Gibran Washington of Ethos Cannabis

In episode 5 of the Talent in Cannabis Podcast, David Belsky, CEO at FlowerHire, welcomes Gibran Washington, CEO of Ethos Cannabis, a vertically integrated multi-state cannabis operator in Pennsylvania, Massachusetts, and Ohio. 

Gibran is a high-velocity venture builder and multi-industry expert who brings a rich, rare mix of operational expertise, a personal connection to the plant, and deep respect for cannabis culture. 

Before joining Ethos, he built his career across food and beverage, hospitality, airport operations, restaurants, and multi-unit retail. He has a deep breadth of experience that prepared him to lead in one of the most complex, fast-moving industries in the country.

In this episode, Gibran dives into:

• Why Ethos positions itself as a craft cannabis company rooted in research, education, and medical efficacy
• What experienced executives from other industries need to understand before jumping into cannabis
• How cannabis culture differs across Pennsylvania, Massachusetts, and Ohio.
• Why Ethos made the bold decision to close retail on 4/20 
• What Pennsylvania needs to do to move adult-use cannabis forward
• Why cannabis M&A is still difficult
• Why attitude, curiosity, and passion for the plant matter more than cannabis experience alone when hiring

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Talent in Cannabis is the Flower Hire podcast featuring candid conversations with leaders and professionals shaping the cannabis industry, where each episode goes beyond job titles to humanize executive careers, exploring real journeys, lessons learned, and what it truly takes to build and lead in cannabis. Flower Hire Talent in Cannabis. I'm sitting here with Jabron Washington, the CEO of Ethos. Thank you for joining today.

SPEAKER_01 0:55

Dave, thanks so much for having me, man. It's a pleasure and honor. It took too long for me to get here, but I'm glad we finally got together.

SPEAKER_00 1:01

Uh well, you are the CEO of a multi-state vertical cannabis business, aka the worst job in the world. So uh thank you for carving out the time. I know you got a lot of folks coming at you all day. It looks like you're in one of your dispensaries today.

SPEAKER_01 1:15

Yeah, yeah. I'm actually uh in our Allentown dispensary, man. I like to, you know, kind of be in the space with the people a lot. So I'm in the grows a lot, the dispensaries a lot, just to surely get your pulse on the business and really try to be. I think my job is, is my job is just to remove obstacles that are in um the staff's way. So being able to see what they are in real time is is always good. And and talking with the customers and the people kind of makes the job go by. And I will have to correct you, I don't think this is the worst job in America, but this is the most thankless job uh in America is being a CEO of a cannabis company or an MSO cannabis company. I can tell you that.

SPEAKER_00 1:48

I mean, just how you've started, I mean, the idea of going out to the shops, seeing how your customers are interacting with your staff, what can you do to unlock more performance in this store and seeing with your own eyes? Like that's you know, and and in instinctually, you know it's your job to do that and and be and be present, especially um what why is a certain store doing well and why are they not? And you start, you know, going and understanding the qualities that really matter and and and you know what your team is doing in those stores and how that's impacting the business. So uh love that you're out in the in the in the wild. And I think thankless is, you know, for the right person, being a cannabis executive is the best job because you're professionally unlocked. Every tool you have at your disposal, you're applying into a job that requires you to continuously learn and evolve your strategic approach. So if you thrive in ideation, you know, it's a great industry to work in, provided you have uh uh a deep well of in the in the tank.

SPEAKER_01 2:48

Um yeah, I totally agree. Totally agree. I kind of like a little bit of the chaos. I mean, throughout my career, I've always been known as a person coming and fix things and fix problems and make them better. Coming into this chaotic world of cannabis, it just fit my personality and and my uh irrational self-confidence that I can do anything that my mother kept telling me when I was a kid. So I like to kind of put it on display and see what happens.

SPEAKER_00 3:09

Uh so tell them about Ethos Cannabis today, 2026. Tell me about Ethos Cannabis.

SPEAKER_01 3:14

Yeah, Ethos Cannabis, um, we're we're an MSO, obviously, as you already stated a little earlier. Uh we're in three states, Pennsylvania, Massachusetts, and Ohio, we're vertical in all three states. Um we like to say we are probably one of the more medical-facing or medical research cannabis companies in the space, and we thrive in education, we thrive and really understand the medical efficacy of the plant and how to kind of apply that to our patients or customers. Because whether or not it's a medical state or a recreational state, we don't look at cannabis as a party drug. We look at it as some type of therapeutic effect you're looking for, whether that's sleep, anxiety, stress. Um, we believe cannabis can can help with those things, uh, maybe not solve those things, but you know, a proper health and diet, and you think cannabis is a medicine. Um, we think that that that's probably the best approach for for what cannabis is and and not portray it as this uh quote unquote recreational substance that's just frivolous and the highest THC wins. So I would say if if you were looking at a cannabis company, some oldest operator, um, we would call ourselves a craft cannabis company um who's based in research and education.

SPEAKER_00 4:16

Well, uh one thing I like about um your you know sort of store experience and how you describe it, you do cater to the recreational smoker that wants a high quality product because um your brands are fire. On the flip side of it, if you ever go to an AU store, half the people that go in there in some areas are like 40 to 75 years old in there for definitely some type of true medical or wellness purpose. And and so to uh recognize that as the roots of cannabis and why it's here and make sure that that's present in terms of how you train your staff and how they interact uh and communicate with your customers, um, you know, it lands and it's and it it seems so simple, but so many organizations oh we're a rec shop and they talk about you know THC percentage and that's all that their staff knows, right? And uh, you know, you you don't you attract a different type of employee um in that type of place versus a place where you actually feel like you can help people.

SPEAKER_01 5:20

So we try to put a culture around that and and try to uh let your employees personify some of these behaviors that you kind of listed out, and and we think that it's working. Um we feel as though, like you said earlier, our brands are fire and high quality, and and even if it's you're an adult use or an AU state and you're using our products, we still feel there's probably a reason behind that, and we're still trying to address that that reason. Even if it is not, you're not a medical patient per se, you're not a prescription. Uh most of us are you know trying to wind down or get away from something or you know, release your mind, or you have an ailment of some nature. So we we made a product that we feel applies um to every kind of format or applicable um uh applicable application um of what cannabis can be used for.

SPEAKER_00 6:04

So t tell me about uh your career before becoming the CEO of Ethos, which was almost four years. I I can't believe it.

SPEAKER_01 6:12

I mean well, I've been at Ethos now going on four years. Uh I've been CEO going on three years here coming up. So um well, I guess we'll start at Ethos and kind of work our way back. So I came in at Ethos from the food and beverage world and I'll go into a little bit more where I started there. Um and then within that first year, um I was able to do make enough trouble uh or disrupted enough where I had the opportunity to be able to take over the organization. Uh so I've been at Ethos going on four years, CEO three, vice president of retail wholesale supply chain before that. It's it's been an interesting journey while I've been in cannabis, but I think the journey leading up into it is probably what helped prepare me best. Um I started in the food and beverage business. Uh my family has a lot of restaurants in the Southeast, so I'm used to um a highly regulated space as most of our businesses are inside of actual airports. Um I'm used to the regulate the regulated element of the space. I'm also used to small small margins. Um and a lot of the bar interaction is very similar to the dispensary interaction in terms of that relationship that you have with the guests and the customer, and and usually that the stronger that relationship, the better the the the narrative is around that person wanting to come back and talk about you and and your and your business. Um so it kind of prepared me for a lot of what happened in cannabis, um, but it wasn't what I would call a direct linear linear approach. You know, I left my family's business um almost a decade ago now, and then went into um Sedexo, which I was running the Delta Sky Clubs on the Eastern Seaboard before that. Um so I had that luxury airline kind of experience in running those those sky clubs. And then from there I went to work for a company called Purple Square Management. And this was a gentleman who was um goober successful. Um he had a small business in 2015, about 15 restaurants, and as of today, he says had about over 400 businesses. Um and in that time frame, what I was doing with him was I was running his Dunkin' Donuts, Baskin Robbins, a couple donut factories, um, Take Five Oil Changes, an eyelash studio. He also had some rent centers, rent of wheels, and now he's into um urgent care. So that experience really kind of made me put my entrepreneurship hat on, and I was working in multiple different industries all at once. Um, I think we bought 30 restaurants during my time there, and I opened another 27 more from the ground up, so you know, that's less than 20 months. Um so that hyperactivity that we kind of went through, again, that chaos, again, helped prepare me for some of the steps that um you know that I've kind of gone through at cannabis. But my first experience with cannabis, I was probably about 10 years old, and um, and I had this bifurcated experience with it. Um, because I had a brother who I have older brothers, and you know, if you have a younger brother, you understand that they bring you along with them so that you can't tell on them when they're doing the wrong thing. So I was exposed to cannabis as a young kid and used cannabis throughout uh my athletic career. I played college basketball, um, and cannabis was um was therapeutic for me. CBD became therapeutic for me. And then my father also during that same time frame got cancer. Um, and I watched a high-powered executive use cannabis as a therapeutic tool, and I had my brother who was using it as a recreational economic resource um before it became completely legal. Um and unfortunately I lost both of them, lost my father to cancer, and I lost my brother to the war on drugs as he got caught up in in that atmosphere. Um so my journey with cannabis has always been intertwined since I was young, and then the corporate experience as it came together. Um I felt that, you know, coming to cannabis and bringing both of these skill sets, which I didn't think a lot of cannabis executives had, um, which was this long history and understanding with cannabis, plus the corporate training, and you know, kind of ended up here at Ethos, which I think is is probably one of the best cannabis companies in the country. I'm not biased at all, but you know, I do think that regardless.

SPEAKER_00 9:54

Well, if you guys were just more states, you know, we'd all know that. Um just very true. Very true. But your your customers in Ohio, Pennsylvania, Massachusetts, and the Northeast Corridor definitely uh have have a better I better idea of that. And thank you for sharing your your story and and um you know just uh it's been part of your life. So having the opportunity to go apply your skills you learn in your career to this industry when it came to you, you know, it it it felt it felt correct. You know, um based on all the stuff you've done, like this had to be like almost like less going on in in Ethos than some of the you know uh platforms, the family business plus the the platforms in in the in retail hospitality, um the in manufacturing that you've you've done before. It's almost easier.

SPEAKER_01 10:50

I say yes and no. Um I think in some regards, you know, mentally um better prepared probably than most to kind of deal with some of the hassle that goes in the industry, but I think the industry suffers from the lack of uh robust systems um and processes and infrared technological infrastructure that you know you would kind of see in some of these other established industries that we were kind of talking about before, where like the ability to be able to look at the business from a high level with a scalpel is a lot harder in cannabis because of the segmentated nature um and the state-by-state uh element that kind of exists in cannabis. So that there's there are some definite benefits from my history in in the past, but that also um I get frustrated knowing that these things do exist outside of cannabis and how much easier it would be if we had some of these tools and resources in our in our toolbox.

SPEAKER_00 11:36

Well, well, just from uh from a pace perspective, you definitely had operated uh beyond the the pace of it. It's unique challenges to cannabis for sure, but you've been taking on unique challenges professionally in your in your in your life. Um so what advice do you have if let's say I'm an operational executive, I was working at Total Wine or Bevmo or or even like a big box, like Home Depot, and I got myself deployed, went over a hundred stores. Um, and but I'm I'm tired of working in that industry. I want to take my talents to cannabis, or I'm coming from PNG, and you know, I'm a brand manager and I understand brand. Like, what's your advice for anyone who's like a you know experienced professional to executive level from another industry considering saying, yeah, I want to work in cannabis?

SPEAKER_01 12:28

I think that uh the first thing I would tell them is if this is your pathway to get rich fast, um, this is probably not the industry or the timing for that to happen. You either need to get in 2019 or maybe wait a few years if you want more stability. But if you're if you have entrepreneurial um skill set and drive and demeanor, I think that there's a lot of transferable skills from some of these established industries that you could use coming in. But if you're not ready to fly a plane while you're building it, this is probably not the industry for you. Um if you want certainty, uh if you want assurance that you know up is up is up and right is right, then this is also probably not the industry for you. You gotta be more um ready to evolve and and ready to be adaptable to everything that cannabis is gonna kind of throw at you. But you know, don't come in thinking this is a get rich quick scheme. Um don't think that all of your your toolbox from your previous world or your previous experience, you can just dust them off and just apply it to cannabis because a lot of times those individuals, especially you know, the those executives that you named, um have kind of done things to some of these larger MSO companies and and ruined them. Um and thought that they could use some of those playbooks from CPG and traditional retail. Um, and they would work here by just saying that, you know, cannabis is simplistic, it's just weed, right? Um, but they didn't understand the nuance that exists when you talk about a cannabis company. It's not a commodity um like apples or oranges or anything else like that. There's a lot more nuances to that um than just the THC level and everything else.

SPEAKER_00 13:56

I mean, I agree, I agree. You know, I mean it comes down to like are are you a startup person? Are you ready for that? And you know, are you uh taking a big bet on yourself as a three to five years? Are you ready to make less money than you would in a private equity backed CPG business, you know, but but also learn a ton. You know, you know, are you ready are you ready to be humble again? Yeah, those those things. But you sound like I mean you're you sound like a headhunter. You sound like you're you're you're used to explaining what it's like pitching this industry to other people. You must have recruited some really strong talent to join Ethos since since you started, because you describe it really well.

SPEAKER_01 14:34

Well, I think there's there's a double-sided coin to that. So yes, um I I think I can you know verbally describe you know what the industry is and what we do, and and I try to use that that skill set or that gift to be able to set that culture um and be transparent with the people that do work for us here at Ethos so they can understand the industry that they're in and and take solace in the fact that what they're doing today, one has never been done before because this is a brand new industry and it's just as tough for you as it's for anybody else. And then the talent, you know, I've been able to get some wonderful talent um to come to Ethos, but I was blessed, you know, with inheriting a group of individuals who were badass, um, you know, from the different heads that we have in a lot of our departments. Um, you know, a lot of them have been here even before I got here, um, and they are really the backbone of of what we do and why we do things. Uh I'll take maybe some some blame for all the things that go wrong and give them all the credit, but uh the only thing that I really did was set up the systems and the processes, um, create a culture that makes people want to come back and want to be a part of. And, you know, I let the smarter people in the room be smart and challenge the the status quo. And I think that's been part of our success is is taking what we have and enhancing it, making it better, um, and creating an environment where, you know, I think three and a half years is the average uh length of employment here at Ethos. And you know, I think most cannabis companies can't say that.

SPEAKER_00 15:53

Retaining the core team through uh a leadership transition, you know, folks that predate you. I mean, coming in and building having the platform to build credibility, taking over all commercial operations and you know, and seeing how you can do to unlock growth and you know and all that stuff builds credibility. But uh you know, you're right.

SPEAKER_01 16:12

It is unique to find a company that has 400 to 500 employees. Yeah, four hundred and change. So almost five hundred people work here at Ethos, brave women and and and men who who kind of work for us and sign up every day to say, hey, I'm as crazy as you, or I want to I want to run down this this road with you. So yeah, we're really lucky and blessed that you know they do want to play in our sandbox and and believe that they're working for a company that has the right mission, passion, and vision uh that they can align themselves with and and trust them.

SPEAKER_00 16:44

All right, I'm gonna ask you more some questions just about like the market in general and and your your read on this stuff. Uh so you you talk about culture. Um I've observed because I am fortunate enough to get to go travel and run into people like you in the wild from time to time, that like cannabis culture exists everywhere, but every state has a different feel to it, its own version of it. So talking about the culture in like Ohio stores with Pennsylvania and Mass, like versus your team versus how they, you know, what have you noticed how different it is on a on a state-by-state basis?

SPEAKER_01 17:16

I think, you know, from uh a global, not a global standpoint, maybe a national standpoint, we think of cannabis as, you know, 200, 2009 or whatever it was when California made their transition. And sometimes we forget this miracle plant um has been around for a long time. Um so the culture that has been created is unique to where you are. You know, I grew up part of my life in Philadelphia, part of my life in Florida, and those cannabis cultures are very different. So when you think about the three states that we operate in, Ohio has a very rich legacy market. You know, you think about the hills of Mexico and the things that kind of came out of the Midwest historically, um, the genetic library and the quality and the understanding of the plant in Ohio is very similar to where I see, like in Massachusetts, where again you have a legacy market that has a different appreciation and understanding and acceptance, frankly, for what cannabis is and what cannabis has been. Um and in Pennsylvania, you kind of have something that's kind of in the middle of the two, very medically heavy, um, a lot more education with the patient base and the employee base as it relates to what this plant is. Not saying there wasn't a historical um significance to cannabis in Pennsylvania, but you know, I make tell of myself here on this podcast, but I I never bought anything from Ohio in Florida that was shipped down, but I bought stuff in Massachusetts, Maine, Canada, and I damn sure didn't buy anything but Pennsylvania that was shipped down to Florida. So, you know, when you think about the historical culture that exists in the states that we currently operate, the three that we operate in, Ohio and Mass has had this rich, long history with cannabis. Um, whether you want to talk about it or not, it's existed. Um, and Pennsylvania is trying to catch up to some of what New York's culture is, what New Jersey's culture is. However, I will say that from a medical efficacy standpoint, Pennsylvania has the best medical and educational program across the board that any state um in the Union as it relates to cannabis. The way that they take care of the patient, they want to educate the patients, the structure around the program, the fact that we have pharmacists in all of our stores to be able to ask questions to and consult in real time with you, it creates a whole nother element of connection and purpose, I think, with the customer and with the employee about, you know, the causation of what we do, how do we use something, and then seeing someone, you know, really go through a process or a regimen that they come back and like, oh my God, uh, I feel so much better. So, you know, I think I see more of that in PA, but I see more of the legacy cannabis culture in those other two states.

SPEAKER_00 19:41

You know, when I started Flower Higher in California in 2017, there's a lot of money raised there in 2018 uh around this thesis that people in Ohio wanted West Coast brands, you know, and and blown, um, you know, lit on fire. Um you know, because you that's not necessarily true. I mean, in in Massachusetts, you find strains called seaweed OG. You know, like there's you know, people won't don't want California. Some people probably would love some grown outdoor California weed, you know, but people want local people, especially in states that have culture and history with it, right? Uh you know, Pennsylvania sounds like Pennsylvania's version is kind of like the sanitized medical MSO version of cannabis, you know, versus the the the the flavor of it you find in like a Ohio or a Michigan or uh or a Massachusetts. But I I get what you're saying.

SPEAKER_01 20:38

Much richer tapestries than those others you say in Pennsylvania. However, Pennsylvania's catching up. You know, there's no knock on Pennsylvania and and what it is, but you know, historically it's it's it's a conservative somewhat state.

SPEAKER_00 20:50

I'm okay if you knock on Pennsylvania. I'm a Cowboys fan, you know.

SPEAKER_01 20:53

So um Well, I'm an Eagle, so I'm originally from Philly, so you know, I'm sorry that you're a Cowboys fan, man. And you know, we'll count our championships up later in the last 20 years, um, let it let alone you guys like to bring up the 60s, but the last 20 years we've owned you. Um and we are the most dominant team in the NFC East. So, you know, hopefully you and Jerry's world can get some championships back that way.

SPEAKER_00 21:13

I did, I did enough Philadelphia's a lovely city. You know, I wanted to hate it. I really did. But I had such a great time that I was in Philly twice last year. Um I actually went to the link. I saw Metallica at the link, and I'm like, this is like a gladiator arena in here. Yeah you know, it was like like limp biscuit open for them, and like the heavens started pouring rain during like break stuff, and I'm just sitting there like this is amazing. You know, I hate that I'm enjoying myself so much right here. But uh, okay. Is is is Ohio living up to its promise? I mean, you think about like 200 or so licenses, limited canopy size. To be a vertical operator in Ohio, like it seems uh like it's uh it is it what it was advertised. Is it that great opportunity?

SPEAKER_01 21:57

I think the funny words you use is advertise, because we we can't. Do advertising yet in uh in Ohio. So we would love the opportunity to be able to advertise a little bit more. And I think those rules are coming along and we should be able to have a little bit more freedom to be doing some of those things. But the market itself has been good. Um, you know, we love a limited license cap state. We don't feel that you know there should be a proliferation of licenses in any state. Um there should be equal opportunity or sufficient opportunity, I think, in every state for everyone to kind of have a shot at the Apple. But Ohio did it the right way, unlike you know, Mass kind of overlicensed. Um so Ohio is is definitely proving to be beneficial for us as an organization. We we look forward to opening another store there this year, um, increasing our canopy size either through increasing our footprint where we are or you know, leasing out space from someone else. But yeah, we're very optimistic um about what Ohio can do. But I'm I get nervous as you know some of the canopies are getting bigger and bigger and bigger. Um and we just don't feel that, you know, the larger you are, the better you are. One, and two, um, we also have seen all the other states that, you know, just because you have 100,000, 200,000 worth score of a canopy doesn't mean anything. You still gotta sell all of that product. Um and usually when that happens, you start getting overlap of genetics, and then you start the the race to the bottom of discounting because people are trying to move inventory without it without it aging out. So some concerns that I'm seeing, some of the some of the writing on the wall. But in terms of a business working in Ohio and business in Ohio, it's been good for us. We're excited about it. Um for all the reasons we've kind of talked about to this point. I mean, the the the tapestry there is so rich. Um we're we're really excited to be a part of it. Good word. God, good word.

SPEAKER_00 23:34

Pennsylvania, is it are they gonna legalize the Pennsylvania? Why is it so hard to get cannabis done in Pennsylvania? Like, I don't understand. Like they've literally lost however many much tax revenue to bordering states um over the last three three years and continue to uh have a hip ban, so we're losing from there as well.

SPEAKER_01 23:52

There's no hip ban in Pennsylvania either. So between the the neighboring states to recreational and the hip ban, Pennsylvania's under siege. Um I think three quarters in a row, the active patient count has gone down. Um we've seen across the board, you know, to talk to colleagues in the industry in Pennsylvania specifically, um sales year over year continue to decline and discounting continues to become rampant. Um so we we have a systematic issue or concern here in Pennsylvania right now as it relates to the sustainability of the business long term. Um so we would love for you know Congress to local state legislators to act, but like any other legislative body, they're bifurcated. You have Democrats control the House, uh Republicans control the Senate, Democratic governor. So nobody wants to let the other person win. I think they all agree that this is something that would be good for the state, whether you're talking about from a medical standpoint or you're talking about from a revenue standpoint, as it makes a tax dollars. Um so there really is no good logical answer around why cannabis in in Pennsylvania is uh is not recreational yet, besides the fact that uh the U.S. Congress can't act right, neither can our local municipalities when it comes to writing laws and policies, their agendas and their own egos sometimes get in the way of what's right for the constituents, the constituents um in the states that they kind of represent. So it's the same thing here in Pennsylvania. Um but we do believe the budget gap that we continue to have, we continue to have a budget deficit in Pennsylvania. Um we continue to see that there is an a solution, a potential solution. We can't fill the whole gap, um, although they may try to make us fill that whole gap, but we can help offset some of this deficit by turning on recreational cannabis, taxing that red revenue, and creating more revenue for the state in turn.

SPEAKER_00 25:29

Is the medical tax structure in in Pennsylvania, is it is it is the state making money off it? You know, because like you know, look at Kentucky where it's just straight sales tax and it's medical, there's not even an excise tax taken from it. Um are taxes like there's we have both.

SPEAKER_01 25:46

We have excise taxes uh from the growth is the grow level whenever we transfer a product out, and then we have sales tax on the uh on the transaction, on the sale itself. So yeah, I mean the revenue from it is is creating quite a bit. I don't know the number uh right in front of me, but you know, it's it's it's it's quite a lot um that we're throwing into the coffers every year to kind of offset some of the things that may not be coming from you know raising taxes on people or raising property tax or things of that nature. And we've been a a good taxpayer and uh participant in the in the business in Pennsylvania.

SPEAKER_00 26:17

And there's but there's another eight figures minimally of revenue annually sitting there if they were to go to adult use. So uh eight figures, yeah. So you've zigged when others have zagged. You closed your retail on 420. The biggest commercial holiday this industry has, the only one, maybe Green Wednesday now, is or or now it's snow days in the northeast, right? But but 420, like you're like, nope, we're not participating in this. We don't want we're gonna give them this back to our staff to enjoy it. Um and but you gave your customers to uh other retailers, right? Or or there is the 420 thing a myth?

SPEAKER_01 26:58

I I think it's it's well what is 420? I think that's that needs to be with where we start is is 420 a retail holiday? Is it a is it a retail sales frenzy? Because if you know I was one of the PE guys who just came into cannabis because you know I liked edibles or something a few years ago, I'd maybe think it was. But I luckily bought cannabis before the uh the traditional regulated market um for a lot of years on 420. Um and there was never a deal or a discount with the guy who I met in that public parking lot um in a ziploc bag when 420 came around. What he did have was good genetics and um told me to enjoy my day. And then what I went to go do that day was hang out with friends and family and you know, watch the waves come against the the shoreline or things of that nature. I wasn't trying to be in a retail frenzy. So we wanted to kind of recreate that legacy feeling for our staff, first and foremost, because we wanted them to really reconnect to what they do. Uh, if you sold tobacco, if you sold alcohol, we would do tobacco and alcohol generated things. And we believe 420 culturally is something that our staff, if you're working in the industry, you should be able to celebrate and enjoy. Why have you in a high stress and intense environment where we're giving the store away at deep deep discount and then creating a value proposition with the guests that is incorrect and inaccurate? Cannabis shouldn't be cheaper every year. Um, you just like your alcohol and your tobacco, your eggs, your belt, everything else goes up, but cannabis continues to go down. And we don't do enough as an industry to put our foot in the stand and say, guys, this isn't something that we should value at the cheapest, but value with quality, value with consistency. I mean, that should dictate the price point, not the fact that you have a you know oversized canopy and shitty weed that you grow.

SPEAKER_00 28:40

Right. Right. You you you're that's hey, you that you have a bunch of inventory you're trying you're trying to move on that day. That's all it is. They're discounting that you're gonna lose money on anyway.

SPEAKER_01 28:50

And then realistically, if I'm gonna celebrate 420, am I doing, do I want to really, I mean, how many people do we really lose? You really start thinking about it, is it's a Monday. And most of the people who want to wake and bake, they probably came to us. We were open on the 19th, we're open on the 21st. Um, so you know, if whatever you bought the 18th, 19th, 17th coming up to prepare for your 420, because just like I knew, all the customers knew 420 was coming, they could they had a chance to prepare. They had a chance to come with us, celebrate with us, and then you know, on 420, we were out in the communities doing softball games and community service activations and things of that nature to kind of be part of this community that we feel that we're helping create.

SPEAKER_00 29:26

Such a powerful message to your uh to your employees too. I really uh I think you know it's a wonder that you average tenures three and a half years uh you're doing things like that. Why are the reasons they work in this industry? Yeah, to feel like they're helping people to do something cool, to be able to promote quality and uh to appreciate and respect you know the plants and and giving them that freedom. But uh I love it. What's next for Ethos? You mentioned you opened another store in Ohio, that's great.

SPEAKER_01 29:56

Appreciate it. Another store in Ohio, we're looking for acquisition opportunities in the states that we're in. Obviously, anything that's bordering us, you know, we're looking to try to get into whether Kentucky, Virginia, New York, New Jersey, if the opportunity presents itself and is advantageous to our bottom line or accredited to our bottom line, we we want to kind of participate in that. Um, but we also understand that there is some strength and being a regional powerhouse, and then that's kind of more of our focus instead of spreading out across the country with the infrastructure that may require. But we also understand that there is a strength to running a business that is right size versus trying to run it in a business that's very unprofitable, although it's big. And we expect that those businesses that are not profitable because they are big, they will have distress assets sooner than later. Um, they can't keep playing that I won't pay taxes, I won't pay interest game. Um, and we hope to, you know, acquire or grow through some more acquisitions through some of these distress operators like the Pharmacans and others that we've kind of seen over the last you know 18 months.

SPEAKER_00 30:57

What are like the top three reasons why MA is doesn't work in this industry? Is it people thinking that they're gonna get lots of money for paper? Is it you know um you know, folks that have debt covenants that they have to repay on some of these assets that you know they they can't get someone to pay them for the asset, what you know it takes to get out of it.

SPEAKER_01 31:20

Like what is what I think an an irrational evaluation of what you think your business is, I think is probably the top one that we're seeing in the industry. Um, what further exacerbates that is you know you'll have a military capital or vario group come in and pay an absorbent price, which then kind of resets um what the minimum is or what it should be for these businesses. If they were in a regular industry, they wouldn't be evaluated at five, six times EBITDA. It's probably one or two times EBITDA based on the cash flow and their profitability. Um, I think the debt covenants is is uh one we would like to see more people take advantage of in terms of uh we would like to see more deals that are run through debt because of debt, because debt kind of takes their ego out of it, and they just want payments on the dollar for what they can get back on their initial investment. And I think the last one is you know the lack of true assets um that are actually available left in cannabis. I think a lot of cannabis or operators have done lease backs, um, so they don't actually own anything that their property is on. Um, a lot of them have to have a lot of UTPs, you know, unrecognized tax position, unrecognized um tax positions. Um and I think that creates more consternation um in an MA transaction because you know you have no asset to loan against, and then you have this liability on your balance sheet that you're not sure how to evaluate it. Um and then you have a declining revenue base um in every state. So, you know, am I paying you on today's sales or am I paying you on next year's sales that could drop by five to seven percent? And that usually is those sticking points that people are kind of caught up on in an MA. Um but as more people run out of cash and and you know they can't actually operate their businesses, I think that will change, that tune will change over the next 12 months. Although, you know, we got rescheduled. If you pay real close attention, most of the larger MSOs and companies, they already weren't paying taxes, so this doesn't help them at all. You know, what it may do is open up the capital markets or for some uplisting to happen on Nasdaq and and the stock exchanges, but uh that's that's the best model isn't working.

SPEAKER_00 33:17

That's your play. Like that's your business. That's your play. That that's your to get to a more liquid exchange. It can't be manipulated by a very small amount of you know, by by no no volume, right?

SPEAKER_01 33:27

And uh um But you still gotta run a business though, and I think that's gonna be the thing that's gonna hurt them is operationally, and I'm not calling any public MSO in particular, but in in general, most MSO organizations aren't run very well operating in a way that I think that traditional institutional investors would like when they start looking under the curtain of how the business is actually operating and running.

SPEAKER_00 33:52

You know, I think that it's a mixed bag, you know, is is my observation. There there's some that, you know, are are being, you know, gobbled up. Um and there's some that are, you know, in the middle and you're wondering what's going on, and then there's some that are like actually doing things like generating cash.

unknown 34:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:10

Like a GTI.

SPEAKER_01 34:11

Big fans of GTI and how they run their business and what they do over there. Big fans of GTI.

SPEAKER_00 34:16

Yeah. What what do you uh well you have no turnover, so what do you look for when you hire? Are there certain parts of the business that you're or certain places, locations that you're trying to hire for right now?

SPEAKER_01 34:29

Right now there's nothing like what I would call like a huge position. I mean, there's some I wouldn't call any position small. There are some um auxiliary positions that we want to think about adding this year to kind of help support um some of the team to make sure the bandwidth is where it needs to be. But you know, when we're looking for the right person, um, you know, I always tell people that, you know, you bring your representative on your interview and then you show up on your first day. Um so even though you can have a good interview process and it sounded great, whoever you hire, we really try to evaluate them in those first 30 days, like to make sure that they understand our culture, they want to play in our sandbox, they have the attitude that we are expecting, and the uh the inquisitiveness to want to learn more about cannabis and and and the cannabis culture. Um and we'll teach you the skills, we'll teach you all the things you need to do to kind of operate. But if you can't have those first two intangibles, we believe, you can't be a product associate, you can't be an executive while working here at Ethos. Uh you don't necessarily have to have an exorbitant amount of cannabis experience or cannabis use. Um, but you can't come in here not understanding this plan either. Um that is very specific in particular for us is if you don't like cannabis, this is not the place for you. If you're not gonna be passionate about what we are doing here, this is also not gonna be the place for you. So if you just want to come here and just you know get a job, this is not the company for you.

SPEAKER_00 35:48

You're not gonna you're not gonna you're not gonna last and you're not gonna fit in. Last question is it the same hiring for proximity workers in cannabis versus hospitality or traditional retail, any difference in terms of what you look for in cannabis versus you know what you learned to to look for when you're hiring all these you know initial staffs to open up all these uh restaurants and facilities?

SPEAKER_01 36:14

I would say food and beverage people are probably the perfect people um for this industry. You know, the servers and the bartenders of that industry, I love having them trans trans transfer over um and bring that skill set with them to what we do because they have that personalization, those touch points, um and all the things you kind of look for in a product associate. So we love food and beverage folk. Um retail people as well, we we we enjoy them as well, but they're not as uh um as what you have to be in a restaurant, but they're just as good. So we like those kind of individuals kind of coming into the business. But yeah, I think the food and beverage employees, funny enough, they're either uh my employees again, um, or they're our best customers. Um so you know, on on either side of the counter, um, I find my old world always coming back in.

SPEAKER_00 36:59

Yeah, funny how that works. Uh Jabron, thank you. I I enjoyed myself uh in this conversation. Thank you for sharing your story and and what your perspective on on the industry as a whole, and and uh anyone that's watches this is gonna really enjoy themselves too. So have a great rest.

SPEAKER_01 37:17

Thanks for giving me the time and the platform, man. Let's talk soon, and I'll see you in a few weeks up at Shottown, man. Be good, brother.