Jake Saxton “Be who Christ called you to be”

In this episode I sit down with Jake Saxton. He is the co-lead Pastor of Cornerstone Community Church in San Clemente. 

In our time together he reflects on his home life in Yorba Linda, college life at Biola where he met his wife, and Pastoral Journey in San Clemente. A journey that has taken many different turns that he definitely did not expect. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:32

Alright, well, thank you for tuning back in to Aspire Ministries Podcast. This is Morgan, your host, and today I have the pleasure of having Pastor Jake Saxton with us. How are you doing, Jake?

SPEAKER_03 0:44

Hey Morgan, thanks for having me, man, man. I'm doing good. Excited to be on the podcast today.

SPEAKER_00 0:49

Yeah. Thanks for carving out some time with us. Uh, so um, where are you serving and in what capacity?

SPEAKER_03 0:55

Yeah, so I'm serving at Cornerstone Community Church in San Clemeni, and I serve as a full-time co-pastor alongside my uh fellow lead pastor Winston Wardwell.

SPEAKER_00 1:05

So we've had him on. Yeah, it was a great discussion that we had.

SPEAKER_03 1:10

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 1:10

Um well, let's dive into some stuff. Uh, because you've had a pretty uh I would say fast trajectory in your pastoral ministry, and so I'm excited to hear this. Um obviously I was there for some of it, right? Um been able to witness some from afar, um, but would love to hear from your own um point of view and perspective and from just your own eyes how things have gone and where you've come from.

SPEAKER_03 1:40

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 1:41

Uh so home life. What was home life like? Was Jesus present? Did you grow up in a believer's home? What was that like?

SPEAKER_03 1:51

Yeah, um, I have been absolutely blessed to have grown up in a Christian household. Uh both my parents were saved at an early age, um, and both were raised in Christian households, and so uh my grandparents raised them in in Bible-believing homes, uh, who were involved in the local church. And so I grew up with that type of environment and that sort of a uh expectation for our family that we would uh go to church every Sunday, that we would be involved in whatever the youth group offered. And so yeah, I was very involved, I could say, in any of the camps, um, small groups. We had midweek small groups at the church I grew up in. And um, yeah, I was very blessed to be able to have that community from a young age. And uh, we can get into it in just a little bit, um, some of the struggles that came with that. But yeah, I would say for the most part, I was I was very blessed alongside my brother who's two years younger to um have grown up in that environment, uh, in an environment that loved Christ. And uh the household was was always centered upon his word in some way. Um, and so yeah, that was kind of the kind of a little summary, I guess, of of what I grew up in.

SPEAKER_00 3:08

So you mentioned you have a younger brother. Do you have any other siblings?

SPEAKER_03 3:11

No, just the younger brother, uh Connor. He's uh two years younger than me. So okay. And uh still a believer? Yeah, he is a believer. Uh he uh works in the same type of industry as my dad. My dad is actually a pool maintenance uh and supply worker, so wow. Grew up cleaning swimming pools. And so from the age of, gosh, I was probably underage. I was probably around uh 10 or 11, is when I had my first job. And that would be helping dad cleaning pools. And I mean, you can't complain in the summer wearing your sandals and board shorts, and that's your uh that's your attire for work.

SPEAKER_00 3:46

So and here in Orange County, I imagine that is a wonderful job to have. There is a need there.

SPEAKER_03 3:52

Absolutely blessed. And so my dad has done that for the past 30 years or so. Um, so yeah, from a young age, my brother and I helped him uh with that. And then by the time we turned 16 each, we got our own pools to uh look after. And so your own route. Yep, and we had our license. It was like, all right, boys, here are uh 10 to 12 pools for the day and meet me back at home at the end of your shift. And so um that was fun. It was it was challenging because it taught me a lot of responsibility from an early age of if I'm not getting the task done, uh, someone will uh get back to my dad and let him know that things weren't done correctly. And so um sometimes you get a few phone calls from uh from his clients of like, hey, then there's still some leaves in the pool, or you know, the filter wasn't thoroughly cleaned, and so that would come back to my brother and I every now and then. But would he make you go back that night? Yeah, go deal with it. Oh yeah, oh yeah. Oh good dad. Personally call the clients and apologize, and so it was good. It was good. So sounds like a wonderful dad. Yeah, he taught us a lot about hard work from a young age, uh, I would say, and uh my brother is still um working in the family business, but also branching out and uh forming some of his own clients as well. And I know his goal is to eventually uh have his own pool business too. So cool. Um yeah, so that's what he's up to. But yeah, all right, yeah. Um, and where did you grow up? So I grew up not far from here, so just more North Orange County in uh Yarbalinda, California. So maybe about an hour from where we are right now. Sure. Yeah. Um yeah, wonderful uh childhood, grew up with lots of friends there. There was a lot of things to do as a kid, and so yeah, grew up there.

SPEAKER_00 5:25

And so uh church wise, did you grow up Cornerstone's a small little community church? Um, did you grow up in similar size? What type of church did you grow up in?

SPEAKER_03 5:34

Yeah, far from it. So I uh I actually grew up in what we would call the megaculture or mega church culture world. Um so pretty much all of my church attending experience uh as a young kid and into my earlier adult years was in the form of the megachurch culture. Um so grew up at a uh church in your Belinda, your Belinda Friends Church. Um and so I was basically born in the church from uh from the day of being in diapers. I was somehow involved in uh whatever ministry was offered from from that early of an age. And so yeah, we uh we started attending uh Your Belinda Friends when I was just a newborn, and then um were there all through, I'd say up until I believe it was my junior or senior year of high school, and then my parents ended up transitioning over to another megachurch in town, uh Eastside uh Christian church in Anaheim. Yes, um, and so that's where my parents have been uh for gosh the past 10 years, and uh they recently just made another church transition, and so they're actually in a in a Calvary chapel in uh in Anaheim, which is another large church, but uh they're uh they're really enjoying their time there.

SPEAKER_00 6:49

So yeah. So um when did you make obviously we're born into Christian households, and you know, we're following our parents through their faith, right? We're we're just falling to church, in-home Bible studies, prayers, all that type of stuff. But when did you make faith your own? When did Jesus actually become your savior?

SPEAKER_03 7:15

Yeah, that's a that's a great question. Um so yeah, a lot of my childhood was in some ways going through the motions of uh going to church every Sunday, um, doing the things that were in some ways expected of me, um, right? Showing up to youth group, making friends, going into camp, being on my best behavior, wearing my Sunday best, you know, that's that was kind of, and I say in a positive way, ingrained into my brother and I from an early age. And so I I praise God for that. Um, but yeah, a lot of it was just we're doing what mom and dad want us to do. Um, though we obviously enjoyed the community and all of that. But um, when I was in kindergarten, I was at a VBS and I had someone ask me if I wanted to ask Jesus into my heart. And so um classic, exactly. Um kind of that that VBS moment. Yeah. And so so I I recited a prayer and I asked Jesus into my heart when I was uh five or six years old. Don't think I knew what I was doing, truthfully. Uh I just uh assumed that whoever was leading me through that prayer was trustworthy and that they understood what they were asking me to do. And and I responded in some way uh to that by reciting that prayer. But um, I'll be honest, I I I don't believe in that moment I was truly converted. Um I think we could probably assume that maybe. Um but as time went on, I was starting to understand more and more about the consequences of sin, uh, uh, of actually what uh living a life of sin actually produces, not only in my own heart, but how it affects the people around me. And so it really wasn't until I believe it was fourth or fifth grade, I was at a summer camp, uh Sugar Pine uh summer camp, yeah, where um we had a it they called it a decision night, and it was one of the last nights of camp when uh when the uh camp speaker would stay a little bit after, and and any um student who felt uh called to respond to the gospel and and uh and and talk more about that could stay after. And and I remember following the the speaker's message and the night of worship and singing with my brothers and sisters in the Lord, I I just came to tears that night and understood actually my need for um a savior, for something far greater than myself, that I I that this is not all that there is in this life. And and I believe the Lord captured my heart at a young age of either those 10 or 11 years old at that time to even if it was just a very basic understanding of that, it was an understanding nonetheless to know okay, there is hope for me, and it's found in one person, that's Jesus Christ. And so, um, yeah, it was that summer of forgetting the year, but I was probably around 10 or 11 when I I trusted in Christ for the forgiveness of my sins. And so um, yeah, and obviously life wasn't rosy after that, right? I uh you get back down the mountain and then reality hits and you go back to school. And my brother and I grew up in uh public schools, and so uh nothing wrong with that whatsoever, but we were uh usually exposed to uh a lot of things that we see in the public school uh system. And so um, yeah, I got into uh making some poor decisions uh pretty early on in middle school and getting into high school, and uh though I um believed I was truly saved and that I trusted in Christ for the forgiveness of my sins, I in a lot of ways was maybe abusing some of that grace that God had gifted me with and and graciously g uh give me. And so um in what in what way? Yeah, I would say uh just a lot of double lifestyle living of going to church on Sundays with mom and dad and my brother and doing the youth group thing, going to camps, doing all the things I should do. And then Monday morning comes around and you know I I I have a foul mouth with my friends and talking about uh girls in school in an appropriate way and getting into relationships that weren't healthy for me. And and then as time went on, that kind of turned into a life of partying and um getting into some underage drinking and smoking and and just knowing what what what saddens me is knowing in the midst of all that that I was saved and that Christ was my savior, I I still in some way felt like I needed more time to actually uh enjoy the things that my flesh wanted. And so um that was my middle school and high school years, uh, most definitely, while at the same time still attending church every single Sunday, right? Still giving the the quote unquote perfect youth group answer that I believe my leaders wanted to hear from me, sure while at the same time living this kind of double life. Um and so that was that was a lot of my childhood for sure.

SPEAKER_00 12:04

So then as you're you know going through high school, obviously for any high schooler the question is all right, so what are you gonna do after high school? Right? What college are you going to? Uh what uh you know what pursuit are you gonna have?

SPEAKER_01 12:18

Right.

SPEAKER_00 12:19

And so um I know the answer to this, but uh obviously you were probably asked those questions. What was your answer at that point? Living like that, right? What what was your answer at the time? Did things change? Where where did you see your life heading?

SPEAKER_03 12:39

Yeah, so uh long story short, I actually had no desire whatsoever to ever be a pastor. Um never at all. Um so, in the context of the church I grew up in, um during the four years that I was in the high school ministry, uh, we went through five different youth pastors. And so that's a lot. It was a lot, and and it was really hard, and again, this is in kind of a larger church context, and so um you don't necessarily have the the one-on-one uh personal relationship with your high school pastor that maybe you would in a smaller church context, but it was really hard to get to know um those who were entrusted to care for me as a high school student, and so um there was almost this expectation each year that would come around that we would get a new high school pastor. Like, okay, who's the new pastor this year? And then it was junior who's the night the new high school pastor this year.

SPEAKER_00 13:32

How do you think that impacted you?

SPEAKER_03 13:34

Well, I I think truthfully, I I think it in a lot of ways felt like whoever was in that role didn't really care to really pour into me um or you know, my fellow high school friends, that it was just maybe just a job for them. Um, and again at the time, and I still don't even know to this day the reasons for all the transitions. Sure. Um, maybe that's a good thing. Um but at the time it it just felt like, man, no one really wants to stick around here. Um, and so that kind of planted uh an interesting seed in me of of okay, there's something um not stable about youth ministry, or there's something very transitional about youth ministry that I experienced from a really young age, of like, okay, people kind of come and go very quickly, but no one really sticks around enough to really see the fruit that God's doing in the ministry. And so, yeah, I would say it definitely affected me um in high school. And I even remember um there were a handful of Sundays throughout each year that I would um almost beg my parents to not have me go to the high school group that I wanted to sit in quote unquote big church with them um because I knew it would be the same pastor preaching because I just wanted consistency at that time. I just wanted to hear the same shepherd preach to me, you know, um, rather than oh, maybe it's someone new today. Who knows? And so, yeah, those were a lot of the thoughts that were going through my mind um during that time in high school. And so, so back to your question, I I had no desire to be a pastor um following high school or pursue ministry by any means. Um, I was actually interested in photography. I was interested in writing. I've always enjoyed writing uh from a young age, and so I kind of wanted to put those two together and do some sense of journalism, photojournalism, um, create stories and capture them through uh picture taking. And so that was something I um pursued a little bit, not not enough to really build any sort of credibility for myself or any sort of real, you know, vocation one day and that, but um enough to uh think, okay, maybe this is where God is calling me to uh to pursue as a job. And so um that was really what I was considering all through junior and senior year of uh high school. However, during that time, I was still going to youth group, I was still going to our midweek Bible studies, and I had a small group leader, his name was Trevor, and this guy had a pretty painted past. Um he was not uh there was nothing shiny about Trevor. He had uh he had lived a life before Christ, uh, one that was uh full of sin, full of debauchery, a life of drugs and alcohol and partying and all of that. And but there was something about the way that he just unapologetically was himself, and he just cared for each one of the guys in my small group so well. He took me out for breakfast almost every other week, and we would just work through books of the Bible together. I had no idea what we were reading. I had really no idea um the context of the passage or anything like that, but we would just read the Bible together. And I remember that there was something so admirable about that in Trevor of this guy who, yeah, didn't have a degree, didn't have any sort of formal training in ministry, but he was just a devoted small group leader who loved on the men whom God placed in front of him. And I remember one day I I was at breakfast with him, and and I asked him, I said, Trevor, how can I do this full time for the rest of my life? And he said, Well, what do you mean? I said, How can I get breakfast and hang out with high school dudes like this for the rest of my life? And he's like, Well, you know I don't get paid, right? This is this isn't this isn't a a job for me. I do this because God's called me and I and I just love doing this, but I don't get paid. I don't get paid a penny for this. And I said, Okay, well, is there a job that I can do in this? I know I feel some uh sort of passion about meeting with with young guys and going through the Bible together like you've done with me. Is there some type of vocation that's like this? And he said, Well, yeah, you can you can pursue the pastorate. And he said, uh, but it's it's a little bit different than this. It's a little bit different than just getting breakfast with people. And there's a little bit more uh steps to be taken, uh a little bit more uh hard work involved in that. And obviously, 17, 18-year-old me, I'm like, uh, it couldn't be that hard, right? Yeah, um, we'll get into that later on. But uh so going back to the original question, I felt a call to do something completely different than ministry. Had no intention of it because I was actually really seeing kind of the instability of youth pastors in my life and what felt like nothing was sticking. And so I said, I don't really want anything to do with this if this is what ministry looks like. But then this guy, Trevor, my small group leader, really was showing me the the beauty of just simply meeting students where they're at, just simply opening up the scriptures, nothing fancy, but let's just look to God's word together and see some of the things you're struggling with as a as a student, as a guy in high school, and let's let's work through the scriptures together and see what God's word says about these things.

SPEAKER_00 18:46

Are you still in touch with Trevor?

SPEAKER_03 18:48

Uh, every so often, yeah. It's uh it's funny because he saw me in a very squirrely state when I was, you know, 17, 18 years old. I'm sure you remember when you were that age, you know, very squirrely and just man, he he had a lot of grace upon me for sure. But I I remember, um, I don't know, maybe a couple years ago, I I just sent him one of the sermons that I preached on Sunday and just said, brother, I'll never forget the time that you put into just caring for me. Um, I just want to show you kind of what what God's been doing through through the ministry that He's called me to. And uh I remember he he texted me, he's like, Bro, I'm in tears. And it was just a sweet moment.

SPEAKER_00 19:24

Um it's not often when you get to see the fruit of your ministry actually bloom like that.

SPEAKER_03 19:30

Right.

SPEAKER_00 19:31

And so for you to do that for him, that I I can only imagine what that meant.

SPEAKER_03 19:36

Yeah, I mean, uh I'll be honest, there's there's many times where I still remember some of those hard conversations I had with him and even just my own wrestlings at the time of man, I do I even do I even enjoy reading the Bible with you know with my small group leader, right? Again, no, I was truly saved at the time, but like is this again just a salvation that uh you know was because of my parents, or did I truly, truly uh was I truly gripped with the gospel? And uh we'll get into that in just a little bit. But yeah, it was uh through a lot of discipleship, a lot of uh mentoring that um the Lord at that point really placed uh some level of pastoral ministry upon my heart at that time. So around the age of 18 or so.

SPEAKER_00 20:17

And so then uh 18, senior year, um where'd you go? What what'd you do? What'd you do with that calling?

SPEAKER_03 20:27

Yeah, so even though I had felt that um some level of pastoral ministry would be something I'd be interested in, still in the back of my mind I was thinking about photojournalism too. And so uh I knew I wanted to go to a Christian school in in some measure um to just go and study. Again, ministry wasn't necessarily on my mind to study, it was just something I knew I wanted to do at some point. Um, and so I was looking around at different schools in the area. Um, and you know, praise God, there's actually quite a bit of schools around where I grew up and so or where we are now. And um at the time I began applying to almost all of the Christian universities and uh didn't mention this earlier, but I wasn't the best of students, and so uh I graduated high school, but not with anything shiny, no shiny GPA. And so I actually didn't get into a lot of the schools uh that I applied to. Um, but I got into a Sousa Pacific uh university. Okay, and so I uh attended their uh preview weekend where they basically have prospective students come in, you get to stay with a with a freshman or a sophomore in their dorm, you get to kind of experience for a weekend what uh life looks like as a college student. And so I remember that was really transformative for me to just be able to see okay, this is what a little bit of independence looks like, uh a little bit more of the quote unquote real world that I was entering into. Yep. And so that was a sweet weekend for me. But again, I uh was able to sit in and audit a couple of classes that were both. Both photojournalism classes. And I remember as I was sitting through those those courses, I mean, it was interesting and all, but nothing really stuck with me. It just kind of felt like, okay, this is interesting stuff. And it almost kind of felt at the end of the day like this could be maybe a fun hobby that I could uh you know pursue or continue down the road. But I don't know if this is what I really want to study like full term. And so it was through that, through a lot of prayer, um, that God put ministry again on my heart. And I remember at the end of the preview weekend, um, went back home, and I remember someone from the school would uh would send an email, kind of a follow-up, and then kind of a layout of um selecting what major you wanted to be, uh, what major you wanted to pursue. And then they would connect you with kind of a a board member of that department, and you'd you would get contacted, you'd reach out to them, you'd talk a little bit about uh what that process will look like. And it's interesting, it even sounds a little bit corny, even just mentioning this. But I remember on my computer, I had the list of majors right there. I I I see the intended major of journalism that I wanted to pursue, and there was something in that moment I I just couldn't click it. Like I couldn't click that to pursue as my major. It was like the Lord in that moment made it clear like scroll down and click on ministry. And so I I kind of just did it. I I I I hit Christian ministries and I submitted, and I was kind of like, why did I just do that?

SPEAKER_00 23:32

Why why do you think why did you choose Christian ministry over something like biblical studies or theology?

SPEAKER_03 23:39

Yeah, that's a great question. Uh, truthfully, at the time, I I don't think I really understood what a what a um educational training in those things would have looked like at that time. Okay. I just knew what I saw modeled to me well, which was youth ministry. I was like, okay, that sounds like Christian ministries, and so that sounds very practical. You know, at the time I was thinking, well, you know, a theology major, Bible major, that's maybe just too intellectual. You're maybe more talking about what you're gonna do without actually doing anything. And so I was like, I want to I want to learn the practical things, you know.

SPEAKER_00 24:13

If you could go back, would you still do Christian ministry, or would you uh now knowing what you know now, yeah, would you maybe have chosen biblical studies or theology? Probably would you stay the same?

SPEAKER_03 24:25

No, I I I probably would have changed to to theology or biblical studies, but I mean I'll I'll never regret um going through that program, at least for that first year at Azusa Pacific, because I met some wonderful people. Um one of the guys I met in that uh program was actually in my wedding, and I still keep in great contact with him. Um, and so it was it was very clear that the Lord wanted me in that for the season I was in. And so, yeah, although probably now looking back, I'd be like, man, I probably have a more potentially robust experience of being in some of those Bible classes or uh theology classes. Um, my experience in the Christian ministries program was was pretty sweet. And so um, but I did that for a year, so I was at APU for one year. Okay, and um through a lot of different things, um God called me to another Christian university to finish out the rest of my time, which was at Biola University.

SPEAKER_00 25:21

That's sacrilegious, dude. I know that's the enemy. I was a traitor, yeah. Whoa, did all your friends like leave leave you? Say how dare you?

SPEAKER_03 25:32

Uh wow. Yeah, I mean, without getting too too much into it, I I I did actually lose a couple of friendships, and I don't think it was because I changed schools, but I think just over time lost connection. But I still keep in contact with a couple friends from Azusa and and and one of those guys, Kobe, he's he's a um youth pastor actually in Orange County, and so it's uh it's really cool to see what God's done through him. But um, but yeah, God uh uh called me uh out of Azusa Pacific and into uh Biola University. And what's a little bit interesting about that um is that I grew up in a biola family. So uh my parents went to Biola, my both of my grandmothers worked at Biola uh in admissions, yeah. Wow. And so even from gosh, 12, 13, 14 years old, we were going to the uh Azusa Biola rival basketball games.

SPEAKER_00 26:24

Well, this just makes it even more. So you were a traitor to begin with.

SPEAKER_03 26:28

I was a double trader, exactly. Wow, yeah, you could say that for sure. Um long story short, I'll give a a brief just explanation. Um I grew up in public school my whole life, and uh when God really gripped my heart um in the later years of high school and really planted that seed of pastoral ministry upon me, I I wanted a clear change from the public school environment that I was in.

SPEAKER_01 26:55

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 26:55

And this is no knock at all on APU, just my personal experience that I went through, um, living in the dorm life. Uh mind you, I lived on a dorm floor full of football players. And so maybe some of that had to do with some of it. Um, but I yeah, it was not the um faith-based experience I was I was praying for and hoping for. And so I began to kind of explore what that could look like elsewhere. And uh the Lord uh in a lot of ways maybe called me back to Biola to some of my family roots, you could say. And so uh, and so and I praise God for that because I I met my wife through Biola. And so uh, but God called me to Biola, and uh I continued in the Christian ministries program there. So kind of just took what I learned for that year at APU and then kind of plug and play it at at Biola. And so a lot of similar classes were able to carry over, um, but then kind of finished out those final uh two and a half, three years there. Um and and I and I loved my experience in that.

SPEAKER_00 27:55

Uh so how you you mentioned it, so we gotta dive into this story. So you said you met your wife, you met Jess.

SPEAKER_03 28:02

I did, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:02

Uh how'd you guys meet?

SPEAKER_03 28:04

Yeah, so we actually met in class. So in uh in one of our uh ministry classes, uh it was psychology of learning and development, uh, one of the early uh kind of youth ministry classes, learning how to um kind of walk alongside students in their development path uh just growing up and learning how to respond to that as ministers. And so really interesting class. But yeah, I so I met my wife in that class. This was first or maybe second semester sophomore year. So I was maybe about 19 or 20 years old, and uh they were taking role in the class, and uh and they said uh Jake Saxton and uh you know raised my hand, said I'm here, whatever. And um, I remember after class Jess, uh who at the time was not my wife, uh she was just a classmate, she pulled me aside and she said, You said your last name's Saxton. And I said, Yeah, and she said, I I went to high school with the Saxton. Um, do you know a girl named Sam? And I said, Yeah, that's my cousin. And she's like, Oh, I I served on uh FCA, Fellowship Christian Athletes Leadership with her.

SPEAKER_01 29:15

Oh and uh small world, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:17

And um and I was like, no way, that's that's that's crazy. And uh so we kind of just from then kind of felt like some weird level of familiarity with each other, and um at that point I was in a relationship with somebody else. Uh it was kind of a high school relationship that carried on into uh first kind of couple years of college, and so uh wasn't interested by any means at that moment, just uh just a nice girl who was in class with me, and I had this kind of interesting connection toward uh through kind of family relations. And so um that was really funny that we met through that way. Um, but as time went on, we just continued to uh take similar classes as each other, and uh the relationship I was in uh ended, and um yeah, we just kind of pursued a friendship together at that point, Jess and I. Um nothing more. It was just uh getting to know each other a little bit. Uh we'd share notes in class. Uh I would pretend like I forgot my notes sometimes so I could get her number to text her for the notes she took for me. Um yeah, there's just trying little things here and there, but so what was the uh first uh official date? Yeah, so the first official date was so it sounds pretty funny, but it was at the end of uh two back-to-back three-hour classes that we took together on Monday nights. And so but it was it was rough, but it was pretty fun because there was kind of a cohort of us of maybe about 15 uh ministry students who took a lot of the same classes together. So you really had six hours together and you were this like little family. That's cool. It was really cool. So after the first three-hour course, we'd all go and get dinner together and we show up late to our our second class, and our professor wouldn't really care because they knew we were all together anyway. So um, so it was at the end of a of a six-hour long kind of two-class night of just sitting in pure agony and anxiety because I knew I wanted to ask her out, and uh, and so it was after class, after that second class, at this point, I think that class was like a six to nine p.m. class. And so, yeah, like nine, nine thirty by the time we're walking out into the parking lot. And and mind you, this was the uh last class or last course before winter break. And so uh at Biola we had about two and a half, three weeks of winter break before we went back to the spring.

SPEAKER_00 31:40

Where is she originally from?

SPEAKER_03 31:41

So she's also from Orange County. Um, she actually lived within 10-15 minutes of the campus, so in La Habra. Okay, okay. So she was real close, and uh so I was pretty strategic in how I was gonna ask her out because I knew, well, if I ask her out on a date, I knew that if she said no, I had three weeks to kind of uh hide from her in a lot of ways until the spring semester. Right. But if she said yes, then I had three weeks to get to know this girl, you know, and maybe we would only get on one date, but maybe a couple more dates, you know? And so I'm like, hmm, maybe take the advice, young man. Hear this, hear this. Yeah, always always ask that girl out before a uh a semester break because you have some time there for for better or worse. But um, so I uh yeah, I was so nervous, almost had uh a couple of panic attacks in in both of those classes, just kind of geared myself up for it. And then yeah, we were out at the parking lot and she was with a couple girlfriends and said bye and kind of like a scene out of a movie, almost borderline creepy, so bear with me. But I I I kind of in some ways come out of kind of the side uh where some of the some of the bushes or trees were because I was kind of waiting for a proper time to ask her out when she's alone. So we're in this dark parking lot, and I kind of come out of the side where the bushes are, and I'm like, wait, Jess, wait up. She kind of turns around and she's like, Yeah, what's up? And I and I said, you know, I'm shaking. I feel like I'm gonna pass out. And I'm like, hey, I think you're beautiful. Uh I'd love to take you out on a date at some point if you'd like to. And she said, uh, okay, sounds good. And so that was only by God's grace that she said yes. And so um, yeah, the rest is the rest is history. So what was the date? So we um I think a week later, we went to Islands restaurant in uh in Newport Beach. Yes, and this was also in December. So this was I think our first date was December 10th of 2018. And so uh we went to Islands in Newport Beach, and then I took her to the uh to Baba Island and we walked around and looked at Christmas lights. And so uh yeah, it was kind of teed up for me to do something sweet. Yeah.

unknown 33:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 33:49

Uh I was using the time of year to my advantage there, but uh yeah, so that was our first date. I remember neither of us barely ate more than like five bites of our food, and so we we both had our our to-go boxes right away because we're like, I I couldn't eat anything, was so nervous. But um but I'll mention this, it was pretty interesting, and it is again only by by God's providence that this kind of came to be. But um on our first date, we started kind of talking about our life, our upbringing, and all that, and we started to see some really uh what seemed like coincidental uh kind of connections between our families. And uh, so with that, we found out early on into our first date that our parents went to high school together. No way and our and our parents knew each other. Yeah, they they they weren't like great friends, but they were they knew who each other were. Uh uh, my uh is this secretly an arranged marriage?

SPEAKER_00 34:42

I know what's going on.

SPEAKER_03 34:44

We're starting to think it over the years now, like uh, our parents were up to something, maybe. But uh yeah, so we found out our parents went to high school together. Um that our uh our grandparents, both sets, somehow came into contact with each other over the years through Biola. Yeah, it was just strange. Like my dad's parents owned an old antique shop down in a um down in Old Town Whittier, and so did her grandparents, an antique shop, different one, but same one. So it was just like random things like that that we were just thinking, oh my goodness, what is what's God showing us here? It was like, you just want to get married, you know? Yeah, let's just go. Yeah, and so um, yeah, we kind of experienced that very early on of like there's some strange family connections here. Um, but again, that's God's grace upon us. And so yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:28

And so was she pursuing the same major?

SPEAKER_03 35:30

Yeah, yeah. So she uh she was also a ministry major. Um, she grew up in the church. Her family was very similar to mine. Uh her grandparents raised her parents both in the faith, and uh she went to all the camps, similar to me. She was very involved too. I would say much more involved even than I was. And uh she grew up going to Hume Lake and and all the kind of classic youth group spots. And so um God called her to pursue youth ministry as well. And uh actually, our senior year of high school, she was one of the students, the lucky few that actually got the job before she graduated. So she was actually working at a church in Fullerton at that time, EV3 Fullerton Church. Oh, yeah. Um, and she served on uh the high school ministry as uh one of the girls' directors, and so she was on a team of four or five people, and so uh larger church there as well. But she yeah, served with some of the freshmen and sophomore girls. And so uh yeah, she got the job before we even graduated, and she was in full-time ministry uh at the age of 19. And so I know even as she looks back, she's like, man, I was I was like a year older than the girls I was discipling. And so uh it was I I know a great experience for her, but also uh a very learning experience too. And so yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:46

Which is which is the best.

SPEAKER_03 36:47

It is, it is, and so yeah, so that was uh how we met. We met through the ministry department there, and then yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:56

So um so you're going through uh you guys graduate, yeah. Um you guys obviously your husband and wife now. Um right what what senior year were you looking for youth pastor jobs? What what what was going on now? Because I mean, very similar to senior high school, people are asking you, okay, what are you gonna do? What college are you going to? I imagine, okay, you have Christian ministries, you're going through this program um at Biola. Um, are you looking for youth pastor jobs? What's what's on your mind?

SPEAKER_03 37:31

Yeah. So uh that was really interesting because, like I mentioned, Jess was already in a ministry uh position by the time we both graduated. There was a lot of factors at play in kind of the direction I was looking, and one of those was we were in the middle of a pandemic at that point. So we were we were the COVID semester, so that was uh spring of 2020 is when we graduated in our undergrad. And so my so COVID came really came big in kind of January, February of that, and so we were kind of right in the thick of it towards the end of us graduating. We actually didn't even have a a live graduation for college. So uh we we had a we had a a virtual Phil Wickham concert for our graduation, and it was it was sweet, it was cool, but it was not the uh kind of the physical in-person graduation that you kind of kind of dream about when you're a freshman of like, man, I can't wait to walk across that stage and and shake the president's hand and just kind of say I did it, you know? Didn't get that. So um they did some later on. It was kind of a drive-by graduation, and and at that point we were both married, and so it's I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 38:40

You were married. Yeah, you got married while you were still in school.

SPEAKER_03 38:43

No, sorry, sorry. So that that drive-by graduation was about six months later, after you guys got married six months right out of college, yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:52

You weren't wasting any time.

SPEAKER_03 38:53

No, and and by that point we were uh we were dating for a little over a year, and so we dated all around about a year and a half before uh proposed. We had a very short engagement, uh, three months, and so uh proposed on 4th of July of uh 2020. Nice, got married November 7th of 2020. So it was uh pretty short.

SPEAKER_00 39:14

But okay, good for you.

SPEAKER_03 39:16

We knew that by that point it just made more sense being married than not. And we said, you know, what are we waiting for? Um, and again, in the middle of a pandemic, and so we knew uh wedding venues were limited. Backyard weddings. Backyard weddings. We did. It was a family friend of hers up in La Haber Heights, beautiful property. We would we probably would do it now, even if we uh, you know, didn't get married in a pandemic. It was just beautiful, very intimate. Um, but anyways, back to uh being called into ministry after college, kind of what that process looked like. So Jess was working at a church, that church in Fullerton, and uh she felt pretty good in her position. And but she did know that if God was calling me to a ministry position, that she would transition out of that role so that she could um uh follow where God was leading me, and she would want to obviously attend and worship at the church that God called me to. We didn't want to do that separately. No, um, we already had to do that at in some degree during school when I was interning at one place and she was working at another, and that was that was not fun.

SPEAKER_00 40:19

Where were you interning?

SPEAKER_03 40:20

So I I I interned at that uh that large church, Eastside Christian Church in Anaheim. So I interned with her junior high ministry for about a year. Okay. Um, but simultaneously at that time, Jess was working at the Fullerton Church, and so we maybe in that span of time sat in a service together maybe twice in the span of a year, and I think it was a Good Friday service that the church I was at didn't even offer. So I think it was because we just didn't have a service, and so I'm like, okay, it's my time to go sit with my girlfriend. Yeah. Um so yeah, so so Jess was uh really on board with if God was calling me somewhere that she would transition out where she was and that she was gonna follow me. Okay. And supportive, very supportive. Yeah, and and praise God for that. Um, she was always really on board of if God's calling you somewhere, I'm gonna I'm gonna pick up and follow you. Um we're gonna go together. It's this is a family, family thing, not just a you thing. This is we're in this together, and so I was always so grateful for that. Um, so yeah, so that was let's see, graduation was May of 2020. Um right around that time, there was a transition hap transition happening at uh Cornerstone Community Church in San Clemente and their youth ministry. Um which it's funny because I'm actually really close with the uh with the former youth pastor. We still connect uh from time in time, and uh he's at a church in in northern California right now as a family pastor. But uh at that time, Cornerstone was going through a transition, and uh I remember um I got an email around maybe mid to late June, I think with maybe a week or two left until I graduated, an email from um who at the time was the I believe either the teaching or executive pastor at Cornerstone, uh, who also served as one of my primary professors at Biola. Emailed a group of us and said, Hey, there is a uh role opening up at uh at this church down by the beach. Uh it doesn't pay much, but you're gonna be right by the ocean and you get to uh pour into kids. And man, I said, say less, you know, uh sign me up. And so I always uh grew up coming down to San Clemeni. My parents would always uh camp at San Mateo right by Pendleton, and so I grew up doing that a couple times a year since I was maybe 10, 11 years old, and so I was I was somewhat familiar with San Clemeni. Um, never knew I'd actually live there, and it'd be my backyard one day, and so and my my field of ministry. Um but yeah, so so through that invitation, uh through that email that my professor sent to us, um followed up and uh got a little bit down the road connected to uh a group of the elders uh at Cornerstone. And uh again, this was in the middle of a pandemic, and so kind of my interview process was all through Zoom. And uh so I remember the first time I uh, and this was before I was officially hired, the first time I ever met the students at Cornerstone was through a screen, was through Zoom. Wow. And I think at the time there was maybe three or four students uh on Zoom. I don't know if there was three or four in the ministry at the time, but there was three or four that actually hopped on Zoom for this kind of quote unquote interview. And uh basically the interview was, well, I'm I'm gonna preach a message to these students on Zoom. And mind you, by this point I've maybe taught two or three times in my life. Um and again, in the kind of megachurch culture scene, a lot of it was through a teleprompted uh uh pre sermon before even showing it on the large screen. And so a lot of my teaching experience was not live, it was uh In a green room to a teleprompter, and then it would be shown to the students that following Sunday. Wow. And so, yes, very, very different from what we're doing right now. I can't even imagine. And truthfully, I know God can use that in in different ways, and God can uh capture the heart of students through that type of ministry. That was just not what God was calling me to. And he made that very clear to me that that was not what he was calling me to. So with that experience, I'm like, okay. So I am in the office of my parents' house. Uh I I think I had a like a Hawaiian shirt with like gym shorts on underneath, because obviously no one can see on Zoom. So I'm like, oh yeah, you remember those days. Um and I was uh expected to give a I don't know, 20-minute message or so to these three or four students on Zoom. And so that was the first time I met both the elders, all of them at once, and the students on a little box on Zoom. And so uh yeah, by God's grace, I was able to um just go through Galatians 5 with them about the fruits of the spirit and the the wrestling between the spirit and the flesh, and and uh at the end of that I was able to pray over the students and then I had a follow-up uh Zoom appointment with the guys, and they wanted to uh to meet me. And yeah, just kind of as time unfolded, God uh God opened that door for me at Cornerstone, and so I and then I came on staff officially August 1st of 2020. So got a maybe couple two, three months after that. So yeah, that was kind of the journey to get to my real first pastoral ministry position. You know, I'd served growing up in various volunteer roles, but real first kind of pastoral full-time ministry position.

SPEAKER_00 45:43

So and so for for you guys, okay, so you're having to move down to San Clemente, you and Jess, you're married, uh, been married for almost a year by that point, right? Yep, almost a year. Um so now you're stepping into this, it was full-time. What is she doing? Because obviously she got her degree and it was purposeful for this. What is she doing now at this point?

SPEAKER_03 46:10

Yeah, great question. Yeah, so that was uh yeah, for the first six months of of our marriage since she transitioned out of uh full-time ministry and working in high school ministry, she um at the same time of doing that already, she was uh doing some nannying uh gigs for certain families that she knew uh at the churches she was a part of growing up. And uh when we moved out to San Clemeni uh for this position uh at Cornerstone, we uh were just in a small apartment and you know, I was starting to kind of get my feet under underneath me at the church, and uh she was able to get a couple uh nannying jobs in kind of some local towns near San Clemeni. And so she got connected to a few families doing that. And um, as a side note, nannying is a pretty sweet gig. Like she she made some pretty decent money, and so uh which she loved it, and she's always had a very maternal uh instinct to her, and so she loved being able to care for the little ones and all that. But um, so she was doing that for uh yeah, almost the first year of our marriage. Um and uh kind of around that time we were just kind of having ongoing discussions throughout that first year of where she felt like God was calling her, um, you know, vocationally. And um and and what I found to be so interesting is that she never truly felt, though she loved ministry, she never felt or held on to it as like an identity for her. Um she knew she was called and loved uh to care for um the students God put in front of her, but she never felt once like if I don't do ministry, I don't know what I would ever do with my life. Like she um did feel called to some other areas, and so um we had some discussion, and um, I remember while she uh during our wedding in COVID, she did uh her own flower arrangements for her bouquets and for her bridesmaids' uh bouquets. She did a great job. And um I believe it was the Lord that probably put that on my heart in that moment. Um we were just talking over lunch one day and just saying, well, you you like flowers, you know. And in the moment I didn't really think much of it. I'm like, you know, you enjoy flowers, you kind of have a creative bug to you. Like, maybe why don't you pursue that a little bit?

SPEAKER_00 48:21

Um, this is your idea.

SPEAKER_03 48:23

It actually was, funny enough. Yeah. Okay, yeah. And so uh this was during the first year of our marriage, and I kind of just in some ways planted that seed uh in her to maybe maybe consider something with florals, uh whether it's just uh individual personal designs for people, or maybe one day a larger scale. Who knows, how God could use could use that gifting. And so uh that day we were kind of just dreaming. We were just dreaming about what that could look like. Uh we were even just kind of playing around with business names uh of of what that could be and had no real grounding or really any right to do that in that moment. It just kind of felt fun, you know? And uh it was pretty sweet because around that time, too, we had a couple of our friends who were getting married. And so a few of our uh who are now some of our closest friends had reached out to Jess and uh asked her, could you do our flowers for our for our wedding? And um they said, We know you're not really a pro and you haven't had much time doing this, but we'd love to be kind of the guinea pigs for you, just to kind of try it out. And so her first couple of wedding clients were some of our best friends, and so she did two or three weddings for friends without any sort of payment, just like I I'll just do it. I I'd love to just help you out in this way. That was kind of our gift to them. We'll do the flowers for free. And and I say we, I was basically just the human step stool for her, and just you know, any of the high things she needed to grab. That was kind of my role, but um, so yeah, so she started doing that uh about a year in uh to our marriage, and uh God just grew what really is a ministry for her. Um, she she loves being able to um pour into the clients that she's working with. Uh she loves to, whether they're believers or not, she loves to continually um kind of give them her vision for her business, uh, how it is she got here, and and ultimately pointing it back to God's glory, um unashamedly. And she she's so good at that. And what's the name? Jalen Florals. So so Jay and Jessica Lynn's her middle name and florals. And so um, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:25

She does she still do it?

SPEAKER_03 50:26

She does, yeah, she does. So uh she'd been doing it full-time for uh about three years, and then uh then our little guy came along, and uh when Levi was born, she uh took a step back a little bit. Sure. Um so she's in more of a part-time uh kind of capacity, but she's still doing it. So yeah, so she's still booking clients and doing weddings and uh baby showers, all the those fun things. And so it's pretty sweet how kind of in the the age we're at, a lot of people are still, you know, getting engaged, married, having kids. So it's kind of a sweet time for her to be doing that.

SPEAKER_00 51:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 51:02

Um so yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:04

So you step into youth ministry, this is your first you know, gig. It's it's full time, new home, still newlywed. Right. Uh so what's job one now of youth ministry? What um because I mean I remember uh I had been out of youth ministry for about a year at that point. It was actually a year, yeah. Wait, you stepped in in August of 20. Yes. Yeah, it has been a year already since I had stepped out. Yes, and you were stepping out with a young adults. Young adults. Right. Um and so um uh 2019 is when I stepped out. So yeah, it was about a year. Okay. Um so um so what what's job one now? Yeah. What what what do you what what are you doing? I mean, I remember yeah, youth group was tiny at the time. So I was definitely going through some sort of rebuild.

SPEAKER_03 52:15

Absolutely. So yeah, um that was one of the biggest uh adjustments you can say for both myself and my wife. Uh coming from the church backgrounds we were used to, um, I was interning in a junior high ministry of about 250 junior high students that we'd see across three or four services on a Sunday. And um, so that was what I was was typically used to in some manner. And then coming to Cornerstone, I remember at the time it's uh, you know, we had less adults than we did junior hires at the at the church that I was at previously. And I remember for me that was a huge culture shock. Sure. Of like, oh man, this is this is a small uh community family style fellowship here where um people know everyone's business and people uh just really know how to do life together. And and I saw that from uh from day one, my first Sunday of essentially being kind of commissioned on as the as the youth pastor, um, meeting the uh the senior pastor for not what was the first time, but one of the first times, Ron Suket, who was barefoot and he was walking around and he was kissing on people. And and I'm like, man, this guy's great. Let's let's clarify.

SPEAKER_00 53:26

He kisses you on the cheek. Yes, yes, yes. We'll let's let's clarify. This is not a cult. No, no, nothing, nothing weird. Yes, that is when when when Ron uh knows you and you know him, there's a comfortability there, and he will do that.

SPEAKER_03 53:42

Right, absolutely. And we we love Ron, both of us do. Yes, still love getting together with him whenever he's in town. But um, but yeah, one of my one of my first Sundays, I remember seeing this guy walking around barefoot and what just looked like an old surfer in town, and and then he was the same guy that got up and preached the 40-minute sermon, and I was like, man, that's the that's the senior pastor. Well like that's San Clemeni. That's awesome. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. That was definitely my kind of first taste of San Clemeni. And so um as far as the the role of youth pastor coming to Cornerstone, like you mentioned, the youth group was really small, uh, a lot of rebuilding that needed to be taking place. Um again, still middle of a pandemic, and so uh I know Cornerstone in a lot of ways um was kind of able to squeak by some of the uh mandates just because of our size, being in San Clemeni, you know, we were uh kind of had the ocean breeze, we were able to get outside a lot more, and so there was kind of ways we were able to do ministry around uh COVID. So we uh in some ways didn't have the full length of the lockdown like a lot of churches did, and so I was very blessed to be able to still meet with students and still, even if it was just stopping by um their homes and dropping off cookies or something with my wife, just saying, hey, we love you, we're here, um can't wait to do youth group with you whenever that day comes, you know, uh, because it was still, I think at the time, uh not appropriate to have kind of enclosed uh youth group settings. And so we would do some things on Sunday mornings, but really the the kind of the midweek youth group nights were still on pause. And so yeah, I remember, gosh, for the first few months, my wife Jess and I would just go to each student's door, would just just knock and say, Hey, we love you, nice to meet you, you know. We'd I remember it was kind of a fun thing. We'd almost like take a selfie with the students and say, Hey, we this is our kind of our fellowship for today.

SPEAKER_00 55:32

I think I remember that.

SPEAKER_03 55:33

Yeah, such a such a such a weird, weird time, but you know, God used that. And so um, yeah, so that's really how things started. And then um yeah, not soon after, uh, by God's grace, we were able to meet again together as as a youth group. And so uh, as you're well aware of the youth trailer down there at uh lower campus, we started meeting there, and um, yeah, was really just kind of a core handful of kids at first. And um, you know, I was like, all right, let's let's do this kind of more of a small group type setting of we're gonna circle up and I'm gonna just open the Bible and we're just gonna just gonna start reading together, and then we're gonna just uh do our highs and lows and check in, we're gonna pray over each other and just kind of kept that routine for the first, I don't know, six months or so, and just kind of kept things simple that way. And then um some of the some of the students were uh starting to invite friends, and so uh friends were coming to the church, and uh that was really cool being able to uh have students who were coming. Yet one of the challenges we we had faced early on is that a lot of the students that were coming on a uh I believe it was a Tuesday or Wednesday night for youth group at the time, um, they were unchurched. They uh their parents weren't going to church, they uh were just students from either the neighborhood or just a a teammate of one of our students. And so um we kind of were building this core group of kids who didn't have a church home, but it it it was kind of like a youth group was the church home for them, and and I don't recommend that at all, but uh it was at least a safe place for them to at least feel um like they could come and they could ask questions, and uh they knew that they would have some level of community with the kids that were there, and so we kind of were building this ministry of just students who didn't have a place to call home for church, and so that was kind of a unique way of beginning youth ministry for me because again, I'm the kid that grew up in the very kind of standard cookie cutter. Yep, you got all the programs, all the bells and whistles, and you kind of just know exactly what you're gonna do, and all the parents were bought in on it. It was like, yeah, you'd receive donations for camp every other month, and it was like you knew all the kids were going, it was fully funded, you had no problem with fundraising whatsoever, and then kind of getting into this kind of new culture where man, a lot of our students, their parents don't even go to church. So getting some of these parents, let alone to just show up on a Sunday, but also to understand youth ministry culture of like, yeah, we're gonna go to camp, we're gonna do these things was extremely challenging. Get them there for an info meeting or something. Yeah, it was it was polling teachers to get them to come to hear, why should I care that you know you're wanting to do this with my kid, you know? Yep. Um so yeah, there was definitely some some challenges right off the bat that um I was experiencing, which looking back though, I I'm I am truly grateful for because it was, I believe, God really stretching me and and and pulling me in some uncomfortable directions as far as okay, you have you you you don't have the typical quote unquote cookie cutter youth group culture. Right. What do you do with that? Yeah, do you pick up and run? And do you go to maybe what's easier to maybe uh a ministry context that does have that, that you can maybe just kind of slot right into and do what you've been kind of trained to do for the past four years? Or do you just find fresh ways of doing ministry? And in a lot of ways, going back to what ministry really is, is the just the one-on-one just discipleship, teaching people the word of God, nothing fancy of like, hey, let's just let's look to the scriptures together and let's talk about some of the things you guys are wrestling with at school, and let's just what does God's word say about that? Not not what's my opinion about it, or what so-and-so on you know Instagram or TikTok's telling you, but what does God's word say about this? And so yeah, man, that was kind of the first real introduction I'd say to youth ministry, uh, full-time that I that I had at Cornerstone.

SPEAKER_00 59:37

And so um what how how long were you in that seat? So I was youth pastor.

SPEAKER_03 59:49

Yeah, um, and as you know quite well, as you've been a part of uh some more medium size and also some smaller church context too. If you uh if you're uh anything over just slightly part-time, you're wearing multiple hats in ministry. Uh you don't just have one role. So sometimes you can be doing multiple things. And uh, and so that was what I found myself doing of okay, I was the youth pastor, but I was also uh helping out in in other areas in the church as well. Um, it was uh a lot of facility things, a lot of uh which you Morgan's saying yes and amen to. Um and then um shortly after um Morgan transitioned, uh I was trying to help out with some of the college students that were still left at the church. And uh so I was doing students and young adults to some degree, but it was really just trying to get a handful of young adults to just share a meal together.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:47

That was a just over. You showed up in August of 20, and when I had stepped away, that was um November 21. So just over a year later.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:02

Just over a year later, and it wasn't immediate, so there was definitely like kind of a uh a bit of a time gap where there just wasn't much of a of a college ministry um presence, but it was clear that some of these students were still at the church and there was a need to still gather. And uh so I was kind of uh gently pushed in that direction from some of the other leaders in the church of, well, Jake, why don't you just you know tack that on to gently? Yeah, yeah, voluntary voluntold, you could say, yeah. Um like, hey Jake, you know, you're you're the the full-time guy, you know. Why don't you just that's what happens when you're full-time.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:39

It's hard to say yeah, you don't get to say no very often.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:42

Yeah, not always. And so um, so I I stepped into that just for a very, very short season of doing um both student ministry, well, I guess all student ministry, but youth and uh college. And so uh it was kind of more than the roles kind of morphed into like a next gen ministry in some way. Sure. Uh whatever you want to call it. But um so yeah, I was doing that for a season, and uh mind you, the ministry always stayed somewhat small. It it never the youth ministry, the youth ministry, it never blew up. It wasn't like this overnight we had a hundred kids that came. Um but no, we we had a a pretty solid core group of kids. Um we did some of the youth group things. We went to winter camp and uh we did some of kind of our own DIY summer camp type deals, and we went to uh a lot of a lot of fun areas in town, like uh, you know, we did Sky Zone and and uh some beach days, a lot of bonfires, so many bonfires, as you probably remember. Every summer, yep. And so yeah, we were we were doing uh the youth group things, but we just kind of stayed at a very consistent, steady uh group. And so um yeah, I I over time learned to just be okay with that. I was like, you know what, this is fine. I I again growing up in a culture where it was very uh numbers driven, success kind of came through uh growing numerically in ministry. That was uh hard to kind of shake.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:04

Um like so let's let's touch on that. Yeah, sure. What so what do you go deeper with that? What do you mean by that? What was what was hard? What was what did exactly did you have to shake? Was this something you were taught? Like if you're not uh growing numerically, you're not you're not cutting it, like is that the type mentality you were raised around or even taught?

SPEAKER_03 1:03:26

Yeah, I I wouldn't say explicitly, but in some ways implied of if if you are not seeing tangible fruit in terms of numbers, like more more students each week and it's growing, and you're uh you're having a problem of needing more volunteers, then uh then yeah, there might be something wrong with the narrative.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:48

Where did this come from?

SPEAKER_03 1:03:49

Uh I would say I I think some of the the the church context I grew up in, I kind of saw that model in some ways. Again, not explicitly saying this, but but the way it was lived out, it was pretty clear. Um it was almost, and again, I don't know exactly reasons uh at the time in high school why certain uh high school pastors transitioned off, but um it it was clear that there was some level of uh success driven by numbers outcome. And so um, yeah, and and just as a young guy pursuing ministry, you tend to uh you know have people you're looking up to. And uh, and at the time, because I came from that background, I was looking up to some guys who had really large ministries, and and I thought that's how church was supposed to be done. And if I don't have this kind of cool hip, trendy, uh large, growing church ministry, then I'm probably not called to it, and uh God's probably not blessing it. And so um truthfully, man, when when you're in seasons of what feels like not a lot of numerical growth, it was hard for me in the back of my mind not to shake that misconception of of man, we're not growing in that sense. There was spiritual growth, which I'd argue was the most important growth, obviously. And so but it was hard to not think to some level, okay, I'm doing something wrong, or or maybe I'm not the guy. Maybe maybe the church needs someone else.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:19

What did that in the in in while you were processing that, what was that doing to you?

SPEAKER_03 1:05:24

It was discouraging. Absolutely discouraging. Um it was making me question calling, uh, making me question maybe the call that uh others spoke into when I was younger. Um I I had a few uh men in my life who um kind of gave a a verbal um I don't know, I guess a peer laying on of hands, if you will, of of I see God calling you into ministry. And so thinking back to those moments at that time of like, okay, we're was that a a kind of a false call? Or were those guys seeing something that wasn't actually there? Were they misleading me? Or was I hearing something that I wanted to hear but wasn't actually true? All those thoughts started going on in my mind of like maybe, maybe ministry isn't for me.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:14

And so I remember for the simple reason of you weren't seeing numerical growth. That was a big part. Big part of it for sure.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:23

For sure. Yeah, gaining traction with parents, um not feeling like youth ministry culture was really building at cornerstone of like, okay, this is all somehow coming back to my lack of um leadership or my lack of calling, if you will.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:39

And so yeah. Do you think let me and and we touched on this earlier, but do you think the Christian ministry degree that you got did it prepare you well? Or or was there some things where it was it gave you it gave you some tools, but then you get into it and saying, whoa, this is so different than what I had been taught.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:08

Yeah, uh, I'd say yes and no. I I'd say in some ways it did prepare me, and I'd say in other ways, um I I didn't really understand until I was in it. Of uh, yeah, I mean, there's only so much you can study in a textbook uh if you're not actually, you know, getting your hands dirty and doing it. And so uh yeah, I I learned pretty uh pretty early on, like, okay, there were some things that were not in the coursework that I'm dealing with here, you know? And um yeah, and even I just remember this is kind of a side note, but we had uh we had one barbecue, it was at one of the uh one of the staff members' homes, and uh there was a a spouse of one of the staff members. Uh he gave me kind of a hard time because it was right after we had finished dinner, we were all uh uh stacking chairs and stuff, and then he kind of nudged me. He's like, Oh, uh seminary seminary didn't prepare you for this, did they? Like, you know, as far as like this wasn't in the job description, right? Of like stacking chairs and you know, uh cleaning up and tearing down and all that. And I kind of laughed because I'm like, yeah, you know, but it's all it's all part of it, right? And that's just that's just a small, small example. But yeah, there was definitely uh things I learned early on uh of being in full-time youth ministry that, oh man, yeah, uh Bible college didn't fully prepare me in some of these ways.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:25

What do you think was the biggest thing that the biggest gap between uh what you learned in school to then actually doing the work? What was the biggest gap?

SPEAKER_03 1:08:37

Hmm. I would say Well, uh truthfully, I I would say, and again, maybe some of this was because of the context I was raised in and the church culture I was in. Um what do you like, what do you do if parents don't don't get on board with you running the youth ministry? Like if parents aren't fully bought into some of the uh ideas that you're trying to promote or these parents are the ones you're talking about that weren't church. Yes, exactly, exactly. Getting them to show up to things. So how do you, as a 22-year-old youth pastor, um newly married, uh understands theology to an elementary level, you know? Uh how how do you, in your first year of ministry, how do you care for the needs of the unchurched who are uh in your own, you know, building, right? So it's like the students who are showing up who, you know, don't know a lick of scripture at all. You know, they they uh barely understand who Jesus is. And how do you care for them well? How do you care for their families well? And how do you get their parents to uh fully understand uh what it is that you're trying to teach them is actually life-giving and um and is and is and is needed for their soul. Um that was something I I found out early on. I had to have some hard conversations with parents of saying, hey, you know, you need to, you kind of need to buy into this because this is this is biblical what we're trying to do here. And and again, if there's not much of a a faith there, they're gonna have a hard time understanding, you know, what's what's biblical and what's not. And so um that was an early challenge for sure that I dealt with. I can't think of anything specifically more off the top of my head, but that was definitely one for sure. Um, but yeah, I mean, you have the obvious ones of like if you have a you know dying church member or you have um a very specific need that feels so far out of your bandwidth or control, you know, what do you do in that moment? And you know, maybe we had a couple things that we touched on um during Baba College, but I can't really remember exactly. So I mean I should tell you, you know, something. But um, yeah, a lot of those things you kind of just have to learn as you go along in it and just rely on God's spirit to lead you um into strength, because that it's his strength that's in you when you do those things. Yes, yeah, especially early on as a as a young, fresh out of college, 22-year-old youth pastor, you're like, I don't I don't know what I'm doing, you know. Yeah, I'm just I'm trying to figure it out myself, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:01

So, how did you eventually overcome that discouragement? What what finally got you over that hump?

SPEAKER_03 1:11:11

Great question. Yeah, I uh I'd say a few things. Uh one, my wife, uh my wife, uh endless prayer, uh tears, hard conversations. Um her continuously telling me that ministry is bigger than you. Um that the call that God has placed upon your life is is bigger than what you can do. It's uh it's what God is going to do through you. Um continuously reminding me of that, like that God is a lot bigger and a lot more powerful than I am and I ever will be. And so um don't be so um quick to to uh jump ship or to uh doubt what it is that God can do through through a ministry like this. And so that was one for sure. Um a lot of prayer myself, a lot of prayer uh with the Lord, a lot of um seeking the scriptures and a lot of uh a lot of uh looking at some of the pastoral epistles as well, of just Paul writing to Timothy, a young pastor, of of getting Timothy prepared for what ministry will look like and reminding myself like this was never supposed to be easy. Um I I didn't say yes to this job, or maybe I did at the time blindly, but but I I didn't jump into this because I thought it was gonna be uh you know a cakewalk, right? I didn't think this was gonna be an easy career path, um, but it's but it's a calling that that God puts on your on your heart. Um I think it was Paul Washer that once said he he he says to young guys, if uh if you go into ministry because uh you you think it's going to be a good paying job, it's gonna uh be emotionally st stable for you, don't don't do it. Essentially, like if you can do anything else, do it. Because ministry is a calling.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:55

Um well that's why whenever somebody has approached me um and said, hey, I think the Lord's calling me to eat, you know. I will my intention in in the healthiest and best of ways to care for them and then Christ bride is I do everything that I can to get them to not step into that. I I try to I don't want to say discourage because I don't want to discourage them, but I try to tell them the bad and the ugly, the reality of things. Uh, because we see so much i i for those that aren't involved, or maybe those are in college and you're aspiring, right, to to that. You see the pastor preaching and you see all this cool that you as you you know, as we've been unpacking all this, the things that are behind the scenes, right? That's the stuff that gets you. Um I just saw a post today from a pastor of just different different items that are to the congregation of a uh of a church, which is things that they just don't see within the pastoral life. And I I I get very real raw with that person when I hear that. Um and the reason I do is because if you're truly called, you'll keep going. If you're not called, if this is truly something the Lord has not laid on your heart to do, then that will make you turn. Right? And so that's awesome that Jess was able to um our wives have the special ability to speak such life um into us in times when we are doubting or discouraged. Um but I also think outside of that, this is an exact reason why um we can't be islands.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:57

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:58

We we are meant to have a plurality to share the load, to not just share the load of the ministry, but to also lean on when we're weak. Right, right, absolutely uh or discouraged and and whatnot. We're there as brothers in the same ministry, in the same fight, to lean on each other. This is why we see in the New Testament, as you alluded to to the epistles, of going and establishing elders, plural, right? Um it's biblical, otherwise, um, it can be a place of isolation, yeah, it can be very lonely. It can be very lonely, yeah. Um, and it's uh so needed. And so it's wonderful. You you introduced yourself as co-pastor, and it made me so happy because you do have a wonderful co-pastor with Winston. Yeah, um, and you guys are sharing the load, and that is wonderful, yeah. Absolutely wonderful and a gift.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:54

Yeah, you know, I thank you. Yeah, it's um it's a real blessing, and uh we understand that uh we each are just one of the pastors. Yep. We're one of the pastors. Um one may uh have a more front role in teaching, one may have a more front role in one-on-one discipleship or family ministry, but we are just at the end of the day, one of the pastors. That's it. Um as you said, God's called us to lead uh with other brothers, and so um, yeah, and and the last uh the uh last way of kind of overcoming that discouragement, I'd say, is is actually through um the elders of Cornerstone. Uh during during that time of discouragement, I had some pretty raw conversations with with the elders and um were kind of wrestling with some of these things too, of like, I I don't know if I'm if I'm the person uh long term for this role in in youth ministry here and and uh and kind of wasn't giving any sort of uh ultimatums or any anything at all about what I was wanting or needing or felting like I I should should have or seek out from the church, but it was just a raw conversation of like if if you guys are seeing this uh similarly to what I'm explaining to you as far as the ministry just not growing and it's just we're losing students and families, and and if and if you believe that's that's falling on on my shoulders, then then I want to essentially give you the the the permission if you're seeking it for to to kind of have me move on, you know, to somewhere else. And I remember in that moment, um a couple of the elders, one in particular, um said, you know, Jake, we we want to take this time to come alongside you and to encourage you and to uh walk with you in uh some of the struggle that you're you're feeling. And we want to empower you and and affirm you in the call that God has given you because we see it. And uh and during that time, too, as a side note, uh God started opening up some doors in the teaching ministry at Cornerstone. And so I started to um through various different uh reasons and seasons of life, I was filling the pulpit uh a little bit more. Um what year was this? Right around. This was uh I mean I started every so often teaching from when I came to Cornerstone, but it was maybe once or twice a year if that's uh you know, the typical youth pastor Sundays, right? The the one after Christmas, that you know, that you have the ones where you know you have the youth pastor go for whatever reason. So I would do those. And then it was around 2022, around the summer of 2022. Okay, there was a uh a really uh tragic thing that happened to uh one of the uh the families in our church, one of the pastors uh ended up losing his son. And um really shook up our church a lot. Sure. And um and uh because this pastor needed to spend some time, uh rightly so, away from the ministry and being able to grieve well with his wife and family, um, there was a door uh that that opened to help fill the pulpit during that time. And uh because this brother was one of our primary teaching pastors, and so um there was an opportunity to jump in and and teach God's word. And so um out of my willingness to and just my desire to to care for this brother while he was away, I I just stepped in and just said, okay, God use me. Um and that again, that was in the summer of 2022, and so again, I wasn't teaching a ton, it was just a little bit more than I had, and that was kind of the consistent theme at that point, just a little bit more than I was the previous year, a little bit more, a little bit more while you're continuing doing college exactly next gen type ministries, and um and I saw how God was using the preaching of his word to um to to bless his people at Cornerstone and to to shape the hearts of people and by God's grace, just hearing um uh encouragement and affirmations from the congregation of of of seeing the uh teaching gift that God placed upon me uh in that ministry that was becoming more clear uh of people after service, so just saying, you know, it was wonderful, thank you for bringing the word. And again, you don't don't do it for the compliments at all. Um, but it was it was starting to um encourage my own soul of like, okay, I maybe the Lord is doing something else here, uh, far bigger than what I may see him doing. And so again, that's a side note, but it kind of relates to what this one elder was telling me in an elder meeting of, you know, we've seen the call, we've we affirm what God's doing in you, and and and we want uh we want you to stay at at the church beyond just being a youth pastor here. Um we don't know what that looks like, but we uh we earnestly just are encouraging you to stick around and just see what God will do. And uh I remember that night, my wife and I were both in that meeting, and we we had conflicting feelings about that. Of okay, uh I understand, and that was very sweet to hear that. Um, and maybe that was God, God speaking directly to us in that moment, and then looking back, I believe it was. But uh in that moment, we felt, okay, oh man, what do we do? Right. So long story short, lots of prayer, lots of uh lots of going to the Lord, going to his word, lots of conversation between my wife and I. We we we we just said, okay, let's let's just stick it out, at least just for a season and just see what God's doing here. And uh yeah, fast forward a couple years later, um, through various means, uh yeah, I'm in the role that I'm at now at Cornerstone and uh being able to preach God's word.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:29

Uh yeah, let's talk about that for a minute. I mean, obviously I know, but those that are listening don't. Um you guys back in the fall of 25, this past fall, went through a pretty um heavy transition. Yes. So uh let's talk about that. What what was the transition? How did that impact you? I mean, at this point, you know, you had gone from next gen, you were then the assistant pastor. Is that right? Yeah. Assistant associate. Yeah, yeah. Um to the guy that brought you to Cornerstone. Yes. Um you know, and as time went out, you were preaching more and more. Right. Um, you were overseeing different things, and then at some point um you became an elder.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:18

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:19

Winston had been there for a little bit. For a little bit, yes. Um, he was serving in a ministry which uh we've we've had him on and uh been in San Clemenia a long time, and he went through how he came to Cornerstone. So now you guys are serving together a little bit, he becomes an elder. Um so the pieces are moving. Um, but then this transition happened. What what I mean I know because obviously we've chatted, but what was this transition and how did that impact you? How has that impacted the church?

SPEAKER_03 1:22:50

Yes. Um, so without getting too much into the weeds, yeah, uh just to protect the brother that we're referring to. Um yeah, so uh yeah, in the fall, as you mentioned in September, um, there was a transition in in Cornerstone's leadership that um the brother who was serving as uh the I guess a couple roles, but essentially the executive and teaching pastor, um, and for a short season, the interim lead pastor uh following Ron's transition, um, stepped in and led well for the season that God uh had him there. But just over time, as the elders were um just carefully praying through what is the direction God is calling us in as a church, um, how do we stay focused on the the mission of Cornerstone and and who we are and and keeping some of the um I don't know what you call it, maybe the the DNA, if you will, of of what Cornerstone was kind of planted upon, some of the unique qualities that Cornerstone possesses. I know you would know some of those. And so yeah, wanting to stay pure to some of those things and and while also too um seeking a fresh vision of of moving forward as a church, it it became clear that that God placed on each of the other elders hearts of of this transition uh to take place. And so um, yeah, not not easy whatsoever. But um but a transition that that was uh we believe to be needed. And um yeah, uh uh that had a huge impact. It's it's having a big impact uh on our church. And um yeah, it's it uh required both Winston and I to step up in some measure uh to to shoulder some of that extra load from that third pastor we we had on on our staff and and as an elder um to step into some of those roles. And um, you know, you can you can feel ready for it until you know you you're you're in the deep end and you're okay, now you're going, you're going with it. Um, but no, truthfully, it it has been such a um transitional season, but such a blessing uh to see what God has been doing um through this kind of new uh season of a church at Cornerstone. And um I know if you'd ask Winston, he'd say something very similar, but you know, there's nothing nothing fancy that we're trying to do uh as a leadership. We are just uh being faithful to the preaching of God's word, keeping the gospel centered in all that we do as a church, uh regularly observing the Lord's table and and seeing life transformation exemplified through baptism, um, doing these things regularly, giving a healthy diet of of God's word being preached, um, going book to book in scripture and taking our time with it. Um we've already seen these kind of handful of months just what what that looks like, what what transformation that looks like in the life of the church. And so um just seeing people hungry for God's word every week, excited. Um for instance, we're going through the book of Romans right now and and we're uh going on week four, uh, and we're in Romans 1 still, and and uh, I made a couple jokes with the congregation of of some prominent pastors who've gone through uh nearly decades in in the book of Romans, and kind of almost as a joke of like, you know, we won't do that, you know. Yeah but we'll take our time. And yep. And the response was so interesting. People were like, you know, I know you were joking, but but let's take our time. I'm excited for it. People people were hungry, and so that's been a really cool response. People just just want the word. They they they they want Christ, they want us to point them to Christ every week, and so that's that's what we seek to do.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:22

You don't rush through a steak dinner. No, therefore, let's not rush through the word of God, especially something like Romans, where it's so where each verse could be a sermon in itself.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:34

Oh, absolutely. Yeah, the first the first week I did Romans 1-1. That's it. That's like let's just look at the testimony of Paul together. That's it.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:42

So uh now that we're getting towards the end here, um you know, so that I mean you're talking in a manner of five years. Uh you went from youth pastor to now co-pastoring the church. Yeah. That that's heavy. Yeah, not how I mean now that I mean I imagine that's been on your mind. Sure. I mean, is that surreal? Is that like what's yeah, um in some ways, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:14

I mean, it's not, I guess you're stereotypical cookie cutter kind of route to a lead pastor whatsoever. Um, you know, you you you start out in your whether it's children's or youth, and then you maybe go into a a college, then maybe your family, and then you're maybe associate, and then maybe teaching. You know, there's sometimes the steps, you know, stereotypical steps you see um in pastoral ministry. This has not been that whatsoever, but you know, I've I've been even just encouraged looking through scripture and seeing the men whom God chose to uh to lead his people. It's like there's no formula, there's no um crash course on uh on that. It's not uh, you know, I have sovereignly called you, and you're going to to Obey my command, you're going to feed my sheep, you know? And so uh trying to remember that. Um, like okay, this is this is a unique context I'm in, but uh that doesn't mean it's a wrong context whatsoever. This is uh there's actually a lot of very biblical things that are happening here of stepping into the unknown in some ways. 100 Okay, God, just just use me. Palms open wide. Um, Lord have your way. And so um, yeah, it in some ways it is surreal, and in other ways it's it's kind of what you see throughout scripture. Uh, you know, men being appointed to a task that I'm sure at the time felt super, you know, uh underqualified for. And uh so I can relate to that in some in some ways, but I uh I trust the um the work that God's done in my life and um by his grace, some of the training I've received, whether that's been through um Bible college, then when I went back to seminary, and um and just even studying uh so many prominent faithful Bible preaching pastors that are out there, um, just studying what they do, um, studying the way they communicate God's word and just soaking it up like a sponge of like, okay, God has used many faithful men uh to a task that I'm sure feels uh above the pay grade. And uh, but they remain faithful. And so uh taking heart in that of like, okay, God has used these men. Um I believe God's using me right now. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:25

Yeah. So uh last question is you know, so you've you've been pretty much full-time ministry for a little over five years now. Um you know, before that, volunteer did uh internship, went through um Christian ministries at Timothy Two Colleges. Uh for those that are, as it talks about in First Timothy three, those that are aspiring to the role, um you know, that 18, 19, 20 year old, um what piece of guidance, advice, counsel would you offer them? That's a great question. What are things maybe that you wish you would have known?

SPEAKER_03 1:30:12

Right. Yeah. Um, how much time do we have here? Uh I mean, I'd say a few things, but um I'd say from a pastoral leadership side, I would say um be true to who God has called you to be as a leader. Um there are some amazing men whom God has used throughout church history, and there is some amazing preachers in our day today. Um you know, you're you are not John Piper, you are not John MacArthur, you know, you're not RC Sproul, um, but you are whom God has called you to be as a minister of his word and to care for his people. Be authentic, be who you are, be who God has has uh commissioned you to be, right? Um and don't don't try to um I word this, don't don't try to to be another pastor, don't try to be another preacher, be whom God has called you to be to your flock. That's good. Um and I also say too, uh trust in God's sovereignty. Truthfully, trust that God is in control. I I know it's it's such a at times cliche Christianese thing that we say. God is in control, but really trust that God is sovereign. Like really believe it in your heart that God is going to do what he wants to do with your life and with your ministry. Um, and so if you are pursuing this call of ministry, trust that he's going to lead you where he sees fit for your life. Um, and even if that's uncomfortable for you, true uh, you know, it probably is going to be uncomfortable at times. Um trust that he knows best. And he's working all of these things out for your good and for his glory. And so remember that. Um, even when you're in uh some of the uh the valleys or you know, some of the weeds of ministry and you're you're kind of looking up, how do I get out of this thing? Remember that God is in control and he'll he'll lead you where he wants.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:12

So that's right. Yeah. That's good stuff. Um thank you so much for sharing about the path that the Lord has brought you on and is continuing to put you on. Appreciate it, bro. Um, it has been wonderful you sharing this. It's been able to it's been fun to watch uh because I've been able to watch both close and far. Sure, sure. Um, and uh um Cornerstone is a special church in a special town. And so um thank you so much. And for those that are listening, please uh hear Jake's words. Uh hear the road that he's been on, take uh the joys and also take the things that are grieving. Guys, ministry is not a walk in the park. Um, it is it is something that you truly need to know that this is what God has created for you to do, otherwise, you will cause damage to yourself and to Christ's bride, which I don't think any of us want. And so before you step into this, make sure that you are called um and rely on the Lord, as Jake was saying. So uh thank you for tuning in for another episode. We'll catch you next time.