EP. 11: SUSTAINABLE DJ CAREERS, COFFEE'S 50TH BIRTHDAY, & MORE!

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:05

Feeling fresh, your voice is ready, you got your water, you got your coffee. It's Monday morning, we're back.

SPEAKER_00 0:12

Bright and early, bro. Fucking hell, 6 41 a.m. This is what I do for you guys. 6 41.

SPEAKER_02 0:17

Man, listen, I I got in from Berlin yesterday quite early because when I've got a show internationally and I come back, if it's a Saturday night, the Sunday morning, I'm always the first flight out back to London just because I want to get back early and and have enough time.

SPEAKER_00 0:34

But I've been meaning to ask you about that, bro. It's like every time you know we're looking at your logistics, it's always like you don't want to sleep in the city that uh you're performing in. You're like in and out.

SPEAKER_02 0:45

Yeah, number one, you want to stay out of trouble because I feel like if you if you give yourself too much time to rest and sleep and hang around, then it's easier to you know hang back after the show, do this, do that, and do too much enjoyment. So for me, it's like as soon as I finish playing, alright. Then I'm you know in trouble mode, back to the hotel. If I'm sleeping, if I'm not sleeping, you know, get some shut eye and then I'm back. But yeah, I literally slept one hour. I was snoozing a lot though, like every 10 minutes I was like snooze, snooze, snooze, and then yeah, I got you. Yeah, got the Uber and Berlin. They've got they they've refurbed their their airport.

SPEAKER_03 1:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:32

Yeah, it's been in the news for for a long time because it took very long time to uh to complete the project. It was like over 13 years delay of uh redoing the the airport. But it's finally done, it's nice, it's yeah, it's huge, man. It's huge. But uh yeah, man, like when you when you don't have to check in your luggage, you're just in, in and out five minutes, and then you're waiting for your flight. But yeah, I go back Yeah, I go back like half eight, and then I was just crashing all day. For some reason, I was tired. Like I haven't done my my IG lives in a while as well, but I've been working on some tech behind it because I figured out OBS and some technology to make it better and and how to engage people a bit more so people eventually can skip the line and I can see the queue and if you want to skip, you can pay for that, right? For the top spot, so I play your track next. So yeah, and try to figure out the the live streaming too.

SPEAKER_00 2:39

Bro, like speaking of live streams, I was watching this uh Louis Thoreau documentary about um I guess it's called Manosphere. Did you watch it? So good, man. Oh, and I was just thinking, like, I was like, oh man who is streaming, is he ever gonna be that guy like streaming like on the streets, like during his, you know, on the road, all that kind of stuff? Bro, it's mad though. Like these guys are just online 24 hours a day.

SPEAKER_02 3:05

But you the guys that do this type of streaming, it's like street live stream, it's like they're very young guys, and you've got these eight to 14 year olds watching. Yeah. Yeah, they're like, do this, dude. And you're just like, come on, man, like what are you doing, bro? It's it's uh it's it's bad. But the documentary was amazing, bro. Like we it was so good. So good.

SPEAKER_00 3:33

I think at some point we need uh we need an Avro House documentary, man. Like I know Rise Berlin, they did one, I think, a couple years ago now. That was really good, but I don't think it received enough publicity just because it was Rise, it was on YouTube. But I think there's gonna come a time where you know we need a major, you know, platform.

SPEAKER_02 3:52

Let's do it. That's club record. I mean, listen, we we are the best content creators in in Afro House.

SPEAKER_01 3:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:58

Let's do it. I think it's gotta be something fresher, something that's sexier than you know, no offense to previous documentaries, but it's gonna be more modern, I think.

unknown 4:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:13

More with the times, more more snackable and and social media friendly, I think.

SPEAKER_00 4:18

No, exactly, exactly. Yeah. Um, I mean, bro, that's like my most watched content right now is is documentaries for like long form stuff. I think that just ideas are running, bro. Like, imagine spending like, you know, a week with Francis or something like that, and you know, you're chopping it up with other other DJs that are kind of on the road and and getting their thoughts on basically everything, you know?

SPEAKER_02 4:41

Yeah, it's about it's about the the angle, right? I mean, you you talked about the Louis Thoreau documentary, you've got to find this very sexy, viral angle that makes sense instantly, and then you can start to create this amazing content. So in Afro House, yeah, I can't think on the spot right now what that angle would be for a documentary, but you know, there's so many interesting personalities. I mean, I think it would make sense for someone like obviously Francis, like a Ramper, like a Shimza, yeah, a coffee. You know, if you want to get like five to six, seven main people, and then uh and then go for it. But I think I think it would be cool. I'd watch it for sure.

SPEAKER_00 5:29

I mean, you know, on on that topic, there's a lot of guys that are you know keen to share their opinions online. I mean, just now, right as we started recording, Floyd Levine posted a a reel kind of sharing his thoughts on you know Afro House at the moment, and you know, in in short, he's basically is it gimmicky? Um, is it is it unoriginal? Is it kind of rinsed, you know, for lack of a better term? And um he's not the only one that's you know been talking online. There's a few guys. I know you did you did drums radio um was it last week or week before? I mean, I felt like that that was a conversation that was going on, right, for the most part.

SPEAKER_02 6:07

Yeah, it was, it was. I mean, uh as you were talking about Floyd Levine's uh what did he did he do a story or a post today? What did he do? It was a real, yeah. It's a real okay. Yeah. Did you see the John Summit clip when he's like I think it was live streaming and he's saying about Afro House, it's like um for each, yeah, for like any destination with a beach or sugar daddies and shugar babes and this and that and listening.

SPEAKER_00 6:40

Yeah, it's I saw that. I actually commented on that video because he said uh uh Afro House people don't come for me, and I commented, I'm coming for you, bro.

SPEAKER_02 6:52

No, but because of the almost like rapid success of Afro House, people are coming for it, and there's a lot of gimmicks around it, the kind of music scarf, the phones, the TikToks, the you know, the the rich destinations where Afro House is prevalent. Like I get it. Um but it's it's it's created a lot of opportunities. Even for people like uh for Floyd Levine, right?

SPEAKER_00 7:27

I mean that's it's created a lot of opportunities. That's the whole thing, is like there, you know, this conversation is not new to us, and anyone who's been in the scene as long as we have knows that we've been talking about the evolution and the adoption um of Afrohouse and maybe how it's changed like for years now. And this was kind of pre-predicted um you know by a lot of industry guys, and a lot of people were worried and are still talking shit about what AfroHo is now. But I just think at the end of the day, man, like your market is bigger than it it's ever been. Like there is at least a positive in that. Although, yeah, there are some negatives about how the sound has changed, who's paying for what, who's getting the gigs. But again, I feel like everybody's eating more as a result anyway. So it's a fine line, man.

SPEAKER_02 8:24

The thing is success. The the most valued way of um evaluating success in Afrohouse now is beatport Afrohouse chart.

SPEAKER_01 8:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:40

Right. That's that's the only way I would say that that people look at and feel any sense of value, right? I think that is not a true representation of Afrohouse and the sound, so you can't go by that, but understand like that is the way of measuring money and success at the moment. But that is not Afro House, right? I think we need to there needs to be a platform or another way to kind of share that message and share that sound and understand, okay, this is Afro House, and again, I don't want to have that conversation because it's tough. Like, what is Afro House? But it's not B-port Afro House, it's not the Beepport top 100 chart. We understand that, right? But um, yeah, I mean I Afra uh at Drums Radio when I was in this panel discussion here in London a couple weeks back, um, yeah, it was a talk with Bodhisattva, Mario Bad Box, and Heavy Kay. So, you know, some Afro House legends in there and and people that contributed to Black Coffee's career and were there at the start and helped him a lot. But it was it was eye-opening for me to be in that conversation because I'm a newbie in Afro House, I've been in it not even 10 years. But these people were there from the beginning, were there when you know Kulo dropped his first album, when Oskito was still pushing Queto and those sounds, so they understand the evolution of it and the geography of Afro House and and what it took for it to be where it is now, you know, before there was any money in it, before you know, when it was just passion and when it was just like I'm doing this because I love it. So the conversation started you know, how did Afro House start? That was the that was the beginning of the conversation. But very quickly, as I sat back, because I didn't have a lot to say because they contributed more to the conversation because you know that's that's their experience, not really mine. But very quickly, it was cool for me to understand that they're also playing the game. And when I say the game, they understand that Afro House now is at a place where it's reached this level where there's so many opportunities and success stories that have now trickled down to the smaller artists, and now smaller artists are able to travel and able to maybe not completely go full-time on it, but they're still able to make some substantial amount of money and and and profit from the success of bigger artists. You know, and they were saying things like, Yeah, the ship has sailed on that original Afro House sound, and that it's okay.

SPEAKER_01 11:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:38

It's it's at the end of the day, it's your experience, it's what you make with it, it's it's how you give back to the genre. But yeah, man, I think we've we've started to move away from that that topic of what is the real Afro House, who is making the real Afro House, why is this commercial sound so prevalent, even at the top with those OG artists, which is good for me, I think.

SPEAKER_00 12:05

Yeah, you know, it's uh it's interesting because this modern like you know, conversation that people are are having today about oh, like the sound is this and it's that. But you know, you look back like four or five years ago, I remember the same kind of guys or different people saying, like, oh, they're just making songs so Black Coffee will play it in their set, his set, and then what was before that? Probably something else. So, you know, there's iterations of of this argument, but I think people are also forgetting, like, you know, how difficult, and this is general, how difficult it is to actually make it in music and to sustain yourself. You know, streaming doesn't pay as much as it used to, you know, to get to be a touring DJ, get on the road, get paid, you know, that kind of way as well as, you know, it's extremely saturated, it's competitive. Um, so how do you measure success in this game is is really challenging. Because there are some guys that I think, oh, they're super successful as musicians, but if you probably broke it down, you know, from a financial perspective, it maybe doesn't look as such, right?

SPEAKER_02 13:16

For sure. I mean, Buddy was talking about this, and he was making it known to a lot of the people in the audience that, you know, you think that just because you know, you know, you know some artists and you know their name and they may have some big tracks, it doesn't mean that they're actually living a comfortable life from music. Right. And he was saying his experience is that now he's he's in this um routine and he's built this system that allows him to live off it. That's why he's releasing every Friday, right? He's got this this system that um, yeah, it just allows him to make this a living. But it wasn't something that happened uh in one or two years, right? It takes time and of course he makes a lot of music, maybe one, two tracks a day. So every Friday he's got a track out, and from that he's you know able to generate enough revenue or enough uh livelihood that that that he can sustain it. But again, this is like an extreme level of preparation and structure. You know, if if you're not a prolific producer, if you don't have that experience, you've gotta be in the millions and millions and millions of streams and gigging, touring. You have to be touring these days to to to make this a full-time job.

SPEAKER_00 14:44

Yeah, I mean, also the thing that also Yeah, go on. I was gonna say Bodhi.

SPEAKER_02 14:51

It's fine. You go, you go, you go, you go, you go.

SPEAKER_00 14:53

I was gonna say, I mean, because because Bodhisattva's been in the game for so long, he has you know this base audience that um you know can generate that that income for for him on a on a weekly or monthly basis. But obviously, if you're younger starting out, you don't have access to that same kind of audience.

SPEAKER_02 15:14

Yeah, but I think one thing as well that we don't realize is I think I truly believe DJ careers are short, bro. I think they're short.

SPEAKER_03 15:27

And I think that with the lifestyle, with how things are set up, you almost have this small window that you have to optimize and make sure that you know you get the most out of.

SPEAKER_02 15:49

Right, right, because if you if you can't make the next hit, if you can't stay hot, you know, it's happened to a lot of a lot of rappers, a lot of artists, you know, in the past and especially in our scene, bro, we have a lot of not many huge artists at the level of let's say Black Coffee, kind of Francis, Shimza. I mean, how many artists can say that they get four or five books a week consistently? Yeah. You know? You've got that kind of upper echelon, and then you've got that second to third tier where you're getting let's say five consistent gigs uh a month, not even a week a month. Yeah, right. How sustainable is that? Right? Because you're at this this this category where you don't have a huge hit where people just know your name. You're not really selling tickets like that, you know. And I've seen it, I've seen it. I've I've gone to many gigs in London where artists think they're hot because they've got this decent track, and you go to the gig and there's no one there, or it's kind of empty. Um so I think also the market is skewed when it comes to Afro House or even just electronic music and the DJ market. It's like you've got sometimes a short amount of a short window to capitalize and make your money and yeah, figure out like how can I make this a long career? Because it's it's not easy, man. It's hard, bro. It's hard. There's so many artists out there that I we can name that have slowed down and you know.

SPEAKER_00 17:46

So so what do you think are kind of like some you know major milestones that make your career like more sustainable to get to that upper echelon, as you mentioned? I mean, I'm just you know, this just this past couple weeks, there's been a few more residencies announced, Francis Miknos at Scorpios, Shimza at Pasha. Do you think those, you know, caliber of gigs and residencies are what kind of brings you up into that long-term sustainable career, or you know, building your own brand like Shimza with with Kunye and and his partners down in South Africa? Like what gets you to that level?

SPEAKER_02 18:25

I think it's all those DJs obviously have experience and they've they've been doing it for quite some time. So I think it's building that experience, and that experience is usually built on consistent relationships and trust that you built over the years. And you have to approach it as a profession. You know, you've got to be extremely serious with it. If you can own some of it, that's always better because I think a lot of these people that LDJs that are getting these opportunities, they've proven that they can sell their own tickets, they can throw their own parties, they've got their own labels, they've got their own infrastructure. I think that's huge.

SPEAKER_01 19:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:12

That's and you almost have to do it. You almost have to do it because you know, when you can show to whatever venue, residency, company that I can do this by myself anyway, then it's less of a risk of a risk for them. Um so yeah, you've got to bet on yourself, you know. I know I'll say that a lot, but it's it's over time. I think that's what makes huge stars. Of course, if you have if you can make a hit, multiple hits, that's easier said than done. That's the the hardest thing to do.

SPEAKER_01 19:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:53

But yeah, if you can sell your own tickets on a big scale, that counts, that counts a lot, man. That counts for a lot. But it's not easy, man. I mean, I'm just talking here.

SPEAKER_00 20:04

Yeah, it's not easy.

SPEAKER_02 20:05

It's not easy.

SPEAKER_00 20:05

So I'm throwing, I'm gonna throw in a random question. So, yeah, we've seen a few DJs kind of curating their own experiences, which have grown a lot. Which DJs in Afro House right now do you think are ready to kind of curate their own experience, like a cunye or a soleil or something like that?

SPEAKER_02 20:24

I haven't done it. I mean Yeah. Unreleased and Magnifica doing it very well.

SPEAKER_00 20:30

Yeah, that's another great example.

SPEAKER_02 20:32

They're doing it very well. But again, these are things that you know they those guys, they're probably gonna keep throwing their own parties, making them bigger and bigger and bigger, getting bigger and bigger artists, and uh, you know, at some point they're gonna get Anu Shua or they're gonna get you know that big stage. But that's how you do it. You have to kind of build up to it. And I mean it's also a I mean it is a it is a long-term play. I think you've gotta kind of build this this portfolio that you can own forever and and it's yours, right? I think I think that's for me that's actually how I approach it. It's not just about me, me, I want to get gigs, because at the same time, like you can't travel forever, you can't do this forever. At some point, you know, life on the road, it's cool, it seems cool, but sometimes it's stressful, man. You want to stay on, you want to show, especially if you have kids, you have if you have a family. I mean, Black Coffee, how many shows does does he do now? I mean, he's he just turned 50.

SPEAKER_00 21:41

We could talk about his birthday party as well, but yeah, you know, like But you you know what I I think about often every time I travel, like especially I just came back from Australia, right? And that was that was a journey, man. That was tough. Um, but you know, if you're not if you're not at that upper echelon where you're, you know, you're getting business class tickets or private. Flying, like the amount of time that you're spending in an airport or an or an economy class seat, I think is super impressive. Man, those guys who do it every day, unbelievable. I would go nuts. I don't I don't think I have it in me, to be honest.

SPEAKER_03 22:17

Do you know what? I think it's definitely tough.

SPEAKER_02 22:23

But if you're traveling, if you're doing three, four gigs a week, bro, you're making like over 10k, 15k a week, bro. Like it's fine, you're gonna do it. You're gonna do it. You're gonna do it. Right, you're gonna do it. So that's that's the the trade-off, I guess. But it's not, it's not a healthy lifestyle, for sure. It's definitely not a healthy lifestyle, especially like on the dietary side, like when I went to Berlin and that was just one gig that I did I did this week. I mean, you land and then they're like, oh, we booked, we booked a table at this restaurant, and bro, we went for pizza, and it was like the fucking biggest piece I've ever seen. Just for one person. So you're eating that, you're having a beer, and then you're like, man, I went to the gym this morning, because I went to the gym Saturday morning, and you're like, man, it's not the you've got to really be disciplined.

SPEAKER_00 23:18

Bro, that's what we should actually have like a conversation about that at some time, is is the health approach on the road. So yeah, like hitting your macros if you're you know concerned about eating, going staying staying active in the gym. It's impressive, man, because it would be so easy just to like for me, beer and food, like it's done.

SPEAKER_02 23:42

It's uh it's not easy, it's not easy, but I think I think N Friends would be a good a good one to have on for that. Francis looks like he's also quite quite healthy and and and takes a healthy approach to to life on the road. Uh Shimza as well, we touched on it on on the podcast, but you know, now we're getting into all of our topics. Do you wanna do you want to talk about Black Coffee's birthday quickly or or go into Shimz on MacG?

SPEAKER_00 24:12

Let's let's go uh the big 50 for the chief.

SPEAKER_02 24:16

Big 50, the big 50. Yeah, it was funny. Last night I was just scrolling through all the guests that I could identify and recognize.

SPEAKER_01 24:27

Okay, right?

SPEAKER_02 24:28

So I was just like going on Black Coffee's Instagram or his his girlfriend and then seeing, oh, that's Major League. So then going on Major League's profiles and going on the stories or Ameme, Fiona Craft. It looked fun, man. It looked fun, and and yeah, it was a multiple-day event, right? It wasn't just the one night. So, and he had he had some big names there. David Grootman, obviously Shimza was there, Osquito Major League. I'm trying to see who else in terms of like celebrities.

SPEAKER_00 25:01

If you're turning 50, like you gotta you gotta go big. Um, I know like obviously um Shoba was there with uh his son Impilo. You know, he did a set, right?

SPEAKER_02 25:14

Did he play, right?

SPEAKER_00 25:16

Yeah, shout out shout out to his name is DJ Influence, man. It's it's quite impressive. Like this guy is is totally blind um for the most part, and he is still able to DJ with just hearing and feel, which is just unbelievable, man. That's crazy. Very cool. Is he legally blind? He's legally blind, yeah. Damn, yeah, I didn't know that. Wow, yeah, he is. So super impressive. Was Bad Box? Bad Box made it out.

SPEAKER_02 25:45

Bad box was there, bad box was there. Um, I mean, from our scene, I recognize Ameme, Fiona Craft, as I said, Wascrumbow, Major League, Shimza, they DJ Merlin was there.

SPEAKER_00 26:03

Merylon, yeah. Shout out to Merlin, man.

SPEAKER_03 26:09

It looks cool, man. It looked cool.

SPEAKER_02 26:11

Listen, Cape Town, it's like paradise. Cape Town is just that spot. It's just become such a such a pristine destination. It looked amazing. I was like, man, I need to work hard, I need to be invited to to the next one. Or have our own, man. When I when I turn 50 or when I have a situation like that, man, like it's next time.

SPEAKER_00 26:33

I would love. I mean, Cape for me, Cape Town is somewhere I'd love to end up eventually. Um, but again, like still South Africa, so you have to come in with, you know, kind of bags and and make sure that you're you're kind of sorted. I mean, I would move there now, but I just feel like there's not a lot of opportunity to really sustain because it's one of those cities now where it's in the globe.

SPEAKER_02 26:58

The Germans are there, bro.

SPEAKER_00 26:59

All the Germans are there, and Brits. So they've they've come in and they've obviously the market is now everything costs the same as it does in London, or maybe not quite, but close enough. So property is expensive, eating out is expensive, drinking is expensive. So it's not a cheap city, but it used to be.

SPEAKER_02 27:17

Man, I was going there roughly 10 years ago. I just fell in love with the place. You know, when you go somewhere and you start looking at real estate, you're like, man. Yeah. Should I move here? Should I move here? And man, Cape Town was probably people always ask me, what's your favorite city on earth? Cape Town and Miami. Those two for me.

SPEAKER_00 27:39

Good choices, my friend.

SPEAKER_02 27:40

Always, always, always up there. But no, yeah. Happy birthday to Black Coffee. Um, for me last week, probably the best piece of content that I consumed was Shimza on the MacG podcast.

SPEAKER_00 27:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 27:55

Let's see. Let's see how many views that video is on. Let me just check quickly on YouTube. Let's see, let's have a look.

SPEAKER_00 28:03

See, I saw I saw a bunch of kind of clips flying around. I was saving it for you know, when I had a bit of you know, more peace and quiet to to listen in, but I missed it for the most part, bro. So you're gonna have to get me caught up to speed there.

SPEAKER_02 28:16

Approaching 500,000 views. Really? Shimza on Black Coffee Government Gigs, Cunier, Cabza, you know, and everything else. I think it was a an insight into his business acumen, insight into his life on the road, insight into they were getting onto him because they're saying he's making white music, white people music now. Oh, I see, okay. So they were talking a bit about that, um, his weight loss journey. Yeah, it's like I think it's like two hours long.

SPEAKER_01 28:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 28:57

But it it it was very enjoyable for me to to listen in and and listen to Shimza. Well spoken guy. The business side of it, I think, hit me the most because you start to understand that he's one of those people that say he has an idea of starting an event, right? Which obviously he's got. The components that put together an event, over time he's starting to own. So, fucking ice machine he was talking about. Now he's got an ice, he supplies ice for his own event. Furniture. You know what I mean? So all these things that go into creating an event and an experience. He's like, Yeah, I need to supply it on my own and figure out how I can do it by myself, right? So he's a very self-sufficient person. And you also touched, yeah, yeah, he's cool, man. He's cool. And he's also touched on things like um he is a structure builder, so he's someone that sets up the structure and then he lets other people run it, right? So he's got companies where, you know, with the help of other people, he'll set up the structure, set up the business, and then empower other people to actually run the day-to-day.

SPEAKER_00 30:19

That's amazing, man. I mean, that's what uh the really good entrepreneurs do, right? Because if there's always this thing like, okay, if you if you had to disappear for like, you know, a couple months for whatever reason, will your business survive without you, yes or no? And the answer should always be yes, right? That's that is really impressive, and most entrepreneurs don't get that right.

SPEAKER_02 30:44

You know, yeah. It's he's impressive. Impressive person, and of course, as a DJ, the journey, right, from being an extremely uh ambitious DJ when he was young, and now you know, arguably being the second biggest after black coffee, it's crazy. You know, they touched on the Abitha residency, they've got a pasha and that being a huge, huge milestone for him and his career. Yeah, part of me is like, man, I don't want to ruin it for you because you gotta watch it and and uh and consume it for yourself.

SPEAKER_00 31:29

Well, listen, I mean, I will I'm I'm definitely gonna listen to it today because I just uh I've been listening to a lot of podcasts recently. I mean, when you're creating one, it's always interesting to see how people run you know their own. So but that that's right up right up my street, man.

SPEAKER_02 31:45

It's cool, man. You're gonna learn a lot. You're gonna learn a lot about business.

SPEAKER_00 31:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:49

Um and also he is very politically correct. Like he's beyond the drama now. He's easy.

SPEAKER_00 31:59

You have to be, man.

SPEAKER_02 32:00

Yeah, he doesn't give a shit about the drama. Like he doesn't get into you know the spicy questions that they ask him. He's just like, yeah, okay, yeah. Oh, he's like, you know, he acts like uh, you know, like what did you say? You'd be like, what? Oh, okay, oh yeah. You know, he just does that type of thing. He doesn't get into the drama or the mess, which I think at that level you have to, you know, when they get into Black Coffee staff or or other characters. Um, but it's part of it. I think also he's he's been attacked, I think, quite quite a lot in his in his come-up as a DJ in South Africa. So now he's just like, man, they don't know shit. People don't know shit. They just they just talk.

SPEAKER_00 32:47

I mean, he's he's definitely been through the motions, man, and he's proven himself on both sides of the border at home and and abroad. So he deserves his flowers, man. Shout out to Shimzo for sure.

SPEAKER_02 33:00

Crazy, man. Crazy. Listen, the music that he's making now is probably the the biggest um criticism that he gets. They call it white music. You know, when when there's clips on Twitter and and different social media platforms about the reaction of some of his sets at Cunhay, no one's dancing. People are like, what is this? Like, you know.

SPEAKER_00 33:31

I beg to differ on that. I get a lot of kune clips.

SPEAKER_02 33:34

Um, but now listen, look, a clip a clip is different than a I'm not sure how long the sets are.

SPEAKER_00 33:41

They're full set, yeah. But you know what, man? Look, it's it's uh I don't I think no matter what you do, you're always gonna um you know receive that kind of criticism. It's the same like you know, Mafra Mapriza or or Cabza going into Afro. That's like been a huge conversation recently. It's like why are they doing it? Are they selling out, or is it from a place of you know musical like passion and uh kind of stuff like that? That's a whole nother conversation, right? But it's never gonna end. And then it goes back to what I said as like, oh, this guy used to make music like that, now he's making music for you know so and so, so it gets played in his sets and yada yada yada, man. I think people just gonna talk and talk and talk forever, and you're never gonna be like, yeah, this guy's a hundred percent at all times, you know? It doesn't work that way in our industry, right?

SPEAKER_02 34:33

Doesn't work that way. Doesn't work that way. I mean, I see it as a way to enter a market, you know. When when I'm the way I act around my family isn't the same way I act around I don't know, a potential investor.

SPEAKER_01 34:52

Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_02 34:53

It's like you've gotta cater to the root to the room. You've gotta adapt and and play the game. Not in a kind of shrewd way and self um what's the word self-serving way, but it's just how it works, right? If you want to enter the European market, it's like a DJ set. You can't play the same DJ set everywhere.

SPEAKER_00 35:26

No, exactly. And I mean that's what I think it's so easy to be like, yeah, he's he's selling out or whatever, but at the end of the day, this is a this is a business, it's an industry, and you can take traditional examples that you know Big Mac is not the same in every country. Why is that? Because you know, they have to address certain levels and whatever to to you know the local uh the local population, how spice how spicy something is, how how it's not like Nando's essay is not the same Nando's UK from a spice perspective. You know, it's these kinds of things, man.

SPEAKER_02 36:00

People just you can tell you can tell Wesley likes his food, guys. You can tell Wesley likes his food.

SPEAKER_00 36:04

Well, you know, you know why I say that I had Nando's for the first time in probably about five years this weekend, and it was like it just hit, man. It was so good. You have Nando's in Toronto? We have Nando's in Toronto. There's not a lot, there's only like a few, they're not everywhere, so you kinda have to make the trip. Yeah. Uh and it hit the spot. Hit the spot, man. Hit the spot. Love a cheeky Nando's.

SPEAKER_02 36:33

But what did you get?

SPEAKER_00 36:34

What did you get? I got I got uh quarter chicken, I got 10 chicken wings, spicy rice, and side salad, man. Trying to trying to stay stay off the fries.

SPEAKER_02 36:48

God damn, a quarter chicken, 10 wings. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 36:52

So I was like, just I was like, just clean the whole plate. Just clean the streamer than me.

SPEAKER_02 37:04

Anytime I go to Nando with periperry fries, those periperri fries, I have to, bro. I have to.

SPEAKER_00 37:11

I know. Listen, I love them too. It's hard, it was one of the hardest things, but you know, trying to stay locked in. Keep that belly down.

SPEAKER_02 37:19

But you're looking leaner though. You're looking leaner. You're looking leaner these days.

SPEAKER_00 37:23

Working on it, fucking hell. It's a grind, but it's like, yeah, less, less, obviously, less no less fried food, no sugar. The beer is my ultimate advice, bro. Like, beer is like, you know, even if I'm having just one or two drinks, I'd rather have a beer than like, you know, a glass of wine or something else. But my next major goal is like to switch to like a tequila lime soda or something like that.

SPEAKER_02 37:50

Oh yeah, that's that's like the the go-to drink for uh yeah, what what's your waste?

SPEAKER_00 37:57

Exactly, man. Exactly. Um yeah, so yeah, Shimzo was cool.

SPEAKER_02 38:04

I'm trying to think. What?

SPEAKER_00 38:05

Gone? No, no, all good. I was just about to say, man, I wanted to talk about something else that kind of happened recently uh as a label, kind of touching on some some club record business. Uh maybe we won't mention which song it was, but we we had a song that you know we're kind of pondering over for quite a long time. Do we want it? Do we not? And then it got signed by you know a pretty major um well-financed label in our scene. So, like, what when that happened, man, what was like your first kind of thought process there?

SPEAKER_03 38:42

The thing is, I wanted to sign the track.

SPEAKER_02 38:48

Right. It's almost like the gut feel of like, yeah, like that instant first reaction, that first feeling that you get. People say you should always trust that, and you know, when it works, of course, you're the smartest person in the room. When it doesn't work, you're stupid, right? So it's it's difficult to have that discernment and and make the right decision. But you can't overthink it, man. You let it go and you move on. But it's tough, man. It's tough because it's always there. It's a streetly, it's a it's a very competitive business. It's it's it's almost like sometimes you want to own all the music. Yeah. I know that sounds weird, but sometimes you feel like, oh man, that's right. It's part of it though, it's part of it. I think from there you understand more of this business as well, is about that the gut instinct and your taste and what you like, and that natural um yeah, your natural taste for music.

SPEAKER_00 40:03

It's also difficult because you know, the way we have like four people in in AR right now, obviously, two of us, and then we have two two guys um, you know, working on our team as well. And you know, there are moments where you you hear a track, you really like it, you think it's gonna be great. Then the other three or two others are like, mmm, you know, not for me. And then it kind of makes you start to doubt yourself. But what happened with this one, I think you really liked it. I I didn't really like it, I'll be honest. I still don't think it was the strongest track out there, but but it's so personal with music, right? Like just because I think that maybe the majority would disagree with me, you know.

SPEAKER_02 40:46

I see. I mean I think it's there should be almost like a template of questions that you answer and analyze before you make a decision. Again, you've got those tracks that just don't warrant that attention. So you get a track that's just completely shit, you don't need to go through those questions, but when it's like when it's not super clear, then you could go through this process of all these questions. I mean, one of the questions could be okay, would you send it to big DJs? Would would it get support? Um how involved are are the artists in in creating content?

SPEAKER_01 41:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:34

You know, what what how big is their profile? Yeah, I think there's a quit there's a few questions that you can come up with that make uh the selling of a record easier, especially for a record label. And I think for this one, I haven't seen a lot of DJ support, but there's content, a lot of content being created for this track by the artists. The streams are very good at the moment. Yeah, I want to check TikTok. Yeah, I want to check TikTok now. Excuse me. I want to check TikTok now to see how many reels or TikToks have been made. Let's have a look. Let's have a look. What's the track called? Focus, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:21

Focus, DJ Carabba.

SPEAKER_00 42:25

Dr. Chai, Emily Apollo.

SPEAKER_02 42:28

Minya, listen. I know you know you started you started the conversation with oh, we're not gonna name the track, and I just named it.

SPEAKER_00 42:35

Yeah, it's listen, it's it's fine. I mean, I think it's good, it's good to talk about because 77 videos. Let's see. Ooh, 500 posts. That's a lot. I mean, stream wise, it dropped on it dropped on February 27th, and it's on 137k, which is pretty good, man. That is pretty good.

SPEAKER_03 42:58

You dropped a month ago?

SPEAKER_00 42:59

No, a month ago. Three weeks, let's say, three weeks. February 27th.

SPEAKER_03 43:04

February 27. Oh.

SPEAKER_00 43:09

But it's difficult, man. I mean, as well, we had um other tracks when we were like sorting through track stack. We had a different guy working AR at the time, and he rejected probably what would have been a really big track for us, and that still hurts to this day, man.

SPEAKER_02 43:29

Yeah, yeah, it was we can say it was it was a decal track.

SPEAKER_01 43:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:34

And since then we've signed Deco twice, and the like the track that came out on Friday is doing very well, bro.

SPEAKER_00 43:41

I love that track. Yeah, for those for those who miss it, it's a track called Y Lions. Unbelievable, man. I listened to it, I think, like 30 times since Friday. Just something Spotify.

SPEAKER_02 43:52

The first time he sent it to me, I was begging him. I was like, bro, please, up record. And he was like, Yeah. Come back to you, I'll come back to you. It's doing well. It's on 22,000 after a couple days. So that's that's what six thousand a day. It's doing well, man. I'm I'm it's great when you see this type of support. Um listen, if you're listening and you're thinking about running a record label, it's not easy, guys. It's not easy. It's it takes a lot of confidence, I think, in understanding what type of music you like. How can you contribute to promoting the music? And you're gonna you're gonna miss on tracks. You're gonna miss it, you're gonna miss on music. I speak to big labels all the time, and they tell me, yeah, we missed on that one, we missed on this one. Everyone's done it, it happens. It's it it's actually what makes a a label better.

SPEAKER_00 45:01

Absolutely, man. But you know what? I'll I'll I'll take the Converse example where there was a track I'd say, like, you know, I'll give an example. I really liked it, I thought it was a banger. Um sent it to the sent it to the group. All you guys are like, don't think it's the one. And I'm like, cool, all right. Which one? I'm not gonna not gonna say, man. Did it get signed? It got signed. So the the example is that you know, I think it's great. You guys were all like, nah, man. And then you see it get signed elsewhere, and then the performance is just really bad. So then you're like, oh okay, that that was a good decision. You know what I mean? So it it happens in both lanes.

SPEAKER_02 45:41

It happens in both lanes.

SPEAKER_00 45:43

That's what I'm trying to say.

SPEAKER_02 45:44

For me, for me, it's all about having a discussion, understanding why don't you like something? Especially like you and I obviously have a lot more say when it comes to bringing tracks forward and and and presenting tracks for club record. So when someone says no, you want to understand why. Is it the vocal? Is it is it uh the arrangement? What is it about what I'm presenting that doesn't work? I think that I think that's the main thing for me. It's gotta be a conversation. Otherwise, what are we doing?

SPEAKER_00 46:18

I mean, as I get that as well, but for me, it's just like I also like really trust you guys from an instinct point of view. So if you guys say no, I'm like, okay, there's something that I might have missed there. Because if it's not right away, then it's like it's harder to to argue. And then at the same time, I also have this thing like if you if you don't really believe in a track, I don't want to work with it because it's difficult to work on something that you know your team is not fully backing or they don't really feel strong about it. It's like I'd rather just let it go. Do you know what I mean? On occasion, I'll say we have to do it, it's rare, but you know, sometimes if you guys just say no, then I'm like, cool, it's fine, there'll be more tracks.

SPEAKER_03 47:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:03

It's a tough one. But I think I think that if someone really believes in a track, then you have to own it. Like you really have to put in the extra work of setting the track and making the tracks a a success. Yeah. I think I think that's what it comes down to, right?

SPEAKER_00 47:27

Um Yeah, I mean that's a good point too. Listen, it's it's like AR is not black and white. It's really not. It's it's a conversation, it's instinct, it's also technical at times. It's difficult, man. It's difficult.

SPEAKER_02 47:43

But I enjoy it. I enjoy it. I think I think as club record at the moment, the type of music that we are putting out is is varied. It's still clubby, it's still it's still playable music. But we're also in this position where you know there is attention, there is there is good traction. But the sound is changing. The sound is changing so much and so quickly. A bit more afro afro-friendly set. The DJ after me just played Juno. Completely different sound. Completely different sound. That's where it's going more. It's going more for these loopier, longer tracks, clubbier tracks, house is making a strong comeback. This go we talked about. So, as a label, you need to also have this in mind and say, okay, what do we need to showcase to our audience? Can we introduce our audience to a different sound? This is something Shimza was talking about in the podcast. He was like, um, looking at the last lineup that they did at Kunye, they had Mamutora and Arotis, right? And South Africans were like, why are you getting, you know, does this lineup make sense? But he's thinking, I'm providing something that you didn't know you needed. So that as a label, you also have to keep that in mind. It's like, yes, we are an Afro House label, we're known as an Afro House label, but that doesn't mean that that's all our audience wants. We also have to showcase something that maybe they didn't know. You know, can we introduce new sounds, a new genre perhaps? Like, what what can we do that that is a bit different that at the moment is missing in the market? Because, I mean, bro, last week I think I told you about this. I got hit up by a huge DJ, huge DJ. And he's like, What do you think about Afra at the moment? Like, because I'm thinking about, you know, what sounds I'm bringing out, what is the next iteration of my project? And he's hitting me up to just understand where things are going, and I'm just sharing my views. But right now it's a critical moment, I think, in in in our space because the commercial sound isn't being made as much as we think.

SPEAKER_00 50:20

No, it's it's it's not, but I think you know, there's a wider conversation about electronic music in general. I don't think it's just it's just after house. I mean, you know, I could argue as well in the techno scene, um, especially like that that afterlife sound was so prominent for so long, and I think it's really just also on the decline um that darker melodic techno, you know, and where is it going for those guys? I don't know, I'm not tapped in enough, but I don't think it's just us. I think it we're evolving generally, you know.

SPEAKER_03 50:55

Like it's happening across. Yeah. Yeah. I wonder why. I wonder why.

SPEAKER_02 51:06

Cause it's it's electronic music, I would say, is probably the most successful or up there genre at the moment.

SPEAKER_01 51:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:21

Again, I'm not really tapped in into other genres like country or pop. I don't really go to those those type of events. But it it does feel like places like Ibiza DJ-based events are huge at the moment and there's huge opportunities there.

SPEAKER_01 51:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:44

So yeah, I don't know, man. I don't know. It's definitely becoming more popular. It's a lot pop friendlier, I think.

SPEAKER_00 51:52

It is. It's just I don't know, man. It's also like like rap is is dying, unfortunately. Um, it's not as popular as it used to be. What people are going out for is is definitely more like DJs. I think, at least in this side of the world, I'm probably not the same in Europe, but country music is so big in North America. Massive, right? So I think r right now is the time for number one house music and number two um country music. And then we'll see, man. Like I think about it, you know, you think back in the days like in the 70s, 80s, like these bands, ACDC, and you know, it was like a full live band, and that's what people wanted to go out and see. And then now it's like we want to go see a DJ, and then I wonder what it's gonna be like in you know, 15, 20 years. Are we still gonna be interested in seeing a DJ? I don't know. AI artists, AI artists, yeah, exactly. Who knows?

SPEAKER_02 52:47

AI artists, AI artists. We need to we need to find an AI artists guest or someone that creates AI artists. That would be a great, a crazy conversation, actually.

SPEAKER_00 52:56

That would be, yeah, because because it's out there. Like I know Timberland has AI artists. Um, I met a guy at 80 a couple years ago. He had he had AI artists, so it's it's gonna be a thing, man. It's there. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 53:10

Yeah, it's it's it's happening, it's happening. Um, yeah, let's let's say before maybe future podcasts. Also, guys, let us know which guests we need to we should have on. I think now we're we're beyond the the 10 episode. I wanted to get to 10 episodes and then start to have guests on. So now that we're beyond that, let us know which which guests um we should have. Everyone is a DJ episode 12. Wait, anything else? See you next week, guys.

SPEAKER_00 53:47

Peace.