Juan Bonilla- "The Mechanic’s of Pastoring"

In this episode I sit down with local auto shop owner and Pastor Juan Bonilla. Juan comes from a hard working immigrant family who in their greatest time of need, was met with the love of Christ through the local Church. That initial interaction put him and his family on a path they never would have expected. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:31

Alright, everybody, thank you for tuning in for another episode of the Spider Ministries Podcast. This is Morgan, your host, and today I have a longtime friend, uh a longtime single many uh resident, uh born and raised just like myself. Um I have Juan Bonita with me today. Say hello, Juan.

SPEAKER_08 0:52

Hello, how you doing?

SPEAKER_03 0:53

Alright, doing well, doing well. Um you uh you come from a family of ministry. Um much of your family has been involved in one way or another. Um thank you for taking time. You're a busy man. You have your own auto shop that you run for how how long has the auto shop been around?

SPEAKER_08 1:12

So uh we just uh we're going on our 13th year.

SPEAKER_03 1:16

13 years. Okay, so you're you're um a shop owner, you're a husband. Yes. Uh how many kids you got?

SPEAKER_08 1:23

So I got four kids.

SPEAKER_03 1:24

Four kids, what are the ages?

SPEAKER_08 1:25

So ages so is one year old, uh five-year-old, ten-year-old, and fifteen-year-old.

SPEAKER_03 1:33

Like you're just starting and then all the way through high school. Yeah, but that's it.

SPEAKER_06 1:37

Hopefully that's it.

SPEAKER_03 1:39

Um, you know, and so you've worn many hats, pastor, um, worship leader, um, your son, um, son-in-law. Um, so you wear many hats. And so thank you for carving out some time and uh sharing your story a bit with us today.

SPEAKER_08 1:56

Yeah, thank you for inviting me and giving me this opportunity to to share. I think it's very special.

SPEAKER_03 2:01

Yeah. Ah. Um, well, so how did how was the Bunilla home as you were a kid? How were you raised? Was Jesus present there? Um, you know, were you born into a believer's home?

SPEAKER_08 2:15

Well, that's a good question. So um so I I did grow up in San Clemente um at a young age, but I was actually born in central Mexico. Ah, which part? So yeah, so in Guanajuato. Well, the state of Guanajuato, which is right in between uh geographically, uh between Mexico City and Guadalajara City. Uh-huh. It's in the heart of Mexico. Yep. So I was born there. Um, same thing with my brother Nestor. We were born there, but we uh came to the States. We immigrated here uh when I was about uh almost seven years old.

SPEAKER_03 2:46

Uh do you remember living there much? You do. You do.

SPEAKER_08 2:49

I remember the whole thing.

SPEAKER_03 2:50

Was it uh like a little neighborhood or were it?

SPEAKER_08 2:53

It's more like a uh at the time it was more like a village. Okay. Uh so it was uh kind of like a ranch type, uh you know, farming type uh village. Um was a lot of farming. Um so growing up uh up to about seven years old, um, I actually went to kindergarten and first grade over there.

SPEAKER_03 3:11

So when when your parents said, Hey, we're moving to the United States, were you uh scared? Were you excited? Were you upset? Like what what how how'd you feel about that? Because that's a whole other world.

SPEAKER_08 3:27

That's a whole other world and a whole story in itself. But but but here's the thing. So my dad, my father, he was already working here in the States.

SPEAKER_02 3:34

He was here already. He was already here.

SPEAKER_08 3:36

He uh had a he had his green card, so he was working legally and everything. Um, and um, so what happened was that uh he had already put in the the pro put our my mother and my brother and I uh through the system as far as we're you know uh on our way to getting green card. And so but what happened was this. So my brother Saul, he was born down there as well. But when Saul was born, right away he he was sick. He was just sick. I remember that. Yeah, yeah. Uh doctors were trying to diagnose him in Mexico and see what's going on. So um before he was one year old, he got diagnosed with leukemia.

SPEAKER_00 4:14

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_08 4:14

And so at the time, um uh the the doctor said that if he stayed in Mexico, he more than likely wasn't wasn't gonna make it.

SPEAKER_05 4:24

Wow.

SPEAKER_08 4:24

And so then at that time we we immigrated to the states uh for the main purpose or the sore purpose of my brother getting um care.

SPEAKER_03 4:35

So you got a medical visa? Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 4:37

So for us to come over for him to get care. Okay. So um, so then that was the main reason why we came over. Okay. Um is because he needed medical assistance.

SPEAKER_03 4:49

Now, did you already outside of your dad, did you already have family here in the United States?

SPEAKER_08 4:55

So outside of my dad, yes, I had, you know, uncles, aunts, cousins, we had some family here already. Uh, but uh, but not, I mean, we we didn't really uh know each other that much, uh, because they they were pretty much here and we were over there. Okay. But once we crossed the border back in and we my brother started getting the help, um, then uh we um uh pretty much stayed here. Yeah. So was in and out of the hospital for about 10 years. For the first 10 years. Oh my gosh. He was in and out of the hospital. There was many times where uh he wasn't expected to survive.

SPEAKER_03 5:32

And you said you were seven. Yeah, we're gonna be able to do that. So so until you were 17.

SPEAKER_08 5:37

Until about 17, out of the hospital, and so um, so he was here at Mission Hospital. Uh, when it was Mission Hospital. So it came straight to San Clemente and we'd go to Mission Mission Hospital, and then eventually we went out to children's hospital up in Orange. Yeah, right. Uh, and so that was you know back and forth. And so since we were here, that's then Nestor and I went to Las Palmas School. Yep. And so we went to grade school work, shortclips, sucking high. Yep. And I did saddleback as well. Okay. So um, so we we we ended up staying here. Okay. I mean, we couldn't really leave. Sure. Um, and so eventually we all got our documents, uh uh green card, everything, work permit. I would say like uh in the late about 99. Okay. That was when we got everything officially. So um, so anyway, so that was a miracle in itself. Obviously, Saul, he's he's still with us. He's yes, he is. He has no leukemia, and yeah, he's able to um you know get past that. And so we're grateful for the help that we got and the attention that he got. So um, how God works in mysterious ways, right? Because if it wasn't for my brother's illness, we might have not come to the States at the time we did, or maybe not even come at all.

SPEAKER_03 6:54

Because it was such an emergency, the United States welcomed you, like, nope, yeah, you can come. Right.

SPEAKER_08 6:58

So when we got in here, um the the the USA, the United States obviously had the medical care, he they they had everything. So um, so it was um it was life-changing, yeah, you know, uh, for us to do that. Um, but uh here's the thing though. Um well I I I do have to to correct something though. Okay because I haven't so you mentioned it. Here's the thing. We were already in process of getting a green card and whatnot. Okay, but we we we couldn't uh legally get the medical visa because we were in the process of getting documents, because that's a whole other avenue, right?

SPEAKER_03 7:43

Right, a whole different avenue.

SPEAKER_08 7:45

Okay, so um, so that being said, I'm being completely honest here. Yeah, this is something that many people may not know, but my mother, Nestor, and I, and Saul did cross illegally into the USA.

SPEAKER_03 7:58

Ah did you come through uh Tecate or Tijuana? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_08 8:06

So but but it was very different back then.

SPEAKER_03 8:08

Very different.

SPEAKER_08 8:09

So uh very different back then. So they didn't have the the border wall and then the oh no, I shoot, yeah. So none of that literally, you know, crossed over. Uh, we'll get into details of that just because of you know uh different uh legalities and whatnot, but here's the thing though. Um the the the special thing about that was that um that my mom and my dad were willing to risk everything to save the soul, yeah, their their child. Yeah that was in desperate help. Um in need of help. And so we did that, but here's the thing though, we never once we were here, Saoul was able to get uh help um and we were still able to make things right, and we were able to get our our residency, work permits, and everything, uh everything worked out. Wonderful. Um so that being said, um, yes, we we did uh break the law there for for that time, um, but you know, uh eventually we got everything in order.

SPEAKER_03 9:24

Good.

SPEAKER_08 9:24

And so and so so that in itself, so so yeah, so I I did get to experience also growing up as a kid, um, you know, being undocumented for for for for a while.

SPEAKER_01 9:39

Sure.

SPEAKER_08 9:39

Until we were able to square that away. Yeah. Um, so thank God we did, and and obviously I'm a naturalized citizen of the US. Amen. Wonderful. So uh all my my my brothers are naturalized citizens as well. Yeah, they are, yeah. Uh my sister, she was born here. Yeah. Uh so Noemi, she was born here, and both of my parents, they both have their green cards, and they're actually thinking of also being uh naturalized citizens. Oh wow. So man. That that that'll be something.

SPEAKER_03 10:06

Let me tell you, I remember when my wife became a citizen, it's it's a ceremony. Oh, yeah, it's a big deal. It's it's quite even just from somebody that was an observer, right? It was a surreal experience to just get to observe it. And it's a special moment. Um, and I would encourage any anybody listening that if you have the opportunity to just observe it, oh yeah. It it's it's wonderful.

SPEAKER_08 10:33

It it's it's something else. Yeah, only the people that are going through it, you know, they can really, you know, the emotions, you know, the life-changing experience that you're getting an opportunity that everybody gets. Yeah, you know, and so um I mean for us, it was it was definitely life-changing. It was a huge blessing. Yeah. Um, and now, you know, years later, um, you know, we've uh taken we've been taking advantage of it. But here's the thing advantage in the way that now we're able to get back.

SPEAKER_03 11:04

I mean, you you provide, I mean, you yourself, you're a shop owner. Yes. Um, you run a tight shop, it's clean, it's up to date, you provide an amazing service.

SPEAKER_08 11:19

Yeah, so our shop actually it's been ranked um on the top 10% of the US shops.

SPEAKER_03 11:25

Really? Yes. Congratulations. That's wonderful. I know that's a lot of work.

SPEAKER_08 11:29

Yeah, we got ranked as the top 10% that is wonderful.

SPEAKER_03 11:34

Where can I see that stat?

SPEAKER_08 11:36

Uh, there's a number of places you can see them, but um, I I can give you the link for that. Uh, so we we're we partnered up uh a few years ago with uh um ATI Automotive Training Institute, yeah. Um out of Baltimore, okay, Maryland. Okay. And but uh they take the shops uh that are serious about owning a shop and serious about doing what they should be doing, and um they give you the training necessary to to be shop owners. So the thing is that I uh as a trade, I'm a mechanic. I work as a mechanic, you know, uh after high school. Yeah, and I was a mechanic. Well, a mechanic's dream is to one day open your own shop and have your garage. And so we did, but uh, I was never a business owner, you know, so I had to get a different set of skills to be able to be that business owner. So through that program and to equipping ourselves with those skills is how we were able to climb climb up the ladder to be that top in the top 10% of the US. Congratulations, congrats, seriously and um and the number of shops that are part of that, um as I as at least as of last year, I know that we're still the only uh Hispanic shop that is up there.

SPEAKER_03 12:48

Awesome. Awesome, good for you, man. I'm that gives me, dude. I already I don't take my car to any other shop, but that gives me even more confidence than I already had, which you had all my confidence. Yes, yes. Um wow, that is really cool. Um and I've gotten to know your dad, I've gotten to know your mom. Your dad makes the best cakes, let me tell you. I I love to bake, but nobody knows. That's another does he still bake his cakes?

SPEAKER_08 13:16

Uh he he he does or is he slowing down? He's slowing down a little bit, but but so he used to work for uh a small catering uh business here in San Clemeni for a long time, and that's where he learned the trade. It's wonderful. So he he does great cakes. Yes, he does, and so he's uh he's very well known in town by the community. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:36

Um and uh I mean our The Bonilla family is well known. I mean, for multiple reasons.

SPEAKER_08 13:43

Yes, yes, you know, uh well known uh for um you know, aside from doing ministry as well, but just being in being involved in the community in every aspect.

SPEAKER_03 13:53

When when when you're in a small town like that, when you're there for so long, you're known. It's just what happens when Allie and I first got married, um, because same stuff, I mean, born and raised, right? I mean, been here my whole life, right? We would go out to dinner and I'd always or go to the store or whatever, I bump into somebody, you know, I start talking, and she's like, you know, um, you know, there'd be times when we're out, I just want to put a bag over your head because everybody recognizes, and that's just what happens, right?

SPEAKER_02 14:23

That's just what happens. Yeah, that's just what happens.

SPEAKER_03 14:25

Um, so in this process of of you guys coming, I mean, I and that's just such a big process that you're right, that's an episode in itself. Um, but was faith, was Jesus there with your parents? Like, did they preach Jesus to you? Did they share who Jesus was? Where where was faith involved in the Mania household during that time?

SPEAKER_08 14:51

So um, that is the the the question because um when growing up and and once we were here in the states, my dad uh had already been visiting a small Christian church, but was wasn't really a churchgoer. Okay. Um my mom uh uh both my parents were not really churchgoers other than going to you know the traditional Catholic church, uh traditional mass, that type of things that we grew up with in Mexico. Easter and Christmas. Exactly. Yeah. So once we got to the States, though, um uh you know, I go back to my brother's story because in a sense, uh because of my brother having leukemia, um our family had a lot of needs. Of course. Uh so my dad was working two jobs, you know, catering and uh gardening or landscaping. My mom my mom was working in housekeeping, yeah. And so and they were barely making ends meet. And then my mom had to be at the hospital with my with my brother almost 24-7. So so so in in reality we didn't really go to church. Um and we were we were surviving. Yeah, we were surviving. Um I re I remember that um there was a lot of times where we had no food in the fridge. You know, we we went to school with no breakfast, we came back from school um to no dinner. You know, it it was one of those times where I'm the oldest of of my two brothers and my sister. So being the oldest, I I I I was worried all the time. Sure.

SPEAKER_03 16:35

I was worried about you were old enough to see what was happening.

SPEAKER_08 16:37

I was old enough to know that my dad was barely paying rent. You know, my mom like whatever she worked, it was you know, to put some food in the fridge. If that, uh other than that, she was at a hospital with Seoul with my youngest brother. So so growing up was really tough. But I I would tell you though, how Jesus was introduced to my family and how um uh you know how that happened. Let me hear it. Because it it it's so amazing that a lot of times we believe that the only place that we're gonna find Jesus is at church. A lot of times we believe that the only place we're gonna find Jesus is through Bible study. Yeah, you know, um, and that's not always the case. No, because the way Jesus came into her house is through bags of groceries.

SPEAKER_03 17:26

Oh, I want to hear this. Talk to me.

SPEAKER_08 17:29

Okay. So in the midst of so being in the hospital, in the midst of my dad working, you know, 24-7, um, Nestor's Nestor and I were out to fend for ourselves, really, because we we we had aunts and uncles, but everybody worked, so we're literally we were out to fend for ourselves. And so it was one of those days where we got home and my mom was there just you know, in a ma in a haste, just because she was worried about so my dad, I mean, everybody's spirits was down, it was like what's gonna happen. Yeah, but we had no food and everybody was just stressed out, and then we heard somebody knocking at the door. And so we went to the door. I think my mom opened the door, and and there was uh an English couple from England.

SPEAKER_05 18:22

Oh, is this who I think it is?

SPEAKER_03 18:23

Yes, oh man.

SPEAKER_08 18:25

So there was an English couple from England, Philip and Susan Kavanaugh.

SPEAKER_03 18:30

Oh man.

SPEAKER_08 18:32

And they spoke Spanish very well.

SPEAKER_03 18:34

Yeah, because they they spent time in Bolivia. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 18:38

They did their their their their missional training, and they spent years down there, so they're they were fluent in Spanish. So they knocked at the door and they and we opened the door and they asked if they can, you know, come inside and and introduce themselves. And I remember my mom and dad allowed them to come inside, which we were very embarrassed because you know, we had if we had any furniture, it was all you know old and you know, ripped, and uh we weren't living in great conditions. And so we were I remember that we were embarrassed more than anything to allow these English pe people that look very fine to come into our apartment and they spoke very well uh Spanish and they started asking, you know, uh where we were from, you know, who we were and and whatnot. And in those conversations, you know, my mom said, you know, I'm sorry, I can't offer you anything other than water because we literally don't have much. And um and my parents shared a little bit of the story of Seoul and the leukemia and the whole situation. Well, they left, you know, they left that day only to return later that evening with a bunch of grocery bags. They found that fridge. I never seen so much food in my life.

SPEAKER_01 20:00

That's cool.

SPEAKER_08 20:01

You meant we had yogurt, we had jello, we had you know just random snacks of milk, you know, we had eggs.

SPEAKER_03 20:11

You make my eyeballs, dude. Right.

SPEAKER_08 20:15

So these people didn't know us at all. All they did was knock on the door. Walked in to the stranger and we had a conversation. We didn't ask for anything. My family and I we're the kind of people that we like to work with. Yeah, we don't want a free ride, we never had a free ride and maybe a little bit of pride too, you know. And so when they came back later that evening and they brought groceries, and my mom was crying. What was going on? Oh no, we just wanted to give you guys they didn't invite us to church right away, they didn't open the Bible, they just brought us groceries, they just loved you, yeah. And so we started this relationship and eventually they invited us to church.

SPEAKER_03 21:20

How how many times a week would you say they stopped by to just see you?

SPEAKER_08 21:25

Um at least three times a week. Wow. They would come by to check up on us.

SPEAKER_03 21:32

And would they they would they uh often bring groceries or was that? Oh yeah, this happened many times. Oh okay.

SPEAKER_08 21:38

Many times. Wow. And so they knew what we were going through, then they started going to the hospital visiting my brother and praying over him. And so the eventually we found out that they had a small church, a small ministry called El Webpastor. Yeah. Uh and they were meeting at Cornerstone Church. Yeah, in San Clemente.

SPEAKER_01 21:59

Yeah,

SPEAKER_08 22:00

And so it was walking distance. So eventually we we walked in to find out that my dad had already been to that church to visit before. Oh but he never really stuck with it.

SPEAKER_01 22:13

Sure.

SPEAKER_08 22:14

Um so then we we we went and uh we started going there and we're there ever since we we got embraced into that family and um you know um that's how Jesus came into my family's life. It was a knock at the door with bags of groceries.

SPEAKER_03 22:33

So from that point forward, once once you um not just met Phil and Phil and did you go by Philip or Phil? Phil Phil. Phil and Sue Um and you actually went to the church from that point forward, church was a part of regular life for the Bonilla.

SPEAKER_08 22:55

From that point forward, church uh church was part of our the Bonilla family. Now it still took a long time for uh for you know uh okay so so God was gonna work in our lives through different phases, right? Sure, of course. And so you got the the the the entry level face, right? Where you you you pretty much come in um not knowing much, yeah, you know, and not knowing what to expect. But I do remember though that we wholeheartedly, you know, we were looking for something, and it wasn't money or it wasn't material things. What we were looking for is to be understood, sure. We were looking for to not feel alone, yeah, right? Yeah, to belong to a family, yeah. And so um we we found out there, and and so we still had struggles, of course. Um, you know, my dad had a problem with alcohol for a long time, and and we still had sold a hospital right now. There was uh uh a lot of times there was a lot of uh you know verbal abuse and that kind of stuff, and and so so we had to deal with a lot of that stuff, but but that being said, my dad never stopped taking us to church.

SPEAKER_03 24:17

And you now had a community that was present, you knew you knew at the very least a Sunday's coming.

SPEAKER_08 24:26

Sunday's coming, I I I want to go there. That's right, and you that's my safe zone.

SPEAKER_03 24:31

That's right, and you knew people were praying for you, yes, and you also knew that this couple knew where you were and they would come to you and love you at least three times a week.

SPEAKER_08 24:45

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 24:46

So and that makes the all the difference in the world.

SPEAKER_08 24:49

Oh the way I see it now is that even though it was filling Susan knocking at that door, walking through that door. You know, where the Bible talks about you know us being the feet and hands of Jesus. It was Jesus through Phil and Susan.

SPEAKER_03 25:22

Oh, no doubt. No doubt. How did they how did they know you were there? Did you ever ask?

SPEAKER_08 25:30

Um well they didn't know we were there, they um they were just wanting to get to know people in the community, so they were So they knocked on all the doors. They knocked on a lot of doors. Wow. And they didn't know that that day that that door was gonna be special.

SPEAKER_03 25:50

They had no idea what they were walking into.

SPEAKER_08 25:52

They had no idea.

SPEAKER_03 25:54

But they were walking in faith of we need to know this community because we're ministering in this community.

SPEAKER_08 26:00

They were not gonna wait for people to go to church.

SPEAKER_03 26:03

No, no, they went to them.

SPEAKER_08 26:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 26:06

I I met Sue. You you were there. Yes. Um, I got to meet her. Is she still with us? She's still with us.

SPEAKER_08 26:12

Okay, she moved back to the UK. She did. Yeah. But Susan's gonna be back here, um, planning to be back here on February 13th. She's coming back to California.

SPEAKER_03 26:24

Okay. I I would uh uh I would love to see her. I'm hoping maybe she makes another visit to El Bain Pastor, but uh I'm sure she will. Um I got to meet her and shake her hand. Um I wish I would have gotten to know Phil because everything I've ever heard is stories like what you've just shared, and sounds like a very special man. And one thing I've always been curious about an Englishman speaking Spanish.

SPEAKER_02 26:52

I mean, what did he did he have a good uh Spanish accent to go? Or was this an English accent mixed with Spanish?

SPEAKER_08 27:01

Uh no, they they they had a uh they didn't have much yeah, so so they had like proper English kind of kind of tone to it. Yeah, so therefore they spoke very proper Spanish.

SPEAKER_02 27:16

Oh, like the uh uh what is it called? Castilian?

SPEAKER_08 27:19

Uh Castilian or Castilian which is more proper. Yeah. Um in Mexico we speak Spanish, but it's more like slang. Yeah, right. So but but yeah, so they learn how to speak more or show proper Spanish.

SPEAKER_02 27:31

Ah, okay, okay. I've always been curious about that.

SPEAKER_08 27:34

Yeah, no, and so they were very well educated, you know, yeah, right in the UK and whatnot. So um, so yeah, so it it it it was yeah, they they they didn't really have an accent. It was it was okay. I've always been curious. It was very special, it was very, very cool. Okay. Um, well, I mean the the and so fast forwarding to I'm 41 now.

SPEAKER_00 27:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 27:57

Um from from all the people that went through that church, all the the the generations that went through that church at one pastor, um I'm the only one that still has a really close relationship with Susan.

SPEAKER_04 28:15

That's special.

SPEAKER_08 28:16

In fact, we still we we we we do WhatsApp call uh calls here and there uh through uh through the phone. Uh we s we text, um, we email.

SPEAKER_03 28:28

Does she remember that day?

SPEAKER_08 28:30

She does.

SPEAKER_03 28:31

Yeah. I bet.

SPEAKER_08 28:32

And so whenever she comes to the states now, because she's in the UK, um, other than her own immediate family, I'm the other person that she calls.

SPEAKER_05 28:45

Wow. Wow.

SPEAKER_08 28:47

And when she's here, we usually do dinner at least once a week.

SPEAKER_03 28:50

When how long is she staying, do you know?

SPEAKER_08 28:52

Uh, she'll be here probably for maybe two, three months.

SPEAKER_03 28:55

Oh, for a while. Yeah. Okay. Um I I I really hope because obviously she has no idea who I am, but just hearing so much about them, I I look at them as just these seasoned saints that just put this amazing foundation of love and gospel um preaching, yes, but also like what you're talking about. I've heard countless stories similar to this of just how these people that were not from that community loved that community so well.

SPEAKER_08 29:32

And Sue and Phillip, you know, they were not wealthy. No, they were not, you know, living the OC lives.

SPEAKER_05 29:38

No, no, no.

SPEAKER_08 29:40

Uh they were very, I mean, they had their home and what but but they were very limited, you know. Sure. And but they they gave with I mean, wholeheartedly everything they had. They not only started a one-past store here in San Clemente, but they also uh opened three churches in Tijuana. Wow. Just across the border, and also established a church in Guadalajara City, which now is over a thousand members.

unknown 30:06

Wow.

SPEAKER_08 30:08

So the the the the ministry that Sue and Philip Kavana started, and the I believe it was in the late um I believe it was late 70s, early 80s. That's when they kind of started the ministry. Um even though uh, you know, it's been many years and the Wampa stories now uh is being led by um here, Cornerstone. Uh with Ernesto Hernandez. Ernesto Hernandez now he's a pastor there. Yeah. Um, but you know, the the the missional seed that Phil and Susan started, it's been spread out through so many parts of the world.

SPEAKER_03 30:48

I've heard that. I've heard that they that Albine Pastor um uh has never owned a building.

SPEAKER_08 30:56

Nope.

SPEAKER_03 30:57

But most of the resources that they've ever come to have, all most of it, went towards missions. Correct. It was which is amazing.

SPEAKER_08 31:08

It was a very missional church, and we never I mean the max we were ever at any given point, maybe about sixty, seventy people.

SPEAKER_03 31:17

It's amazing what sixty, seventy people can do.

SPEAKER_08 31:20

Yeah, it was a small church. Uh never owned a building. We always rented or shared, you know. Yeah. Uh but it's amazing what uh that small community did.

SPEAKER_03 31:32

So um, how old were you when you guys started going to Elbine Pastor?

SPEAKER_08 31:38

Uh I was about uh probably about eight.

SPEAKER_03 31:44

Eight. Okay, so you've been here about a year or so. Okay. So then after that, when did you become a follower of Christ? When when did you uh accept Christ as your savior? When did that happen?

SPEAKER_08 31:59

That happened in a when I was very young, still, I was gonna say maybe about 10 years old. Okay. So uh so what happened is uh every you know how here in in the States we have BBS, right? For summer, you know, and so El Juan Pastor started doing the same thing um for a lot of the Hispanic community that didn't really have the opportunity to go to the bigger churches or whatnot because there was no Spanish-speaking you know churches around. And so uh El Juan Pastor would throw on you know a week of BBS at somebody's you know backyard or somebody's garage that had the space for it. And so I I I would the the first week I attended to that, it was my brother and myself. We attended, it was a walking distance from our apartment, so we would go every day for in the summer for one week, and and I and I still remember that about 10 years old, we were still having a lot of problems at home, and and um at the moment one one of the um the teachers there for BBS um read the verse of that if you and your household believe, you know, if you believe you and your whole household will be saved. And to me, that rang in my ear, my heart, because there wasn't anything more that I wanted than to my whole than for my whole family to be saved.

SPEAKER_00 33:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 33:28

So that day I accepted Jesus in my heart. And I prayed that prayer. I said, Jesus, I don't want my family to get lost.

SPEAKER_00 33:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 33:40

I want them to be saved. So that day um I accepted Jesus in my heart and um and so from that day I I didn't know that my life was gonna change forever.

SPEAKER_03 33:54

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 34:01

I wanna say maybe in 2024.

SPEAKER_03 34:08

Okay, so it's been a bit.

SPEAKER_08 34:09

It's been a bit because in 2024 it was a really hard year for me. Probably one of the hardest years other than growing up with my brother leukemia and everything. And that in itself is another testament.

SPEAKER_03 34:22

Okay. Okay. Do you want to share? Or save that for another time?

SPEAKER_08 34:27

Um, yeah, I can share a little bit. Okay. Um, whoever's listening, I mean, it's it's one of those things where you know, you grow up and and you get involved in ministry, you know, and I did, but I'll fast forward a little bit, but we can go back to that. But I grew up in ministry and I was a youth leader, worship leader, um, and then eventually I was a commission lay pastor at San Community Press for uh uh almost twelve years. Yeah. And um and opened my own shop and everything, and everything was great. Um, you know, uh live in the American dream, bought my house and and everything, and so you know, to that point you know, I thought I was doing really well for myself, and ministry wise, business-wise, the whole thing. Um and so mid-2024 was my joke here.

SPEAKER_00 35:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_08 35:25

Many people don't know this, yeah. Um, but in everything started around July of 2024. It actually started on my birthday. Um my five more my f uh three-year-old daughter at the time, uh, three and a half. Um we took a small family vacation for me to to get my head, you know, kinda out of the business. And um, she had an accident. She fell down a uh flight of stairs. Um we had to rush her to the yard. Um thank god she was fine. It was so just bruises and whatnot. Uh but little did I know that that was gonna be the beginning of of uh of trials uh for my life. Uh little did I know that that was the beginning of um my life being uh shake to the core. That I wasn't gonna be challenged. And it's in every single aspect of my life. Business-wise, marriage life, health-wise, financially, I mean you name it. And so the reason I call it my job year, you know, to make it short, and I'm telling you I'm telling you this because like I said, there's very few people that know this, but I think it's important that I share it is that November of 2024, so between July and November 2024, um I came to a crossroad where I literally has lost everything. Uh literally. I lost everything. Um I didn't know where I went wrong. I didn't know, I mean, up to that point I thought I f I was a good steward. I I knew the word. I prayed, I was serving the ministry, um, I was loving my wife and my kids as as best I could, I was providing. Um but I I even though I grew up in really poor conditions, even though I grew up in in very tough conditions, there was something that needed to be broken. And that was my heart. My pride. And so on November 10th, I will never forget that. November 10th um I had to do a business trip. Um but at that time Crystal had had emergency surgery. My wife, my daughter Gianna, my oldest, um almost four well, 13 at the time. Um was tr was being possibly diagnosed with what we thought could have been a really bad um well a really bad health issue. Uh we were feeling the worst. Um uh we had the fires here in California. We did that we got evacuated, where house almost burned down. Right. Um my business partner in the shop uh got diagnosed with leukemia. Wow. Um work slowed down a lot that I never seen it that bad before.

SPEAKER_05 39:09

Wow.

SPEAKER_08 39:10

Uh so our overhead was not fusible anymore. Nothing that we had done wrong specifically.

SPEAKER_03 39:19

Just everything at once.

SPEAKER_08 39:21

Happened at once. And um November 10th, I went to Las Vegas. That's where we were gonna have a um uh kind of like a I went to Las Vegas twice a year. Um part I was part of a 20 group, 20 shop owners that that we went there and and just discussed business for a whole weekend. And I went there and that day I was supposed to give a workshop on how to read profit and loss statements and the goods and bads, and the the do's and don'ts, and about a healthy sh uh, you know, financials uh for a shop. And I had pre-committed to that for a year before. Well, when I committed to that, everything was great and dandy. November to November 10th, that was a Sunday night. I was on my way to Vegas and I was driving to Vegas right in Barstow. Um I I took out my credit card to put gas. I declined. Took out the other credit card to put gas, got declined. Took out the other credit card to put gas, got declined. What's going on? My credit limit was dropped to whatever I owed on those cards. So over over just in a matter of overnight, I had no credit.

SPEAKER_05 40:34

Wow.

SPEAKER_08 40:35

And like what's going on? So then I got to the hotel and I checked in, and all my buddies were down at the bar having a good time, and they're like, hey, one comes like, I can't, I gotta go to the hotel. Up to that point, I hadn't told my wife anything.

SPEAKER_01 40:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 40:53

I was trying to protect her.

SPEAKER_01 40:55

Sure.

SPEAKER_08 40:56

My kids. And that night I got into the hotel room, and for the first time in my life, or at least in a very long time, I was completely alone.

SPEAKER_04 41:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 41:08

That's when reality hits.

SPEAKER_01 41:10

When you're alone.

SPEAKER_08 41:11

I was completely alone. And and I had talked to God, I had prayed, but my prayers were with the hope that I wasn't gonna get down to that level.

SPEAKER_00 41:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 41:29

With the hope that focusing on the promises from God that He was gonna rescue me, that He was gonna provide. And it's true. It's not I mean it's true, it's biblically. But it was a problem. I was still trusting my own strength. I was I was trusting what I could do. And that night I broke down, I got on my knees, and I said, Lord, I don't know where I went wrong. I don't know if there's any sin in my life that I'm not aware of. I don't know what's happening, I don't know, but if you want me to lose everything, everything that I worked so hard for, so be it. But what I need is I need the peace of mind.

SPEAKER_03 42:21

That surpasses all understanding.

SPEAKER_07 42:23

Yes, that's what you want from me. At that point I said to myself and to God, I've been there.

SPEAKER_08 42:38

I've been in a place where I hadn't had anything. I've been in a place where I know how how it's to feel hungry. I've been in a place where I know how what it is to literally have nothing. I said, so I know that lifestyle. And and if that's what's gonna be it, give me the strength to tell my wife. Give me the strength to to to deal with everything. And I remember that night I said, but but if your will is otherwise, and this is a trial, tribulation for some reason that I don't know about, I can't see it. The one thing I'm asking for is give us work. Yeah, give us work. Yeah, we we'll do the rest. Just give us work. And um I couldn't fall asleep that night until after I prayed, and I play I play over and over in my head that I was gonna have to sell our house, I was gonna have to let our employees go, I was gonna have to probably declare bankruptcy, I don't know. But um I woke up the next morning, November eleventh. Um and I was supposed to go down to the conference hall to to to be part of this conference. I woke up in the morning and there was only two things in my heart and my mind. Go home, your family needs you, go to your shop, your shop needs you. I was like, what? Why would I want to go home? I gotta go tell my wife everything. Why would I wanna go to the shop? What to tell my guys that we're done? Go home. Your family needs you to go to your shop. Your shop needs you. I got up, I got my things, I went out to the lobby. And I checked out. Check it out. Mr. Bernia, you just got here last night. You got a conference to go to. I said I know, but I need to leave. Okay, well you don't have to pay for the room.

SPEAKER_04 44:50

Hmm.

SPEAKER_07 44:55

What do you mean? Well, you got points.

SPEAKER_08 45:02

You got points. I'm like, well, okay, well, that was the first good news I've heard in a long time.

SPEAKER_03 45:07

Points came and saved the day.

SPEAKER_08 45:09

I'm like, here's my parking ticket. I'll take care of that for you too. Okay. I went into the conference room. I talked to our director and I said, hey, Kevin. I said, I I can't do this, man. I can't I can't do the workshop. My life is some ass. I feel like a hypocrite up there. What am I gonna tell you?

SPEAKER_07 45:31

I'm about to lose. I actually have lost everything. What do you mean? I said exactly that. I I don't know. Like my life has been turned upside down overnight. One after another after another. I can't explain it. It was like in purpose. Everything was being stripped away from me. So Kevin said to me, our director Juan, something tells me we gotta hear you out.

SPEAKER_08 46:08

I said, I don't know if I can do, man. I was like, something tells me we gotta hear you out. Can you hang out for a minute? And we'll put you on. I said, okay, fine. So I already had everything prepared.

SPEAKER_04 46:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 46:20

So I went up and the front and I talked to the shop owners about PLs and finances and do's and don'ts about owning a shop. And I did that probably for about 30-40 minutes. But then when I was done with my slides and stuff, I closed my book and I said, but now I gotta talk to you man to man. I gotta talk to you on what's happening.

SPEAKER_05 46:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 46:47

Oh this is great. But all this means nothing? It means nothing at all. Because it doesn't matter how much money you have, it doesn't matter how many resources you have, you can lose them overnight. There ain't enough money for you to prepare for the unknown. And here's the problem. When you have a little nugget, you put your trust in that nugget.

SPEAKER_00 47:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 47:16

Oh, I got a thousand dollars in the bank. I got ten thousand dollars from the bank. That'll get me through through a hard time. We start trusting this world, we start trusting our assets, we start trusting our bank account. And then reality God is kind of like a you know last resort.

SPEAKER_01 47:39

Right.

SPEAKER_08 47:39

Right? Unconsciously or consciously. And so I told everybody that I was about to lose everything. But nobody could believe it. Yeah. Why? How? I couldn't explain it. But what was amazing that after I finished that went on for like almost two hours.

SPEAKER_03 48:00

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_08 48:01

As I was walking out, shop owners came to me and said, Juan, I said, This is by far one of the best workshops I had. So I just got diagnosed with cancer before coming here. I didn't know if I should come or not. The other shop owners spoke out and said, Juan, I just took out a second in my house to cover payroll. Hey Juan, I'm afraid I'm gonna lose everything as well. And I that day I found out that there was a lot of us struggling. But very few of us are willing to be vulnerable to open up. And so I drove home that night. Oh that day, I didn't tell my wife I was well actually I think I told her, but I didn't tell my kids I was coming home. I got home that night, that was Monday the 11th. I wasn't supposed to get back till Wednesday. I came back and I told my wife everything that night.

SPEAKER_01 48:53

How was that?

SPEAKER_08 48:55

I was brutal. I don't think I've cried so much as an adult as that night. I told my wife I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_07 49:07

What do you mean? I said we're about to lose everything.

SPEAKER_08 49:09

What do you mean? I said my business has been struggling for about six months. Um you know, we got hospital bills, you know, we surgery, uh you know, we've uh the you know, just work has dropped tremendously and our overhead has has grown, the business has shrunk. I said I I've been trying to to get it together for six months, but we're so far in that it's humanly pa it's not possible. We're we're probably gonna have to sell our home. We're probably gonna have to uh you know start from scratch, I don't know. And and so that night we both prayed. My wife prayed with me and she said that she was with me. You know, that whatever happened that we were in this together. So Tuesday, November the 12th, I drive to the shop. I drive the Ortega. Those trips were the longest trips of my life.

SPEAKER_01 50:08

Oh those winding roads.

SPEAKER_08 50:12

And I got to the shop in November 12th, 2024. And my intentions that morning was to tell my staff that they better start looking for a job. So I'm walking to the driveway. I see the driveway that is pretty packed with cars.

SPEAKER_00 50:32

That's a good sign.

SPEAKER_08 50:33

And I walk into the front office and I tell both of my riders, hey guys, I gotta talk to you guys. And they're like, Juan, before you say anything, why are you back so soon? You were in your trip. I said, Yeah, but I gotta talk to you guys. Well before you do before you do, can can you can you work in cars today? I said, Well, yeah, but what do you mean? We're so packed, man.

SPEAKER_07 51:00

Like, what do you mean?

SPEAKER_08 51:02

Yeah, we're packed. All these cars started showing up.

SPEAKER_07 51:05

We were we're we're backed up, man.

SPEAKER_08 51:08

I said, when do you get busy?

SPEAKER_07 51:11

Monday morning.

SPEAKER_01 51:16

Groceries show up right when you needed it. And cars show up right when you needed it.

SPEAKER_07 51:24

So I said to myself, should I still tell the guys or should I just not say anything?

SPEAKER_08 51:31

Hope for the best? I didn't say anything. I hope for the best. That week was her best week in that year so far.

SPEAKER_03 51:42

End of the year strong.

SPEAKER_08 51:44

End of the year strong. This year, 2025. Was her best year yet. We were able to pay most of the debt off that we had accumulated. We were able to move into greener pastors. I had to uh lay off some of my staff, I rehired them.

SPEAKER_07 52:10

And and then I then I found then I realized that see God always has something more for us.

SPEAKER_08 52:28

He always does.

SPEAKER_01 52:29

Always.

SPEAKER_08 52:32

But the question is, are we ready for it?

SPEAKER_01 52:34

Sure.

SPEAKER_08 52:36

Because God wants to take us to Green Passures, He wants to He wants to bless us, He wants to provide for us. Obviously, He does. And obviously God cares about our dreams and our aspirations. He does. He cares about you know us providing for our families, giving them the best that we can as a father, as a husband. Right? And and so He cares about that. And and you know, He puts in us His spirit. And so, you know, our you know the things that we long or want to do or want to have, He cares about those things. You know, I wanted to be a shop owner one day, and I did. You know, if I would have gone back, I probably would have never done it. Yeah, it's hard work. You know, it's hard work, but but here's the thing in the moment you want to, and God allows you to do it because He cares for what you want to do, yeah. He allowed it to happen and He blessed it, yeah. But here's the thing You know, like Jove, is there something that I specifically did or sinned or way and out of went out of His will, whatever might have you? No. Like I I wasn't in sin per se, I wasn't going astray, but God needed to work with me.

SPEAKER_03 53:58

God needed to remind you where um where everything flows from.

SPEAKER_08 54:06

Yes, God needed to remind me that it wasn't me who did it. Yeah, I was I was used by God together because he knew that's what I wanted. He wanted to bless it, and he did. Yeah, but he wanted to make sure that it wasn't about me. Yeah, it wasn't about the nugget, it wasn't I s I need to completely rely on God.

SPEAKER_03 54:34

And I imagine this is I mean this this lesson that you had to learn, it's not specifically towards being a shop owner. No, no, no. This is this is and I would say I mean and we haven't even gotten to this yet, but I imagine parts. We we may oh no, we got time. Uh but I imagine almost I mean any believer needs to be reminded of this, but I imagine this was a reminder for you also as a shepherd, as a pastor, of remember I'm the shepherd. Yes. And and and re remember that that the Lord will will use any means necessary to remind us that all all of it flows from him. Correct. And it's for our being, it's it's for it's for our good to because otherwise our heads can get a little too yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 55:40

No, you you start trusting yourself too much. Yeah, you start trusting the system, you start trusting that, oh, if I'm okay right now, I'm always gonna be okay.

SPEAKER_00 55:49

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 55:50

You know, and then we forget that that life happens, that that we live in a world that is broken to a certain extent, that we live in a world that and now we see it now more than ever. The struggling, the, the, the, the, the birthing pains, right?

SPEAKER_01 56:08

Sure.

SPEAKER_08 56:08

And so we see all these things that are happening, and here's the thing, we cannot for forget our first love.

SPEAKER_03 56:16

So do you think in that moment in in just those couple days, you know, you described, you know, the home you grew up in, there was a lack. Um, but yet the Lord miraculously, miraculously through Phil and Sue, and then the church came in and and showed you guys who he was.

unknown 56:40

Right.

SPEAKER_03 56:41

Do you think, and you experienced that as a child? Right. Do you think that going through that moment through those couple days, you got a little bit of a taste of what your parents were going through? Yes. Yeah. Of not knowing what the next day was gonna bring. Yep. Um the isolation. Um, because at that point, you hadn't been in Lake Elsinore for very long.

SPEAKER_08 57:10

No, I've only been there for two years.

SPEAKER_03 57:12

Yeah, and and so I imagine there's a little taste of, oh, this is what it was like for my parents a little bit.

unknown 57:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 57:20

Which is which is, I bet I know you have great respect for your parents. Right. I've always seen that.

SPEAKER_08 57:28

But I imagine that gave you even more of oh my oh wow, because you get to a point where who do you turn to?

SPEAKER_03 57:34

Right. And your parents, I bet you've told them this. Oh, yeah. And I bet they looked at you and said, Yeah, I bet God showed up. And you know, I bet he did.

SPEAKER_08 57:44

And you know the thing is that I know for a fact that it was a God, it was a divine intervention. Of course, you know 100%, because Susan Kavanaugh pre-warned me. Susan Kavanaugh was here in the States early 2024. And I took her to the airport. Oh, actually, to her daughter's house, not the airport, her other charge. She wasn't gonna take it to the airport, but I took her there. And we had breakfast along the way. And as we finished our breakfast, Susan Kavanaugh said to me, Juan, there's something very heavy in my heart, but I gotta tell you. I said, What is that, Susan? Be careful.

SPEAKER_04 58:30

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_08 58:31

I'm like, be careful of what? You know, you got things going for you really well. God has blessed your business. You have your house, you're living the American dream. God has blessed you so much.

unknown 58:47

Be careful.

SPEAKER_03 58:49

She's seen this, she's seen this movie before.

SPEAKER_08 58:51

Yeah, and I'm like, but you mean be careful? I'm like, so okay, I didn't think much of it at the time. And then shortly after that, my mom tells me, because I talk to my mom almost every day, yeah. Driving home or whatever, I check in with my mom. And my mom said, Hey Juan, yeah? I just feel the need.

SPEAKER_07 59:18

Like, what's this about? Susan just told me to be careful, and now my mom is telling me that I just feel the need of praying for you. I didn't see the storm that was coming, but my mom and Susan did.

SPEAKER_03 59:32

To have women, it's women, the Lord gives us women. It it's it's an amazing way the Lord uses women in our life. Oh, yeah. And I remember a story, you know Pastor Ron. Yes. And you know how he goes to Africa all the time. Right, right. And he's been doing that for decades now. Probably twenty five, I think about twenty-five years, actually. So for his wife, Diane, it's just another day for him to go, right? Years ago, though, he's, you know, a week or two away from going. And she says, Ron, I don't want you to go. Now again, why? He's been there a thousand times. And Diane, if you know her well, she's not a warrior like that. She's a woman of faith, like your mom, like Sue. So it's not normal for her to say something like that. And if you know Ron, Ron is not one that can be controlled. So, you know, it's just weirded and oh yeah. But she says, Ron, I don't want you to something I I'm something's off. The morning, so the morning, so he chose he he listened. The morning that he was going to leave. Now Ron's a tall guy. Right, right, right. And he uh had his own construction business, masonary work for many years, decades. Right. And he's his back is not the best. Well, that morning that he was supposed to leave, his back got into tremendous pain where they had to call the ambulance to the house. Oh wow. Imagine if that would have happened on the plane.

unknown 1:01:37

Oh, jeez.

SPEAKER_08 1:01:39

Yeah, it's crazy.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:42

The Lord uses the women in our life to speak softly. Are we attentive enough to listen? And as a young husband, you know, we've been married seven and a half years. That has been a very hard lesson for me to learn. Because I'm somebody, and most men are just give it to me straight. And and it's been hard to try to, when my wife speaks something like that, for me to actually stop and be like, All right, Lord, what are you saying here? Oh yeah, what are you saying here?

SPEAKER_08 1:02:17

My wife, you know, her and I, we had a share of problems as well in that year, and um you know, and but now, you know, we've been able to to to come out on the other side better, and yeah, I think we have a really good relationship right now, and um, and I'm being more attentive. I'm I'm I'm listening more to her, you know, because I know that if God used these women to to kind of give me kind of like a warning of what was happening or something that was gonna happen. Yeah, you know, um, uh, I mean, and it's not like I brushed them off. I mean, I I thought about it, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:56

But you just didn't know where I didn't know what was gonna happen.

SPEAKER_08 1:03:00

I it's not like I brushed it off. I mean, I I talked to him about it. And like I said, you know, it's it's not that I was being um irresponsible with um with what God had given me. Yeah, it's not it's not that I was being I wasn't blowing money off, you know, I wasn't living a rich life, I wasn't, you know, um, I wasn't um, you know, it it it wasn't none of that. Yeah, I wasn't the prodigal son that that took everything and went off and spended right. You know, and that's what I couldn't understand at the moment. It's like, you know, I you know, I wasn't justifying myself, I'm not justifying myself at all. Um, but I do know that that that God wanted to do something with me.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:48

So, I mean, ultimately, what got you through this was your faith in the Lord that that was implanted in you in that from that day at VBS. Yes. That started by giving groceries. Now, my question is obviously this faith grew and grew and grew. And yet, as you highlighted a little bit ago, you know, that took you to youth work and everything. When did that phase take you to? Because you've talked about shop ownership, you've talked about that. I mean, we went through both the auto academy, Mr. McKinley, uh, great man, uh, a great program, uh, one of a kind. Um and so you were a bi-vocational pastor, uh, much like I was a bivocational for 11 years, and that's very hard. Um, but you had this dream for a shop owner. Uh when did that start? Was that high school without academy? So when did he I think I'm being called to be a pastor? When did that start? How did that start? Where did you go? Like what happened there? Because that's a whole other section there that obviously your faith started um because of love that Christ showed you through the Cavanaugh, through Evelyn Pastor, um, your family one by one got saved, came to know Christ, your prayer was answered to the glory of God. But where did this calling to shepherd people come from? I mean, I imagine a big influence was Phil, but uh well here's the thing.

SPEAKER_08 1:05:42

So um, you know, at at Phil's church at the Wampastore, you know, um I was uh maybe about ri maybe about sixteen, seventeen. Um that's when I I went to the uh Philip had been very sick by then. He came down with I I I believe it was probably prostate cancer. And he passed away in 2001.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:10

Wow.

SPEAKER_08 1:06:11

A year before I graduated high school.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:13

Wow.

SPEAKER_08 1:06:13

And so um uh around that time, I must have been a junior, junior high school. Junior high school, Sun Company High. I had a uh a need, an urgency to reach out to the youth.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:06:30

You know, so we I noticed that there was a lot of teens going to church with us, but that we really didn't have a program for teens. Yeah. Uh and so we had like, you know, uh grade level programs, but nothing for high schoolers. And so I went to the elders of the church at the time and I and I and I expressed my concern that that we needed somebody to step up and and and do something for the teens. And um since nobody stepped up, they all came to the conclusion since I filled the need. You should do it. You should do it. You know how that happens exactly, you know, and uh that's how a lot of us get thrown into ministry, right? Oh, you know, a lot of us get thrown into ministry. Well, you see the need, nobody can fulfill it. Well, obviously you have a calling, or God is telling you something.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:18

Well, and you know what though that goes right back to how all this started with Phil and Sue saw a need. Yes, and they went and so now you see a need.

SPEAKER_08 1:07:28

They could have gone and talked to their elders and they could have made a committee for the committee and uh you know take a month to make a decision.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:36

And now the elders you're going to they're seeing the same need as you, but now they're saying you you go do it, they're giving it back to you, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:07:45

And so I said, How but you guys know about the Bible, you guys are elders. What do I know? I'm 16. I I all I know is what I learned in Sunday classes, and all I know is whatever, you know. I'm not like, well, use that.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:01

And come on, Moses, let's go. You can you can speak what I speak, right?

SPEAKER_08 1:08:06

And and I said, Okay, yep, fine then, you know. So I I started gathering, you know, uh teens, uh, you know, uh dur uh after worship time. I did my own high school little group there, and I I didn't know what was I gonna teach, what was I gonna talk about, but all I did was the stories I knew. Noah, David and Goliath, you know, Moses, that kind of stuff. And I started doing those classic stories, you know, and and that's how I started with the teens. Well, little did I know that in a matter of a couple months we were gonna have a pretty large group to turn into, you know, a handful of teens to 30 plus. You know, and and then next thing I knew, I got my driver license, you know. I as soon as I hit 18, I got my driver license, and uh I was shuttling everywhere everywhere around. I would pick up teens, take them to church, and I believe at a certain time we probably got to about 60.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:02

So you matched the size of the adult service.

SPEAKER_08 1:09:07

Yeah, with uh teens and young adults.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:10

That's almost unheard of. But that and look at that. Simply, you saw a need, you filled it, and the Lord blessed it.

SPEAKER_08 1:09:19

Yeah, and the Lord blessed it, and we and we have to know, we have to realize also in ministry that not everything lasts forever under our care, under our watch.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:26

Not at all. We're stewards. Exactly. We've been talking about that.

SPEAKER_08 1:09:28

We're stewards, we plant the seed, yeah, right? And God's in charge of what's next for them. Yeah, we just plant the seed, we care for them for their for the season that God wants us to care for them, but eventually, eventually, they'll move on to something else. They'll they'll they'll do something else, and we have to be okay with that.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:45

So, how long did this go on for?

SPEAKER_08 1:09:47

Uh, this went on for about uh I got married in 2007. Okay. So uh let's say this started at church about 2001 with the youth ministry. And so 2007 I got married, so about about what almost about six years. Um, and when I got married to Crystal, we both then became youth leaders at our church as a couple. We did youth. Um, and that's when we had the biggest group till about 60.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:19

And this is still a way in pastor.

SPEAKER_08 1:10:21

There's still one pastor. Uh, but then Crystal and I felt that we were getting burned out a little bit. You know, it's like, hey, you know, we've been doing this for a while now, and we we hardly, you know, go to the church services, and and I was also doing worship, and and so we felt that we needed to to be part of a uh of a church that we can grow spiritually and get nurtured because we we thought we were doing everything that we could out of our own will and a good heart, but we needed training, we needed you know something else, and so that's when God opened doors to San Campeon Press. Ah, because they were gonna start Hispanic ministry.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:57

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_08 1:10:58

So we were at this time in Wumpaster moved to San Juan Capistrano, but most of the people that went there were from San Clomani.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:05

And so Yeah, was that when uh the church isn't there anymore but CVC? Exactly. I remember that. Yeah, I remember that. I remember that. My mom and I would serve in the children's during Wednesday night. I remember that totally. Okay, I remember that.

SPEAKER_08 1:11:17

Yeah, so we were at CVC there, and so so then uh the Hispanic ministry started in in San Clomani, and somehow how God works through Susan Kavanaugh. Oh, I love it through Susan Cavanaugh. Susan told me Juan, uh, because I told I talked to her a lot, so she knew my uneasiness and she knew what was happening. She's like, Juan, I recommend that you go talk to Pastor David Chavez at San Community Press. They're gonna start a Hispanic ministry. I believe that you and Crystal have you know a lot under your belt now to to to go away from Jumpastore, uh experience another church, a bigger church, you know, go outside for a while and experience something else. And so Crystal and I left at Wampastore, everything good, blessed. You know, we talked to the elders and everything, and um, we went over to San Community Press, and um Pastor David Chavez was gonna have his first service, um, and uh he didn't have worship, nothing planned out. I got to talk to him at a Starbucks right before his first Sunday service in Spanish. And so I said, hey look, I'm currently uh uh worship leader at my church. Um I can come and do worship with you because our services over there were at 5 p.m. and at San Community Press, they were gonna be like at 10 in the morning. So I can assist and I want to know what this is about. So the first Sunday service they had in Spanish, I was there leading worship.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:48

Now, had you gone to school or anything, or have you been had you been formally trained at this point? Or no, just your own study, everything, your own discipline, whole lay ministry. There you go.

SPEAKER_08 1:12:59

My own discipline, all studying, yeah, everything. Even musically, I I learned myself. And so um so I I offered to help with worship, so I started helping with worship the first time, and then eventually um uh we started getting more involved over here, and that's when we said, Hey, we gotta parse ways, we're gonna support this ministry, everything was fine. Well, the day we told the elders that I won't pastore, the elders said, Well, what are we gonna do with all the youth? We have nobody to think the youth. Well, I don't know, man. I mean, like, we'd rather them follow you. So Sanctimone Press overnight had a youth ministry.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_08 1:13:42

So I we didn't only went and assisted with worship, overnight after a couple weeks of assisting in worship at Sacramento Press, overnight we had a youth group of about for sure 30 plus.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:53

Wow. That's a good size group.

SPEAKER_08 1:13:55

And that's when we started Friday nights.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:57

I remember Friday nights.

SPEAKER_08 1:13:58

Friday nights at Sacramento.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:59

Yep, I remember that.

SPEAKER_08 1:14:00

And so Friday nights turned into Friday nights. So every Friday we had worship and word uh every single night. And Crystal and I were heading uh Friday nights. Uh and then um then the church offered me an internship, an official internship. Uh, and that's when I started getting training, and I actually got a um a commission lay pastor certificate at Whitford University. Wow. Um for commission lay pastor.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:29

Which university?

SPEAKER_08 1:14:30

Uh Whitworth up in Oh Whitworth, yeah, Washington. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I got a certificate. It took me a whole year to get it. Uh everything was online. That was the first year they did online uh certificates. Oh wow, because I couldn't go over there, so yeah, no, I did it online, and so I got my certificate, and then eventually um I got to be an elder at the the church. Before I was a pastor, I was already an elder, and I I represented the Hispanic ministry. Yeah, and so I advocated for the Hispanic ministry and whatnot. And so fast forward, I was still I'm still a mechanic at the time. I'm still working at a shop, Shake Tree Automotive.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:09

Shade Tree, uh Shade Tree.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:11

Yeah, oh what a great they they that was a classic Sinkle Money shop that has employed so many Sinkle Money graduates. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_08 1:15:23

Um, I did my uh internship there from the academy.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:27

Did you? Yeah, my uh I my cousin. Uh do you know Evan Cato?

SPEAKER_08 1:15:32

Yeah, he worked there. That's my cousin. Oh look at that. Yeah, look at that. Yeah, you had as much rule as I do, man. But yeah, so so uh in 2007 we got married. Um, and so we probably joined up with the church 08, I want to say officially. Oh my 08, and then we did Friday and I've and the youth have started doing the internship. Well, in um by the a year it's 2011, we're already there, and that's when uh session talks to me, and the pastor says that David Chavez is planning to move out. He's he's gonna leave the church, he's gonna pursue other things, and that they wanted me to um think about me possibly taking over the Hispanic ministry as a pastor.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:23

That's a that's a big move.

SPEAKER_08 1:16:25

And I'm like, wait, what? And um, and that's why I did the commission lay ministry certificate. Sure. So they had me do that since the year before. Just take it, even if you don't you even if you don't take the positions, just take it, it's good for you. What's that just did it and but I had made my wife a promise before we got married that I was never gonna be a pastor. Oh boy, because my wife, my my father-in-law is a pastor, so she grew up in it, she saw things she didn't like, she grew up in a pastoral family, and all the stress, the high expectations, the the whole thing. So she said to me when we when we before when I asked her to marry me, she said to me, just promised me one thing that you'll never be a pastor. And at the time I didn't want to be a pastor because I knew all the heartaches that Philip went through. I knew like all the So talk about that.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:22

Let's let's let's let's stay here for a minute because so many so many people they go into pastoral ministry because they see the the pastor on stage, he's preaching, the lights, you know, all that type of stuff. What do you mean by heartaches and stress? What do you mean by that? What what what are the heartaches and stress of ministry that these that the those that are listening should look out for? What do you mean by that?

SPEAKER_08 1:17:57

Here's the thing the the I have the blessing of being part of growing up in a small independent church, yeah, and then work at uh San Camini Press, which is huge. Presbytery, huge church, right? So so I got to live both. Yeah. Uh but the cool thing about growing up in a small independent church is that you didn't have the luxury of having a paid staff, right? Right. So you didn't have a big budget, right? Everything was volunteered, and then the the pastor Philip, he didn't really make, you know, uh uh uh I would say a fair wage, you know. It was sure it was more than anything, probably more like love offerings, you know. Yeah, as a stipend. Exactly, because he he did all the he had a small office in San Clemente that assisted in something. He had something going on, but but they lived very humble lives.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:50

Sure.

SPEAKER_08 1:18:50

And so, you know, Philip was the first one to set up the chairs. He was the first one, you know, to pick up people, give rides. He was the first one, he led by example. Yeah, he was the first one, and he was the last one.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:04

Yep.

SPEAKER_08 1:19:05

He was the first one to set up tables and chairs, the last one to eat.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:09

Yep.

SPEAKER_08 1:19:09

You know, so he shared, he lived by example of those that want to be the first ones shall be the last ones. You know, and the ones that are the first will be the last. Yep. You know, so he led by example. So I I always noticed that, you know, there's a lot of times that you could tell that he wanted to cry, that he was stressed, you know, that that it was very tough to do this. Uh, you know, a lot of times we forget that, you know, a lot of the churchgoers that are not pastors or they don't serve at a at a leadership capacity, we don't have to go to church every Sunday.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:19:49

I'm mad with my wife today. Well, I won't go to church. I'm gonna go on vacation. I s I go on vacation. I don't want to go on Super Bowl Sunday, I don't go on Super Bowl Sunday. Hey, the World Cup is on for soccer, yeah. I'm not gonna go, right? See, all of us that attend church, we have the luxury. If I don't feel like going today, I'm not gonna go. Nothing happens.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:20:14

Yeah, but when you're the pastor, when you're the preacher, you don't have the luxury. See, Pastor Philip, he had his own struggles at home.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:24

Sure. He's human.

SPEAKER_08 1:20:26

Right? He was human, but yet he showed up every Sunday. Even when he was diagnosed with cancer, carrying the leukemia little machine over here, he still got up in the pulpit and preached. Because there was nobody else that could do it. There was other men that he trained and he spent a lot of time with. But Philip led by example, so in a small church setting, you you have to do a lot of you know, uh you have to be a man of many skills.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:21:00

You just have to. Versus in in the other in a larger church settings, you have a paid staff that that really you can devote most of your time to preparing the preachings, the series, the sermons, and that kind of stuff, which is cool. Yeah. And I'm happy for you if you're able to do that. That's such a big blessing.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:18

Sure.

SPEAKER_08 1:21:19

But what I also got to experience in a bigger, larger church setting is that a lot of times it's easy for us to forget or lose the the touch of the community, of the people, the heart.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:32

It's easier to get in a bubble.

SPEAKER_08 1:21:33

Yes, yeah, you're in a secure bubble. Yeah. Because you may have um, you know, financial security. You may have, you know, this bubble that is good, which is fine, you know, there's nothing wrong by it, uh, as long as your heart is in it, as long as you don't lose sight, as long as you're not blindsided by the commodities and then and the and the and the materialistic things, you know. So um you have to eventually you get to a point where you you gotta decide priority of your convictions, your moral values over this bubble.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:22:17

You know, and I think for a lot of us, it's really hard to get out of that bubble once once we're in that bubble. For example, you know, when when when I I promised my wife I wasn't gonna be a pastor. Yeah, it was because I knew how much Phil suffered.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:37

Yeah, and and I mean, even scripture in the book of James, it talks about that teachers are gonna be judged more severely. Yes. I mean, I I I I definitely um understand, and I that's how I was at first was I don't want anything to do with that. Right. And and and so when they asked you how's that conversation? How did that go? Well spoiler alert, you did take you did take it, but I mean how how did that go?

SPEAKER_08 1:23:11

Um well, so when they told me that, um I I was freaked out because I'm like, what am I gonna tell my wife?

SPEAKER_03 1:23:21

Right, yeah. That was the first thought. Yes.

SPEAKER_08 1:23:24

Second thought was I never wanted this.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:27

Ooh.

SPEAKER_08 1:23:28

I never seeked for it.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:29

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:23:31

I I never never in my life it even crossed my mind that I wanted to be a pastor one day. Uh I felt that I didn't have the qualifications, quote unquote qualifications. I felt that I I I didn't have the right set of skills to to be a pastor. And so that in itself kind of like ah, it's not gonna happen. But when I was approached and and and and asked more than once, uh, you know, pray about this. This is something we're considering. Pray. Um then I told my wife eventually, I say, Hey Han, I gotta talk to you. Um there's a possibility that, you know, well the church wants to offer me a pastoral position for the Hispanic ministry after Pastor David leaves. Pastor Chavez and Crystal gave me the look right away.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:27

I know the look.

SPEAKER_08 1:24:29

And so she said, uh you promised me. And I said, I know. I said, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know anymore. You know, and so we wrestled with this for about probably six months.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:50

Sure.

SPEAKER_08 1:24:51

Because that's when I started doing the the you know, the lay ministry certificate and that kind of stuff, and and I had about almost a whole year to make my mind up. And so eventually I was still wrestling with it, and and ultimately my wife eventually said to me that you know, hon, even though I don't want to go through this again, even though I don't want to have to do nothing with a pastoral family because the expectation, the judgment, you know, all this kind of stuff. He's like, but if this is something that you feel that God is leading you to, I will support you. You know, and and so she did. She supported me, I guess or will. Yeah, she did, and I'm grateful for that. Um because taking a pastoral position or that calling you can't force it.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:53

Nope, and those that do cause damage.

SPEAKER_08 1:25:56

Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:25:57

And you don't choose it either. No, it chooses you.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:00

You you shouldn't if if people understood the work that it really is, you don't choose that. You wouldn't want to do that. There are other pursuits in life that will pay you more or you'll get more recognition or whatnot, but pastoral work, so much of it is thankless. And there is a you meant you've mentioned it, there is an expectation of perfection that can be crippling if you don't know how to handle it.

SPEAKER_08 1:26:42

It you know, statistically speaking, there's more pastors than we think that have depression.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:26:53

There's more pastors, you know, facing divorce.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:27:01

There's more pastors that are going right now through, you know, uh emotional mind, you know, issues um that seem unreal and I had never had to deal with emotional um what do you call it? Um emotional health. I never had to deal with mind health until twenty twenty four. And because of that now I can understand people that are going through mental health issues.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:52

Yeah, you've you've experienced it.

SPEAKER_08 1:27:54

I've experienced it firsthand.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:56

But before when you were I would say just get a job.

SPEAKER_08 1:28:00

have too much time in your hands right right it's easy for us to say that right but now it's like wait wait hold on here I had a job I was busy I was doing ministry I and I still it still happened to me yep yep you know and it's one of those things where where we we we like to see the pastor as being the strong one you're right the the the the the leading the pack protecting the pack and the whole thing and and and and it's true but not in the way that we expect it not in the way that our society is expecting us to expect it.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:39

Well and it's it's even it's not biblical we we we when we read the New Testament well let's just put it out there Moses didn't even like the Moses model right uh he didn't even like it um and when we read the New Testament we see when Paul would go plant churches not once did it says he went and go he planted a senior pastor. Right right it says he went and established elders plural because of the weight that we're talking about it's not meant for one mortal man right it's meant for the God man it's not meant for us and the Lord in his wisdom knows that knew that and that's why Paul knew that as well he went and established a group of faithful men to collectively serve the church because it can't be on one man it's not feasible for it to be on one man.

SPEAKER_08 1:29:48

You you need a community you need it you need a community around that man because you know we forget we think that if we come a pastor we're in a pastor that we're untouchable. Yeah a lot of times we think that you know yeah that we had it made you know we figure it out but the truth of the matter is that we are human we're not exempt yeah from temptation we're not exempt from everything else that happens in this world yeah you know and to put the high expectation on one person that is his job to make me feel good on a Sunday morning is see I tithe and you better you better deliver. Yeah no that's not how this works right and unfortunately you see a lot of that as kind of expectations on a big church setting sure large setting you st you still will see it even in small churches yeah you know but you know it it is important to know that like Timothy right I mean under Paul's leadership right you know it's is one of those things where I mean I feel for that guy you know I feel like him a lot of times sure because when I went into the when I when I when I finally took this pastoral position at the church is the same year I opened the shop that's a lot it's a lot I opened the shop in o in November of 2012 and I took the pastoral position I believe in June of 2012 so opening a new business oh and then I had Gianna still a baby yeah so I was pretty newly wet as well I only had been married since 2007 okay you know so it had a lot of things going on and so everything happened so fast and and I got thrown into it well I mean at least I thought but now I know that God was calling me to something that I didn't even understand myself I didn't comprehend myself because I knew I didn't felt up to the task I didn't feel like I said before I didn't have the qualifications or the training you know I I said to myself I'm not gonna do a good service to these people I'm gonna do a disservice to the people you know because I didn't feel that I was qualified in many areas but God is the one that weighs the heart. Sure and scripture tells us that wherever your treasure's at that's where your heart's at sure you know and I can tell you something that then money has never been my God has never uh any financial proceeds to get out of ministry has never and God knows that has never been my thing. In fact I you know my financial life revolves around my shop right that's that's that's your trade that's my trade that's that's that's that's that's how I pay my bills that's how I get through life right so w what I mean what what is that like being because so many people don't experience this being a bivocational pastor like this what is that like I mean what is it like leading a church right but then also running a business both in themselves as we've talked about how carry their own stressors how what is it like and a family man what is that like what does I mean yeah it's it's it reminds me of a little bit of you know the primitive church you know uh Paul you know made tenths made tenths you know he didn't want to be a burden he said hey I you know uh I don't want to be called you know that um I don't want you guys to look at me like I'm living out of this I'm making a living out of this you know was there ever temptation for you to go into full-time ministry like full-time paid ministry um yes for a moment there but I also see how God protected me sure uh well in i in in in in in my specific you know situation so uh right around the time where I accepted the calling you know and I said okay let's do this um uh the elders were preparing a comp plan okay for my services you know for for being a pastor um and because there were hope well they wanted me to be full time that that was the thing full time and and so they kind of told me okay we're gonna hire you full time we'll we'll we'll make sure to to pay you and that kind of stuff you know and we'll be part of staff full time and I was looking forward to it because in a way I was like ah man it'd be nice to take a break from wrenching sure from wrenching and going full ministry and that'd be a nice change you know and but for me I was looking more at a comfort level yeah right it'll be more comfortable right I can focus just on one thing you know I'm not in a hot shop I don't have to worry about turning hours yeah yeah yeah I'm making my own paycheck uh you know I can actually you know uh be supported financially for doing something that is good something that I think is gonna be good and so little did I know that the church was already having financial struggles so thank god yeah that you opened your shop right so in fact I do thank uh the senior pastor of the time Pastor Todd Bolsinger um I believe he's uh uh an instructor now at um Fuller Fuller yeah sure um todd a great man beautiful man I I thank him for the opportunity but he did say something to me that I is I still cannot forget in other words they didn't really know how to tell me that they couldn't afford it they couldn't afford me to bring me on staff all time sure so I think they were trying to figure out how to tell me how to let you down gently exactly and so we went out to lunch and we were talking he asked me you know what are your plans what are your thoughts you know what do you expect as far as pay goes and that kind of stuff and little did he know that the business opportunity had already had stepped into my court so a couple weeks before I took on the position or the before I said yes um the shop came up again my wife another woman my wife said to me because I was having some troubles at the shop where I worked at Han why don't you open your own shop it takes money I don't have any money just open your own shop I said I can't do that we have a home we have to pay for things just open your shop I'm like whatever I brushed it off the Lord speaking she sends me an email check this out shop release I was like that's a beautiful shop but I can't afford no way one day after work she drove me there she parked outside the shop and she took the keys away and she wouldn't move till I call I called the landlord and one thing went to another took to another and eventually you know that wasn't the play that wasn't it's was plain so when I met when we went out to lunch with the pastor and we're gonna talk about my pay you know I already had the shop kind of like should I do this should I not and so I told him flat out because I noticed that he was a little bit he didn't know how to tell me but I can read him and I said Todd I said I get it don't worry about it I understand but let me tell you something this business opportunity just came up what do you mean I always wanted to own my own garage my own shop and and I'm playing with it right now and I think it's gonna happen so either I come and work full time with you guys and not take the shop opportunity or allow me to open my shop and I can do ministry as I go I can still pastor but as I go it could be a mix of full time part-time whatever it looks like because I do ministry already anyway I wasn't doing youth I was already doing worship yeah in fact I was already preaching sermons yeah because the David Chavez had already trained me and was pushing me pushing me to be in the pulpit so uh I mean I was already doing pastoral work without the title and so um so Pastor Todd said to me this Juan it's like I'd rather you open your shop because you will not depend on a church like I do.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:25

Yeah yeah he is funny you saw the comfortability and even an aspect of freedom being full time as a pastor and he saw the exact opposite exactly which is fascinating and and in my respects for Todd I mean he says has his doctorate he's a very smart man very good man but the fact that he told me that yeah that's fascinating the fact that he told me this is all I know how to do yeah yeah in another word he told me that I don't want to be stuck but that's what he knows how to do exactly so he gave me the green light and the blessing that I think you should start your shop.

SPEAKER_08 1:40:14

He gave you a gift yes and he said not only that but we're gonna tell everybody at church that you're open that's it and so all my customers first time customers work from the church. It's awesome and he and he even took me on on the morning services and English services and he even you know we we did interviews and kind of we preached together once in a while and he threw it out there oh by the way Juan is opening his shop and you guys you know support him and that kind of stuff so so so that was very cool. So that so so that's how we ended up working that the church was struggling financially and I was okay with that but but I was gonna start my shop at the same time. Yeah and so they were okay with that. So then uh we talked to the congregation eventually once I started doing it and said hey look Juan is really part-time uh you know he's doing it at a good heart own will uh he's not being paid for it and I wasn't so then I started the shop and and I still did ministry and so not till the later part of it maybe the last two years um the church started paying me a little bit uh to help out but but uh almost like a part-time but but but but not really I mean uh I wouldn't be able to survive yeah that and but that was helping um but obviously the financial struggles of the church uh they never really got fixed and I mean we've had this discussion we were talking about it beforehand um you you were there for uh you said about 12 years and part of that financial struggle there was some back and forth and much like how you experienced with youth of not having a break right you and I imagine Crystal felt this as well um felt that same thing again of hey I haven't had a break there wasn't really uh what was being told to you uh there wasn't resources to have you know an assistant or anything like that um which ultimately led you to step away yeah so so so uh you know those 12 years in ministry there at a pastoral level you know there they were probably one of the toughest years of my life sure as far as caring for people ministering um you know uh doing funeral services baptisms right the whole thing right and and uh even through covet I did uh man uh I did so many funerals you know and that kind of stuff and and so obviously I got to experience firsthand you know uh by trial and error you know the ministry part of it um but one of the toughest things for me was that I was very young as well you know I was only 20 years 28 years old and so uh I was the youngest pastor and staff on pay staff um and it was really hard for a lot of our congregants to take a sermon from a very young guy sure what are you gonna teach me right type attitude type thing so through all those years uh then you know we had Julian our son as well so that being said for the first years of Gianna's life I wasn't really there because I was at the shop and at the church for my son's life Julian the same thing I wasn't really there because I was doing everything else and I wasn't really there for my wife either and I think that was what that was what my wife was threading because she she had seen that growing up right because dad and mom were always doing ministry and so all uh and so at some point it came to a head oh yeah at some point it came to a head where I I was trying to keep my wife and my home happy I was trying to keep the church happy I was trying to get my business you know going so I was trying to I was wearing all these hats I was trying to uh satisfy you know the needs um but little did I little was I aware of that I was not taking care of myself and I wasn't taking care of my wife and my kids emotionally I wasn't there which is we say it all the time and we almost shrug it off it it just kind of comes out but it's it's the truth they are our first ministry correct and and that's the thing you know that that a lot of times we forget that you know we can't be a lamp unto the world and be darkness of our household ooh that's good I'm gonna steal that for a sermon one day that's good one dude you know what can't we we if we want to the Bible says it right you want to win the world but that but you lose your life yeah you know what what good did that do you know yeah you can be a great preacher you can be a uh inspirational preacher a good presenter you can have sermons spot on dead on but let me ask you can you sleep at night yep and you couldn't you couldn't you know and and the thing is that you know I I knew my my wife wasn't happy I knew there were struggles and you know and then I had to go and visit a couple that were struggling yeah when I myself needed somebody to hear me out right so all these things were happening so then I started asking for help and resources and you know at church and staff and session meetings and everything and it seemed like there wasn't just enough money and resources to go around you know so for a long time I I I was okay with that okay well we don't have any money you gotta deal with it but then I started noticing that wait a minute we don't have money but yet we're hiring other positions we don't have money but yet we have money for all these other things everybody guesses take a sabbatical I don't everybody's getting their health insurance paid I'm not everybody can go to a week long retreat being paid I have to take time out of my shop to go to that retreat that I'm not being paid. Yeah so the struggles the financial burden the emotional burden and and and and hear me out to everybody's listening I never did it for the money.

SPEAKER_03 1:47:06

Yeah you know and and I still don't do it for the money but when you are a husband and father charged with caring for them yes not just financially but as you mentioned and as we see it play out in our society the role of a father in the home that's present. Yeah yeah because I mean I was there but I wasn't right you know and so at some point not that you do it for money at all however you need to care for your family and we live in a world where it's a fallen world it's the one that we have it we need finances to care for our families.

SPEAKER_08 1:47:55

We do and you know what and and the other thing too is you know be talking about being good stewards right yeah okay at churches we tithe we give offerings we we supported the staff we supported the mission and we we're from believers in that and I'm okay with that obviously it's biblical but here's the thing we forget one thing that all that money that's coming into church tithing offers whatever might have you is hard earned money with sweat. That's right that's right from somebody that's right and what am I gonna do with that money with those resources that's a big responsibility.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:29

It is so you know you stepped so you correct me if I'm wrong um you officially stepped away you know all as we're talking about this right it eventually came to a head and and ultimately you made the good biblical decision of choosing your family choosing to be present with your family um choosing peace um which unfortunately the church should be but often for pastors isn't right um and you chose your family which is probably already has paid you dividends if not it will yes um it has and so we're nearing the end of our time here when you you shared some pretty deep things uh about ministry about humble beginnings about just own personal struggles and I thank you because for those that are listening guys this is this is real this is happening this is raw and know that this is not an isolated incident that right you have no clue what your pastor is going through behind the scenes you have no clue and so Juan um one last question for those that are listening for those that are aspiring to that role that um that feel that calling on their lives Um, that want to serve not for the money but for the joy of the Lord.

SPEAKER_08 1:50:04

Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:50:07

What are a couple pieces of advice or guidance that you could give them that um now looking back you wish you would have had?

SPEAKER_08 1:50:19

So looking back, um would I wish I would have had some kind of seminary or different credentials under my belt? Not really on that side, sure, because there's nothing like learning on the street, there's nothing like that's very true. There's nothing like learning you know on the go. Yeah. Um, but it is important, obviously, to to to have you know the calling.

SPEAKER_00 1:50:51

Yes.

SPEAKER_08 1:50:52

Um, I would say, um, if I had to change anything, I would say at a pastoral level, once I got to that position and was able to do that, uh I would say that it is really important for you to have um if you if you are gonna go full-time into ministry or take that position, that you do have a community, especially of people within the church, to support you and pray for you and continuously, you know, be looking out for you. You need that support that people would say, What do you need? Yeah, you seem tired, do you need a break? You know, how are you doing? You know, um how are you doing, you know, are you able to to make bills? Are you able to pay your rent? Are you able to live, you know, you know, for a for a um for a fair day's work wages, right? I mean, are you are you are you okay? Yeah, you know, and also that the community, that the church will embrace you and do find that the that time for you to step away to care for your needs, for your family's needs, not for them to wait till you're burned out. Yeah, you know, I would say that that would I that would be very important that if I would go back, I would have made those questions in front.

SPEAKER_00 1:52:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:52:19

So by me doing this, you know, what kind of um what what kind of you know structure is there to care for me and my family in our time of need?

SPEAKER_00 1:52:36

Yeah, I like that.

SPEAKER_08 1:52:39

You know, what is there in place that when I'm feeling burned out that when I need to care for my family, you know, is that in place? And that's probably more in a larger church setting.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:53

Sure.

SPEAKER_08 1:52:54

But if you go on a smaller church church setting, um that's probably gonna be gonna be harder.

SPEAKER_03 1:53:01

But not impossible.

SPEAKER_08 1:53:03

But not impossible. I would say in a smaller church setting, you really have to have a good relationship, a friendship relationship with key people in the church.

SPEAKER_00 1:53:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:53:15

That that you would regularly share meals together, that you will regularly go out together, and that you can share those struggles with one another. Uh, I think that's gonna be the biggest difference. Um, but if I could recommend something for those young married couples, yes, there's a lot of times, you know, we think that you know you're a solo, you're gonna do this, but a lot of times you're already married. Yeah, you know, you're barely having kids. I would say that it's okay to wait for the right season. If you have the calling, awesome, great. Keep it there, keep it going. You can pasture without the title, you can pasture without the you know blessing of the dominant of a denomination, right? You don't have to wait for that. Biblically, if you have the Spirit of God in you, right? If there's water, what prohibits you from baptizing somebody? Sure. Right? Sure. So, in that sense, you know, it's okay to not be pressured into a pastoral position if the season in life you're at is not the right time. Yes, it's okay to say no, it doesn't mean that you're saying no forever, but like Paul said, if you want to serve the Lord all in, don't get married.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:42

Yep, great.

SPEAKER_08 1:54:43

Okay, so if you haven't gotten married and you're gonna go into this all in, okay, then you might not want to get married right now. Yeah, and go all in and maybe get married later.

SPEAKER_00 1:54:54

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_08 1:54:56

But if you are married or you're thinking of getting married, just make sure that your first priority it is your household, your wife, and your kids. That is gonna be your most important ministry. Second to that is gonna be your ministry under walls, four walls, and a roof.

SPEAKER_00 1:55:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:55:18

Now the true church ministry is 24-7. Yes, because our bodies are the temples of the Holy Spirit. So you gotta make sure to define that your pastoral calling is not gonna be defined solely on a position. It has to be part of your life, it's a style of life, it has to be embedded on your everyday life so that when you do take that calling, you're already doing it.

SPEAKER_00 1:55:59

Yep.

SPEAKER_08 1:56:00

And if you're already doing it, then the transition is gonna be a lot easier.

SPEAKER_03 1:56:07

Juan, I can just tell by your tone and the expression on your face, everything you're saying is bathed in experience. Um, and there is wisdom in everything you're saying. Juan, I I can't thank you enough for joining us for this episode. Thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule um to be here and sharing all this. I know it's a blessing, and for those that are listening, please take heed uh to this advice, to this story. And I think one thing that's been a consistent theme throughout the episodes has been the need for community. Yes. But then the other one that's come up a few times is the ministry of presence, uh, which you're talking about being with the community, but then also how you came to the Lord by simply a knock on the door, which was a ministry of presence. Right. And so don't negate that, those that are listening, do not negate that the ministry of presence cannot do wondrous things in the name of the Lord. It can. Uh, people just need to know that you are there. And um, it took um what that ministry of presence did for for you, Juan, was great things, and for your family did great things and continues to do great things. And so thank you for being here. I appreciate you, appreciate the ministry that you've had. I appreciate your shop, RSC Automotive. And um, for those that are listening, thank you again.