Trust in Relationships: The Invisible Bank Account

As you may have already heard, trust is the foundation of every healthy relationship, but what many couples don’t realize is that they are constantly and somewhat slowly tearing it down. 

In this episode, we explore the powerful “trust bank account” analogy and how everyday actions can either build trust and develop a hefty "trust bank balance"  or cause damage or what we like to call, "withdrawals from our trust bank account". 

We discuss eight common areas where trust often becomes depleted in relationships and why these patterns can quietly lead to emotional bankruptcy over time. Most importantly, we talk about how trust can be rebuilt after it has been broken and the practical steps you can take to restore security, faith in your partner, and long lasting love in your relationship.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Hello everyone and welcome to the official Fascinating Womanhood podcast where we explore timeless principles for developing true femininity, inspiring authentic masculinity, and building strong, loving, and lasting relationships. I'm Cherry Lynn and I'm here with my mom, Dixie Andolyn Forsythe. Together we'll dive into the heart of what makes relationships thrive, offering practical wisdom and heartfelt conversations to help you live a more fulfilled and fascinating life. Today we are talking about trust in your relationship.

SPEAKER_01 0:35

This is a really big topic. We actually did a YouTube video about this a few years ago. It's really old and it's not very detailed. I actually watched it when we were preparing for this podcast, and I couldn't believe how many things we left out of that video because this is just such a big topic. So I'm really excited to discuss this with you today. We're going to go through the eight most common trust issues and how to build and restore trust. But before we get into those eight common trust issues, Mom, do you want to talk a little bit about how we like to frame the topic of trust in your relationship for people to understand a little better?

SPEAKER_02 1:16

Yeah, I'm more of a concrete person rather than abstract. So it really helps me when I learn to think of relationships kind of like a bank account, because we all understand bank accounts. And so if you think of your relationships with anyone like a bank account, for example, when you first meet someone, someone says, Hi, this is Joe Blow. And you you you have no reason not to trust them. So you give them a certain amount of trust just based on the fact that they maybe you're pleasant. And then when your relationship, if it does go on from there, it isn't just a one-time meeting, you you tend to add to the bank account, like the way you're treated of the things you say, and you do it to each other. You each have a bank account on the person. But like let's say, for instance, you meet Joe Blow, and then you arrange later to get together and say, come on over next week. And he says, I'll call, and he never does. The bank account gets a withdrawal. And you know, the the deposits are things like, oh, you know, so nice to meet you, and they're nice and they're pleasant. Think I like this person. Then they make either a deposit to it or they make withdrawals. And that's kind of how people are with each other. Now, when it comes to marriage, we put a lot more deposits in. And we can sometimes make a lot of withdrawals. Now, the idea is if you have enough of a bank account built up with a person, you can handle quite a few withdrawals as long as the withdrawals are due to human error, not just deliberately. So because that will make the withdrawal even worse if they deliberately use your goodwill and your trust for them. If you've ever been in a relationship with somebody and they make such a huge withdrawal, you feel like there's nothing left. That's what we call uh bankrupt. And sometimes they not only bankrupt it, they owe money. They've gone underground, not just level. So that's how we how we think of relationships. If we can during this podcast, we can talk talk about it as like withdrawals or deposits, and we can talk about different areas of a relationship and what that looks like.

SPEAKER_01 3:22

Yeah. And I think it's what I love about the bank account analogy is that it really helps you to recognize what's happening in your day-to-day. Because I think a lot of ladies that write into us and ask us about this, they don't recognize that there has been a withdrawal that day or in that moment. And we have full control over the value on those withdrawals. Are you placing value on him? You know, let's just say spending money without telling you, is that several hundred dollars out of your trust bank account, or is it ten dollars? We all have that threshold that we have to decide.

SPEAKER_02 4:02

Now, this is assuming you're married to a basically good man. Or if it's not marriage, if it's uh a relative, it's a basically good person, not someone who is a sociopath. You know, that the rules are all different for that. You don't really have good bank accounts with those kind of people. But when it's a basically good person, then look at his intent. Because sometimes we think of something that someone does as a withdrawal when actually we didn't understand their intent. And if we did, we might think, well, they meant this. And so that so the bank account, the withdrawal isn't as great, is maybe cut by half.

SPEAKER_01 4:41

Yeah. So there's a lot of different pieces to this bank account analogy, and we're gonna refer to several different parts of it while we go through these eight things, because I think it's important to address eight kind of topics or areas and give tips within those areas while using this kind of bank account analogy to help everyone kind of you know understand it more, make it a little bit more digestible because this can become so nuanced depending on what's going on in your relationship. And you you mentioned in the beginning a little bit about meeting a friend or meeting someone. And I think that's one kind of part of this topic is just the people that we interact with. But then there's your marriage and how it applies to your marriage, and that changes it a little bit. So we're gonna jump into these eight areas that are the most common trust issues and talk through each one. So the first one I think is probably the most common for your everyday, and it is it relates to social media slash snooping. So that we're talking about that going on his phone, getting in his computer. This may not even be a marriage. This may be that you someone you're dating, or it could be your marriage, but it's about that trust of what are you doing on your devices.

SPEAKER_02 6:00

Yeah, now I would ask the question, what causes someone to want to snoop? Maybe it's a dating situation and they've been burned before, and so they they have this expectation, potential expectation going into a relationship is this is familiar to me. I have to make sure he's not cheating on me because my last boyfriend did. Or maybe it's because he's done something that you are suspicious of.

SPEAKER_01 6:28

Right. And this is where I like to go back to the the bank analogy and say that your credit score in your relationship is kind of low. I think that's where uh several of these are that's gonna be a root cause of some of these that we're gonna talk about. But social media and snooping, it's almost like you're saying, okay, my credit score in my relationship is really low. AKA, I feel insecure. I feel like the accounts low. We have had some problems, or you, like you said, have had problems in the past with someone else. And you therefore that morale, that trust, that we like to say the credit score in your relationship, it's kind of like that. You feel uncertain.

SPEAKER_02 7:12

Well, and if it's something from your past, uh you need to take responsibility for that because you say, wait a minute, I have felt betrayed before. Am I putting that into this present relationship and assuming it? Uh let's say you're married and you're but your parents had that in their relationship and you don't want it in yours, you see similarities. Exactly. And so you you uh you judge the person. So the credit score is partly up to you and partly up to him.

SPEAKER_01 7:44

Right. And I think this is also a moment where you have to say to yourself, Am I being paranoid? Am I too sensitive? Am I making this up or is it really valid? And maybe he has broken trust, and we'll talk a little bit more about that in a minute. But maybe he has given you a reason to feel like you should snoop. But what's the problem with that?

unknown 8:07

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 8:10

It's a major boundary jump. Some I've known some men when they found a girlfriend snooping, that's the end of the relationship. It bankrupts it. Even if you're married, to just assume it, you need to have an agreement between you. How do you feel about me looking at your emails? Uh, I don't care if Bob looks at mine, but I've never felt suspicious enough to say, can I can I look on your phone at you? Because he would think, Don't you trust me? It depends how you do it. We just never care.

SPEAKER_01 8:40

I think you said it perfectly there is that you are making a huge withdrawal by doing huge. Let's just say you you you find something that you're a little suspicious of. Well, okay, he's with he's made a withdrawal because you found something, but you also made a withdrawal. And try not to take out these withdrawals.

SPEAKER_02 9:01

It's sort of like if your husband or your friend has a journal and you just go get into it and read it or reading their letters. It's a kind, it's a boundary jump. If they don't give you permission, uh verbal permission, don't do it because it's it's it's saying, I don't trust you.

SPEAKER_01 9:18

Well, and I think with that one, with like your journal and your personal devices, I almost like to think when you're going back to the bank account, it's kind of like when you have a joint account with your husband and then you have a personal account. And to me, that's almost like you're double withdrawing. You're withdrawing out of your joint and you're withdrawing out of your personal. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:37

Just if if you if you were suspicious of something, there's other ways to get around it, then don't break the boundary. Don't do it.

SPEAKER_01 9:46

Yeah, snooping is a big one. The second one is promises, little everyday, it could be big ones, but I think more commonly it's those little everyday promises. Sometimes it could be that big promise down the road, but it's just those little tiny things that add up.

SPEAKER_02 10:04

Yeah, it's when you become conditioned to think he says he's gonna do this, but he never does. Rather than what we yeah, if you've realize over time, I can't count on him. He says he will do, he says he will do this, he says he will do that, but he says it sort of offhand. He doesn't actually intend to do it. It's not an accident.

SPEAKER_01 10:24

Do you think men do that more than women? Do you think it's pretty balanced?

SPEAKER_02 10:29

I think it depends on on the person. Women, women can do it too. They can they can, oh yeah, yeah, I'll take care of that, and then they forget all about it. And and and fine if it happens occasionally because a person's a little absent-minded. But when it becomes a habit, then you start to feel like they don't really have any respect for me.

SPEAKER_01 10:48

Right. And I think there's also that, you know, what we talked about earlier, how much you're what what value are you placing on that promise? And and is it reasonable?

unknown 10:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:00

So if he forgets to take out the trash and your your value on that as a broken promise is tremendous. In the grand scheme of things, like you have to check that perspective and say, okay, is this that bad? Is this really that bad?

SPEAKER_02 11:16

Well, and I and you can also look at it another way. For me, I am grateful that my husband is um, he may forget to do something once in a while, but he also isn't that hard on me. So, in other words, how would I feel if my husband was as took a big withdrawal out of something I forgot to do, or I was just preoccupied in in and that became a big withdrawal for him. That would make me feel like I was a little bit on eggshells.

SPEAKER_01 11:47

Yeah. And I think some I know we've said this in the past that you should never keep score in your relationship. And in a way, the bank account analogy is kind of a score-keeping system, but I think it's actually a healthy one when you're talking about this foundation of constant hurt feelings, needing to build that foundation. I think it's in in a way, it's it's also getting you to treasure hunt, if that makes sense. It's getting you to say, okay, well, maybe he made a withdrawal today, but he made a deposit, so I'm gonna let it go, versus having a tally and saying, okay, this one was out, the score is here and I'm here. Yeah. It's about kind of balancing, like we say with with finances. You're you always want to balance things.

SPEAKER_02 12:38

And and try not to be the score keeper, because this is more of a bank account situation with how is my bank account? And when you have a lot of deposits, keep track of the deposits that are this is what we also try to teach women is be aware of the deposits instead of someone just putting it in and you're not even aware, they've just put$100 in there.

SPEAKER_01 13:02

Exactly. Because if he takes if he forgets to take the trash out, is that a dollar withdrawal? But earlier that day he made a$500 deposit. It's like you just need to let it go. And it allows you to see it that way and be more aware of it. Because I think sometimes us as ladies, we're so sensitive. We have hormonal changes, we have a lot of times in our life where we can be very sensitive and not recognize it. And these are times where you can say to yourself, okay, well, how big of a deal is this? It allows you to have perspective in a very digestible way.

SPEAKER_02 13:40

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 13:42

Okay, that was promises. The third one is jealousy. I think this one ties into that first one, but it can get a lot more serious than just snooping. Jealousy can be something that is on your mind full time.

SPEAKER_02 14:00

Well, there's a reason the nickname the nickname is the green-eyed monster because it is kind of a monster. It can be. You know, there's so many ways to be jealous. I remember when our you kids were younger and I had babies, and dad would uh uh Bob would go off to work and he always dressed up in a suit and he smelled amazing. And I I had a a spit-up cloth on my shoulder and didn't get to dress up. And um, and there was times I was I was jealous that he got to look and smell great all day. And sometimes he'd call me and say, I'm just sitting around visiting with my colleagues, and I thought, I'm not, I'm cleaning up throw-up. And and but then I reminded myself one day I need to appreciate what I'm in now because one day my kids will be grown and they won't be right here. And so I I dealt with that. Now that's not a serious jealousy. I just thought I wish I had more of that, but it it's it's still it still can hurt the relationship if you let it.

SPEAKER_01 15:00

Right. I think that the jealousy, again, you have to go back to this personal account that you have. You have a personal bank account, and if your personal bank account is really low, the credit score in your relationship is really low, this is you're gonna have problems. And that's the core of it. And you need to work on that. And part of this is you recognizing that you have these insecurities. You have, and maybe you have reason, good reason to have these. Maybe you have been uh hurt in the past.

SPEAKER_02 15:34

Uh, maybe you've been hurt several times. Well, sometimes uh jealousy can arise from just your own self. Like, for instance, for me, I know over the years there've been a lot of women who have at the hospitals who flirted with Bob, and if they could take him away from me, they would. But just because they do it doesn't mean that he's gonna respond to it. But I was afraid sometimes because uh they got to dress up and go to work, and I didn't. That that kind of threatened kind of a thing, you know, and he would say to me, Well, aren't you glad you're the one I chose? You're the one I chose. And sometimes we don't we don't think of that. We think, well, what if, what if, what if? And jealousy can um, especially misplaced jealousy, can really damage a relationship if you don't get it, if you don't cut a perspective on it.

SPEAKER_01 16:27

Yeah, and I think we we have to go back to that snooping one where when you are showing that jealousy, if he gets any kind of impression that you are jealous or constantly jealous, you are withdrawing from him, you are withdrawing from the the trust account. And I think that's the part that a lot of ladies don't recognize is that if you are regularly showing some sort of jealousy over whatever it is, that is withdrawing. And for him, it could be hundreds, it could be thousands, it could be pennies. It depends on the guy, it depends on what he's doing.

SPEAKER_02 17:05

We don't want him to withdraw from he'll withdraw too.

SPEAKER_01 17:08

And this is this is the thing is it all adds up. And if you are like my husband, for example, he used to travel all the time, all the time for work. He has a new job now where he doesn't, but he used to for years he was gone for a week or more each month. And I could have easily been jealous of female uh coworkers that he had to go to meetings with and has to go to dinners with. But because my trust bank account is so high, it's it's been we've had so many deposits in all the years we've been married. I was fine, I've I've always been fine with it. And when we talk when he's um away and we we chat about our day, that's a deposit. It's a very full deposit in my eyes. So I think you have to recognize okay, I don't want to make a withdrawal by showing him that I don't trust him because I don't want to damage.

SPEAKER_02 18:09

Well, yeah, if you're on the phone with him and you're constantly acting like you don't trust him, who are you having to that can ru that will ruin your phone call and the the atmosphere between you instead of uh a deposit, it could be a withdrawal just on the phone.

SPEAKER_01 18:25

Exactly. And you're gonna get a sense of that lack of trust. If there really is something that you sh that you have to worry about, you're gonna get a sense in other ways. It's yeah, that's the thing about snooping and jealousy is that I think a lot of ladies have this idea in their mind that they need to catch him. I'm gonna catch you. Yeah. When you're doing that, you are withdrawing.

SPEAKER_02 18:48

Yeah, and he might be too.

SPEAKER_01 18:50

Well, and there's other other ways to determine and find that. There's other ways to recognize that you don't have trust aside from accusing. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 19:03

There will be other signs. Accusing someone tends to bring out their defensiveness instantly. And so it doesn't work very well.

SPEAKER_01 19:12

Exactly. Okay, the fourth one is emotional availability. So this has to do with him kind of, I think we hear about this all the time. He's put up this wall, his mind is somewhere else. I hear this all the time too. He's pulling away from me, and I don't know why. This is this can cause, especially us ladies, we get kind of sensitive. We jump to that trust withdrawal because he is doing something else. He's not paying attention to me, he's distracted. All of those things fall under that.

SPEAKER_02 19:47

How I look at that is this is where understanding men really helps because sometimes your husband may be going through something very stressful that he's trying to deal with and not really communicating it to you because it's something he has to deal with. And there's nothing he can't think of anything you can do anyway. So he'll withdraw to what we call his cave. And when men do that, they're not really paying that much attention. Sometimes it's an escape uh for them. And it's not you personally. They may not even be aware that they're doing it. So understanding his intent plays into that, understanding him. And if he's emotionally withdrawn, you can ask him, is this a good time to talk? And you can say, I just say, Can we talk a little bit? I miss you. And and request it. It's it's a sensitivity to him, and that's relying on your assumed, already pretty solid bank account that you've built up. He hasn't always been that way. You actually married this guy, so he hasn't always been that way. So what's going on in his life? So it's that's part of understanding men.

SPEAKER_01 20:56

Yeah, I agree. I think this one is so much about unfortunately, us ladies think that men think the way we do. And even you and me, that you and I both are so so seasoned with fascinating womanhood, I have to catch myself doing this too. All the time. All the time. Because it's so natural for us to be like, well, why didn't he approach it this way? Why isn't he saying this? Why isn't he talking to me? We have to remind ourselves, at least I do anyway, almost all the time about the way that men think. And they don't process things the way we do. When there's a problem between the two of you, his first gut instinct isn't, let's go talk about this for two hours. That's not what most men do to solve a problem. They tend to, not all men, but they tend to be a little bit more withdrawn when they are stressed, focused on something else, you know, trying to process some sort of problem. Uh you name it, they're they're usually withdrawing a bit more than we are when they're. There's a problem.

SPEAKER_02 22:01

Well, and I don't know about all men, but I know with um with Bob, sometimes he's on his phone, and I don't know what he's looking at. It may be some some some article that's really interesting to him. But I'll say, Bob, and he'll say, Yes. He isn't really hearing me. It he thinks he can multitask when he actually can't very well. So so that can be frustrating, but he's done this enough. I know him. I know exactly why he's doing and what I need to do. If he's like that, I usually just wait just a minute. If it's something important, I say, I have something I really need to say. Exactly. Can you do you have time to talk to me? Because those, if you don't, those little he's he's ignoring me. I'm not important. Because he thinks he can multitask when he actually isn't very good at it.

SPEAKER_01 22:51

But see, that's you also on not like subconsciously having a low credit score. You're thinking, oh, you know, maybe it is a good bank account, but you're just feeling like there isn't a lot of success right now in the relationship. You're getting doubts, totally normal, all normal stuff. And it's important to recognize that. That, oh, is this kind of coming from me? Is some of this coming from my sensitivity, me not understanding what's going on with him, that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_02 23:22

Well, me needing him and him having no idea that I do, and and just uh having to say, Why don't we do the upfront thing? I really would like to talk to you. Let me know when you're when you're free to talk.

SPEAKER_01 23:35

That's so important what you just said. Like when you have when you're free, can you do A, B, or C? That's so specific because if you're saying to him, hey, I need you to help me, I'm upset. Yeah. That is so incredibly vague to a man. Like us as ladies, if I had a friend say that to me, I would know what to do. I mean, most of the time, let's just be honest, we know how to help each other. He doesn't know what you need.

SPEAKER_02 23:59

Well, I also, and I'm I can't be alone in this. I know I'm not. A lot of times we tell a man our problems and he thinks we need him to solve it and we don't. So it's better to say up front, I just need you to listen to me, because that gives him a task. He's always looking for a task to do. You get say, I need you to listen to me. I need empathy because I went through something really hard today. Then he approaches listening as a task. We're just built differently.

SPEAKER_01 24:25

I always say to my husband, Do you mind if I vent to you for a minute? I'm really upset about something. Then he knows you're not upset with him. He knows exactly what to do and he listens. And sometimes these ladies out there listening might actually want him to do something, but that's where we'll say, please, please, please be specific with him and what you need him to do. Hey, I don't know what to do about this. What do you think I should do? I love your ideas. Or, hey, we haven't been, let's say it's something with your kids. Hey, uh, I'm worried about this child. What do you think we should do? I love your ideas about A, B, and C with this child. I want to be on the same page with you versus this child's driving me nuts, and I can't stand it anymore.

SPEAKER_02 25:09

Well, okay, so then he'll think, oh, I have a task, I have to solve it. And when in fact he may not be able to. And we're telling you all this to show you how your understanding him can help you from making unnecessary withdrawals.

SPEAKER_01 25:25

Okay, emotional availability. That's a good one. The fifth one is little lies, and specifically like little tiny, I almost like to say it's like hidden fees on your credit card. Little things that sneak up on you, little lies, and this includes white lies too. This happens all the time. I'll say something to him, and I kind of can tell he's not listening. Yeah. And so when it comes down to him needing to remember that thing that I told him, he'll say, Yeah, I remember you telling me that. And you know he didn't. I know that he didn't. And so this is one of those things where it's like a penny withdrawal. And I think some women think of it as a thousand dollar withdrawal. And I think it depends on what it is, of course. If he says, Hey, I was working late last night and then he wasn't, he was doing something else. That's not a little lie. That's a big lie, in my opinion. We're talking about little lies that I think a lot of us ladies think are way bigger than they are.

SPEAKER_02 26:25

Yeah, it's actually an ego-saving thing, not anything he's he's trying to, he's trying to have done everything perfectly and he doesn't want to be caught and say, sorry, I wasn't listening. Yeah, I get I get it. I I've had that too. I'll say, I'll say, I'll wait till you're done. He goes, I heard everything. You said this, and he he only said what I said like two minutes before. He zoned out during the last part. And so I I know that it's that he hasn't been listening, but there's no point in proving it because it just it just causes more withdrawal.

SPEAKER_01 26:59

Yeah, well, and there's also husbands that will say that they think that someone is um, I don't know, like unattractive, but then you find out later that he thinks they're attractive and like, hey, why did you say that? When you know, little misunderstandings that I think sometimes guys do because they they maybe don't want to hurt our feelings or they don't want to come across as a bit of a jerk. So they'll they'll say something that they think we want to hear, and then we take that as okay, this is a huge withdrawal in our trust bank account.

SPEAKER_02 27:33

Yeah, when you think of it as a bank account, too. For me, I don't think, I don't think this is anywhere near going to be anything serious in our relationship. It's just, I mean, and when you compare it to a bank account, no one has a bank account that they expect to never take withdrawals.

SPEAKER_03 27:51

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 27:52

Yeah. There always are because you're not perfect, there always will be withdrawals. That's why you put a bunch into the bank account.

unknown 27:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:59

So it's really padded so you can have the withdrawals.

SPEAKER_01 28:02

I know another example of a little lie, and I think this is one that we hear a lot um from a lady in our Facebook group. She says that there sometimes she'll be watching TV with her husband, and there'll be someone attractive, and she'll kind of notice that he seems attracted to the person on the TV. And he'll she'll uh she'll kind of confront him about it and he'll be like, no, no, no, no, no. But she knows that he's lying. She can tell. I think that's another example of not only the little lies that can make us paranoid or make our our credit score feel low, but it's also dips into that jealousy. Yeah, yeah. Slip into that, you know, and then you got both of these things going on at the same time, double withdrawal.

SPEAKER_02 28:45

Well, that's there's some things that we say to men that aren't really fair. They're kind of asking for withdrawal. Like, does this outfit make me look heavy? Yeah. You don't really want to he if he says yes, he's cooked. And if he says no, and he doesn't mean there's some things you just shouldn't ask.

SPEAKER_01 29:05

Well, and some ladies will jump to, well, you're lying, and they get really, they get really focused and obsessed with that word. You're lying to me. Well, okay. Is he what's he what's he trying to like? You said before, what's his intent? Yeah, what's the intent here? And is this where what's the perspective here?

SPEAKER_02 29:27

He's trying to not be painted into a corner that you can't get out of. I mean, you don't, you just don't. There's some things you say, does this look good on me? How can he say no? Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 29:39

But there's also um, are you upset today? Or are you mad at me? And you know that he is, but he might say no, and you think to yourself, he's lying.

SPEAKER_02 29:48

And you know that he is.

SPEAKER_01 29:49

Yeah, I think that's another one of it that's that's common is that you the problem isn't necessarily that he is lying. The problem is that are you obsessing over it and is it that big of a deal? And maybe it is, it might be a big deal, but I think we have to look at this with focus and say to ourselves, is this a huge withdrawal or a small one?

SPEAKER_02 30:13

Yes, and I think you'll find most of us will find that most of them are small. Things that are annoying, those are small withdrawals.

SPEAKER_01 30:23

Okay, the next one is past trauma, which kind of we like to call it baggage. Past meaning free your relationship or in your relationship, and it's and this starts to get more severe. So I think the next three are the most serious. So this one and the next two will get a little bit more into how to repair because past trauma could be from another relationship, or it could be from your relationship, and you're trying to restore a bankrupt account.

SPEAKER_02 30:57

Well, a past trauma could be, let's say he's served in the military and has some really stressful things, and that bleeds into the relationship, his inability to uh, you know, he might lash out, he might have flashbacks, things that you didn't cause, but he has to deal with.

SPEAKER_01 31:14

Or he may have been abused in the past coming into your relationship. It could be a lot of he could be divorced and he's carrying some of that baggage into your relationship.

SPEAKER_02 31:24

Or he saw his parents fight all the time and carrying those those anxieties about I don't want to have a relationship like my parents and so what is your advice for I mean, I I guess this could also be the the wife that has this.

SPEAKER_01 31:41

It doesn't necessarily mean only him. It could be you that has trauma. It could be you that has the abuse from your past or the divorce or whatever it may be, and it's it's constantly questioning it's a it's a question that comes up all the time in the relationship.

SPEAKER_02 32:01

I think when a person has trauma, and it can be like we said from many sources, you you should acquaint yourself with what that might be, what that's like, and and give that person as much grace as you can. I think this is their they're uh considering what they've been through. Uh they are doing the best they can. It doesn't mean you don't have any boundaries. You don't want someone beating you or just yelling at you and stuff like that. You can have boundaries, but the the bank account thing doesn't automatically have to be a giant withdrawal if you if you understand that this person is going through trauma. They may have been in a car accident and they've got some some flashbacks and post-traumatic stress, they may be more irritable uh because of that. And so not expecting them to be like they were pre-trauma is is something that you can do as a mature person and just under because um they kind of can't help that it happened. And if they're trying to deal with things in a a mature, normal way, but they they slip because of this trauma, you can give them grace for it. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:16

And what about though, if the wife is going through it and or the the the female is and she wants that grace from her husband?

SPEAKER_02 33:24

I think it's um something that you can't, it's a gift. You can't demand it or expect it. Yeah. If she wants it, that's normal. But there may be limits to how much somebody can help you if you uh got post-traumatic stress. They may want to, but they may be unable to to the degree that you need it. Taking responsibility on your own to um to go through that with them and not expect them to do something they may have no idea how. Dealing with post-traumatic stress, a lot of people go to therapists for that instead of the spouse.

SPEAKER_01 34:03

Well, if it if it has to do with uh like a divorce or some sort of abuse from your past or some sort of toxic past that you might have, I think that's where you really have to work on yourself. And if it's your husband, he needs to work on that. And it's not your job to fix that. I think that you are making deposits when you accept this about someone and recognize that it's their personal growth, their journey. And it because I think what I hear the most is like, okay, well, he has this past, and therefore I feel that it's my job to fix it. And I think that is where you're withdrawing in your trust bank account because you don't trust that he can handle it, that he will work on it. And maybe he isn't. I think that's what we hear the most. It's like, well, he's not, he's not fixing things, he's not taking care of himself, he's not um growing from this, and it's my job, or therefore I need to check up on him, or I need to do these things for his own good. And that's where we hope that you recognize that you're making withdrawals, not deposits, when you're doing that.

SPEAKER_02 35:19

Yes, because not too many men want to marry a mother. And uh to to to this is that anything that falls for his own good is very mothering. And some there's a few men that like a little bit of it, not too many. If you are with somebody who's gone through post-traumatic stress, or just say they lost a job and they're in some kind of a stressful situation, looking at them and trying to imagine what they might be going through is a maturity thing that can really cause you to not make these with unnecessary withdrawals.

SPEAKER_01 35:53

And if it's you, the women that are listening, if it's you that are going through this and you're bringing your past trauma to the relationship, it goes the same thing for you. You need to recognize that this is your job to fix, this is your job to heal. And looking to him is not the answer. And having him be the solution, hey, I need you to do this for me so I can heal. I need you to be a part of me being happy. Of course, our partners are part of our happiness, but they're not responsible for your happiness.

SPEAKER_02 36:29

They can't. Yeah. They may try to the best of their might. And and we don't want to, those of us who are going through it, don't want to be a part of him taking withdrawal out of his part of the bank account towards us because we're right.

SPEAKER_01 36:45

We expect more than he can do. Right. You have to take responsibility for the things that are more trauma. And if if there is something that he can do to help, great, but don't expect him to fulfill that kind of part of you that's broken. You need to repair that part that's broken.

SPEAKER_02 37:05

Well, when you look at um relationships and trust like a bank account, you can think of ways that you can deposit into it. Once you think of it that way, you can think I'd like to make some deposits in it.

SPEAKER_01 37:16

Exactly. And not expecting him to make all the deposits. I think that happens a lot, is that ladies will be broken in some kind of way, whether it be depression or anxiety or something's happened to them that doesn't necessarily relate or directly kind of affect him. It's kind of your thing, but you're expecting him to make all these deposits, but you need to make some of those deposits. That's right. Exactly. Okay. We've got two more. The next one is finances. I know this one is a big cause of divorce, huge cause of people breaking up. Finances, misspending money, hiding money, uh, being just not good with money in general.

SPEAKER_02 38:02

And keep in mind, uh, one of women's primary needs is security. And part of that is financial. So that's it's kind of a it's kind of a hot point for most women. They need, they want and long to feel financially secure, but this world, this life, is not absolute, the we always have that at all times. Even even the the richest people in the world can lose it all under certain circumstances. Nothing is guaranteed. So we have to learn to live with, most of us are not billionaires, so we have to live with a certain potential of sometime in the future feeling some financial insecurity just with the way the world is. And then you add into that sometimes people are not good with money, they've made unfortunate choices in investments, which is something that is their intent is good, but it's it's led to an unfortunate outcome. Or um or they just like I know people who whose husband just is impulsive buyers and they'll buy something, a$1,500 item and not tell their wife when they clearly can't afford it.

SPEAKER_01 39:18

I think this goes back to what we were talking about in the very beginning about that value you're placing on it. And some people, the value that you're placing on finances is so much more important to others. I I listened to this little clip the other day of Kim Kardashian talking about one of the reasons why she divorced her last husband, Kanye West. And she said one of the things he did was she'd come home and her car would be gone. And he'd say, Oh, I gave it away to somebody. It was a Ferrari, I think. Oh my gosh. And I remember thinking, I would be really devastated if some, you know, if my husband gave away my car. But she actually, you could tell because she's such a a wealthy person, it really wasn't the breaking point for her, but it was a it was a big depot, a big withdrawal. Because of the lack of trust, not because of the money. It wasn't the money. And this is what I mean when I say we have to place value on these specific uh withdrawals. How much was that for her? How much would it be for me? I know how much it would be for me, but how much would it be for you? Well, it it's okay.

SPEAKER_02 40:31

When it under that scenario, if he gives her car away, he is has no respect for her, her feelings, her thoughts. And there's the boundary, is obviously a huge boundary jump. There's lack of honesty, it bleeds it bleeds into so many other things. That's why it is potentially a huge withdrawal.

SPEAKER_01 40:53

Right. And you may not put be putting enough uh value on things like that, betrayals like that. I know women that I've talked to that are kind of the opposite in that way, and they say, Oh, you know, he he went gambling uh several nights last week and now we don't have enough to pay our mortgage. And they kind of like, well, that's terrible. Like for me, that would be a huge withdrawal, close to bankruptcy, because I would feel like you said, I need to feel secure. I need to feel that our bills are paid. That would be really difficult for me, whereas some women don't put enough value on it. And that's then all of a sudden one day they find that their bank account is completely bankrupt and they're not sure how it happened.

SPEAKER_02 41:35

And there's some people that are perpetually uh spending money, they're bankrupt no matter how much they is put in the bank, they're perpetually bankrupt and they just are so bad as money, and that can undermine a relationship. And sometimes it's the women who do it.

SPEAKER_01 41:53

Yes, yeah. Sometimes it's women and men that do this, but I think the solution here is about being aware of it and placing the right value on things that are important. If you are allowing your husband or if you the man is allowing his wife to make all these withdrawals, literally, like this one's about finances. So this one is literal withdrawals as well as trust withdrawals. And you're not really recognizing how important and damaging that is, and you're not placing the right amount of value on it, you're damaging your relationship so much, and you may not even realize it. You may not realize how you're angry with him. I talk to women sometimes that are like, oh, I'm so angry with him, I'm so upset with him, I hate him. Um, and I don't know why. Well, that this is one of those things. Is well, did did you did you have a huge trust violation? What happened? What did you do about it? Did you guys repair it? And you'll be surprised how many women are like, I don't, I didn't realize that.

SPEAKER_02 42:54

Sometimes uh marriages, the bank account is bankrupt because the husband just is not ambitious and never and never really makes enough so that bills are paid. And that isn't just one thing, it's it's it's an attitude over time, right? He just he just doesn't care enough to put literal deposits in in the literal bank. And so that can undermine a marriage over time. That can be emotional withdrawals where she just never feels like we're never gonna have enough to to clothe our children and have a decent place to live. It'd be different if he was really trying hard and going through a hard time, but if he just is um doesn't really care.

SPEAKER_01 43:41

Right. Well, when I first got married, my husband was more of the spender, and I've always been very frugal and very careful with money. And over time, I've had to be very careful with him. And he's really good at it now. But I had to be in those first few years, I was the responsible. One, I had to be careful about making withdrawals, like not with literal withdrawals, but making trust withdrawals because I had I had this feeling in the pit of my stomach. Is he going to spend a lot of money? I would worry. Is he going to spend a lot of money? And am I going to be left holding the bag? And it was incredibly difficult for me to just trust him. And but I did. And I think that's where we're saying make deposits because that's making a deposit, giving him that chance. Now, have there been times where he's messed up a little? Yeah. But again, you have to place value on those mistakes. How big was this mistake in comparison to all the years that it's been great? And that's where you said earlier, you give grace. And this can be really challenging with money because we really need this, especially women. We really need that feeling of security. Not feeling wealthy per se, but feeling secure that things will be taken care of, the bills will be paid. And like you said, sometimes it's us as women that are in that role. And I think you just have to kind of reverse the advice in that sense.

SPEAKER_02 45:07

Well, it's like if if the feeling, and I know a lot of us have been there, that if say that our heating went out and we couldn't afford to fix it, we'd be we'd be in trouble. That that there's a security, if anything breaks, you can fix it rather than if anything breaks, if our if our roof leaks, we're toast. Right. I mentioned roofs because they're very expensive, probably the most expensive thing on a house to fix on most houses. And if our if a roof leaks, it's a huge problem. So and and that doesn't mean we the husband, we have to have a huge it bankrupts the relationship because he may be doing the best he can. I only bring it out to to bring out how finances are so important to women's feeling of security.

SPEAKER_01 45:57

Right. I think you have to also recognize this this this is where understanding men kind of chimes in a little bit. Recognize when he's being careless and when he's taking risks. Because if he's taking a risk and he's very thoughtful and he's the this goes to the intent part, if is his intent to try something new and he's put a lot of thought into it, but you're jumping to, I don't trust you. You've had so many problems in the past. Remember, that could be a big withdrawal. And maybe he isn't trustworthy, and you guys, you need to talk it through. But I think just recognizing that you might be withdrawing here and not trusting him, and it's gonna hurt him because he's just trying to do something with finances that's new that he, you know, he's just trying to take a risk, which causes him to withdraw emotionally from you on his side. Exactly. And and and recognizing that too.

SPEAKER_02 46:57

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 46:58

Uh, a lot of this is just gonna boil down to communication when it comes to the finances too. Because if you're not having these these talks with him and these straightforward, again, not hinting with what you need and what you feel, and saying, hey, you know, this scares me. Um, how do you think we should solve these problems? Hey, our finances are not great. What do you think we should do versus I don't trust you, so I'm just gonna jump in and take over?

SPEAKER_02 47:28

Yeah, that'll damage it more. I mean, then you got double whammy. It both sides of the bank account are getting withdrawals.

SPEAKER_01 47:34

So yeah, and then you start to get into masculine pride, which is a whole other topic. But so it's moving on. Moving on. Okay, the last one is the most important as far as um damage and it's infidelity.

SPEAKER_02 47:49

Yes, and infidelity can be um pornography, it can be emo some women report emotional affairs, and it can be anything in between the uh physical affair and prostitutes and all that stuff. It includes all of it. Some women don't think pornography is infidelity, but it absolutely is.

SPEAKER_01 48:10

It depends again, you place the value. You alone place the value on these problems. And but with infidelity, I think this is the only one I think of our whole list that more often than not completely bankrupts your trust account.

SPEAKER_02 48:24

You're zero. Some women are different, uh, but I would say the majority, it's really hard to come back from that.

SPEAKER_01 48:33

So, what is your advice? Because I think we've already gone through obviously, this is a bankrupt situation, and we all know that infidelity is really severe. What is your advice for the women out there that are going through this and they want to begin these steps of repair in the trust bank account?

SPEAKER_02 48:50

Well, you you can you can't repair it without him. I mean, if uh okay, the thing, the only thing that has ever bankrupted a relationship for me with somebody is if the person who has hurt me has no interest in repair. And there's no way, there's no way I can do it because you can't do it by yourself. And it uh infidelity ultimately bottom line whether you what let's let's assuming that he wants to continue in the relationship, whether you do it or not is up to you. I knew I knew one woman whose husband cheated on her and she forgave, she tried forgiving him and just moving on. After a few months, she realized she just couldn't do it. Yeah, she could not do it. Some women can and some women cannot, and she had to end it because she realized she would never trust him.

SPEAKER_01 49:39

Well, and you have to ask yourself, why do I want to work on this? What what's am I can I do this?

SPEAKER_03 49:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:47

And you have to be honest with yourself. In it there's no amount of deposits that you could have made in the however long you've been together that can fix this. Maybe it can't. Maybe it can't. It's only you.

SPEAKER_02 50:00

Depends on the woman. Depends on the woman. Only your and and if he if it's a multiple-time offense, I mean pornography can destroy marriages. Um emotional affairs can destroy marriages. Um there's but you know, and and repeat offenders, uh, it usually does destroy them. Exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:27

But but as far as, okay, so let's say you said you need to both be invested. What if the way you are invested in repairing the trust is not the same level that he is, and you're both making, I guess, deposits, but yours are way larger than his.

SPEAKER_02 50:48

You know, how how aware is the woman? She emotionally, I think we're all we all kind of know what we can handle and what we can't. And we may really want something and and really want it. And so we stay longer than we might have if we didn't really want it. And and for some, uh the the husband is really sorrowful. And sometimes the woman realizes she had a part to play in it, kind of like pushing him away for or sometimes a long period of time.

SPEAKER_01 51:24

And he just she became emotionally unavailable, or she became not that it not that it justifies what he's doing, it's a part of it.

SPEAKER_02 51:34

It has to be considered. It has to be considered. And again, for depending on the woman, infidelity, I would say with a majority of women, bankrupts the relationship. Well, whether you start building it back up again or not is up to the couple and and the various circumstances. Is he does he feel bad? Was he caught?

SPEAKER_01 51:55

And so he says he feels bad versus he he comes to you and and it just I think too, like what are his deposits looking like? You know, he's not making any. That's a problem. He's not trying, but you have to look for them too, and you have to accept that his deposits may not look the same as yours, they may not be in a form of words, they may be in a form of action. And if you're ignoring the action because you demand a lot more words, that's gonna take a lot longer to repair. Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 52:33

Yeah, let's say that he he he betrayed his um relationship and he had an affair and he feels so bad. Let's say he really wants to repair it. So he's willing, say it's somebody at work, he's willing to get a different job and even move to a different town as part of his actions for repair. That's pretty that's pretty big. That that commitment is pretty big, versus, oh, I prom I'm just not gonna I'm just not gonna do it again. But then it's gonna be harder to build trust back. And to that's a bit that's a rather big, in my opinion, deposit is if he's willing to do something that's very difficult for him in order to repair.

SPEAKER_01 53:17

Well, and think about that deposit that you're making, which is really hard to do by allowing him to show you these things. So maybe it's not the move and it's not quite as grand of a gesture as that, but let's say it's um just spending more time with you. And maybe the time that you're with him, you're thinking to yourself, I can't believe he he can just move on. I'm so upset. But he's spending time with you. So can you let go of that need to kind of like, let's talk things through and let's, you know, tell me exactly why you did what you did, and going over that time and time again, but really saying, well, you know what, we're spending more time together. That's a deposit. And I'm making up a deposit by not demanding all this repair talk over. Because I think that's what a lot of ladies do, is they tend to demand these con these long, you know what I mean? Like these long conversations about the affair or these long explanations, which to a degree we need, but it can get to a point where it's always talking, and there's not a lot of value put on the action that he's doing.

SPEAKER_02 54:34

Yeah, yeah, that's true. They're all deposits. And and again, uh it depends on the couple. Yeah. There's no there's no one rule book that you can follow, and it'll it will be for every situation.

SPEAKER_01 54:50

Well, and we know lots of couples that have gotten through infidelity and a mainly in part to fascinating womanhood and studying the principles and realizing, okay, if I do this, he will respond in this way, and and it and it ends up working. But there are also tons of times where it just doesn't, because she just can't do it, or he just can't do it, and and it just doesn't work. So this is this is something that you're either willing to put in this tremendous amount of work, or it's not worth it to you.

SPEAKER_02 55:25

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 55:25

So we in our last video about trust, we had someone ask this question and we wanted to take this opportunity to answer it. It says, What if we violated trust from his past mistakes and he puts up a wall and pulls away from me? How can I get him back when he was the one who messed up?

SPEAKER_02 55:46

Well, we know from Fascinating Womanhood walls he has to take down. And if he has a wall, it could be that he's uh defensive. If he if it's his past mistakes and he's defensive, uh it could be I mean that we know so little. It's just a very basic question. It could be that she's uh accusatory. And when when you accuse somebody, whether it's a man or a woman, you tend to be defensive instead of being approached a different way. But if he's got a wall up, your approach isn't optimal.

SPEAKER_01 56:25

Well, it's like what you and Dad always say. I've heard you say this so many times. When a guy has a wall up, uh you kind of have to trust that he has it up for a reason. And he kind of is like a bear in a cave that needs to be in there. And you do have you kind of have to, there's a level of like letting him be in there that has to just you can't pull him out. You can't. Yeah, it's it's that's the the hardest part. And that is a deposit, by the way. If you let him stay in there, put that wall up, and accept that he has to have that time, you're actually making a big deposit because you're showing him that you trust him and that you understand him and that you know that he needs to be in there.

SPEAKER_02 57:05

And even if you don't trust him, you're willing to try and rebuild trust.

SPEAKER_01 57:12

But I will say if he puts that wall up and he's in his cave and then he violates that trust again. Yeah, that's where I think you ladies out there, you really need to place a a hefty value on that. And and this is where boundaries come in. I think a lot of ladies struggle with the boundaries part of this, but you have to put up those boundaries when he is a repeated withdrawer. He's just withdrawing all the time. Like you can't just let him get away with that. You have to put up those boundaries.

SPEAKER_02 57:44

You you have to. And uh so one thing some women misunderstand about fasting woman, we're so about understanding men and tolerance and patience. There are boundaries, and we're not we're meant not meant to be doormats. So there's a point where you just say, no, that's too much for me. I I can't do that.

SPEAKER_01 58:04

Okay, well, I'm sure we could talk about this for all day long and for hours and hours. Yeah. We've gotten most of what we wanted to share today. We would love to hear from our audience if you have anything that you'd like to ask us. I know this is a very important topic. If you have any questions, we'd love to get some fan mail from you. Let us know if you're interested in Dixie's classes that she has available for rent online, as well as her books. We have personal coaches that you can connect with. Anything that you need for support, we have it on fascinatingwomanhood.com. Be sure to visit our website. See you next time. And we'll see you next time. Bye.