Dave Gillespie - How Banks Modernize Systems at Scale

In the Season Finale of The Iteration Lab, Mike Corbett sits down with Dave Gillespie, Executive Vice President of Infrastructure & Modernization at CIBC, to explore the technology foundations that power modern banking.

Dave shares lessons from a career spent operating and modernizing complex enterprise systems that support millions of transactions every day. From building resilient infrastructure to leading large engineering organizations, he reflects on what it takes to evolve critical platforms while maintaining the reliability that financial institutions demand.

The conversation explores the realities of modernizing legacy systems, scaling technology across large organizations, and empowering teams to solve complex problems together. Dave also reflects on the mentors and experiences that shaped his leadership approach—from early technical roles to building high-performing teams responsible for some of the most important systems inside the bank.

Beyond technology, Dave shares personal perspectives on leadership, community involvement, and how experiences outside of work - from volunteering to backcountry skiing - have shaped how he thinks about preparation, risk, and responsibility.

This episode offers a thoughtful look at the people and systems behind modern banking - and the leadership required to support their evolution.

About the Show

The Iteration Lab explores how leaders are shaped by their history, their heroes, their heartbreaks, and their hopes. 

Hosted by Mike Corbett, each episode features candid conversations with business and technology leaders navigating complexity, change, and high-stakes decisions.

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Learn more about Jarvis Consulting Group: https://www.jrvs.ca/
Watch full episodes and short-form content on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@jarvisconsultinggroup

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

But I have organized rescues that weren't theoretical. And we have, you know, and we're all still here, which is good. But it's you know it's a complicated space.

SPEAKER_02 0:21

My guest today is a leader who's been at the forefront of technology and transformation in Canadian banking for nearly two decades. As executive vice president of infrastructure and modernization at CIBC, he's shaping how the bank's operations, infrastructure, and technology foundations power the entire life cycle of a transaction from initiation and processing through risk detection and fraud prevention. Throughout his career, across many roles in technology and operations, he's helped define the bank's approach to responsible AI, champion the signing of the Government of Canada's voluntary generative AI code of conduct, making CIBC the first major Canadian bank to do so, and led initiatives that have saved hundreds of thousands of hours through automation and intelligent design. Please welcome to the iteration lab Dave Gillespie.

SPEAKER_01 1:12

Thanks, Mike. I'm thrilled to be here and really looking forward to our conversation. But maybe just start with a bit of uh some history about how we met each other. Um you reached out to me uh on LinkedIn, which is an incredibly hard way to get to me, and said you wanted to talk to me about autism. And that is a way to get in to talk to me. And you know, you talked about a need to bring you know AI training to Jarvis and to help expand Geneva Center and worked with us on one, both helping us build out our first adult uh training courses, and then you know, through your your help, also helped us uh you know get funding and you helped lead some fundraising events for us and stuff. So I want to thank you for your involvement and you know your personal passion to help diversity across uh the Toronto landscape. I really appreciate that. Thank you, Dave. Yeah. So what's on your mind, Mike?

SPEAKER_02 2:19

There's a lot on my mind, and I'm I'm excited to get down deep. So, first question. Let's go back to way back in the day. What were you like as a little boy?

SPEAKER_01 2:33

Um, so I I would say, you know, my my my younger years, I did a lot of outdoor activity. I grew up in either small town or rural settings. Uh so, you know, a lot of outdoor time, a lot of uh of smallest sports, so not competitive. So I did a lot of you know skiing with my parents, so cross-country skiing in Manitoba, downhill skiing, which is an inherited passion, uh, you know, which my grandmother was the skier in the family. So she grew up in Colorado. So, so lots of lots of those smaller sports and in lots of sports in high school. Uh so a lot of that academically, never really knew what I wanted to do. Um, but you know, always did well in in school, and then you know, did a lot of music as well. So music, music, sports, uh academics, and a very close, you know, social group. So not huge, but always close. You know, always has been part of my my basis.

SPEAKER_02 3:38

That's your lifeline.

SPEAKER_01 3:39

Yeah, I but it but all of those things in balance, right? Like if you overweight anyone for too long, uh others suffer, and you know, so you know, now focus on family, health, a focus on, you know, career, a focus on community or things that that hold me while still investing in sports and music and those things. Yeah. Well grounded.

SPEAKER_02 4:04

I like it. So you've grown up in a technologically inclined household. What first sparked your interest in tech? That's what I'm curious about. And how did that curiosity involve uh evolve into a career?

SPEAKER_01 4:19

Well, I I I think I told my grade one teacher I was going to be an engineer when I grew up. Um but I I I didn't. Um, but uh, you know, my my father is an engineer, he was a metallurgist uh as by training. My mother's a mathematician. Uh they both worked in the atomic energy research, you know, industry. Uh so one, you know, fascinated by what they did at dinner table conversation was fascinating. People from around the world came to work with them and with the teams and and talking to them, so one you know, deeply educated household, deeply educated people I was always exposed to, and everybody like really pushing the edge of technology, right? How can we get more out of atomic energy? How can we make it safer? How can we, you know, how can we store waste? How can we, and these were not just technical conversations, but societal conversations and you know, very interesting people. And uh, you know, so that was that was a huge part of of my up my upbringing. So that set the tone for me. And then when the first uh VIC 20 came out, I had it and I was coding and I would record to a cassette, record my software to a cassette player so I could reload it and keep working on it. So I had that. I think I had version one of uh the the VIC 20.

SPEAKER_02 5:52

So an early adopter. I love it. You you always got to scratch that itch. Yeah. You you study commerce at the University of Manitoba and later completed the Institute of Corporate Directors program at U of T, which is awesome. How did that foundation prepare you for a career that bridges technology, business, and leadership?

SPEAKER_01 6:15

So so at the University of Manitoba, I I started in the accounting program and you know, had the you know, the biggest mistake I ever made was doing well in my first year accounting courses and thought I'd continue on. But but realized in for in second year, that wasn't wasn't my passion. My passion in high school had been coding and computers, and uh I pivoted. So luckily at the time they had a degree, which was a management information systems. About a third of my courses were computer science. Uh, I augmented the rest with quite a bit of finance. And uh yeah, so that that was sort of how I merged it. My summer jobs were coding. Uh actually, my first summer job in Trono in Toronto was the next building over uh from where we're sitting today. Uh coding in an advanced analytics language, uh helping a company uh solve some pretty interesting problems as a co-op student.

SPEAKER_02 7:15

Awesome. Wow. Yeah. That was a while ago. You so you maybe, I don't know. You've been touching that front very early on.

SPEAKER_01 7:25

Yeah, uh, yeah. So yeah, so that was a language not used today, uh, but but was well ahead of its time when it came out. Uh so yeah, it was uh it was a lot of fun. I learned a ton and mostly learned from people of how to work together in a deeply technical environment. So so the team was a combination, and and when I say combination, each individual was a combination of data scientist, computer scientists, and mathematician. And they, you know, the way they worked together and and how much they enjoyed peer review and how much they enjoyed having their code reviewed by somebody else and getting insightful thoughts on how to improve really, really opened my eyes at that at that summer dog. So awesome.

SPEAKER_02 8:15

Awesome. You spent much of your career at CIBC, growing from IT operations to enterprise leadership. What were some of the defining moments in that journey where you realized you were moving beyond keeping the systems up to shaping how technology could deliver value?

SPEAKER_01 8:35

So so I'd start with uh, you know, when I first started, it was uh some time ago, I think. Uh and and availability was a desired outcome, but not yet there. And to deliver availability required us to rethink how we build things. So even keeping the lights on required discipline and better architecture and better design. Because the ways to these things isn't just trying harder, it's really rethinking how you plumb things and build them. And I'd come out of huge scale IT. So I had come out of a role where I was leading teams across 60 data centers. Uh, so where scale mattered and where design mattered. So I really learned that before I joined the bank, that optimizing, standardizing, you know, efficiency came from getting it right. Efficiency didn't come from tools, uh, you know, it came from a broader segment of getting things right. So it's so bringing that, you know, sort of global IT management mindset to CIBC, sort of where I started. And then moving into, you know, really resetting what our platforms became and resetting how things ran on them. I had started my career as a developer, which I think always helped me in IT operations. So I always approached problems with client, with the development side, and then thinking through like how how often do I have to touch this thing? And if it's going to be a lot, then let's build it properly. If it's not, you may not, you know, you might err on the side of speed, but generally things that we build, we want to change, we want to be dynamic. So rethinking those things. So it was sort of that, that type of a journey as we went in. And I've been so fortunate at the bank where they've asked me to do all kinds of things. So I left that role and went to support our distribution team. And at the time, you know, distribution, you know, involved our online mobile contact center and banking center at a at a time when they were all all four of those were changing at a at a great pace. And it was just enormous fun uh to work there and and develop the talent and develop the people to deliver it. Because that was, you know, in that role, I couldn't uh I couldn't stay in front of my div my directs anymore. So that was the role where I truly shifted into what I'd say more leadership and less less me being the the anchor point for how we think of the future, but but really bringing you know bringing a capability set and and teaching them that working together and harnessing their superpowers was was the way to move.

SPEAKER_02 11:16

Would you say that would be attributed through the technological understanding through your your technology background plus inquisitiveness in that design?

SPEAKER_01 11:27

So I I am deeply curious, and to the point of it almost being my uh my detractor, uh like what I enjoy most is learning how big, complex things work, and then trying to understand how to how to rethink how they could work or could they be better. Uh and I have a need to constantly be working on huge problems. And and that's the most important thing to there is to me. So the fact the bank has let me continue to do that, and you know, my latest journey, what one with operations, is all about in the details. You you can't be at a high level and wonder how certain large transactions occur. Like we we have to actually be in it. Uh, you can't be talking about AI as theoretical as we're trying to build backbones that we can scale to enormous capacities.

SPEAKER_02 12:26

You said you're driven by producing client and shareholder outcomes. Looking back, where did that commitment to client and shareholder excellence come from? And how did it guide your career choices?

SPEAKER_01 12:40

So that's a great question. I like early in my career, I was fortunate enough to work for an organization that when you started the first six to 12 months, they just took you and said, you're not gonna work with us, and they dropped you in the client. And that was my first job. So I started with one of the biggest tech companies in the world at the time. We had 330,000 employees. I went there thinking I was gonna do a bunch of tech. And they said, okay, you're gonna go work for a company, you're gonna go work inside the company. They said, you're gonna take over their systems and accounting. So you're working in the accounting department. And the accounting department said, Okay, we're gonna move you through every single function we have. I started doing journal entry. I, you know, got involved in forecasting and planning. I worked the strategy team, like they literally put me everywhere they had. I was a fascinating company, like a company I still am deeply enthralled with. Uh, they're still an anchor point in Ontario small business and in the Ontario farming communities and just loved it. But but that was where it started because I was in the clients, like I worked at the client. I was essentially their employee. And then when I took over their systems, like I I knew what they wanted and I I I could envision what they wanted to accomplish, but I didn't, but I knew to ask and I knew how to talk to them and I knew to say, how do I put your needs? Right. And the company I worked for was Texas based, so the shareholder was always in the room with you. Uh, you know, so I think that ground uh that grounding of you know, always a lens to the shareholder. Client first with a lens to shareholder became a huge passion. Uh but but not to forget, like bringing all your stakeholders along. So, you know, at CIVC, we balance across all our stakeholders, and there are many. But if you get client and shareholder right, your employees will be happy and you will have the capability to work with your communities as well. So those two become the anchor point.

SPEAKER_02 14:48

Okay, so speaking about community, you currently serve on the board of the Geneva Center for Autism. How has being a part of that um personal connection influenced the way you think about leadership, responsibility, and building technology that respects people's needs?

SPEAKER_01 15:06

So so I would just step back and say, you know, my passion for Geneva Center comes from the fact that we were clients. So we have autism in our household and we use their services uh, you know, so as part of our journey with autism, you know, we've used their services in a variety of ways over the years. And as I was hitting the stage where I wanted to give back, uh a dear friend of mine introduced me to the CEO of the Geneva Center. And I was enamored with the vision that Abe Ever Abe Evernitis had for the Geneva Center. And I wanted to be a part of his vision. So, so one that part. And then giving back, you know, for me, you know, I I wanted to give back in in a way that made the most sense given my skill set. So so being, you know, able, you know, coming from a large organization, you know, I could bring governance, I could bring, you know, of a real corporate view to what they did as they were expanding rapidly. So so I so I did that. And you know, I'm I'm just thrilled with what Abe and his team have done. And uh, you know, the board has almost been hanging on and along for the ride. It's really been fascinating to watch. But, you know, they've they've taken this place and really turned the culture. So since I've joined, they've grown, like materially grown, the number of people they serve, they've grown their geographical footprint, they've grown how they bring education to Ontario. And and through all of that, they've also grown their balance sheet, which is it, you know, in this day and age is almost impossible to do in the not-for-profit center. And this all comes down to Abe, his management team, how they work together, how they envision the future. And you know, it's been nothing but positive. Uh so you know, when people like you reach out, I I don't hesitate to bring you together with that organization. They're world class.

SPEAKER_02 17:09

I've seen it firsthand. It's very impressive. Yeah. Great cause.

SPEAKER_01 17:14

Yeah. So it's so they're fun to engage in. And for me, like it is how I give back. And, you know, it's hard. Like volunteering is hard. And I I commend anybody who volunteers in any capacity because everybody has another whole gamut to their life, right? In a priority sequence. And and putting that as a priority and making time for it and truly giving of your time and being present is is hard. It's complicated. Uh, so like I truly commend anybody to do it and I encourage anybody, uh, because it gives back more than you put in. It it really does.

SPEAKER_02 17:50

Uh so um in our previous conversations, you've spoken about some of the hobbies that you've had outside of work. Um, one of my passions on my own, backcountry skiing, for example. Um, that takes planning, resilience, and adaptability. What lessons from those experiences have carried over to your professional life?

SPEAKER_01 18:13

So, so I mean, backcountry skiing is, you know, and I and I do it both mechanized as well as hiking. So, one, if you're hiking, you have to be in really good shape. If you're mechanized, you have to be in decent shape. But so one is, you know, as a guide for me is to pivot and you know, I've decided to focus more on that side of my life. So I'm, you know, trying to get in better shape as we're working through it. But one is, you know, you need to prepare your whole self for it. The other is real humility and respect. Um, you know, we've my I I ski with a fairly tight-knit group. We've had a couple of incidents and we're lucky. And we know it's luck. We know in some cases we made mistakes. So, one, I've taken some training. I think you've had somebody else on who did the course with me at West. Um, but uh, you know, so I've done basic training. I want to continue my training. I don't know if I'd ever self-guide in anything complicated, but I certainly want to self-guide in simple environments. But, you know, a deep respect. And, you know, I know my role. Like I am, I'm the one in the party who doesn't get excited when I look down at something. I'm the one who'd be willing to say, this isn't the right day to ski this. We're gonna go back. We're gonna do like, you know, and so I'm the one who can give that insight and uh, you know, work with the team, but but I have organized rescues that weren't theoretical. And we have, you know, and we're all still here, which is good. But it's you know, it's a complicated space. Um, but I love it. I love being in the mountains, I love being there in the summer, I love being there in the winter. I love I just love the mountains. Uh it's a huge passion of mine, which came from my family. All right.

SPEAKER_02 20:04

So I love it. I can see how a lot of it in that world can be applied into your professional world.

SPEAKER_01 20:11

The pressure, the willingness to say the risks don't make sense. The willingness to not do something is way harder. Um, but but you know, when you're dealing with your clients with their life, with their livelihoods, with their money, right, with their reputation, you know, you need to you you need to put that before your own needs. And, you know, I think if you do that every time, respect that and respect your shareholders, you do it. I don't think you need to worry about regulators if you get those two things right, because I think the regulators were kind of saying, yeah, that's what we were hoping for.

SPEAKER_02 20:54

I love it. Thank you. Earlier we tried to chatted about your transition from IT operations to leadership. Um, who helped guide you through that change? Um, were there mentors or leaders that made that early impact?

SPEAKER_01 21:10

I've had many, many mentors through my career uh who have helped, and some on the technical side, some on the leadership side, um, some that I've observed. And and I'd say, you know, at a senior level, like people have superpowers. And the trick is to figure out what they are and monitor them and watch and see how they do them. But also, you know, respect that no everybody has flaws. So, you know, sometimes you see people try to emulate leaders and they end up emulating the flaws. And that's really unhelpful. Because if they didn't have the superpower, the flaws may be all that you see. So, so one was a deep, you know, I was always introspective about myself, but also introspective about people that I admired, because nobody Is perfect and being careful to not harness the things that could be damaging. But what are the great things? So how do you get the team motivated and driving forward? Right. How do you how do you lead a dialogue with senior people to get them aligned to concepts and ideas, which you know remains complicated for anybody? But you know, really sort of picking out. So there was no one person. I'd say there were probably seven or eight people who really helped me form those types of thoughts as I as I moved through. And you know, and I would say the same about me. There are things that I'm better at and things that I would hope people don't emulate.

SPEAKER_02 22:46

We don't have to dive into that, but maybe one thing would be what would your superpower be?

SPEAKER_01 22:51

Uh so I I used to think it was my ability to solve problems, but it's not. Um, I actually I'm really good at build building high-performing teams, and I never go into a situation thinking that's my motivation, but I do it. And I do it, you know, by working with a team to set a common vision. It's not mine. Right? There are we have inputs and we have needs and we have to do certain things, but letting them help set the vision. And we might course correct and we'll seek input. And, you know, and once we have that, then how do we get there? And and and letting the teams gestate and letting them go. And and some people aren't prepared for that, and that's fine. But people who are and can do that, and can do that with their groups and can teach their teams how to do that, you end up with an organization that's high performing. And I I think that's what I've my superpower has been. You know, notwithstanding I started with, I need to solve big problems and do these things. I need to do it without stepping in front of my teams or or disempowering them and doing this because it's my data. Nobody can learn from I can't learn from your data. So, so this is an example. Very insightful and very, very awesome to see that you've taken that plunge.

SPEAKER_02 24:07

That's great. Can you recall a moment early in your career that shaped how um you approached leadership now?

SPEAKER_01 24:18

So so like I've always had uh you know, I've always had some moments that I recall. Um, but the fur, you know, the first one was when I was very young. I was just starting out, and I um, you know, I was working, and my manager came to me, and I'd been, I I just finished my um client time. I'd done my 12 weeks of mandatory corporate training in Michigan, uh, which was thrilling for my new bride to come and live in in Michigan with me. Um and um, you know, I had been working for six months back on the account and doing all kinds of interesting things. And he, my my manager then came and said to me, you know, you need to open your horizons and think about leaving the account. I'm going, What do you mean? I was having fun. It never occurred to me to know what a corporate ladder was. Like I was happy. He's like, Well, he said, you should think about, you know, you doing bigger things. So I'm like, oh, okay. What bigger things? He said, Well, you need to get to know my boss so you get some lens of what a bigger organization and stuff. So he told me to go and build that relationship. So once a week, I would spend an evening with his boss. Other people were there too. I just knew where he'd be. I'd show up, get to know him, listen, learn. And he had done some fascinating projects. So he had come out of General Motors. They had done some fascinating queuing theory, mathematical work with the G with the GM uh manufacturing plants, and he had led that work. And no way was he the mathematician on queuing theory, but but he led the team that was. And it was they changed how GM manufactured cars globally, changed how everybody did it, right? So it was fascinating to see his thought process where they went as a result, you know, not only that, he got promoted and he he helped then move me. So that that was early days and just learning, like go invest, listen and listen. Listen. Like why, what, what, what were his motivations? Why did he do it? How did it work? And you know, so that was sort of the first experience. And then he became a mentor of me for years to come, even after I'd left his organization. He and I would still have a quarterly call. And I would still seek his advice. And to be fair, he sought mine too, uh, on areas where I was topical, but uh, but certainly uh kept that relationship.

SPEAKER_02 27:01

So very early on, you knew the importance of relationships and mentorship and learning from others.

SPEAKER_01 27:08

Yep. And and that relationship just given how close the Jays just came, I'll just say that relationship had uh I traded him my game seven tickets with his game six tickets. So I was on the third baseline on October 23rd in 1993 with my wife. And he was at a hockey fundraiser and he sold my tickets for hundreds of dollars when the game was still tied. That is cool. Talk about payback for an early investment in a relationship.

SPEAKER_02 27:44

Wow. Wow, yeah. What a game. What a game. Yeah. Uh Dave, personally, when you think about um who's influenced your leadership style, does your family experience, especially uh parenting a child with autism, um does it shape the way you lead with empathy um or advocate for colleagues, clients, or shareholders?

SPEAKER_01 28:09

I I think lots of those things do. Um like there's lots of inputs to how you lead, how you show up. Um, you know, I do lead with empathy. It doesn't always feel like that to everybody. Um, we are running a business, so I'm I'm pretty adamant, but but the health of the health of the whole team is needed. So, you know, like show up, show up personally for people, you know, make sure that that you're there to support them. Um and the team isn't just the people who work for you. The team is, you know, the people who are around you, above you. Um it's a broad team. So yeah, so I think so lots of my you know influences have helped with that. Um, you know, and uh, you know, in my house, you know, m my parents would drop anything, you know, to help their friends, their family, to show up for others. Um, you know, and you know so I just observed it and just never occurred to me not to do it. And at home, I have a great role model. My wife is uh is a great leader in the small community we live in. And you know, she gets personally engaged when families have issues in our community. And you know, so you know, watching at home too. Like she, my wife votes with her time and her feed. So lead by leaning in.

SPEAKER_02 29:38

I love it. No better way. Yep. Um, we've covered a lot of ground, but now we're gonna loosen things up a bit. Um, welcome to the fork in the road. So we have a quick round of this or that questions. Um, and this is to see where your instincts take you. Sounds good? Let's go. Okay. Early bird or night owl? Night owl.

SPEAKER_01 30:06

I knew it.

SPEAKER_02 30:08

Tell me more.

SPEAKER_01 30:10

I I get up early and work out and I go to bed early. That is not my natural state. Um, so it's funny in my house, my that's my father's natural state. Um, I think my mom's on a 25-hour clock and wants to stay an hour up later every day, but my mom and I are aligned. I would much rather be up till one and sleep till ten. Uh, once we had kids, like my wife and I are like realize that's not going to work, and I need to work out before I go to work. I need to get that, just get that going. Like I just might my creative juices fire when I work out in the morning. So I get up super early and do that and get in. But my natural state would be uh, you know, uh, you know, stay up late uh and uh get up later. But you know, things I like to do like skiing and biking and hiking, you you gotta be up before the sun's up, like way before the sun's up. And a lot of those things I start with nightlights on or headlights so that you know, if you want to do a long hike, you better be out like crack like cracking so that if something happens, you have time to resolve, right? So yeah. Cool, cool. Coffee or tea? You know, when I first saw that question, I would have said coffee, but I've recently been introduced to tea that I like. Uh so I uh I had some high-end matcha recently, so I'm kind of an in-between guy right now. I drink uh some exquisite matcha that we uh bring in from a few different places in Japan, and I also have my coffee each day, too. So I'm like one of each right now.

SPEAKER_02 31:51

Okay. In between. I gotta get that matcha. I gotta get that brand name. I was in Japan and the matcha stuff they had there is amazing.

SPEAKER_01 31:59

Yeah, so yeah. And they're not changing, they won't be bought out. The same family that's made it for centuries will still be making it centuries from now. Awesome. Um, mountains or oceans? Both. I lived on the ocean for three years. Every vacation I had growing up in the summer was backpacking in the mountains. Uh, so I lived in, my wife and I were fortunate enough to live on a beach in Australia for three years. Absolutely loved it. Just completely immersed in beach culture. And, you know, so I surfed, we swam all the time. Uh, we took advantage of the outdoor life, like greatly took advantage. And similarly, you know, we have a place in the mountains and we share with my parents. Uh, we absolutely love the mountains. I, you know, so but I'm I'm not choosing between them. Um, you know, the question is, can we afford not to do both? Uh I think that's that's the question. So my wife, you know, would rather winter on the ocean than winter in the cold mountains. So I think there's uh there's some we'll we'll look at both. Love them love them both.

SPEAKER_02 33:16

So okay. Tea or coffee on mountains or in the ocean. I love it. Book or podcast? Book.

SPEAKER_01 33:26

I've never found podcasts a super way for me to absorb content. I'm I'm sure this one will be different, but uh as it were, but uh no, more of a book person. Yeah. And some books are hard, and I don't put them down anymore. I keep plowing at them, but uh yeah, book.

SPEAKER_02 33:49

It's easier for me, it it's easier for it to go one ear and out the other and not fully understand it, whereas text and you're hyper-focused, just looking at it. You compute it a little easier, at least for me.

SPEAKER_01 34:03

Yeah. Yeah, and books that force you to stop and think about the problem or the use case. And um I've been fortunate I found a few like that in the last year. That's great. That's great.

SPEAKER_02 34:18

Text or phone call depends what it is.

SPEAKER_01 34:24

Um if it matters, call. Like if it has to be dealt with immediately, call. Um, if you're my child, call. Anytime. That's not happening. But uh, but you know, the the the children have moved to text. But uh I don't think they even know about the voice feature on their phones. But um, you know, the you know, I think it depends on on the need of for s for time and speed. And like, you know, given my age, I'm still an email person. So I use all of them, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:02

I have to agree with you. Uh it depends on the situation, the urgency. It's hard to have a hard and fast roll of one or the other.

SPEAKER_01 35:10

Yeah, and you know, you know, at at my level, there are things like the bank runs seven by twenty four, our clients say just seven by twenty-four. If something you know needs to be resolved or or could have implications for our clients, I'd rather be woken up. My texts don't wake me up. They they text our silence, so so it's phone. Um and I'd rather be woken up for a non-issue than wake up and find that there was an issue. Um better be safe than sorry. Well, not even that. Just you know, if the team even wonders if they should call you, they should. If they even thought about it, they should. Because their needs you're not gonna solve their problem, right? You you can make sure you support their problem and then you support their way board. But if they think they might need to call you, it probably means they should call you, because it means they think they need something. I you know, I'm not hands on a keyboard or know how all their systems are put together anymore. It's been a few years since I knew that layer, so you know, but it's more giving support to the thought process. So cool. Yeah. Fancy restaurant or food truck. So I'd say fancy restaurant, but um but but not with like the tiny little things, um, more like fancy but quality, but but feeling more like home cooked but fancy, like home cooked, but yeah, I like uh I I like that. And I like that some of the Michelin-starred restaurants aren't just you know the tiny little things. And I enjoy that too, but it's not it's not the same as going to something that feels more like a meal. Like it doesn't have to be art every time.

SPEAKER_02 37:08

I hear you. When it's art, I I I feel bad for eating it. You have five five portions and you're still hungry.

SPEAKER_01 37:17

Yeah, I mean it depends on the time and a place. Yeah, yeah, it it it does. But but like I say, I like like the other, and it's not not huge quantity, just like fresh ingredients, farm to table type of mentality. You don't you don't need f seven dishes to do that extremely well. So so I like that sort of thing, but I don't mind the other once in a while. Um my wife's not quite as aligned. Um, she's more on the the former as she does. She doesn't like the the little stuff. She's just like, okay, just I don't need to come to that.

unknown 37:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:58

That's cool. That's always my favorite part. You really get to see a little bit more about somebody on those types of questions. So thank you. Let's shift gears again and go back into the bigger picture. Every leader has moments that test them. Can you share a professional setback or tough moment that really shaped how you lead today?

SPEAKER_01 38:21

Um, yeah, like we were at the bank, we were trying to do a first um in the Canadian industry. And it at the time, the technology we were using wasn't ours. We had we're on a vendor platform. We had all the ideas, all the right engineers, but we couldn't change the code. And nobody had told our business partner that we didn't have a contract yet. So I came in brand new, took this over, and and managing the business partner, managing the third party, managing my team, you know, to get to a common outcome. And we did, and we were the first bank in Canada to have launched what we launched. Um took more energy, sorry, first of all, it took more energy out of me than I could have ever hoped or wanted. But, you know, that sort of compounding, you know, really, really put it, you know, put it in complex, you know, really complex situation and in learning how to lead, right? Because they're, well, we don't have a car. And I said, well, we'll get a contract. Well, what's how are you going to do that? Well, I kept figuring out the cut the corporation because somebody had acquired the company that we had, the software with, and trying to figure them out. And I found somebody with common ground who who was able to achieve, like buy into our vision and achieve outcomes. And and that took a while, you know, but but how you know getting everybody to pull in the same direction. And then, you know, working with my business partners to say, like, what is the most, well, this is the most strategic thing. I said, well, based on that, I said to the business partner, we shouldn't have that code outsourced. I said, whatever you think. And that's what whatever you think. So we brought it all in-house. You know, we went from one mobile developer to 30 mobile developers in a year, and have never, and we've never looked back. Uh, and based on that, we then, you know, went through our gen three of online and mobile platforms. And again, the business, you know, we took forward, you know, a big spend, but we said, like, this will stand the test of time. We're still on that platform. In fact, we just launched it in the US. Um, so this, you know, that like getting that, you know, one leading through it, but then it gave us the opportunity and the right to then say, and now this is what we should do next. And it was a good conversation while the business business drove their business and set their things and said, this is what our client needs to do, this is what we need to accomplish, right? And and you know, that was an easy balance uh once we had that first thing behind us. But leading through that situation and getting everybody aligned to an outcome was, you know, for me, was was one of the biggest shifts in in how I had to lead and show up with them. So yeah. Great example. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 41:30

So you've been a leader in applying AI at CIBC. Have you faced resistance, um, skepticism? And how did you work through that and get people on board?

SPEAKER_01 41:43

So so they I mean, AI has been interesting. Um I think it's almost been not enough skepticism. So it's actually the the AI, like people are fascinated, and people who haven't worked in the advanced analytics or probabilistic space of the world don't always think through the fact that it may not give you the answer you desire. Um, and you know, people use words like right or wrong. Well, there's no right or wrong, it's math. Right. And it's probabilities and it's math. And the dirtier your data, the wider the aperture for your outcomes. And and and I think as AIs progress, both what we generate ourselves as well as what we're seeing coming from the large firms, the accuracy is astounding. And you know, but but I think people's optimism about what it can do is almost worse than them, you know, not being adopters. And sure, adopters where we put a tool and you have to use the tool is one thing. But having it run autonomously, people are like, oh, well, it's gonna talk to our clients through this and this, this. I'm going, I I think it will too. But how do we trust it and what's that framework? And what what do you think you have to do as a business leader to arm our our our mathematicians with the data so that they can accurately build this model and this capability set for you? And and I think that's more of the challenge is almost tamping down these heightened expectations. Um, you know, and the other thing is there's no there's no one AI answer. Well, we're gonna turn AI on and save as much as like, well, it's not like lights. Like we will create sets of AI agents or use cases. We will assemble them, like we'll try to, you know, we'll create base platforms, create base agents, try to reuse them, assemble them, do more and more interesting things across them. But, you know, if somebody's moving$100 to their grandson, you better move$100. To their grandson. They can't probably move$100 to their grandson. So, so the you know, in the real world, we need definitive outcomes and we need measure, be able to measure it. And and balancing those things and explaining that is actually harder than the other piece. Like I think that's part of it. Um, and then the other thing is is business leaders need to be the ones to start seeing how this will work in their business environments. So like I can't reimagine what a commercial banker does. I can't reimagine what an investment advisor does. Right? I can have ideas and I can work with people on it. But you know, the business strategy is still the business strategy. AI doesn't change that. What changes is how you deliver it today. Eventually, what may change is you know, massively changing how we deliver it. Like it could be very different and feel very different. And then eventually, like I'd said before, possibly even new products and capabilities that we give to our clients that. And the business needs to lead that. Like, you know, before it's been, you know, the businesses have always led their change. And I was saying, well, you know, what's AI? Like, well, you need to know. And and I'm super proud of being at CIBC because our you know, our leadership team, you know, and power, you know, enabled by our our R HR team, built amazing training, starting with our executive team. Like, you know, from you know, our group executive leadership team to all the EVPs, we had multi-day curated experiences with senior AI education institutions, time at MIT, time here, so that people left with a real deep understanding of what the technology is, what the risks are, how to think of it. And then we've done a full day of immersion with every single executive in the bank. And we've recently launched uh an a one-hour AI course. What is AI? What are the risks of using AI? What's your responsibility when you use it? And then with some advanced um uh some advanced uh techniques for uh getting the most out of it. And um, it's the most taken voluntary code course in CIBC history. More than 43,000 people have taken the course. Wow. So it's um it's it's just amazing. And you know, that partnership, like the whole company coming together. HR is a huge part of our AI transformation. How you know, people change management, envisioning the future, thinking about skill sets, you know, how do we invest in the whole population and our leadership population? And so it's it's really been great working in like the whole organization is behind it. Lots of opportunity on almost every front, it seems. Yeah, but you need to bring people have to be ahead of the tech. And you need people who are really close to the client journey to understand how to how to work with clients, work with those journeys, and you know, reimagine them.

SPEAKER_02 47:29

I would agree. Well said. So you you were a strong advocate for CIBC being a signatory to Canada's first generative AI code of conduct, which is pretty cool. Um, which would have meant getting alignment across legal, regulatory, um, tech, and executive teams. Um that can't that that couldn't have been easy. Uh what were the toughest parts of that process?

SPEAKER_01 47:54

And what did it teach you? So it actually was the simplest thing that we did in the last year. I'm looking at Jenny. So when they came out with the signatory, we read it. We mapped it back to how we governed AI. And the gaps were because we were doing more. And it again, it talks to the principle. Put your client first, look after your shareholders and look after your community. And if you build your governance and your framework around those principles, it was a no-brainer. So all we did was present that we were already compliant, not just compliant, but we were already ahead of it, and that we would continue to be ahead of it in the future years, that it was a no-brainer. It was the easiest decision I've actually had to go through. Uh, so you know, it that one was actually remarkable. Uh, but you know, we have, you know, we had a robust AI framework. We have a robust governance process, both in how we evaluate Nouvelle use cases, also in how we govern together. So, you know, AI is democratized. There are AI teams all around the bank. And once a month, we all come together. And some of it's on governance and controls and making sure we're consistent, but most of it's on new ideas and new capabilities and people sharing what they're building. And there's a super strong community. Uh, people are so interested in new ideas and then pattern matching. Well, if you can do that, how can I do this? Or if you've done that, if we couple it with what we've built, how would we think of that? And both in traditional as well as with Gen AI. Like the traditional world is moving as fast as the Gen AI world in terms of capability and what it will bring to our clients and shareholders. So Lillian. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 49:58

Thank you. So so far, we've talked about professional challenges, how personal experiences like advocating for your child or serving with the Geneva Center also changed how you respond uh when things don't go as planned. What are you most excited about in your current role and how and in how AI and infrastructure uh are evolving at CIBC right now?

SPEAKER_01 50:24

So I think right now in the in the current role, like it feels like we've built a lot. What I'm most excited about is what I think we look like in a five-year horizon. And so understanding that, working with our business partners, understanding what our bank looks like in five years is I I think is it's an exciting story. And our business leaders, like every single one of them, has a component of AI to deliver on the outcomes they want to deliver on. And so they've reimagined their strategy differently because now they can enable it with AI. So seeing that transformation is one very exciting, and then you know, seeing what we can build. And we've built core capability that allow us to do certain things very rapidly. We have a lens to what we still need to build is core capability, and the business is on board with letting us build it. And you know, so building base capability that doesn't pay off in any one thing but will support hundreds of use cases remains important. Uh so you know, feeling that the bank is aligned to how we do that and and what we want to build, uh, I think is it's it's extremely motivating. But not just that, but seeing then what are the outcomes. So our operations team started deploying AI agents running autonomously in operations before COVID. The outcomes we deliver where we've been doing that are, you know, we we benchmark ourselves regularly versus our peer groups. We're winning because we have this mentality of doing this. And that mentality is at every layer of our organization. People, it's not just that they feel empowered to change their, you know, change how change how they do things, they know it's expected of them. So, you know, so that that that mindset pervades the whole organization. So I'm very confident as we're doing this that the whole bank is going to shift. And in five years, everybody will feel empowered to drive the changes they need because the speed we need to move at, everything can't bubble up to a decision and bubble back down. We need we need the agility of letting people who are closest to their clients drive the outcomes they need to.

SPEAKER_02 53:09

And that that leads to the next question. Um AI is evolving fast, very quickly. Um and you've said the future of AI in banking is is is on that trajectory. How do you see CIBC leading the way in responsible AI? And why is that important to you?

SPEAKER_01 53:29

So so I think it so how we've approached it at CIBC, you know, to align with all the global regulations as well as uh legislation, you know, is really stepping back and taking a transverse risk approach. There is no AI risk, but AI affects many, many risk stripes. So we've built out uh risk assessment processes and risk tracking and monitoring controls for the enterprise, and we've brought the whole organization together on that. So, you know, sort of privacy office, which is one of the most important things as we look at this, because the ability to take mass amounts of data, you know, is now so easy. And the first question is is did our client expect us to do that with their data? And, you know, it has to be not just what we have the legal right to do. It's would our client have expected us to use our data that way? Because we're we're expanding faster than we can change our client consent. We're doing things that you might not be able to explain to a client. So you need to always ask yourself that question. Um, you know, you have to be legally able to do it, but also, you know, would the client have expected you to do that with their data? And and if the answer is no, then well, either we need to tell them that's what we intend to do with their data and have a frank conversation or resist and do that. So that's baked into our process, into our psyche, into our mindset of putting our clients first as we move through this. Um, and that, you know, that's why I feel comfortable going fast because every AI use case goes through the scrutiny with the risk stripes. And the people who evaluate that work in all parts of the bank. So they bring they bring their expertise to bear when they evaluate these pieces.

SPEAKER_02 55:28

Love it. So you've also talked about AI freeing up people from routine tasks so that they can focus on high value work. Um, what does that look like in practice for both team and members and for clients?

SPEAKER_01 55:42

So so in operations, what it looks like is is a pivot from toil to more engineering. So we have, you know, we you know, we we were running um you know our our view of the future of the operations team. So today we have 300 people that I would call operations engineering. So not software developers, but low-code, no-code, designing, moving, working side by side with software developers to re-envision the future. So as we go, there'll be less toil. And uh, you know, so we had always optimized, you know, things that were deterministic and we had automated as much of that as we could. But now AI lets us tackle, you know, unstructured data in the same way we tackle structured data. We now have methods, platforms, et cetera. So we just assume that's done. It'll take me years to finish it, but that's happening. So now as we do that, the toil of this menial sort of activity will drift away. We'll have more of these higher-end functions. And and I think you see a pivot to you know, more and more soft skills in a bank, you know, went out, with also a growth in the people who deliver and execute. So that engineering, product engineering, um, operations engineering, and uh, you know, getting to this environment, you know, where we work together. And, you know, one of the leading examples is actually how our AI team works with technology. The AI, you know, given tool sets, we actually prototype things. And my AI enablement team, who owns a number of our core platforms, will prototype things and then they actually deliver the prototype with code to tech to explain the requirements. Like the, the, the, you know, so tech companies were here years ago, and we're seeing this merge. Um, you know, one of our, you know, one of the top developers in the bank leads the business for digital. Right. One of the top developers of the bank leaves the business for AI platform expansion, right? So you're seeing this now merging a business and tech in a bank. So we had seen it happening at the hyperscalers years ago. We're all like, oh, wow, like it would be great if we didn't have these controls. We do have these controls. But it's okay. You just need to respect the controls and respect you know what needs a full software development lifecycle wrapped around it and make sure that that you're true to yourself and that you measure every use case to know that you've made the correct decisions and can explain it to yourself a year later that you can still test yourself that you did make the right decisions. So but but we see that merging happening rapidly across every domain. And I think you know, product manager roles are going to explode in in a positive way. I think it'll be fascinating because the speed you can go when you have that level of interaction is stunning. So I see the writing on the wall. Yeah. Well, it's actually coding, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 59:09

So when you think about responsible AI, does your experience as a parent inform you how you think about technology, um, specifically taking into account inclusivity or being respectful of people's needs?

SPEAKER_01 59:24

I you know, I think with technology it's been interesting. Um, as a parent, my children are in very different ends of the technology spectrum. Um, you know, one much more a user, the other a builder. Um the one likes making physical things, which is good, because that's work that will persist. As as you know, as you think about, you know, the shape of work will evolve just like it's always evolved. Um but but the other, you know, you know, when when I graduated from high school, my parents bought me a small car. I was the happiest person in the world. Uh when my son graduated, he's like, What do you want? Oh, I want a computer. Okay, let's go on a computer shop. No, no. I want the bits of a computer and I'll build it myself. So we went out, we bought all kinds of things. And, you know, you know, and I like to read the instructions three times before I touch something that costs a thousand dollars just in assembling stuff. And then he looks up and says, We don't have enough ports for the fans. He's like, We're gonna have to order this part. And then he'd go back and build. My job was to go be the uh main, you know, procurement team and go and get his parts for him. Um so you know, so being informed was partly just seeing how they evolved differently um and what their needs were and how they did it. So like complete opposite ends uh of how they how they would work with it. And then one works with all the apps, the the less technical one works with all the apps, the older one uh just doesn't care once they're built, wants to move on.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:08

All that all those all those different personalities, yeah, all complement each other. We all need it in in every different way of life. Yeah. Um innovation has has long been a hallmark uh of CIBC. When you look at the next few years, how do you hope to see AI and modernization not just transition and transform banking, uh, but contribute to Canada's economy uh more broadly?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:33

So uh So I think I mean contributing to the economy more broadly is hard. I think um you know we want to create capacity uh so that we can give capital back and help growth. Like we want to help Canada grow. We want to be there for growth, we want to support, you know, the Canadian, you know, the Canadian economy and help that growth. And so some of the tools we're building are to help the teams who do that, right? So as an example. And then at a broader level, you know, can we make it easier for firms to work with us so that they can spend time building what they need to build rather than you know spending inordinate amounts of time, you know, doing the mechanics of banking? And you know, I was fascinated. One of the banks I admire globally has a measure of time given back to client. And I think that's a great way to think about how are you affecting your client? So part of it, how do we give time back to our client? And then are we empowering them to do what they want to do? Right. So are we giving them the tools and the capital that they need so that they can succeed?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:50

I like that measure. That's great. So backcountry skiing is about navigating risk and uncertainty. Two things leaders deal with all the time, of course. How do you see that mindset influencing how you think about the future in AI and banking?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:09

So navigating that isn't one person's job, it's a team's job. You know, so one is like we need we have a broad number of T people and teams who work together to navigate that risk versus reward, and what level do we need to be at? But it starts with a deep respect of measuring, measuring outcomes and measuring accuracy and being able to do it. And you know, things that we're all so familiar with, with legacy, you know, machine learning that we've all developed, you know, we can monitor all kinds of data and information, and you know, we can recreate things using other math models, like uh these things don't exist. So building the harnesses, reimagining how you measure whether things work has been a phenomenal journey. And in fact, we've never measured humans, but it forces us to now measure humans because we're doing A-B testing. And um, you know, people get things wrong. I mean, executives far more than others, senior executives far more than others. But even in the toil work, we got things wrong. And so we have business controls wrapped around it, but there's always tolerance within business controls, and there's always things that may not cause issues. But when you're putting in automation, you know, the the what we worry about is that you know, human may humans may have normal distribution of errors, and they may be there's a processor, they collect or you know, collect around a point, but generally think of them as being normally distributed. The worry with an automated solution is you may have the same number of errors that they may hyperfocus someone's base. And if you can't monitor and understand your error rates and get to a very discrete level, um you you may cause issues. So they need to hypermeasure and hyper hyper get in there. And, you know, my first backcountry experience um where I was in what I would say was a serious environment. Uh, it was ended up being the singular best ski day of my entire life. Uh, I was alone with a guide, and it we had the biggest snowfall I'd ever skied in. We were on a ridge on a steep, steep run, and he dug a pit. And the level, like we did not leave, we did not go down until he determined it was safe enough. He said, There's always risk, so you know we're not, there's no risk free uh skiing and fresh powder, but the level He went to watching him, observing how he went through it, you know, looking at him, look at the crystalline structure, which you know, and you know, how he tested where he went. Um, you know, and then his advice didn't leave me feeling as comfortable. It's like when you turn right, look up over your shoulder. But uh, but it was you know, that level, like he got into it. It was like what I describe as field level assessment before we stepped into it. Um and then testing, because you know, with uh with unstructured data, the data variation is much higher than it is with structured data. So so also respecting that you'll never get the same accuracy as we had with with structured data, respecting it's not deterministic. So truly rebuilding your business controls with that respect in mind has to happen. So um, you know, this is where process engineering and people who truly understand their businesses comes to bear. I love it. I love it how you put those two together. It makes a lot of sense.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:08

That's great. So we're doing something called the next iteration, where we ask guests to leave a question for the next guest. Um, and this is without knowing who it is. And before we get into your question, the question that's been left for you is How do you spot those opportunities when change comes?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:28

And what do you do with them?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:31

So I I guess when change comes, I think the first thing is I try to assess is it something that that is worth pursuing? Right, and you know senior executives in the tech and AI space are bombarded with amazing ideas. Every single day. From our own organizations, from externals, from people who are selling ideas. So so first off is knowing how to filter that. And then once you've decided there is something worth pursuing, um, is like how how do you know? So part of it would be test with others. Um but but you know, starting with like what's your filter criteria, how do you think about that? Right? So thinking, try you know, so it comes to pattern matching, it comes to does this help? And they all help. Like people aren't having dumb ideas who are reaching out to us. So how do you filter? How do you filter to what a good idea is in in your context, et cetera, becomes what's what's really important. So that's sort of how I'd open and then you know, and then balance, you know, what what's the benefit? Right. So what's the outcome that would be different if you pursued something? So, you know, and what's what do you think the relative cost to achieve is? And the there aren't there aren't flashbang simple things that give amazing outcomes. And and AI's pivoted at that. With less investment, we're getting sizable outcomes again. Um, but but legacy enterprises like banks have many, many, many, many systems with lots of integration points. And we need to bring all of that to life. You know, when a client signs onto our online banking platform, if they buy all our products, there would be over 10 books of records brought to life for them. You can't ignore one of them and have a great experience. So, so, so like respect that layer and then say, how do I bring that to life? And how do I make it, you know, you know, is it worth the investment across these things, knowing that we can move faster? Tools that we put in people's hands, like we haven't put tools in people's hands, you know, since Microsoft came out with Office. Right? That was the last big tools. And then we've iterated, but that was the last big tool set. Now we're giving everybody AI, and it's been fascinating to watch how they use it. But that's sort of the next function. I think the next thing is to now look at, you know, now say like how do we organize better around it? Like, you know, what work archetypes better benefit from what sort of patterns? And we'll we'll all do that work. Like everybody's that's not Novelle, everybody's doing that. But you know, but that how do I get a sense of the cost pain to implement versus what are the outcomes? And you know, the things that are gonna have the most meaningful change are actually gonna be hard to implement. Going to force us to reimagine our entire client journey and potentially merge journeys we'd never thought of merging, potentially, you know, bring, you know, bring a cross-platform offer to bear. Right. To, you know, you we have the ability to now start. Like how do you meet multiple, you know, how do you meet a client's needs, right? That sounds exciting. It is exciting. And um, you know, the other thing is how do you get everybody thinking like that? Um And we are, like that's you know, the you need to democratize that, you need to empower people, you need to let them reimagine, and you need to let them go do it. You don't need to check it every you know, every step. So that's that's what's exciting to me also is how differently we're going to have to work to deliver this at a pace that our clients are going to expect.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:52

Right, right, um So one final question. Iterate or disrupt?

SPEAKER_01 1:12:06

So I I think that's a very a very difficult balance. Um and there are reasons to do both. I think most of the time iteration leads to permanent long-term benefit. Um it respects the assets you have. If everything's disrupt, you you you don't get a chance to stabilize, you don't get a chance to anchor. Um, but there are times when you have to. And and I think knowing when to do which matters. But you know, in invest in what you have and optimize what you have, you know, is is never a bad idea. Disrupt needs to have outcomes that you couldn't otherwise attain. And they have to be sizable because the risks are sizable. And, you know, version one of AI is going to be iterate. We're just putting it in on our existing programs. Version two, like I say, will be reimagine journeys. I think version three is going to disrupt because I imagine, you know, and already you can see people prototyping new product. And but if you aren't good at the first two, like how do you know you can safely do number three? So getting ready for number three involves some experience and getting the chops, but I see a complete reimagination of how that works. Um, you know, and and some of our core tech won't be suitable, no matter what brilliant API layer you have. So so disrupt you know may cost more than I think people think as they do it, because you reimagine like a product set and reimagine how you assemble it as a singular capability. I I see like I see uh that's going to be disrupt, but you need a strong lens and a strong belief system and outcomes. Um and if you can get those outcomes by iteratively moving through your space, that's far safer. So like it would have to be outcome driven that you would take that out. Take that out. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:24

Okay. That makes sense. And what's one question you'd leave for the next guest?

SPEAKER_01 1:14:32

So that's interesting. Um I think for me it would be I'd say think of what you were doing and what your focus was and what you thought the world would look like five years ago. Based on where you are today. What does the world look like in five years? That's a good one.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:04

I like it. Thank you. Thank you. Dave, it's been a pleasure to have you here. Um love the authentic talk, uh, and also learning a little bit more about your professional, personal journey and how important it is to have them intersect with each other and what that does for our peers, our families, the future, the evolution, the growth of society as a whole. Um it's been a pleasure. Thank you, Dave. All right, thank you. To our audience, thank you for joining us in this first season of the Iteration Lab. As we bring this season to a close, I've been thinking about the stories we've been fortunate enough to bring you and the people behind them. Across the first set of conversations, a few themes kept showing up innovation, service, and the resilience to chart a path forward when the one in front of you isn't straight. We've heard stories about showing up for others, about building through uncertainty, and about finding purpose in moments that test you. Those ideas have stayed with me, and I hope they've stayed with you too. If this season gave you something to reflect on or helped you see things a little differently, I'd love for you to share these conversations so others can get something out of them as well. I hope you'll take a moment to like, comment on the episodes that most resonate with you, subscribe wherever you listen, and let us know what you're iterating on. Thank you for spending the season with us. We'll see you next time. Until then, keep moving the dumb.