Episode 12: Interview with Melanie Schon

Transcript

Tara.edwards 0:00

Hello, my name is Tara, and welcome to Sister-in-Law, the Paralegal Journey, a podcast about the careers behind the case files. Whether you work in law, work alongside the legal profession, are thinking about a career in this space, or simply want an honest look at the paralegal journey, you're in the right place. Welcome back to Sister-in-Law, the Paralegal Journey. In this episode, we're going to sit down with Melanie Schon, a licensed paralegal and partner at her law firm. She's someone who has built her career with intention, growing the legal profession, and stepping into a leadership role along the way. From developing her skills, building her reputation, and ultimately becoming a partner, Melanie's journey offers a powerful perspective on what's possible in this field. As you listen to today's episode, I invite you to ask yourself, what skills, experiences, and networks are you building right now that might open doors for you later in your career? Hello, Melanie. Thank you so much for being here and saying yes to this conversation. I'm looking forward to diving into your journey. Please introduce yourself to the listeners.

Melanie Schon 1:05

Hi there everyone. This is Melanie Schon. I'm a partner in paralegal here in Ontario, and I'm very excited to be speaking with Tara today.

Tara.edwards 1:12

Thank you so much, Melanie. I'm gonna start at the beginning. How did you first get started in the paralegal field and what inspired you to become a paralegal?

Melanie Schon 1:20

I wanted to become a lawyer, but it just seemed to daunting, to be honest. The paralegal program was its first year of it being offered to students and I thought it was a good, enough to what I wanted to do, but much more cost effective. I've always had this interest in helping people and being specialized in something. So, this seemed like the best fit for me, to enter into this paralegal world versus the, lawyer world that I looked at for a while.

Tara.edwards 1:48

What did your early years in the legal field look like and what were some of the biggest challenges you faced starting out?

Melanie Schon 1:54

Starting out, the profession was just being regulated. I think it was regulated, if I'm not mistaken, in 2010, maybe around that time. I graduated in 20 11 and at that time firms didn't know what paralegals did, what they were able to do or not to do. So when I first started out here in Ontario, I worked at this firm that did primarily criminal and family law, and I did just a lot of paper pushing. I started out as an assistant to a paralegal doing motor vehicle accident claims. Then from there, the firm hired me on as a paralegal to continue doing, MBA claims. I was assisting, I did my own accounting and billing and my own assistant work. So I kind of did a little bit of everything before settling into strictly, litigation work. I moved into employment law maybe around 2015 and loved it. I just found my niche and ran with it, and I've been doing that ever since. I started, the ground floor of a law firm and then just built my way up. It really was an invaluable experience. Whenever I have paralegal students, I always tell them, if you don't have the experience, go into a firm as a law clerk or as a legal assistant or some sort of entry level position just to get your feet wet a little bit and understand how you're dealing with people, what those needs are. Those sort of basic tools that you don't learn in school, that do become really valuable down the road.

Tara.edwards 3:18

I agree with you. It is really important to learn the ins and outs, of a firm. Some people can go off and they hit the ground running. Some people are amazing at that. Some people just need a little bit more time and those who need a little bit more time should know that it's okay to start off a legal assistant or law clerk position because every skill that you build, it is a tool for your toolbox.

Melanie Schon 3:42

That's exactly the way I would put it. I'm so grateful that I have all those, experiences because I think it's really helped shape my practice and, the way that I speak to people now and how I sort of understand their issues. I always tell people when you're fresh out of school, the theory, all the law, that's the easy part, to be honest. It's how to manage people and expectations and, set, deadlines, for yourself and for others. You learn that through experience. You don't necessarily learn that through a book.

Tara.edwards 4:09

Can you walk us through your career progression from your first role to becoming a partner at your firm?

Melanie Schon 4:15

I've been very lucky enough that I've been at the same for my entire career. I started off assisting one of the founding partners and, carrying my own caseload. Dispersed throughout that was doing intake, some billing where it needed to be done. I did my own clerk work, so putting together document briefs, my own claims, really all the nitty gritty stuff that you do. The firm expanded and grew enough that they filled all those roles, so I could just focus primarily on my own practice. In 2021, I was given the honor of joining the partnership at the firm. As far as I understand, I believe I'm the only paralegal partner at a national firm in Canada and it's a huge honor. I don't take it lightly. I know it's a, big, deal in terms of the responsibility that it comes with because it really pushes the profession to the direction that all of us are looking forward to going in, which is to have a seat at the table. That's always what I told my partners I wanted a voice in the room. I wanted to say in terms of how things were conducted. They gave me that, opportunity and I'm forever grateful for it. I've been very lucky to be with the same firm my whole career. So that's what, led me here today.

Tara.edwards 5:20

It sounds like, you've had an amazing opportunity around career growth. I always think that mentorship plays a part in our careers and it sounds like you were able to really, hold fast to that and part of them recognizing the work that you do was inviting you into the partnership. I also agree, I think you are the only, at least in my own research, the only paralegal partner that I saw at a national firm as well. So, congratulations to you because I do think that it speaks volumes.

Melanie Schon 5:52

Yeah, absolutely. You're right that the firm has given me a lot of opportunity and, of course I'm not gonna downplay my own contributions to that, but they've been very open-minded about the profession. We have five or six other paralegals and they all carry their own practice. They all are amazing paralegals and I look forward to bringing more in the fold in the future because it's such a great profession and they all do phenomenal work. The firm has never made me feel less than just because I wasn't a lawyer and I think that that has transcended through the firm. At some firms it's very much a hierarchy and there's separation between each profession, and I've been very lucky that the firm I'm at doesn't make any of us feel that way.

Tara.edwards 6:32

That's amazing. What do you think set you apart or helped position you for the opportunity and what does your role as a paralegal partner look like?

Melanie Schon 6:41

As much as working hard is super important, there's a lot to say about luck and opportunity and just taking something that is in front of you and making the best of it. Like I said, I started off as an assistant to another paralegal and was offered the opportunity to join this firm on a full-time basis. It was scary. I was 22 at the time and I felt like I had no idea what I was doing. I just kept saying yes to things even if it was time consuming or it was hard, or I wasn't sure, you put in the work to figure out how you're gonna do this thing. Taking those opportunities, being patient with, where the firm is at and where your colleagues are at in terms of your own growth. Obviously advocating for yourself, but balancing that with the needs of those around you. I think just growing in any profession is just using those opportunities as they come. Now in this position, I manage a team of paralegals. We have group discussions and mentor them. I'm always available whenever they need me. I'll attend anything, I'll review anything that they need just to make sure that they're confident in what they're doing. I sit in on partner meetings, with respect to the things that are going on within the firm and having that voice in terms of the direction certain things should go. But I like the mentorship aspect of it having that opportunity to sort of be this go-to person for other people. It's been a really wonderful experience.

Tara.edwards 8:02

That brings us to our next question. Did mentorship play a role in your journey and if so, is that a relationship that you maintain today?

Melanie Schon 8:09

Absolutely. I've had a number of mentors within my firm over the years, but the first mentor I had was one of the founding partners. He took me in not knowing really what the profession was fully about, but just very excited about what the profession could be. He took me to everything. I went to mediations, discoveries, examinations, you name it. Any process in litigation steps, he let me be a part of everything and it was invaluable experience. He's a wonderful mentor. I don't need him as much now just because I do employment law and he still does more personal injury side, but, he was a wonderful mentor and really championing me through the first, several years of my career. People don't realize what a great experience it is just to be able to sit on these events or things that we take for granted because we do them all the time. Mentorship is huge. It's so important to have a North star when you are not super sure about things, especially starting out, and I think even more so post COVID, where we shifted to more remote work. Having that person or people that you can go to with a problem and you know you're gonna get a meaningful answer, it's critical. This is not a profession you can do alone. It's not something you'd be successful in doing alone and so building those relationships are really important. Not only at the beginning, but just all throughout your career.

Tara.edwards 9:24

You said it so amazingly. This profession you definitely cannot build on your own and you're constantly going to be mentoring or being mentored. I feel like it's just impossible for your career to grow without it. Now working with my boss who has taken me to different hearings or things like that, it is such an invaluable experience because as I think forward to one day when paralegals are licensed in Alberta and that it's not just a dream, I will already have these things that my boss has already opened me up to and allowing the critical thinking part.

Melanie Schon 10:05

Exactly. Every firm, every person in the profession should want to be open to mentorship and being a mentor. It's just so important to see how these things unfold and when you're doing it on the fly, it can be intimidating. But having watched it, having some experience about what to expect prepares you a bit better so you can be more focused on what are the needs of my client? What is the goal here? What am I trying to accomplish? It helps you focus on the bigger picture.

Tara.edwards 10:30

Do you think paralegals are being fully utilized in law firms today? So, your firm does it really well but within your network, have you noticed or have heard if you think paralegals are fully being utilized in law firms today.

Melanie Schon 10:45

I think they're being utilized so much more and in better roles than they were even five years ago. There are still some firms that use paralegals more like an assistant or research. But in my world of employment law, so many more law firms, have both lawyers and paralegals or just paralegal, owned and operated, firms do more of this work and actually are part of the litigation process. It's wonderful to see. On LinkedIn, I see litigation paralegals for banks, for, cybersecurity companies, you name it and they're all over now. It's great. I think that there's a lot more education of what we're able to do and what we bring to the table and how cost effective we are. I think it still has a long way to go, but I think that it's made huge leaps and bounds compared to when I started. Especially in the last five years, I've seen a big influx of, paralegals being used which I think such a positive sign for, not only the profession but for the general public.

Tara.edwards 11:40

I also think it's really good for the other provinces to look at Ontario and what works, what doesn't it, what's tweaking as you guys evolve.

Melanie Schon 11:48

There's no perfect system but the same can be said even with lawyers. Every province regulates lawyers. There's still some that are not that great or they get into trouble. You can't let a couple bad apples, spoil the bunch. I think regulation is so important for the public. It helps hold everyone accountable if there's issues or things that need to be looked at. I hope that Ontario is a good case study for the other provinces that this does work and it works really well and it's very successful.

Tara.edwards 12:15

I think that sometimes people fear change and when you don't understand that change can be something good, even though it may disrupt a system, it might be something that, can benefit the general public because ultimately we're talking about access to justice and what that looks like. I think the older you get people fear change and not necessarily, 'cause they may not want it, but they can't figure out what that looks like. People will be like that's Ontario, but if we look at what they're doing and we look at the structure and we put the same, limitations with, the scope of practice what would that look like in the Alberta market? That fear of what if we get bad apples. Well, you get bad apples in whatever industry you work in. It doesn't really matter what the industry is. What is good is if the industry is regulated, you have a regulatory body that can sanction that person.

Melanie Schon 13:11

You made a good point about the fear of change. I think that was a big, and still is a concern here. What I always found interesting was the people that are fearing the change are not the same people that are taking on files that a paralegal would take because they think it's not worth their time. So you're essentially preventing people from getting the assistance they need because you want to hoard everything, but you're not taking it on anyway. So, it can be seen as kind of against the profession itself. But is a definitely a really good point you made. There was a lot of unrest and even when the small claims court jurisdiction started to go up from 10 to 25 to now 50, there was a lot of concern about that. But so far everything's been fine. Disruption in any industry is not always a bad thing. Think of the iPhone, that was a huge disruptor in this cell phone space and look how great that's been. It's maybe not the best, metaphor, but I know the change can be scary, but if you look at the overall picture, I think it's a good path forward. Create the scopes, create the limitations, and then work off of that and build off of that if it's necessary.

Tara.edwards 14:13

What do you see as the future of the paralegal profession in Ontario, and what do you think the future landscape will look like across Canada?

Melanie Schon 14:22

I think the landscape here looks good. Like I said, I'm seeing so many wonderful open positions for different types of paralegal work and notably, it's important to say they're good paying jobs. I think there's so many wonderful, smart, competent paralegals out here in Ontario. Across Canada, I know that there are a lot of really good ones out there. I think that the only hindrance is going to be regulation, but I think that once Saskatchewan, Alberta, BC, whoever it is, start the regulation process, I think you'll see the other ones very quickly fall in line because maybe they just are a little bit skittish about being the first one. I think it's going to work wonders for the public and the people who need those services who can't necessarily afford a lawyer.

Tara.edwards 15:03

For someone just starting out, what advice would you give them and what skills or habits should they focus on early in their career?

Melanie Schon 15:10

I tell this to a lot of people and they sort of laugh at me at first, but I've always lived by just fake until you make it. Having confidence in something is half the battle. You come off nervous or unsure or anything like that, you will get eaten live. So I've always been a fake until you make it kind of person. Starting off here I was in my very early twenties, I was a woman. I had just been a part of a profession that wasn't taken all that seriously for a long time, and now we're all being regulated. I was very much, looked at as I didn't know what I was doing, I didn't know what I was talking about and, I just faked it until I made it. Whether that's by a really good settlement or I had to go to trial and, lay my case out and, and win it. It was what it was and, really trying to push that boundaries of being uncomfortable. in terms of other skills, reading up on case law with respective area of practice. I make it a habit almost daily to check, on CanLii any sort of new cases that have come out and not always employment cases. I even look what kind of evidence was being admitted and how the case flowed to get an idea of how to present your case 'cause even after all these years, I'm still learning how to best present my case to opposing counsel or to a judge. I also watch a lot of live court streams. I like to watch how people bring evidence in how a case flows, what lands, what doesn't, what's a good way in terms of how to speak to a witness or just any of those small little bits of information that I can learn about I think is great. Being organized and on top of everything will save you 10 times over. It can be really hard to stay organized when you have a very busy practice but you have to learn these habits of how to diarize, how to know what your next step is, what your next move is, what needs to be done. It'll just become habit and second nature to do those things. It'll get you out of a lot of trouble, like missing limitation periods or missing certain filing dates. Utilize your calendar to put in deadlines for everything, reminders for everything, because you inevitably will forget. And, setting, expectations for myself to my clients to getting things done when I have the chance to do it. That's the advice that I try and give anybody starting out. Organization, be confident, make sure that you're up to date on new rules, regulations, whatever it is that, applies to your profession and also to just enjoy it. It's stressful and it can be a lot of work and it can be overwhelming, but if you don't enjoy it through all of that, then what are you really doing? Maybe this isn't the job for you.

Tara.edwards 17:39

I love everything you said because your calendar is your best friend. I put a reminder for the reminder because you are going to forget because we are not perfect people and we have lives outside the office, in the office, there's no way to single handedly juggle your life and your career without a calendar.

Melanie Schon 17:59

It eliminates a lot of that middle of the night anxiety. of Balancing that work life is really important to me, and it should be to everybody and so a big part of doing that is setting yourself up for success and keeping those reminders and those checks and balances in place to make sure that you are happy, your clients are happy, everything is moving as it should, nothing's getting, lost or fall into the cracks.

Tara.edwards 18:21

The other piece I loved is when you said, fake it till you make it. I remember saying that to a paralegal graduates listen, my catch phrase is fake it to make it and she looked at me like it was insane. You are never gonna know all the answers. Our work is something where you are learning something daily so what you need to have is the confidence to know that you can find the answer.

Melanie Schon 18:42

And to one of your points, if I ever impose with a question by a client hey, what's the answer to this and I generally don't know it, I'll say, you know what, that's a great question. Let me sit on that and I'll get back to you and have it answered for you. You are alluding confidence that, i'm gonna find that the correct answer. Maybe I have no idea what the answer is right in that moment, I am, reassuring them that they will have a response that, was thought out and meaningful. I truly think it's half the battle and, I've done a lot of court appearances and, if you come off nervous, a judge will pick up on that and it's gonna be hard for them to really buy into what you're selling because there's just no meaning behind it. Even if you're not sure, act like you do and really radiate that energy, it will go a long way. So just like you, I always tell them that.

Tara.edwards 19:26

You have to walk in confidence and that's with everything. I know, for myself, I've learned a couple of new laws since being here and my last job, they were kind of like, do you know and I said, I don't, but you know i'm willing to learn. It speaks volumes 'cause it also tells the person that you have the initiative to want to learn. You're not like, oh my goodness, I have to learn something new. You're like, you know what, this will help me somehow, in my job path. I don't know where it's gonna fit in, but it's gonna fit in. My philosophy is that it always fits in. Even if it's 10 years down the road, that thing that I learned that I thought was useless. Here we are.

Melanie Schon 20:02

A lot of times I've had a really niche, set of facts that I have to do some, deep digging 'cause it's a little bit confusing or it doesn't come up and like you said 10 years later I have a similar set of facts and I'm like, I've dealt with this. I'm gonna go look back on my old notes and remind myself what the answer was.

Tara.edwards 20:18

When you look back at your career, what are you most proud of?

Melanie Schon 20:22

A lot of things. Probably sounds cliche, but truly making partner was the thing I am most proud of because it just hadn't really been done before and it was a lot of patience and hard work and advocating for myself, putting in the time, showing my value. It was a really big accomplishment. I come from very humble beginnings. My parents are both immigrants. They worked really hard their whole lives, and, they've always told me that, hard work will pay off and, it did. I frankly didn't expect it. I wanted some sort of seat at the table, but I didn't think it'd be in that capacity. I thought it would just be more of a management kind of role. But I'm super proud about that and I don't take it for granted. I feel very grateful for that opportunity. I look at it also from, I'm proud of myself, but I think it's something that I hope opens the door to other people in this profession or other professions that that option is there, that goal is attainable. That you can get into this place where you wanna voice in the room or you wanna achieve the top echelon of your profession. It is possible. Maybe it's with a different workplace, maybe it's on your own, but there it's a path there if you put yourself on it.

Tara.edwards 21:31

I had looked you up and I was like, oh my goodness, there's a paralegal partner and, honestly I was proud, and I don't even know this lady. I was in complete awe and I was like, does anybody else see this?

Melanie Schon 21:43

That's exactly the reaction I, hoped for when this whole thing happened. Yes, this is great for me and this is an amazing opportunity and, goal that I accomplished, but it means so much more, across the profession. I think that's the most important thing that came out of it. I hope that other firms see that it's an option and it's a good option, and that we are really good at what we do and we deserve to have that voice as well. And just give us the chance and, we'll show you that we know what we're doing.

Tara.edwards 22:11

I literally told my boss and sent her the link and I was like, just in case we ever get regulated out here, you know, jk, not jk. So if you could go back, and give your younger self one piece of advice, what would it be.

Melanie Schon 22:25

What would I tell a young me just to say yes. Say yes to the scary things, take on the opportunities and if you're not sure, you'll figure it out. Don't be scared to try something. Maybe you fail, but maybe you don't. So there's a couple pieces of advice, but they all kind of circle it together. Just go for it. Just take that shot and, just see what happens.

Tara.edwards 22:44

I like that, just say, yes. I love it because I think about my younger self, and how did I grow? I just kept saying yes. And I think all skills are not built through perfection. Some skills are built because you gotta make the mistake. It's called learning.

Melanie Schon 22:58

Absolutely. Whether it's a way that I've prepared for a trial, the way I've negotiated something, how I've assessed a file, I think I've learned more from things I haven't done well in, than things that ended up being successful because, I think it's in the things that are the hardest that, you learn a lot from. You gotta do things that are scary and that are hard if you're going to grow and learn from anything.

Tara.edwards 23:19

What is one skill, one experience, or one step that someone listening today could take right now that might open the door for them later in their career?

Melanie Schon 23:29

Ooh great questions. Starting off in a role that is seen as more entry level and as a paralegal, being an assistant, you know paralegals have no interest in doing that, they wanna jump right in, but try it, it gets your foot in the door, you learn so much. I think that there is so much value in every entry level position. Even if it doesn't work out at the place that you're at, where there's no growth there, that's already an experience you can take somewhere else. And maybe there is a growth path for you. Even if it's not the best fit, but you can learn and take something away from it, it still has value. Life is short, yes. But it's also very long. So if you're doing something for a year or two, and it's not where you wanna be forever, but you are learning a lot, then just take that time to get those skills and then bring that somewhere else where you can see more of a growth path. There's no shame in that. Even our paralegals started off in our firm as intake legal assistants, and they're some of the best paralegals that we have because they have such an array of experience and knowledge that. They're to me already further ahead than someone who has one year of being a paralegal. Just because they have more experience with the day-to-day operations of a firm, how to talk to people, client management, setting expectations. They already have such a stronger skillset from those base pieces that, learning the law is the easy part. Managing files, managing time, all of that. That's hard. That's the stuff that takes work.

Tara.edwards 24:52

Where can people connect with you or learn more about your work?

Melanie Schon 24:55

I do have LinkedIn, it's Melanie Schon. If anyone wants to reach out to me directly just to chat or have any questions you can reach me at melanie.schon@stlawyers.ca. I'm always open for questions and, and queries. I'm a mentor through the, law Society's, mentorship program. So if you're a paralegal here in Ontario and you ever have any questions about procedure or, cases that you have, you can reach out to them directly and get set up with me or just reach out to me directly. I love taking those questions. I always find it very thought provoking and, I always love hearing different perspectives from everyone.

Tara.edwards 25:29

Thank you so much Melanie and I will add it is very true because I emailed Melanie out of the blue and she emailed me back and here we are. Thank you for sharing your journey, and sharing your career. It is such a powerful example of what's possible in this profession from building a strong foundation to stepping into leadership and partnership. Growth comes from building your foundation, developing your skills, being intentional about opportunities, and continuing to show up and being willing to think bigger about what your role can be.

Melanie Schon 26:00

It's wonderful. I had a great time, Tara.

Tara.edwards 26:02

Let's reframe the question. Instead of asking yourself, am I where I should be in my career, or what's the next big step I need to take? Try asking yourself, is the career that I am building now creating opportunities for me later? Because the opportunities we're looking for are already being built through the work we're doing, the skills we are building, and the networks we are creating. Earlier in the episode, I asked you to think about this. What skills, experience, and networks are you building right now that might open doors for you later in your career? After listening to this episode, I would like to leave you with one task that you can work on this week. Identify one skill, one experience and one connection that can support your future growth and then I want you to make one intentional step toward each. That might mean volunteering for a new task at work, reaching out to someone in your network for a conversation, or setting aside time to develop a skill that you know will be valuable later. Careers in the legal profession evolve through experience, relationships, and small decisions you decide to make along the way, and sometimes the doors that open later are directly connected to the steps you are taking now. If this episode resonated with you. I invite you to follow the podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or Amazon Music, and connect with me on LinkedIn. I'd love to hear where you're at in your journey. This is Sister-in-Law, the paralegal journey. Welcome to the conversation.