have been fun.

SPEAKER_02 20:09

But I don't wish any ill will on my brother in Mississippi State. I love them too. I don't like them on Egg Mole Day. Don't dislike them. I still like them, have a lot of fun. So I'm not one of those fans that gets mad about losing a football game. Well, let me take that. I get mad, but I don't get mad at somebody.

SPEAKER_04 20:28

You take care, my friend.

SPEAKER_02 20:30

All right, thank you so much, Hunter. Anytime you need something, you let me know.

SPEAKER_04 20:33

Thanks, sir.

SPEAKER_02 20:34

And and but all I'm saying is any citizens that are listening, if they have questions, they're welcome to ask them.

SPEAKER_04 20:40

I ask you to do it by email and not telephone, otherwise, I'll never get off the phone. And you know, I'll let you know when I get asked questions.

SPEAKER_15 20:47

Anytime, always glad to. Thanks, sir. Thank you. Good talking to you.

SPEAKER_00 20:52

Looking for effortless style on the coast? Discover Coast Casual in the Pass, your locally owned men's and boys' boutique. Coast Casual offers a mix of coastal and southern-inspired clothing, accessories, and gifts, perfect for everything from laid back days to dressed-up nights. Known for quality and standout customer service, it's style made easy. Find Coast Casual at 100 West Scenic Drive in the Pass or visit CoastcasualMS.com. Coast Casual, Relax Style starts here.

SPEAKER_11 21:23

Grab your paddle and join the fun at Paddle the Bay, hosted by the Rotary Club of Pass Christian. Mark your calendar for Saturday, June 13th, from 8 a.m. to 1 p.m. at Hederson Point Park, right at the base of the Bay Bridge. Paddle the Bay or explore the bayou while enjoying a day filled with food, music, and community spirit. Celebrate more than 100 years of service and consider donating $100 or more to support a great cause. Plus, compete to win gold, silver, or bronze paddles and prizes by raising the most funds. For more information, go to the Rotary Club of Past Christiane's Facebook page. Don't miss paddle the bay, where fun meets purpose on the water.

SPEAKER_07 22:09

Looking for trusted legal guidance on the Mississippi Gulf Coast? Joseph Kelly, attorney at law, has been serving the coast since 1993, helping families protect what matters most. From estate planning to securing your legacy. Joseph Kelly provides experienced, personalized legal services designed around your unique needs. With decades of knowledge in estate law, you can plan with confidence, knowing your wishes will be honored and your family protected. Call Joseph Kelly, Attorney at Law Today at 228-467-3400, or visit the office at 114-Main Street, Suite 102 in Bay St. Louis. Joseph Kelly, Attorney at Law, here for you, serving the Mississippi Gulf Coast, since 1993.

SPEAKER_01 22:57

Nine Toes Brewing Company is a Gulf Coast destination for craft beer, great food, and interactive entertainment. Enjoy a rotating selection of small batch brews, a menu of comfort food favorites, and state-of-the-art golf simulators featuring world-famous courses. Whether you're meeting friends or just unwinding after work, Nine Toes delivers a laid-back atmosphere with something for everyone. Located at 110 West Scenic Drive in the Pass, Nine Toes is your spot for bold brews, big swings, and better nights. For more information, please go to ninetoesbrewery.com.

SPEAKER_04 23:33

And we welcome one of my good friends and somebody that I've had a great number of conversations with. The alderman at large in Long Beach, Donald Fraser. Donald, how are you, my friend?

SPEAKER_14 23:47

I'm doing good, guys. Thank you for uh inviting me to your meeting here.

SPEAKER_04 23:52

Well, let's let's you know uh talk about pretty much ordinances. That's what we're talking about, and basing it um have there been a few ordinances within the city of Long Beach lately, and not only lately, but in in your time, which I know you've been there for a while, but what concerns do you have hearing from residents across the city about recent ordinances?

SPEAKER_14 24:19

So just you know, keeping up with the times, you know, uh for example, working on uh when when an ordinance is changed, you you need to make sure that everything is covered in there. Um, for example, uh one recently that I have uh on my desk here that I'm working on is uh the city changed uh our ordinance through notifying people with the water department. And it you if you're delinquent or any kind of changes, it's printed. We have the capability now that it's printed uh on the bill itself. Well, in our uh in our ordinance, one part didn't get changed of you'll be uh no uh you'll receive notice of uh disconnection through a door hanger or a knock on the door. Um this this kind of stuff you're you have to make sure that you know when you're making these changes that that everything reflects the same so that there's not a problem in the in the future.

SPEAKER_04 25:35

Yeah, and uh as far as how are the ordinances different from you guys as opposed to the county, you know, because I know there's been some zoning map changes and there's been a few other uh details, but of course y'all are very you know uh specific subdivision level.

SPEAKER_14 25:56

You know, you I know so so the the real big difference is uh after Katrina, this was before my time, but uh the mayor and members of the board uh adopted a hybrid uh uh smart code. We did not uh we did not adopt the full smart code. You know, we pulled items out of uh smart code and and are using that. So that that in itself would gave us openings to not just be black and white, to add things in there, but it also opened the door for missing things. You know, you when you sit down and you're looking at uh you know an ordinance, you can't help but get tunnel vision. You have to get input from the you know outside sources. This is one of the main reasons that um when you do change an ordinance, you know, you have a public hearing and you hear from the public. Um you don't necessarily involve the public at every uh meeting as far as, hey, let's strike line four, let's strike line five. You're bringing a a rough draft there that is almost completed, but then you know, you have to take people's thoughts because they may be looking at something different and you know, and correct three things that you have wrong there, or just it may be something that at the end of the day you both have the same goal, but they're they found an easier way to get there for you.

SPEAKER_04 27:47

Alderman, you know, I know with your experience with the Planning Commission, and something that I've learned during my time in the paper, that you know, there's much more, and I know you probably know this better, but under former mayor Skelly, there was much more of a discussion in the Planning Commission versus what's going on like now. People show up to board meetings and they want to hear things they want to complain. I'm not saying they only want to complain, they want to have their voices heard. But that being said, apparently, you know, under former mayor Skelly, that was a lot more prevalent in the Planning Commission, and you uh tend to know about that more than I do. Go ahead and give me that.

SPEAKER_14 28:34

So I I just felt like there was more participation from citizens at the time at the Planning Commission meeting. Um during the previous administrations, there wasn't public comments that was removed. And and so we've changed it where people don't really see the process of going through the Planning Commission. And they're the ones that really work on a lot of these items because they do have um we we do have the benefit of Mr. Bill Hessel being involved as a city planner that we uh use, and he his experience is so vast. Exactly. It is, I mean, it's off the charts, you know, what this man knows, and I've learned a lot from him. Um by no means do I know everything, but I do have ideas and directions, and there's times where you know we we want to get to the ending, and and you know, I feel like, hey, this needs to be done this way. Well, at the end of the day, I I could be wrong, I could be right, but you have to have that group effort of putting these items together. So it's not just one person's thoughts through A through Z, you know, but there's there's certain guidelines that you have to use, um, along with everything. Uh, you know, when when doing this, it can't just be for the east side of town or the west side of town. It it's got to take in the community as a whole.

SPEAKER_04 30:17

Let me ask you this, because you know, from my experience in the paper, at least, you know, providing uh legal notices for the the planning commission for variant, there's a lot of variants offered from the ordinance of uh of the building permits and things as such. Um is there, but it doesn't really seem it seems like the variance comes and goes. Is that basically determined on the property itself, or is that a a standard, you know, that was set that you try to to adhere to? I mean, what what what's the guideline with that?

SPEAKER_14 30:58

Sure. Uh the simple answer is it's a case-by-case scenario. Yeah. Okay. Um, let's go to the the sidewalk ordinance. Very good. It says, you know, our sidewalk ordinance says you have to have a sidewalk whenever you're building a new structure. Well, if you look at some of these older neighborhoods that are at 99% uh uh completed and been there since the 70s and it was a dead end road and had no uh sidewalk, yeah. You know, and and this is not me or whatever, but the question is, does it make sense to require somebody to have a sidewalk there?

SPEAKER_04 31:47

You know, would we like sidewalks throughout the town to uh to uh be more conducive to walking and and and and that kind of uh town 100, especially if that provides a problem with the public safety from the fire department or anything like that, correct?

SPEAKER_14 32:08

But you know, does it make sense in that situation that I told you? Now, if you have an empty street that hasn't been rebuilt since Katrina, well, yeah, if you're the first house there, I I believe you should have sidewalks, and that's just one situation there, you know, and so you can go down the line and you could take every ordinance uh and you can say, but what if this or what if that? And that's the real reasoning behind a lot of this. Um, you know, there's when a developer comes in, that's one of the biggest things that they have to have that on their uh on their plans.

SPEAKER_04 32:52

Is the city of Long Beach ever been sued over an ordinance that you guys have adopted?

SPEAKER_14 32:59

Sued over an ordinance, and I'm trying to think back. I don't know the answer to that. I don't know in my tenure, no. Okay, you know, I mean, uh have we been threatened with legal action? Possibly. I I just don't know the cases offhand.

SPEAKER_04 33:17

Sure, I understand. What uh one question that's boggled me for some time and I've been asked quite a bunch, as I know that you have too, is for adopting ordinance for the for golf carts in the city. Um talk to me about, and this isn't just one episode of golf cars, sure, golf cart acceptance. Talk to me about you know what rationale the board had, or you know, the the current mayor at the time was in developing that ordinance for that.

SPEAKER_14 33:50

And that's a that's a that's a great one where the city doesn't have the right to just go, okay, we're gonna have a golf cart ordinance, and you can drive these vehicles on any street within our town. Um, first and foremost, we had to get permission from the state through a public private okay, okay. To be, you know, until the law was changed here recently, it was it was designated for uh golf uh golf course communities. Um easy example is Diamond Head, okay. Um your golf course is throughout the city. Um, Past Christian, uh, was it uh Timber Ridge.

SPEAKER_04 34:37

Timber Ridge has the covenant where you they don't correct.

SPEAKER_14 34:40

So so that kind of community, it fits. So then when you take a Long Beach and you go, Okay, we want to do this. Well, we have first and foremost, we have to involve our police department. That's number one safety of everybody on the streets, okay. Now you're talking about vehicles of driving on public roads. Well, that requires a driver's license, okay. So now we're we're getting into it, and I'm opening up these things.

SPEAKER_04 35:14

You're getting a little enforcement problem right there, too, as well.

SPEAKER_14 35:17

So correct. So so it went back and forth. This was actually my first term that we worked on it, and we worked on it almost a year. Wow. Um, you know, the one of the biggest arguments was okay, they have to come to the police station to have it inspected. Well, you can't drive it there because it's not legal, you know. So you now fill out the paperwork, it's a $50 application, and the the police department, you make an appointment and they come to you. Okay. So the all the people were like, well, that's kind of expensive. Well, it's paying for the time of that police officer to come to you. Um, it's paying for the paperwork. And so the city's not making money off of this. So that's one item. Then we talked about uh golf carts are considered low speed vehicles. In the in in the definition of a low speed vehicle, it I believe it says 25 miles an hour.

SPEAKER_04 36:22

Yeah, 25 miles an hour by the state legislature.

SPEAKER_14 36:25

So then now you have to say, okay, we need to when we're approving it, the road has to be 25 miles an hour or less. Okay. So it it now now we're talking about you've opened it up, but you now are you gonna change the speed limit on and offhand? I'm sorry, I don't know. You're gonna change the speed limit on Pineville Road, which I think is 30, 35 miles an hour. But but you know, in turn, these people want to be included, you know, the the citizens want to be included. Okay, we have to look at this big picture. So um we had to get state approval so that the people that are uh uh permitted with their golf cart, we had to get state permission to cross over Highway 90. Highway 90 is a state road, and we got the permission, and you had to give exacts so it was at Jeff Davis Avenue. It was a direct uh crossing at Jeff Davis Avenue. Simpson Pier, right? Correct. So when that area went under construction, we had an outcry of people going, well, why can't you just change it temporarily to Cleveland Avenue? Well, we couldn't get that permission, yeah. So so it's not just us, the aldermen, you know, being dumb and not making sensible quits out of our purview to make that call, you know, and people don't understand this. Um, the other uh we did make some concessions when we opened it north of the tracks. If you are going to cross the tracks, it has to be a direct uh shot. So you can't you can't ride down Railroad Street for a quarter of a mile to get to a crossing and then go over. It's the the letter of the ordinance says you have to cross directly.

SPEAKER_04 38:35

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_14 38:37

So these are like you know, you see what goes into it just in this small conversation.

SPEAKER_04 38:42

Little bits and pieces, yeah. Although this is the final question, but this is gonna kind of a segue off that. Um, you know, since most cities in the county are, you know, use their pavement, or the since most of the cities use the county for their pavement of the streets, is there a city ordinance for the streets like Jeff Davis? Uh I think you know what I'm talking about uh with the recent like burnout style thing that went down. Correct.

SPEAKER_14 39:14

So it's bad timing. I definitely follow your question. Uh as far as the repaving, you can go back to the last administration. Mayor Bass at the time was a big proponent and was pushing to have Jeff Davis resurfaced. So if you think about it, up until recently, when we completed all these railroad crossings, that that you're able to cross these large uh uh trucks, 18-wheelers, commercial vehicles over the only one that we had was Jeff Davis Avenue. It was it was resurfaced in 2009, okay, and that was our main thoroughfare for for trucks. Any kind of major truck coming in and out of the city was going down Jeff Davis Avenue, and and so when you have that kind of wear and tear, it it goes through its lifespan much quicker. So that's where we're at on it. On top of, hey, right now maybe a good time with us finishing up the gateway project, and you're you're talking about redoing your front door, don't just do it halfway, do the entire thing. Um it was a misfortunate issue, uh hindsight being 2020, looking back. Should it have been on Jeff Davis? No. Um but it we're not we're not here to rehash that. You know, it's in the past. We learn, um, you know, we learn from our experiences, and hopefully we don't make mistakes like that going into the future.

SPEAKER_04 41:00

Well, we thank you, Don Donald. And uh, you know, anything uh you can leave the audience away to contact you, get in touch with you if there's any other questions.

SPEAKER_14 41:08

Sure. And Hunter, uh, I can't tell you this. You and Jeff do a great job with this podcast, and and I I look forward to it every week just to hear, you know, who do you who you have on, what you're talking about. But I can always be reached at at large at the city uh city of LongbeachMS.org. And my cell phone is uh number is listed on the site. It's area code 228-343-2082. I answer the calls, uh, I return the messages. Uh it's people call and apologize. I'm sorry to bother you. Listen, if I answer the phone, that means I wasn't busy.

SPEAKER_04 41:49

So well, you take care of yourself, and we look forward to seeing you again.

SPEAKER_14 41:53

Okay, thank you. Have a great evening. Bye-bye.

SPEAKER_08 41:56

The following is a paid advertisement by O'Dwyer Realty Agent Stephanie Mankowitz. Call Stephanie today at 228-563-0471 for all your Realty needs.

SPEAKER_04 42:08

And here we are talking about Realty again with our O'Doire Realtor Agent sponsor, Stephanie Mankowitz. Let's talk about the tips this week from Stephanie about what realtors should be doing for you.

SPEAKER_09 42:24

Thank you, Hunter. As always, it's a pleasure to review realtor topics and uh hopefully it helps people, right? So, what should we do should we be doing for you, the buyer or the seller? First thing I would say is, and it's in the actual disclosure everybody signs when they work with an agent, is ensure all parties are represented fairly and honestly. It's called fair and honest dealings. And if I'm helping you or anyone out before I can even show you a house, you know, you sign that disclosure. And it's not even a contract, it protects you as a person. And I'm supposed to explain that forum to you and say, hey, before we do anything real estate, I am licensed, I am liable, I am here to help you, give you fair and honest dealings, get the most I can for your house, confidentiality. I'm not gonna, if you're a seller, I'm not gonna tell people your bottom line. That's a secret. So, um, so we'll start with that. The first thing is that we are fair. And sometimes realtors get a bad rap, sometimes there's realtors that have caused that. But uh I know I'm one of the realtors that considers myself pretty by the book and just trying to solve the problem. I just want to be a part of the solution, right? So if you're selling a puppy or Avon, whatever it is, there's liabilities when you're selling a house times three, times ten. Okay. All right. Well, I would say uh another thing we do we we make sure that uh the people who Maybe they were they've never sold a home before or they've never bought a home before. We make sure that we weed through the shaky buyers or the sellers, buyers that maybe aren't a good idea to deal with, we can see problems coming before they start when a realtor's been doing this 10 years. And if it is a buyer, we're also looking for sellers that might be a problem. You know, if we're putting in a really healthy offer and it's like full price or near full price, and then we hear there's a multiple offer situation, it doesn't mean you panic. You know, sometimes you leave your offer right where it is, even though there's other offers. So we're making, we're weeding through the shakiness and the things that come up that seem unpredictable. And one of the other unpredictable things, like for sellers, is you know, they get an offer and it's got 10 contingencies on it, and the price looks great, and they say they're cash, but there's all these contingencies. So um you know, you're not you're not really aware how much we help you until you actually deal with a good realtor. That's one thing I would say. And we want to help them determine the value that's correct if they're selling.

SPEAKER_04 45:15

What are some of the things that determine the value?

SPEAKER_09 45:19

Oh okay, that's a good one. Let's start with location. You know the old saying, location, location, location. All right. Uh let's start with what are things selling for around you? If you're in a nice neighborhood and and you think your house is a castle, we all kind of feel like that when we love our home. Doesn't mean it's worth three times what the market says. Uh so people will hear realtors say, Well, the market says your house is worth this. And some sellers don't want to accept that. No, no, it's it's gotta be worth more. I've got a double granite countertop, I've got a fountain that shoots out gold in the backyard, and I've got three kittens with it. So I think I should get a hundred thousand more. And we have to rein people in and say, I love your kittens, I love your granite. And the last year in your neighborhood, people have paid this amount. And though, and that's where we start thinking like an appraiser. So we're like, okay, wait, we can go out two miles and look at the last sales in the last year within two miles of this property, and we can see what people have been paying. And we also look at the square footage, and that's really important, Hunter, because if your house is two thousand square feet and you saw one sell for a million and it had three thousand square feet, and you're like, Well, mine's worth that too. You're a thousand square feet smaller, so I can't even count that house as a comparable sale, right? When we determine the value, it is the critical, probably the most critical thing we do as your listing agent, because that price is the first thing they see, just like the pictures. And if we priced you so high that you seem ridiculous, they're not coming. And then guess who you don't like? Me, the realtor. You don't like me anymore. So I'm kind of an upfront realtor. I think a lot of us are after we've been in a while. And we say, look, in all honesty, right now, this is what the market says your house is worth. Other things we're gonna help you with is um determining what is the inside of the house worth. Um, appraisals are gonna change next year uh across the country, and there will be different data inputs into determining what your house is worth. So we're gonna be on top of that. Um, and so if you're trying to sell on your own, you know, we can be really helpful and deal with all these unexpected things that happen when you try to uh sell on your own. Um and you know, we've talked about sellers a lot, so okay, I'm just gonna put this out there. If you're thinking of selling on your own, the some of the things we're doing for you, the seller, to make it easier is photos, professional photos. We pay for those. A lot of our photographers have drones. We're taking the calls because it's our number on the sign. So if it's a looky loo, it's not an ideal buyer. We've got our radar out there, so we're taking that hassle, you know, out of it.

SPEAKER_04 48:33

If you are thinking about selling on your own, maybe ask Steph. If you would like to talk to Stephanie to help determine your next steps, call today at 228-563-0471. Or call her at the office and ask for Steph at 228-452-4242. Steph has the latest information to help you get through the process with reasonable expectations. Again, that's 228-563-0471 to speak directly with Stephanie. We gratefully appreciate you listening to this podcast, and we thank you again, Jeff. It was a really good episode.

SPEAKER_03 49:19

Yeah, man, absolutely. Um, learned a lot. You know, I I I I love Tim Holliman. He's he's a great man. Um, so smart, so so is Mr. Fraser. It's just great to have them on here. Um, you know, ordinances, you know, we we we have to uh have to live with them and have to live by them. So, you know.

SPEAKER_04 49:42

And you know, and Tim really said a lot of big things that I didn't really know about, especially with the sand beach back in the 50s.

SPEAKER_03 49:50

Uh that was really uh that that was I had no idea, you know. That that was uh a lot.

SPEAKER_04 49:56

So that's of course, that's great. While uh the reason we have this show, and so uh, you know, definitely we want to get out with that. We want to thank our sponsors, including the Beau Rivage Resort and Casino, Nine Toes Brewery in Pasker's Chan, O'Dwyer Realty Agent, Stephanie Mankitz, and Joseph Kelly, attorney at law coast casual in Pasker's Jan, the Pasker's Jan Rotary Clubs, Paddle of the Bay Fundraiser, which is coming up this weekend, and the insurance barn in Gulfport. And then the big event, obviously, coming up the July 4th weekend, the Mississippi Deep Sea Fishing Rodeo. I'm just trying to put out there and promote it quite a bunch. But, you know, that's that's they have Amanda Shaw, who's fantastic.

SPEAKER_03 50:47

You know, she's playing on Friday, July 3rd uh at 7 p.m. So, you know, it's it's always a great weekend, man. Absolutely, absolutely just look for the Ferris Wheel and Jones Park, and you're there.

SPEAKER_04 50:59

That's right. You're right. And then our final sponsor, and as always, in the studio of the U.S. Marine Inc., make sure you follow us on the gazeboazette.com where the podcast will be posted sometime this week, and as well as on facebook.com backslash the real gazebo gazette. And Jeff, we have something new. Let us know what we got.

SPEAKER_03 51:22

Yeah, man. So we have if you'll go to YouTube and search Gazebo Gazette Productions, three separate words, you come up on uh on our new video page. We're we're taking the taking the podcast to uh to video. So uh we have the HD Experience, which is Hunter's sports podcast, is up, and the Mud Cat Report will be up as well soon.

SPEAKER_04 51:46

Hopefully, hopefully in the near future, Clark Cast will be up there as well.

SPEAKER_03 51:50

That's it. That's the goal. All under the Gazebo Gazette Productions.

SPEAKER_04 51:54

So and on X, you can find us as Gazebo Gazette as the handle. The Mudcat Report is available, as Jeff lets everybody know, on all every podcast you can find, including Apple, Spotify, iHeartRadio, and Amazon music under the Mud Cat Report tag. Signing out, this is Hunter Dawkins, the host of the Mud Cat Report. And now, you know the rest of the local story. Good night.