If Not Me Then Who? - What Finally Clicked for Cathy George

Respect doesn’t come from being invited into the room. It comes when people recognize your value—and when you refuse to shrink yourself while waiting for that moment.

This week, I sit down with Coach Cathy George, head coach of the Grand Rapids Rise and a longtime leader in volleyball. Cathy shares what it’s been like to often be the only woman in the room and how women in sports are still fighting for more than just a seat at the table—they’re fighting for the support and resources needed to truly succeed.

We talk about the difference between checking a box and making a real investment in women’s programs, why hiring qualified women matters, and what it takes to build a championship culture.

Cathy also gives a behind-the-scenes look at life as a professional coach—from film study and recruiting to free agency calls and caring for players as people first. She shares why she sees failure as feedback, how she stays grounded in her purpose, and why comparison is one of the biggest traps we face.

We also dive into leadership, confidence, team chemistry, and the intangibles that separate good players—and good leaders—from great ones.

If you’re passionate about women’s leadership, sports, mentorship, or finding the courage to keep showing up when respect isn’t automatic, this conversation is for you.

🎙️ Subscribe to What Finally Clicked, leave a review, and share this episode with someone who needs the reminder that their value isn’t determined by who notices it first.

Transcript

Welcome And Meet Coach Kathy

Speaker 1 0:00

Welcome to what finally clicked the podcast, where we have real conversations with women who lead, mentor, and don't hold back. Each episode is a chance to slow down, reflect, and talk honestly about the moments that shape us, the lessons, the challenges, and the breakthroughs that change how we show up in our lives and work. And I'm joined here today with Coach Cathy George. Cathy, thank you so much for being here.

Speaker 3 0:24

Absolutely. Happy to be here.

Speaker 1 0:26

You're such a strong advocate for women and just an advocate for all in the community. And I just would love to just get to know more about Cathy and just where this drive comes from.

Breaking Barriers In Coaching

Speaker 3 0:39

Oh wow. Okay. So there's a lot of drive that's come. I I don't know if I was born that way or if it just kind of happened over time, but it's it's there's always been that drive to just push through barriers and and try to make dreams happen. And what does it mean to push through barriers to you? Oh my. Well, you know, I mean, I'm a little bit older than you. So, you know, I've seen such a tremendous change over the years in terms of the value of women and even women, you know, in their roles in business and in coaching and all those things. It's just really has changed. And you're seeing uh so many more women being put into higher level positions or working women and, you know, those who are supporting families and doing different things like that. So you are seeing some real growth there. But I've been through it all from when I was like the only female in the whole Big Ten coaching. I I've been having to break through barriers of being in athletics with mostly male counterparts. And, you know, it's been it's been interesting to watch the growth and to see some of women's sports kind of like getting on the horizon in the professional world, which which has not happened here in the United States uh up until recently. So pretty cool to see that growth, but yet still have a long way to go.

How Coaching Started In High School

Speaker 3 1:53

What made you want to become a coach? Well, I just love sport. I I loved playing. I mean, I I was passionate about it. I I just it just brought me such great joy. And I wanted to continue to be a part of it. When I was in eighth grade, I started, I had started playing volleyball already in the fourth grade and I was going on, but then I go into my freshman year in high school. Well, for some reason, they needed a coach over there, and I don't know why they're looking at me, but as I at freshman in uh high school, they asked me to come back and coach the sixth grade team over at my school. And so I did, and I enjoyed it so much, so thoroughly, sixth, seventh, and eighth grade. I took them three years in a row, a couple college scholarship level players, and they ended up going on to earn that. It was just, I don't know, I knew I it was what I wanted. And so I just continued to pursue that as time

Mentorship That Refuses To Shrink

Speaker 3 2:43

went on.

Speaker 1 2:43

And you're an advocate for a lot of women, and so what does it mean to mentor them and be a leader?

Speaker 3 2:50

Well, I think that the biggest thing that I want to get across to, you know, our players and beyond is that it's very easy to kind of shrink away and and to not continue to pursue or to drive hard or to go after your goals and your dreams. I think it's easier to fall into that, just you know, go in that corner and and mind your own business and do those things. I think that's an easy thing to do, but I want to have our players find their passion, whatever that is, and for them not to be afraid to go for it and to continue to pursue it, even if they do see roadblocks. And how do you go, how do you go keep going, right? Because this was interesting. I I'm sorry, I could get into so many different things as we're talking. But there was they did a personality study for all the women that were in the American Volleyball Coaches Association board of directors over the years. And all the women possessed the same personality qualities, and all of the men that were in it kind of had all sorts of different personalities. They were able to. And it dawned on me that the women that survived through that era, and again, I go back to I'm older, um, they were all the same personality, which is a D, a driver, kind of a little bit aggressive, all those kind of things. But the reason I believe that happens is because it was those women that had to push through all those barriers that survived, that didn't back away, that didn't give up and didn't change course. And so that's why all those women were into that little nutshell. And and we've had to break through and make. I mean, I mean, there's been a lot of changes over the years that we've had to pursue and push and go for. And it was all about finding the respect for what we do in in sport. That it's we try, we work just as hard as anybody in our male counterparts that are coaching different teams. It it's the players work just as hard. Uh we study as much film, we do all the same things, but how do we get that kind of respect for our sport and appreciation? A sport that I know people would love. Has it always been easy for you? No, no, it's been nothing but it's been that at all. But but it never dawned on me to to to give up on it, you know, like to just say, okay, you know, in the earlier years, obviously, as you get older, it gets a little different and you start shaping. And I did retire from Michigan State at uh years back before I started off here. But, you know, that was a culmination of a lot of uh things that were happening in our lives and stuff like that. But but it, you know, it's it's like I just didn't, I feel like if you're gonna do it, go do it. And I want to leave a mark here. When this opportunity showed itself up, and I had retired, my my mom was in the hospice, my brother had died, my um, you know, we were going through COVID, all that other stuff was going on, all these things. And I said, you know what? I can I can see myself one away because I want to give my best to my mother, you know, and I wanna I want to do this, and I have to coach at the best of my ability, and I don't have that right now. And so I wasn't gonna put on something that I couldn't ask from my players. I can't ask them for that and not do it myself. So I that's when I stepped away. Well, after she had passed, you know, the whole this whole thing with the Grand Rabbit's rise happened. And I was I was asked to be the coach, and I thought I was gonna be asked to be consultant or something. And I was like, you know what? I can do this. I I really yeah, I can get back into it. I love it. Of course I do. And I yeah, I want to see this happen for women who have played overseas over 350 female athletes who were playing overseas for nine months a year professionally, because we didn't have it here in the United States. And if there's anything I stand for, it's things like that. And I wanted to make this a possibility and I not only just even a possibility, but something that they could look forward to and be excited about and you know, form a career and like to to go for it and and be able to enjoy the thing that gives them so much love. And I did that. I loved it. I would have loved to have played. I would have given my eye teeth to do that. But but you know, I think this is this is awesome, and I wanted to see that and be a part of it.

Hiring Women Without Tokenism

Speaker 1 6:57

Do you think we need more female coaches?

Speaker 3 7:00

Well, thankfully, I was I was in the Big Ten for eight 17 years, and the Big Ten's one of the best conferences in the country. In fact, most will say it's the arguably the best. Most of our Olympians were coming from the Big Ten and that type of thing. And so I was at a conference meeting at the end of the year and didn't really honestly, I hadn't paid attention because I don't pay attention to this as much. But at the end of it, they go, Oh, let's take a picture. And um, and so we get all the people in the picture and they go, Cathy, stand in the middle. And it was at that point that I was like, Oh wow, I am the only female.

unknown 7:34

Yeah.

Speaker 3 7:35

And and these are, you know, these are great. Now I did know, like a little bit previous to that, there was another female that had been there. And and so I, you know, I was like, Yeah, you know, this is crazy. The ADs never knew that until they saw that picture. Wow, then these from the other schools. They were like, wait a second, we knew we had a male. We didn't know everybody else did too. So then now there's a concerted effort. Now, I am not a believer that women should get a job because they're women. I'm gonna say that. I think that hiring unqualified women pushes women back further. Sure. I think that we need to be qualified, women need to be bold, they need to work hard for what they get and and and go and then do it really well. And so I do believe that, but I also believe there's a lot of quality women that weren't being were not given the chances to be there. So now the Big Ten has a lot of female coaches, and we just went on and won the national championship with a female coach, and now there's like five or six of them that are females, and they're all doing well. And that the thing that's interesting is people would ask me, I I had been in the final four, I was one of the first females ever to coach in the final four back in the day. And every time somebody was getting there, they would they'd call me and ask me, Well, what is it? What's you know, do you think a women, a woman's finally gonna do it? What's the difference? Why can't women win? And I'm like, uh, you know, if I say truly what it is, I would say, because we haven't hired uh women into positions of universities that really are providing the resources to win a national championship. There's a difference, right? There's a difference. Do you check a box and say I hired a female? Or do you actually get behind it and say, I want to win, I want to win a national championship. I'm gonna fund it and support it the way it needs to in order to win have those goals. Are we are we providing that so that we can pursue the goals? And and I and I would, and I we went through that. There was a little exercise that we all went through to find out who do we think really has those resources. And there really wasn't many um when I was coaching. And that's a hardship. So how do you do that? You can make up a couple, you know, you can make up a couple positions, but you know, it's hard to do that when maybe, you know, you just don't have the same resources because recruiting is big.

Speaker 1 9:53

Yeah. And I feel like that's across the board. I often we feel under-supported. And what would

Earning A Seat At The Table

Speaker 1 10:00

you say? You know, how do you fight back when you feel like you're not being valued?

Speaker 3 10:05

Well, I, you know, I think a lot of times trying to figure out how to say this right. I think a lot of times women do dwell too much on the fact that they're not being supported. And I say just work really hard and do the job. And eventually people will notice. And then I said, after a while of doing all that, you're kind of like, wait, now what? Right? Are are we getting the support after that? And I think it is asking the right questions upon hiring, doing the things that you need to do that you know you have the support in order to get the job done that you want to get done. Uh, showing the capacity, though, to do that, like right, being preparing yourself to be the best you can to achieve those goals as well with the support and doing doing the things that uh make a difference. Be that person, right? And then deliver. And so there's a lot of sides to that. But I I think that uh it it we don't want to be token. I don't think, and I don't think they need to be. Women need to be. But there's did you ever read the book Lean In? No. Lean in Cheryl Sandberg wrote a book called Lean In. And I I would advise women to to read that. And it was talking about, you know, having a seat at the table. And she was she was with Facebook. She had started with Facebook and and and she was found out like she was in a big executive meeting. She's on the top floor of the executive floor, and and she asked somebody where the ladies' room is. And the guys looked around, hey, do you know where the ladies' room is? And they go, We've never had a female up here before. And there's a lot of thought that goes into that. I don't think I don't think that people notice that they don't have women a part of it. As they've gone up, they don't understand that. But it's not having a woman, it's respecting that women have valuable things to say and valuable things to add and valuable things that you know to be at that table. And so women though tend to shrink in those environments because they do feel that they're not being as respected or their thoughts aren't or their, you know, ideas aren't valued at the same rate. And but we can't keep shrinking.

Speaker 1 12:17

So how do you walk into a room? I mean, we're talking about, you know, approaching maybe our boss or our board. So how would you approach walking into a room full of men?

Speaker 3 12:27

Well, I think it's not just walking in there, but making sure that you're ready for that and that you're answering with quality, you know, answers and you're providing good insights. But I'd also work a little bit on getting to know those people and making sure that the dialogue is there so that you can start to gain credibility. But it is a very difficult task. It's not there yet. We're not there yet. We're not in those, we're not there yet. But it has grown immensely, I would say, over the last 20 years. Yeah. It really has. And then everybody's like, yeah, well, good. We checked that box. And I'm like, no, because the respect still isn't there. So I I wouldn't say we're there. Have we improved? Absolutely. Have we improved? Yes. But don't just be okay with just the improvement. Really uh value, you know, that and don't just check a box to hire a female, but support the female and give them the credit, you know, give them give them the voice that they they should have. Because women can add a lot to every room because there is a different perspective. And many times it's it's just thrown away a little bit like, oh, that's just a woman's point of view. But if you think about it, in all those rooms, we're 50% of the demographic. So maybe we should start paying attention to those words because they do bring a different, a different focus, a different point of view that maybe we could enhance our businesses with that perspective. And yeah.

Speaker 1 14:01

And I would echo sometimes, like you said, women have a different perspective, but we also care a lot. And I feel like when I think of when I walk into a room, it's because I'm usually advocating for someone else, or I'm advocating because I care for something. And so that's kind of how I approach leadership and my role. But it's interesting.

Speaker 3 14:22

Intelligence, you see how the room is, you're recognizing the different responses and how people are reacting and how people are, you know, are seeing the same thing.

Speaker 1 14:33

And sometimes I feel like it's all about wording. When I walk into a room, the first thing I do is thank you for being here, right? Thing, and sometimes you have to, you know, say I really acknowledge them first, and then before you go into your ass. So I think it's also the craft and how you approach leadership.

Speaker 3 14:51

I think that's in any business, right? And in male or female. I think that's that's the craft of it all. I think, you know, it's not being pushy. And yet, again, strong women are generally pushy. So it's like a little bit of that. But but I think that I think we're all grateful. We're so very thankful for what we have and what we're able to do. I think that's there's no doubt about that. But I think you're right, the perspective of the gratefulness might have gone away so much for other people that have just always been there. Absolutely. But don't just say I'm grateful and then you stop and say that's that's where it is. Okay, thanks for being here. I'm in here now. Right. I should be just grateful for that. Like, right? Like, let's get things done and let's let's move the needle.

Speaker 1 15:33

Right. And that's hard to do.

Life As Coach And GM

Speaker 1 15:35

And and can you talk to me about what's it like to be a coach?

Speaker 15:38

I mean, what do you what's what's a day in your life like or a week?

Speaker 3 15:43

It's kind of a I I I wouldn't say a 24-7 thing, but it's probably an 18 hour hour thing in a day. Just because you you just are constantly, when you're in season, you're constantly going uh with the season. So you're whether you're traveling or you're at home and you you watching film and you're making phone calls to free agency, and then you're you're dealing with this kid that was so just got off the phone with somebody that you know just got out of surgery, then you're then you're you know, you're watching the film for the games that you have because you have to get it in a scouting, you're just constantly doing something and they're all different things. And so I'm also the vice president here uh for the Grand Rapids Rise. So also the GM. And so I'm calling, I was on the phone with two agents right before I got here too, talking about some potential players, those kind of things. It's just a bunch of different things. There's a lot of balls in the air, and they all have mega significance to what we're doing. And it's, but I love that. Like I absolutely love that, right? And it's constantly juggling it all. And now my children aren't at home, so it's a little bit easier, but but it's, you know, I'll be up at one o'clock in the morning because I always I get tired early. So I'll fall asleep at like 10, and then I get up at like one, and then I watch film for like two and a half hours, and I fall back to sleep, and then I get up at six, and then I, you know, have a little alone time, a little bit of my time to kind of get set, and you know, just quiet time, and then I get ready for work and I'm getting there, and then we get it all over and go to practices and waits and scout reports and travel and all of that.

Speaker 17:17

That's a busy schedule.

Reframing Failure Into Feedback

Speaker 3 17:18

And when you think of everything that you do, what's your why you know it's to further this and to give women opportunities and to see them grow and you know, I you know what that's kind of weird. I love watching people that doubt themselves. And they, this is kind of interesting because I'll push them. And at first they're like not okay with that, right? Because I'm pushing them, but I'm trying to push them beyond their doubts, their their like worries about not performing and worries about the danger of it or the risk involved, or all those things. And we have so many females that do that. And the fear of failure is big about amongst women. And I do not believe there's such a thing as failure. And I believe that failure is in your mind, is the thing that once you like if you study your failure or what your perceived failure is, you can find your way out as long as you keep driving. If you stop and you you get down on yourself, you're focusing on all the wrong things. You're focusing about that. When if if something you did didn't work out right away, if you get your mind on, well, why didn't it work out that way? Okay, let me see. If I did this a little different, I do this, I do this, do this, okay. Let me study that a little bit more, see, I can come back and do it. But when we when we fill our heads with the fact that we're a failure, like, you know, you maybe have done something wrong for that time, but it doesn't mean you're a failure. Don't define yourself that way. It's it's the thing you need to do is kind of figure out why. And I think it's so much fun to find out the why and to keep going. And then once you get it, oh my gosh, it's so cool. Because when you break through, you have a breakthrough.

Speaker 1 19:07

And what advice would you give to those that are trying to find their why and they don't know?

Speaker 3 19:12

Well, I don't think the why is just an absolute thing. I don't think it's always the same thing. I think, you know, there's this, I know I get this charge out of those things. I but I can't say it's the only reason I do it. I mean, I love the sport of volleyball. I love seeing that moment that that they break through. I love, I love the, I love competition, I love there's so many whys, but it's not just one why that says, oh my gosh, it's I've got to have this deep why. But it's you are all unique. We all have gifts. You have gifts that are special to you, and you gravitate to them, but you don't know that. Like you probably, even if say it was a subject in school, probably gravitated to something that was more naturally, you're naturally inclined for because you have more successes in that area. And so then you kind of start building into that, but you don't know because there's a million careers with that. Yeah. So you then have to start figuring that out. And some fit you and some will not fit you. Doesn't mean you're a failure or not a failure. It doesn't mean you're supposed to be great at every single thing you do. It's about finding the right fit with your gifts and you maximizing those gifts so you continue to build into those gifts and you're finding that excitement from that gift. I I think a lot of times we try to be, especially working with collegiate athletes. I remember asking people, what do you want your major to be? Oh, I want to be a doctor. I want to be none of them do what they said they were gonna do.

Speaker 1 20:32

Yeah.

Speaker 3 20:33

They all find something different, but it sounded cool to everybody else that I was gonna be this or that. Yeah. Do you see? We're always looking to impress everybody else, but that has nothing to do with your why.

Speaker 1 20:46

One of my good friends said, where you start is never where you end up. And I feel like that's so true in life. Where you begin is never, you know, where you typically end. And and and I wonder for you, I mean, what is your goals? What do you have goals? I mean, you've accomplished so much already.

Speaker 3 21:05

Well, I I don't I I always am where I am. My feet are always where I am, and I'm in the moment. I don't, I don't, I think a lot of people, they're rarely in the moment, they're in the past moment that just happened that they're still reflecting on too much, and then they're too long, and I've got to do this thing or that thing to be happy. I think fulfilling the moment that you're in and trying to be the best at that should give you a lot of fulfillment. And like you should we listened to a speaker over at the Econ Club that was talking about what is happiness, and and actually work was a part of that. And it was when you feel involved in something and you feel the accomplishment, right, of little things that that brings you happiness. And some people think that being on a beach makes you happy. It it doesn't, it's a it's a moment in time, but the fulfillment of giving and supporting and doing something and being involved in something that's making a difference. Whether that's your work or that's something you're doing, like in a nonprofit or whatever that is, you're you're feeling that. You're feeling that you want to be a part of something. Everybody does. They can lie, but they do. They want to be a part of something. And it's it's finding again that thing that kind of makes you tick a little bit, that makes you kind of excited to do it the next day and solve that puzzle or or see something happen that is great for other people. Or and we all have, like I said, the unique guess that there's gonna be people that just want help care help people. And so they need to get involved in helping people. They need to find the right fit. There's other people that are just super like like with me, like super competitive, super this. I have to have something that's you know, I'm charging on all the time. But it's unique to each person. And I think that I'm rambling, I know I am, but I think people are always trying to be somebody else.

unknown 22:56

Yeah.

Speaker 3 22:57

And when you're comparing yourself to everybody else, you miss who you are. And young people are doing that leaps and bounds, and they're doing it through watching social media. And I want to be her, I want to be her, I want to be her. No, no, no. Find out what you are and gravitate towards what makes you happy, and you will find more fulfillment, which brings you more confidence, which brings you more everything. And we're just making a lot of U-turns to be involved in things that maybe aren't necessarily ours, but my best friends.

Speaker 1 23:31

So Was there a moment that finally clicked for you where you said, Oh, this is who I am. This is my moment.

Speaker 3 23:41

I had two older brothers. I think like this will explain a lot, probably. My dad was a collegiate athlete, and my I had two brothers, and they were always in the sports, and my dad was always following them around and you know, doing all that. And I was like, I'm gonna do it, right? Like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna play. And maybe that was for his attention at that time. But I found this sport that nobody was paying attention to called volleyball. And I ended up getting with some people and we started playing and you know, fourth grade, we were playing, and it brought me just great enjoyment. And I just knew that I loved it. I knew I wanted to be a part of it. I didn't know this was a career choice, but I did know this was awesome and it was mine. It wasn't everybody else's. And my parents really didn't come to games or anything like that. So I wasn't doing it for anybody else. I continued to do it because I found out that I loved it. And that's what I did. And so yeah, my brothers didn't let me play basketball on the court, like they barely throw the ball out. So I'd always have to try to steal it from them being the aggressive person that I am, and you know, just things like that. But I I, you know, I threw them though, I found my niche, which was something different than they were doing, but but it was, I just knew it was mine. And then I was, you know, there's a lot of a lot of players or a lot of athletes, because I've been recruiting for over 35 years for college scholarships and things like that. And they're all doing it for their parents, or they're doing it because their friends play it, or because of this. But when it gets down to it, they don't really love it. They get the college scholarship, it's worth 250, you know, $250,000. Okay, good. But it's gotta, you know, there's gotta be that thing inside you that says I'm on the right path. And I wonder did we pursue something for the wrong reasons? Could we have found that right path if we weren't trying to be something else? Maybe I was creating music, maybe I was, you know, an artist, maybe I was a who knows what? I'm athlete. I don't know. But but there's these things. And for me, I just kind of knew, but it was before all this. Right? It was before all the comparison. I didn't really compare myself to others because that was before this. We're just we're being forced into a world of comparison with all the visibility of everything. And getting back to the things that matter, getting your children back to the things that matter is really important because they will you will help them find themselves and and again making sure that you're getting down to the bare bones of it for them and and applauding them for their not how smart they are, how they how good of a volleyball player they are, or how pretty they are. Get to, wow, you're really a caring person. I loved how you helped that kid over there. Oh my gosh, you're working really hard on your assignment. It's really awesome. Things that they do, you want to appreciate that and make sure that they know that, you know, to they know that that's the thing because that's your character. That's what they choose to do, that's the person they are, and that will be with them forever if we develop it the right way. If they can spike a volleyball, that's you know, maybe that's gonna be something great, but it's the work that went into spiking the volleyball or the attention to detail to become a great volleyball spiker, you know, those kind of things.

Building Team Chemistry And Intangibles

Speaker 1 26:59

And from an outsider, I've been lucky enough to go to a few of the Rise games. And one of the things I loved is seeing the teamwork that goes into the sport. And and you talk about comparison, but these are girls who genuinely, whether they mess up or whether they score, they're supporting each other and they're rallying around each other regardless. And what are some things that you're telling them behind the scenes that make them so great?

Speaker 3 27:26

Well, I think there's there's a couple kinds of people. Some that pull people away from each other and some that pull them together. And I think that the greatest compliment for a player would be how do you make others play around you? Again, it's not a it's not a physical trait. It's something that you do because you're you. Are you investing in others? Are you making others feel uh kind of bad about themselves? Are you making it better or are you making it worse? And so, like we talk about that. And and you know, there's different chemistry that you have on a team, and sometimes people weren't helped to understand that when they were young. And and so they do pull away and maybe they're super talented, but the team doesn't play as well around them. So you have to kind of find a way to collaborate, to work together, to bring out the best in each other. And those players stand out. Those are the those are the ones that go from good to great, are the ones that really understand that quality. And I think that, you know, I think some are better than others at it, but but you've got to find the the things that make a difference, the intangibles.

Speaker 1 28:34

What do you think makes a great team?

Speaker 3 28:38

Well, first of all, in in this level, it's hard because you have to have the talent to be in the in the group, right? So you have to be talented enough. And so you're limiting those numbers, the the percentage of people that can play at this level by a lot. But then you have to find, in my mind, again, that the players that bring that special sauce in my mind. And it's it's the ability to take to you know take on those really important moments. Like, are you a clutch player? Can you do those things when it counts? Not everybody can do that. So we're limiting those numbers even more. Are you making others around you better or worse? Those intangibles. Do you see the game well? Do you are you a student of the game or are you just kind of showing up? What are the different things? But you build into a chemistry. And chemistry is in my mind, it's always been different. People always throw the word culture around, but I think chemistry is different. I think that's kind of like the special, you know, mix that you have that kind of brings out the best in each other. And you've got a little bit of and you've got a little bit of uh, and you've got you got, you know, you've got all the right pieces that kind of make that potion what it needs to be. And and so it's that you can see it when it starts to operate at that. And it's hard. We're bringing in players from every year, it's a new year. We're unlike teams that have three, four-year contracts where you know the same people are coming back. So we're all free agents, and then they're we're just reshuffling teams and you're getting to know them in December, and you're trying to be you, you're trying to have this chemistry in the beginning of January, and you're like, okay, that's tough. But it's it is as you get to know each other and you start to see the pieces, you can see how it comes together. And I love that too. I think every team has a different quality, and you have to find the way that they that they come together to make it work in all areas. So the physicality piece, the mental piece, the toughness piece, the the celebration piece, the you know, all of it. So yeah, sorry. I have such a long-winded answer.

Speaker 1 30:32

No, that's

Saying Yes To Grand Rapids Rise

Speaker 1 30:33

that's good. And what do you think is the moment for you where you said, okay, this is this is it. I'm I'm gonna join the rise.

Speaker 3 30:43

Um, it was it was actually, I like I said, I I met with the I I actually was they were announcing the team and I wasn't able to go because of something that I was doing. And so I called them and I said, sorry, I couldn't support the, you know, they were presenting the rise as a new team that they were gonna have here. And I said, sorry, you know, and so I said, Well, I'll be out that way. Maybe we can meet or whatever. And so I was thinking, hey, you know, I'll I'll try to give them some names of people, of things to do, of what to do and help them in this area, because I had been at Western Michigan and then Michigan State. So I'd been in the, you know, in this for a long time. I could get them with some people that could help develop their stuff. So anyway, so we started talking, and all of a sudden I realized I'm talking to me about coaching.

unknown 31:25

Hmm.

Speaker 3 31:26

You know, and I had been out for like two years, I guess, or maybe not even that long.

Speaker 2 31:30

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 3 31:30

It was, no, it was 10 months. Okay. It was 10 months. And my mother had passed, and and so I was kind of thinking, oh, I don't, I know I don't want to not do anything. And I was consulting with other collegiate teams and, you know, working with them. And but as they started to talk about it, I said, you know what? I do know so many people in the state, and if I can help make this a success, I'll I'll do that. But the the real kicker for me was when I thought about it, I was at complete peace. And I didn't have any angst, and I didn't have any and I was just like, if not me, who? And and I don't mean that in an egotistical way. I meant that in I've had so much experience in the state of Michigan in volleyball that I could unite uh the whole state in ways that maybe others couldn't, just because I know so many of those people. But I was like, you know what? We'll get this started, you know, we'll we'll see how that goes. But, you know, yeah, I think I'm interested in doing it. So that's what it was. And it was, and it was so peaceful. And I was, I was actually all of a sudden I was like, ooh, and I wasn't even hired yet. And I'm but I kind of thought I had the job, you know, it wasn't like official or anything like that. And I just went to work. I just was like looking at people overseas on film all the time, and I'm picking out players I'm gonna, I'd want to offer, you know, jobs to and everything like that. It was just crazy. And I was like excited, you know, and it got me back to my passion.

Speaker 1 32:54

When I think about your passion, and I think it's because you cared. You cared and you continued to care, and just that continuing to care for the sport to even give them references and to say, here's odd, like it just showed you you unselfishly cared about it to succeed. You wanted it to succeed, and and they couldn't have picked a better person.

Speaker 3 33:17

Thank you. You're so nice. Yeah, I do care, and I do want to see it be successful. So I'm so happy to give it be given the opportunity. I mean, they didn't have to choose me, you know. I had already retired in that, and and they did. And I I was just really grateful that that Dan DeVos and the group that they that they chose to do this because they were the first franchise. And without them doing that, they were the first risk taker to do this. And other people fell in line after that, and that's what made it happen. So that was also a risky thing by them.

Speaker 33:48

And uh just have to appreciate that from

Volleyball’s Growth And Parting Message

Speaker 33:51

them. How do you feel like the sport is changing today? That's my last question.

Speaker 3 33:55

Yeah, it's it's growing leaps and bounds. And you know, when when the Big Ten network started, you know, volleyball was one of those check marks, right? They they checked the box to say we're including women in the Big Ten network. And what was so cool is within a couple years, you know, they gave us so many televised games and then they added more, and then they added more because people were watching. It got to the place where it was the third most watched behind football and basketball, men's football and basketball. And then we were the third most watched in front of a lot of other teams. And all of a sudden, people started paying attention to volleyball and they were like, wow, this is a fun sport. I know it's a fun sport. I know it's awesome, I know it's exciting, but the number of people that come to the game for the first time here at The Rise, they're like, I had no idea. Because you know what they're thinking? Middle school volleyball, they're thinking their picnic, you know, that they're playing outside or their gym class. They're not thinking about this level. And when they get there, they're like, wow, she can jump. Look at how fast. How and and we're gaining respect for the sport and that the true, you know, athleticism of these females and the toughness and the all of that is kind of coming through. And people are people are coming out, and it's a fun, it's a fun environment. So real excited about the opportunity to grow the sport. And, you know, I'll be in my my nursing home on a, you know, just a rocking chair, just no teeth, and I'll be, you know, happy to see where this is in, you know, 20 years.

Speaker 1 35:18

Well, and just looking back, all of the families that you would have impacted. I can say from myself being a parent, bringing my daughter to the games, I just love how her face lights up, seeing these women do these incredible things. And I just it, I'm just like, I hope that we uh all kids get a chance to see just the impact that their eyes has and the girls out there.

Speaker 3 35:47

They're not in that that place where they just blow people up. No, they're they're really kind and they are they understand that they are helping young girls.

Speaker 1 35:57

Yeah, that's amazing. Well, thank you so much for joining me. Just closing thoughts.

Speaker 3 36:05

Yeah, I'm good. I mean, we've covered so much, right? So we covered a lot. I I guess my biggest thing is to women is like, hey, we've come a long way. Don't shrink. Understand that you have value, believe in yourself, even when maybe you haven't gotten the respect that you maybe think so you could think of yourself one way or the other. Continue to to prepare yourself to be the best you can be and and push forward and and and don't shrink. It's just you deserve it, you've worked for it, you're bright, you're ready to go, and just let's do it, right? Absolutely. Do it afraid, I guess.

Speaker 1 36:41

Do it afraid, be be fearless, right? Yeah, yeah. If this conversation resonated with you, I hope it reminded you that growth isn't always loud or linear, and that your moment may be closer than you think. Thank you for listening to what finally clicked. Until next time, stay curious, stay honest, and trust what's meant to click well.