Episode 19: Interview with Vanessa Wilson

Transcript

Tara.edwards 0:00

Hello, my name is Tara, and welcome to Sister-in-Law: The Paralegal Journey, a podcast about the careers behind the case files. Whether you work in law, work alongside the legal profession, are thinking about a career in this space, or simply want an honest look at the paralegal journey, you're in the right place. Because every experienced paralegal was once the person asking their first question. Here, we're all about learning, growing, and supporting one another along the way. So welcome to the conversation. Before we start, this episode, which is an interview with Vanessa Wilson, I just wanna put a caveat in front of it. My, podcast recorder was kinda acting the fool, and it gave me a lot of trouble. In some of the recording, you're going to hear some unedited, portions. I could not for the life of me get this stupid thing to edit, and it was just really unfortunate. I kept them in because, I thought that Vanessa's interview was really, important to hear. So if Vanessa's listening to this, I'm really sorry that you have some unedited pieces. My podcast recorder decided to just completely act a fool. Welcome back to Sister in law: the Paralegal Journey. In this episode, we're sitting down with Vanessa Wilson, an Alberta-based paralegal, vice president of the Alberta Association of Professional Paralegals, mentor, and advocate, whose career reflects both versatility and leadership. With nearly two decades of experience across multiple areas of law, Vanessa has built a career rooted in adaptability, client service, and continuing professional growth. Her journey offers a powerful example of what intentional career development can look like. Vanessa's work highlights the importance of advocacy, mentorship, regulation, and professional commitment in shaping the future of Alberta's legal landscape. As you listen to today's episode, ask yourself, Am I actively investing in the skills, experiences, and professional relationships that will support my long-term growth, leadership potential, and future opportunities within the legal profession?" Hello, Vanessa. Thank you so much for being here today, and I really look forward to going into a deep dive of your journey.

Vanessa Wilson 2:14

Hi. Thank you, Tara. Thank you for having me here today. as mentioned, my name is Vanessa. I have been in the field since about 2006. I currently work for a mid-sized firm in Calgary. I've been with them for just over nine predominantly focusing on criminal defense and civil litigation.

Tara.edwards 2:33

Thank you so much, Vanessa. Can you share your career journey and what led you to become a paralegal in Alberta?

Vanessa Wilson 2:38

So I have a really unique journey compared to a lot of people. I, was a young mom and was kind of just working random jobs. I had a friend who needed some help in an office, so I had gone in and just helped him with some filing, and that really sort of sparked that passion for, being in the legal field. In 2006, I became a full-time, contract employee, with various, temp agencies in Calgary. I enjoyed that because it exposed me to a vast array of different offices, sizes, laws. Kind of knew what I wanted and didn't want to do. In 2009, I had interviewed at a firm, which I had really wanted to get into. They were very honest and truthful with me after the fact. They were like, "You know, we really like you, but you don't have a diploma." So I immediately, like that afternoon, enrolled at the SAIT, legal assistant program. Then jumped back into the field right after starting in family. Then, my life took me to Saskatchewan, which was very unique in 2011 with respect to that legal landscape and because I was from Alberta, I had a hard time finding work, and come back to Alberta and, jumped right back into temping, which was incredibly beneficial. I then landed my position in 2017, with my employer. He gave me the title paralegal because I had been in the field for so long. He had seen and recognized that skill set that I had honed over all that time and he had been a paralegal in his, past life before going to law school and becoming a lawyer, so he had recognized that that was a skill that he could develop over, well, now nine years So here we are.

Tara.edwards 4:13

That's really good, and especially because you worked with a lawyer who was a paralegal before, so he would really understand, what that skill set looks like, and the basis of that work and what it means to have, a more impactful or different role than if you were from a legal assistant standpoint.

Vanessa Wilson 4:32

Oh, absolutely. Jason has been a phenomenal mentor over, the years that I've worked with him. His goal is to, train people to be the best that they can be and impart his knowledge onto them.

Tara.edwards 4:44

I think that's so good when you have a lawyer who supports growth like that. How has your role evolved over time from like legal support into leadership within your firm and the overall profession?

Vanessa Wilson 4:55

When I had started we were very small. We grew exponentially during COVID because of that civil litigation and the criminal defense that we started. Since twenty twenty-one, I've taken on more of that, office manager position, I, drafted our, litigation department procedural manual and I've done all the majority of the hiring, at least the first part of it, and focusing more on, making sure the office runs as a whole. so I've basically become the office mom.

Tara.edwards 5:23

It sounds like, and at least from what I've been able to see from the, Alberta landscape that the senior paralegals tend to eventually move into legal operations, and they seem to, work that dual role of paralegal/office manager and I always think that is such a good way for skill development. One of the managers used to say to me all the time, in my past career as a McDonald's manager, "If you wanna move up, who are you getting to replace you in this space?" And that was a good way that I thought about career growth. If I'm gonna be responsible for my career growth, who am I taking with me to fill that gap?

Vanessa Wilson 5:58

When I interview, individuals for our legal assistant position, it's always, I'm not going to be in this desk forever. I need somebody to take over for me." The desk I sit in is incredibly busy. So I need somebody who can handle this chaotic workload of litigation, criminal defense, to move into that space so that I can move on to other things. That's my main goal.

Tara.edwards 6:19

In your view, what unique value do experienced paralegals bring to law firms beyond traditional administrative support?

Vanessa Wilson 6:26

Honestly, it is the support. It's the, ability that a properly good trained paralegal can understand the legal jargon, being able to understand while you're, reviewing disclosure what red flags are and, what's kinda going on when you're looking at stuff. How many times has somebody said something that maybe contradicts what they've said in a previous statement. So it's that, ability to be able to logically think this is what's important, because I know what's happening on that file and, he might not have been able to give me instructions at that moment, but I know it's coming, so I, draft a letter and send him the draft to review because I know it needs to go out.

Tara.edwards 7:00

I think that's, where, paralegals come in, is the ability to anticipate the next move. You know, whatever that next move is. There was one file that we were working on, and I was like, You know, I think this is what we should do to move the file along. What do you think?" And, you know, she was like, "Actually, that's a really good idea." So being able to think outside of the box, or being able to think, "Okay, what is next?" Because I feel like as paralegals, our job is to keep the file moving. I wanna shift our conversation a bit now towards your role with the AAPP. What inspired you to become involved with the Alberta Association of Professional Paralegals, and what does your role as vice president involve?

Vanessa Wilson 7:39

So I done a lot of volunteering throughout the last 10 years of my life, mostly with the cadet organization here in Calgary. I was looking at going back to school and was already a member of the AAPP since, 2021, and they had a, subcommittee open up with the previous, VP of membership and then I had ran in that year's yeah. As I was working through my, bachelor's of criminal justice, I had to take a class on, poverty and the law, and it really ousted that, deep down passion for access to justice that I had, and I, saw that as an opportunity to start running for the board as a way to get more involved. I'm not somebody who will be working as an independent practitioner. That's not a goal of mine, to be a court, agent or anything like that. So how can I, as somebody who's in a firm with the experience that I have, be able to, give back to my community? I was elected to the board that second year. What keeps me busy is the membership role, which is, an abundance of emails and questions. I try to support the president as much as I can where she needs me to and I've been working with our complaints director a little bit recently as well.

Tara.edwards 9:03

I would agree with you about the access to justice piece. I was a single mom in Ontario for a while, and, when I was looking at doing the things that I needed to do, didn't qualify for legal aid. I was told I made too much. You know, paralegals weren't regulated then. So I had to navigate myself through the family law realm.

Vanessa Wilson 9:21

Which

Tara.edwards 9:21

because I didn't have that. It is super scary. And I'm firm but fair, so trying to be fair, but trying to advocate for yourself and trying not to be scared. So I'm with you. I am very passionate about access to justice because being a single mom, I can see what happens. Now, I'm not a family law fan, so I can't see myself ever doing that. But there's other areas where, people need help. We're there to try to help them through a situation that is super stressful, whatever that situation is. That is super stressful and, to leave them with their dignity intact, not feeling like, "Well, I can't afford a lawyer. I must be some sort of loser." You know what I mean? I think sometimes it's soul-crushing when you feel like it's either you have to do this or you have to self-represent.

Vanessa Wilson 10:04

And, you find that mostly in civil, 'cause legal aid doesn't provide any support for civil matters. You know, you had a bad contract deal go wrong or something like that Who do you turn to? Legal coaching has become quite popular in Alberta, but even then, it has its limits. So what do you do when you can't afford a $600 an hour lawyer?

Tara.edwards 10:24

Exactly. For those who are unfamiliar with the organization, what is the AAPP and what are its primary goals for Alberta's paralegal profession?

Vanessa Wilson 10:33

The Association of Professional Paralegals a, organization that's actually been around for a while. We are a nonprofit organization is, up of students, legal assistants, paralegals, and anybody that's right. Mm-hmm. The big one is providing that networking resources, which we've been working on getting a lot of. We do webinars, at least once a month. We got a great director of education for that. She's getting some really interesting stuff out there. We have an annual conference which is a day and a half of just education of different areas. We've had some really stellar webinars. We have such a great group of women sitting on the board with such vast differences in their careers and in their education. One of our board directors, just recently did her masters I think a year ago, and I just learned that one of our directors is working on a doctorate. We've we just such a unique, versatile group of individuals in this field.

Tara.edwards 13:10

What opportunities does the AAPP membership provide that professionals may not find elsewhere?

Vanessa Wilson 13:17

The webinars, because you don't really get legal based webinars anywheres other than the AAPP. We've done some great ones when the Builders Lien moved into the Construction Lien Act and they're, they're free for members. So unlike LESA, which, you know, everybody loves LESA, I do LESA courses as often as I can, still cost money, where our webinars for members are free and then that conference. We're coming up to our third one, it's just such a great opportunity to, know other people, and look at subject matter that, you may not have looked at before, you might be interested in, and then make those connections for networking.

Tara.edwards 13:53

Yeah, and networking is really important. I find that I'm taking the opportunity to network with more people who, don't really know, what to expect in the industry. And the one thing I always say is, network as much as you can, but not with just other legal assistants or paralegals. Networking with your accounting department, networking with lawyers, assistant do?" Like, that doesn't help me because it's like, well, yes, you probably have an assistant. So there's no like, like make sure you keep with your teachers. Like, all of these are tools. Talking to recruiters, even if you're not gonna use them for a job. I've had some really amazing conversations with recruiters just to, sit down, down and network and this is not even, because I'm looking. This is just, "Okay, let's talk about what's out there in the industry. These are all tools in your toolbox.

Vanessa Wilson 14:35

I met a lady at conference last year, and she's called me a couple times. We had an associate, move to BC who was working for a franchise in-house, and when he left, he made sure to pass my information along, virtually introduced me to his replacement because I helped them with filing in Alberta. It's keeping that relationship there.

Tara.edwards 14:52

Regulation is an increasingly important conversation in Alberta. I'd like to explore your perspective on where the profession may be heading. What are your thoughts on the future regulation of paralegals in Alberta, and why is this conversation so important right now?

Vanessa Wilson 15:07

headed. What are your thoughts on the future of regulation in Alberta, the future of regulation for paralegals in Alberta, and where is this conversation currently headed? The future of regulation in Alberta now, from how I see the landscape, is very slow. We as a profession are pushing for it. It is very important. has been too many cases of, individuals coming into Alberta or being Albertans that are acting as agents of the court in, you know, the ACOJ that don't know what they're doing, and then it just ends up harming those individuals that they are, supposed to be helping. I've seen individuals come in from other provinces and then start working as a, independent paralegal because it's so freebased in Alberta that anybody can do it, and they have absolutely no legal educational background. The one individual was a nutritionist from Ontario, they were arguing on a cost award, and they were wrong. Like, the information they provided to their client was wrong. So they had paid somebody to help them with this, and then they got the wrong information. Is just so important that that access to justice is being properly looked at, and that gap is shrinking for those individuals that can't hire a lawyer, but may be able to be able to afford, a paralegal at $150 an hour. I not foresee regulation happening anytime in the near future. But I am always hopeful that I am wrong because it is very much needed.

Tara.edwards 16:33

Wow. That is actually really powerful because, when I'm thinking regulation, again, I'm thinking access to justice, I'm thinking another opportunity for, paralegals to help the public. I'm even thinking, paralegals being able to help, the lawyers that they work for. Like, in your case, you said, you know, "I, I don't really ever wanna go independent. And, I know other paralegals who said the same. But I've actually never thought about it, and why not? That happened in Ontario. That's why, the whole regulation train had to start happening because you had paralegals go rogue.

Vanessa Wilson 17:04

Yeah. And you're seeing it so often here, especially in the last little bit.

Tara.edwards 17:07

Mm-hmm.

Vanessa Wilson 17:08

profession as itself, people are like, "Don't hire a paralegal because they don't have insurance." Well, that's not true.

Tara.edwards 17:14

Right.

Vanessa Wilson 17:14

ones will.

Tara.edwards 17:15

Yes. Yeah.

Vanessa Wilson 17:16

will absolutely have practice insurance,

Tara.edwards 17:18

Yeah. Yeah.

Vanessa Wilson 17:19

hire a paralegal unless they have practice insurance. I know there's been on the news, paralegals in Alberta that are, defrauding clients,

Tara.edwards 17:27

Geez.

Vanessa Wilson 17:28

Funds. There is no way to penalize these

Tara.edwards 17:31

Mm-hmm.

Vanessa Wilson 17:32

that are going rogue

Tara.edwards 17:34

Yeah.

Vanessa Wilson 17:35

no, facility in place to hold them accountable like the Law Society does with lawyers.

Tara.edwards 17:40

Yes yeah. How could regulation strengthen career pathways, professional recognition, and public trust for Alberta paralegals?

Vanessa Wilson 17:49

I think that regulation could strengthen career pathways by, making it a, credentialed official, title. a lot of, companies, a lot of firms, a lot of individuals in Alberta don't recognize the term. So they, have senior legal assistants functioning as paralegals, and then, with the Alberta government, we have senior legal assistants functioning as paralegals, but they won't give them the title because now they have to pay them more.

Tara.edwards 18:11

Right.

Vanessa Wilson 18:12

they recognize paralegals, they won't regulate us. But it gives them that opportunity, if we were regulated, to be able to, really back we are in our careers and be "This is the career path I'm taking. I wanna step into this independent style work environment." my own insurance, even if it's through a firm, to be able to do more, like Ontario style, paralegal type work, for, legal assistance, gives them that, step of, "This is where I wanna go in life," a lot of lawyers still look and use the term paralegal for people that are doing administrative work, which, again, is fine, but that's not the true term of the word. I think the regulation is what is needed for that professional recognition that, the law society, needs to be able to recognize us as that we are here to make their lives better, and make their lives easier. A functioning paralegal the proper education and educational, experience, on-the-job training, whatever it may be, is only here to make a good lawyer great. And then that just puts that trust into Albertans for what we do for a living, a court agent for small claims court, you know that you're going to, have somebody to file a complaint with if, something goes

Tara.edwards 19:25

Yeah.

Vanessa Wilson 19:29

agent, that you can report to a college to.

Tara.edwards 19:32

Mm-hmm.

Vanessa Wilson 19:32

of that is here, and that's what regulation would bring.

Tara.edwards 19:35

What advice would you give to senior legal assistants or experienced paralegals who want to expand their careers and move into leadership roles?

Vanessa Wilson 19:43

advice would you give to senior legal assistants or experienced paralegals who want to expand their influence if those opportunities are there, you need to ask for them. Don't be afraid to ask because you're the only one that's going to advance your career. So if a position opens up and you wanna move into it. Had worked at a

Tara.edwards 19:57

Mm.

Vanessa Wilson 19:57

For a short period of time, the assistant

Tara.edwards 19:59

Mm-hmm.

Vanessa Wilson 20:15

the owner supposed to know that that was a position you had... I didn't want it, so I would've more than happy have given it to her, but it caused a lot of strife in the office because she felt she had been overlooked, but she didn't ask. You h- but you have

Tara.edwards 20:27

Yeah.

Vanessa Wilson 20:27

Ask because you have to learn, and you have to ask for those, and be able to move into those positions. Because if your lawyer thinks you just wanna do admin work, that's all you're gonna do.

Tara.edwards 20:37

That's right. You said it best in the sense of, you need to ask and you need to learn. I was listening to a podcast with, the lady's out in the States. She was, a paralegal manager at a firm and then started her own gig. But one of her, podcast episodes was on career-proofing, and really understanding what that phrase means, and really understanding how to go about that. I sat and I was like, "Oh, so that's what I was doing this entire time." Because I wanna take the course. I wanna know all of the things that I can know. I am the person who will talk to, the accounting people to understand, why they do what they do, and not necessarily to wanna go into an accounting role, 'cause, that's not my jam. But, to understand why does this arm do this? Why does this arm do that? And I will tell you from my own career journey, that was super beneficial, even when it came to teaching other, assistants. All that information all became tools in my toolbox.

Vanessa Wilson 21:31

Absolutely. I've never even thought of it that way before, career proofing.

Tara.edwards 21:34

Yeah, I didn't either until this lady said this phrase. Now, you and I, who are in the industry since the early 2000s, we're just we're just trying to do our job, and, understand our job a little bit better so we can do a little bit better in our job, we looked at it as a very different thing. But yeah, apparently it's called career-proofing. Looking ahead, what do you hope to see for the future of the paralegal profession in Alberta?

Vanessa Wilson 21:56

I do hope to see that we get regulated. I would love to see what happened in Saskatchewan happen in Alberta, where the lawyers, you know, took lead and pushed through that regulation because they saw the benefit that this profession offers to the legal industry. I hope to see, people get into the field that are passionate about it and want to, you know, advance the organization as a whole, really push towards just making access to justice, more functional in Alberta.

Tara.edwards 22:25

Vanessa, I wanna thank you so much for sharing your journey. Your story is a reminder that building a successful legal career is not simply about gaining experience. It is about being intentional in how you develop your skills, contribute to your workplace, engage with your professional community, and advocate for the future of the profession itself. I just really wanna thank you for taking the time out, being on this podcast.

Vanessa Wilson 22:47

No, thank you so much for inviting me. It's been my pleasure.

Tara.edwards 22:50

Let's reframe the question. Instead of asking yourself, Am I doing enough in my current role?" Try asking, Am I intentionally building the professional foundation, leadership skills, and connections that will create greater opportunities for my future?" Early in this episode, I asked you, Am I actively investing in the skills, experiences, and professional relationships that will support my long-term growth, leadership potential, and future opportunities within the profession?" This week, I encourage you to identify one professional connection that can support your long-term growth and reach out to the paralegal professional organization in your area to ask how to become a member. Professional associations can help provide mentorship, education, networking, advocacy, and opportunities that can become powerful catalysts for long-term success. If this episode resonated with you, I invite you to follow the podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you enjoy listening. Following the show helps more people discover these conversations and ensures that you never miss an episode. I'd also love to continue today's conversation with you on LinkedIn. Tell me how you answer today's reflection question or share your biggest takeaway from the episode. Whether you're a student, a legal assistant, or a paralegal, I would love to hear your perspective. And if you know someone who would benefit from today's conversation, please consider sharing this episode with them. Remember, every experienced paralegal was once the person asking their first question. So keep learning, keep growing, and keep supporting one another. This is Sister-in-Law, The Paralegal Journey. Welcome to the conversation.