The Lorcana Crew Podcast
The Lorcana Crew talks all things Lorcana!
The Lorcana Crew Podcast
What's going on with these prices!? - The Lorcana Crew Podcast
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Disney Lorcana is taking off in popularity for both players and collectors with the Wilds Unknown season in full swing! As prices start to sore just in time for Set Championship Season, Core Questers Nick and Josh welcome Lorcana Crew founding member Sam into the booth to talk about the skyrocketing prices of Enchanted Rares everywhere! We hope you enjoy! Find us on Instagram @Lorcana.Crew and on TikTok @LorcanaCrew
What's up, Lorcana crew? It's Nick G here again with Josh D, and Sam is here today. How are we doing, folks?
SPEAKER_02Hello. I'm excited, dude. I'm excited to get this one. All right.
SPEAKER_04I'm happy to be joining you all today.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_04They say long time listener, first-time caller.
SPEAKER_00Yes. So uh let's see. What are we talking about today? Uh I am on the docket here.
SPEAKER_04Some questions for you guys. I want your opinions on.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Let's do it.
SPEAKER_04All right. As everyone knows, Wild's Unknown has had an insane pull rate for Enchanteds.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, compared to the compared to Whispers in Winter. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Why are they so expensive? Certain ones. So expensive though. Oh, my brain is thinking the pull rates are higher, so they'll be selling for cheaper. But as of today, you've got a friend in me is $650.
SPEAKER_00What?
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. It's not.
SPEAKER_04TCG market price $650.
SPEAKER_00Oh my goodness. Okay. Um the 11th of June. Wow. Okay. Um, so I think it's there's two reasons. Um one of them is ironically, because uh the card is playable, which is crazy. Um, but typically we only get one or two playable enchanteds per set. Um, this one I feel like there's more than one or two. Um, but yeah, because it's playable, that's driving the price up probably at least a little bit. Um the six and seven hundred dollar range, I don't that seems a little crazy to me. Um but I think it's also partly because because it's playable and we have rotation coming up that it will be playable for the next billion years, right? So it'll be around for a while. Yeah. But you know, again, it is a Toy Story card. It is.
SPEAKER_04Okay, and see, I was thinking maybe they just timed it really well with the new movie. Yeah, that is if now there's a Taylor Swift tax because she did a movie for the new movie or did a song for the new movie. If maybe Taylor Swift ruined my chances at getting all the Toy Story Enchanted.
SPEAKER_06Well, you just have to buy more packs, that's all. What packs? Where are they?
SPEAKER_02What do you do the local game for that has any left?
SPEAKER_00Um, well, there's some somewhere.
SPEAKER_04When you find them, you let us know.
SPEAKER_00I'll do that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm sure there will be plenty at Indy. Oh, yeah, for sure. Pack rush.
SPEAKER_04Pack rush, maybe so that leads me to my next question for you guys. What even even though like enchanteds go up because they're playable, again, why is this one so much more? I mean, there are tons of playable enchanted, and people do play with them, and they're hanging around at about 2250.
SPEAKER_02Just like the Atlantis ones. Yeah, the Atlantis ones are there. The Incredibles are are there as well. Some credibles are a little more expensive, but they're sitting at the 130, 150 mark for the set, the Atlantis and the Incredibles.
SPEAKER_04So is it really just the fact that this is Toy Story? Maybe like the it's the new IP of the set.
SPEAKER_02Making it. I think it's the I, if I may, it's the perfect storm, I think, where you have multiple facets of things that will spike the price. So you have you brought up Taylor Swift that will spike the price because she made a song, and there's a bunch of promotional things going on on the internet, on TikTok, Instagram, YouTube commercials of her and her Jesse and her like promoting her song. So that's one thing. You have Toy Story fans that were told because it's a kids' game, but it's for people in their 30s that want to play a TCG that isn't too intense. There were there's a lot of players that were told there's no there's no buzz or Woody left at Toys R Us, there's no Jess. We can't the VHS is sold out, the DVD is gone. We went to the movie theater and they sold out of tickets because this was before Fandango and all of the websites to let you buy tickets before you get to the movie. There's a bunch of people that were told no, you can't have. And now they're in their 30s and 40s, and they're saying, Well, I don't care how much it costs. I'm telling myself yes for these woody Toy Story products that are super desirable uh based on looks alone because the all the artwork is good. Uh, I haven't seen a card from this set that looks bad compared to you know, at your ITC and yeah, other bad artworks, but that's okay.
SPEAKER_04Um someone also pointed out online I saw that it is the enchanted that has both of them on it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. That will do it as well, right? I mean, you look at like Circle of Life for a while, um that has like Simba and you know Zazu and a whole bunch of Lion King characters on it. It was stupidly expensive for no reason, even though it wasn't really playable at the time, right? It's still $350. Exactly. And because it features, you know, multiple characters, multiple arts, right? Yeah. Um and I think the other thing is like Toy Story is just popular, right? Like, yeah, no matter which way you slice it, right? The introduction of Pixar to the game um brought a lot of collectors in as well, right? Um Disney is its own beast, but then you add in Pixar and you almost, I would argue, probably double um the number of people that are now interested in the game at least, right? And so that's gonna drive prices up because you don't necessarily have people playing, right? But you have people collecting, and that's really where if I've learned anything from Pokemon, right? Like the cards that are playable, they're like 10 cents. You can build a competitive deck, win worlds, for like 20 bucks. But the second that you start collecting Pokemon, you're talking thousands and thousands, and collectors will pay what they want to pay, right? And I think that's that's also part of it, right? Um it's interesting though, because I haven't seen first chapter prices go up immensely. Um they're they're pretty steady. Yeah, and I also think like, you know, it has impacted early, like the last couple sets a little bit too, because like Dumbo was get dipping a little bit, now Dumbo's going back up, right? There's a lot of cards that were kind of dipping a little bit, and even though they're not really seeing much play now, they're they're actually going back up, I think, because of the influx of collectors into the market.
SPEAKER_02So yeah, that's what to that point. I think collectors are collecting, and also what's their first question? What's like what's relevant, right? Like, yeah, if I'm a collector, I go, okay, what's valuable? These, what's relevant? That's my backup, right? So I want to invest in the monetary value, and then what what is relevant? And if if they ask someone who plays, for me, if someone said, Hey, what's relevant in Lorcana, I'd be like, Yeah, fabled and forward, yeah, right? And that that would be anyone with a sense of you know competitive play or local play. Anything that's not rotating is relevant, so I think that's why it's impacting the fabled set, which also has a double whammy of being underprinted, yeah, and not rotate and not being affected by rotation. So it it just doubles down, and collectors which are great to be a part of the game, happy it come join the fun. We're having fun, as long as you're not a scalper, great, cool. I'm still gonna open my packs, and then if you if I get my enchanteds and they keep the pull rates high, and I don't care about that specific enchanted or iconic, and everyone else does. I can sell it and make some money. Great, cool. I'm glad that factor is there, but it's that colorful.
SPEAKER_00Just hey, you know, you gotta be cool over there. You know, some of us are poor over here, can't afford the buzz, you know, did pull it.
SPEAKER_02Dude, I I have it's so when you have one, right? When you have one, you're looking at these prices, and it's like it's four thousand dollars, it's twenty thousand dollars for a PSA 10 buzz, and I'm like, yeah, but it's my buzz light year. Don't touch my toy, it's my toy.
SPEAKER_00That's fair, yeah. Uh it's going up and it keeps going up. Um, ultimately, I think that the the hype will die down. Um, that's not to say that cards won't be, you know, four or five hundred dollars, but um, I'm still in shock that the the you've got a friend in me is six hundred dollars. That seems a little egregious. Um yeah.
SPEAKER_04I check TCG Player every morning for market prices. I get to work, I make my breakfast, I get my caffeine, I open up TCG Player while I check my emails and I look at and it they're just climbing and climbing and climbing every day. They're going up.
SPEAKER_00And also could be the fact that, like you said, you can't find wilds anywhere, so nobody can really open more.
SPEAKER_02It's it's sold out quick, it's sold out quick, fast, and also if I may say also normally by now we're in month two of a set, right? And there's a three-month period where this is when our when that restock that the distributors say, Hey, want to buy a couple more boxes. But no, I'm I mean, I've no, I'm I know a couple owners of TCG stores, and there's no conversations being had from distributors. It's hey, what are you pre-ordering pre-ordering for wilds? Or not wilds of attack. Yeah, what are you pre-ordering for attack? There is no restock conversations happening. It's this is what you got, now we're moving on. And I don't work for distributors, so I don't get to walk in the warehouse and see how much uh wilds they have, but people are asking for it and they're saying, sorry, we got attacked to move, and as a distributor, they're not gonna want to give you wilds, and they'll give you wilds halfway through attack.
SPEAKER_04Do you think that is affecting it too? The fact that it's a shorter oh, yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_00There's a shorter cycles, yeah, for sure. I mean, we're already even if you just look at like the players playing it, right? I mean, even in Setchamps, right? I mean, toys are competitive in core, um, and they're top eighting everywhere. And people like the max rarity. Yeah, I mean, my buddy, you might cubby cubby top aided uh set champs this past weekend with toys. Hadn't like it really hadn't played the deck before. He's like, Hey, can I borrow your deck while you're out of town? Yeah, sure, you go. And he top ate it with it. It's it's a good deck. Uh red, red, yellow, or green yellow. Red yellow, yeah. Green yellow is not there yet. We need next.
SPEAKER_04See, I wanted a green red toys, and Josh told me yellow red was much better.
SPEAKER_00Next set, maybe, maybe next set.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, so that actually brings me to my next question for you boys. Set camps, huge turnouts everywhere. We look, we're looking on Ravens, the play hub, and everywhere is totally full. Is it again because it's Toy Story? More people are just in the game now. It's what what do you think is adding to this uptick in tournament turnout?
SPEAKER_02You you go first, and I'll follow up.
SPEAKER_00I am I'm surprised, right? Because um I coming from a person who's not played any core this set, literally none. I haven't played it. Um but when I still see dogs everywhere, I'm like, guys, you're having fun with this? Okay, they're not.
SPEAKER_02They just well, they want to win the code.
SPEAKER_00But I think I think you're right. I think it is more people are playing the game now more than ever. Um, so hashtag Locana is dead, right? Totally, definitely get out of here. Yeah, yep. Crazy. Um, but also, like you said, uh the enchanted prices are going up, and that Woody's looking mighty expensive for some unknown reason. Right? I think that I mean somebody sold it for 300.
SPEAKER_04I mean it's the Toy Story tag.
SPEAKER_00And it really is. Yeah, and the fact that it's actually like I would argue the the first playable set champ promo since the original stitch. Um that also helps it immensely because, like I said, toys go into rotation. Exactly, yes.
SPEAKER_04And it wasn't really a four of in a deck. Woody is a for of.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Exactly, yeah. And will be around for the foreseeable future, the next two years almost, right? Um, if you get your copies now, you're good to go. And the fact that people can just show up, pay $30 and win one instead of having to later, when they're no longer available, pay $250, $300 for them. I think that's also driving up attendance. Um but I also think it's just kind of the summer season, right? Like people are out of school, they have a little more time on their hands to play, right? And it's kind of weird, right? Because you a lot of times I think of summer as like, oh, well, actually, everyone's kind of busy, so locals doesn't really fire as much. But what does fire is set champs, right? And I think because set champs are so soon after the set release that people are like more enthusiastic about the set as well, right? Because a lot of the times you have a, you know, you get the set, and then two months later for a whole month, you have a set champs. This one was very much like you get the set, you can play for a month, and then we're immediately going to set champs and we're gonna keep going, right? I think that literally four weeks. Yeah, four weeks between release Friday and set champs starting. Yeah, yeah. Um so that definitely has a lot to do with it, I think. Uh, will it stay at 250,300? I don't think so. I think it's actually gone up a little bit too. I think I I think I heard 500 for O Woody, um, which is crazy. I personally think it'll end around 150 after this whole uh we do have to remember it is only the first leap. Triple, which is triple maleficent. Yeah, yeah. Uh, but again, the playability factor and the toy story factor, I think, yeah, changes some things. But yeah. What do you got to say?
SPEAKER_02Uh me, I think one, we had Fest Festival of the Arts, right? At the very beginning. The very beginning festival of the arts have brought in a bunch of parts. Yep. We got all parts, and then now is the time where the people that were brought in from Festival of the Arts are confident enough to attend a set champ, right? Like Festival of the Arts hits, you get it intrigued, you get your starter deck, you're getting your butt kicked in at locals, and then you then like a month or two goes by, and you fizzle con is not the most complicated game to understand. It's it's like a very interesting curve of learning where you know nothing, you learn, and then cool, you become you can become a decent, decent player enough where you don't get you know, you one-two at locals, you two one at locals, and then that three-o at locals is that where you go into practice, you start thinking about play lines, you think about what is popular metal-wise, and then you can get that bump. So it's been enough time for them to learn to be a good player if they committed. So we have all these people from Festival the Arts coming in and wanting to compete and ready, wanting and ready to compete, and they have a goal, right? They have this, it's not a daisy with mediocre art, it is a woody chase. I'm I love this movie, I need this woody. I have learned, I can spend a week or two really learning and hitting up the competitive players because competitive players in Larcana will teach. They will teach and they won't. Yeah, it's not like other games where it's like, no, no, no, no, no, it's okay. You'll you'll figure it out yourself, bud. It's though, I I mean, if anyone wants to learn from me, I'm not the best player in the world, but I can get you a step above where you're at and show you what you're not thinking about. For you've you've top aided specific champs here and there. I wouldn't, you know. I got I got at least one everything, so I I can definitely get you from from from where you are to where you want to be, but I can't get you to DKP. Oh, that's a bar. Yeah. Um, so you have that, and then you have new players just jumping in. You have unfortunately Ravensburg Gurr and Playhub allows you to uh mark your attendance whenever and however, and at whenever you want. I can have eight stores in my area firing at the same time, and I can hit that button and be in it, all eight of them. So attendance is yeah, if they're not doing it correctly, yeah. Yeah, so you have high attendance, there's no limitations, everyone's gunning for it, people are ready and willing, or not ready and willing. So but but the intendant uh at our locals we have high attendance, and the people that are there are more excited, they are not just gunning for the woody, they just feel like there's some fresh IPs, and there's some and there's a future, right? Like most TCGs have this life cycle where it's like we started, can we get through get year one? Cool. Can we get to year three? How do we handle rotation and cards getting old? They did okay, they did well, and we're entering in that year three mark where they're and they have great IPs because other TCGs have just like Garthog the mu the mutilator, uh the synrax the the space invader. Like, no one like whatever, like eh, cool, you made up a cool character, great. But this is like we are bringing you you childhood, yeah, the nostalgia bombs.
SPEAKER_00So they they're ready to move on. And then they keep pushing forward and and adding new IPs, which I think is good. I I think one of the smarter things that they did is whether it was because they couldn't get the license or whatever, is they didn't add Pixar right away, right? Because I think there'd be a you'd there'd be a much different conversation if on day one in the first chapter we've got Buzz Woody, Elsa, and the whole gang, right? It's like now we're two or three years in or whatever it is, and it's like okay, we've seen Woody and Buzz like 17 different times, right? And I think people are getting that way about with Mickey a little bit, right? And like set one had one for every color. Exactly. They've cut down on the number of Mickeys they print, that is for sure. Um, there's still a Mickey in every set. I still think there should be a Mickey in every set. There should also be a Hey Hey in every set, but that's just personal preference. Hey, whatever.
SPEAKER_02Shout out to the dev mat that I got to see at Richmond with ahead of the hey hey mat, dude.
SPEAKER_00That was don't think you understand how badly I want that mat.
SPEAKER_02You we're not getting it. We can't. We'd have to murder, lie, and steal to get it. There's no way you know, maybe we can work something out, devs.
SPEAKER_00You know, just hit me up, you know.
SPEAKER_04You just have to be a faster runner than the one who does it. Nick's really contemplating that now.
SPEAKER_00Well, you cut out there, so I didn't hear that.
SPEAKER_04I said you just have to run faster than the guy who has it.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah, easily. Done. I can do that. No problem. End of year we come. But yeah, no, I think uh I think tournaments, I like I said, uh a lot of it is the Toy Story tax, right? Um and I think a lot of it, like you said, is is also new players coming to the game. Um I I hope it sticks this way, right? Because I think it's a lot more fun when people are showing up and being able to play what they want to kind of to battle it out, right? And I think that well, yes, dogs is the best deck, dogs is the best deck. Um people are getting a little tired of dogs, um, very tired of dogs. And so I think less people are actually playing dogs, right? If you if you want to win, yeah, you're gonna go play dogs, you're gonna win, it's gonna be fine. But you have these people that are like, oh, what about toys? What about you know green purple stuff?
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Okay, I feel like every conversation in Lorcana comes back to dogs, however, it hasn't won any major DLC or CCQ in the past couple months, right?
SPEAKER_00No, it has. It has. It's it's always in the top conversation for a couple weeks, yeah. Um Dortman was the surprise where there was not a dogs in the final. Um I think a lot of that is like Dogs is widely considered the best deck in both Infinity and Core. But I think the reason people hate it so much is it feels so oppressive that it's either going to twenty oh you or it's going to oh twenty and then twenty oh you, right? Like there's not that level of um Back and forth.
SPEAKER_02If I may, there when what there's not a lot of there, there's not a lot of blue green bend anymore. Like it hit DLC Richmond. It mirror matched DLC Richmond. And the community said, Cool, good job. No one's gonna play that anymore. Like, bend is so oppressive and so unfun. And as a community, we all went, Yeah, we're not gonna play Bend. We'll play Milo Thatch. We'll play Clarabelle, we'll play another version of it, and we'll get away from the less fun to watch and play. Shout out Fungus for saying, let's as a community as a whole, let's stop playing it. But uh, but like the dogs deck as a community, we're kind of being like, Yeah, we'll forgive you for playing it at a couple locals, we'll forgive you for learning how to play it. You take it to the tournament and it's okay. But the community's like, yeah, nah, nah. It's too, it's not, it's not entertaining, it's not fun for either opponent, it's not fun to watch. So we're just gonna kind of move on a little bit.
SPEAKER_04Well, good news is we will be moving on from dogs in a month because they all rotate out.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, they're gone, they're gone. Whoever let the dogs out is the Baja Men the dogs, they let them out and they grabbed them back.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. No, it's I think rotation will be a nice breath of fresh air. Um, historically, I am not a fan of rotations coming from Yu-Gi-Oh! Um, but um, I was pleasantly surprised with how I handled the first one, um, and seeing how much more fun the game is when you kind of reset the power level. Um, but personally, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Were you was it an ease into the rotation because there was so much reprint in Fabled?
SPEAKER_00Yes, yeah, uh, for sure. I to me, I I am a big fan of reprint sets um coming from Yu-Gi-Oh again, right? They re do reprints all the time. Um, granted, there's no rotations or anything, but to me, the fact that you can still be you can level the shock a bit of like, oh my god, every card that I've always played is now no longer playable. What am I gonna do? Right, it it does yeah, it levels it out a lot, right? And I think that you can really use those reprint sets to kind of craft what you want the next year or so to look like, right? Because I mean, and the rumors that Fabled was like a stopgap and blah blah blah, but they they did a good job of saying these are the cards I want in the format because yeah, this is the power level I want to play with, right?
SPEAKER_02And so shout out to uh shout out to one last hope. They said uh they reprinted that and I was like, what?
SPEAKER_04And I was like, Yeah, the the dev said we want red steel to be viable, we're gonna reprint one last and now rotation red steel, my deck crying over here is gonna be dead because I'm unless they reprint Mushu. I'm I'm losing Mushu, I'm losing Calhoun, I'm losing the steel fajow that gets you three lore.
SPEAKER_02I'm you still have Shirkon.
SPEAKER_04Shirkon's not pretty medallion weight. My deck, I'm also losing Shark. Yeah, for good or bad. I'm happy to see him go, but I'm also sad to see him go. I love to play him, I hate to play against him.
SPEAKER_00Guys, I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna say something real quick. Um, shark is fine. Yeah, he's fine. You can keep shark in, it's really okay. He's not that good, guys. He gets targeted by everything. He's a base, not only that, yeah. Nobody cares. It doesn't matter. I'm gonna sort of Hercules and call it a day. We're gonna move on with our lives.
SPEAKER_02You got sort of Hercules in the skill, you got Horseman Strikes, you got Dragon's Fire, you got and and see this everything, everything hits him, everything, every single thing besides like brawl gets rid of shark.
SPEAKER_04This is where having me, this is my first and only TCG. I'm still, I mean, I've been playing it since the beginning. I still call myself quote unquote new, as opposed to you two who have years of TCG.
SPEAKER_00Oh, wait, wait, we are young people over here. We don't years is a very derogatory term. Years means just because we have, you know, like you know, 30 years combined, like doesn't mean anything, you know, guys. Yeah, whatever. No, don't worry about it. No, I I really do wish they would have done a reprint set, and of course, we don't know what's gonna be attack of the vine, it could be more reprints than we've had in the past.
SPEAKER_02Um I do I think I think they're gonna if I had to guess, it's gonna be like fabled and then four sets and then the reprint set, so that way they can like like every double rotation time period they can re like clean up and and hit the base. Um I hope so.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, because like I said, I don't I really don't I don't mind the reprint sets as much, right? I'm even if it's just like just a reprint set, I wouldn't hate that either, right? Like Fabled had new cards, you kind of had to take a ticket. Finish your thought. I'm taking a ticket, I gotta jump in whenever you're done, but finish. Yeah, no, I mean uh the Fabled had new cards, it was wonderful, but even if it didn't have new cards, I think that's totally fine because you you allow new players to get in the game and get the stuff that they're gonna need for the next set. I mean, by that point, all this all the good stuff has kind of been you know played out a little bit, so it's it's time. Um, but yeah, what were you gonna say?
SPEAKER_02I'm gonna say that if we rewind the clock a couple months, fabled hit, and it was a reprint set, and every single one, they're a liar if they're if they say they didn't. All the competitive players said it's a reprint set, I'm not buying Jack, I'm buying the singles, and I'm not uh, and that's it. And I'm gonna go to the next set. You can't find it anymore.
SPEAKER_01And the competitive players that didn't buy the re the reprint set are like, Where's my fabled? I want my fabled, very it's like, well, it was available and you didn't buy it. So if they did a limited print reprint, then get on board, dude. We bought a case, we bought a cut, we bought what we could. We wanted those power lines, we wanted those eyed LIs.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I bought so much fabled, right? Um, but you know that people were saying I was one of them. I was one of them. I was like, I am not buying the set, I'm gonna buy singles, and then they showed me at the iconics. I'm like, nah, give me a case and a half, two cases. Like, we're we need that, right? Like, um, but I think it's I think it has to be done right, like that, right? Where it can't just be a reprint set. Like, personally, like, I think all reprints should have a different artwork. Yes, that's very expensive, and blah blah blah. But if you at least if it's new artwork, maybe like, and you're not gonna throw any new cards in, because I don't think you have to, but if it's all new artwork, that's that's good enough for me. Um I still gotta collect all the foils and everything, so yeah.
SPEAKER_04That's what I was disappointed with with Fabled, was because they did announce they would be doing reprints, and in every other set, if there was a reprint, it was new artwork. Captain Hook, Captain Hook, the dog, um, he roast uh whatever, uh let it go, like and everything since then. Dragon's fire.
SPEAKER_02But um great card new art and new map.
SPEAKER_04I I wouldn't even be upset if they didn't quote unquote reprint a card, but if they made a new card with similar or the same ability, which is like the magic, okay. Don't make it mushu, yeah, but make it another card that has essentially the same effect.
SPEAKER_02One lore, or they it it's any character on your turn. Like Mushu's when on your turn, when you banish, you get two lore and add resist. So maybe you take away the resist, or maybe you make it three lore, or maybe you make it one lore on your your or or your opponent's turn, and you get the same card which hits the same archetype, but it doesn't have to be the same card.
SPEAKER_04I say this as hope they reprint things and bring them back. And here I am with a list of cards that I'm gonna do a dance today. I don't have to see them.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean that the the reprinting but them but not reprinting them gets a little weird because then you're gonna have eight legal copies in infinity, right? And if they are actively trying to support the legacy format, um I mean they're having DSC sport, right? Imagine being able to play eight copies of Diablo, eight copies of Shift Diablo, right? Like it it gets a little too consistent. So I I see why they haven't done it. It's not to say they shouldn't do it with a couple things, but I I didn't think of that. That's fair.
SPEAKER_02I will say you didn't think about it, but I thought about it. I think as long as they spread the consistency amongst all archetypes, and that they make each archetype consistent equally, right? They make the bounce packages consistent, consist uh and then they make the disc yeah. As long as they spread the consistency equally among like four to five different color combinations, then they're okay. They just have to be weary about that.
SPEAKER_00About printing eight Prince Johns in your discard deck. No, thank you.
SPEAKER_04As long as they don't reprint Rhino and Giant Cobra, I'll be completely fine.
SPEAKER_02However, in a 60 card format, I don't care if you have access to 80 copies of Prince John, your deck is bad if you play 60 copies of Prince John. Okay. It is if if I have an effect, if I have a character that has the same effect, and all I run is that character, you're still limited to the I need the trigger effect, I need I need six copies of Prince John. No matter how many copies of Prince John you have, ideally, mathematically, eight copies is all you need to be consistent. And if every single color competition has eight copies of their consistency piece, then it doesn't matter how many quote unquote copies you could include, you just include the eight best copies of your discard, of your bounce, of your evasive, of your card draw.
SPEAKER_00I think that gets a little tricky when you talk about you know consistency, because if I can run 12 Prince Johns and 12 uh sudden chills, I will run 12 Prince Johns and 12 sudden chills because that is the most oppressive thing you can be doing, and that it snowballs, right? Yeah, it's it's snowballs, right? It really does, right? If and a quest for two. So at that point, I don't even care if I if I turn my Prince John sideways because I'm getting two lore and I'm just gonna play another one, right? So, like there's things like that where you do have to balance it, like you said. But yeah, it's on the devs. Yeah, I think we should turn ourselves to rotation because I know Sam, you have a wonderful list of cards that you would like to never see back here again. And I as well have a couple that so let's get to it.
SPEAKER_04All right, as I said, goodbye for drop rhino or shift rhino.
SPEAKER_03He does just just put just bell him. He's fine, don't worry about it. Okay, that means I have to play those colors. Well, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, true.
SPEAKER_03Then I have to play flurple.
SPEAKER_02Or red purple. With red purple.
SPEAKER_04No, then Sven is red is is blue purp is blue purple. He's a dual ancient.
SPEAKER_02No, it's just purple. No, that's you're singing on the wrong Sven.
SPEAKER_04Oh, wrong Sven, wrong Sven, I'm sorry. Yeah, um, giant cobra.
SPEAKER_00I mean, get that card out of here. Hate that card. Can't stand that card. Get it out of here.
SPEAKER_04Top deck a giant cobra to win the game. I don't. I'm done.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. The whole burn is not fun.
SPEAKER_04Yellow princesses, goodbye, Tiana and Daisy.
SPEAKER_00Bye, Daisy.
SPEAKER_04Get them out of here.
SPEAKER_00I don't I don't mind Daisy. I mean, don't get me wrong, I've lost triple Daisy many times.
SPEAKER_04I don't mind Daisy when there's one of them.
SPEAKER_00Because again, I don't have a card draw.
SPEAKER_04So yeah, give me give me my cards. I'll let you get it for you know one or two turns. Give me some cards, then I'm taking her out. But she's a one drop for defense.
SPEAKER_06She's kind of a powerhouse to deal with.
SPEAKER_04Um so yeah, get him out of here. I don't want to see them.
SPEAKER_02If and Nick, do you want to take next, or do you want me to take next? I'm not my list. I'm saving one. I got two. I got two that I want gone. And they're in the same color, and they're the same color. Oh, you're gonna say two.
SPEAKER_06Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_02We're good. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, okay. I mean with spirit? Here, yeah, yeah. Hear me out. I will make my peace, and this is it.
SPEAKER_04Now hold on. There are 8,000 purple genies. Is it obviously the unit?
SPEAKER_02Wish fulfilled. Wish fulfilled. Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_04I figured. I just wanted to clarify because there are a million purple genies.
SPEAKER_02Then there's a million purple genies, and they're all pretty decent. Um, the reason I don't like them specifically is I have met casual players and local players that are cooking with interesting deck ideas that just lose because Elsa and Genie exist. And like they're like, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do that, I'm gonna go down on card draw, but I can make it up later on turn seven, I can make it later on turn six, and as long as I can keep this character untapped, I can get a little bit of value out of it. I do have to use it eventually, but I like I do have to like I can get value at the right time. And with Genie and Elsa, Jeannie says, I'm gonna quest for a bunch, and I'm gonna replace myself. And Elsa says, Tap that down, I'm attacking it. I don't care. I can set up like I don't care how well you craft your deck, because I I think the one of the exciting things about Lurcana is there's no responses on your turn. Uh on your on your that that that Elsa kind of like really sneaks in and cancels it, and that's good. You need tap down effects on your on your turn to tap down and kind of cancel, but like Elsa, Elsa, tap, tap, tap. It's like, dude, I there's all these players that have lost interest in the game because Elsa just says, nope, tap it. And it's like because Ravensburg doesn't give ward and good effect, it gives ward vanilla and good effect, no ward. So I think Elsa and Genie frees up the ability for people to cook and not just once they get to that test phase and they sit down against blurbole and they go, Okay, well, I'm gonna either A, lose it to their late game removal, or B, it's gonna get tapped down and killed. And if it doesn't get tapped down and killed, they're gonna play Genie and outpace me, and they're gonna draw the whole time while they're doing it. So that little package of four or five genie Elsa, I'm very excited to leave so that chefs can step into the kitchen and and have room.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I think the the reason that people feel like it's so oppressive is that Genie is being played less and less, so I'm it is what it is. It's it's a good card. Um, it's a little slow, um, but you know, in a slower format, yeah, it's very, very good. The Elsa, I think because it's evasive and you can't hit it back, right, is what hurts that. So I'm gonna miss Elsa, not so much genie. Um but I I play purple. I play arts and I play purple. Um but um the number one card that I just can't wait to never see played again is Doc. I cannot stand that stupid card because just when I think that I've got it in under control, I've done my controlly thing. Oh, top duck doc. Oh, look, play a thing, and here's another doc. Oh, and then now you have six cards in hand and on the board, and you have zero. What what are we doing? Talking bad about the boy. Oh, not okay. I can't stand that card.
SPEAKER_04I think I love this conversation because we all play different deck types.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, oh yeah. I oh I hate that card so much because it's all and and the for the amount of times that you see two and you're like, oh, I saw two docks. It's like, yeah, but you top decked it at the right time, infinitely more.
SPEAKER_06Oh, it's so annoying.
SPEAKER_00Oh, look, I bumped in my hand, I have two ink left. I guess I'll just play a dock.
SPEAKER_02Get it out of here. Punt it off. I I do I do think that it's very nice of Ravensburger to Ravensburger, to uh to give Purple Steel one set with the Snow White to do like the Doc you know thing.
SPEAKER_01They give him one set, it's just one.
SPEAKER_02It's not that and it's it's solid, it's good. You get it's good. You get one set though. After this, it's gone. Ow.
SPEAKER_00Um, yeah. In theory, Doc is a very well-designed card. Um, it costs one too one too little. That thing needed to cost three, make it the same cost as friends, and I would be totally happy. Um but yeah, goodbye. Get out of here. Yeah. Um, let's see. Do I have another one? Not really. I I think for the m oh actually, just kidding. Um, the whole green-blue Clarabelle nonsense combo thing, no thing.
SPEAKER_04See, I've never really played against it much.
SPEAKER_06It's terrible.
SPEAKER_04It never bothered me because so slow.
SPEAKER_02We get it, you're gonna win. Yeah, uh the amount of times they're like Philip, and then I'm like, okay, here comes Philip sings, you're welcome, play Clarabelle.
SPEAKER_00I'm like, yeah, get a get a pulse, get a pulse. The you're welcome with Clarabelle combo is might be my most hated thing in all of Larcana, um, because there's legitimately nothing you can do about it.
SPEAKER_02Um you can't even make them attack because you can only give them reckless, and reckless says you can still sing, so it doesn't matter.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Um, yeah, I'm gonna go with those. The Clarabell line and Doc.
SPEAKER_04What do you sad to see go?
SPEAKER_00Oh, well, I know it's bad for the game, but I am I'm gonna miss Elsa. Um, I'm gonna miss the ramp package. Um I mean my boy, my shirtless boy with his secret ink. Um, I think for the most part, um I'm kind of at a point where it's like I'm at peace with a lot of things that are going. Um and I haven't really like had a single oh no, just kidding. Throw everything out I just said, we're losing the best deck in the game. It's gone. Guys, there's there's no more noise gone. Speedway's gone.
SPEAKER_04Red, yellow, rain.
SPEAKER_00So what am I gonna do with the rest of my life? Um, I don't know. Um, but yeah, so I think speedway is the one thing that I will promo mini at at uh at GameStop this weekend. I've already got six of them.
SPEAKER_02I know, but if you didn't have it, you can go get a GameStop this week.
SPEAKER_00I know, I know, and there it goes, rotating out. Um, yeah, racers, speedway is gonna be my pick. Um gone too soon. Please reprint them. They're never gonna reprint them, but you know, no, um, yeah. Yeah, and it was so close to being good, guys. I mean, sorry, it's the best deck in the game. Best deck.
SPEAKER_04It was so close to being competitively viable, is what you're saying.
SPEAKER_00No, no, no. Best deck. Best deck.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, you're right, you're right. I know nothing. I know nothing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Which not knowing I mean, I play this game fairly regularly. I would say I'm a decent player. I top eight every set channel I've never, yeah, yeah, but at least once I've top eight every set channel. Um, I'm really curious to see what the new meta is gonna be.
SPEAKER_02Like I'm excited to see what the lifestyle is, right? So we've had set one rotation, this rotation cycle. I'm interested to see what so far it has shown there will be two decks. Set one, amber steel, and uh uh red purple were the the main decks from set one up until rotation. They got the bounce package in set two. That those two stayed the the decks. Yeah. I thought you red blues in there, but yeah. Just from from the beginning, right? From they stayed competitively reliable from beginning to end. Then blurple and dogs, then blurple and dogs, blue, yellow, green dogs, and then a little bit of amber steel, only enfabled, but dropped immediately. But dogs stayed. I'm interested to see if rotation means the base two decks stay are established, then every set comes and improves them and what pops up to the smart players as the life cycle of a block, which is a magic turn of four sets, a block comes through. So I'm really excited to see what is established as the best two decks. And if they don't, I would love to see them drop off, but I'm predicting that two decks are established as the best, and then they move forward um as being improved or unimproved, and things can get better.
SPEAKER_04So or a whole new deck could take over.
SPEAKER_02No, no, no, that's what I'm saying. Like there will an a whole new deck can take over, but it will be one of the two, like the two that's are the base set. Like if you go back to Fabled, Lurple and Dogs. If you were going to competition, it was Burkle Dog or Burkle Dog. Lurple and Dogs, and you could pray for a purple steel. That was that was a whole meta. And then each one improved slightly, and some decks came in as sets came. Now, rotation hits. What are the two? If it's not just two, great. But hopefully, it's like a life cycle of the game, and I can get my patterns down and I can predict, and it becomes more of a readable game.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I think uh, you know, we we know literally nothing about rotation right now, except for you know wilds, but um it'll be very interesting to see because I think right now people are looking at like purple yellow, red-yellow toys, maybe some green yellow toys, but those are the kind of the kind of what are people are looking at. Um buyer Dales now, buyer Dales now. Yeah, I think it's gonna be very interesting, right? Because we're going to have this culture shock of losing the good blue cards. And by good blue cards, I really just mean the ramp package. Um you're gonna have to find a creative way to to ramp again. And I think that you know already we still have one jump. Wow, yeah.
SPEAKER_02I already know. You play Hercules on turn one, okay.
SPEAKER_00You boost them on that triple boost on turn four. Yep, already into that. That's a lot of cards. Yeah, and it's two, it's two.
SPEAKER_02You still have Mickey Mouse, you do have Mickey Mouse, you do have Winnie the Pooh, you do have Corella de Hill, you have Belle, you have Mickey.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, Christoph. There are definitely I think it just changes, and I think I'm interested to see that right now blue is like this oppressive control deck, and I I'm curious to see if that will change to be more of a a mid-rangy deck where yeah, you you you kind you want to ramp, but you it's not necessary to ramp like it is now.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, um you just put character-based removal and kind of hang out until you get to like that uh like big play on six and seven and finish it out.
SPEAKER_04I definitely want to come back on the podcast to hear how your thoughts on rotation changes once it hits.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we could be dead wrong. I'm down to be dead wrong. We're probably gonna be wrong. There's there's very it's very likely we are going to be we're gonna look back in you know two months for whatever that is and be like, yeah, actually, everything we just said, yeah, is wrong, and dogs steal dogs. Dog is just toys, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So I mean, it's it'll be interesting, but we did not ask what card are you happy or sad to see go. I know Sam you kind of talked a little bit about Mushu and stuff like that, but do you have any others?
SPEAKER_04Yes, red all all my red steel cards, they're all granted. I have been playing that deck for about a year. It just kept getting better and then it stopped getting better. So I I am sad because it was my favorite deck to play so far, I think, but I'm excited to try a new style, new things.
SPEAKER_02What about you, Mr. Josh? No, I'm gonna say I'm gonna miss Sale. Uh I'm gonna miss Develop. Unless it's enfabled, right? Okay, then we're good. We're good. We're good. Uh Sale's gonna be the main one, but I think if they reprint Depot, it keeps that blue safe. They won't reprint Depot.
SPEAKER_05No, bye-bye, bye-bye.
SPEAKER_02They won't. I'm gonna miss them both, but uh, I'm gonna miss Robin Hood Sharpshooter. Oh, dude, I love that card. That card's so good. I got one set. I got an Atlantis Actions Matter play Leviathan, you know, ramp with Kita deck going on, and it's been I've been trying to cook with it since he came out, and they dropped brawl and I tried and it didn't work. And I drew uh I think this set I I've been able to I'm I haven't top eight it yet. I've been ninth and I lost my win and in, which put me at uh 11th. So like if but I had one with it, then I would have been in, I would have got my Woody. But like Robin Hood, I feel like is prime right now because you have the Leviathan payoff, you have a Kita payoff to put those things in inkwall. I'm gonna miss him because it took me a year to finally get him to work to work. Brawl left, put him in. Ah, it didn't work. You know, now oh now we got a payoff. Discard pile. Let's go.
SPEAKER_00I remember when when it came out. Um I it came out in the same set as Return of Hercules, and I have pulled I I pulled that that enchanted so many times. Return of Hercules, I had so many. I have so many because every time I opened uh an enchanted, it was Return of Hercules. So I think I have like three or four.
SPEAKER_04Oh boo hoo. Um just naturally pulled enchanted.
SPEAKER_00I'm I'm not complaining, I'm just saying anything else would have been fine. But the point of it was I tried to make that work with Robin Hood, and I remember for a solid like 30 seconds, I was like, this is awesome. I quested with Robin Hood, hit return of Hercules, played a Molephus Dragon. I'm like, this this deck is the best in the game, and then I took her to locals the next week. It was not the best deck of the game, but it was in fact like that.
SPEAKER_02The bag, the bag and evolving and active player, yeah, but yes, I will definitely miss that one.
SPEAKER_00That is a that is a good one.
SPEAKER_06All right, well, I think we touched everything. Uh concluding thoughts? Yeah.
SPEAKER_04We'll see you in a week at indie.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yes, you will. Again, a reminder for those folks that are listening. All three of us will be at indie next week at the time of recording this. Um, but come up, say hi. Josh has got stickers. We'll be grinding, playing some side events, popping and video.
SPEAKER_02We'll we'll do whatever you want, we'll trade cards. We got a billion sergeant tips to sign. I'm super excited to meet all of y'all. We went from 300 followers at at uh Richmond across all platforms, and now we're sitting at almost 250, 2500 uh crazy stuff. Yeah, we are super approachable. I know I don't think anyone's not going to, but if you aren't someone who's you know who's a little nervous, please bum rush me. I don't care. You're not gonna maybe not Sam, but I'll I'm a preachable. No, don't bum rush my wife because then as a man, I have to do something about it.
SPEAKER_04I'm just the quiet one of the two, but please come say hello if you see us together or separately. All three of us, we can't wait.
SPEAKER_00Yes, for sure. It's gonna be a good time. Until then, Ink Smart and Quest Fast. We'll see you next time, folks. Woo!