Episode 8: Sacred Chickens Tried To Stop This War - The Punic Wars: Part 1

Rome doesn’t want a war with a sea empire, Carthage doesn’t want a land power breathing down its trade routes, and a crew of unemployed mercenaries decides to light the match anyway. From Massena and Syracuse to brutal attrition on Sicily, we follow the First Punic War as it spirals into naval innovation, massive battles, war elephants, and storms that kill staggering numbers of people. And yes, we end with one of the best cautionary tales in military history: when sacred chickens give a clear order, you follow.

If you like funny history with real stakes, subscribe, share this with a friend who loves ancient warfare, and leave us a review so more people can find the show. What’s the most unhinged decision in the story: the corvus boarding plank, the elephant comeback, or the chicken incident?

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Transcript

Three-Part History Comedy Kickoff

SPEAKER_01 0:00

This is gonna be a two-parter. Is that no?

SPEAKER_02 0:02

It's gonna be three.

SPEAKER_01 0:03

It's gonna be a three-parter. So it's gonna be three parts because I have two parts.

SPEAKER_02 0:07

And I have one.

SPEAKER_01 0:08

Because I talk a lot. Hey my doodle dandies. This is Kelsey, and I'm Sarah. And we're that's so macaroni. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:29

Just whatever you do, don't eat my fucking face.

SPEAKER_01 0:33

I'm getting hungry. We gotta go. So anyways, um just a quick cue. Uh have you heard of the Punic Wars before?

SPEAKER_02 0:47

No.

SPEAKER_01 0:48

Cool. Did you know that there was more than one?

SPEAKER_02 0:50

There's three.

SPEAKER_01 0:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:52

You know why I know that?

SPEAKER_01 0:54

Because I told you?

SPEAKER_02 0:55

No, because I had to do research on it.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

So yeah. There's uh there's more than one, which is not what I remember learning ever. Did you know that people don't learn about this? Yeah. Generally. That makes sense. I had no idea. We're in America. I thought that Hannibal was common knowledge. I just I didn't I didn't know. Anywho, so so um then I got to this. Also, things that are this far back are really hard for my brain to process.

SPEAKER_02 1:25

I mean, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:27

Really hard for my brain to process.

SPEAKER_02 1:30

I was talking to Joey about about it last night, and I was like, oh yeah, they're from like whatever 200 BCE. And he's like, what the fuck does that mean?

Rome And BCE Basics

SPEAKER_01 1:40

I'm glad that you asked that. I will I will explain. Because I was like, I don't think a lot of people know that. So, um, anyways, uh, where that's a macaroni. I think we know that already. I don't know if we put that in the beginning part. We're also everyone just like testing out different ways to start our podcast because uh we don't know what we're doing. So no, not even a little bit. Bear with us while we do this. Um doing our best. We might have had our intro before the music came on. We might not have. We might have decided we didn't like that. So, anyways, if we didn't put it at the beginning and we decide to never do that again, I'm Kelsey. I'm Sarah. And we're that some macaroni, the hilarious look at history podcast. So I'm gonna tell you today about the Punic Wars that took place between the Roman Oh, I put Roman Empire, and that's that's hilariously incorrect. Um, it's the Roman Republic. My dumbass knew that. Well, I put it and then and then like immediately changed to the Republic, um, because I figured out that I was wrong, but I did not change this one. Um, in the Carthaginian Empire, which took place before space and time can truly be understood, which is approximately between 264 and 146 BCE.

SPEAKER_02 3:03

I know what that means.

SPEAKER_01 3:04

I'm proud of you. Before Common Era?

SPEAKER_02 3:06

Yeah. Joey was like, why isn't it BC? And I was like, well, that's before Christ. We don't use that anymore.

SPEAKER_01 3:13

Yeah, I mean, like, it's a Latin for something, but like it's it means before Christ.

SPEAKER_02 3:17

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 3:18

And we're not doing that.

SPEAKER_02 3:19

No, we're not.

SPEAKER_01 3:20

So let me introduce you to our empires. We're gonna start with the Roman Republic because it's just more well known.

SPEAKER_02 3:28

It sure is.

SPEAKER_01 3:30

Um, so I misspelled and I put uh the Repubic of Rome.

SPEAKER_02 3:39

I had that problem when I was doing my research too. Did you put Repubic? No, there's just a lot of um like names, like main characters that start with P-U-B. So I that's how I read it every time. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:56

Yeah, so they let their bush grow out from 510 to 27 BCE, which was actually um, it lasted about as long as the Roman Empire did. So it was a system that worked better at least than the kings. Rome as a city-state began around 625 BCE, which is before Common Era, which is a long fucking time ago. Um, and as we keep going, BCE, when we talk about BCE, the current year, the closer it is to us today, is going to be a smaller number. So when I say that the Roman city-state began at 625 and the Republic started at 510, that's because 510 is later in time than 625. It's really confusing. So basically, yeah, they're like negative numbers that we as we work our way to zero. So yeah, the lower number will be closer to present time. Okay. It is it always trips me up. So from the establishment of Rome in 625 BCE to 510, when the Republic starts, is called the period of kings. There's no less than six kings during this period, and they oversaw the expansion of physical boundaries and trade routes and a military. However, the final king, Lucius Tarquinius Superbus, was superbly unpopular.

SPEAKER_02 5:26

Well, with a name like Lucius, that's not cool.

SPEAKER_01 5:28

I know. Such a lovely name.

SPEAKER_02 5:30

I actually really like that name.

SPEAKER_01 5:32

It was on my baby name list for boys. Yeah. I love it. I understand. Bringer of Lights, fantastic. Yeah. Um, but then he named I don't know like who named him Superbus, but um that seems like I think an overthink.

SPEAKER_02 5:47

But when I was doing my research, um a lot of like the Roman families at the time would use three specific names, and I'll get into it when I do my stuff.

SPEAKER_01 5:57

Sweet.

SPEAKER_02 5:58

Um, but then also when a general or whoever made like a significant impact.

SPEAKER_01 6:05

They added that to this name.

SPEAKER_02 6:07

Yeah, they would like change the name to represent like what they did for the country.

SPEAKER_01 6:13

They did that to one of the the leaders way later on, and I think I forgot to write it down because I was confused and just moved on with my life.

SPEAKER_02 6:22

Um I know exactly who you're talking about, because that I'm pretty sure that's who I did my thing on.

SPEAKER_01 6:26

No, it's a different guy.

unknown 6:27

We'll get there.

SPEAKER_01 6:28

Okay. Um who knows? Maybe you talk about him too, but I don't know we'll we'll get there. We'll get there. Okay. Um, anyways, so he was unpopular because he refused to bury his predecessor, who he murdered, by the way.

SPEAKER_03 6:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 6:39

Um makes sense. And then he also went on a murderous rampage through the Senate, killing all of those he suspected were loyal to his predecessor.

SPEAKER_02 6:47

Um who was his predecessor?

SPEAKER_01 6:48

Sorry, do you think that's what I'm saying? I don't remember. No. No, because so because it's so long ago and there were approximately six kings, maybe seven. It's not really quite clear. Okay. Um, to me. And as I don't generally study this far back, I was really lost as to what the f was going on here. So Okay. Um I'm not sure exactly who it was, so I left him out. But he killed the guy, and then killed everyone who liked him.

SPEAKER_02 7:15

Wonderful.

SPEAKER_01 7:15

Um, and he didn't take any advice of his counselors when he was judging criminal cases. So people were like, the fuck? We really don't like this guy, and he's a king, what are we gonna do about this? And then came piece of resistance. The final straw was when Tarquinius' son, Sextus Tarquinius, was sent on a military errand to Calatia. He was received by the wife of the governor, Lucretia, um, so kindly, and during the night, trigger warning, he snuck into her rooms and Rooms? Rooms.

SPEAKER_02 7:50

She had more than one room?

SPEAKER_01 7:52

Yeah, um, up until like very recently, like the governor, like the like noble people, people who had money. Yeah. Um, like you would have separate rooms from Joey, and you would have like your own like sitting room attached to your bedroom. So like that's where you would host women. Like you could host them in the salon, but there's also like you had your private rooms where you like you could host like more close events and stuff like that, and where you'd hang out during the day.

SPEAKER_02 8:20

That sounds wonderful.

SPEAKER_01 8:21

I know.

SPEAKER_02 8:21

Okay, sorry, continue.

SPEAKER_01 8:22

Just to be bothered by fucking no one. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:26

Anyway, trigger warning.

SPEAKER_01 8:27

Anyways, trigger warning, he sexually assaulted her. His mom? No, Lucia. Sex Sex Herquinius was sent on a military and an errand to Calatia. He was received by the wife of the governor there. Okay. Because the governor's out, but she's like, This is what we do, is we host people. I see. And he was like, Thanks for that. Um and then he was like, Let me just spoil this whole thing. So Lucretia told her father, who was a chief magistrate in Rome, and before many, many witnesses, relayed her horrible tale, and then stabbed herself in the chest. Seems dramatic. All witna all her witnesses were rightfully horrified and outraged, um, because oh my goodness. Yeah, that took a turn. Um, and Lucius Junius Brutus decided to open a debate as to maybe different modes of government for Rome. Um, things they could do instead of having a king whose son decides to do things like this and cause somebody to, you know, um, take their own lives in front of a room full of people. Um, they decided that it was going to be a republic. A republic is a mode of government in which the power is held by the people and they're elected or nominated representatives, and the head of state is not determined by lineage but by votes. Yes. Like individual votes.

SPEAKER_02 9:52

Yes.

How The Roman Republic Works

SPEAKER_01 9:53

Um, the Romans voted twice annually for magistrates who were called consuls. These consuls were often generals who were tasked with leading Rome's armies. However, when there was a military emergency um and a unity of command was necessary, Rome could appoint a dictator. The dictator could not hold supreme military power for longer than six months. So it was a temporary dictatorship, um, a state of emergency, basically, where they're like, we gotta just have one guy saying things.

SPEAKER_03 10:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:25

Um, then there was also a senate, who is an advisory council for the magistrates and the people. So there's two different popular assemblies: the centurion, who is military in nature, and the tribal assembly, which was a civilian assembly. Okay. So kind of like the House and Senate, they had limited power, they had the centurion, who was just really doing this one job of military stuff, and then they had the civilian population. Um, the centurion voted on war, elected magistrates that had military power, and the tribal that elected those magistrates who did not exercise military power. So the tribal handled most of the like legislating and public offenses, the day-to-day stuff. Okay. Um in 451 BCE, Rome wrote its first law code on twelve bronze tablets. That was called. Do you want to take a guess? You can do this.

SPEAKER_02 11:22

You put me on the spot and I panicked. Any guess? The tablets.

SPEAKER_01 11:26

Close. The law of the twelve tables.

SPEAKER_02 11:29

Uh makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 11:30

It covered things such as legal procedure, debt, foreclosure, paternal paternal authority over children, property rights, inheritance, funerary regulations, yada yada yada.

SPEAKER_02 11:40

Interesting. Okay.

Carthage Origins And Trading Empire

SPEAKER_01 11:41

By 338, the Republic had gained control over the entire Italian peninsula and was looking to expand their influence further out. And that's where the Roman Republic ran into conflict with the Carthaginian Empire. So, fun fact, Carthage is still around. Not the whole empire, but the city. It's now a residential suburb of Tunis, Tunisia, and was added to UNESCO's World Heritage Listing in 1979.

SPEAKER_02 12:08

That was a year after Brandon was born.

SPEAKER_01 12:10

Brandon, you're so You're older than Carthage being a heritage site.

SPEAKER_02 12:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:17

Hot damn.

SPEAKER_02 12:18

That's funny. God, I hope he likes it.

SPEAKER_01 12:20

Well, it was a light to live in black and white. He's gonna turn it off. Um, the Carthaginian Empire's hub may have been the city of Carthage, but it was powerful, influential, and far-reaching. According to the Carthaginians, Carthage was founded in 814 BCE by the Phoenicians of Tyre. Tyre. Not sure.

SPEAKER_02 12:43

Which is it T Y R E?

SPEAKER_01 12:45

Yeah, Tyr.

SPEAKER_02 12:46

I'm pretty sure it's Tyre.

SPEAKER_01 12:47

Okay. A city on the Mediterranean coast of South Lebanon and a major seaport for the Phoenicians from 2000 BCE to the Roman period. 2000 BCE.

SPEAKER_02 13:00

That's not real. It's that's not a real number. It's the Twilight Zone, I suppose. We're in 2000.

unknown 13:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:07

God, I wish it was the 2000s.

SPEAKER_01 13:09

Life was so thousand BCE?

SPEAKER_02 13:11

No. That's not a real time.

SPEAKER_01 13:15

Ah, I long for the easy times of BCE. We're pretty sure both of us would be dead very quickly. So quickly it would not survive. Um to like you have to do something. And I'm like, no. You have to walk a walk there. Ugh, walk. Like, I like walking, man. That is far. No. You can barely get me to walk now. I know. Ugh. So the Phoenicians were notable merchants and trade and a trade empire that had established itself by the second millennium BCE. My my brain is just like it was already a thing, and then it was like established by the second millennium, by 2000 BCE. It was like a thriving thing. So before that, they were doing. The fuck do you do before? Anyways, so Carthage. Um it was a founded it was it was a founded. It was founded according to unfounded to the Venetian tradition. Um in 1814 BCE. But the oldest archaeological data to date shows that it's um it's no older than the 8th century, which would be the 700s CE.

SPEAKER_02 14:25

That's still not a real number or time.

SPEAKER_01 14:29

And just so we know, that me that doesn't mean that the claim of 814 is wrong. It just remains unproven thus far. Like Troy was a myth until some crazy Englishman was like, I'm gonna dig up all of this shit, and then found Troy. And was like, see, not a myth after all. So we don't know what we don't know until we know, you know?

SPEAKER_02 14:49

Yeah, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 14:50

Um, Phoenicians were well known for being choosy with their maritime ports, um, which makes sense because they were they were trade people on the Mediterranean. Also, the Phoenician alphabet would become the basis for the Greek alphabet later.

SPEAKER_02 15:04

That makes sense. So is that where isn't that like where we get um what was it called?

SPEAKER_01 15:09

Numbers?

SPEAKER_02 15:09

No, no, no.

SPEAKER_01 15:10

No, that's that's the Arabic numbers, right? I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 15:13

What was that thing?

SPEAKER_01 15:15

No.

SPEAKER_02 15:16

It's gone. Maybe it'll come to me later.

SPEAKER_01 15:18

Yeah, no, it feels like it should be more familiar and I just don't know. So they get to this little peninsula in what is now Tunisia and see that has low hills and a lake that looks like it has like a small ocean inlet, so it's like kind of like a harbor, but it's more closed off. Um, anyways, it's a good place to anchor ships because it's protected from violent storms. And it jutted out into the Strait of Sicily, which meant that ships passing through had to pass by Carthage. So it like made this strait like very small, and they're like, hey, this is what a great place. We can like wave them down, set up shop, and have a wonderful maritime merchant port.

SPEAKER_03 15:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 15:59

Um, but you know, it's kind of far away, so they kind of like blossom into their own empire, separate from the Phoenicians, and eventually encompassed southern Spain, Corsica, Sardinia, and the western portion of Sicily, as well as ports along Africa's Mediterranean coast. I hope when I'm done with these notes, I'll be able to spell Mediterranean with the same ease I can now spell Albuquerque.

SPEAKER_02 16:24

I can't spell Albuquerque to save my life.

SPEAKER_01 16:26

I can now, because I had to spell it so many times for travel expenses for the university.

SPEAKER_02 16:30

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:31

I spell it out. So now I can I can I can't spell it like out loud, but I can write it down, okay. So, according to the Britannica entry, Carthage did not have much in the way of like culture compared to other classical societies. However, I have a few issues. So it was peopled by an established empire over a thousand years old at that point. They have something in the way of culture.

SPEAKER_03 16:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 16:56

Um, you just do. When you have that many people together, you have some sort of like culture of some sort. Um, it was initially thought that they didn't have literature, but they did have literature. It just happens that most of it was destroyed during the Punic War conclusion. Um, but some did survive. So there is literature, which is what they are considering culture. Um, and written language, um, and especially literature is like a culture, it's an artistic creation. So, and it had um an established religion that originated from Phoenician polytheism, so um, all cultural things. Apparently, that's part of their culture as well. So, Britannica can go fuck themselves on this part. Carthage prioritized fine products and quality manufacturing, um, advanced agriculture, thriving commerce, and a strong military. They produced, quote, finely embroidered silks, dyed textiles of cotton, linen, and wool, and artistic and functional pottery and perfumes. So they had artisans, cultural people who were skilled at working with ivory, glassware, wood, metal, and precious stones. So, wow, I don't let it go. Sounds like a thriving artistic culture to me, Britannica. Yes. Their agriculture was also highly advanced for the time. They had iron plows, irrigation, crop rotation, um, which we still don't we don't use now for healthier soil. Like we would plant corn on corn, on corn, on corn instead of rotating your crops to rejuvenate the soil.

SPEAKER_02 18:27

Um it's kind of like, you know, how you're supposed to use Gatorade to water your crops.

SPEAKER_01 18:32

Because plants love electrolytes. They sure do. That actually came from Carthage. They were like, you know what's missing? Electrolytes.

SPEAKER_02 18:40

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 18:40

They specifically love the lemon lime.

SPEAKER_02 18:43

Who doesn't?

SPEAKER_01 18:44

Me, I hate lemon lime. That's why I feed it to my plants.

SPEAKER_02 18:48

Jesus Christ. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 18:55

Well, howdy, doodle dandies. This is Connor, the editor, and I'm here with an editor's note. Kelsey and Sarah are making a reference to the movie Idiocracy. So if you don't already know, please do not water your plants with Power Aid or Gatorade or Electrolytes. It will cause damage. Please, for the sake of everything green, just use water.

SPEAKER_01 19:18

So, it's all very impressive. Um, but their commerce shows that they were that this was like by far their most important thing because it makes money. And they did it real well. Money, money, money, money, money. So, let me explain. Okay, there's too much? Let me sum it up.

SPEAKER_02 19:38

Princess Bride.

SPEAKER_01 19:39

Yes.

unknown 19:40

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 19:40

Thank you. Okay. Carthage depends heavily on their trade with the Iberian Peninsula, which is Spain and Portugal today. Uh, it's also called Hispania interchangeably throughout this time. Yes. So, for metals such as silver, lead, copper, tin, and ore, tin is essential for making bronze. And although it's no longer what's considered the Bronze Age by this point, which was, are you ready to know when the Bronze Age was?

SPEAKER_02 20:06

No.

SPEAKER_01 20:06

Great, because I'm gonna tell you. Are you 3300 to 1200 BCE?

SPEAKER_02 20:15

Look, I understand the like the earth is millions of years old, but I can't. I literally cannot.

SPEAKER_01 20:23

And so that's when they were working with bronze.

SPEAKER_02 20:25

But it is is it was bronze second place? Third place. Third place. So they're in third place? Yeah. Okay, got it.

SPEAKER_01 20:32

Alright. But bronze is still important at this point.

SPEAKER_02 20:34

So it is, yes.

SPEAKER_01 20:35

Um, it's actually so important that Carthage monopolized the trade of tin and wouldn't tell anyone where they got it.

SPEAKER_02 20:41

I would do the same thing.

SPEAKER_01 20:42

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 20:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:43

And because, like, that's how you make money. And they like money. Don't we all? Yeah, and they just do it super well, which I guess pisses everyone off. Um, so it's important. Carthage had sent caravans into Africa and Persia, which was the Middle East, and traded its manufactured and agricultural goods for salt, gold, timber, ivory, ebony, which is a dark-colored wood from tropical trees, by the way. Did you know that?

SPEAKER_02 21:10

Ebony. Ebony. No, I didn't.

SPEAKER_01 21:14

It's really pretty, actually. Like, it's a really beautiful wood. It's lovely.

SPEAKER_02 21:18

Is it still a thing? So, like, I could buy something with that specific type of wood?

SPEAKER_01 21:23

I have no idea if it's like protected like ivory is, but yeah, like it's a rule thing still. Um, they also got apes, peacocks, peacocks, peacocks? No! Do you know skins and hides?

SPEAKER_02 21:37

Do you know what a female peacock is called?

SPEAKER_01 21:39

A pea head.

SPEAKER_02 21:40

Why do you gotta take my shit away? Sorry. It's fine, continue. Rude.

SPEAKER_01 21:46

I meant lady peacock. So um in this trade market, uh Carthag Carthaginian merchants invented the practice of auctioning. So the the First auctions were in BCE.

SPEAKER_02 22:03

Were they like were they like how they are now, where they're like mla la la la la la la la.

SPEAKER_01 22:07

They actually had this guy with a southern accent and he was up there in cowboy hat and he was like, Oh, it's gonna twice oh! I knew it. It's exactly like that. It's exactly like the Grundy County auction, that song. Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:18

Wonderful.

SPEAKER_01 22:19

Precisely like that. And that's how it all came about. Um, Carthage got amber from Scandinavia. Um, he got tin, silver furs from the Celtiberians and Gauls, um, and Sardinia and Corsica produce gold and silver. So they got lots of rich ass shit. I wish I just like they're like, I know where to get all the fanciest shit that you're gonna need. And I'm not gonna tell you. I'm not gonna tell you. I'm gonna take over. Um, and then they also trade with spices. So trade, trade, trade. They were rich as fuck. You wanted something in the ancient world, they got it. Where do you go to ask? It's like Amazon of the ancient world.

SPEAKER_02 22:59

Amazon of the ancient world. Shut up.

SPEAKER_01 23:03

Do they have it? Yes, they do.

SPEAKER_02 23:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 23:07

Anyways, so I'll tell you, I'll tell you about the first Punic War in this part, and then we're gonna stop. Okay. Well, let's get there. Okay, so their military. The Carthaginian military is one of the largest in the ancient world, but their navy um was obviously predominant because the Mediterranean is where they do all their trade.

SPEAKER_02 23:25

So they have that big port.

SPEAKER_01 23:27

Yeah, so they're like their navy is pretty important.

SPEAKER_02 23:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:30

Um, but their land forces are also just as helpful for conquering people uh in North Africa and Southern Iberia, Hispania. Their military changed uh from a body of citizen soldiers into a quote multinational force composed primarily of foreign mercenary units. Carthage was almost always at war with the Greeks or the Romans, and here's where we get into the Punic Wars. Over a hundred and nineteen years, these Punic Wars happened from 265 to 146 BCE. There were three wars that began because Rome was trying to expand their empire onto the island of Sicily, which if you remember was partially under Carthaginian control. And that will simply not do. And a war, or three, must be had.

SPEAKER_02 24:18

Yes, that makes sense to me.

SPEAKER_01 24:20

Uh, fun fact Punic, the name of the wars, comes from a derivative of the word Phoenician in Latin. I can't find the exact site. Um, and I got tired of looking. So I'm not gonna break it down, but that's all you really need to all you really need to know. Cool, alright. You want to know more? Go find it. So, the first Punic Wars started because Rome just had to expand into Sicily and Corsica in 264 BCE. This is how it went exactly. Accurate record. Carthage was like, if you touch that again, I shall kill you right now. Do not touch this. This is a no-touching zone. And Rome's like, good, and reaches for Sicily. Carthage is outraged. Oh my god, I can't believe you reached across like that again. I can't believe it. Oh my god, I want to kill you right now. Do not cross this line. The record for this, um, I got, like I said, word for word, exactly how it happened from the 2009 film Ninth Museum 2, Battle of the Smithsonian.

SPEAKER_02 25:18

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 25:19

And it's just important to me that we know that this is actually fiction. Important to me that we know this. Because sometimes I say things and people believe me when I think I'm obviously joking.

SPEAKER_02 25:30

Who? Is it me? Is it me that's I'm the problem?

SPEAKER_01 25:33

It's everybody at some point or another. No, it's me. I'm the problem because I make everything sound convincing. And I'm like, no, why would that be a thing? I told somebody once, I think I told you the story, I told somebody once when I was like in fourth grade or something, that I was like raised by wolves, and I told you I thought nothing more of it ever again. She believed that until high school, and that's not her fault. Why?

SPEAKER_02 25:58

No, I get it, because I remember when I was younger, I told I forgot who I told, but I told somebody that Chester Bennington was my cousin. And that was it.

SPEAKER_01 26:07

Yeah, like I never thought of that again. Yeah. Because I was like, it's ridiculous. If I was raised by wolves, it would be quite clear. Um, yeah. And maybe, maybe she was like, Yeah, you seem like somebody who grew up in the wild. I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_02 26:22

That's hilarious.

SPEAKER_01 26:22

I hope that's she's like, Yeah, you seem uncivilized. That makes sense today.

SPEAKER_02 26:27

You fucking weird ass bitch. That makes sense.

Mamertines Drag Rome Into War

SPEAKER_01 26:29

She's like, track. So, I mean, maybe that's what it was, but yeah, I just need to make sure. Um, because yeah, I thought no more of that. Now I feel really bad. Sorry that I tricked you. Um so uh back in this time, there's not very many empires, um, there's more like city-states, and that's what these islands were made up of. Um, Sicily and Corsica. Um, oh I lost my place. Oh my god, figure it out. The two that really started the first Punic Wars were Messana and Syracuse, and it is, as most conflicts are, Messi. So there's this group of dude bros. Um they're mercenaries from Italy, but they are currently unemployed. Um, they call themselves the Mamertines or the Sons of Mars, which is fitting, I guess, because the Roman god of war is Mars, and here they are starting fights. So actually, when they come over to occupy Messana, which is now known as Messina, tomato tomato, who cares? Um They probably care. They probably care, but I don't. Um so they come over in the 280s, and like I said, they're unemployed, so they're just like a bunch of scrubs hanging out the side of their best friend's ride. Um, and they have too much fucking time on their hands. So they decide to take over the city, and that's why you can't give much men too much free time.

SPEAKER_02 27:50

Were they almost trying to holler at you?

SPEAKER_01 27:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:53

Sorry, it just took me a minute to remember the rest of the lyrics.

SPEAKER_01 27:56

It's okay. But they were. Yeah. And this is why you can't give men too much free time.

SPEAKER_02 28:00

It's true. Okay, that makes sense. Yeah, okay, not it.

SPEAKER_01 28:02

Must keep them employed in some sort of activity.

SPEAKER_02 28:04

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 28:05

Otherwise, look what happens. They take over cities and they start fucking wars. Um, the leader of Syracuse, whose name is Hero II, decided that enough was enough and tries to get them out in 265. Why did it take 15 years between when they decided to take over the city until when Hero is like, I hate this. I'm not sure. Maybe because they were still unemployed, maybe just they were just driving around hollering at ladies, and he's like, 15 years of this is far too much.

SPEAKER_02 28:29

I mean, I feel like one year would be far too much.

SPEAKER_01 28:32

Yeah, well, that's what the women try to say, just like um Josephine from the last episode did about the invention. She's like, I need you to pay attention. He's like, What if we tried a different way?

SPEAKER_02 28:40

And they're like, you know what? I'm just gonna do this on my own.

SPEAKER_01 28:42

You know what? For fuck's sake. And finally he listens. So 15 years later, he's like, no. And the Mamertines were like, oh no, help us, Carthage, you're our only hope. And Carthage sees this. And the strategic placement of Messina, which is on the northeastern coast of the island, which is not a place they currently have, um, it's another great place to control a narrow waterway, but this time it's between um Sicily and the mainland of Italy. For whatever reason, the Mamertines regret asking Carthage for help and ask Rome for help getting the Carthaginians out of Messina. Rome wasn't sure.

SPEAKER_02 29:17

I feel like you would want what how do you say Carthaginians?

SPEAKER_01 29:21

Yeah. Okay. Lots of practice.

SPEAKER_02 29:23

Yeah, when I was typing this, yes, okay.

SPEAKER_01 29:26

I sound crazy many times.

SPEAKER_02 29:27

Why wouldn't they want their help? They have like this huge fucking navy.

SPEAKER_01 29:31

They did want their help, but then they but then you know, they're just in the way. They wanted them to help and then like wave goodbye, you know, and not like stay. But they were like, no, we're staying, because we're the ones who won for you, you unemployed dirty bastards.

SPEAKER_02 29:48

That's weird.

SPEAKER_01 29:49

So then they're like, I don't like this.

SPEAKER_02 29:51

And like they're just hearers. And then they're like, Rome. You don't like being micromanaged? Is that okay? I see.

SPEAKER_01 29:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:58

Okay, yeah, got it.

SPEAKER_01 30:00

High quality men. So, um, so they asked Rome for help, and Rome was like, I don't know, man. Um, even though you guys are Italian and that's technically like all part of uh us now, um, you guys are pirates.

SPEAKER_02 30:16

Hold on.

unknown 30:17

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 30:18

Okay, hold on.

SPEAKER_01 30:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 30:19

So they don't want help anymore, but they're asking for help.

SPEAKER_01 30:23

They want so they don't want the Carthaginians anymore. They want them to go home. They were able to um beat back Hero of Syracuse and get him out and keep their Messina City. And Carthage is like, chill. Now we have kind of like an establishment here because we helped you with your shit and now you help us with ours, which means that we have a port here. And they're like, no, I don't want you to have a port here. And Carthage is like, you asked us to help. You asked us to participate, and this is kind of what we require now. And they're like, no, we don't like it. So they're like, Rome, help us get these guys out. So they're basically just like fucking around.

SPEAKER_02 31:01

Yeah, they are.

SPEAKER_01 31:02

Yeah, they're just up to some fuck shit.

SPEAKER_02 31:04

Are they about to find out?

SPEAKER_01 31:05

Um, you know, they just kind of like fade into the background. It's really obnoxious.

SPEAKER_02 31:10

That makes me right.

SPEAKER_01 31:11

Everyone else has to find out though. So Rome wasn't sure if they wanted to get involved in an international conflict on behalf of pirates. But but Carthage was too close to comfort, and Rome was greedy. So, how long could this war really take, anyways? Wars are usually super short and have hardly any loss of life.

SPEAKER_02 31:29

No.

SPEAKER_01 31:29

Just like a drop in the bucket. Like, that's how wars always go, you know?

SPEAKER_02 31:33

Yeah, it's like a day.

SPEAKER_01 31:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:34

And then it's over. And it's over. You know?

SPEAKER_01 31:37

It doesn't it doesn't take long. It definitely doesn't take what is it, 200 years.

SPEAKER_02 31:43

What is that? One war that's literally called like the hundred years war? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:48

Yeah, that's not real.

SPEAKER_01 31:49

They also have like the 30 years' war.

SPEAKER_02 31:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:51

They have like, we called them in years. However long they fucking lasted. Also, you know, World War I was supposed to be a GIF, too. Um, but no. False.

SPEAKER_02 32:00

Wars only last like a day and they're resolved very quickly.

SPEAKER_01 32:04

It's always really quick. You guys are just like, we'll you need to calm down. Bing, bang, boom. We come in, Carthage is gone. Yes. It's not gonna take long. Um, so the Roman consul, Appius Claudius Codex.

SPEAKER_02 32:17

Wonderful.

SPEAKER_01 32:18

Yes, invaded the island and marches to Masana. However, so somehow the Namertines were able to convince the Carthaginians to retreat to Syracuse. How? Who are these men? Maybe they really were the sons of Mars, how magnificently they managed to orchestrate this war. Is possible? Because they somehow were like, Carthage, run, Rome's coming, and Carthage was like, okay, we'll pull back to Syracuse, and they lost the town. Um, so both Carthage and Rome were certain that this war was not going to take long. I don't know what gives them this impression. I don't know what the rest of the wars in BCE look like, but I can't imagine that they were quick. Much of the fighting.

SPEAKER_02 32:57

Well, I mean, especially considering like they literally had to walk everywhere. I know! Like, we're gonna fight you, but we'll be there in 15 years.

SPEAKER_01 33:06

No, it's insane. You're like, oh god. Like, how do you not have like how do you stay so hyped and angry the entire fucking time? So you're like with too much time on their hands.

SPEAKER_02 33:17

There you go.

SPEAKER_01 33:18

They're walking and they're just getting more and more fucking pissed off because they only have like flat bottom sandals. There's no art support.

SPEAKER_02 33:23

No.

SPEAKER_01 33:24

Rock are getting in the candles.

SPEAKER_02 33:26

Fuck that.

SPEAKER_01 33:27

Can you imagine the blisters?

SPEAKER_02 33:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 33:29

I guess the kids you start to stay angry.

SPEAKER_02 33:32

It's it's yeah, it's coming together. I see it.

SPEAKER_01 33:35

I want to kill somebody now. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:36

My feet hurt.

SPEAKER_01 33:38

I understand.

SPEAKER_02 33:39

All of these people died following me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:42

Fuck you. I'm fighting you now. Alright. Everyone's bitching. I'm gonna murder somebody and it's gonna be you. They just have to wait for the crucial time to take it out on somebody. So most of the fighting took place on or around Sicily. And after literally crucifying the general who backed out of Messina, he just really liked to crucify people. I I wonder I wonder if this is like where Rome got the idea to crucify people because Carthage crucified the general who lost the initiative in Messina. Um I I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 34:15

It I maybe one of the like Carthaginian soldiers was like, actually, I'm over here now. Look at this really good idea.

SPEAKER_01 34:23

Like, you know what's a really fun way to kill and kill people? Crucifixion. Crucifixion. Yes. So yeah, they crucify him, and then Carthage begins to fight this war like they had fought the Greeks. Mercenary armies operate out of fortified towns and harass the Romans and their allies. Um, they basically just tuckered out their enemies and took advantage of the opportunities whenever it arose. Um, which is a defensive strategy that helped to preserve the status quo of Carthage in control. Um, but Rome was no longer a loose confederation of city-states like the Greeks were. The Romans were way more aggressive and more powerful than the Carthaginians were prepared for. So this little like tuckering out your enemies thing was not going to work quite as well.

SPEAKER_03 35:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 35:11

In 262 BCE, the Romans sacked the southern city of I believe in you. Aggregatum? Sure. Which is now known as Agrigento. Wonderful. Which is another Uniseco world site, as of 1997, which is younger than us.

SPEAKER_02 35:29

Fuck, we're old.

SPEAKER_01 35:30

I know. I was telling my kids about how the apartheid didn't end until our lifetime. And I look at all of them and I'm like, my life.

SPEAKER_02 35:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:38

Not yours. You weren't even here for 9-11. And they're like, what was it like? And I'm like, oh my gosh, gather around children to the fireplace.

SPEAKER_02 35:45

I'm still mad at your child. When he came home that one day and he was like, Have you guys heard of 9-11? And I was like, get the fuck away from me. I watched it on TV. Thank you. Anyway.

SPEAKER_01 36:00

So after that happens, after they take down Agrigento, which is the modern name and much easier to pronounce, um, this leads Carthage to only hold the very western side of the island. So they used to have most of the island except for like the very east, and now they have just barely the west. The rest being kind of like in flux, who's in control? Rome, Carthage, who knows? Turns out it's not actually a short war. It's kind of like 23 years.

SPEAKER_02 36:31

Makes sense.

Rome Turns War Into A Navy

SPEAKER_01 36:32

Um, totally unexpected. Um, there was another thing that the Carthaginians did not see coming, and that was that Rome decided to build a naval fleet that could rival their own.

SPEAKER_02 36:43

Wonderful.

SPEAKER_01 36:44

At some point early in the war, a Carthaginian Quincorim. Yes. Yep. Which is a boat, um, ran aground near Masana, and the Romans took advantage of the gift that had landed in their laps. They essentially reverse-engineered the ship to build their own fleet.

SPEAKER_02 37:01

But autism isn't real.

SPEAKER_01 37:02

No. No, it was not.

SPEAKER_02 37:05

Got it. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 37:06

This is called a passion. Ah. Passion of theirs. Okay, sure. The Quincarim is an ancient warship propelled by oars. The name literally means five oars, but it's probably more like there were five men, two in ore, because there's like oars coming out all over the place. Or five, like as opposed to five ore banks.

SPEAKER_03 37:26

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 37:26

Um, because you've got to like move your ass.

SPEAKER_03 37:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 37:29

So you want to go somewhere, you put more ores. Um, the ship that you see, um it is low and long and has a bunch of ores sticking outside.

SPEAKER_02 37:38

It's kind of like I know exactly what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_01 37:41

Okay. Yeah. I was gonna say it kind of like reminds me of like what people imagine like a Viking long ship to look like. Yeah, yes, kind of like that. But the Romans knew that they were lacking one thing. Even if they could build the boats, they did not have proper seamanship. They have no fucking idea what they're doing on the water.

SPEAKER_02 37:58

But if they build them, they will they only dog paddle. Two different movies of this. I love it. All right.

SPEAKER_01 38:06

So they had to grow this. They have all these boats that are just like backing up, and they have no understanding of how to fight with their new toys, but they got them. Got them. Um, what they do know is how to fight in close quarters, so they come up with something to help them uh fight hand-to-hand on boats. It's called the Corvus. It's a four-foot-wide and 36-long plank with a hook on the end to hang onto the other boat. Um, it's a plank. Okay. Um, so they would tip it over and the hook would grapple onto the end of the enemy ship, and then they would run across it and just shank them real quick. Um Okay. And since Carthage is used to being a naval power with traditional naval tactics, um, so Carthage is usually, you know, they they use traditional naval tactics, um, which is not running across a board and shanking somebody. Uh this comes as a surprise. Additionally, their land armies less viciously. They're in the money-making business. Um, and in order to do that, it's better if you don't kill everybody. So they are a lot less vicious and more of kind of like um a subduing force.

SPEAKER_03 39:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:14

What they wanted to take over and make money. They don't want to fucking kill everybody. So this new development came as a surprise. Um, and Rome won its first major naval battle in 260 BCE at the Battle of Melee on the northern coast of Sicily. Only four years later, in 256 BCE, is what is considered one of the largest naval battles of history. I saw the largest, I saw one of the largest, I saw the largest in the ancient world. They also have varying numbers of how many people were actually participating, so it is one of the biggest, and that's what we need to know. Okay. Rome has a fleet of 330 warships. Remember that they got this technology like five fucking years ago. The amount of people that fight and die in this war is baffling. I don't I did this all come from. I don't know. I don't know. I have no fucking clue. It is b that this is part of what baffles me about BCE. Is I'm like, I'm sorry. How are there that many people? How are there that many people to do this? How do you have that many people to still be a country and to send this many people off to die in a war? How is this a thing? Um so they have 330 warships, and they just got this technology not that long ago, and they transport 26,000 legionnaires from Sicily, commanded by Marcus Attilus Regulus, and I'm so proud of myself, and Lucius Maneluius Volso.

SPEAKER_03 40:43

Yes, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 40:44

Uh, and they plan to land in Tunisia and sack Carthage. That's what they're gonna do. Um, so just to appreciate the speed and efficiency with which the Romans built their fleet, the war started in 264 and 256, just eight years later, they had 330 ships. So starting from the bottom of never knowing what a fucking boat looks like, to having 330 warships. Pretty impressive. Um, and and they were still using ships to fight in the meantime, like they didn't build this up by itself, they were inevitably sinking ships, and somehow these motherfuckers were working around the clock to just churn them out so that they still had 330 specifically to go to Africa.

SPEAKER_02 41:26

My brain just like can't wrap around the fact.

SPEAKER_01 41:30

What were they on? What were they on?

SPEAKER_02 41:32

Myth? No.

SPEAKER_01 41:34

It's insane.

SPEAKER_02 41:35

They had some good shit though.

SPEAKER_01 41:36

But they must have.

SPEAKER_02 41:37

Like, maybe they had Adderall, and we just don't know.

SPEAKER_01 41:40

We lost a lot of knowledge with the burning of I mean, Britannica is like, there was no culture, bitch. They have literature. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up! So, anyways, back to the war. Carthage hears about the Romans coming, and they rally 350 of their own ships. So, with the forces they mustered, there's a total of 680 warships out there, 290,000 sailors and marines engaged in a naval combat. Um, Rome won, and they landed on Episus Tunisia, which is evidently a dead name for the city of Calybia. Okay. Uh in Tunisia, and it's like really, really pretty. I looked at pictures, it's beautiful. Okay. We should vacation there. And from 256 to 255, the um they ravaged the countryside. Rome just goes hog wild. Um, they advanced within 10 miles of Carthage, and then Carthage is just like, okay, sue for peace. But Rome is extremely punitive. Um that's all I can find. They're extremely punitive. Okay. And they were like, we want a bunch of shit that you're not willing to give. And so Carthage was like, okay, well then I guess we're not gonna be peaceful. And they hire a Spartan general, Xantithippus.

SPEAKER_02 42:53

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 42:53

That's what it is.

SPEAKER_02 42:54

Uh that's what I'm gonna name my first child.

SPEAKER_01 42:56

X-A-N-T-H-I-P-P-U-S. Xanthipius, Zanthius. Xanthithipius. Don't hire. Anyways, they hire the Spartan to help them. Um, why did I write his name again? The Spartan lures lures Regulus into battle on open ground, uh, where Rome was extremely unprepared. Carthage may have different infantry tactics, but their cavalry was unrivaled at the time. Partly, I think, because they had war elephants. They sure did. So these war elephants were super intimidating looking. Um, if you have seen Lord of the Rings, which I hope you have, um, if you're listening to us, I really hope you have.

SPEAKER_02 43:34

I was gonna say, um, if you haven't, go away, but please actually don't go away.

SPEAKER_01 43:38

Don't go away. Just go watch it. Like come back. Like, I don't want you to leave. I want you to watch the movies. But like they're fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 43:47

You can't just start with the extended versions though. Like that might be. No, you have to use yourself with the theatrical versions. Yeah, so just start with the first one and then come back to us.

SPEAKER_01 43:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:57

Um, and only come back with good things to say. I don't care for your negativity. So um you can pretty fairly and safely compare the oliphants from the second movie that they see to war elephants. Um they look pretty similar and I know it's annoying but I'm not going to elaborate on the elephants yet. More to come in the second war because I know we talk about them a lot. Excuse me. What you need to take away from this current battle is that the Romans engaged 15,000 men in this battle and that only 2,000 survived to be evacuated. 13,000 people were killed. So the consul Regulus was captured and tortured to death um to death to death. And on its way home to regroup in Italy the evacuation fleet was mess met with a disastrous storm sinking most of the remaining ships and taking an additional 90,000 men with them. I only 2,000 survived so they like packed over 80 sod my brain just like can't comprehend that there were that many people to die and continue to do this shit.

SPEAKER_02 45:03

Well yeah like first of all I can't comprehend like the time frame. But then how were there like when I think of like ancient times I'm feeling like there's like 200 people maybe in each town.

SPEAKER_01 45:16

Yeah it feels very rural to me um and this is not rural.

SPEAKER_02 45:20

But maybe that's just because um we're Americans and we don't understand anything past like yeah I also think I also think I mean like I don't know how it is in the rest of the world but like our world history is very Eurocentric.

SPEAKER_01 45:34

And well yeah because yeah we don't talk about the fact that there's all of these things like like huge civilizations prior to like even like the civilizations that were in this continent we still don't like you know yeah yeah like if it's not white and it's not from like 1400 till now like it's a very narrow scope. Yeah very narrow scope at least for us here. Weird anyway rest of the world chime in. So but don't worry although they just lost so many people a war of attrition on Sicily would still be just fine. How they have any more people things to put into that I don't understand. Carthage was having some success in retaking the island for a while but once Rome got back on her feet they were pretty they pretty quickly recaptured most of Sicily in 253 they sent their brand spank and new fleet of ships to raid the Libyan coast. Um things are really looking up watch out Carthage except for oh no wouldn't you know it another storm a hundred and fifty Roman ships and sixty thousand men were lost. We just built these things brand spank and new still smell the sawdust dead so fucking weird. There was only one thing that seemed to keep these fucking Romans at bay and that was the elephants. Carthage casually just ships a hundred war elephants to Sicily to remind Rome of one of the worst days of their lives.

SPEAKER_02 47:02

I mean if I saw fucking like a hundred elephants charging at me I would I would be like and we're done I'm out with like armor and shit yeah I mean even without armor it it wouldn't take much I'd be like terrified.

Sacred Chickens And The Peace Deal

SPEAKER_01 47:14

So um it would take another two years for Rome to stop rocking in a corner at the loss of their brand new navy and the reemergence of war elephants. Q Gandalf reading from the book in the minds of Moria But make it elephants trumpeting you've been this entire time Gandalf ding in the deep we cannot get out of the way they're stampeding they have a cave trouble. I would like to end the first Punic War with an antidote in which the author of one particular article opens with this timeless line. Quote If I were a chicken I would consider the modern crop of humans to be an irreverent lot. What if I were a chicken I would consider the modern crop of humans to be an irreverent lot. So in ancient Roman times there was a s there were special sacred chickens who were consulted habitually on important matters of state. Mostly you would ask a chicken a yes or no question. If they ate it was a yes if they did not it was a no if they thought about eating it was like asking later ancient magic eight ball if you will chickens so where do these chickens come into play at the end of the first Punic War? Thank you for asking um in 249 BCE a console name can you please? Yes I'm a mature adult human. No you're not Claudius Polter asked the sacred chickens of his naval fleet what they thought about his idea to launch a surprise attack against the Carthaginian fleet anchored at the harbor of Drapana off the west coast of Sicily. The chickens did not eat clearly stating they thought it was a dumb idea. Rome lost two whole fucking fleets already and these chickens were not about to be part of a third. Polter was unamused with his magic chickens and said Since they do not want to eat let them drink pearl them in the ocean. I know very Marie Antoinette but maybe he really didn't say it either but what he really did do was he chucked the chickens in the ocean. Um so whether or not he said those words what his action said was fuck these chickens. As it would turn out the chickens were actually messengers for the gods because he got his ass kicked by the Carthaginian Admiral Ed Erbal.

SPEAKER_02 49:29

Yeah you should probably listen to the chickens. That's how I'm gonna do everything in my life now. Can I borrow a chicken? Which one? Which one do you think would be best to help my dumbass? Um I think Blossom would be the best. Okay. I will be going to her before I make any decision ever.

SPEAKER_01 49:47

Like you can't trust Francine because Francine just wants food all the time.

SPEAKER_02 49:50

Well maybe I do because I also want food all the time.

SPEAKER_01 49:53

Yeah but you don't want a false prophet you know who's just like whatever I'm gonna eat something you're like well the chicken said yes Francine said I should do this. Francine always says yes. You shouldn't always listen to Francine.

SPEAKER_02 50:03

We'll see.

SPEAKER_01 50:04

Maybe I'll ask both ask the whole flock of chickens. Yes. Um so he gets his ass kicked he loses 93 of his 123 ships I wrote shits and I was like he lost his shits like that is is he okay? Like that's a lot of shit the chickens were like please don't go you're gonna have like that was not good gruel last night.

SPEAKER_02 50:27

You're gonna have such bad diarrhea this is like food poisoning on the next level my dude don't don't go you're not gonna have a good time.

SPEAKER_01 50:33

So he lost 93 of his 123 ships and 2000 men. How do they have this many men to lose a few days later another Roman fleet loses 120 ships and 800 transports off of the eastern coast of Sicily to a storm. Listen to the fucking chickens folks. Yeah the war in Sicily is a stalemate Hamilcar bar um Barca, a Carthaginian general waged guerrilla war tactics um against the Romans but everyone's really fucking tired and quite frankly getting bored. So the war comes to an end in 241 BCE. Carthage surrenders Sicily and neighboring islands um and releases Roman prisoners without ransom in fact Carthage pays 3,200 talents which is about a hundred tons of silver which is about 1416150 dollars today. Interesting okay I looked up the conversion of what silver is worth I figured you did. Uh crazy that they did that but they just really wanted this to be over with and they had money at least until they paid 100 they don't have until they paid 3200 downs and now they're really poor. So in the end Rome lost over 600 ships 5000 Roman citizens and 35000 allies. Carthage lost at least 500 ships total debt is not listed but they also were bankrupt after this war which is a long way to fall from the wealthiest uh empire to losing territory and a ton of money. Yeah um I cannot believe how many people died because my brain can't even comprehend a realistic way BCE had that many people the fact that there were enough people to kill them off en masse like that and still have a society. I don't my brain no no no no and they and they still had like a thriving like how was that not like how did you not just like annihilate the entire population it makes no sense to me.

SPEAKER_02 52:37

I don't get it.

Hannibal Tease Plus Reviews And Stories

SPEAKER_01 52:38

Um so this is where I'm gonna leave you today. We'll pick up with the last two wars next time um starting with the second Punic War and talk about the famous general Hannibal and dig into war elephants in more detail don't worry I don't really dig into Hannibal mostly just what he does. I dig into Hannibal just so just so you know I mostly just go into what he does throughout Italy. That's fine. I don't really talk about him very much and we'll talk about war elephants in a little bit more detail. I'm excited to talk about this one because I didn't actually know that there were three wars and I had only heard about the second one because I really really love what Hannibal does in the second war and I can't wait to talk about it. But I also I'm really glad that there is this war because without this war we wouldn't have prophetic foul. Um and I really respect my chickens a lot more now in their opinions on things my true connection to the gods. Even though they're not laying right now yeah they're gonna go meet the gods very fucking soon if they don't start producing some fucking eggs. Lazy bitches um do you know how expensive eggs are I have to go purchase eggs like a peasant lay your delicious eggs you bitches I'm I I told Dana I was like if they don't fucking figure it out at least by spring I'm sending them off.

SPEAKER_02 53:58

They're gonna go live somewhere else to the farm I I am where my hamster is yes I don't know why my hamster is at a farm you've never heard of a hamster farm?

SPEAKER_01 54:10

Oh it's great they have tunnels everywhere um tunnels up in the clouds it's a wonderful place uh so eggs anywho thanks for tuning in please like this episode yeah also um I rem I'm like remembering all of these things I'm like oh yeah this is how you get people um to like you to like you and to reach further so please like this episode leave nice comments and reviews only um I don't want to hear any negativity or care just kidding um kind of kind of kind of just kidding um anyways follow our Instagram which is that's so mac underscore podcast yes and send us your stories um your personal stories your town stories your favorite history stories and any suggestions you have to our email that's so macaroni podcast at gmail dot com and we will see y'all next time for the rest of the Punic Wars and a deep dive into the generals. Yeah thanks y'all bye bye now