What If Success Means Returning To Yourself - What Finally Clicked for Jen VanEe

We sit down with Jen VanEe to talk about big picture marketing, mentorship, and the kind of confidence that comes from knowing what you stand for. Jen shares how ADHD, entrepreneurship, and a breast cancer journey reshape her boundaries and redefine what success really means. 
• building marketing strategy from identity and values instead of tactics 
• standing out through differentiation that matches a customer value system 
• navigating ADHD masking and finding work that fits how your brain works 
• learning through mentors by working across in house and agency worlds 
• taking the leap from paycheck to entrepreneurship with fear and confidence 
• letting a cancer diagnosis change how we show up and what we tolerate 
• setting boundaries to protect your peace and stop carrying others’ comfort 
• using writing and community to reduce isolation through One Tough Titty 
• facing the hardest part of cancer as life after treatment 
• trading the illusion of control for real agency in attitude and response 
• rejecting hustle culture and titles in favor of alignment and legacy 
• trusting the quiet click and the idea of returning to yourself

Transcript

Welcome And What Finally Clicks Means

Speaker 0:00

Welcome to What Finally Clicked, the podcast where we have real conversations with women who lead, mentor, and don't hold back. Each episode is a chance to slow down, reflect, and talk honestly about the moments that shape us, the lessons, the challenges, and the breakthroughs that change how we show up in our lives and work.

Jen VanEe And Big Picture Marketing

Speaker 0:20

I'm joined here with Jen. Jen, introduce yourself and talk to me about the work that you do.

Speaker 2 0:26

I am Jen VanEe. So my day today, I function as a fractional CMO and a brand strategist. Really, the focus of my work is more on looking at big picture. And while marketing tactics are a big piece of an overall marketing strategy, I like to focus more on the big picture and trying to help people understand who are you? What do you stand for? How do you lean into your operations to find your low lift, high margin areas to really leverage that into your overall communication strategy so that not only are you picking up better business from it, but you're resonating with your customers better.

Speaker 1:05

And Jen, you're one of the strongest women that I know. So please tell me just what led you to this career path in marketing.

ADHD Masking And Finding The Right Fit

Speaker 2 1:15

So a fluke, kind of. It was a failure in a lot of other areas before I kind of found my right place. No pun intended, right touch, right place. But I floundered in college a little bit. So I this year I've really channeled trying to understand myself better and my brain and how it works. And I've struggled with ADHD my whole life. But as most women do, I early was a high performer. I was the masker, is you don't want people to see that you're struggling. And so you perform. And as soon as I left a traditional high school structure and got into college where I was left to my own devices, I struggled. It became shifting and skipping the classes that were hard for my brain to function with and then going toward the things I really loved. But in college, you need to perform overall. It doesn't matter if you're really good in one area and really poor in another. And so I switched majors three or four times before I finally landed in communications. So marketing was my degree prior. But the way that the curriculum is structured for marketing, it's very logistics-based and it's very revenue-driven than being about the person. And for me, I found that I got more drawn into it because I've just always had a fundamental curiosity about people. Like what makes them tick? What motivates them? Like, why do people do the things they do? And I found that in communications, and it didn't really exist in marketing as much, at least from a curriculum standpoint, where I find that I'm good at what I do because I am curious about people. I like to talk through ideas. I like to say, what could we do instead of we've always done it this way, or this is the traditional way most people do it. I think those are good references to have. It's good to know what other people are doing, but for me, I like to know what other people are doing so that we can do it different because I think that's what stands out. Like we are just inundated with information and videos and ads and all of these things all the time. It's how do you stand out from the clutter? And it has to be a differentiator that resonates with someone's value system instead of just being something cool to look at.

Speaker 3:49

And one of the things I loved was when I met you, I reached out to you for coffee and I said, you know, I'd love to just learn more. And you were such an incredible mentor to just say, you know, this is the path and giving advice. And can you talk to me about the mentors that have been in your life and who's kind of encouraged you along the

Mentors And Learning Both Sides

Speaker 4:08

way? Oh, that's a good question.

Speaker 2 4:10

Honestly, I've had a lot of mentors that I've met just in my professional career, where they were leaders in agencies in town and things like that, where I just kind of gleaned on of, hey, I'm working with you. A lot of times I was actually hiring them. So before I started my own consultancy, I was always running in-house marketing departments. And anyone that is in that position or field knows that you often wear many hats. And one marketer cannot possibly do all of the things. And so I would often have to pull in outside talent. And so I was working with a lot of the agencies and knew a lot of people at those agencies. And so they went from being clients to mentors to me of okay, I want to go along this path. I want to learn more about what's happening in your world versus me bringing you into mine. And in doing that, I actually think that it gave me the diverse education of understanding, understanding both sides of the coin, where I knew operationally how things had to go in-house as an in-house marketer, but then moving into roles where then I was leading agencies. And so understanding both of those are really what helped me shape what I do now because I'm doing both.

The Scary Leap Into Entrepreneurship

Speaker 5:43

Oh, 100%. 100%.

Speaker 2 5:46

You know, it was it's a mixture of fear and confidence at the same time. You know, for me, one of the biggest struggles was leaving that traditional environment, leaving a paycheck, being a significant earner of our household. Making that leap was very difficult, especially with young kids at home. I was always wired to be an entrepreneur, like 100%. It is just kind of in my blood.

unknown 6:13

Yeah.

Speaker 2 6:14

And I was always scared to take that leap. And it's the best thing that I ever did, but it was one of the scariest things that I've ever done. And yeah, I jumped into it and it was very much on the inside, I'm freaking out, but on the outside, I look confident. Like it felt brave, it felt confident, but on the inside, I was like, what if this does not work? So I think that it was kind of a blend of the two of those things.

Speaker 6:44

And how did you get through that to the point where then you felt confident, like this is where I meant to be when you look back?

Speaker 2 6:53

Oh, I mean, some days I want to say I'm I'm not confident some days now. I don't know that there was a day where I was like, yep, I made it, I did it. Because I growth isn't linear, you know? And so the way that I've looked at how I run my business, what I'm doing has changed from what I thought I was going to do when I launched and what I do now. And it's really geared in how I work with my clients and the feedback that I get from my clients and what I've seen work with clients, where I can take that knowledge and apply it to other industries and apply it to other businesses. And so it gives me a really good depth and breadth of learning. But I don't think that I ever am like, yep, I did it. I did the thing, it's over. I'm someone that thrives on challenges. I like doing new things, I like doing hard things, I like having hard conversations, I enjoy those type of activities. And so, yeah, I I don't ever really want to hang my hat on like, hey, I've done it.

Cancer Changed How I Show Up

Speaker 8:06

And in a world that's constantly changing, how do you adapt?

Speaker 2 8:14

I would say I just do me. In all honesty, so last year, two years ago now, I was diagnosed with breast cancer, and it really, really shifted the way I show up in the world because I might not be in it anymore. But it changed the way that I show up, and it changed the way I care about how I show up. West Michigan specifically, we all talk about West Michigan nice. We talk about the way that that people candor with one another. And a lot of times that means avoiding the hard conversations, it means not standing on our value systems because we'll bend to to work with someone that we need to work with. And I don't do that anymore. And I'm trying really, really hard to not care what people think. I'm human, so I do still care, but I don't want to. And so I just think a lot of us end up getting our validity or feeling our worth based on how someone else views us.

Speaker 9:28

And I think that's silly. And I I struggle with that myself. And I think, especially in a social media world, it's easy to start having doubt within yourself and uh and to be looking at what other people are doing. So, so where does that strength come from? And I said you're one of the strongest people I know. So, where is that? Where do you where do you get inspired by that strength?

Speaker 2 9:54

In not caring. And it's really, really hard because there is a lot of pressure to fit in a box. To me, part of it is going through a type of a transformation where you don't be who the world told you you need to be. You go back to your core and say, Who am I? What is important to me? What is my value system? And so I think the world has a tendency to shift us and and take our value system and take the person that we know we are on the inside. And then we mold ourselves to how we feel like we need to show up in the world. And that's not to say that there aren't times where you have to just kind of edit yourself that's appropriate. But I think when it comes to the core of your being, I've tolerated behavior and conversations, and people have done things that I've given a pass and moved on. And now I reflect on a lot of that and ask myself why.

Boundaries And Protect Your Peace

Speaker 11:09

And that's a great lead into boundaries, right? And I feel like that's where really setting those boundaries, whether that be with your coworkers or your bosses, are really important. So what are some of those ways that you can start to think about those boundaries and setting those boundaries within the space around you?

Speaker 2 11:30

Boundaries are huge. So for me, my my mantra of 2026 is protect your peace. And it's so hard to not let things going on in life, other people, things that people have done disrupt you. I am a chronic overthinker. I live in my head all the time. And I will often sit and I just replace scenarios. I should have said this. What if they didn't take that right? All of these things we project ourselves onto other people's people's behavior. And for me, other people's happiness is not my responsibility. And somehow I think that gets lost a lot, where we're living to keep the other people around us comfortable instead of taking care of ourselves. And so that has been really kind of where I've pushed to be able to put those boundaries in place. If something in my life that I can control and I can take action on can protect my peace, I need to do that.

One Tough Titty And Being Seen

Speaker 12:40

And you went through something incredibly difficult. And I had, I was fortunate to read some of your blog posts, One Tough Titty, which really was a lot of inspiring content and your journey that you were so public and open about. What was that like for you? And and just what was it like to have the support, and also what was it like to just be in that moment? And how are you doing now?

Speaker 2 13:07

Good. I'm cancer free right now. Okay, congratulations. Oh, thank you. That what started as a blog and is now an established 501c3 was everything to me. I, with a high level of certainty, can say that my treatment was easier because I chose to do that. It started really for me. It was just, I'm a writer and I enjoy writing. And I also am someone that it isolates. I don't like to place my burden on other people. I don't want to trouble someone else with my troubles. Everyone has enough on their plate. Like they don't need my doom and gloom. And so for me, it was a way for me to get it out of my head and talk about everything that was going on. The other reason that I did it is because when I was diagnosed, my daughter was five. And so her living through that with me was very different as a five and six-year-old than it will be when she's a teenager. And so a lot of it was also chronicling all of that so that when she's older and can process that more realistically of what was actually going on, that she has that to understand and kind of reframe for her that part of her life. But in doing it, it has continued to be such a massive support system. Cancer is a very, very lonely journey. And when you first are diagnosed, there's an overwhelming just pour out of support. But cancer lasts longer than people's attention. And so and I knew that when I started that journey, that was gonna happen. I knew that in six months people's lives moved on and they had other things going on, and that I was going to be forgotten. Obviously, I wasn't forgotten, but that me having cancer wasn't gonna be the thing anymore. And unfortunately, when you get that deep into it is the hardest part. I just sorry if I get emotional. I just had a young woman, she's 30 years old, that was diagnosed with breast cancer, and we connected right at the beginning of our journey. She lives on the east side of the state, she doesn't have any family there, she doesn't have a big support system. And, you know, of course, I told her, please reach out to me anytime. You know, she is similar to me. She didn't want to be a burden, she didn't want to be a bother and all of that. And she texted me last week sharing how bad she's struggling and that she can't look in the mirror anymore and she doesn't recognize herself. And I can relate so heavily with her journey. And I talked to her on the phone and you know, I I think pulled her up a little bit to help her see there is light at the end of the tunnel. Like it sucks really bad where she's at right now. But it's it's sad that when you're in that part of the journey is usually when it's the most quiet. But yeah, so I guess I pull strength from that, but I still pull strength in being able to be that support system for other people. I like to think that I had to go through this so that I could be that support system for other people. They always say God doesn't give you more than you can handle. And you know, he he picks his strongest soldiers for his toughest battles. And so I like to think that I there was a reason that I went through what I did.

Speaker 17:38

Just reflecting. I can't even imagine. I can't even imagine. I can't imagine what that must be like having a young daughter. I myself have a young daughter to get that diagnosis, what that must feel like, and then to go through it, and then to be able to be there and show up for other people after. Was there ever a moment where you just felt fear and afraid? And and what were the little moments that got you through?

Life After Treatment And Betrayal

Speaker 2 18:17

So the fear was heavy right up front. Once I had a chance to really process it, it was kind of a like, okay, like let's do this. But one of the things that people don't talk about a lot is that you know, cancer treatment's hard. Going through it is really hard, but living life after is harder. Transitioning back into a normal life after you've finished treatment is really difficult. While you're in the throes of it, you're kind of in fight mode. You know, you have constant appointments, you're constantly going and seeing doctors, you're under a microscope. Like it's just kind of you go through what you have to go through. But when the appointments stop, it leaves space for your brain to start to process everything. I was having a conversation with my husband the other day, and I was trying to explain it because it's very difficult to explain it to someone that's not lived it. And I was like, it is it's like being told to go back out and live your life, except this time you're trying to learn how to live life in a body that just tried to kill you. And so it's something that I've heard repeatedly from other women and men for that matter, not breast cancer, but anyone going through cancer, that especially for those that treated their body pretty well. Like I've always been relatively healthy, I eat well, and so systematically, there's no reason that I should have had cancer. But when you go through that knowing that you've treated your body well, it feels like a betrayal. Like your body betrayed you.

Speaker 20:23

And how do you deal with that feeling? That feeling of betrayal and anger, and what were some of the ways that you coped?

Control Is An Illusion Agency Is Not

Speaker 2 20:32

Set it aside. There's no one to be angry at. And the anger doesn't help. It hurts. You know, your attitude with cancer, with work, with everything. I am 100% of, you know, you get to control what you bring to a situation. You get to control what energy you bring when you walk into a room. You can't control how other people act. You can't control whether or not you get cancer. You can't control so many things. And so, you know, one of the big lessons that I've learned through all of this is control is an illusion, but agency isn't. So I have to focus on what I can control, and I can control how I prepare myself for things. I can control my attitude and how I respond to conflict. I can control how I show up every day. I can't control all of the elements around it. And it's silly to try, it's exhausting, quite frankly. Before cancer, I would absolutely call myself a control freak. I still would call myself a control freak. But I have a better understanding of focusing on the things that I actually can control. And when that comes To people, because obviously you cannot control a person, you cannot control the way they act, the way they talk, the way they choose their words, things like that. But it goes back to what I said before. I can protect my peace. And if the way someone is talking or the things they're saying fly in the face of my value system and what's important to me, I can choose to have a service-level relationship with that person. You know, I don't need to be everybody's best friend. And I don't need everyone to agree or like me. And that's okay. It's such a hard thing and it shouldn't be. I don't know why we're wired to want people to like us. But it's the same thing I tell my clients in marketing. If you try to market to everyone, you're marketing to no one. Because a large message just gets diluted and it doesn't resonate with anybody. But when you really isolate and say, okay, these are the people I'm talking to, you can tailor a message and lean into a value system of that core audience. And so why don't we do that in our lives too? You know, not everyone is going to be our people. And I think everybody struggles with this. Oh, I a hundred percent agree.

Speaker 23:18

And so, yeah, I would love to see a world where we're able to set those boundaries early and and hold on to our value system and be our authentic selves, which we hear a lot in leadership, right? Be be authentically you. And I think that goes back to, well, like you said, what is your values? What who are you at the end of the day, and really reflecting on what you want your legacy to be? What was the moment that finally clicked for you in your personal life or in your professional life where you realized this is who I am and this is how I'm gonna overcome.

Values Over Titles And Hustle Culture

Speaker 2 24:05

I don't know that it was a specific moment. Because I don't even know that I'm fully there yet. I don't know that there is a specific, like, boom, it all clicked. But I look back at the past, I look what was important to me when I was early in my career as what I like to refer to as an elder millennial. You know, I started my professional career in the late 2000s. And so we were in one of the worst economic downturns that we've seen. It was hustle culture. Everything was hustle culture. And it was, you know, it was a world where if the boss asks you for beers after work, you go. The person that gets the promotions is the one that shows up first and stays the latest. It was the expending all of your energy on work to get further. And, you know, for me, looking at okay, what was success for me, you know, as a 20-something, it was money, it was titles, it was a hierarchy. And I look at all of that now and I'm like, what was I thinking? And I think it's just completely shifted away from that. Clearly, now I my title could matter, you know, and a hierarchy doesn't matter. And so it's just things shifted so much. And I I lean in so much more to a value system and being somewhere that aligns with my value system than money or a title, and it's something that you know, it as I progressed in my career, I would have people on my teams that I saw the same things in. And it's funny because there's part of you that wants to save them, you know, of like this isn't important. Like, put it aside. I think back to a scenario where I had a team member that this has been in corporate. And so, you know, incorporate a title change. If they change it at the corporate level, it has to change all the way across the enterprise. It doesn't mean the job you're doing is changing, but the title of the job is changing. And quite frankly, she was a really important part of my team. And but her role was being eliminated. And so we I had to shift her into this other role to even keep her in the organization. And she couldn't get past the optics of it looking like a downgrade from where she was at. And I was like, no one even needs to know that your title changed. Like you're gonna be doing the exact same job, you're still gonna be working for me. Like, we're nothing else is gonna change. And in the title was the hang up. And I was just, it was so hard for me because at that point in my career, I had gotten past the title part. I didn't need it. It wasn't about building a resume because I knew I could get a job on merit, like I have the experience, I know what I'm talking about. I don't need these step stepping stones on a resume to prove that I know what I'm talking about. You know, I had someone I ran into actually. So when I prior to starting my agency, I was the president of another agency in town. And we had won some significant awards, one of them being the Michigan Celebrate Small Business, and we were one of the 50 companies to watch. So the organization that puts that on, I just happened to bump into the president of that organization after the event. And he saw our team just all getting along and having a great time. And he asked, you know, like from a culture standpoint of you know, how we were so cohesive and how we grew and did all of these things in such a short period of time. And, you know, through the conversation, we just talked through mechanics, just kind of philosophy of how I feel about how you bring a team together. And he asked me, he goes, I don't mean to be rude, but how old are you? Oh no, and and I was just like, okay, here we go. But he and that's very common in the corporate world, very common. And well, and I think especially for women, it's more common. But his follow-up was, you just the things you're saying seem too experienced for someone that looks your age. And I mean, part of me, I was like, okay, compliments. Okay, like I appreciate that I I look good for my age, but that's a double-edged sword. Exactly. I was like, why can I not have a good perspective and philosophy on how you get the best out of your teams without being 60 years old?

Speaker 29:42

Yeah. And that's a lot of probably the working space that women deal with is 100%. All of those comments and, you know, the fact that it's sometimes even hard to get the response to begin with. Right. Or get the time. Right. Because they just don't see us as the same thing. I know.

Speaker 2 30:03

I think I have it somewhere in my notes that I haven't even looked at. But I I have mention in there about specifically women and and giving more because I don't remember what it was one of the questions that was in our prep notes that made me think one of the lessons kind of for myself is like rest is not a reward. Like you don't earn rest. Like if you need it, you take it. And unfortunately, especially women, we have a tendency to show up and and do 150% because we feel like that's what we have to do to show that we deserve a seat at the table. And we don't. Yeah. We don't have to do that. But many of us don't actually take

The Quiet Click And Final Advice

Speaker 2 30:52

a break and give ourselves the rest that we need to recharge until we're empty.

Speaker 30:58

And lastly, I want to leave listeners with what is one piece of advice you would give someone listening today who's trying to break into their career. Okay.

Speaker 2 31:12

I wrote this down because and I don't want to miss this one. Because your your question was really the you know, the click. So, you know, I I want to just read what I wrote down because it's exactly how I feel, and it says it a lot more eloquently than I can, because I ramble. Is that your click moment might not be dramatic, it might be quiet. And to pay attention to the thing that keeps tapping you on the shoulder. Like I feel like whatever that thing is, what's at our core, and the thing that really makes it all make sense is the thing that keeps nagging us. And we keep pushing it aside, saying, Stop it, it's fine, don't worry about it. That is the click, in my opinion. And then as far as like defining success is not growth at all costs, not the hustle, and then having agency to protect your peace. And then my my finally clicked is sometimes the click isn't about becoming someone new, it's about returning to who you were before the world told you who to be.

Speaker 32:38

Wow. Just so inspiring. I can see just hearing your story where the strength comes from and just your lived real life experience in navigating the world. And I just appreciate you being here, Jen. Thank you.