Episode 28- From Kingpin to Kingdom

“From Kingpin to Kingdom”

Grace in the Breaking Podcast | Guest: Josh Townsend

He was known as a kingpin — the man behind a criminal empire that made him rich, powerful, and completely empty. In this raw, unfiltered conversation, Josh Townsend sits down with Elizabeth Everett to share the story he’s never told in full: the childhood that shaped him, the years he chased a counterfeit kingdom, the night it all came crashing down, and the moment everything changed. If you’re in a prodigal season — or watching someone you love live in one — this episode will remind you that no one is too far gone and no story is too far outside the reach of grace.

In This Episode:

•The childhood moments that hinted at who Josh would become

•What life really looked like at the height of his “formidable years”

•The prodigal season most people only saw from the outside

•The night everything came crashing down

•The exact shift that changed his thinking for good

•How God has redeemed his past to shape his present

•A direct word for anyone still chasing the wrong kingdom

Key Quote:

“You’re not too far gone, and you’re not too late.”

Resources & Links:

•Learn more about Grace in the Breaking: graceinthebreaking.com

•Join Inner Access Community for ongoing support: Community Tab

•Explore The Prodigal Series: Read and Learn

Connect with Josh Townsend:

IG @joshtownshend

If this episode stirred something in you, don’t sit with it alone. Come find real support and community inside Inner Access — DM ACCESS to learn more.

#ProdigalSeason #TestimonyTuesday #FaithOverFear #RedemptionStory #GraceInTheBreaking #ChristianPodcast #FromBrokenToBlessed #GodCanUseThis #PastDoesntDefineYou #FaithJourney

Transcript

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SPEAKER_00 0:05

Hi, friends. This is Elizabeth Everett, and welcome back to another edition of Grace in the Breaking. Today, I have the pleasure of a mighty testimony from a new friend of mine from the country of New Zealand. And I'm so excited to share his story and hear his perspective from Kingpin to living a life of helping and serving others. So there was a night that my guest actually heard sirens outside his own front door. And you know what? He knew at that very moment that his whole life was about to collapse again. And this is his story and how it was not the end. So tonight I'm sitting down with Josh Townsend to walk through a story that he's told sometimes before, but not so much to the United States of America. And if you're in a prodigal season, if you're waiting, you're watching, or you're going through something and watching someone self-destruct, maybe you're recognizing pieces of this story and it's resonating within you. This one's for you. So, Josh, thank you so much for being here.

SPEAKER_03 1:19

Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_00 1:22

So I want to get right into it. Can you tell me a little bit about your childhood? Like what shaped you? Were there any defining moments that sort of shaped what would happen in the future?

SPEAKER_03 1:38

Yeah. So um I guess my mother and both my mother and father both described me as being one of those children that didn't sit still. Um I was like always reaching for things and wanting to, you know, as a high maintenance child, especially a toddler. Um, and then when I got to school age, I was always kind of pushing boundaries. I think I was I had a real exploring nature. I really wanted to get out there and find things and do things and always pushed boundaries in the sense of like if something was unexplored, I wanted to get out there and see what was what was there. So uh as I got older, that kind of like that coincided with the rules. I wanted to push the rules. And um yeah, I was diagnosed with ADHD just a few years ago. And so as a child it makes a lot of sense why I couldn't sit still. And I found a lot of um a lot of different things to get my uh to get myself stuck into when I was young. And by the time I was 13, I had started smoking cannabis and I had stopped going to school. Um I had kind of got to, yeah, when I was 15, I got my driver's license, and then I was spending a lot of time out doing things I shouldn't have been doing with friends. Um yeah, I was brought home by the police for the first time at 13. Uh, and then I think because I found it so hard to focus at school, uh, I just really struggled to feel like I fit in with mainstream um education, I guess. I didn't, I felt capable. Like I knew that if I applied myself to the work, I could do it. And my, you know, I was getting that was reinforced to me a lot by my parents and and uh even teachers and peers. But I I have this like kind of feeling of when I was young, whenever I met a new adult, whether it that was a teacher or a friend's parents or um anything. I always used to think at the time, probably not consciously, but I had this feeling of like at some point this adult's gonna look at me and be disappointed with me. And I knew that was because I just was always pushing the rules, I think. And and yeah, I found it really hard to say stay within them.

SPEAKER_00 4:04

So um, you know, I look at ADHD as a superpower. Your brain works at a higher capacity than most people do, and um I I truly think it's a superpower. So I get I get how that could be. Um so when you were growing up and and you were experiencing these, was there a time that your parents kind of brought light or kind of wondered if there was there was an underlying cause that caused you to have um what is the word I'm looking for, that you were so curious about so many different things and that you you essentially had no fear and you wanted to push limits? Or was there kind of a defining switch moment that you can pinpoint remember that um kind of opened that door that you started noticing it?

SPEAKER_03 5:02

Uh when you say uh I think I always always felt different for that reason, you know, and my my parents were definitely aware of it from a very young age. Uh the I wouldn't say there was any one pinpointed moment, but certainly in the last like five years has where I've done a lot of my right, like that's revealed itself, you know, in terms of how I everything's fallen more into place the more I've learned about myself and the more I've learned about like uh, you know, through my studies and things like that. But no, I don't think there was any one potential defining moment, but I think all of the events that contributed to my story have had their own kind of like uh their own realizations at the time, I guess. It kind of it all just yeah, put itself together.

SPEAKER_00 5:57

Awesome. Well, looking back, um can you think of a moment? So when you said that you had started um smoking cannabis, was that just out of curiosity or was there, you know, just was it a teenager being a teenager?

SPEAKER_03 6:15

Yeah, um, I think like I gravitated to the kids at school who were pushing limits as well. And it was something that was just new. I actually didn't actually like the sensation of of of being high when I first did it. Um but I think it was about fitting in, but also yeah, doing this other thing that was not being done by most people. And it actually helped me slow down a bit, I think. I mean, I didn't consciously feel that at the time, like I, oh, this helps me, but I think I it has this way of making people um narrow their focus a bit or get more inside their mind a little bit. And I think for someone who had such a busy time up there, you know, it was something that helped me tune out a lot. And as a teenager, that quiet the noise a bit. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:12

Okay. All right. Um so the formidable years. Um, take us into the years where things really started to build. Like when did you first kind of have the desire or the taste um for success, like power and control that would uh that would lead you into where things got a little chaotic in your life?

SPEAKER_03 7:37

Yeah. So that was quite um quite a distinctive period of my life. So when I was 18, I started going to the gym. And I had always been very thin, very, very like, you know, skinny stature, skinny build. And I uh I started going to the gym, and within a year or two, a friend of mine uh introduced, well, wants introduced both of us, I guess, to the idea of taking steroids. And so we got money together. I didn't have a lot of money back then, but we we bought the first lot that we got onto. And within only a week or two of starting it, we kind of realized that it probably was made in New Zealand, that someone had made it from imported products. And so we really quickly um, I guess within about six months or a year, we had imported our own and started selling it. And when that happened, I suddenly had a taste of financial freedom that I hadn't had before. Um, and being, you know, 19 years old and having thousands of dollars a week coming in, you know, uh that was that was yeah, I guess the flexibility of having money at any age, we create our world at that point, and we have more resources to create our world. And so I created a world that was quite egotistical and superficial. Um, but yeah, that was definitely an addictive uh and that process resulted in addiction to that lifestyle. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:12

Well, uh you know, your story sounds a lot like mine, just a few different pieces to the puzzle, but I can definitely relate and understand what it feels like um to have that type of money come all of a sudden and and the power and even the pride that can swell up within you. So do you think that all of those emotions um do you think that that became like a validation because A, um, you always wanted to push the limits? And then B, that maybe you were feeding into wanting to change your body in a more rapid way. Um do you think that all played together somehow subconsciously?

SPEAKER_03 9:57

For sure. Yeah, definitely. I the I guess at 19 years old as a male, you're really quite vulnerable to uh what the the dominant form of masculinity is, I guess, and what you're around. And for me, it became my physical size was a reflection of my worth. And then uh over time, as I got older, that wasn't quite enough. And I think as I transitioned through my 20s, um the pressure to be financially successful as a male is quite high as well. That you you are expected, I guess, if you're in if you are in the top tier of men in society to be a high earner. And the only way that I knew how to make money at that point was through illicit means. And so it definitely all got tangled in together, and my ego was really running the show for a long time.

SPEAKER_00 10:55

Do you find like during that period looking back that once your ego reached you know, a certain level, did you kind of lose all inhibitions at that point?

SPEAKER_03 11:10

Uh what would you describe as inhibitions?

SPEAKER_00 11:16

Like, you know, like a subconscious pull that maybe, maybe this is not okay, or maybe I'm pushing the bounds a little too much, or you know, maybe I've gone too far that I it's too late to turn back. Um anything like that.

SPEAKER_03 11:35

Yeah, I I I think when you start normalizing deceit, whether that's breaking the law to make money, or for any reason, you start normalizing it across the board and and it can creep into other areas of your life. And so by the time I guess the most significant and most recent search warrants were were um conducted at my house, I had been deceitful in not just my um, you know, legal financial life, but um my relationships. Um it was kind of across the board where I normalized, well, if they don't know, it doesn't hurt them. You know, whether that's the police, whether it's um, you know, people that I was dating, i it all just fell into one big category. And I guess that had a a really negative impact on my self-construct of how I saw myself, but I didn't realize how negative that was at the time. I was just kind of surviving.

SPEAKER_00 12:38

I get it. The prodigal season is, you know, it's uh it's a season when we have allowed ourselves to be outside of what we're created to be. Do you how do you think your family look through the lens um at the peak of all of this?

SPEAKER_03 12:59

Um isn't how they saw me or just how they saw life?

SPEAKER_00 13:04

Well, how they how they saw like everything like that was coming um for to fruition around you, or did you disconnect with your family and friends at this point if they weren't a part of the illicit? Um because I know a lot of people shut down and kind of create a a new environment for themselves to be in, one that they're not held accountable in.

SPEAKER_03 13:29

Yeah, I was I think I had a a front up where people thought I was in legitimate employment or self-employed. Um I conducted myself as if I was a business owner and I was attempting to start businesses, but it was being funded, you know, behind the scenes by that illicit, you know, um, drug sales. And my mum knew, like she approached me one point, we we'd had coffee, and she actually said to me, I'm a bit concerned about how you're making money. And um, I reassured her that I was fine, that there was no risk, that you know, all these things. And it was only a year later, I guess, that I was raided again. And so she had already been through me going to prison once before. So I had been uh put in prison in 2017. Uh and they were so supportive. My family was incredibly supportive. They visit me um every weekend, and uh I was in there for a year, and I know that when I got out, I I I had this, you know, this focus on uh building a life, but I still was willing to offend. Um I didn't have any purpose outside of what I was doing. And so yeah, my family it was by the time this more recent stuff happened, they had already been through that once before with me. And I realized this time how much more significant it would be because it was the second time, and I I knew what I was about to put them through if I if I went to prison and things. So it was, yeah, the they it would have been incredibly hard for them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:12

Well, you're incredibly blessed. I hope you know that, that your family sounds like they gave you such loving support. You know, um, I've been a prodigal like you, and then I've also been the person praying a prodigal spouse home and praying. I I I have two prodigal children right now, and um days it just makes me want to lose my mind. And then I remember, you know, nope, I've surrendered them. Uh they're adults, and they will find their way, and whatever it takes, you know. Um with my faith, I just pray, Lord, shake them. So, from a parent's perspective, like kudos to them because I know personally that it takes a place of a surrendered heart. And um what a blessing, I'm sure, that it was for them to see you turn your life around and realize that second time around because lots of people don't get second chances. And that's wonderful. So let me ask you this what a normal day, when you were at the pinnacle, what was a normal day like after you got out of prison when you started, started the small offenses? Do you think that even like the the smallest compromise that you first gave, did it open kind of a pathway for you to jump back in feet forward?

SPEAKER_03 16:33

Yeah, well, when I was in prison, I met people who had more connections and more money. And so I had almost planned it. I'd effectively planned it before I got out that I was to continue again. And I spent a lot of time in there. I mean, I was just looking through the other day, I brought the box of I had like this cardboard box that had all my things in it from when I was in prison. And it was interesting. I I decided when I was in there I was gonna keep everything, you know, and I and I thought when I get out, I'm gonna have to, I'm gonna be able to look at this and see what it was like. And you know, I didn't touch it for years. I didn't, I didn't something in me was like, nah, you didn't want to revisit that at all. Um, but I had a look at it through it uh the other day, and what I found crazy when I was looking at it was how much I had spent time designing and calculating and working out how I was gonna do this better next time. Like I I had still in my mind was like, I need to make money. I need to be someone who makes money, and I need to do that at all costs, and I'm just gonna be so much more careful now. And in my I I realized I was still deceived, I was still deep in deceit, even while I was receiving a punishment that was crippling at the start. I mean, the first three months of being in there was horrific. And despite feeling like um my whole world had collapsed and I was suffering, I was still like, no, but I need to work out how to continue to offend in a better way. It just was crazy. When I when I think about that, it's mind-blowing.

SPEAKER_00 18:09

I I can't even imagine. Um I've been I've been arrested into jail a couple of times, and I can tell you that this woman right here, as even though I ran with Mafia and and then I ran with a motorcycle gang while doing things um that I'm not too quite proud of, I was not built for jail. No. Okay. I'm gonna tell you that um there was one time I was put in place with some really um hardcore women, and uh that was about 72 hours. And after that, I was like, you know what? No. Whatever I'm gonna do, if I'm gonna be more careful before I decide to change my, and it was obviously many years later, but I was like, whatever it takes, I'm not going, I'm not going back to jail. And uh so I I can't imagine a year. So let me ask you this was there a moment um when you got out and you started all this again that all of a sudden like you sensed something like was seriously about to switch the trajectory, um, but you kept going anyways. Do you feel like there was that something whispered to you like maybe we should stop? But you just pushed it?

SPEAKER_03 19:25

Yeah, I I definitely had a plan to to get out of it at some point, and I had lots of moments. I used to have dreams, like dreams that I was back in prison. And I would wow like, you know, during that four years between getting s raided again and getting out of prison, I I would have dreams that I was back in there and I'd wake up and I'd be like, oh my god, I have to hide everything, I have to get rid of everything, like I can't keep doing this. And then I would I would just slip back into complacency.

SPEAKER_00 19:57

Wow. So you literally got a warning.

SPEAKER_03 20:00

Yeah, I had multiple warnings and and I even had I even had legitimate warnings. Like we one of the big things that led to the police's investigation, the the the most, you know, heavy part of the investigation was that we made an import of this, you know, oil, this kind of precursor that that that came in. And we got a letter from customs saying this has been seized and it is this. We know it's this, you know, and you unless because it hasn't been declared properly, we're gonna seize it. You know, it wasn't illegal. But they named the product exactly what it was. And I looked at that and I thought to myself, well, there's no legal reason to get that, even though it's not illegal. They know what we were importing now. And we had a police officer in a in a police vehicle come past the workplace that I was at in the middle of the night and check the gate, you know, and then leave again. And we still didn't get rid of everything. You know, there were signs there that was just like, you Josh, what are you doing? Like you're about to get caught, you're being you're gonna be investigated for this. And I still um was so focused on my financial, like um I guess stability, if you call it that, that I doubled down and was just like, okay, well, what do we have here and what can we get made up for New Year's? You know, like it was just it's crazy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:21

It's so interesting how the brain bypasses all sense of direction when when we reach a certain pinnacle state of what we're doing. And and even though we're aware of the consequences, it's almost like a switch is just it's it's it's like we've turned off that light. Do you kind of feel like that was part of it, that moment, you know, where you were overriding the warnings? Yeah. Um, obviously, you just told the story about the customs. Like, don't do you feel like it's kind of like a light switch? You're like, well, I've gone this far. Um, I'm going to keep going.

SPEAKER_03 22:00

Yeah, it's that kind of sunk cost fallacy stuff where I was like, Wha I mean, I I keep coming back to purpose really. And I think because I h feel a sense of purpose now more than I ever have, and I know what that feels like to have purpose outside of financial gain, uh it makes me realise how much purpose was lacking in my life before that moment, you know, before that. And I I actually met with the police. Um my I was on bail effectively for three and a half years uh awaiting trial. And just before, you know, we I I put guilty pleas in and then I was about to be sentenced. Just before I was sentenced, I met with the police detectives that that arrested me and I I told them that this was the best thing that's ever happened to me. Um, that their their investigation and them catching me is legit legitimately yes, saved my life. And um I just don't think that's something they hear often from the offender, you know, especially not when the offender is is staring down the barrel of a jail sentence.

SPEAKER_00 23:08

Wow, that that is pretty profound. Um wow. So wow, I'm I'm trying to even wrap my thoughts around that. I I'm sure that they were amazed and also, you know, had to feel somewhat relieved that that you were actually showing remorse that this wasn't going to be like it was genuine, it sounds like they had to be able to recognize that. Um man, I love that. So, like in that moment when you you told them how you felt and you expressed your moments, did you feel like it was like a release of emotions that you were hungry hanging on to? Um, was it like a relief of the fear? Were there was there fear attached to this? Was there shame or condemnation? Like what what kind of emotions were attached and do you feel like they just released like that when you were able to, you know, verbally say, This is the best thing that's ever happened to me? Like, wow.

SPEAKER_03 24:13

Yeah. So so is part of the process after I after the search warrants were conducted and then the charges were laid, was that I had to work out how to fix my life and what changes to make. And part of that was that I had this diagnosis of ADHD, which actually helped me explain so much of my childhood. And part of that process of being diagnosed is to get a clinical psychologist to review a lot of your school reports. And when I got those school reports out, it was really emotional to read what had been written by teachers about me as a child. And especially because I was at that point a year into a psychology degree, I was starting to get a little bit more perspective about how, you know, there's a really innocent little five-year-old in all of us as adults. And, you know, I was really battling at that age, but I was taking on board all the all the feedback I was getting from adults around me, that I was somehow defective, that that the the the um my behavior was really defining me, and I by the time I was an adult, I really just felt that so disconnected from society. I didn't feel like I I I could um fit in. And I think that when I got to the point of awaiting sentencing and I'd put these guilty pleas in, I remember doing a bit of research online and and thinking about how this was the best thing that had ever happened to me. And I thought about why that, you know, wanting to shake the detective's hand, basically. I remember th looking that up and going, why do I want that? You know, I put it into AI. I was like, why it knew a lot about me at this point. I was like, why why do I want that? Why do I want to shake his hand? And um it said that that it's almost like the police helped me take a weight off my shoulders that I didn't know how to put down on my own. And so because I remember, I mean, I said to them and I said on TV as well when the media re uh interviewed me that I don't think I would have stopped if they hadn't caught me and and I and I think that that was really emotional for me to even realize that, to come to that realization and and to to own that to myself, like to actually say don't tell people you would have cause because you would not have. Like you were you were gonna keep doing this. That's all you had. Um you know Wow.

SPEAKER_00 26:51

Well, thank you for your vulnerability and thank you for sharing um with myself and with the listeners that you know that you you talk about that five-year-old little boy, and we we don't realize as adults a lot of times what words we're seeding and planting over anyone. And um, I know I've been guilty of this for many years until I fell flat on my face, but I know that there is power of life in my words, and I do my best to um speak life over myself and over my children in situations and surrender what I obviously can't control. Um I'm really sorry that the word curses like took root like that. Um you're not the first person, and I'm sure you're not the last that you and I will hear of. And even the patients that you will see in practice will find similarities, whether faith-based or strictly medical psychology, the common denominator is going to be what a person has taken on based on um what their ear gates have heard over the years. And I'm glad that you were able to come to the realization and to break that off and to, you know, start walking in your purpose. And, you know, what sticks out about your story to me is first of all, your accountability. Second of all, again, your healing. And third, like your vulnerability to share with others that you don't have to stay stuck in in a place of defeat, that you don't have to stay stuck or defined by your past that you can make and forge a path forward. You just have to make the decision to do so. Like, I'm really proud of you, Josh. Like, if no one has told you, like your your story, your story is amazing. And um, yeah. So let me ask you this: what has transpired um since the settling down of all of this? Like, tell me like where you have taken every bit of um pain, pain points from the experiences of of being because you were a kingpin. Like when I looked up, like that's what the headlines said. Like, so you went from kingpin to psychologist. So kind of tell me how that pain forged this purpose and why you're finding, you know, your identity and helping others.

SPEAKER_03 29:22

Yeah, so um yeah, thank you. I I guess uh if I if I look back over my childhood, all the um the feeling of being different and like not enough in some areas or um defective in others, and negotiating the friendships I had and early relationships when I was 15, 16, and how they affected me, I always had this kind of inquisitive nature of why I felt the way I did and why I was thinking the things I was thinking, and was reasonably good at predicting um how other people would respond or think in certain situations or what was going on for them. I was very grateful to be raised, um I'm very grateful to be raised by two very strong women, my mum and my grandmother on my mum's side, both had a lot of input into my life, and I my mum was so secure and so um attentive with me as a child that I I think she's done such a good job of raising uh a boy with empathy. And I, despite, you know, doing some things over the years that have been um really dishonest and deceitful and manipulative at times, I had a lot of the time crushing guilt for the pain I was I was feeling for what I was causing other people. And you know, it's a it's sometimes it's a really hard balance to pull yourself back from a situation that is somewhat meeting your needs, especially when you don't know what the alternative is gonna look like, um, even if you are causing pain. And so I I guess I've always had this kind of inquisitive nature and I've always been able to think about my own thinking. And in 2007, um, so kind of two years or so before I got involved in any of the illicit stuff, uh, I I did a year at university, but I went through a quite a serious breakup and it was very hard for me to concentrate. But I did pass my psychology papers, I didn't pass my biology papers. So I had a a bit of a uh a grounding in 2007 at tertiary level in psychology and biology. And I didn't know it, but that was going to kind of set up the next decade of my life in terms of the lens that I looked through. I I looked at life differently and I looked at thinking a little bit differently, and it never really left me. I always felt like it was in the back of my mind all the time and how I was approaching things. And then when I was in prison in 2017, so we're talking 10 years later, I remember thinking, I'm I should return to study. I'd like to do some philosophy, I'd like to do some psychology. I want to do that because I I feel like I'd be better at this now. I'm in my 30s, you know, I'm in my early 30s, I'll be um able to concentrate. You know, for someone who left school at 16, I was just like 21 was okay for studying, but I was still a bit a kid, you know, and I didn't have that academic knowledge or base or any friends that were still at university or anything like that. So it was tough. Then I had this plan when I was in prison that maybe I'll just go back to study. But once I got out, the financial pull of my offending was too strong and I just didn't didn't take action on it. Um but when the raid happened, the you know, in 2022, that was the most recent stuff. When that happened, I had about three months there where I've described it as like, I don't, I've never felt suicidal, but I can understand how people do. It was it was quite easily the lowest point of my life. Even being in prison wasn't as bad as the crushing feelings I had after being, you know, raided again. It was like, man, this is more serious now. I'm I'm mid-30s, I'm my son is older than he was. Like he's gonna really notice that I'm gone now. I'm I've let my family down, I've let my friends down, and I still at that point wasn't even acknowledging the harm that I had done by introducing drugs into the community. And so it took about three months, and then I decided that I would think it was gonna think about what I would do for my future. And the thing that I came to was I had looked back through my notes and my phone, and there was notes in there about becoming a life coach. And I thought, well, that'd be good. It's something I can use because I've got this, you know, extensive criminal record now. I don't know where I'm gonna get a job, but I could get into life coaching because I've got this life experience that I could like help people overcome their stuff, you know. And I had this because I'd been in some really dysfunctional relationships, I'd contributed to harm in them and I'd also been harmed, like had some very, very toxic relationship dynamics. I thought, well, I'd love to specialize in relationship coaching. I mean, that's something I'd do. But I found it really hard to marry up coat the relationship stuff with the criminal stuff when it came to like what is my niche? It was really hard to define a niche. So part of that, I thought, well, I want some more credibility than just to say I'm a coach. And I don't think any of these coaching certificates that I do online are going to cut it in terms of like beating the imposter syndrome that comes with feeling like I actually want to deliver care. If I'm talking to someone and helping them, I want to know that I am not just flying blind. I have some like some techniques and some ways of dealing, you know, doing this. And so I looked for formal education options and I ended up doing a diploma in psychology here through New New Zealand tertiary level, which was only a year. But as I did that, I realized, wow, this is actually something I can do. And because I got medicated, suddenly I was able to apply myself a lot more in their studies. And and as I learned more about it, I learned more about social psychology, I learned more about mental health in general. I realized I still had an active addiction. And so I went to a rehab center here. I did a part-time rehabilitative course that lasted about 20 weeks. Um and in that there was a lot of group sessions where I got to see other people's addictions and I realized how significant even addiction to alcohol can be for people. Um, because I was medicated, suddenly I wasn't getting the same drug cravings that I used to get. And uh I was a lot more settled and I got to talk about all of that in a group environment. Um, I drug tested myself every month for a year, formerly through the same uh process that the doctor would go and get me to do a drug test in. And I kept those records as a form of accountability. But once I did the diploma, I I thought this isn't enough. And I moved into the second year and turned it into a degree. And as time went on, I kind of like still wanted to be coaching, but I didn't feel that I was the more I learned, the less qualified I felt to be offering, you know, help to people. And so I did some things in the interim. So I did a men's support group, which I ran for a year. I just got men in there and we had between two to two to 15 people at any one time come in, and we just there was not really any structure. We just chatted about whatever was important that week. Um, and then as time went on, uh I took on individual clients when I got a bit more confident um putting myself out there. But if you look at my social media, as much as I I've I feel like I've been kind of like building authority for years in this space, and I've found it really hard to start marketing myself because I still get this feeling of like I don't necessarily feel competent yet to be helping people. I mean, it's now is not so bad because I'm in postgraduate study, so I'm in doing my master's degree in health psychology now. And so I feel like because I'm doing papers that are really aligned with learning to be a psychologist, I'm doing like clinical interventions and clinical assessment. I'm like, right, okay, now I I do feel far more competent now in helping people. Um, but it's moved. My focus has shifted from a financial gain, which it was still at the start, when I had that first thought of being a coach, it was money orientated. It wasn't helping people orientated, it was about merging the two. But the money was the still the focus. And over time, that that focus for money has dropped away. And the focus is more now, this is me. Like I love this. I I enjoy sharing my life experiences. I enjoy helping people problem solve their own. And I love the fact that I can overlay my own experiences into this and and help people navigate situations by introducing metaphor and and talking about being open about what I've experienced and showing them that actually this is possible. And so, yeah, that as part of the journey, I mean, that's just been um yeah, the it's it's it's kind of developed itself over the last four years, and uh kind of that's where I'm at now, anyway.

SPEAKER_00 38:14

Well, I love it. And and again, thank you so much for sharing. Like while I'm listening to this, there are some things that are coming up, and um, I want to be completely transparent with every thought popping into my head. So I find it fascinating and amazing that you felt a call to help people all those years ago. But from the way I look at it, maybe your character wasn't able to sustain your calling that you were meant to step into. So, yes, life, life life. You went through these experiences, but not only did it gain credibility in you, but it developed a level of your character that would not have been sustained had you not experienced that and come out on the other side. And everything negative that was going against you has now been turned around for good. And um I find that fascinating that as it is written with the enemy meant for evil, God turns it around for good, and that just kept as as I was listening to you, that's what I was hearing in my head, and I was like, wow, another story of redemption. And and let me tell you something the imposter syndrome that just tells you that you are in the right direction because that's where we like to hear these little whispers that were not good enough, or or a little pieces of shame, guilt, or condemnation try to rise up, but the devil is a lot. And I want to tell you that you are on the right track. Yeah, yeah, you would not be having these little pieces come up had you not, and you are going to change so many lives. I feel that with every bit of me. And you know what? Your your child, do you have how many children do you have? Two. All right, your children now see, they now see what your life was and how you rose, how you literally rose from the ashes, and not only did you rise and overcome, but you healed at the same time. And that they will never forget. So, Josh, bring it home for someone listening who is still living in like their own version of Kingpin, like they're chasing the wrong kingdom methods of money, and like they're building something that isn't going to last. What do you say to them right now?

SPEAKER_01 40:42

Um it's tough.

SPEAKER_03 40:51

I'd I would I would just encourage them to just look deep inside themselves and really think about what feels broken. What are they avoiding? What are they avoiding thinking about? What are they avoiding talking about? What's the hardest thing that they could picture themselves doing right now? What's the most vulnerable thing they could picture themselves doing? And it's probably the thing that needs to happen. Um it's far too easy, I mean, for a lot of people who are ego-driven, for example, because there's so many contributing factors as to why we chase these things. But if we just think about something, ego drives a lot, especially for men, I think, in terms of it's not, it doesn't feel superficial at the time, but it's it's something that we believe is going to increase our worth. And often that's self-worth that we're trying to increase. And I think that deep down, if you can look at what you're avoiding and what's making you feel vulnerable and start doing those things, you'll build worth outside of the ego structure, the the the things that are superficial, the things that the that the ego is built around. And all I can say is um if you're chasing unsustainable goals that are potentially illicit and that are that are gonna collapse at some point, there's a good chance you don't have purpose and that your your purpose is misaligned.

SPEAKER_00 42:23

That's what I would be misaligned. So many times we get caught up like in in pride, and like humility is like completely by the wayside, and we're so tied up in the monetary side of it. And and I know with anything that is illegal, um, it's the same patterns. We're chasing, we're people pleasing, we're moving outside of our own consciousness. And uh man, Josh, I just thank you for trusting like your story. So, guys, I want to say if you're listening and you see yourself somewhere in this story, you are not too far gone. You've you are not too late. You are not defined by your past. You've heard Josh's story, you hear his story of accountability and redemption and support from his family. So we talk about this even like as parents, we surrender, right? We we take our hands off of the wheel and we watch how overcoming is a possibility. So that's this week's episode. If something stirred in you, I'd love with you just to sit with it. You are not defined by your past and your pain, it's going to move you from purpose. But the next step, that is your surrender, and your yes is gonna unlock that obedience. Whatever God is bringing up in your heart, that is what you need to lay down and surrender. That is what we need to focus our attention on. I want you to know you're not walking it out alone. If you need help, you need accountability, and you need a roadmap. Check out Grace and the Breakings inner Access. Until next time, keep breaking it down towards Grace. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for spending this time with me today on Grace and the Breaking. If this episode spoke to your heart, please remember to follow, download, and share it with someone who might need a little encouragement right now. You can find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and all major podcast platforms. As I close, I want to leave you with this reminder. 2 Corinthians 12 9. My grace is sufficient for you. My power is made perfect in weakness. So no matter what season you're walking through, you are not alone. And there is always Grace in the Breaking. For more information, resources, or to connect with me, visit GraceInTheBreaking.com or email me at info at graceinthebreaking.com. Until next time, friends, stay rooted in faith, hold on to hope, and remember, there is grace in the breaking.