The Communication Habits of Feminine Women

Good conversation is more than just being “good at talking.” In this episode, we talk about how graceful women communicate, including how to start conversations naturally, avoid uncomfortable topics, exit difficult conversations politely, and practice better social etiquette in everyday life.

This is episode 4 in our Ladylike Behavior Series - we hope you enjoy the series!

www.fascinatingwomanhood.com 

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Hello everyone and welcome to the official Fascinating Womanhood podcast where we explore timeless principles for developing true femininity, inspiring authentic masculinity, and building strong, loving, and lasting relationships. I'm Cherry Lynn and I'm here with my mom, Dixie and Alyn Forsythe. Together we'll dive into the heart of what makes relationships thrive, offering practical wisdom and heartfelt conversations to help you live a more fulfilled and fascinating life.

SPEAKER_04 0:31

Today we are talking about the social habits of elegant women. Now, this is part of our ladylike behavior series, and we also like to call it conversation skill.

SPEAKER_00 0:43

Yes. This is a subject that a lot of us either need to learn more about or brush up on because you converse with people regularly.

SPEAKER_04 0:54

Yes. We're going to talk about how to start a conversation, how to navigate a conversation, and some of the things that happen in conversations that can be challenging, whether it be what did we call it when we were talking about it the other day? People with a smart mouth that you might be talking to.

SPEAKER_00 1:11

Yeah, snark. People, probably even a majority of people use sarcasm. And and sarcasm, I suppose, has its place in some situations, but uh it's not really, unless it's kind of dry humor that everybody gets, it's not really uh ladylike. It's not our goal or ideal or anything like that.

SPEAKER_04 1:37

Yeah. So whether you're talking to someone kind of difficult like what you just described, we're gonna go through that today. We have a lot that we're gonna cover. We have five main points that we're gonna cover about interacting with others socially, primarily talking about conversation skills within that, because I think when you get into social skills, it could be such kind of a beast of a topic.

SPEAKER_00 2:01

Oh, yeah, there's so many aspects to social skills, including table manners.

SPEAKER_04 2:06

Yeah, we're trying to keep this more, we're trying to keep this more about conversation skills and things to say. And I think we do want to focus a little bit on the challenging part. We did a YouTube video about this years ago, and we really didn't get into that. And I wish that we had. So I'm really glad we're taking this opportunity to cover this again on our podcast because we can really cover a lot of the things that I think the majority of us struggle with, including both of us. So we're just gonna get into it. So the first one has to do with making people feel seen. Elegant women make people feel seen. What does this mean?

SPEAKER_00 2:45

Well, this is something that we all have different skill sets. And the way I like to describe it is like, say, if you are the kind of person, and I know people who are really good working a room, quote unquote. Like if you have a party, now if you're a guest at a party, you don't have that obligation, but if you are the hostess of a party, you have an obligation to make sure everybody feels, you know, kind of uh noticed, needs met, like do you need a refresher on your drink or just hello, things like that. You work the room is what's called. Now, some of us, like me, I can't, I'm not very good at at large groups. I'm better at maybe no more than eight people. There's kind of an unwritten number that you feel like you can manage as far as making sure everyone feels noticed, that you're interested in them, that you listen to what they say, that you have a conversation with them, at least so that they feel seen and heard at your at your party or your gathering.

SPEAKER_04 3:46

Yeah. Have you ever been to a party where the host barely has even spoken to you? I know I have.

SPEAKER_00 3:51

Yes. I remember once. Now, this isn't this was a hospital party we went to because Bob gets invited these Christmas ones. And I remember this one, I just thought I didn't know anyone but Bob there. And he was kind of working on the room, and he didn't even notice that we had to come in separate cars because he had to come from the hospital. I just walked out and went home and nobody noticed for a while. And that's the kind of thing you don't want to be at a party where have a guest at your party where if they leave, you won't even notice. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 4:21

Slip out, you know. Well, and this can be challenging for those of us who are a little bit more introverted, a little bit more shy, but I think you absolutely can work on this. And I think sometimes it may be about starting really small and and having a small group.

SPEAKER_00 4:36

Like if you're married, have one other couple, start with that. That's pretty easy. And then if you know, as you get better at it, more comfortable with it, have a few more. But you can accept the fact that you may not be a 25 or 30 person hostess and be able to handle that. Wherever possible, stick to the the size that you can handle and feel like you can do it well.

SPEAKER_04 5:00

But now, have you ever been to on the kind of flip side of that, to uh uh an event or some sort of gathering or party where you had the host or hostess notice you, but you didn't feel it was very genuine. Felt like it was almost like a checklist and you got checked off the list.

unknown 5:18

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:19

Yeah, I have, and they never they never stick around more than a minute and then they're gone, and that's that's all you get.

SPEAKER_04 5:25

Yeah, I think if you're if you're really striving for this ladylike behavior topic, you want to genuinely greet your guests, talk to people, and maybe you're not the hostess, maybe you're just meeting people somewhere, but I think it still applies. You want to try to have that genuine hello, and I care about you, and remembering their names, which moves on to the next point.

SPEAKER_00 5:47

A lot of us have trouble remembering people's names. It's partly because when you first meet somebody, you may have a little bit of nervousness just in meeting them. And so that contributes to you not remembering their name.

SPEAKER_04 6:00

Yeah, you definitely want to remember people's names. Have you ever had that happen to you where you just you meet with someone constantly or you see them several times and you just know they don't know your name? And that's fine. I mean, I guess it's hard for some of us, but it just feels so wonderful on the flip side of that when someone does remember your name and how to pronounce it. I know that's one for me personally. If someone can say my name the right way and I don't have to correct them, that makes me feel really special.

SPEAKER_00 6:30

Well, there's the other situation where have you ever met someone at a party or just in a store and they say your name and they remember you, and you think, Who is that? Yeah, you can't remember and then you say I haven't seen you for so long, and you you look so good. And I think, who is that? Who is that? They look vaguely familiar. And because they've remembered your name, you don't want to say, I don't remember your name. Right.

SPEAKER_04 6:52

Well, I mean, I think I would rather someone say, I'm sorry, I don't remember your name, than kind of tiptoe around it. Like that's just me personally. I'd rather them just say it. I would say we'll remember your name.

SPEAKER_00 7:03

I would say, I'm I'm can you repeat your first name? That implies you remember their last name, even if you don't.

SPEAKER_04 7:10

Now, what are some of your tips for remembering names for those of us that struggle?

SPEAKER_00 7:14

Okay, this is what's really helped me is when you meet somebody, try to get in the habit of when this is Mary, you say hello, Mary, you repeat back their name. Yeah, that's why saying their name helps you to remember. And and it people also like hearing their name said, they like it, or if you want click now, did you say your name was so-and-so? And then um, the other thing that really helps is when you're conversing with them, if you deliberately every few sentences deliberately include their name, like, yeah, Mary, I was just thinking about this. So when you the more you say their name, you don't have to get really obvious or annoying, but you can work it into the conversation, you will remember their name. That's one way, another way that you can do it, in addition, not just either or is try to associate uh their name with something that you know you can remember. Like, like if say her name is Mary, you can say to yourself, she reminds me of my Aunt Mary on my father's side. And that will actually, you don't ever say that to anyone, you just you but you can remember it. And if it's kind of goofy, you can even remember it better. Like, say a guy's name is Larry, you can see uh Larry the lumberjack in your mind, and it because it's kind of quirky and weird, you remember it better, but you don't say it.

SPEAKER_04 8:39

Yeah, you definitely don't want to say it because I've had people say that to me about my name out loud. Like they'll say this happens to me all the time. I'll meet someone, I say hi, I'm cherry, and they'll say Sherry.

SPEAKER_00 8:52

Oh, I know.

SPEAKER_04 8:53

I'm sorry, correct them, which is fine, and I correct them. No, it's cherry. Um, with like the fruit. I always because you taught me to say that when I was little, like the fruit, yeah, and they'll be like, Oh, cherry pie, cherry pie, and I'll I'll be kind of it just makes me feel kind of awkward.

SPEAKER_00 9:08

Yeah, and on uh for me, I get the um I wish I was in the land of cotton thing. I used to be people would start singing it to me the Dixie Dixieland song, yeah. They would sing it. And I I never even lived in the South, so you get that. Don't yeah, don't tell people your little your little method for remembering.

SPEAKER_04 9:29

Yes, but but remembering names is just part, just one part of making people feel seen. And if you struggle with it, it's okay. I think a lot of people struggle with remembering names, but if you can work on this, I think the tips are really easy to practice. Then we also want to talk about open-ended questions, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:48

Not questions like how much money do you make? Well, technically that is open-ended. Well, seriously, I have been I have been asked that a lot of times. Really? Yeah, I've never been asked that. Yeah, it's not, it's not okay. But I mean, neither of my kids. Oh, another thing, another thing people sometimes ask that don't have the most etiquette is how many books have you sold? Oh, really? Yeah, I I've gotten that. Interesting. Yeah, it's uh it's a little bit like because then what you do is you you open up, are they gonna think it was a lot or are they gonna think it isn't very much?

SPEAKER_04 10:28

Are you talking about friends or acquaintances? Acquaintances, acquaintances, not family or friends, like people that you know, okay. That is acquaintances, people I people that know me but don't know me well. Okay, oh that's so weird. Maybe they think it's gonna s make you sound wonderful because you're gonna say this big number and then you'll be proud of yourself or something.

SPEAKER_00 10:46

But I don't know whether the number to them will be a lot or not very much, right? You know, it's it's just not appropriate, anyway.

SPEAKER_04 10:53

So, what are we talking about with good open-ended questions?

SPEAKER_00 10:56

Yeah, yeah, not those guys, those are bad. Okay, like some if if you someone tells you say what they do for a living, you say what got you into that. That's saying I'm interested in you, I'm interested in that journey.

SPEAKER_04 11:09

Yeah, elegant women ask questions that open people up. And I you know this when you're around someone like that and you can feel it, and it it's really a great way to get to know someone genuinely open into questions.

SPEAKER_00 11:25

Yes, and the very beginning of it, as we as you already mentioned, is we can't say it enough, is be sincere. Yeah, no, no, you're not performing, you actually caring about people, and the more you care about people, and not nosy. I mean, there is there's a difference. Like I said, how how many books have you sold? But if you the more you actually really care about people, you'll naturally ask questions like like, what was your favorite part? What's the favorite your favorite part of what you do? That's a question they probably don't get asked all the time, but it invites them to let you know them a little bit better.

SPEAKER_04 12:00

Yeah, I think you got to really listen. I agree. That's a good point. You really got to listen because otherwise the conversation's gonna fall flat, and then you won't have very much interaction. You won't have a variety within your conversation because it just falls flat and you weren't listening.

SPEAKER_00 12:15

Oh, I know, I know. That's happened to me. There's all kinds of questions you can ask people. Some of the questions like what was your favorite part? They may never be, they never may never get that question from people. No one may ever care what is their favorite part of what they do.

SPEAKER_04 12:30

Yeah, that's actually really good. I mean, I've done I don't think I've ever been asked that in my life. And but it would be a great opportunity to to talk to somebody about it if they asked. Yeah. And I think this is good for dating too. Um ask men this. I think we get a lot of questions from women that say, you know, how do I start a conversation with a man? Or when I'm talking to a man, you know, what kind of things should I say? And I think this is a really good one for dating. You want to ask him open-ended questions, but not the uncomfortable ones. Try to ask the ones that really, really matter to you.

SPEAKER_00 13:00

And if you and if it's sincere, you can another start out something like with a compliment, like that tie really works on you. Yeah, exactly. You look great in that color, but it's got to be specific, otherwise, it's just a big flirt. And it, you know.

SPEAKER_04 13:15

Yeah. The next one under making people feel seen is really pretty more obvious, but we have to include it, which is smiling and eye contact. And I personally really rely on this one a lot as someone that's a little bit more shy and reserved. I I really rely on body language, I guess you could say, which is part of smiling and eye contact, to kind of speak for me. And I think this is so obvious, but a lot of us forget to smile, especially if we're nervous.

SPEAKER_00 13:45

Yeah. Yeah. Nervousness makes you uh sometimes your eyes dart around. And and you you may tremble a little bit, but if you you can decide beforehand that you're gonna smile.

SPEAKER_04 13:58

Well, and some of us have natural opposite opposition to a smile, and we don't know it. Like some of us look kind of sad or serious on the outside, and it's not really things that we can necessarily control about our facial expressions. And reminding yourself to have a small smile, even if it's just a little one, can really help others to be drawn to you and to want to meet you and get to know you. It's an it's a nonverbal thing you can do that's warm. Exactly. And then we have manners, which is also very, very obvious. But I think I I do have to say in our current society, it is dying.

SPEAKER_00 14:40

Oh my gosh. Yeah, there's you're my youngest child, so I can say one of my my kids. Uh they you guys used to complain all the time that so many people had bad phone manners, and they do. And but that isn't the only thing. People don't say please, they don't say thank you. Even for small things, and it's it's that those little respect um things that you do and say.

SPEAKER_04 15:07

Yeah, I think you know, uh, this is really, really obvious, but I think there's this cool kind of thing going on in our society that that's too formal, and you should just be yourself and you don't need to be like saying please and thank you, and you're welcome, and all of those things is formal.

SPEAKER_00 15:26

It isn't actually, it should be uh perfunctory every day. You know, if someone lets you go in front of them in a line, you say, Thank you. That's really nice of you, or there's non-verbal stuff like when you're trying to find a parking place. Have you ever seen someone just rush in and just zoom into the one you're about to go into? Especially at Costco, yeah. Oh, especially at Costco, it's the Costco mentality. I've adopted the idea that if they want it that bad, they can have it. We go to we go to gyms, we have gym memberships and work out, but then we drive around around to get a closer parking place because we don't want to have to walk.

SPEAKER_04 16:03

I'll tell you what, I do not do that, but I see people doing that, and it's very confusing to me. Um, but yeah, I think that part of having good manners and making people feel seen is simply that is that you are noticing them. Have you ever had somebody not hold a door for you? Yes, you were right behind them, maybe with your arms full. That happens to me all the time.

SPEAKER_00 16:25

And it's slams shut, right? Right.

SPEAKER_04 16:27

Yeah, or or not saying thank you for something, and you kind of feel like, oh, you know, maybe they didn't notice that I did that for them. You just want people to feel seen, and part of that is is your manners.

SPEAKER_00 16:38

You know what Bob does, I've noticed I should do it more is when we're in a checkout uh place at a if somebody is helping us, they always wear name tags. He always says their names, thank you, Jesse.

SPEAKER_04 16:51

My husband does that too. He does that. I think I like he'll if if a server will come to our table and say, Hi, I'm Gita, he'll be like, Gita? Did you say Gita? Okay, thanks, Gita. And I I'm like, Oh, that's that's really and that's also part of the name thing, too. That's also the tip about names.

SPEAKER_00 17:08

Yeah, I think that's uh uh really nice when I hear Bob do it, or you hear uh your husband do it. It's it's a very nice thing. I haven't done it as much, but I think I'd like to do it because if it was me on the other end, I would like it if someone called me by my name.

SPEAKER_04 17:25

Well, and if you're a little bit shy and you don't want to do that, it it's the tip about smiling in eye contact. And you have a person say, like you said at the grocery store, you're just smiling at them instead of ignoring them and being on your phone, which I think is a little bit rude, depending on what's actually it it is this isn't good manners to be on your phone when you're in a checkout.

SPEAKER_00 17:46

Someone's checking you out.

SPEAKER_04 17:47

I'm guilty of it. I've done it many times, but when you think about it, it is kind of rude, especially if they are you know trying to engage with you a little bit, which often they are.

SPEAKER_00 17:58

I guess it depends on where you live, but you can easily say, look, I'm in a checkout, I'm in the checkout line. Can I call you back in about one minute?

SPEAKER_04 18:06

Well, I'm never on the phone phone, I'm like texting or something. Like someone will text me, and I I think being on the phone is absolutely rude uh with a checkout person, unless you're just you know emergency or something, emergency, but like yeah, I think I see a lot of people fumbling through their phones during the checkout, and I think it is it is slightly rude. Now, today there's a lot of self-checkouts, and same thing goes for those people that greet you. If they greet you, saying something back is just good man.

SPEAKER_00 18:36

Yeah, yeah. You know, I I I think it should be said that I think a lot of service-oriented people get a lot of really grouchy people that come through. They get they get people that are very unpleasant, and so the more you can do this, the more you kind of lift their day. Because you we don't have any idea how many times people have been rude to them.

SPEAKER_04 19:00

Oh, let me tell you what. I worked in food service, I've been a server, I've been a hostess, I've done retail, I've done office work, all the places that I've worked, I'm telling you, like dealing with grumpy, rude people is a majority of your day. And wow, you it's a big part of your day. Um, maybe not every single day. You might have a good day here and there, and it's not every single hour, but it's a big chunk of your day. And so you're absolutely right. Lifting their day is is wonderful if you can't. There's very few people that will do that.

SPEAKER_00 19:37

Okay, so we should have included that more at the top of the list on manners, is when you're with people and you're say in a bad mood or you've had something unpleasant, don't let that rub off on other people.

SPEAKER_04 19:53

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 19:54

Don't don't use them as a scapegoat. And just because you don't, you're not going to see them all the time, uh, you can be kind everywhere you go. You can you can make, like we always say, make um people feel better for you having been there, just a tiny bit, even if you just smiled at them.

SPEAKER_04 20:13

Okay, then we move into compliments, which is pretty straightforward, I guess, but I think the only point we wanted to make about compliments is giving them and receiving them gracefully and being sincere. And I think we've talked about this on so many of our other podcasts. We've talked about this in our YouTube videos, you talk about this in your book, that we don't give compliments enough. We notice it, but we don't give it.

SPEAKER_00 20:40

Yeah, we don't say it. Yeah. One of the points that is on here is we is gets overlooked a lot, which is being good at receiving compliments. Because some people, like you'll say, you really look good in that that outfit. That color's really good for you. And they say something that diminishes it back, like like, well, everyone always tells me I look terrible in this, and you somehow diminish what they say instead of, well, it makes me look old or fat or whatever it is. And and so you diminish what they say, sort of like you don't really believe them, but in reality, it's you're maybe you're you just don't know what to say. And so you say something that kind of depreciates yourself rather than you you think so well. Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 21:26

Now, what about people who are monopolizing, people that are seeking validation? What about those? What about that situation?

SPEAKER_00 21:35

Monopolize the conversation. Yeah, people do that. Sometimes people are nervous and they go in a long monologue about something. And you've you've ever been in a situation like that.

SPEAKER_04 21:47

Oh, yeah. I've been in I've been at parties where people will do that. I've been on dates where men will do that.

SPEAKER_00 21:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:53

I think you just have to like this is just my two cents is that you have to remind yourself that people that are doing that are. 1,000% seeking validation. Yeah. And so give it to them. It's free. Give it to them. It is free. And if you have to excuse yourself, that's fine. You don't, you're not obligated to stay for the whole monologue. But I think just being kind to those people, this whole point that this whole thing that we're talking about right now is making people feel seen. Well, the people that are desperate to be seen are probably going to be monopolizing the conversation.

SPEAKER_00 22:27

So just give it to it. Sometimes people who monopolize or go on monologues don't maybe feel like they don't have anyone else they can share their feelings with.

SPEAKER_04 22:37

Exactly. And and what while it might be might be slightly annoying to a lot of us, you have to remind yourself that this is something that they really, really need, obviously. So what can you do to give them that few minutes of friendship? It's a free gift. Okay. The second part of this that was the helping people feel seen. The second part is learning about what destroys conversations. And this can happen rather quietly. You'll be having a conversation with someone, and then all of a sudden it starts to go downhill.

SPEAKER_00 23:11

Yes. And it becomes it becomes a lecture. Now, sometimes it's because let's say that I find um say a skin cream that I think is really great. And I end up overselling it to somebody who isn't really that interested in it. You can learn to sent to tell fairly quickly whether they're not interested and just drop it.

SPEAKER_04 23:34

Right. Well, I this happened to me not that long ago. I'm sure you probably know who this person is. Someone was asking me for TV show recommendations. And um, you know, she had said, Oh, I'm looking for a new show for my husband and I to watch. And I named off a few shows that I loved, and quickly she started to lecture me on some of the recommendations that I was making and told me that she had already seen clips from one of those TV shows, and she thought it was terrible, and went on to tell me how terrible some of the values were within the actors and the storyline. So, like, what do you think about that? Where do you go from there?

SPEAKER_00 24:17

If they tell you that, just say, Yeah, because then you're dealing with you slightly have hurt feelings along along with it. But you just say, you know, I'm sure you're gonna be great at picking a show that's kind of your style. That's difficult when somebody's rude to you. Right. It's difficult because it could you could very easily get in a situation where you end up arguing, which is not what you want. And yeah, and yet they wanted your your opinion. But also, if if let's say somebody you're talking to somebody and you've learned something about something out there in society, some truth or something, and you tell them and they don't really want to hear it. Maybe they have a different point of view and you don't know it, you can learn to sense that I don't want to hear this and just change the subject.

SPEAKER_04 25:10

Don't force it. And I think that's the part of this part here that we're gonna move on to next is not always needing to be right. With the example of the girl that was asking me for TV show recommendations. I have to remind myself that she may not like my recommendations, and that's okay. And and it's and it's that's kind of part of both sides of it. We're obviously giving this advice of don't lecture people, but we're also giving the advice of if someone lectures you, you don't have to be right and you can let it go and you can drop it, which is yeah, really what I had to do.

SPEAKER_00 25:46

If the situation was reversed, like say you don't like sci-fi and they were recommending sci-fi shows, you could just say, Oh, that sounds interesting. Thanks for the recommendations, and just not do it. Right, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 25:59

Well, and there's unsolicited advice, which I think happens a lot.

SPEAKER_00 26:04

Probably the don't buy that brand of graham crackers, it's terrible, even though you didn't ask.

SPEAKER_04 26:09

Or there's the shaming with the unsolicited advice. Like, do you know how many chemicals are in that Windex that you're using? I actually know the let the brand of glass cleaner that I use. Someone told me that it had chemicals that cause cancer. And I it just because I know that they're I know it's coming from a place of positive, like they're just trying to help. But this is where it's like, okay, try not to be the person that's doing that because it's okay to kind of give your opinion, but it's a it's a fine line that you step into with lecturing and giving advice that nobody asked you for. Nobody wants to know. Yeah. Well, I mean, I want to know. I just maybe don't want to feel so judged because, like, for example, the example of the glass cleaner, I'm not really that's not my on the top of my list of concerns. I'd be more concerned to hear about maybe things I'm putting on my skin every day, or like that would be something I'd like to hear about. But my glass cleaner, like that I use on my car, like I don't know. I just that's not quite as important to me. And I think you are borderline kind of like sounding controlling when you tell people those things.

SPEAKER_00 27:22

Well, one time somebody opened my refrigerator and pulled out an item and said, Do you realize how many chemicals is in this thing that you're using? And I thought, Well, she was trying to warn me about something, but it was unsolicited. Well, I kind of think that that's the same person that was and this is this is somebody who is very is has a lot of nurturing qualities, but sometimes it bleeds over into unsolicited advice to an adult, which is not it becomes inappropriate, right?

SPEAKER_04 28:00

I just think I don't know what the audience that's listening to this struggles with, whether you're the person that this is happening to you or whether you do this often in your life and you're the one giving unsolicited advice. But I think at the end of the day, it's about being aware of it, and that's it.

SPEAKER_00 28:16

Just being aware of it. Yeah, well, okay, if the if somebody tells you, do you realize how many chemicals is in this, whatever? How do you respond to that? See, then there's the lady like, how do you respond to that? Okay, here's an example. And this is this is kind of extreme, but it was um Bob was telling me uh the other day about a patient he saw in the hospital. She's she's got a lot of issues. I don't know what's going on with her, but she told uh Bob that she somebody was stealing the hearing aids out of another patient's uh room. It was completely not true, but so she what Bob did is he didn't say no they're not. He just said, Oh, is that right? He says, When someone has those issues, you don't you don't get in an argument with you, just oh, is that right? And she said, You've got to tell the staff, they've got to prevent this. He says, Oh, I'll talk to them. I promise I will. So he said, I knew it was nonsense, but I didn't get into it with her because it doesn't go anywhere. It doesn't go anywhere. So he he did talk to one of the staffs, says, uh, so-and-so, Mrs. So-and-so says this, and they kind of, yeah, I know she does that all the time.

SPEAKER_04 29:23

Well, it sounds like you're dealing with someone with some.

SPEAKER_00 29:26

At this point I said it's it's extreme, but it's how it's how he did not let anything escalate.

SPEAKER_04 29:32

Right. Another part of this um this section that we're talking about destroying conversations is interrupting.

SPEAKER_00 29:40

Yeah, that's hard because, like we just talked about, some people um totally monologue and monopolize. You can't get a word in edgewise, it's it's difficult to know the line.

SPEAKER_04 29:51

Well, I think with interrupting, when someone is a constant interrupter, it really reminds me of my children and it's annoying. All children interrupt. It takes them a very, very long time to learn how to not do that. So please, as an adult, try not to do that because it it's annoying and it sends this kind of deeper message that they are being a little selfish and they're not listening to you.

SPEAKER_00 30:18

Yeah. Uh yeah, I know somebody who, you know, whenever she comes into a conversation and you're talking with somebody, she just interrupts, she just talks to one of the people and just like you weren't even there. And I think who does that? But it's it's rude. But so then then again, if you're on the other end, you're being interrupted. What do you do? You let them, you don't scold them. It doesn't work.

SPEAKER_04 30:43

You do, and there's only so much you can put up with. And if that's that's why it's called the conversation. This whole section is the conversation destroyer. If they're just doing it, they're they're uh constantly interrupting you. You can very politely excuse yourself from that. Yeah, you can, yeah, you can. Because that can just be really frustrating. Another one is gossip and insults. Oh boy, is this a problem with women. Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_00 31:07

Yes, and in defense of women, I say that because we verbally process, we are tend to be more guilty of it because we we do need to verbally process, but we don't have to do so much the insults.

SPEAKER_04 31:22

Well, the gossip is really tough. And I know that women, you know, we there's a fine line. We've talked about this in our other some of our other podcasts, because I think gossip fell under one of the other topics that we did not that long ago. But we have a tendency to want to discuss how is it going with someone? What's going on with you? And it can kind of it comes from a usually a positive place, but then it can start to teeter into gossip and it just becomes very negative. It becomes this environment of, gosh, if you're saying that about her, what are you saying about me? We just don't want to get into that. And I know this is tough for women, and the insult part is absolutely something you can do something about. You can always make sure that you respond to insults in in an appropriate way and and strive to not insult others. And I think a lot of these things happen very quietly. Insults that are passive aggressive.

SPEAKER_00 32:16

Well, here's a here's an issue. Have you ever been insulted to your face? What do you do if someone says something really unkind to your face? A lot of us, including me, I tend to freeze. Some people kind of lash out. I tend to freeze and then later think I should have said this or I should have said that. The the best thing that I wish I could do more often is a little bit of humor. Like, oh, that's one of my and it is one of my quirks. Like somebody told me recently, you're too sensitive. It's an insult, but it's there's a lot worse things.

SPEAKER_04 32:54

Well, when someone says to someone who is very sensitive that you're too sensitive, that is extremely insensitive to say.

unknown 33:02

I know.

SPEAKER_00 33:02

Okay, but but how do you respond to it?

SPEAKER_04 33:05

There's the well, that's kind of the humorous part of it, at least for me, because I've been told that I'm too sensitive as well. And that's the immediate thought that I have when someone says that to me. How could you say that to me? If you if you really think that about me, there's another way that you can convey that that is more kind.

SPEAKER_00 33:21

Don't don't allude to their sensitivity at all.

SPEAKER_04 33:24

Well, and I can't force people to be kind. So the best thing that you can do is just in a sense kind of stand up for yourself. Yeah, you know, maybe I am sensitive and I probably need to work on that, but that was not a nice delivery. That was not the way to get your point across. Usually in a delivery that is that is meant to be hurtful.

SPEAKER_00 33:42

Well, you could be snarky and say that's what people who are insensitive say.

SPEAKER_04 33:48

Exactly. Because it's true. It's true, but it doesn't are sensitive. Yeah. So what? So okay, so maybe it's yeah, exactly. So sue me.

SPEAKER_00 34:02

Or here's another one that's not very nice. Who made you the Pope? I've heard that one. Yeah. I mean, it's it's better to, if you can, to come back with some humor. And if you get there's a certain person that tends to do these things to you, think of something in advance. Because it in case you freeze, you might freeze and think, I can't say anything. I don't want to say you're rude because then that escalates it.

SPEAKER_04 34:27

Yeah, or you could even say something. I've said this before when someone said, Gosh, I didn't know you were that sensitive. And I know it was meant in kind of a humorous kind of jokey way. And I said, Yeah, I know, I've been told that a lot. I really need to work on that, don't I? Or we both just start laughing.

SPEAKER_00 34:41

Or you could say, Oh, you have no idea. I'm way more sensitive than that. Go go in it even more. Oh, that's nothing. Wait till you see me get going.

SPEAKER_04 34:50

Yeah, just I think just try to stay away from those insults if you can. And and if if you accidentally catch yourself insulting someone in this similar way, you can just apologize for it. You can have the recovery ready to go. I'm sorry, I didn't mean that that for that to come out that way.

SPEAKER_00 35:05

Yeah. Oh, I'm sorry. That I didn't mean that. I don't know what's right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 35:10

The last one under destroying conversations is whispering and excluding. And oh my goodness, that I said this earlier about the interrupting and reminding me of children. And this one also reminds me of children. Yeah. Little girls whispering in corners.

SPEAKER_00 35:24

And look and kind of looking at other people in the room.

SPEAKER_01 35:26

You're not allowed to play with us.

SPEAKER_00 35:28

Yeah, yeah. But adults do it too. Adults. Yeah, they do an adult version of it.

SPEAKER_04 35:34

There we don't really ever grow out. Some of us don't grow out of this. They exclude it's it's a big problem where I live. There, it's very clicky here. And you know, you're gonna destroy conversations if someone is just simply not worthy of joining your conversation.

SPEAKER_03 35:50

You ever felt that way?

SPEAKER_00 35:52

I have. Yes, yes, I have. Yeah. And then and then I usually end up thinking, oh brother, as an adult, I usually tend to think, I don't really need that kind of relationship anyway.

SPEAKER_04 36:04

Well, if you're in a conversation and someone's kind of leaving you out, or you aren't noticing that someone is left out, that's where that's where this message comes through is notice that someone is being left out and help them out. Okay, the third point that we want to talk about today is curiosity. Curiosity is attractive and it creates better relationships. What are we talking about with curiosity?

SPEAKER_00 36:28

You know, when you're curious about people in it just wanting to know, not where you're saying, uh, how much money do you make? kind of a thing, but more like you're curious about a person and who they are and what they're interested in. Your curiosity about another person is very unselfish and it it's all about uh your interest in them. It's not about you trying to kind of grill them for information. Does that make sense? Yeah, I think that's all depending on your personality though. Yeah, well, if you're not curious about a person, it's probably because you're more worried about how you're how you're coming across. Because really every person is interesting if you actually learn about their lives. Everybody would be interested.

SPEAKER_04 37:17

Well, and I think sometimes it's the whole thing that we don't like to say in society, but it's so true. You can't judge a book by its cover. You do judge people by the way that they are.

SPEAKER_00 37:27

Everybody does it, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:28

And then you don't feel any curiosity about that person, you don't want to relate to that person because you've already kind of accidentally decided that you have nothing in common. And I think this can be a really tricky one for sure, especially in the society that we live in where everything is so on your phone and on the screen, and we we kind of avoid this curiosity about other people. We don't want to call them, we want to text them, and we don't want to have that courage to kind of go just go up to somebody and talk to them. We kind of ignore each other.

SPEAKER_00 38:01

Why do you think our culture is devolving, whatever, into more texting than talking? It's easier. Well, well, why would why wouldn't you want to talk to someone?

SPEAKER_04 38:16

It's I mean, everybody wants the easy button in life, and I think when you can hit that easy button of, oh, I can actually think about what I want to say. I don't want to say the wrong thing. When you're texting someone, you can delete a sentence before you press send if you kind of have second thoughts about it.

SPEAKER_00 38:34

And problem with the problem with texting that all the sense, uh, even if we don't know too well, is that you can't you can be easily misunderstood in a text because there's no tone in your voice.

SPEAKER_04 38:47

Right. Well, that's why emojis are so popular, not to get too much off onto a tangent, but I think the point we're trying to make here is that being curious about someone is oftentimes the simplest things, is just having the nerve or the courage to walk up to them and talk to them um and and start a conversation. That alone is a huge step forward, especially with the younger generation. That's all they're doing. Every time I pass a bus stop with kids, every single day I pass them, they're all on their phones at the bus stop.

SPEAKER_00 39:24

Really?

SPEAKER_04 39:25

They're all texting someone, none of them are speaking to each other. And that to me says none of them are curious about each other, even though they're there every morning at the same place, at the same time, they don't even know each other's names. And this is something that our kids are not being taught. It's hard. I'm having a hard time teaching my children about this. It's just saying what's your name? They they think that's embarrassing.

SPEAKER_00 39:50

That's another whole thing. Our culture is gonna have to figure out. You take that into adulthood, that can really cause some issues.

SPEAKER_04 39:56

Well, and and that brings us to the next point is we were gonna talk about with curiosity being, you know, attractive and part of this topic. When you have to start dating, when you want to meet men, when you want to make make friends, just meeting people suddenly you have to socialize, but you're so used to everything being on the phone and or maybe just you know behind a screen in general, and you're not used to that kind of genuine curiosity. And I'm not saying you can't be curious over the phone, of course you can't. You can be curious and you can text people, but I don't want to diminish phone conversations because those are a form of curiosity.

SPEAKER_00 40:34

There really isn't any anything to make up for that. Um, and and maybe this is one of the reasons we're having to do podcasts like this because people are less skilled from childhood, they don't learn some of these skills as early.

SPEAKER_04 40:52

Exactly. Ding ding ding. Yeah, yeah. Because they the especially the younger generation, they are going into the dating years and the college years, and they're they've had their whole social existence up until then, majority being through technology, they don't have a ton of face-to-face. Maybe they do with their closer friends, but you have to at some point branch out, and you have to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_00 41:19

Yeah, I tell you what, if you're gonna marry someone, at some point you have to be face-to-face.

SPEAKER_04 41:24

Well, and it's not even just about romantic relationships. What about your boss? What about your coaches? What about your teachers? You need to be able to learn to have conversations with those people, and it's difficult to suddenly gain those skills, they take time and practice.

SPEAKER_00 41:41

Yeah, they're not difficult, but you do need to you do need to learn them.

SPEAKER_04 41:45

Well, and curiosity is so many things, like you said, it's um noticing people, it's making people feel comfortable, it's being able to share humor with people. There's so many parts to that, but I think a lot of it needs to come from experimenting with it.

SPEAKER_00 42:02

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 42:03

And then there's also that part we were going to talk about conversation starters, something that can help you start a conversation. What are some of your tips for that?

SPEAKER_00 42:13

Well, what I have what I have done and noticed is uh for one thing, if somebody, if you want to meet somebody in their conversation with a group, don't go up and just insert yourself. You kind of have to wait for an opening. But when they're like, say they're at a say they're at a food table getting a snack, you can go up to them and start with a compliment. And you could say, Hi, I'm so and so. What's your name? I've noticed you. You could do that, or you could say, I just wanted to mention I really like those uh shoes you're wearing. Those are really nice, they really look good on you. You could start by something physical like that, not not like you're hot. Right, that's a little bit too much, but and then after that, ask them about where they're from or what are their interests. Compliments. Conversation starters are always good with sincere, specific compliments, and that don't mean you're hot.

SPEAKER_04 43:07

Yeah. And if you're shy, something that I was I was extremely shy when I was younger. And one thing that really helped me a lot was wearing things that could start a conversation. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 43:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:19

Um, can you talk a little bit about like what that means to wear something to start a conversation?

SPEAKER_00 43:23

Um, yeah, you could wear an interesting look for and wear an interesting piece of jewelry or a hair ornament or something that's a little different that gets conversations started started. And um there was there's a book, um, was it Sex in the Single Girl, I think. And she suggests, she said she found a really unusual brooch that she wore because it was so unusual, people always asked about it. And so she wore it as a conversation starter. Because people always asked about it.

SPEAKER_04 43:54

Yeah, we had a I used to work at a clothing store and we had a line of prints. That we would sell every season, and they were called conversation prints. I loved that line. It sold like hotcakes, by the way, side note. But I loved that line because it was deliberately designed for people that wanted to start a conversation through the print they were wearing. So it was quirky stuff, like tiny vintage phones printed all over a blouse or um lipstick uh tubes. Yeah, lipstick tubes kind of like placed in a fun way and just lots of silly, quirky things, little little dogs or little tigers or something. I remember one of them in particular uh was a kite, and I loved that it had kites all over it, and they were just tiny little kites. But the point is that we would tell our customers, like, you should try this on. It's so great. It's a conversation starter, and they would tell they would share stories about how people would come up to them and be like, Do you like vintage phones? And they because they had vintage phones all over there.

SPEAKER_00 45:02

And I think that's a really great way for you to get as a shy person, especially, to get a hand a handbag could be like that too, and it isn't even something you wear. Yeah. Uh uh if you have a handbag that's unusual, um, something that you deliberately choose as a conversation starter.

SPEAKER_04 45:21

And then the last part about being curious with people is just the gentle reminder to let your conversations breathe. What does that mean?

SPEAKER_00 45:31

You can allow for pauses or nobody saying anything for a few seconds. When you can kind of sense a conversation is being forced, like nobody in the group is really that into it. You can uh change the subject or take a break from it. You don't have to continue until it reaches some kind of natural conclusion.

SPEAKER_04 45:50

Yeah, I also think it's about being aware when a conversation is over.

unknown 45:54

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:56

Yeah. There was a line from there's so many great movie lines. We've exhausted the topic.

SPEAKER_04 46:01

Yes, we've exhausted this topic. And it's okay if the topic has look for those signs though. And I think this is a marriage tip, at least for me anyway. This happens all the time between me and my husband because he is not a verbal expressor, and I uh obviously am. And so actually the same thing with me. Same with me. I have to catch myself when I'm going on and on about something. And part of the the catching yourself is simply looking for those cues. And for my husband, it's him looking around the room. It's like he's ever pulling.

SPEAKER_00 46:36

Does he ever pull out his phone?

SPEAKER_04 46:39

No, he's he's nicer than that. He doesn't do that, but but he'll look around the room and he'll um he'll kind of he'll start saying, uh-huh, uh-huh. Oh, yeah, yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_00 46:49

That whole thing, and then you're like, that whole thing, and you know, he's done.

SPEAKER_04 46:53

He's done.

SPEAKER_00 46:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 46:54

Yeah. Okay, the fourth out of the five things that we're gonna hit today about conversation skills is reading the room. Now, this has a lot to do, it's primarily, I should say, about body language. What are some body language tips that we can have for reading the room? You mean how to? How to read the room? What are some body language like tips for body language?

SPEAKER_00 47:19

Well, uh, people who uh fold their arms, folding their arms. It's uh folding your arms is kind of a self-protection thing that people do to kind of keep their kind of bubble close, if you know what I mean. Maybe oh well, obviously you already mentioned well, I mentioned it, looking at your phone. Well, what do they what do those things mean that you I think you said it means that uh they're not comfortable, right?

SPEAKER_04 47:43

They're not comfortable for whatever it is.

SPEAKER_00 47:46

It could be that they don't like the conversation, it could be that they're tired. I mean, it could be many things, but you can notice it easily, kind of not require them to staying in the conversation or whatever it is, uh tapping your feet, like you said, your husband scanning the room.

SPEAKER_04 48:03

Looking for the nearest exit?

SPEAKER_00 48:05

Yeah, looking for the nearest exit.

SPEAKER_04 48:06

I think part of reading the room is being just aware of people in general. So if you're seeing that there's someone uncomfortable, it's up to you to decide. Well, do they would they does that person look like someone that would like for me to come over there and help them to not feel comfortable? Or does that person look like they really genuinely want to be left alone? And I think you this is emotional intelligence, really.

SPEAKER_00 48:30

It is because it may be that they um say you're not even the hostess, you're just at a gathering party, and you see someone like that, they may have received some really bad news, maybe really worried about something and kind of want to digest it themselves, they may want to be alone, but on the other hand, they may they may welcome you. That's like you said, emotional intelligence, right?

SPEAKER_04 48:53

Well, I I watched this video clip of Sally Field yesterday. You know who Sally Field is? Yes, I do. Yeah, she starred in the movie uh Mrs. Doubtfire with Robin Williams, and she this reminds me of what she said about Robin Williams. He had such amazing emotional intelligence. Now I know he wasn't a lady, and we're talking about ladylike behavior, but I think this is an exception with a male being able to read the room. They were filming the scene in Mrs. Doubtfire where they were um in court and they were discussing custody. And when they were getting ready to film that scene, she had just found out that her father passed away just right before.

SPEAKER_00 49:30

You know, I think we both saw the same thing.

SPEAKER_04 49:33

Oh, really? Yeah, I thought that was last night. She went into the scene and nobody knew, but he picked up that something was wrong, and I think this is exactly what we're talking about. Her body language said something to him. He picked up on it, he talked to her, and he found out what had happened to her, and he said, We're done filming for the day. And I I couldn't help but get a little teary-eyed because I thought to myself, what an amazing person that can pick up on those things in such a busy moment, a heat of the moment, trying to get something done.

SPEAKER_00 50:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 50:08

Um, that is all non-verbal. Yeah, she didn't say anything, she was prepared to get through the scene and do it all, and and he picked up on it. And I think that is the heart of what we're talking about, is is being able to handle that situation so wonderfully. And she never forgot it.

SPEAKER_00 50:27

Well, and also when he shut down production for the day or I think he let her he he supported her going to the funeral, which wasn't in town wherever she was. And that meant a loss of money because they didn't get they didn't get the movie done on the schedule that they had planned. So it was more than the one thing, it was um it was broader than that. And it really impressed me that he would do that.

SPEAKER_04 50:53

Right. I think that's just such a great reminder that things are not always about you. I think sometimes we pick up on body language from people and we might think, oh, is this about me? Are they upset with me? Do they not want to see me? Did I do something? I do this all the time. I I as someone that's a little bit more sensitive, I might see someone and maybe they don't greet me or they don't um acknowledge me. And I might think, oh, what did I do? I must have done something. But to remind yourself, it's not always about you, it might be about something else that that person's going through.

SPEAKER_00 51:28

Yes. That you know nothing about.

SPEAKER_04 51:31

I mean, yeah. And everyone's going through something. I think we said this in the last podcast. Everybody's battling something, so just reminding yourself of that can really relieve some of that, maybe perhaps anxiety that you might have socially. I had a couple that I asked a dinner, this was several years ago, multiple times. Would you like to have dinner with us sometime? Oh, yeah, we should do that. We should you like to have so when it came down to hey, you want to do dinner on Friday, it would always be a I I don't I don't think it's gonna work out or I'm busy. And I finally gave up. And I think I asked you about it at the time, and you said, Well, you just never know what's going on with people. And I thought, Oh, I just really am hurt that they don't ever want to grab dinner with us. Well, I found out later that they were having horrible marriage problems, and then they got divorced.

SPEAKER_02 52:18

Oh, yeah, so it really had nothing to do with wanting to.

SPEAKER_04 52:22

I felt so foolish afterwards because I thought, oh, I should have I should have picked up on that. How did I miss that?

SPEAKER_00 52:27

So it's difficult. It's difficult. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 52:31

Yeah. Uh so what are some signs of? We've talked about kind of more reading the room and seeing negative things. What are some signs that maybe things are going well? And maybe you're not sure if someone is maybe you're you're in a conversation and you're worried that you might be monopolizing. What are some positive signs that things are going well?

SPEAKER_00 52:49

Oh, they're relaxed, smiling, maybe engaged. Um, you can tell they're that they're kind of forgetting about the surroundings and into whatever's being said. They don't notice the time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 53:05

Yeah, leaning in, yeah. Um, really good eye contact, smiling, kind of some of the things we talked about earlier. That make people feel seen if they're doing something and you feel seen, this is going well. You know, what are some social mistakes that a lot of people make that you think are really common?

SPEAKER_00 53:24

One of them kind of reverts back to what we just said is you know ignoring emotional cues. And and and that is that is a type of skill and intelligence. It's usually we miss those when we're more concerned with how we're coming across.

SPEAKER_04 53:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:39

It's easier to see than when we actually get outside of ourselves and look at other people and and just focusing on what we want to say next or how we can come across better. It's easy to miss. It's easy to miss them.

SPEAKER_04 53:54

I think this is one I I do have to say for the ladies out there that drink and while they're socializing, if you're drinking when you're socializing, this is probably the first thing to go, is your emotional cues and paying attention. And I've seen it so many times. You be with somebody and they're drinking and they start to lose that because it you're it's almost like you're you're losing control of yourself a little bit. That's why I would just say go slower, or or just pull back on it in general. Okay, the last point we want to talk about, and this is probably the biggest one, is conflict tension and social recovery. This is the one that I think we get asked about the most. This has to do with when you're in a conversation and there is conflict, and you really are trying to reduce that emotional damage, but it's happening really fast. Usually that's what's happening, is it's this all kind of seems to happen quickly or it happens often. And then you're thinking to yourself, what do I do?

SPEAKER_00 55:04

I know how do I get out of this? Yeah. That that when when it's escalating, you think, oh no, then what do you do? And you know, because we've talked before, it's in it's in timeless about emotionally loaded topics. If you can avoid some of these, you're gonna be better off. But sometimes things kind of bleed into it. Sometimes someone you're with brings something up. It isn't always you. Sometimes some well, like when I said someone says, How much money do you make? Of course, you know, you can you can uh you can divert that and not ask, you don't have to answer it and say that's a rude that's a rude thing to ask. You can just kind of change the subject, but uh there are very emotionally loaded topics, and some people have you noticed some people look for opportunities to talk about how they feel about those things more than others.

SPEAKER_04 55:54

Yes, and it's very uncomfortable and it can be really quick. It's suddenly you're having a wonderful conversation, and then somebody just starts talking about politics and it just jumps into the especially nowadays. Yes, especially nowadays. That's one for me that I just I I know the last podcast that we did was about self-discipline, and we talked about your moral code. This is one of my moral codes that I have in my life, is there's a list of things that I I just won't talk about. And I think that's okay for you to have a list of things that you just know, you know what, I unless I'm with this crowd of people, maybe there's a group that you will, but everybody else, I am not gonna go there with these things. I'm not gonna talk about politics with most of my friends because we we don't agree and it's just something I'm not gonna do.

SPEAKER_00 56:42

Yeah. Now what to but the the question uh comes up, what do you do if they do it? Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 56:49

So what are what are the topics? Let's go through the emotionally loaded topics and then let's go through what we would do if they were brought up.

SPEAKER_00 56:57

Not not literally every single one, but like using them as generally you mean the things not to talk about the most oh well politics, obviously. And when I was a when I was a kid, of course I didn't care about politics then. But adults talking about it, I don't think there was as big a divide then. But now it's fiery, it's absolutely fiery. Okay, so another one is abortion, hot topic.

SPEAKER_04 57:22

Unless you know, unless you know that you feel the same about it with who even then, I just don't think it's unless it's like a really close person in your life, don't talk about it, unless it's actually a problem with someone and they're asking you, hey, do you think that's different? It's more the chit-chatting kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 57:44

Okay, money, money, like how much do you make, what to invest in. I mean, uh, those kinds of things. Well, they become really personal.

SPEAKER_04 57:53

Well, like how much your renovations just cost and how much costs. I get that, I hear that a lot. I just got this car and it costs it it's it's not necessarily bad to share those things, but it can make some people feel uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_00 58:07

Well, if somebody asks, if somebody asks me how much we how much our car costs, unless I knew them well, I wouldn't, I wouldn't think, are they gonna judge me if I say and they think it's too much, or are they gonna judge me if they think it's not good enough? Or things like that. So another one is race, gender, and also deeply personal questions, like say you had a hysterectomy. You know, talking, talking about they hey, uh hey, have you ever had a hysterectomy? You may not want to talk about those kind of subjects. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 58:43

So what are the responses for some of those things when someone jumps into it? What do you do?

SPEAKER_00 58:49

What do you do? Well, I guess it kind of depends. First of all, if you know them well, if you don't. If you don't know them well, changing the subject, you know what? Have you ever watched politicians? They they can be asked a direct question by a journalist and they don't they talk and talk and don't ever answer it. I thought that's a skill. It's a skill. And even though they're a lot of times disingenuous, you can use some of that knowledge to help you uh smooth over a conversation, if especially if they're being inappropriate.

SPEAKER_04 59:21

Um I think you have to be careful because you don't we talked about being seen and helping people feel seen earlier. And if they're they maybe are misjudging that your relationship is to that place and they can open up about these things and you're uncomfortable and you change the subject. I just think you need to be careful and do that gracefully. Depends how you do it. Yeah, not in a way that's like, well, anyways, you know.

unknown 59:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 59:48

Humor. If you can I I have a brother who's so good at humor, he uh he he always diffuses situations with humor. And it's not it's not awkward humor. The other day, I actually successfully managed, somebody asked me something that was really inappropriate and awkward. And instead of answering, because I thought, what do I say? I can't say I'm not gonna tell you. I said, Oh yeah, that's an interesting question. But first, let me ask you about this, and then we never got back to it. And it actually kind of worked because I didn't ever ha have to answer it, and it wasn't appropriate anyway. So I changed the subject in a way that wasn't abrupt. And they I don't think they noticed it. It's redirecting light humor, don't over-explain. Sometimes we get I don't know if it's ever happened to you, but has somebody ever said something that kind of hooked you emotionally? Oh, yeah. I think that you know, and then you and then you do something you wish you hadn't done, you get you start escalating it. I think the question is uh what do you do in that moment? If someone says something. Okay, if you you forgive yourself if you mess up for one thing, because we we all do it occasionally, but uh light humor, uh acknowledging the awkwardness, like saying if you say something you wish I hadn't said I didn't, I didn't that came out wrong, I didn't mean it that way, or sometimes I've even said, you know, maybe we should change the subject. Sometimes I've had to do that because they just won't stop. Or you can redirect it, don't over-explain yourself.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:28

I think there's a fine line between someone insulting you and you know, triggering you, I guess, and them consistently having toxic conversations with you. And that's where maybe you and I might we might even disagree a little bit on this one. If someone is constantly being toxic around me, I I just am not gonna put up with it. That's just me personally. I just I I don't have enough emotional space for that to move about my life and constantly be around that. And it doesn't mean that you have to confront them in a mean way, but it may mean that these people are not someone that you want to spend a lot of time with.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:11

Well, I yeah, I agree. You may have to limit your time with them. But what sometimes those things happen, like someone brings up uh say politics, because it's a hot button, and they do it in a group, and you look around and you think, I don't want this escalating worse. It may I'm gonna make everybody around me uncomfortable. So uh there's gotta be graceful ways of changing the subject, getting out of it, and then later saying, you know, I'm not gonna I'm gonna avoid this person because they always bring it up.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:41

It's easier in a sense when it's politics because it's not about I know some people it's really passionate and it's it's very difficult, but I think it's it's even take it a step further if it's about someone, if it's a mother-in-law talking about you and how you raise your kids, or if it's a if it's a friend that is talking about another friend and disparaging them and constantly doing it, or constantly talking about their son and what a loser they are, like when it becomes more emotionally triggered with relationships, I think that's where it is it's a step further.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:23

Well, and let's say and let's say it's in a group that makes it even more awkward because it's not just you and them.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:29

Well, and I think some people might say, well, the ladylike thing to do is to just be quiet and sit there and just kind of like change the subject, but not always. Not always you might need to say something to them, and it doesn't need to be mean, it and then the timing matters and the tone matters. I don't know if we have any examples of this because it's probably sounding vague, but I do think that you can pre-plan a lot of these things, especially if it's someone that's doing it a lot.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:57

And you may have to privately with that person talk to them and say, you know, when you bring up this subject, uh, I think we need to agree ahead of time. Let's not talk about this. Or you really hurt my feelings when you said that. And I'm just not I'm just I just can't do that. I I you know, if you when you said this, it made me feel terrible. And and I think we need to get this straight in the beginning. Some people think you know, uh girlishness when appropriate. We always say with girlishness when it's appropriate, because when you're hurt, it isn't appropriate anymore. Right. Then you have then you have to talk about it. But if you can talk about it later, you're probably not gonna be as emotionally wound up because you can think about what you're gonna say unless you know that person and you think, okay, here we go again, we have to go to this get together, and so and so is gonna be there, and they're probably gonna bring up something, they're gonna make it personal about me. And then what you're gonna say, and pre-planning it is really great because then you don't you don't risk saying something you're gonna regret.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:07

Well, there's a difference between de-escalating and saying, you know what, this isn't worth it. Yeah, we always say that is that the hill you want to die on, and then there's the flip side of that of always taking it and yeah, letting people wipe their boots on you, and there's a fine line, and you have to determine what you're willing, what hill are you willing to die on? And and for me personally, I don't want to escalate things if I feel like they're starting to heat up, but I will take it to that place just a tiny bit if the person is a repeat offender, meaning, okay, I've had enough. This happens way too much, and it's time for me to say something. And I think that's where the ladylike behavior thing I think can get a little confusing because we're trying to strive for this elegant, you

SPEAKER_00 1:06:00

know well mannered person but where do you where does it fit in to stand up for yourself in that category have you ever been in a situation where somebody it seems like every time you're around them um they somehow have a dig in for you right mm-hmm and so you you start to think I don't think that person likes me it doesn't matter what I do it doesn't matter what I say they don't like me in those situations I try to avoid them because I can't why do they always make something personal?

SPEAKER_04 1:06:32

But sometimes if you if it's just one-on-one you can say look you know you you're you're always making something personal with me what's what is really going on well that's what I mean when I say where's that fine line there's a fine line between someone wiping their boots on you and you just trying to be well mannered and not escalate things and I think it's so nuanced it just depends on the situation. I think anybody that might be struggling with this this is where we like to hear the stories because if you get a a story you can kind of navigate each one because there's no perfect set of advice for everyone. It's going to be Okay I've I've got a friend and her mother-in-law never liked her never accepted her no matter what she did she tried everything she could think of and she wrote her hate letters said she was evil and stuff like that uh it was and she was alive during the time that I also knew this person and I told her and now she was a mother-in-law so she was a family member so she couldn't entirely avoid her but she could minimize it and and she never did confront her with it because she realized that it was pointless it was absolutely pointless so she avoided her whenever she could because this woman uh just was never gonna like her no matter what she did and confronting her could cause distress to her husband it was sometimes it is really awkward you don't know what to do well I think it's again I think this is the same thing same same response that I have is that you don't want people to take advantage of you right I think some people are in the under the opinion that if I stand up for myself I'm gonna be rude or I'm gonna come across a certain way and I don't want drama I hear that all the time we don't want drama well I think there's I like to challenge that a little bit I think there's a way that you can stand up for yourself and not put up with that because you shouldn't be putting up with that treatment. It's just announcing to the world that you don't have self-esteem or confidence especially if it's a like I said before repeat offender someone that's doing it over and over and over again. I think you really need to pre-plan what you're gonna say to that person.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:49

I agree including that mother-in-law we were talking about now if my friend had felt like she had the support of her husband because that was his mother she could go talk to her privately and saying I'm really tired of you doing this and if you're gonna do this I'm gonna avoid you because this isn't right I've tried everything I know to please you I just I'm just not I just can't put up with it. If you do this I'm gonna do that.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:15

Yes is setting a boundary setting a boundary if anybody out there listening has any stories about this we'd love to hear from you because I know this is this could go on and on and there's so many different ins and outs and ultimately we do want to be peacemakers. We do want to do all of these things on this list but we're humans and it's not about being perfection social elegance is not about being robotic and perfect it's about emotional awareness. And I think that's the heart of all of these points that we've had today. Exactly well I hope you are listening to our entire series about ladylike behavior because we have five episodes in total and I think we have one more left after this one. I'm glad you mentioned I just want to interject I'm glad you mentioned that this is not a state you arrive in you always correct and learn it's not you're not ever going to do everything perfectly always because we're human we get hurt and we don't always react the way we say I reacted just great that time I always react great you don't you're not expected to always do something perfectly exactly no one is no one is ever going to be able to no um but thank you all for for listening mom thank you so much for all of your valuable advice this has been a really wonderful discussion I hope you enjoyed it if this episode resonated with you please feel free to share it with a friend this entire series is designed to help you build your ladylike behavior skills and grow in this area we hope you enjoyed it please visit fascinatingwomanhood.com to find out more about us our story all of the different things we have to offer such as our books classes coaching and much more and we will see you next time and remember to stay feminine bye