Aspire Ministries Podcast
Have you ever wanted to sit down with a pastor and hear their story? This podcast is a collection of Pastor's stories directed towards aspiring Pastors to lead, guide and address the truth of Pastoral work and life.
Aspire Ministries Podcast
Morgan Meader-"A Shepherd's Journey"
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In this episode I have the pleasure to share about the journey the Lord has taken me on throughout my Pastoral vocation.
My dear friend Anthony sits down to ask the who, what, when, where and why questions that has lead to the now.
Welcome back to the Spire Ministries Podcast. This is Oregon. So glad you're joining us for another great episode. We have a special episode for you today. I'm gonna hand it off to my buddy Anthony that I've known for quite some time. So he's gonna take over the uh interview um for this special episode.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I I don't know why you trusted me with this, but here I am. Uh my name's Anthony Morgan and I go back, I think 2014 is when we were working at the city um a year out of graduation for me, and I don't even know what was going on for you. I know you you probably were doing a lot running around.
SPEAKER_00There is a lot of stuff going on.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So uh so yeah, no, I we're we're currently neighbors. I I walked over here just to uh be able to spend this special time. It's it's kind of interesting where you know this is kind of an honor to dive into the man behind the mic, right? Morgan Beater. And uh we get to peel back the ending of your time in ministry and and how it's impacted you to even get onto this podcast. So um I would love to just start there. You probably mentioned this a bunch of times, but you know, what inspired you to even kick this off, this whole ministry to to begin with?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean that goes back to, and we'll definitely dive into this a little bit more in detail, but this this really came about, the heart of it came about from um being how I was brought up in ministry, how I was trained up, um, and the plethora of mentors and leaders that I had, um, and wanting to give that experience and those that same level of guidance in a way uh that I had to those that are coming up in ministry, those that are aspiring to the role as it talks about in First Timothy three. Um, we've all had a level of mentorship or leadership in our life. And there's one, two, or three, especially in ministry, there's always somebody, but um in this way with podcasts, it's so broad and you can do so much with it. And so to get as many are willing to sit down with me and have a conversation, uh, that can be in the ears and minds and hearts of those willing to listen and gain from the inside of these seasoned pastors and ministry leaders. And that the goal is to have the seasoned pastors and ministry leaders hindsight be the next generation's foresight.
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah, no, absolutely. I remember uh, you know, even for myself, where it's like, hey, I I want to kind of get into uh youth ministry, or hey, what would it be like getting behind the pulpit? Um, and you you've had such a broad experience, which we'll definitely dive in today. But um, you know, I'm sure I wasn't the only one asking you, hey Morgan, can I can I pick your brain about this? And I'm sure other uh just ministers, pastors, uh people that are just serving, um, have gotten those requests from people that are just ready to take that next step, but just don't know, you know, where to go, right? They're just looking for that next uh that person that's been there and done that. And I think this is a great opportunity that you've put together. So um, but I would love to go all the way to the beginning. E even oh boy, further back from ministry. Um, did so where did you grow up originally here down in St. Clomenny, uh Dana Point area? Or um, yeah, where where did you you and your family kind of start off?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, born and raised here in St. Clemey. Um, so uh always been here. Um I've I've traveled enough. My parents valued travel at an early age. So I've traveled um around a lot, um, but this has always been home, always will be home. Um until the Lord, you know, if he decides to move us, great. But uh for now this is home. And so for the past 35 years, this has been home.
SPEAKER_02Oh wow. Okay. Any like just short stints, like doing any moves with family at all, or you literally just been here?
SPEAKER_00Uh I mean, I've I mean I've had uh the furthest north that I've lived is Laguna Nigel. Um that's it. Yeah. I mean, yeah, yeah. Uh I maybe a couple months somewhere else, but uh, you know, living wise, it's that's the furthest north is Laguna Nigel.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no, I I can I always remember growing up in high school, it was always uh there's the people that just stick around, or there's those that like, oh, I'm gonna go up to Washington or Oregon or wherever they're called, and all of a sudden they come back. Yeah, like this is just uh it's so hard to escape this beautiful weather, great people, great community and culture. Um it it's it's really hard to beat. The only part that beats us down is the price. Yes, it costs a lot to live here. Yes, it does. Um, but no, I I I think you know, with you growing up here, I think you have a a different perspective that a lot of people uh might not be able to see in other areas because I mean uh correct me if I'm wrong, there is a lot of churches down here in Southern California.
SPEAKER_00It's like Starbucks, it's church land down here, yeah. Uh and that that's a good thing in the sense of and I remember I used to be super against church planning in Orange County. Um, because I thought there's plenty of churches here, just go to one of them. Why do we need another church plant? But then I can't remember who told me this. Um but a f one of my fri I don't know who it was. That's gonna bother me now. Um, but he said, Morgan, but what if by the move of God, by the move of the spirit, if everyone in San Clumini decided to go to church, would all the church buildings be able to house them? Answer is no. And so that reshaped my thinking a little bit on that. So uh, but yeah, we have lots of lots of churches here. Yeah, lots of churches.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I didn't think about that. Yeah, I mean, if everyone decided, you know what, I'm gonna take this Sunday, you know, or Easter, I'm gonna find out what what this Jesus guy's about, you know, or Christmas, you know, I know there's Santa, but there's somebody that's been born on this day, or you know, that's been born that's important. So no, that's that's that's a really good insight. I never thought about that in that way. So you I I think I I I'm probably gonna be next to you on this, but I won't be so harsh and judgmental on the next planted one. Yeah. You know, the next one that pops up, right? But um, that's really cool. Did you so growing up here, um were was your home uh particularly, hey, like were the church goers or were you guys just at home? Um, or did you even grow up in uh a believing house household?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so my mom was a rock of faith. Uh she from the time we were born, I have it in my son's room now, but um from uh there's a passage in First Samuel from uh um Hannah's prayer about um about having her son, and it's a framed picture of the verse. And in my room all the years growing up, that was in my in my room, and so uh my mom all she wanted to be in her life was a mom. And so uh and and follow the Lord, and so she raised us with the word, she raised us in church. Uh, she is a rock of faith, taught us how to pray. Um I have her Bible in here. Um and so church was a regular thing. She sang in the choir, uh, especially during Christmas time. Um so church was a regular thing, and uh she was the one the first point of contact for spiritual truth in the house for sure.
SPEAKER_02Where did she like get her faith, or yeah, what's kind of her background behind it?
SPEAKER_00Uh her background, so I mean, my grandparents kind of went to church, kind of not, you know, somewhat, uh, but she really got saved um in the eighties and she came out of more of the Pentecostal charismatic movement. Okay. Uh, big time. Um, so uh, you know, dancing and speaking in tongues and was that like the Greg uh Greg Laurie era, uh like in the Lagoon Laguna area.
SPEAKER_02No, that's that's the uh the Jesus movement, yeah, the hippie movement.
SPEAKER_00No, no, she got saved uh in the eighties. Okay. Yeah, that the Jesus movement took place in the late 60s and 70s. Okay. Yeah, not so much in the eighties. That was kind of done. That movement kind of was solidified by then. I gotcha. Uh she sh that was more in the eighties. Okay. Yeah. I think it was at the time her uh her sister-in-law at the time uh invited her to church. Um, I think that's how the story went. Um but yeah, she was just invited and the Lord saved her. Isn't that true? And she was involved in church ever since. Isn't that crazy? And it's she had the same Bible. Right. Only one in her entire life. Wow. So um that has that was cool as I grew up um reading the notes from even way back then of what she was praying for and learning. Wow. It's really cool.
SPEAKER_02Almost kind of like seeing uh the journey within the pages.
SPEAKER_00Exactly, exactly. You see where she was, and it's kind of similar to like a journal, right? Right. Um and so now that I have it, and from time to time I'll uh reach for it and I'll look it over and whatnot. And so um because I can see you know what uh it was you know, she was just a little older than I am now when she got saved. And so I'm nearing that point in life where oh, she was my age, and I can see what she was praying through at my age and whatnot. And so since getting my mom's Bible um and having it here, um I have encouraged people to write in their Bibles, write notes because one day your kids will read that.
SPEAKER_02Right. Yeah, that impacts so much bigger than most people can even imagine, you know. And for those that maybe are believers, where it's like, oh yeah, you know, I have my study Bible, I have uh, you know, just the first Bible I had, or I had another one that was given out. So you you have maybe the most Bibles ever uh, you know, in a household, but in reality, it's you know, those family Bibles I can give uh generationally, and um again, hearing your mom being such a foundation that the Lord has built uh for your family and future generations for your son, um what a blessing it is that you know she's a part of that legacy that Jesus has been continuing through through your your household. So what a huge just you know uh blessing it is to have that kind of uh faith and strength. So with her, you know, again laying the groundwork for you, were you somebody that was like I'm gonna take it head on and and keep it going, or were you somebody that was maybe a little rebellious, or you know, what was that defining moment of you know what, I'm I'm with it versus uh maybe I don't know, still gotta figure this out.
SPEAKER_00I was the typical firstborn where I kind of went along with it. Um it's usually the secondborn that is rebellious. Yeah uh and so I went along with it, I knew church was important um growing up. Um we attended a thriving active church, um, lots of families, and so um uh I served with my mom in the children's ministry, being her little assistant, you know. Um but uh I didn't make my faith my own until seventh grade.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00That's where the Lord really grabbed me.
SPEAKER_02How how could you define that? I mean, being at seven, I mean that that sounds pretty amazing, but look, what was the determining factor where you're like, you know what?
SPEAKER_00Um yeah, we we had so in seventh grade, just probably the year before that, we had changed churches. Um I started attending youth group. Now I'm in middle school, and you know, that was something very different and new. Um for me, attending youth group, going from like, you know, Sunday school to a youth group is very and and it's people I didn't know. So it took me a while to break into it. Um a lot of them already knew each other. Um and so it took me a little bit. I was a little shy. But then one Wednesday night, typical youth group night, right? The youth pastor, I'm gonna uh name drop him Justin Hepner. Uh he's still pastoring down in, I think, the Vista area. Um he preached a sermon. Sorry, buddy, I have no idea what you preached that night. Uh but the Lord grabbed a hold of me. It it it felt like truly like a grabbing of your shirt and pulling. And I had no idea what this was. No idea. And um I I wrestled with like what you you know, you try to shake it off, like it just feels uncomfortable or whatever. Right. And it wasn't until I think it was two days later, where I just knelt down in my bathroom and gave my life to the Lord right then and there. Wow. And that's when I attribute my me making my faith my own, that that is when the Lord grabbed a hold of me. Yeah. And saved me.
SPEAKER_02That's crazy. I mean, it sounds like you're you may be even a little sensitive to um just the the spirit because I know for some it can be a little different. Uh I know for like my wife, um, she definitely feels uh these I don't know, just like she says, yeah, she can hear yeses and no's and not yet from the spirit. And for me, I'm more you know, I can like see things play out where it's like, okay, God, I can see your working right there. But no, no physical yes, no, maybe like sure. Um but that's wild to think like again, you having that that compelling feeling like there's something different here that I'm not just going along with, but I I want to know more. Yeah. Right? Because our our journey is never just it begins and it's the end all be all, you know, happily ever after. We we need to get to know the Lord and continue to pursue him and then baptism, other things that go along with that. So I know you name dropped uh your youth pastor. Any other figures just growing up that really made an impact on you?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, that church um that we were at at that time, uh, again, lots of families and so um great pastors at the church. Caleb Luke uh eventually became my youth pastor, not long after that. Um, and he was my youth pastor all the way through. Um, he's known me since seventh grade. Uh so um Ellis Pittman, who recently passed away, well done, good and faithful servant. He was a uh, I mentioned him on this podcast before, but he was an old school Southern Baptist dude. But he would, he was one of those true shepherds that would welcome people to church at the front of the building. For all of us young men, he would shake our hands and he had these just big, thick hands, and he would shake our hands, squeeze, and say, Is that all you got, kid? You know, that type of thing. And we were stoked. Anytime that Ellis was coming to preach in youth group, we were stoked because he took the time to know us, he took the time to actually know our name. He wasn't just the old fart pastor, like he he cared, right? And it showed. We were all stoked. And even today, when I get together with friends from that youth group, anytime Ellis is brought up, smiles. We we loved Ellis, and then you had Corey Melia, who is still with us, and uh just recently got lunch with him. He's still here in San Clemente, great pastor, theologically sound, cared for people, counseled people, um, so well, served the church very well. Uh, great respect for him. And so um, at that time in my adolescence, growing up, those three in particular really had a great impression on me.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah. And when you're kind of growing up, because I know obviously we'll get you know into ministry here shortly, but you know, what uh what was kind of the journey through um the churches you you got to kind of grow up in here in San Clemene? Um, and then I would love to hear kind of that guiding, like, hey, you know what, maybe I do want to get into ministry, or maybe ministry was never on your heart. I don't know. Yeah. You tell me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so you know, from the time that I, you know, the Lord grabbed me and saved me, from that point forward, quite literally, I never left youth group. I was always involved in church. Um youth group, would go on youth group trips, always was around church events, uh, would serve, was there. Just that became my friendships, it became everything. Um it was probably the biggest piece of my life um growing up. Um as far as a career and what I wanted to do after graduating high school and that tort type of thing, um, I always wanted to go towards um more mechanic type stuff. Um, in high school, got involved in the auto academy at St. Clinian High School, which is a wonderful program. Still around. Oh, yeah. Uh represent right here. That's right. Yeah, it's a wonderful program. I encourage anybody to that's interested in that field to go for it. Um, and I really wanted to go and pursue being a hot rod builder. Um, that's what I wanted to go do. Custom car, that type of thing. Um, and I had gotten into uh UTI, Universal Technical Institute out in Ranch Cucamonga. Um and but I needed a place to live. And so that was a piece that I still needed to figure out. Um, but my yeah, that was a trajectory that I worked very hard to do. Um, that I really wanted to go down. Uh I I love working with my hands, always have my grandfather instilled that in me from a very young age. He had his own shop in his garage. Um, so there's always a project that he's working with me on. And so I thought this was it. Great, all right, this is what we're doing. I got accepted, we're good. And then um January of 2010, um I go on the youth group's uh annual winter trip. And that year we had partnered with another church to go, and we're going to Utah. So epic snow, snowboarding, all right. Yeah. Um and that trip changed my trajectory. Um same sort of thing where it was a youth pastor from the other church um had been preaching, and it was as if the Lord took my compass that I had, like, okay, I'm going this way, and he just kind of no you're going a different direction. I don't know. Now I always had an interest in theology.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_00Always had an interest, and I always thought if I ever go to college. I want to study theology. I want to study the Bible. But I'm not doing that. I'm going to tech school, right? Right. So it's fine. But the spirit definitely turned my focus, my heart towards a different direction. And again, I fought it. I thought, no, I've worked so hard for this. I don't want to go down this route now. And so I remember meeting with my youth pastor and said, what do I do with this? And you know, and he said, you know, tech school will always be there. Go to maybe some sort of Bible school or whatever. See what you think. And so, you know, I I kept having those type of conversations and and um through my last semester of high school. And towards the end of high school, I had completely changed direction where I thought, actually, you know what? I want to be a Bible teacher at like a high school. Oh, wow. Um, primarily apologetics. Um, the church we attended at the time met at a school. The church was there prior, but now there was a private school there. And a very well-known Bible teacher was there. His name is Sean McDowell. Yep. Um, and uh I got to sit in a couple times in his apologetics classes. He would come to youth group and do apologetics lessons, and I thought this was the rattest thing. Yeah. So I dove headfirst into apologetics, and I thought, oh man, I want to mirror what he's done. I want to do what he's done. Um be a Bible and apologetics teacher at a private school.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_00And so I completely changed trajectory by the time I graduated high school of okay, I'm gonna go to saddleback, then I will go to some sort of Christian university, get my degree, do that. Right. So completely different.
SPEAKER_02Wow. That's I'm curious too, because it it sounds like uh the Lord was just putting so many different um people in your life and almost kind of marinating you for this type of uh heart posture, right? Because I it feels like high school, you're just crushing it, right? Having fun in auto, having you know, this dream of, you know, I want to work on cars, and but still being completely tied to uh the church and ministry and and what that looks like. And then you know, you the floodgates open to wow, what does it look like to actually study it? Um and defend the faith, and how much more um I don't know, it's almost like uh uh uh like taste or color to life as a whole when you get to know the Lord. And and I'm sure a lot of people can understand, like, you know, prior to Lord, it it just feels like this empty void. Um, but now it's like, oh man, I get to actually fall in love and and uh pursue and build this relationship in such a different way. Yeah. Um, so it's hard to beat that here for any worldly thing. Um, but it's crazy enough to where you basically had everything lined up except for living, and then it's almost like 180, like, no, you're going the other way.
SPEAKER_00But you know, here's the thing is me I this um having leaders around you pointing stuff out and guiding you in the church to then help raise you up, this is how historically the church was. Right. The church raised up its own leaders. And so my story in that uh unfortunately now is more unique, but you look back at church history, it's not. Right. This is how things used to be. Um, and I think this is where the church needs to get back to is the leadership, the current leadership of the church needs to look and say, what young men do we see?
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And then guide them, pour into them, make yourself available to them.
SPEAKER_02Right. Yeah. No, I think you're you hit it spot on, you know, just that and and today's day and age of you know uh church philosophy, which I I couldn't even say I I I you know I'm anywhere near to knowing like what it looks like in other churches. Yeah, I I I haven't really gone out to see or visit new ones, but uh I would say it is rare, like you're saying, like, hey, you know what? We're gonna have this opportunity to pour into other uh potential leaders in the church and see if they have that heart for leadership, because as we all know, like if you have an old business and you know the old man's ready to retire, who's gonna take it on? Is it an apprentice? Is it uh, you know, a family member that they've been grooming? Um, if they want that business to continue. And just like with church, it's like, you know, this this church is here, and when the, you know, whether it's uh a senior pastor or uh other potential pastors that are ready to pass that baton off, you know, I'm sure it's not as clear cut as you'd think or you'd assume. Right. Um, or even to where you need to just hire out to someone that's out there, right? Right. Um, so I'm sure that's really unique. And I'm curious for you, what so for ministry, how did you get involved? Like how did how did you make that transition to okay, I kind of want to pursue this academically, but how did you get into the ministry part of it?
SPEAKER_00So upon graduation, I kind of had that, okay, that's the route I'm gonna take. And that summer, I remember I was sitting at Bravo Burger there in San Juan.
SPEAKER_02Were you having a burger?
SPEAKER_00I think probably. I was probably having a burger. Or breed them. That's hard. It's either Buredom or a burger. Yeah. Uh and I remember sitting there and this hot rod, funky looking hot rod just zooms by. Oh no. And my Caleb, I think it was Caleb, told me that dude's a pastor. I said, wait, what? Um, yeah, they meet over there and he told me all about it. Um, it's called the Hot Rod Church for Sinners. And um and oh my dude, I gotta change. Yeah, come on. Okay. So now I'd grown up in a Southern Baptist church, which is a particular flavor. Yes. This church, Hot Rod Church for Sinners, met in a restaurant/slash bar. Oh uh, Santoras Hot Wings and Mission VO. Nice. Um, literally the stage folds out of the wall, the whole thing. They would meet early in the morning on Sundays before opening. And so when football season came around, we always had to push it back an hour. Yeah. Because football season and everything. And I kid you not, the parking lot looked like a hot rod show, car show every Sunday. They would do rockabilly worship music, and it was a crowd every Sunday, and I just thought this was the trippiest thing. I'm like, what? What is this? And I started attending. I started attending. I'm like, this is great. Um, but then on Wednesdays, I started serving in the youth group I grew up in. Okay. Uh, with my youth pastor and whatnot. And so um that was church life for that season for a handful of months. That's what I was doing. And it taught me that church doesn't always have to look the same, and that there's different versions of how to do things. I mean, Brian, who is the pastor of the hot rod church, he uh would preach with his eyes closed.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_00He was scared, he was nervous to now I won't say scared, he he was nervous to publicly public speaking.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_00But he knew there was a calling, and he knew these people needed the word, and so that trumped his nervousness, and so he would get up there and he would preach with his eyes closed, look down his notes, and then do it again. You know, that's how it did. Yeah, I just saw devotion. I saw these people that were that loved hot rotting and rockabilly and that whole culture, but loved the Lord, and they and Brian knew his people, yeah, loved his people, and served his people. Wow, and it was wonderful, and what a trip. And this was I I still see Brian from time to time. Yeah. Um, and it just was an eye-opening experience of church doesn't always have to look the same everywhere. Right. This is grassroots, this is awesome. Yeah, and so um, so then um that lasted. I I started I was there from about June of 2010. So serving on Wednesdays in the youth group, Wednesday nights, attending Hot Rod Church on Sundays, that went from about June of 2010 to December of 2010. So about six months. Um and the reason being is so that first semester, that fall semester, I'm taking general ed courses, I'm doing that at Sidleback. Um and but November of 2010, uh Youth Pastor gets all of those leaders together and said, Hey, want to make you all aware, um, I'm stepping down.
SPEAKER_03Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_00Which was a huge hit. Um I had never known that church without him. He'd been a part of my life since seventh grade. Um that was a big hit. And so then, you know, obviously the church goes into search mode of who's gonna be youth pastor and whatnot, and you know, I start praying. Okay, do I continue serving a youth group? Um, do I quit going on Sundays to the Hot Rod Church and come back here? Like, what do I do?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00You know, and so I just start praying for that. And I after a little bit, I have this overwhelming sense of I need to step into that role.
SPEAKER_03Alright.
SPEAKER_00And it's I'm the worst person on paper to do this. I've never preached before, I've never led a youth group before, I don't know what I'm doing. Right. But I have this overwhelming sense of like this pushing of go. Okay, so I go to the pastor of the church and I tell him just that. And he says, Okay, come up with a sermon. How in the heck do I do that? And so um I one Wednesday night, I get there early and I tell my youth pastor, I tell Caleb exactly that. And he looks at me with this like deer in the headlights look. Okay. And and gives me a 20-minute crash course on how to preach. Nice. We pick a passage and gives me a 20-minute crash course. Okay. Right. Um better than nothing. Right. And that was his last youth group. Wow. And and so I I write a sermon. I I think I met up with Caleb one time after that just to kind of go over it. And then I bring it to the pastor of the church, and he says, Okay. And so I take over the junior high.
SPEAKER_01Oh, wow.
SPEAKER_00And at the time I was 19 years old. Something I conveniently forgot somehow just didn't click in my mind. The junior high was mainly junior high girls. And so it's like, okay, what 19-year-old dude, what do they know about junior high girls? Hopefully not much.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_00But I'm like, how do I, how do I, how do I reach these how do I reach these kids? You know, there's a few boys in there, but it's mainly girls. And so December 2010, I officially took over the junior high. Now, again, people are saying, so do you want to be a pastor? And I kept saying, no, no, no, no. I'm doing this to fill in. Right. You know, this will help me, you know, learn how to teach and everything. But at that point, no. I definitely don't want this. I had no desire to be a pastor at that point.
SPEAKER_03Why?
SPEAKER_00The responsibility. Shepherding souls, preaching the word of God. I mean, read the book of James. It talks about how you're going to be judged harsher. Um, I didn't want that responsibility of pastoring.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_00Um, it's a major responsibility. And you read through script, you read Old Testament, New Testament. It speaks about those that are charged to spiritually lead people, that if you do a bad job, that if you lead people astray, the judgment that's gonna be leveled on you is severe. I didn't want that responsibility. I nope, leave that to somebody else.
SPEAKER_0219, I'm sure. Yeah. Absolutely not.
SPEAKER_00So I knew I I read the warnings in scripture and I wanted nothing to do with that. Right. Um and so I just thought, you know what? I'll I'll serve the church I grew up in. Yeah. I'll I'll do this and um be a placeholder.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_00Um and February of 2011, so after a couple months, um, I remember I had this kind of like L-shaped desk in the room, and I would go to the junior high room to usually write out my sermons. And I would handwrite my sermons at the time. And I remember we had just gone on a winter trip with the with the kids. Great trip. Loved it. I had a great time. And I finished writing my sermon, I look up at the room, empty room, and I said, This is what the Lord has called me to do. The shepherds are two shepherds. And it almost was like a gentle relief of realizing where the Lord has always been guiding me to this. Like, okay, now I understand why the Lord has directed me this way.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_00And so then it I so I started Yeah, I mean, that was the that was the point. It was February 2011 when I finally realized, okay, I'm I'm called the shepherd people.
SPEAKER_02Right. And uh and it's so interesting too, because some people might think, hey, you know what, I need to go uh get this education or I need to do XYZ. Um, but I I'm sure there's many stories that you've also, you know, talked with other people about it was never some picture perfect moment to be a ministry. No, you know, it's a calling, you know, it's that uh desire, uh, it could be a mixture of things and timing, you know, the Lord's gonna put you in the right place at the right time for the people that He's called you to serve in whatever way, right? Right. Um, just like you said with uh, you know, that that uh that church for the hot rods and just how amazing and how beautiful again it doesn't matter what you look like, doesn't matter, you know, um how different you are, the Lord loves you and He wants you to know Him in an intimate way. And if that's through Hot Rods, great, you know, or if it's with the middle school 19, you know, you're a 19-year-old trying to help these girls out, figure who the Lord is, yeah, God bless you. Because uh you probably needed, you know, all all the help that you could get, but you you did what you could, you know, with what God gave you. Yep. Um so you know, with that pursuit of okay, I am in the right place where I need to be. Um, and I know you said uh uh but I know the destination is not being a pastor, you know, because that's that's where I I don't want to be. Um how how did you kind of navigate of how how do you make this, you know, if I want to start a family, I want to have some kind of career living in Orange County, you know, being a unfortunately a youth pastor is not typically the the the title that can get you housing, can get you whatever, you know, in this area. So maybe speak to that. Like how how how did you make that a re you know, in that time, what were you thinking?
SPEAKER_00Um I that wasn't on my mind. It was now the thing that was probably most on my mind. There was a there was a couple things. I mean, A, now pursuing I I was very ignorant. I mean, I was 19, very ignorant of what even the past for life looked like.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_00Um, and and even at that point, what it took to live in Orange County, right? I was very naive. Um, so that wasn't even on my mind. Yeah. I think what was more on my mind is how do I do this? As far as what do I do now? Um, that was more on my mind. Is okay, I I'm I the Lord's clearly calling me to this. What now? That that was more pressing on my mind. Okay. Um than anything else.
SPEAKER_02Did did he answer?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, you know, so I mean, again, just like anything else, whenever you're at a crossroads like that, or now you settle on something, but now you want to learn the how-tos, sure, go to people that you trust. And so that's what I did is I went to Caleb. Yeah, um, Caleb played a major role. I did bring him up, but at that point in time in my life, he played a major role. Um, and so him and I would get together and review my sermons before I'd preach. He was the first one that told me, because he knew I didn't like reading. Yeah, I hated it. Um, hated reading because I'm like, why do I want to sit somewhere and read versus I could go do something active, um, be outside or whatever. And so, but he told he was very, very honest with me and said, You need to become a reader. You have to become a reader. And he he was the one that impressed on me how to study and what to focus on. Then he said, the three most important things context, context, context, and studying the Bible. You know, he gave me the foundational things. Um, you know, he was the one that recommended my first two books. Um, What is the gospel? A tiny little black book that I have in here, and then Systematic Theology by Wayne Grutham. Um, those were the first two books that I had, and it was because of him. He reckoned and as time went on, he would recommend others. And so um that was what I initially did with it. Okay. Was I would probably once a week, maybe twice, we would meet, usually at like Starbucks or something.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Yeah. So uh in that in that transition of okay, you now you're in this new role. Um, was it just the most beautiful thing where you st you stayed around and things worked out and it was peachy, or did God have other uh plans for the church? Or, you know, as you said, it was like a temporary role.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, at the time, you know, I still was uh, you know, going to saddleback and doing the gen ed thing and whatnot. Um, and now it shifted from where that was gonna take me, whether you know, now from a teacher to pastoral. Right. Um and so, but as I was serving, unfortunately, with the pastor that was in place at that church at the time. Things started to come to light. And um uh the guy that I was serving with uh in the high I was doing junior high, he was doing high school. He had been hired to be the high school pastor at a church just down the street, which is where um my family originally was early in my life, very early in my life. Okay, just down the street. Um Caleb was hanging out at that church. Um, so I saw a lot of friends start attending that church down the street in San Juan, and but I was being faithful to where I was, yeah. But more and more things started to come to light of what's going on. I remember three different men at three different times told me what was kind of going on, and I thought, okay, and I all three men I trusted very much. Um there were um illegal things that came to light, unfortunately, just shady things um in pursuit of power, pursuit of money, no variety, all that type of stuff. And so um I remember being Southern Baptist, it is members' vote, and I remember we had a members or annual members' meeting, and I knew going into it that the pastor is gonna get called out on certain things. And you could cut the tension in them in the room.
SPEAKER_03Oh, for sure.
SPEAKER_00I'll never forget that meeting. And going into it, I had in my mind, okay, if X happens, I'm gonna stay. If Y happens, I'm gonna leave. The meeting happened and it was fiery. Um it was a lot uh to take in. And so coming out of that meeting, it it lasted for a while, and there was a lot of things said, a lot of accusations thrown out um about finances, about how certain things were handled. Um pastors are accountable to the people they serve.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And this pastor did not want to be accountable. Um, he wanted to be a king, sure, not a shepherd. And those are two very different things, and it's very important for a pastor to understand the difference. Uh, you are not kings over a kingdom, you are not, you are not, this is not Old Testament, right? Uh, you are a shepherd uh called to serve. Right. Um, those that eventually think they become kings are the ones that eventually the God what God did to Saul will happen to you. Right. And I have seen that time and time again. Wow. Um so um I'm curious before you go further, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Why do you feel like or or maybe you you see it in the Bible or not, but why like in terms of the church and people that have that heart to serve and are just trying to listen and follow the Lord, how does it that some can kind of slip through the cracks where it's just like this person is kind of like perverting what is going on, uh like you were saying, wanting power, wanting to do things that are corrupt, because obviously nothing's perfect, right? We're living this worldly sinful life that no one can escape that sin. Yeah. Thankfully, the only opportunity, and and then obviously we talk about it daily, Jesus is the ultimate, you know, covering, you know, and and so we need to continue to lean on him and what we're doing. But why does God put those kind of people in power? Do you feel like?
SPEAKER_00Um Well, I mean, that goes back to the question of the problem of evil and and why does God allow certain things? Sure. I mean, we've seen, unfortunately, even in mainline Christianity, we see a lot of notable pastors um get uh uh um uh what do you call it? Uh disqualified.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00Why would God allow this?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And I mean, this goes back to free will, how much free will do we have, like all this stuff. You know, um at the end of the day, when you get into a seat where there is a level of power you do have when you're in front of a crowd, in front of a people, and you're speaking at a stage. If you're not careful, that will get to you.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, it will. Um, you have to be held accountable. Yeah, you have to have somebody in your life, at least one, um, that is your ground that will take you down a peg in love.
SPEAKER_02Um and no one's like, you know, hey, temptation is gonna come for everyone or or testing of the Lord, just say, hey, like, right, are you gonna follow me or are you gonna follow your own way? Right. And I'm sure in the church too, that's just it's just hard. It's hard to see because we we all want to see uh our you know our communities thrive and continue to just you know worship, follow the Lord, serve others. Um and we all want it to be, you know, uh heaven on earth, right? Um, but it it just it gets you know it is just tough. Like you said, you you went through something very hard, and I'm sure it shaped you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it was I I saw that was my first experience of church politics, of what the destructiveness of sin within the church. Yeah. Um yeah, and it was blatant, and there were some people that were just blind to it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00That I saw that too, of just them not wanting to hold this pastor accountable for some reason.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And um, so I remember coming out of the meeting, not much happened. So I said, alright, Lord, what do I do here? What do I do? And I remember going to bed praying, Lord, what do I do? What do I do? And um waking up the next morning, and before you even like really have woken up, you just kind of open your eyes. I had this overwhelming sense, you need to leave.
SPEAKER_03Oh wow.
SPEAKER_00Like, your time is over. And I rolled out of bed, got down on my knees and prayed, and it swole all inside of me. Like, yeah, you need to leave. Which was very hard to come to terms with because these little girls, these inner high girls, had become little sisters to me. Right. This is the church I had been at for seven something years, you know, long time, a lot of history. And so this would have been the first time that I ever chose to leave something. That was very hard. Yeah. Um but I knew what the Lord was leading me to do. And so I came to the pastor and said, Hey, it's my time to go. And so I think I lasted another month. Um told the kids. It was really hard telling the kids. It was a lot of tears and whatnot. It was very hard. Um But the Lord did have something much better in store for me. I gotcha.
SPEAKER_02Um was it did you know at that time or you kind of just I had no clue.
SPEAKER_00No way. I I I had no idea. Yeah, what was next what was in store next. Wow. Um, but it was truly the Lord doing it because of what came next. Um I I had no idea what what was next. I stepped out of that role for the first time in my life. You could say I was churchless. I had no church. So now I for the first time in my adult life, um, at 20 years old, almost 20 years old, something like that, just turned 20, something like that. I'm looking for a church.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But I had this. Strange for you, you know. Very strange. Right. Wait a minute, I was raised in the like right now. I kind of have choice, and just like what we talked about earlier, there's so many. Yeah. It's like, okay. So I remember from there. I I visited a friend's church here in San Clemene. But I knew I had friends at the other church I told you about in San Juan. Sure. And um, I attended the church in San Clemente. Okay. Looked at the timer, said, Oh, I think I can catch the rest of the service at the church in San Juan. Sure. So I sped over there. And I had been there before, just kind of visiting friends. I knew the junior high pastor there. My buddy had just become the high school pastor there. So I'd been there and whatnot, but I didn't know if I was ever gonna make it my home church. I I I didn't know. Were you also thinking too, like in your in the back of your head, like, is this a place where God can grow me into another serving opportunity, or was it just I mean, I was looking to serve in some capacity, whether it's just a youth leader or whatnot, because again, something I still was going to saddleback and I was doing that, you know, preparing to go to college. Right. Doing the thing that had been recommended to me. Yeah. Um and so I left the church in San Clemente, sped over to the church in San Juan, parked, walked into the building, through the foyer, into the last row of chairs, sat down, and that week I'd had a pain in my chest, as if like I maybe had um pulled a muscle in my chest. Oh, wow. It's like I didn't lift anything particularly heavy, but I had this pain. Yeah, it was really weird. I and I kid you not, and this, I mean, I there seems to be a pattern. Yeah, and this only happens as something's going on. Yeah. Um, I sit down, and there is this warm that went right through me.
SPEAKER_03Oh.
SPEAKER_00The pain was gone, and it was as if I was cemented into the chair. I couldn't be, I couldn't move.
SPEAKER_02In San Juan.
SPEAKER_00In San Juan.
SPEAKER_02Oh, wow. Okay.
SPEAKER_00In that church in San Juan. Now, the church we partnered with, if you remember how I said, mm-hmm, the church we partnered with, my senior year youth group, it was that church.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00The church I grew up at really young was that church. So now I'm coming back.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_00Friends are there. My buddy's the high school pastor there. Um, this church, unfortunately, eight years prior went through a major split. Yeah. That hurt a lot of people. So it's like, okay, am I okay? But I mean, I've never experienced anything like that since.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_00That was a one-time deal where it was so powerful, where it was like just this warm whoosh through my body. Yeah. Pain is now gone, and I'm like cemented in this thing. Yeah. I'm like, I think, I think I'm supposed to be here. Yeah. I think that's okay. Okay. So I meet the pastor, uh, Jim. Um, I, you know, my buddy's the high school pastor, and it's like, okay, maybe I just serve with him. Come and find out the junior high pastor, his name is Chris. He was literally like uh uh Big Bang Theory. Okay. He was a rocket scientist type guy. He was going, I think at the time he's going for his doctorate. Um, he's about to leave in a couple months to get his doctorate back east. So he needed a replacement.
unknownHuh.
SPEAKER_00I just kind of said, well, I'm here, but I'm not necessarily looking to particularly be, you know, in that role. But I started meeting with Jim, and my, you know, my buddy was the high school pastor and stuff, and I started serving in the junior high and eventually just kind of made sense that I took that role on. Wow. And so um, and at that same church, that is where um for the next two years I was trained, really trained as a pastor.
SPEAKER_02Really? Okay. Like, what do you mean by that? Like, cause like what we talked about earlier, formal training at churches to bring leaders up is pretty rare. So, what would that even look like?
SPEAKER_00So while I was there, um I met so Jim was the pastor. Then there was another Jim uh who led our internship program.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00We had a full library, theology books, church history books, like you name it, what you would want in a pastoral internship program. Right. Those type of books. Um uh my buddy Aaron, who him and I were the two young gun pastors there, he was living there. Him and I quickly became partners in ministry to this day. And um, that was in April, May of 2011. Right, yeah, 2011. Um and so we and then the associate pastor Justin was also there. All three of these guys were so vastly different from each other, yeah, but had the same heart, same values in a lot of ways. Not that they always agreed on it, but same values. Um and so I became the junior high pastor there and then got inducted into the internship program. And what that consisted of was weekly pretty sure it was weekly, theological studies in the library, going over ecclesiology, study of the church, or eschatology, study of end times, or whatever it was, the subject of that week. Yeah. On top of that, those three guys, the two Jims and Justin, created a place really for um me and Aaron to learn day-to-day pastoral work, food bank, um being involved in staff meetings, um hospital visitations, jail visitations, um maintenance of the building, um people care, home visitations, like all that type of stuff. Um event organization, um, all of that type of stuff. Um, we were given responsibilities. This was not you just do your own little thing, right?
SPEAKER_02We were studying a corner.
SPEAKER_00Um, and it was, I mean, 20 years old, no degree, barely in experience, and I'm thrown in in it, okay, here's the midweek service, go preach. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, that was the opportunities. I was given this is a sanctuary that could seat a thousand people, and I would do Sunday morning sermons, or not sermons, uh uh announcements. Right. That's the biggest room I've ever been in. Right. How do I do this?
SPEAKER_02Were your eyes closed?
SPEAKER_00I wanted them. Yeah, my first time ever doing it. I sweat bullets, I dropped my notes, I said um every other word. Yeah. But let me tell you, this is so this is what they gave me. So that really happened, right? Yeah. That week after that Sunday, Jim and Justin, Jim, who led the um internship program, and Justin brought me back into that sanctuary building, said, go up on that stage, said do it again, do it again, do it again. Because it is a craft to be able to get in front of a group of people and speak. Yeah. It is something that needs to be developed and honed. And that's what they were giving me. They were giving me time and they were crafting me. They were training me. Yeah. So when I talk about that's where I was trained, that's what I mean. It was in-depth training. Yeah. Um, it was in-depth. Um every day was that way. But something was going on where we were learning something. And I would talk to my other youth pastor friends in the area, and they weren't getting this.
SPEAKER_03Right. Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00No, it was a very rare opportunity. Yeah. And it was one of the most um, it was it was a time when I grew the most. Right. Big time.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. No, that sounds incredible. I mean, like you said, it it's just so rare to have um these men that have gone before you to say, you know what, we're gonna invest the time into you and Aaron and really equip you to see everything. Not just, sure, let's let's crack open the Bible, right? Let's let's get to know you know what the Lord's telling us in these passages, or you know, getting ready for a sermon, but what it means to shepherd, what it means to uh love in a different capacity, not just teach. Yeah. Um, which again, that I feel like a lot of young people, even for myself, where it's just like, yeah, I have this desire to, you know, want to I'm good with my words, or you know, I, you know, think you think of X is the best way of doing things, but you know, the Lord can kind of meet you where you're at, where hey, you know what? There's a better way that I want you to serve. Yeah. You know. Um, and I know we can probably go even deeper into all the intricacies of how your life has just been navigated through this. Um with that training, like where did it where did you see it impact um, you know, in the future, even to this day? Um, you know, as you said, it kind of it almost seemed like God was giving you that foundation. Where do you feel like he's been guiding you with that?
SPEAKER_00I I think it it it instilled that um true education comes with discipline. And so I realized that um I don't have to go to college, I don't have to go to university to learn theology, to learn about these things. If I'm disciplined enough to read and to study and to devote my time to the craft and art of shepherding preaching and teaching, lean on the Lord for all that, then I can do this. Oh yeah. I can do this, and having That type of environment that I was put in gave me that realization. And that's been something that I have leaned on ever since. Of um, and and again, surrounding myself with people that I know and trust. Right. That can help me along those things. Where if I come into a situation where I don't know what to do, I call them.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's kind of crazy, again, um most people, because I I think of myself as most people, but uh you look at the disciples, that what was their background? Like, yeah, they were they were good uh Jewish boys and were were taught well, but weren't necessarily uh taken up by a rabbi or you know became a Pharisee or was was a part of the Sadducees eliteness. Um they were common folk. Yep. And they didn't have no background or de degrees or anything special other than they, you know, what a blessing Jesus took um upon them to bring the word to the world. Yeah. So just a m just amazing how the Lord will use us in whatever way possible doesn't necessarily mean you need a piece of paper to prove anything. No, no, you don't. Um so you know, just so as we were kind of wrapping up our time, where are you at now in ministry? And um where do you feel like the Lord's kind of calling you? Are you are you in like a position where you're um you know, he you're in a foundational point or are you in transition?
SPEAKER_00Like where are you at right now? So I mean that that season, you know, obviously being poured into like that, but you know, that season unfortunately only lasted two years. Um again, I saw church politics, I saw the brutality of what it can be. Same sort of thing. I saw lying from church leadership, I saw scheming, I s it was unfortunate, but unfortunately, that church got absorbed, um, got taken over, uh, not absorbed, taken over by a larger church, and it did damage to a lot of people. Um there's a lot of church hurt that came from that church hurt is real, yeah. Um, and it's not from somebody telling you no or giving you accountability. This was what happened there was wrong. Yeah, it was wrong, um hurt a lot of people, and my buddy Aaron and I saw that, and what hurt the most was seeing the people we loved get hurt. Yeah. Um, it wrecked us. It it really hurt. Um and so I learned unfortunately because that was the third instance where I had seen church politics and what hurt came out of it. Yeah. I, for a solid six months, didn't want anything to do with the institution of church. Yeah. I wanted if I was gonna go do some home church style, freedom, like that sort of thing. Sure. Um, and the Lord let me have my season of pouting for like six months. Yeah. Um, in that time, I went to go work at Forest Home for a summer with my buddy Evan. Nice. He grabbed me, and that was really great for me to kind of get out of my environment, still serve the church from afar in a different capacity, but be removed, right? Um, be able to just kind of pause life for three months. Right. And just kind of be. You know, now at that same time, my mom had just my mom and dad moved to Washington. She was just diagnosed with cancer. So there was a lot in my life at that point falling apart. Wow. Yeah. Um, like, what the heck? And I was there were moments where I was mad at God, where I would yell. But we see in the Psalms, David writes and has those type of emotions. Right. Um, and the Lord let me have my time. He's gracious that way. But at the end of those six months, you know, I was I was with my mom at the last end few months of her life, and while I was there in Washington, um, again, people were asking me just like years before, sure you're done being a pastor? I'm like, yeah, I'm done. I'm done with this. And the Lord just, I remember the night just arm just through my, you know, uh we were arm wrestling and he wrestled me to the floor, it felt like, and said, no, this is what I've created for you to do. And I remember out loud telling him, then you need to give me a place. Give me a place to shepherd, give me a place to pastor. And it was just like that heart posture of like, fine, I'd throw my hands up. Yeah, fine, then give me a place. And I'm in Spokane, Washington at the time. So who knows? Maybe okay, my I'm here for my mom now, but maybe the Lord's bringing me here to pastor and stay here. Right. I don't know. Two weeks later, or within two weeks, I get a call and I have to get this right because she's correcting me about this. Evan in April, Evan, who I went to go work with, a good friend, mentor. Um, his wife calls me on his phone. Okay. I have to make sure I get that right. And they call me and say, hey, Morgan, there's a little church in San Clomene, of course, that is looking for a youth pastor. Give him a call. And so this was January of 2014. I say, All right, Lord, I'll do it. I call. Uh Mary Williams picks up the phone. Yep. Tells me that Ron Sukit had just gotten back from Africa. He'll call you back. Ron does call me back, and we have a good conversation. I tell him, I explain to him why I'm not there. And he um says, no worries, we're we're uh we're not in a hurry. You finish up what you're doing there, and we'll pick this conversation up when you're back in town. Long story short, I do come back, an amazing couple provided housing for me. Um, and I the Lord brought me back to my hometown that I love so much that I have a burden for. Um, and I pastored there for seven and a half years.
SPEAKER_03Wow.
SPEAKER_00I took the training and the discipline that I had in the church in San Juan and brought it to St. Clemente. And um I was bi vocational, which I highly recommend for any young pastor to do. Um, highly recommend. I couldn't stress it enough. I think when you go straight into full time, uh you're almost you're missing something. Yeah. Um you are you're missing something. You need to go and be bi vocational. Um and I did that. And the Lord in his wisdom did that. Um, I see that now, been on the other side of it. Um so from April of 2014 to November of 2021, I pastored there and had a wonderful experience. And I was a youth pastor there for a long time, young adult pastor for a season. Yep. But um, you know, um, there was a pastor that they eventually brought on. Him and I were at odds, and there was a difference of values. Sure. That ultimately that that was the root of it. Um, there were a couple other things that were going on that there were disagreements with, and it um through about a year of prayer with the elders and conversation with the elders. And I want to stress that this that really did happen. That you know, we had spent a lot of time in prayer and conversation, that this what I'm about to say didn't just happen overnight and it wasn't an emotional reaction. Right. Um, I stepped down because it was it became very clear after that amount of time and the amount of time spent having conversations in prayer that there was um a difference in values. Sure. And the two cannot walk together um unless they're of one accord, and I could tell that was not the case. And it was gonna do more damage to myself, to leadership, and to the church as a whole if I were to remain on. Right. Um, it was clear that my time was over. And I think any leader needs to know that that when you need to be sensitive because whether you are serving in a particular position or church, your time will eventually come to an end, whether it's three years in or thirty years in.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_00It's gonna happen. Be sensitive to that. Yeah. And I I I knew. And um, there was one particular meeting that took place with the elders, and I didn't have peace leaving and be going into that meeting. Yeah. I had peace leaving, going out of the meeting.
SPEAKER_02Why? What do you mean?
SPEAKER_00I think because I knew in my heart I had done everything on my end as far as communicating where I was at as a shepherd, as as a pastor, as a member of that church. And the leadership at the time was just in a different place. Right. I I'm not somebody that can change them. Yeah. Um, nor should I. That's up to the Lord. And that's okay.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_00There at the time, that was the leadership that was there. Right. And that's okay. They need to lead the church in a way that they feel the Lord is guiding them to do.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I can't get in the way of that.
SPEAKER_03Yep.
SPEAKER_00And I felt if I tried to, if I stayed and tried to push my way, that's exactly what I was doing. I can't do that. Yeah. So did we have disagreements? Yes. Was there a difference of values? Yes.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_00I I need to go. I need to go. And so in November of 21, I stepped away. And so that was 11 years of pastoral ministry without a break. Um, and so from that point to now has been a season of rest. I've been able to focus on my family, um, develop other skills. I've been able to attend a wonderful church in Laguna Hills where I've been asked to preach and teach, and I've been able to do that, and that's been wonderful. And um, there's been a couple other churches that I have friends at that I've been able to teach at. I've come back to the church in San Clemeni to teach once. Uh El Bueno Pastor, Spanish language church that meets there. My Ernie, who's been on this podcast, he's asked me to come and teach. So I've still been very active, yeah, but in an official pastoral position, haven't. And you know what? That's okay. Yeah. It's I've still ministered to people, I've still shepherded people, just in a different capacity. Yeah. Um now what's in the future? I don't know. Um, I am going through a transition right now, um, job-wise, and there are some great options on the table. And we will see what the Lord identifies as the next thing. Right. Um, so we'll see.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and I know um just literally being uh a stone throw away down the street from you, yeah. Uh we've had plenty of conversations of what uh the Lord has been doing, right? Where you had a really good season. You're talking about you you worked uh a summer or two with uh uh forest home.
SPEAKER_00Worked one summer in 2013 and then uh almost for two years from June of 24 to just this past just this past month. And then I was with Forest Home again.
SPEAKER_02Right, exactly. So you were able to go back and and work uh in a more full-time capacity with Forest Home, which was a huge process. Oh, that was awesome. Uh working, you know, remotely, but also still going up. So having some just deep root rooted connections. I think it's just a good you know point for both work and for ministry and all aspects of life. Like the Lord has different times for reasons and seasons that he needs you in in certain places, right? Yeah. Um and and like you were saying earlier, like we just need to be sensitive to just trusting that God, you you have the wheel here. Um, I I believe that you're gonna take me in the right direction. Yep. I might not see out the window, yeah, like you can. Yeah. Um, but you know, I have faith that uh through through the turbulence, through everything that's going on, that you're gonna lead me to exactly where I need to be. Yeah. Um, so we'll we'll be definitely praying for you in that season of just hey, this this new transition where hey, maybe you do go back into a you know official capacity, or maybe you go back to something bi vocational. Um time will tell. Time will tell. We'll see. Time will tell. Um, so to kind of you know wrap things up here, what what advice do you have um for any individual that wants to even just generally serve, but even has a heart of I want to get into ministry, I want to teach the next generation, or I want to be on the pulpit. Um obviously, you know, there's there's no clear picture of how to get there. You had a a really beautiful case of like God pouring the right people into you. Yeah. Um, so yeah, what what kind of advice do you have for those that are listening on your podcast?
SPEAKER_00Um don't desire the pulpit. For one, don't desire to stage, desire to serve. Um I while I was at the church in San Juan, I cleaned 52 toilets a week. Oh, but we'll never forget the number. Um, desire that. Um, if you can't clean a toilet, you have no business being in the pulpit. No business. Um and I've seen that from pastors where they will not do it. Um it's like it's above them.
SPEAKER_02Right, right.
SPEAKER_00No, yeah, exactly. It you mean bel below below, whatever. Yeah, no, exactly. And and it's not. Um it's not. You you're called to serve. Um, and so desire to serve. Yeah. Do not desire the pulpit. The pulpit is merely an instrument to serve, no different than the plunger. Um no different. Yeah. So desire to serve. Um find the needs within the church, what's needed. Yeah. Um, that's how you do that. Um but then my main encouragement would be go to a men that you trust and ask them to what they think. Hey, I'm thinking about I'm aspiring to this role. Sure. Do you see that in me? Um if so, what should I do about it? Because they know you, right? Yeah. So they'll be able to guide you. Be disciplined in study. Um be disciplined. You have to become a reader. There's no ifs, ands, or buts. Um, you need to become a reader, and we have access to more biblical study tools today than any generation prior, there's no reason why you can't. Um, and don't say, Well, I can't afford college, neither did I. You can do it. Um again, go to trusted church leaders and they'll point you in the right direction. Um if university and college is something that you want to do, great. Do not go into debt for it. Because um, you brought this up earlier about what it takes here to to live. Right. It is not a cheap place. There scripture talks about count the cost. Right. Um being a pastor is not a payday. No. Um, it's not. So understand that you go go and look what a theology degree costs, right? What a biblical studies degree costs. Um go look at average pastoral salaries today. Um the math doesn't math. Um there is a way to do it. There are a lot of great programs out there. You could even do it super slow. Right. And pay as you go type thing if you want to. But I'm telling you, because I've watched it happen, you get into debt for this, now you are going to choose a pastoral position because of money not calling.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_00And that is something you do not want to do.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, don't be ruled by it. And debt can do that to you. Um so get with good leadership and mentorship that will guide you. Look for a place to serve and be disciplined uh to study. Yep. That's what I would encourage anybody to do if they are looking to aspire to the role of uh pastor elder.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. No, I mean, you you think about the uh uh Sadducees, Pharisees, like you can literally see it. These people wanted to just be recognized. These people wanted the wealth and comfort with Rome. Right. And it's just like don't inspire to be them. No. Look what Jesus did. Look, look, look at the different path. Yeah. Right? Look at uh John the Baptist that was uh leading the way for Jesus to come in. He was out there eating crickets and honey and was just a wild man. Like you I think some people are we just we've we tend to forget that there is no such thing as this picture perfect perfect-esque, you know, uh way into ministry, but those that you see, you know, like a Ron Sucit, and there were years, decades of forming into this shepherd role. So whatever you see, just understand that um the Lord has been working on these men and women uh in their lives to shape them to where they are at. So don't look at someone's you know, down the road progress to where you're starting at, because if you ask them where they started, you'd probably be surprised on how it might be similar to you or even further behind you. Sure. So um, but Morgan again, appreciate the time and you know for letting me come here getting to pick your brain, getting to kind of get to know you a little more. Um, definitely look forward to the next uh next one that you have. I I love all the speakers you've had so far. Yeah. Um, but uh yeah, continue we'll we'll continue to be praying for you and we look forward to what's next in your life.
SPEAKER_00Appreciate it, my friend, and thank you for stepping into the interviewer role. Um it's definitely a different experience for me being on this side of it. But thank you for taking the time to do that. Um thank you for all that are listening, and uh next time.