Be Radical in Your Selfcare - A Convo w\ Chrissy

This episode feels very much needed right now, so I am excited to share it with you. In this episode, my guest, Chrissy, and I talk about radical self-care, a concept first articulated by Audre Lorde.

Chrissy gives a great explanation of radical self-care, and then we talk about the ins and outs of radical self-care, boundaries that can prevent it, boundaries within radical self-care, the difference between regular self-care and radical self-care, and why radical self-care is so important.

We talk about how we practice it ourselves, how we do not always do it well, and we share some laughs and personal examples along the way. We also encourage people to take steps to care for themselves within their own capacity.

I am very excited for everyone to listen to this episode, and I hope it helps you.

Please like, share, and follow. If you need a transcript, please send me a DM on the Share a Cup with Me Instagram account, and as soon as I am able, I will send one to you.

Thank you so much.

That's it for this cup. Until next time— keep connecting!  You can follow the podcast @shareacupwithme and Share a Cup with Me on Facebook!  

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:07

Hello everyone, welcome back to Share a Cup With Me. Um, again, it's me, Annie. Don't know I'm telling you this. Um and today our guest is Chrissy, another friend of mine. Um, so before we start off with your topic of self-radical self-care, what if you could be drinking a drink right now? Outside of water, because we've already had that conversation saying hydrated. Um what would it be and why?

SPEAKER_00 0:40

I honestly was thinking about getting coffee before I got an iced coffee, um, because it's a hundred something degrees where we are. Um, but coffee, I feel like I didn't sleep well yesterday. So I've drunk two cups of coffee today, so it probably was good that I didn't grab a coffee. But I would I wanted some more, like a little bit of oop before I came today, but it's funny.

SPEAKER_01 1:11

We're drinking water instead. Yeah, we're drinking water instead. Awesome. Thank you. Okay, so you brought up the topic of radical self-care. Um, so I know we're talking about you want to give a little bit of history. I think that's great because I don't think a lot of people know what radical self-care is, and so I think a history flashback would be great.

SPEAKER_00 1:36

Yeah, yeah. So um I think the history is important of mostly like everything that we talk about. Um, but as far as the history for radical self-care specifically, um, it was created by Audrey Lorde um in 1988. So it's been around for over 30 years. Um, I learned about it a couple years ago, but didn't notice a thing. I think I accidentally stumbled on it. But um, Audrey Lorde was a poet and political activist, and she was writing about self-care when she was battling cancer for the second time. So um I imagine her in like a hospital going through chemotherapy, and if you're familiar with the history of um how people of color were treated in hospitals, it was not great. Um, still not great, but um, she was reflecting on her life through the lens of intersectionality, so her identities as being a black woman, but also queer and being an activist, and so she was like, I need to take matters into my own hands because if the hospital system's not gonna take care of me, then like I have to do it for myself, and so radical self-care, I like to think of it as it's for everybody, but like the creation of it was centered around black people taking back control over mind, body, and spirits. And the quote is to survive in a system that constantly tells us that our wellness isn't important. And I often leave people with the quote by Audrey Laura that's pretty famous. Most people associate with her caring for myself is not self-indulgence, it is self-preservation, and that is an act of political warfare. So that's a little bit background of the history.

SPEAKER_01 3:33

Very right. Um, because it kind of speaks for itself because I've obviously I am not a black person, so I cannot speak to that. But like just hearing stories from like you and others that like if we don't take care of the least of us, then it's just gonna backtrack. And like we need everyone until everyone's on equal footing and cared equally, then obviously we are not we're not following whatever religion that you believe in. Because almost all religions believe in they say they believe in equity, but obviously we don't if we're pushing people aside or we're going to telling people that it doesn't really matter what they're feeling or what they're going through. Yeah, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 4:37

Um, I guess like one of the things that I also like to talk about with radical self-care is that it's different from just like quote unquote regular self-care. Um because when people talk about self-care generally, it's kind of like um, oh, I'm gonna go on vacation or go to the spa, which yes, those are forms of self-care, but not everybody can afford that. Um, and also sometimes regular self-care is very um, I don't know what the word, the best word I'm looking for, but it's very transactional. And so like, let's take that vacation or spay. Once you complete those things, it's like, did that actually like rejuvenate you, or was this just kind of like, oh, let's check this off the box, right?

SPEAKER_01 5:27

Sometimes self-care can also seem very both shallow and materialistic nowadays, which is helpful to some people, and other times it's makes people feel worse later.

SPEAKER_00 5:40

Yeah, yeah. And yeah, you're right. Sometimes it is more of a um quick fix, and it's not really um I don't know why this visual came to me putting the band-aid on, like it's a band-aid fix. So sometimes self-care can fix temporarily, but if you need actual surgery versus a band-aid, then like a band-aid can only do something like that. Yeah, yeah. You knew what I was gonna do.

SPEAKER_01 6:11

Like she was talking about that the problem's bigger than the solution you chose.

SPEAKER_00 6:15

Exactly, exactly. So self-care can be a lot of things. Whereas radical self-care is it intentionally looks at how do I take care of my mind, body, and spirit, which I think that's um separates it from regular self-care because those are such um crucial aspects of the individual's well-being. So um that's another reason I like talking about this topic because sometimes we don't think about taking care of, especially I think spirit is one thing like I think we think about body and physical self-care usually, but I don't think people really associate the mind and spirit with self-care. So that's one reason I like talking about it because it's a little bit different.

SPEAKER_01 7:00

I'm sure people and because like I was wondering, like, what would you consider being taking care of your spirit look like?

SPEAKER_00 7:08

Yeah, yeah. Um, I'm glad you asked that question. Whenever I first like did this presentation, somebody asked me, like, what is the the difference between mind and spirit? And I was like, Oh, I probably should have had definitions included in this talk. So I've learned since then. Um, so we look at the mind as like the mental part of you, so like the part of you that creates knowledge and like reflection, so it's literally the brain like thinking, right? And then the body is just like it sounds the physical body, and then the spirit is centered around having a purpose or being a part of something bigger than yourself. So some examples of that is like love or feeling like your life has meaning, so it's not tied to a specific like religion or denomination. It's do I feel like I'm a part of something bigger and do I have a sense of purpose? Gotcha.

SPEAKER_01 8:04

That makes sense, and I'm sure some some of those overlap, like the mind and the body for sure overlap, and then the mind and the spirit part overlap. I don't know if the body and the spirit overlap a lot, but they could depend depending on the person. But like it's one of those things of like I know in psychology we talk a lot about like how your how you how you are mentally affects how you are physically and how you are physically affects how you are mentally. Right. And it's a concept that we had just started grasping until like the recent years, and then we have like backtracked I feel like about 10 years. Yeah. And so I feel like it's important that people like understand that like you kind of have to do all three of them, which is what I feel like Audrey was saying was like you have to take care of each of these individually so you can take care of yourself as a whole. Would you agree or disagree with that?

SPEAKER_00 9:03

Yeah, yeah. And another part too that I talk about is um the three, so the three elements of radical self-care. Um, so like just to break that down a little bit further, radical self-care is taking care of your mind, body, spirit. But um, Audrey actually came up with three different, like, I guess, um, requirements is probably the probably too technical of a word. But um, so the elements of radical self-care is an emphasis on our self and well-being. Um, oftentimes in underrepresented and minoritized um identities, sometimes you might be that caretaker role in your family, and so with radical self-care, it's taking a step back and it's like, okay, how do I take care of myself? I know that like I have other people to care for, but I also need to take care of myself. So that's one of the elements. Um, the second element is dismantling oppressive systems. So I call these systems and people other people call these systems isms. So, like racism, classism, sexism, anything that you can think of that ends with that ism. Um, those three letters. Um, so dismantling those systems, and again, going back to her thought of okay, if these systems aren't gonna take care of me, then I'm gonna have to dismantle these systems and take care of myself. Um, so it's taking that power back into your own hands instead of relying on those systems. And then the last element of radical self-care, intentional daily routines. I think this is what for me separates radical self-care from like regular self-care because sometimes we look at self-care as um, oh, I'm realizing that I am starting to feel drained, so I need to do something. Whereas radical self-care is not uh, it's more proactive because you're doing things daily to take care of yourself. So this is creating a daily ritual for taking care of your mind, body, and or spirit. So I think looking at one of those three elements and thinking, what can I do for myself in one of these three areas today in a way that makes sense for you.

SPEAKER_02 11:21

That makes sense, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:24

And I feel like we I'm sure when I was listening to you, I was thinking of like small daily habits, but I'm sure people are like, well, I don't want to like have to have to create this huge daily pattern. And like I'm sure that's a struggle that many people have with radical server cutter of like the daily aspect. I don't want to huge have to take learn this daily, long daily habit. And I'm guessing from your nod that you're like, it doesn't have to be a huge system, it just has to be something that you do daily that it could be as small as I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 12:01

Yeah, it can be as small. This is what came out to mind. I'm working on tracking my mood at least once a day. Not I'm not perfect at it, but like um, but like I use an app to like um reflect on my day and select the mood that I was in that day. Um that way at the end of the week I can like reflect on okay, how how was my like day-to-day this week? And like did I tend to be more of like along the lines of tired or did I have kind of more like upbeat moods? So, like, that's a small thing you can do every day. That's just an example of a small thing you can do every day, um, to practice that radical self-care. That makes sense. Um, another thing I I actually follow this graphic designer on Instagram, and her name is Make Daisy Chains. She like, she's a graphic designer and I believe an occupational therapist, which is kind of like two random things, but she has this series called Boring Self-Care, and it's um things like I went outside today, or I drank enough water, or I changed my bed sheets. So those things that are not so glamorous, but it still is self-care. So, like, I think even those types of things that we maybe would label as boring is still like self-care. Yeah, um, and those are sometimes the small things.

SPEAKER_01 13:34

I mean, there's nothing better than like going to bed is like fresh sheets, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:38

Like, oh my goodness, this is great, yes, yes. Um, and then one thing that's on here is asked for help. Um, I know that's something I maybe not be the strongest at, but I don't I won't even call that boring self-care. I know it's on her boring self-care like series, but I think asking for help is self-care because you recognize okay, maybe I do need to reach out um to my community because most people are probably willing to help you if you ask, but it's like making that first step and asking for help.

SPEAKER_01 14:11

Yeah, and I feel like to a lot of people that would feel very radical because especially talking about the communities that have been oppressed a lot, they've had to learn a hard, hard lesson of self-reliance. And it's hard to break that pattern of like, well, if I haven't been able to trust people in the past, why how why should I do it now?

SPEAKER_00 14:35

Yeah, yeah. And um, I think of this, it's not necessarily in the elements of self-care, radical self-care, sorry, but um, I've been reading about just self-care and burnout, and a lot of books recently have said like utilizing your community as a part of self-care or just the concept of community self-care, which I know that's kind of contradictory because it's like community and self, but um having that sense of community can be a part of the spiritual aspect because you feel like you belong to a group, and like being a part of a group, usually there's that shared purpose, whether it's something as simple as a Dungeons and Dragons group, or like it could be a faith or spiritual related group, because you all are probably a part of that group for one common like purpose. Oh, so like I think community is an underrated form of self-care.

SPEAKER_01 15:37

I agree, I would agree with that, and I know you said some people would see it as contradictory, and I can see how they can see it, but I kind of agree with you that like self-care is community-based because I always even if I'm feeling drained when I go, me and Chrissy regularly go to like book clubs together, yeah, but I always feel better after the book club. Yeah. And like we've met people there, and and like it's okay to have like and you should have multiple different communities or like friend groups, because like we can't be there's not really one person, like one group or one person that we can be fully ourselves because we are so also different and have so many different experiences.

SPEAKER_00 16:27

Yeah, it's interesting you say that because I was having a conversation with somebody a couple weeks ago, maybe a week ago, recently, um, and she made the comment, I need friends outside of work because if I talk to other people that they don't even have to work at the same place, but that are the same occupation as her, she's like, I feel like I'm still at work even if we don't work at the same place. Yeah. So she was like, I just need people outside of my profession so that I feel like I'm like not always at work. And I was like, Oh, that's pretty like I never really thought about it like that, but it's so easy to get caught up if somebody does the same thing as you or works in the same industry.

SPEAKER_01 17:09

Um I'm gonna bring up something that you mentioned took me a while back. Okay. Back when it was colder. Let's just say that. Because you we had just gone to a book club, we were walking home or back to our cars, and you said sometimes it's just good to meet friends that you meet at work outside of work.

SPEAKER_00 17:32

Yeah, yeah, that too, because it's just a different environment, and you can kind of let your hair down a little bit because you're not in the work setting, right? Yeah, you could be a little, I don't want to say we're less professional, but like I feel like you you get to take off like the work you and just get to be the you you.

SPEAKER_01 17:51

Yeah, you don't have to be as cautious, yeah, yeah. Unless you don't trust them, but then if you don't trust them or hang out with them, right, right, right.

SPEAKER_00 18:01

Um, I know this is kind of off topic a little bit, um, but I keep seeing things about how we're like the loneliest we've ever been, even though we are connected the most through social media and like the internet and things. So I promise this connects. It makes me think of like how community, I think now is more important than ever, um, because it's so easy to like feel like I have access to people because there's that illusion I think that social media kind of gives, but there's a difference between like and I think online communities have their place, but it's just it's some things just don't hit the same, I guess, online versus like in-person connections. So I guess to clarify with communities, I think like yes, I think it's great to have online communities, but like getting outside and um connecting with people in real life, I think is maybe more beneficial or helpful, or I don't know. What are maybe your thoughts of just like loneliness and like making connections?

SPEAKER_01 19:21

I feel like it's at least for me, it's easier to make connections in person, and I'm sure there's other people out there that would be like, no, I can't talk to people in person. I get so nervous, which is also very valid. Yeah, I'm not saying it's not, but when I'm with someone, I get to read their facial expressions, I get to read their tones, I get to read their bilanage, I get to like and they get to read mine, so like we can immediately know if there's like an actual vibe going on. Yeah. And it doesn't like it doesn't even have to be a per uh intentional like I want to go out there and I want to purposely connect. Yeah. Because I mean the way that you and I met, we had we technically had to talk because we we were in class together, yeah. Um but I just liked how like you were just authentically you and like that's kind of how I feel like the truest connections for him is like you might not like all of that person. I do like a lot of you. That was something that you but I wanted to clarify, yeah, yeah. But like because gosh, who said it? Someone said it to me that like that's why we need friends outside of family, and family and outside of friends, because our family knows our entire history, and then we can have a friend, like I have a friend that I've known her since I was 12. So, like, she basically at this point knows like my entire history, yeah. But it's good if you have an ability to shut down part of yourself, if maybe you're like overwhelmed, and this probably could touch on radical self-care. Of like sometimes you don't want to deal with this side of you, and so you hang out with people that you don't have to use that side, yeah, or you just don't hang out with anyone, and you're like, I am just going to read this book and pretend like I don't exist, it just the story exists.

SPEAKER_00 21:23

Yeah, yeah. I think that's definitely a form of radical self-care. It also made me think of another example. Um, like, I don't know how many industries have like um sabbatical leave, but I know like I had a professor that took sabbatical um for I think a semester. Um I didn't even know that was a thing until it happened. But I feel like that's radical self-care because I'm sure there's there's pressure as a professor to like you know, be there for your students, teach your classes, answer. Emails all of the things, but I think for that professor to make that decision to take time off to like recover from like I don't know what they were experiencing, but um, and I don't know if you continue to get paid or not during styatical, you know, but I think of that as an example of radical self-care, and even if your workplace doesn't necessarily have a styatical where you can leave for an extended amount of time, um, even taking self-care days when you realize, okay, I am maybe struggling a little bit, work's been rough, using your leave if you have it, to take some time off and like separate yourself from your work, I think. Is radical self-care.

SPEAKER_01 22:52

I feel like, yes, I agree with that, especially because at least here in the US, we have this tendency of like, oh, you're going on vacation, like have a great time, tell me how you it is, yeah, and like you have this pressure to make it feel grand and like oh I'm going to like Hawaii or I'm going to like Italy. And then sometimes you're like, I don't want to do anything. Like, I took off five days so I could read five books or like I could binge movies or I could like just like not do anything, or I could like eat all the binge food I want. Like, and I feel like that's also a form of self-care that we need to like rediscover. It's like taking a break can literally mean taking a break from taking a break.

SPEAKER_00 23:42

Yes, yes, and I I don't know. I do think I agree. I think we kind of look at people taking time off as they're going on vacation, like that's kind of the first thought, and sometimes that is legitimate, but you don't have to have a reason. I think that I'm still unpacking for myself, even is like I don't have to have a vacation planned in order to take off. Because I think when you have a vacation plan, it's easy to be like, well, I'm going to wherever and I need to take off, but you don't necessarily need to even have a vacation plan to take off, and so I'm giving you permission to take off. As long as your workplace, you know, you have to leave, and your workplace approves boredom when you lose your job as well. Oh no, no.

SPEAKER_01 24:31

Um no, I agree with that because like that's something I've also had to like struggle with is like, oh, you're taking off, so what are you doing? I was like, I have no money to do anything else. Like I'm taking this time off because, like, so our workplace, if we get over a certain amount of hours, we'll say, Hey, to our supervisors, this person needs to take time off because they have too much time. Yeah, me and Chrissy are notoriously bad at that.

SPEAKER_00 24:58

Yeah, talk about it.

SPEAKER_01 25:01

I've had like I've started taking days off. Like, if I'm like doing something really exhausting, like each time I've moved, I've taken like at least three or four days off. So I I could have time in my space to kind of get like the refill for it before jumping in.

SPEAKER_02 25:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:20

And then like if I'm going to like go, I'm going to a concert on Wednesday, and then I took off Thursday and Friday. Yeah. Because going to concerts are fun, but you're so tired. Yes. Yes. And that is like, I don't know. Your thoughts, Chris. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:41

Um, because I learned the hard way. I went to a concert one time on a Monday night and it started late. Didn't get home till like 1 a.m., maybe two, and did not take off work the next day. And wish I was I wish I did. So I think like that was smart of you to be proactive and even like with the moving, um, because moving is such a transition. Like, you can move in the same city, but you still have to like reset your house and like set it up the way you want. And like, I'm trying to even think of a time if I really took off time moving, and I think outside of the weekend, I don't think I really I don't remember at least at this point. It it I probably maybe I did previously and I just don't remember right now, but um, I like that you proactively take time off knowing like okay, like this is such a big transition, and it's gonna take me time to get adjusted because the times where I like only use the weekend to move, like I feel like I was unboxing things for weeks at a time because like after work you don't really want to do much, and then to like actually make the space your space and decorate, I feel like I feel like there's layers to moving, there's like the move itself, and then unboxing things and then putting things, like figuring out where you want to organize things, yeah, and that takes trial and error of like oh I don't want to reach up there, yeah, when I'm tired or not.

SPEAKER_01 27:09

Um the first time was when I moved like officially out of my parents' home into like that, and like my supervisor's supervisor, because at the time I did have a director when I started this job, yeah. Um was like just take a couple dates, like a cut like a week or so off and like get used to the feel of it. It wasn't even my idea, it was like her idea. And the second time I just didn't want to have to deal with what you're talking about because I probably would have done that, yeah. Um, which benefited me because I also happened to be sick that same that same week, which sometimes we have to be like proactive, like she's talking about, Audrey, to bring it back to radical self-care and her discovery, yeah. Because to build those small daily habits, I feel like brings an ability to create more like less daily but more important habits.

SPEAKER_00 28:05

Yeah, yeah, because that's definitely a habit, and it makes me even think of just transitions in general. Like, yes, moving is exciting, but there's a stress that comes with it. One of my coworkers actually put because I moved last year, and like I was excited about where I was moving, I was gonna be I'm closer to work now, so it cut my commute in half, so like it was a positive decision, but like what for reasons we were just talking about, like just getting used to the space and like setting it up and everything. I feel like it did take a while to get adjusted, and so my coworker and I were talking about that, and she said, like, even positive like stressors still takes about like whenever a transition happens, it still takes like I can't remember how long she'd said I want to say six to eight weeks to really get adjusted, and so I was like, I guess I never thought about it like that, but it's an adjustment, even if it is something like that you are looking forward to.

SPEAKER_01 29:08

I mean, a change is a change. I feel like we always be like, Well, I feel like people in general be like, Well, it was a good change, so you you'll recover quickly, or no, or it's a oh, that was that was uh like a death of a family or a death of a parent. Like people always want to give you more time for like a bad change. And sometimes I'm like, Can I go back to work so I can stop thinking about the negative change? Yeah. Sometimes I'm like, can I have time off to enjoy like this positive change? Right. And so I feel like sometimes it's like everyone's different. Like some people need time to purposely have to think about like what's going on, and then other people still. I'm an overthinker already, so if you give me time off, I will just be ruminating on the problem and not actually doing soul care.

SPEAKER_00 30:02

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But um, yeah, I think though to your point, that's still kind of a routine of like now. I I bet you know for like not just moving, but any type of like big like transition or like even like a concert's not a transition, but like it's still something like it is self-care for you, and you're kind of proactive, you are proactively looking out for your future self by like knowing, okay, if I'm going to with this concert, I'm gonna take off. So, like, I I would say that that's like even a routine for you.

SPEAKER_01 30:38

I guess yeah, I guess it would be. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:42

I'm hoping to create a routine where maybe like um every so often, if it works out well, like like maybe every 40 days or whatever. I don't know what the number's gonna be, so I'm just throwing an arbitrary number. Um, but like I'm gonna take a day off every 40 days or whatever. Um, even if I don't have anything planned, just to like go ahead and put in that leave and kind of have something to look forward to so that I know, like, okay, if I'm having maybe a rougher week, like I know in X number of days I have this day off already. It's like a preemptive, like, oh this it's a me day.

SPEAKER_01 31:21

So like yeah, um my one of my old co-workers got me into the habit of like taking off a day or two around my birthday, yeah. Um, and I think that would be a good thing for people to start doing if you have time. Um just because it's like it's already your day, yeah. Um, I'm sure you'll you're sharing it with someone else in the world, but um, so like why not like take time and like take some time off if you have it? Like, we don't want you to lose your job. Um, yeah, unless you have a drop line deck, then take the time. Um but like to like sleep in, cook your favorite breakfast. Maybe if you have a significant other and like they were able also take it off, maybe like you go do something together, or and like it's that commute is that community part again that we've hit upon. It's like because uh you've already heard her talk. Devin is one of me and Chrissy's friends, and we're trying to figure out a time to get to hang out with her before she moves up up country up to an upper state. Um, but I mean life is hard, so like it's not gonna always work out, but sometimes just knowing that someone wants to do that, yeah, even if it doesn't work out, and sometimes knowing that you want to do that gives just enough boost that you're like, well, we tried. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:58

And I don't know why this thought came up for me, but also like because like you and I both work nine to five, just like standard business hours, and so like having a day off to even like go to the store in the middle of the day, like I know that sounds so simple, but like sometimes I love doing that. I'm like, I have the day off today, and I can go shopping windows in there, and yes, and it's a different experience because oftentimes when you work nine to five, you're having to go either. I don't know too many people that grocery shop before work, but like after work and you're already like tired from the day, and then like sometimes it's so easy to be like, I'm gonna skip the grocery store today and just go straight home. Whereas like if you had the day off, like it's like, oh, maybe I don't have to feel so rushed and like I can kind of shop more leisurely, and you're probably in a different mood if you can shop during the day than like after work or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 33:59

It's kind of one of those things where they tell you not to shop when you're hungry. Yes. Which I have, which sometimes actually works out for me because I'm like, I don't want to eat this right now, so I won't buy it.

SPEAKER_00 34:08

Or even like going to medical appointments, like most offices are not open after work, so like you're either having to like use leave, anyways, to make your medical appointments, or if you're lucky to have um, I know my dentist does um early morning appointments, but not too many do. Um, but those tend to fill up fast because everybody else wants them, and then I know that there's some places that will open up on weekends, but then it's like who wants to really go on the weekend? So I even think radical self-care can be as simple as like having time off to go to your appointments. I feel like that's doubling up because it's that like intentionality and also like taking care of your body too.

SPEAKER_01 34:51

So and like I know there's a lot of people that like have kids. Me and Chris, you do not have kids. Um but like like you're talking, this is like the pressure of like taking care of everyone, yeah. Um and that's like if it's you're taking care of like elderly parents, or you're having to always be the responsible sibling or responsible child, or if you have children, sometimes radical self-care is like I'm taking a day off, but you guys all have to do your own thing.

SPEAKER_00 35:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:24

Um, my mom made a great example of this. So, like me and my sister both graduated and then went off to college, and then we both end up coming back and going to like OSU for college. And my mom's put her foot down gently, not like angrily, but she's like, You guys are welcome back in my kitchen, but I will not be purposely cooking meals for you anymore. You guys are adults, you're on your own. Okay, um, and some people would be like, Well, they're your children, you know what, and but there's a point where like you're an adult, yeah. Yeah, um, and it's also the same, like, if I love my family and I'm always willing to help them out, but sometimes they'll say something like, and you're always welcome to come and do this. I'm like, Oh, that's great. Probably won't be coming enough to do it that time. Yeah. Um, or extended family would be like, come down and visit us. I was like, you guys strain me so much that I'm I'm not mentally prepared to like come down and see you guys. And I know some people would be like, that's not fair to like the families, and I was like, Yeah, but get then again I don't remember if I like which one of my clients when I was seeing the people in counseling that was like they kept giving and giving, and I was like, I can't give out of empty water can. Like, if anything, it's actually even worse because like our mental state and our uh physical being and our spirit um it's like a watering can that is naturally refills, but after a point it doesn't refill safely. Yeah. And so what you're doing is uh what you used to be giving willingly and and it was like in a positive manner, has slowly become bitterized, or and so you're slowly accidentally giving them toxic, which I'm sure if you're a caring person, you you're not purposely doing that, and you're not wanting to do that. But if we don't care take care of ourselves, then we're not replenishing, especially if you're the type of person that's like a giver and you have a lot of takers or a lot of toxic people in like in your life, like they'll just take and take and never actually point out like because we pointed out to each other where I was like, Kissy, if you want to hang out, just like please just let me know. Yeah, or the opposite when it's like, oh, you had maybe a harder day, so I can understand if you want to go home, but like not everyone's that type of person could do that, yeah. So sometimes, like Audrey was talking about, like you have to do it for yourself, especially if the system feeds into that.

SPEAKER_00 38:27

Yeah, yeah. And I mean everything's a system, right? Like your family is a system where you work is a system often tied to capitalism, right? That isn't, um I guess even like your friend group you can look at as a system, even though they typically your chosen people that you have in your circle, but it's still a system, right? Um, so we have all of these systems all around us, um, and systems usually can drive behaviors, and so it is like okay, I know this system exists, I know my family system exists and my work systems exist, but also like what ways can I like take initiative, not initiative, take um control of like what I do for myself, even within these systems, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:20

And like since we're talking about systems, systems have a tendency to get damaged, to get broken, and that always reminds me of the what's the little sister's name in uh the Black Panther? I can't think of but she has a great quote to her brother where she's wanting to improve on something, and he goes, It works fine, and she goes, Didn't I teach you anything? Just because it works fine doesn't mean it can't work better. And it's also the saying of like if it's if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Yeah, I was like, Well, just because it's not broken doesn't mean it can't be improved, right? It's just what she was saying, yeah, and like that is like part of like if we don't take this time to radical self-care, because like in general, we have like she's talking about three different areas of one thing, which means we are in ourself as a system, yeah. Because like we said earlier, if you're not taking care of your mental health, then your physical health will somehow eventually decline. If you're always getting physically sick, then that means your mind is also getting sick just in a different way, yeah. And if you are because I feel like if you're not taking care of your spirit, then you're getting burnt out, which then leads to getting physically sick because you're just overwhelmed at work or hate work.

SPEAKER_00 40:56

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 40:57

And then it affects your mental and yep, it's a cycle, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:02

And I think of even people, just even to that example, um, if you're in an industry where you work with people, and it doesn't matter what age of people, if you are to that point of like you are reaching burnout, that's gonna pour into your work with people, and like I know it's not usually intentional, and you don't want to like snap or be impatient with people, but like if you're not proactively taking care of yourself, then like it's gonna spill over to other things in your life, and hopefully it doesn't impact your work, but it can impact some people's work.

SPEAKER_01 41:38

I remember one of our professors saying to um I was talking to her, or she was talking to a class, and she had encouraged everyone, I think it was during basic counseling skills, and she had said it told to everyone, I want you guys to start looking at getting counselors yourself. And I think someone asked why, or maybe someone made like like a okay, whatever kind of sound. Uh-huh. And she goes, You guys will thank me because um when you are dealing with so much pressure and so much toxicity that's being not given to you but could be expressed to someone in the hopes of getting help or getting guidance or just getting reassurance, it will eventually build on you. And then if you're not seeing someone for that, and there's counselors that are trained specifically on working with counselors, yeah, um, because we are great at walking around things that we talk about, as I know because my counselor point out to me, she goes, Kenny, you're not doing it, and I was like, I know, she goes, Do you? I was like, I do, but I'm not there yet. Yeah. But there's something called transference in the counseling world where if I especially if you're dealing with areas of something that you've dealt with, like I've mentioned before in like my previous podcast, I'm by an area at the time that was why I needed to counsel with was the LGBT area, and like I'm sure you have your own areas, yeah. But like I didn't realize how triggering that would be for me until I started working with them, and even with my own counselor, yeah, that's probably one of the reasons why I got burnt out as quickly as I did, and why I realized I don't think I can do counseling, yeah. And sometimes doing radical self care is kind of realizing I could do this job, I could do this job or do this path really well, but I don't want to. Yeah. And depending on like Like what that path is, whether it's I was gonna get married to this person, and I realized I'm not talking be mean specifically, but like an example. Everyone listening that knows me, don't freak out, I'm not engaged. Um but like in a lot of cultures, specifically in the US culture, we have this what I feel is very toxic, and as both as a past career counselor and as me as a career and career counselor, half of my job is I feel like is to encourage students to like look at it for themselves and be like, is this the path that I want? Yeah, and that can be like anything, not even just careers, could be like someone told me that I should move here. Do I actually want to move there? And does it sound good because like someone told me? Yeah. Or someone is in our tendency in the Christian culture to like push marriage on young girls, and like does do you want to get married, or do you want to get married to get the pressure off your back? Yeah, and like, which is in itself its own pressure, yeah, but like sometimes radical care is like looking at a path that was either chosen for you or you chose it for yourself with all the intention of the world to go through with it, and then something happened, and you have to make the radical decision to be like that's not the right path for me anymore. Yeah, that's not gonna fill fulfill my spirit, as Audrey and you got you talked about. Yeah, that's gonna drain it.

SPEAKER_00 45:43

Yeah, yeah. And I think, and I think we've talked about this even, and I might even just need to add it to my like talks about radical self-care, but um, I'm big on values-based living. So, like, first identifying what your values are, and oftentimes where we find ourselves kind of feeling stuck in life is because it's either we are out of kind of out of whack with our values, or sometimes our values are button heads, like we care about maybe two or three values, but maybe they're in contradiction with each other in the specific situation. Um, so I think to your point, with the context of careers and other things outside of careers, like stu we work with students, so like students um feel this pressure to live according to their parents' values, but it's not necessarily and sometimes it's their first time like questioning, like, okay, was this my parents' value, or is this actually something I value um just developmentally? And they're starting to challenge that for themselves, maybe for the first time. Um, but I guess back to your example, even of like radical self-care, I think could be using your values to make a decision on okay, maybe I thought this is what I wanted to do, but now that I'm in it, it's not what I want to do. Yeah, and I think there's pressure to like maybe because we told people like, oh, I'm gonna do XYZ, and then we tried it and it didn't work out, and so there's maybe like a humility that comes with saying, like, oh nope, I was wrong, but we don't want to tell people that. Yeah, but I rather people try something and then realize that's not for them than to like not try it and then kind of wonder what if, yeah, and I feel like a lot of especially if like if you're close to your family, I feel like there's this pressure that people have that like, well, I don't want to hurt them or I don't want to disappoint them, or well, I don't want to act like I don't like respect them, and it's it's a balance, each person's balance is gonna be a little bit different, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:57

But saying that you have a path that is not your parents' path, or even a friend giving you a suggestions path, yeah, if they're seeing it as well, you don't respect me or you don't appreciate me or you don't love me, then I'm gonna repeat this, I've repeated I said another um Tyler Perry made a great point in one of his videos that he was interviewed in where he was like, I can love certain family members, but I can love them at a distance because when they're close enough to me, they're really toxic to me. Yeah, and that's not gonna work out for everyone. So sometimes it's gonna be strong boundaries, like when I'm with my extended family, uh, certain members of my extended family. My boundary is if you cross this line in a conversation, I'll walk away. Yeah. Um, because that's my way of saying I'm not gonna tolerate your behavior.

SPEAKER_02 49:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:02

And sometimes that's all you can do because some people like to fight to fight, and you actually speaking up is just gonna give them ammo.

SPEAKER_02 49:12

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 49:13

Um and again, that's each person's own like situation, and you should definitely speak out if you know that it's not gonna cause more issues, um, or if they're actually gonna listen to instead people don't want to do that, and that's also I feel like part of self-care is being like, this is especially you're if you're in the minority that you're speaking out for. Yeah, at least in the US, we have a bad tendency of like if you're queer and you're speaking out for a queer, you're just an angry bi person, or if you're in the black community, you're speaking out for the black community, that stereotype that, yeah, and so like sometimes radical self-care is realizing this person's not gonna listen to me no matter what I say, and so I'm gonna take the high world and they can think of whatever I want, but I'm not gonna talk to them, yeah, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 50:11

And boundaries, even like I know this is I mean, boundaries is radical self-care for sure, uh, but not to get too off-topic boundaries. Um, I think sometimes when I'm educating clients about boundaries, they see it as rules of like this is what you can and can't do, which to a point, yes, but boundaries are a protection, and so I think it is self-care. Um, but I always have to give the caveat like you can have your boundaries set, and you you can only control what you can do, and so, like, like you said, some people may want to like argue just for the sake of arguing, and you can't control that, unfortunately, but you can't control, like, okay, I'm gonna walk away, or I'm just gonna like not continue to talk to them in that moment. Um, so I say all that to say boundaries are a form of self-care, but also like people may unfortunately disrespect your boundaries and not are them, so like be prepared for that too.

SPEAKER_01 51:09

Yeah, definitely. I remember when I was talking to my I am huge on imagery when I'm working with my client, my students or my clients, and I always gave the image of like boundaries as kind of like your your physical self or mental self is like a castle, yeah, and your boundaries is how like if you have no boundaries, it's like an open field, and you can be attacked from whichever which way, and then a hard boundary, and sometimes a toxic boundary if you're not careful, is a fortress spit around a castle, tall walls, barbed wire, no access, and then out, and they're like you feel safe, yeah, but you're also isolated, and you're also probably really lonely if you're one of if you're a person that needs interaction a lot, yeah. And so it's like a good boundary, and I think what's the word? A flexible boundary, yeah, is that the word? Yeah, would be like, and it doesn't have to be like going back to the open fill, which I don't encourage. Yeah, it's be like building a drawbridge into your fortress, yeah, and then you only have the access of like who comes in and who comes out, right? Um not to keep someone prisoner, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:35

Yeah, yeah, because it's you choosing what in and out, but you also allow them to be leaving. Allow them to choose when they want to get. I like that analogy in that visual. Oh so we got into different topics, but they don't relate. Um I think radical self-care matters because another I think distinguishing quality of radical self-care and just regular self-care, um, radical self-care takes into consideration a person's identities. So, like I know, like as women, we often get thrown into multiple roles, um, in the workplace, outside the workplace, everything in between. And so it's so easy to push aside our needs because of this. And so, like, that's just one example of an identity. Um, so then when you add the intersections of identities, like self-care can sometimes be harder to like be intentional about. Um, so like I can use myself as an example, um, being a black woman who grew up in a military family. So if any of you listening are military kids, like you know, you know, it's service before self is kind of the motto. So, like um your parents may have to go wherever, um, and you might move around a lot, and so like it's all in the name of like I have this job so I can take care of my make money to take care of my family, but then like sometimes you don't get to make connections when you do move around a lot, right? So, anyways, I say all that to say like those intersecting identities kind of add up of like okay, based on my culture, like we look at things as taking care of other people first, but now that I've been doing my work on myself, I know like I have to take care of myself too. Um, so that's why I like radical self-care a lot because it takes into impact, it takes into consideration the impact of intersectionality of a person's identity.

SPEAKER_01 54:51

I'm sure it also takes into consideration the clashing of different personalities, which um would be hard for like anyone to deal with, but like I know I watched a video because I can't speak to this, but like there's a lot of like cultures within cultures that are getting neglected because of the overall oppressing culture, which is white supremacy, yeah, yeah. Um, and it was I don't have I'm gonna have to like relook her up, but um it was a queer black woman, and she was like, we need to address that there is racism in the queer community, and she is definitely right, there's definitely racism in the queer community, and so she was like, because it's just toxic and it just needs to be dealt with, and again, I agree, and this is something that just needs we need to continually work on it, yeah. Um, because the moment I always had the mindset of the moment I stop learning, or if I stop improving, it's the moment I actually start declining. Yeah, and I know a lot of people are gonna disagree with that, and it doesn't have to be like huge revelations all the time, but I'm always trying to like when you're talking to me about something, I try to listen and not like make it about me, yeah, which is always harder than we think it's going to be, because that's how we connect, how we think we connect, right? But sometimes there's no way to connect, and I've made that mistake in the past, and so sometimes I'm like I've like I want to say like yeah, that sounds similar to like this, but it's not, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:45

And I think like most people, I think you're right, most people do that in order to connect and relate, and I think it's a skill to learn of like even if you have experienced that, like that person's probably coming to you because they trust you. It might be a stranger randomly, sometimes that happens to you. So I think we have to remember like the what's important, what's most important in this moment? Is it that I hear my friend or whoever out and like they feel validated, or like it's kind of like is what I'm saying? I know one thing they teach us in counseling is with self-disclosure, is what I'm saying going to be like therapeutic for the person, or if it feels like it's not, then like, do I even want to like what's the point of disclosing? Yeah, so I know everybody's not counselors that listen to this, but I think in the friend-to-friend context, you have to ask yourself, like, there's a quote that's irrelevant. Yeah, yeah, you find that quote, but I think as a friend, when you find yourself in those moments, like, I bet there's something similar, but like, do I say that or not? I think you have to like look at the motivation for it, like you know your friends best, and so like with this with telling them this actually be beneficial to know that maybe they're not alone, or does it feel like it's not really adding to like healing? I guess.

SPEAKER_01 58:14

Okay, I know what the quote is, I don't remember who it's by, and I can't find it, but another way to think of what Chrissy was just talking about is it therapeutic, is it helpful to my client? A non-therapeutic way of saying of doing that is the three gates of speech, which is is it true, is it necessary, is it kind? And I think we always like to remember the first two, yeah, and then we forget the second, the third one, and I'm just as guilty as anyone on this, but like, is it true? Yes, because you don't want to like don't wanna lie, don't don't lie, don't spread rumors, don't spread like people get angry at me for this sometimes, but they're like, Can you tell this person? I was like, No, I like they're like, I'm giving you permission, and I was like, and I'm saying that I don't know if I'm gonna say it accurately. So if you want them to know the truth, then you need to tell them the truth, yeah. And then is it necessary? Because I saw a video that I absolutely loved. I'm pretty sure I saved, but I don't know where it is, because I save a lot of videos. Um, but it was a friend that had gone to his friend's play, and he didn't like the play. Wasn't the best play, he said. But when she asked him, hey, how'd you how'd you like it? He didn't really like, and he goes, I'm always do my best to be truthful to my friends, but he didn't start off with like I hated the play. He goes, I really loved how you like you were really enjoying it, like I loved seeing you in your passion. She goes, because at the time, one it is true, I didn't like that. Was true, I enjoyed seeing her in her element, being like joyful up there, um, and it was kind, but what he said told what he said he would tell her later that was like the play wasn't the better, but the part of the necessary, I think, that we also need to think about is not only is it necessary for them to hear, but is the timing necessary, yeah. Because like what he was saying was like, Yes, what I said to her was true, but I also was gonna say to her later about like it wasn't my favorite, like for some reason or another, like I didn't really like to play. Yeah, that's also true, but it's also not necessarily necessarily in the time and the timing if he said it when she asked, was also not kind because she had just gone off stage so she had the adrenaline high, yeah, and so like I know this is supposed to be about radical self-care, and this is the part that's radical self-care. You if you're the listener to someone that's saying something to you, and you can tell it's either coming from a bad spirit, a bad heart, bad mind, you can tell that's either not true or not fully true, not necessarily, or it's not definitely not kind. I'm not saying I'm giving your permission, but I'm saying I highly encourage you to walk away, say like, hey, I feel like this is not a great time for us to talk about this, and as someone that's made mistakes at we as we talked about, and as someone that has had mistakes made to them, yeah, because of that mistake, it's you're gonna have to kind of find your own like path through that, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:08

And um, this is something you said to me, maybe uh I don't know, I don't remember if it was earlier this year or last year or late last year, but we were at lunch talking with other people, and um you I don't know if it was you or somebody else that was with this, but um, anyways, something was said along the lines of like there's a difference between being nice and kind, and that stuck with me for a while because I'm like, you know, I think on the outside looking in, most people would think those are the same, but like I kind of remember the conversation. I don't remember. I don't remember the context around it, but it made me even realize like kindness, like that's something I actually am learning to value because to me, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, kindness is like yes, it is being polite and respectful to others, but also like if something hard needs to be told to them, then like you're gonna do it not in a rude way, but like you're gonna do it tactfully and know, like, okay, is this the right time? This person needs to know this hard thing, whereas nice, so to finish that sentence, this person needs to know this hard thing, but I am going to prepare how to like mentally prepare to tell them this and give them that feedback because it's better for them to know it than not. Whereas I think somebody maybe nice would know, like, oh, this person needs to know this thing, but I'm not gonna tell them because I'm scared, like they think I'm being mean or think whatever, right? So, like to me, that's where I feel like the differentiation is between nice and kind.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:48

No, I agree with that. Um, gosh, Devin says something in her episode that like I can't remember, but it's it was very much along all in in those ways. If we were talking about how to deal with hate and how to kind of counteract hate. And she had this great term that I had never thought about before this, which is calling in. I'm gonna call someone in and talk to them versus calling someone out.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:20

And calling someone in would be kind of the kind I feel like, and calling someone out would just be like rude. Yeah. Depending on how you do it.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:31

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:31

Um example of like you're nice and kind. A version of it I heard is like if someone had like a stain on their shirt or something in their teeth, someone that was nice would just like not maybe not say anything because it was like it's uncomfortable and make them uncomfortable and embarrassed, but someone that was being kind would be like, um, hey Chrissy, you have something in your teeth, or um, or if someone said, like, how does this look? I like if I didn't like it, I'd be like, Well, it's not my style, but like if you enjoy it, like that's still being kind, yeah. Yeah, but I feel like nice is superficial, yeah, and kindness is someone my best friend, I think she was like, Annie, I think you would like the East Coast a lot because they're kind, but they're not necessarily nice. Yeah, yeah. Because like she goes, they will help you, but they might it might be obvious that they're not super like it's annoyed them because like maybe they had to take time out of like their day. Yeah, yeah. Versus like someone that was nice would be like maybe they wouldn't actually help you, but like somehow there'd be like ramifications of it, or they have this like bless your heart kind of attitude the entire time. Which makes you feel like, well, just leave me on the side of the road if you can act that way.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:05

Yeah, exactly. Um I always talk about too with radical self-care that it's important because we all so I think we get tied up in work a lot and we get tied up in our titles and like the roles that we have, but we all have identities outside of work. So it's important to remember that. Um, that we're humans first before we're whatever our occupation is. Um, we all have our own lived experience or sometimes experiences with some of those isms, classism, racism, sexism. Um like you said earlier, too, just the overlap of like mental wellness versus system, right? So the overlap of how our different aspects of wellness connect to each other. Um sometimes we may, I don't know what everybody does for work that listens to this, but we may have our own vicarious trauma like in the workplace or maybe outside the workplace. So, like we may not have gone through a trauma ourselves, but like we might have friends or family members who have, and they share that with us. That's still vicarious trauma, even if you didn't experience that, and so like you still need to take care of yourself, like, even if you didn't directly experience a vicarious trauma, and you may not have that vicarious trauma in your life, but maybe just like the emotional exhaustion that comes with like work and everyday life. So, I think like we may not hit all of those points, but I think everybody can relate at least to emotional exhaustion at the bare minimum. Yeah, but yeah. Also, I think one thing we didn't talk about um barriers to self-care. Some people may have barriers to self-care, whether it's time, um, cultural expectations. So I'd even challenge people that have those barriers that that probably means you that's even more critical for you to practice that radical self-care. So maybe like it is looking at what can you integrate into your daily routine that maybe doesn't take as long, um, so that you can be more intentional about self-care.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:27

Yeah, I agree. It's hard to figure out where also because like I feel like part of that is sorry, just like that's kind of my self-care a little bit in a way.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:45

My screensaver. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:50

Let's see if we can't get back on focus. That was me, I shouldn't have looked. But sometimes like the boundaries are cultural and like are Disney like based, and sometimes we think they are, but only because like we've built them up to be, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:11

Yeah, like we haven't kind of like challenged, I guess, the status quo in a way, but um, I like that piece of radical self-care because sometimes when you're working with different cultures, you can't just be like, oh, you need to set boundaries with your parents, and it's like, oh, they come from a culture where that's like really none, it's seen as disrespect. It's like okay, maybe it's not about setting boundaries, or it's maybe it's setting boundaries in a different way than like Americanized views of boundaries. So I like that radical self-care views things from a cultural perspective because like you can flex it and like make it fit as appropriate based on your culture without compromise, feeling like you're compromising values.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:59

Yeah, yeah no, and I wish more counselors would say this or do this, is like when I work with my students, like the first thing I tell them is you're the one that knows you the best, so you need to figure like everything I'm giving you are just literally suggestions and information, so yeah, please disregard anything I'm saying or adjust it. And so if you're seeing a counselor and you feel like that's not culturally sensitive or culturally act culturally active to me, yeah, then I feel like and Devin has said this in an earlier one, you because we're all three, all four of us have talked because Dee's also a counselor, yeah. Um you either have a right to push back on your therapist and be like, can you do some research on some things I can do that are culturally appropriate to me? Yeah. And if they don't listen to you, then you have a right to be like, I would like to switch therapists if possible. Yeah. And unfortunately, there might not be a lot, and me and Devin have talked about this, not on the podcast, but yeah, there's not a lot of culture appropriation and traditional counseling, and there's also not a lot of different identities culturally in counseling, yeah. And there might be a reason for that, and I don't know it, yeah. Um, it might be that they're actually creating their own versions of it elsewhere, maybe just community-based like we talked about. But if you're seeing the counselor and you don't feel like it's working out for you, and your counselor has not told you this, you have a right to change counselors. That is built into the counseling system, whether they tell you or tell don't tell you.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:05

Yeah, and I think some people feel like kind of going back to what we talked about when there's expectations from like parents to like you should do this one career, and so that relates. I think sometimes with counseling, is you feel like oh because I started with this person, like I have to continue, and like that is actually not true. Okay, it's been like almost an hour and a half, so I can gap about this clearly for a while.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:40

So, to close off, before we go on to the question, do you have anything else you want to say to the audience?

SPEAKER_00 1:12:48

Um, I'm trying to think.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:50

You don't have to say anything else.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:52

I just wanted to give you an opportunity. But maybe like because this is something I was going back and forth on saying when you were talking about counselors and um there's not a lot of diversity in our field. It could be better. It's we're working on it, but um, I say all that to say everything is a system, and when you think about the education system of kind of the counselor pipeline, um, there's a lot of barriers for uh marginalized identities um to it's not necessarily the access to like programs because there's a lot of counseling programs out there, it's everything after college. So, like once you graduate, you have to do so many things in order to get licensed, and it's a lot, and sometimes people have to choose between like, do I want to like finish out things or do I want to look for other opportunities to maybe make more money or maybe be less stressed and feel less overworked? So, like, there's a lot of like barriers after grad school that I think gatekeeps more diversely in our field.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:04

Yeah, and I believe you mentioned this earlier in the podcast, but like in our conversation. So, like for areas that are marginalized, they also come with like extra responsibilities. Yeah. And so they're getting more pressure, which means they're getting burnt out quicker. Yeah, which means they are having to either leave counseling so they can take care of themselves, or by the time someone of their own community gets to them, they have nothing left to give them, safely at least.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:37

Yeah, yeah. So that's a whole nother like that's gonna be a whole different podcast, though. But like I wanted to like no, I get it. I also just wanted to add that. No, no, I get it. I get it, I get it. Okay, stay focused.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:54

Sorry. I'm just as bad at that as you are. Okay, I kind of did give you a little bit of a warning for this one because I'm not sure it helped. If you can have a drink with anyone, past, present, real fiction, yeah, what it would be and why. You can also have what you'd be drinking with MMY, but that's not actually part of the question.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:22

Yeah, it should probably be coffee for the drink. I feel like that's the easiest to answer. Um, just I'm gonna go with this because I had several options come up, but like um my great-great-grandma, um I would want to meet with her just to like know some of like family history, because like I kind of stumbled on ancestry.com and found her information, which is so wild. So my mom, my mom's family is from Mississippi, but my great great grandma, I saw her birth certificate, and she actually lived in Muskogee, so I'm thinking was involved in Trello Tears, unfortunately. So I'm like, the fact that I have like I promise you, my mom's whole like family pretty much lives in Mississippi, and so the fact that I do have a relative relative that lived in the same state as me years ago is kind of wild. So eventually the family must have gone back to Mississippi, so like I would just like to learn like that like history and that side of me. Um, and like also it's like you know, living on Native American land, like some tribes did include enslaved people as part of their tribe, and some tribes didn't. So I'm like, okay, like it'd be cool to like if that's another side of me, like that'd be cool to learn about that history. So like long story short, I just want to like be able to talk to her to like learn more about like her and also my family. That's cool, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:08

Well, thanks again, Chrissy, for welcome, for letting me talk to you on this podcast. Um, so this will be this is the July one, so come back next month in August for that next episode. Remember, stay kind, stay compassionate. Um and we love you.