Episode 16: Who is Harvey Milk - Part 2

A toucan named Bill, a camera shop on Castro Street, and a man who keeps running for office until the city can’t ignore him anymore. We tell the long, messy, human story of Harvey Milk and how he forged unlikely alliances to become an elected San Francisco supervisor pushing for real LGBTQ rights and anti-discrimination change. Along the way, we don’t skip the hard parts: the secrecy, the chaos in his personal life, his wildly inappropriate relationships, and the brutal end to his time in office

Content Warnings: 

• Police Brutality
• Illicit Relationships with Minors
• Homicide
• Suicide

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Transcript

Toucan Bill And Relationship Recap

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Uh, let's talk about the milkman.

SPEAKER_01 0:02

The milkman.

SPEAKER_02 0:03

The last I remember was he had. Hold on. First of all, hi, I'm Sarah. We did this already. It's in our intro. I don't know why you gotta be a dick about it. And I'm Kelsey.

SPEAKER_00 0:16

Hey my doodle dandies. This is Kelsey. And I'm Sarah. And we're that so macaroni. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:31

Last thing I remember was he was asking his partner Joe if he ever thought about moving out and taking their parrot named Robert after his brother with him. That wasn't the parrot's name. What's the parrot's name?

SPEAKER_01 0:44

Hold on, let me look. I have to go back up. Oh, it's a toucan and his name is Bill. My bad. How dare you?

SPEAKER_02 0:55

I got his brother's name wrong too. No, his brother's name is Robert. I named the parrot, which is actually a toucan. After his brother. I did not. Anyways, a toucan named Bill. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:11

Like Bill the Pony. Who's that? Lord of the Rings. Oh. See, I just went straight to Parks and Rec and I was like, that's not his name. Uh okay. Yes. So yes, he was with Joe. And he was like, hey man, uh, do you ever think about moving out?

SPEAKER_02 1:33

And Joe and Joe's like, no. Oh, I was thinking not.

SPEAKER_01 1:38

Actually. But I guess I can. Like, what the hell? So after that.

SPEAKER_02 1:43

Justice for Joe. I would not be friends. What? Oh, you're unplugged. By the way, your dad says that's revolting.

SPEAKER_01 1:50

Alright. Well, it's back on.

SPEAKER_02 1:52

What the fuck happened?

SPEAKER_01 1:53

This is why we can't have nice things.

unknown 1:55

The ghosts.

SPEAKER_01 1:56

Alright. Nobody pay any attention to the ridiculous amount of cords that I have connected to my computer. Um, okay. So fix this and click so I can still see. Okay. Okay. Uh, so yeah, so Joe moved

Craig Rodwell Pushes Public Pride

SPEAKER_01 2:16

out. Uh this was his longest relationship. Um, and then just to recap, Harvey Milk um was one of the first openly gay politicians in San Francisco. Um, and I know that this is gonna come out after June is over, but I mean we celebrate pride all the time.

SPEAKER_02 2:35

So all year round.

SPEAKER_01 2:37

Yeah, so we we don't really care. Uh anyway. All right, so Harvey's next relationship was with Craig Rodwell. He was 10 years younger than Harvey. Uh, they had a good relationship, but Harvey just couldn't get over Joe. Yeah, so I have a question. How old is how old is Harvey at this point? Shit. Sorry. 1962. Uh he was in his 30s. Okay. I'm thinking because he was born yeah, he was born in 1930, so he's 32.

SPEAKER_02 3:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 3:10

That's how math works.

SPEAKER_02 3:11

That sounds good. And so then Craig is 22.

SPEAKER_01 3:15

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 3:16

Which is it's okay. It's just Harvey's type, I think. Which is better than what you told us last time. Barely 19-year-old. With that and how both of them had these Oh, traumatic introductions. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:35

Mm-hmm. To human sexuality. Ugh. It's gross. I hate it here. Anyway. Um, yeah, so they had a good relationship, but Harvey couldn't ever get over Joe. Like it was pretty rough. Um only Joe wasn't thinking about moving out. I know that son of a bitch. Um, Craig also was very outspoken about gays being like having equal rights, which landed him in jail a few times. Sacrifice. I get it. Yeah. Sometimes you have to go to jail to fight for your right to exist. Um, there's a fucking fly in here. Okay. I just saw it whiz past. Sorry. Sorry, everyone. There's a fly. Um scared me. Sorry. I'm scared. Sorry. Uh he even tried to be more affectionate and like hold hands with Harvey like in public. Um, but Harvey didn't want his sexual sexuality to be out in public yet. So just because it's still Gemini season. Such a problem, man.

SPEAKER_02 4:35

Like, for real. It's not Gemini season. Wait, what? Where are we? Cancer now, I think. Yeah. We're in cancer. Are you sure? Pretty positive. Are you fucking with me right now? What day is it? It's 28th. 29th? Oh.

SPEAKER_01 4:50

Late 20s. Oh, yeah, you're right. Oh, wait, no. Yeah, you're right. Sorry, it's cancer season.

SPEAKER_02 4:57

Sarah's a cancer, right?

SPEAKER_01 4:58

Yes, Sarah's a cancer. Not me. I'm not a cancer. Um, it's another Sarah. Another Sarah. You'll meet her someday. Um, what did I say? What was I saying? Um it's cancer season? I don't know. It is cancer season. Uh oh, Craig. Okay. Craig, that's right.

SPEAKER_02 5:12

Not not the cancer.

SPEAKER_01 5:13

Yeah. Uh Craig was very outspoken, you know, fighting for his equality, and Harvey was still like, huh, I don't know about that. Um, so Craig even tried to convince him to be openly out and proud, but Harvey didn't want to upset his parents. But like we said last time, Mama Minnie. Mama Minnie definitely knew her son owns a toucan named Bill with his roommate. And she made them matching Afghans and like booties. I think she knew. I think Mama Mini knew. I think Mama Mini knew, yeah. Um, so Craig joined a group called the Matachine, which you had mentioned.

SPEAKER_02 5:57

Yeah, the Matachine Society, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:58

Yep. Uh so it's named after an Italian Maticinos. Um, it's a court jester who behind a mask would speak truths to rulers at the time. Oh, hell yeah, cool. Yeah, so that's where that came from. Um yeah, so he joined the Matachine Society. It was New York's only gay group at the time. Um, he put out flyers of upcoming events in boxes of apartments that had two male names on them, because they probably just roommates happen to own a cat together.

SPEAKER_02 6:30

It's a two can, actually. Um or some other sort of animal exotic pet.

SPEAKER_01 6:36

Yeah. Um so Harvey didn't like this. He said it would make people paranoid that everyone knew they were gay, which I can like I can understand, but at the same time, like, if they are gay and they're receiving like a flyer for something with supports, what are you drinking? What is that?

SPEAKER_02 6:56

Um, it's called Corpse Survivor. It's an electrolyte beverage. It's perfectly pear-flavored.

SPEAKER_01 7:00

Can I smell it?

SPEAKER_02 7:02

Yeah, you can taste it if you want to. It's really actually pretty good. Well, I have to smell things before I taste them because you know. Where did you get it? Um, I got it from Miss Fitz Market, that um online grocery thing where they sell you slightly dinged up stuff that maybe the um grocery stores wouldn't sell, like if the strawberries are funny looking or funny shaped. I don't like it. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_03 7:29

Put that right there. Put it closer. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 7:32

I'm gonna stick with my super unhealthy Red Bull. Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_02 7:37

This only contains 3% juice. But we have so many good electrolytes. Plants love elect plants don't love us.

SPEAKER_01 7:44

Plants Connor, don't kill us.

SPEAKER_02 7:46

Connor, don't kill me.

SPEAKER_01 7:47

I'm sorry. I got a new um, I got a new flavor. It's rainbow sherbet. You want to try? Sounds like something I'll hate.

SPEAKER_02 7:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:00

You don't like it? You don't like sherbet? And yes, friends, it is sherbet, not sherbet.

SPEAKER_02 8:08

Sherbet your ass. That's disgusting. It's so sweet. I can just it's it's like in my nose.

SPEAKER_01 8:17

That's crazy. Because that tastes like ass.

SPEAKER_02 8:21

That tastes like ass.

SPEAKER_01 8:22

Your face is ass. Can you tell that we actually love each other?

SPEAKER_02 8:30

You like the honeydew one? Yeah, it is not nearly that. That's just like sugar. It's still here.

SPEAKER_01 8:39

Uh don't send my Red Bull, that'll knock it out. No. All right. Well, this is why we can't have nice things. Um Right, Craig is making gaze paranoid. Right, okay. I did not take my meds today, so this is gonna be fun. I am inside. That's okay.

SPEAKER_02 8:59

I kind of forgot how I'm supposed to put these two things together.

SPEAKER_01 9:02

Who are you making that for?

SPEAKER_02 9:04

Me! Ah, okay. So no one who's gonna mind if it's fucked up. I see. That makes sense. That's fair. I'm just gonna undo everything I just did and we're gonna try doing something different.

SPEAKER_01 9:13

Here for it.

SPEAKER_02 9:14

I need to move this thing.

SPEAKER_01 9:15

That's right.

unknown 9:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 9:16

Sorry everyone, this is what happens when I don't take my meds. Um, okay. Cool. Craig is making people paranoid. Right.

Arrest, Fear, And A Sudden Ghosting

SPEAKER_01 9:25

Um, so their relationship began to fade, especially after an incident where Craig was arrested for um incident exposure and inciting a riot it a riot. Indecent exposure. Thank you. I can't fucking see or read. It's too late to take my meds. I can't do it now. We're we're all fucked.

SPEAKER_02 9:48

It's an incident exposure.

SPEAKER_01 9:49

It's an incident where things were exposed.

SPEAKER_02 9:53

He's working for Osha.

SPEAKER_01 9:55

I see an incident happening. I literally typed incident. That's funny. They are here.

SPEAKER_03 10:01

They're here. No? Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:07

I thought haunted mansion.

SPEAKER_03 10:09

Hmm.

SPEAKER_02 10:09

I can see that too. Um, so great, except for that fucking ghost. Or not ghost, fuck clown.

SPEAKER_01 10:16

Yes, the clown. Yes, the clown. Um, so he was arrested for an incident of exposure. I'm just kidding, for indecent exposure and inciting a riot. Um the police targeted a gay section of Reese Park um and used an old law to enforce that men wear super long trunks out in public. Oh, okay. Like swim shorts.

SPEAKER_02 10:40

Um, Craig said like swim onesies that they used to wear in the early 1900s. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:46

I love it. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 10:47

Um, Craig said it was a crime against homosexuals, um, which I mean, yeah. Because remember in the first episode, we talked about how there were people in Central Park, like straight men that had their shirts off, but all the gay men got arrested. Yeah. Yeah. So 100% Craig was right there. It's Hoochie Daddy season. Um anyway, so yeah, they arrested him. Uh the judge dismissed the riot charge um and was going to dismiss the indecent exposure charge until Craig said it was an injustice to homosexuals. So the judge didn't like that. Uh, he spent three days in jail. And when he came out, Harvey was terrified because they had shaved his head, essentially branding him, and he was afraid people were going to think that he was gay since he was associated with Craig. So, like, they shaved Craig's head in jail to brand him. And now that he's out, Harvey's like, oh my god, everyone's gonna know. And then they're gonna think that I'm gay. But babes, you are. Um that's that's awful. It is awful. Um, so I remember at the end of the last episode, you're like, does Harvey get any better with his partners? And I was like, uh. And you went, we'll see you next time. Bye. Um, so anyway, after that incident, Harvey pretty much ghosted Craig, and that's how the relationship ended. What's his sign again? When was his birthday? Who? Harvey. May.

SPEAKER_02 12:22

He's a he's a Gemini. He's a oh, okay. You know, the I was just like the ghosting, you know. Yeah. And the uh have you ever thought about moving out? Have you ever thought about not being here? Thought about, you know, finding a new place to live. Getting the fuck out.

SPEAKER_01 12:42

What particularly? Um, so after he ghosted Craig and was just like a super douche about it and not supportive at all, uh, in 1963 he met John

Jack McKinley And A Troubled Home

SPEAKER_01 12:55

Jack McKinley. You want to guess how old this person was? 20. Nope. Older or younger?

SPEAKER_02 13:02

Oh, okay. 17. Close. 16?

SPEAKER_01 13:07

Harvey. God. He was 16. Um, Harvey is 33 at this time. Okay, for God's sake, dude. Um so Jack, I'm gonna call him Jack because that's what everyone calls him. Uh, Jack had moved to New York for the gay scene he had heard of. He will touch you. That's wildly inappropriate.

SPEAKER_02 13:30

Away, Tim.

SPEAKER_01 13:31

Put Tim over there for right now. You need to stop it uh over there. Um, he moved in quickly with Harvey. They got a dog.

SPEAKER_02 13:40

A Bichon.

SPEAKER_01 13:41

No, I don't know what kind of dog it is. Uh, or maybe I do. Um, they got a dog named Trick and a cat named Trade, and they settled into middle class marriage, quote unquote.

SPEAKER_02 13:53

But I'm not gay.

SPEAKER_01 13:54

No. I would I really do wish I knew what happened to that toucan. I'm hoping Joe took it.

SPEAKER_02 14:00

Um I hope so too.

SPEAKER_01 14:01

So Harvey got a new job as a researcher in the information center of Bach and Company. Um, it's a Wall Street investment firm. Uh, he was able to keep his sexuality secret from everyone at the company except for one person. His name was Jim Burton, and they actually became really good friends after this. Uh, Jim Burton was a vice president, and Harvey had approached him about opening an account as a guardian for a younger man who was in his ward. Jim immediately called him out and was like, uh what? That's a load of crap. What what a way to say like a he said that's crap. You want to open an account for the boy you got living with you, right? Those were Jim's words.

SPEAKER_03 14:50

I I mean, what the fuck, dude? I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02 14:56

It's so what a messy bitch. Award? That that's your disgustingly young boyfriend, and also like uh b uh Okay. Do you remember what's what was that um the gross director's name? RP Weinstein. Oh yeah, you're right, there's so many. The other one where he had adopted that little girl. Oh, Mia Pharaoh's husband. Um groomed her to be his next wife.

SPEAKER_01 15:25

Fuck, what was yeah, because it was Mia Pharaoh's husband, but I forget his name. But I love Mia Pharaoh. I have to I have to look it up now. Hold on. Um, let's see. Wait, maybe it wasn't Mia Pharaoh. Fuck, I don't know. Woody Allen.

SPEAKER_02 15:39

Okay, I was like, but you know who I'm talking about though, right?

SPEAKER_01 15:42

Woody Allen, yep. I know exactly what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_02 15:44

Okay, um This is not how this is done.

SPEAKER_01 15:47

So yeah, so this is his name, Jim. Yeah. Jim uh called him out and they both started laughing and they became close friends.

SPEAKER_02 15:56

Started laughing. Okay. For for a ward that I have, that's not a ward, that's your underage boyfriend.

SPEAKER_01 16:04

Anyways, shall we go for tea? Probably exactly what happened. Um, around this time, Minnie had her second heart attack and she died. Um, so since he was never very close with his brother and his father, after her death, he like severed all ties from his male relatives. Like they were just done. Okay. Because he was really just close with um with just his mom, just Minnie. Never really had a very good relationship with the other two. Um, so he went home for the funeral. Uh, he came back, and then him and Jack's relationship became strained. Because he was 16. Surprisingly, no. Um, is because Jack was thought to be manic depressive. Oh. So like that was like before the time of like actual like diagnoses. Um, so in the book I read, it was like suggested that he was manic depressive. Um, but he got into drugs because you know it's the late 60s. What?

SPEAKER_02 17:09

Magic.

SPEAKER_01 17:10

Drugs are not magic. Don't do drugs. Okay. Okay. Um, and he began to drink a lot. Uh, he would disappear for days at a time and come home and tell Harvey of his sexual promiscuity. Once Harvey stopped being jealous. So, like, he would come home and like make Harvey jealous by telling him of his little sexcapades while he was gone for days at a time. And so Harvey like just stopped being jealous because he's like, I don't even know what to do anymore. Um, he used other methods to light Harvey's short fuse because, as we recall, he does have one. Uh, he would often trigger warning, he would often threaten suicide. He once tried to hang himself in the garage, and Harvey arrived like just in time to cut him down. Uh, he threw himself in front of a taxi and it missed it like by a few inches. Um, Harvey tried to get him like psychiatric help, but Jack didn't participate and he began to drink more. So, like, Harvey was like, bro, you need help. Like, let me try and help you. And Jack was like, nah, I'm gonna be over here drinking and doing drugs. And yeah. So, I mean, I'm not a psychiatrist, but I would say probably manic depressive, but yeah, I'm I'm also not a psychiatrist, but I believe it. Yeah, I could see there are some signs. Yeah. Um, so in hopes

Dallas, New York, Then San Francisco

SPEAKER_01 18:40

of trying to help Jack, in 1967, Harvey accepted a position for the Dallas branch of his current company, so they moved. He moved back to Dallas. Uh, Jack lived there for a few weeks before he moved back to New York. That was just not the life for him.

SPEAKER_02 18:56

Texas isn't the life for him.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

No. Um, and then in 1968, Harvey transferred back to New York and soon resigned from his position. Um, and then Jack actually ended up getting a job as a stage director for Hare in San Francisco. Uh, and Harvey followed him and got a job as a financial analyst, uh, analyst. Whoop, analyst on Montgomery. You got this. Thank you. You leave me alone. I'm doing my best. Fuck. Um, on Montgomery Street. They lived together, but the relationship was pretty rocky, obviously. Uh, they broke up after a crazy incident. Another one. Another one, yes. Um, and Jack moved back to New York. Harvey stayed in Fran San Francisco and said it was where his future lay. So this is how he came to San Francisco.

SPEAKER_02 19:51

San Francisco. I love San Francisco. I've only been there once.

SPEAKER_01 19:56

It's beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 19:57

It is. I went in July and um I had only packed summer clothes. Which That's a mistake. Which is the wrong move. Yeah. Where's San Francisco? You at least need need like a light sweater. It was yeah, I think we stayed there for like three or four days, and I wore the same pair of pants, the only pair of pants I packed the entire time, and I had to buy a sweatshirt that says San Francisco. So that's how you know where I was in all those pictures.

SPEAKER_01 20:23

You were in San Francisco.

SPEAKER_02 20:24

Yeah, it's not like, oh, she just happened to go to San Francisco one time. I don't even know if I wore it after that trip, but I just had to buy it for this stupid trip.

SPEAKER_01 20:31

I get it. That happened to me when I went to SeaWorld with um a school group once, because it was in like later in the year and it was at night, and we went on one of like the splash rides. Oh god. And it was cold. Cold. Yeah. And I got drenched and I had to buy a sweatshirt because I was so cold. It was insane. So I get it. Um hey, if you happen to see that fly go by, can you like try and Mr. Miyagi that shit? Sure. Cool. Because it's really pissing me off.

SPEAKER_02 21:06

You you know that I don't do martial arts, right?

SPEAKER_01 21:09

Yeah, but like just wax on, wax off, grab that fucking fly. Okay, okay. All right.

SPEAKER_02 21:17

No problem, boss. You got it.

SPEAKER_01 21:20

Alright, so now we're in San Francisco. Woo! Uh after his move, Harvey's political views began to become more liberal. Uh, and he decided he wanted to pursue a career in politics, and he wanted to become the mayor of San Francisco. Those were his goals. Um, he was falling. Yeah, it's a good aspiration, you know. Uh he was falling into an urban hippie type of feel. He was attending anti war marches and spending more of his time with the flower children. Where's Craig? I don't know. Wait. Him and Craig broke up, and then he was with Jack.

SPEAKER_02 22:00

Yeah, okay. No, but I'm thinking of the right one. Craig is the one who is all like outspoken. Power to the gaze, and we're gonna be outspoken.

SPEAKER_01 22:05

Yeah. Yeah. Bring Craig back. I think he does. Oh. I don't know. I haven't read these parts of my notes in a couple of weeks. So um, but yeah, so he was spending more time with his flower children friends from the hair cast. Because he like lived with a lot of the cast from hair. So um he would still get up every day and put on his three-piece suit and go out to his corporate job, but during his lunch hours, he would join protesters at the Pacific Stock Exchange, where he jumped in front of a crowd and angrily burned his Bank America card. The crowd loved it, especially since it came from a businessman. I work for a corporation, but I'm gonna burn my card. What is that? What does that do for you? You gotta go get a new card. It's Harvey. I don't know, man. He's very impulsive. He just does. He's making a statement. Yep. He was soon fired. No way. Like, you can't do that on your lunch break. He was soon fired for the first time in his entire life. Uh the company gave him an ultimatum. Um, because also at this time, since he was like living his urban, like hippie life, he was growing his hair out and he had like a crazy mustache.

SPEAKER_02 23:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 23:25

So they gave him an ultimatum. They were like, cut your hair or quit. So he said no, and they fired him. And then he moved to LA to help his friend.

unknown 23:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 23:36

Oh, I'm here.

SPEAKER_02 23:36

All right. Oh no.

SPEAKER_01 23:38

Choices were made.

SPEAKER_02 23:39

I'm not gonna cut my hair.

SPEAKER_01 23:41

I'm leaving and I'm going to LA. Uh so he went to LA to help a friend who was like a producer. He was making a film. Um, and it ended up falling through the film. So he actually drove back to New York. Good lord. I know. He's just kind of all over the place. You know, when I hear stories like this, I just think I'm like, how did you afford this? I'll tell you. Oh god. Because we get there. Okay. Um, so he went back to his friend Jim. Remember the one from his previous job. Right. Um Jim, the one who laughs at children being a ward of yeah, that guy. Yeah. Um, so on his way back to New York, he almost died on the drive because there were rednecks at a Texas truck stop that taunted his hippie appearance, but he snapped back and almost got his head blown off as they ran him out of town.

SPEAKER_03 24:37

What did he say?

SPEAKER_02 24:39

I don't know what he said. Oh my god. Okay. I mean, yep.

SPEAKER_01 24:47

Um

Scott Smith And The Camera Store Gamble

SPEAKER_01 24:50

so now that he's back in New York, he met a new man. His name is Joseph Scott Smith. Okay. A little about Joseph. He had recently come to New York from Mississippi. He avoided being drafted into the Vietnam War by checking a box on the final page of his draft medical form. The one that said he was gay? Yep. It was next to the word homosexual.

unknown 25:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:15

Harvey was 20 years older than him. Harvey. God. I actually don't know how old he is. Hold on. So 1972. So Harvey was in his 40s. So Scott was he goes by Scott. Scott was in his 20s. I just like.

SPEAKER_02 25:38

You're so mature for your age. Jesus Christ. No, no, you're not.

SPEAKER_01 25:42

Don't listen to them. That's a predator. Yeah. You you say not mature for your age. Fuck you, random Canada.

SPEAKER_02 25:51

Run to Canada.

SPEAKER_01 25:52

Yeah, actually. That might work for you. Um, okay. Harvey. What the fuck was I saying? Oh, Harvey was the associate producer of Inner City. Um, it was a show that was his friend that was doing the film. Yeah. He was doing it. He was like producing it. Um, so he was like the associate producer because he had really good like financial background, so it kind of helped. Okay. Um, so once that show was over, he planned to move back to San Francisco with Scott. Um, before the show ended, in early Scott, in early 1972, Harvey moved, but Scott had to wait until the show was over because he was also working at the show at the time. Um, so once they were both in San Francisco, they adopted a dog. Where are all his pets going? I don't know. I was I knew you were gonna ask that. I don't know. Um they adopted a dog and named it the kid, which is kind of cute.

SPEAKER_02 26:57

I mean, like, it's cute until you abandon your dog. Stop getting dogs with these people. Dogs and toucans, dogs, toucans, cats, I don't know what cows, stop doing this.

SPEAKER_01 27:10

Um, so yeah, they spent a year driving through California, living off their unemployment checks, and sleeping in the woods of state parks.

SPEAKER_02 27:19

Wooden.

unknown 27:20

I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 27:20

Um so he's not really actually affording his lifestyle as I'm hearing. He's living out of his car.

unknown 27:28

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 27:29

Okay.

unknown 27:29

Yep. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 27:31

Uh once they stopped receiving their checks, they went back to San Francisco and they lived off their income taxes and spent their afternoons on massive jigsaw puzzles. I mean, jigsaw puzzles sound really great, but I guess you could do that in the 70s. I don't think you can do that now.

SPEAKER_02 27:55

God no. No, you sure can't. No.

SPEAKER_01 27:59

Um, by the end of 1972, they both needed to buckle down and get jobs. Um uh they heard Castro Street was a booming area for gays, and Harvey decided they would spend their last $1,500 on opening a camera store, and then they moved into the apartment upstairs.

SPEAKER_02 28:20

A camera store.

SPEAKER_01 28:22

Yeah, like um, like film and yeah. Yeah. Does he know about cameras? Nope. Cool. He just decided this is what was gonna happen. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. As one does. Um, and then also around this time, like they had oh, I found the fly. Where'd it go? Why didn't you Mr. Miyagi it? I think it went into my drink. This is why we can't have nice things.

SPEAKER_02 28:47

I don't think it went into your drink. I saw it. I saw it like in this middle area.

SPEAKER_01 28:53

What do you think you can hear? Help, help, you're drowning. Probably. I'm gonna take a sip, and then if I spit it out, we all know there's a fucking fly in there. Alright, I think we're okay. Not yet. Towards the bottom. Um, so they have him and Scott have this little camera shop and they live in the apartment on top of it. And then also, now that they're getting like their shit together, Harvey decided to run for supervisor of the board of supervisor of the board of District 5 of San Francisco. Okay. Yes. Um, a lot of people discouraged him because he had no money and the other candidates were backed by money. Um, he did you find it? Nobody move, nobody breathe. I think he did. Oh shit, I got it. I told you you were Mr. Miyagi. Bitch, I don't know why you don't listen to me. I'm just glad it's not in my drink. I got it. She Mr. Miyagi that shit, just like I said, guys. I told you. I told you. Uh so yeah, so he had no money. All of the other candidates did have money. Um, but he delivered a quote,

Early Campaigns And Building A Base

SPEAKER_01 30:10

theatrical hellfire and brimstone populist speech, end quote, that stole the show from even the seasoned, seasoned politicians. Uh, he still ended up losing the election, though.

SPEAKER_02 30:23

Yeah. Yeah, you do kind of also need a plan.

SPEAKER_01 30:26

Yeah, you do. Um, but that didn't stop him. Uh, he announced he was running um in an interview in an interview, he said, I can concentrate on making a lot of money while I while I enjoy perhaps another 10 years of active gay life. Then, after 53, I can just coast, call the whole thing good, or I can get involved and do something about the things that are wrong in society. I've got to fight not just for me, but for my lover and his next lover eventually. It's got to be better for them than it was for me.

SPEAKER_03 31:03

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

unknown 31:05

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 31:06

Um, so since he decided to run again, uh, his first endorsement was from Jose Sadia. Sorry if I said that wrong, uh, who was a drag performer at the gay bar, the black cat bar. Uh, he was also the first openly gay candidate for public office in 1961. Um, so with this endorsement, other gay bar owners, angry at the policies, signed up to support Harvey. Okay. Yeah. So he thrust himself into the core of the city's progressive elements. He pushed to make a city, the city, a major tourist corporation, corporate a major tourist and corporate center.

SPEAKER_02 31:50

Okay. Well, the tourism works.

SPEAKER_01 31:52

Maybe if I drink more Red Bull, my ADHD will calm down.

SPEAKER_02 31:56

You're not be able to keep up with your brain.

SPEAKER_01 31:58

No, I can't. Um, he also backed a proposition that would replace citywide at-large board with district elections. He is an icon. Thank you. What did he say?

SPEAKER_02 32:13

Why can't I come?

SPEAKER_01 32:14

Oh, I thought he said he's an icon.

SPEAKER_02 32:16

No, that would be amazing. I our vocabulary would be growing significantly. If he said that. Uh, we're not there yet. Ah, okay. We're still repeating similar phrases with adding it if you knew. I think why can't I come is actually it's inside. The fly?

SPEAKER_01 32:31

No, it's dead now. Inside heaven, where flies go.

SPEAKER_02 32:35

Fly heaven.

SPEAKER_01 32:36

I'm imagining just a fruit bowl that they don't get swatted from. Yes. That's their heaven. That is fly heaven. Yes. Um, so during his campaign, one of his opponents was so impressed with one of his campaign flyers that he took it and replaced Milk's name with his own. Wow. Yeah. Instead of getting mad, Harvey put out a press release. Harvey said in a press release the fact that an Arab Republican businessman could take Harvey's campaign, and mind you, Harvey is a gay Jewish Democrat hippie, um, and used it as his own shows that Harvey had a unique ability to bridge ideologies. Ooh, clever. Yeah. Um, Tom Randall. Tom Randall chaired the Veterans from Milk committee, uh, and he released a story to the press about Harvey was booted out of the Navy for being gay, which isn't quite true, but Harvey does love theatrics. Um, so he was made for the stage. He was made for the stage. Uh, he also wanted to get the point of how gay people in the military were often kicked out for this reason and their lives were ruined. So that's why he didn't like correct this story. Um, he after he lost this election, because he lost this one too, he cut his hair and shaved his mustache to not the mustache. Not the mustache to get more votes. So he's running again. Uh one of his early alliances was with the Teamsters. Um, so they were local beer drivers who were boycotting six major beer companies who refused to sign uh the proposed union contract. Uh the leader of the Teamsters approached Harvey for help. He listed over 400 Arab grocers and the Federation of Chinese Grocers to boycott these six beer companies. He said if the gay bars also joined, they could win. Um, Harvey agreed to help on one condition. Uh, and the condition was that he would help bring gays into the Teamsters Union since they buy a lot of beer um that they deliver to these gay bars.

SPEAKER_03 35:07

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 35:08

Um, and it would only be fair if they got a share of the jobs. Sure. Um, so Harvey was able to have a publisher friend connect him to bar owners and they began buttonholing support for the boycott. Uh this gained a lot of press, and Harvey was Harvey was uh Harvey enjoyed like the symbolism of tying gays to conservative Teamsters. Like he was recognizing like the symbolism of it. Um the boycott worked five of six five of the six advisor. Oh, cast.

SPEAKER_02 35:43

Oh, okay. Course. Wow. I was about to say your favorite beer. I know. Do you who are the other five? Do you know? Or four.

SPEAKER_01 35:54

Um engape ball stuff.

SPEAKER_02 35:56

Wow. Because cores is inferior to what your dad says. So I guess he would think that cores is your dad just said not even close. Anyone couldn't hear that. I'm sure you can't actually. So that's interesting. Who is it then? Who is it then? She's pissed that we're talking about okay, people.

SPEAKER_01 36:16

Yeah. Turn it on. Is it on now? Yeah, it's on now. We're good. It's on now. I'm just gonna move my computer slightly closer to the mic to see if that prevents. That was weird. All right. Is your cord tucked in your chair though? No. Are you sitting on it? No. It was tucked under another cord, so I just pulled it out, so maybe that was why. Oh.

SPEAKER_02 36:36

Umor of Castro Street.

SPEAKER_01 36:42

Yes, people began to call him the unofficial mayor of Castro Street. In 1974, Harvey was able to get 2,350

The Castro 14 And Police Brutality

SPEAKER_01 36:50

new voters uh to register for the governor's race. Um, on Labor Day in 1974, tensions between the gay community on Castro Street and the police. Um, okay, so tensions between the gay community and the police uh began to rise. Um, so outside of the popular Toad Hall, uh it was a bar. Toad Toad? Toad Hall, yep. It was frequented by um, it was a gay bar. Okay, like um, so two officers yelled the F slur at a group of men. The young men like looked to see who yelled it and walked away when they realized they were officers. Um, because you know, they're not about to throw it on at the cops. Exactly. Um, but this upset the officers, and they got out of their car, slammed the men to the ground, and beat them. Yep. Soon a paddy wagon showed up and they threw two men in it. Paddy wagon.

SPEAKER_02 37:51

I I was waiting. I was trying to be really polite, but I was like, Paddy wagon.

SPEAKER_01 37:57

Um, they threw two men in it, and then like a fucking swarm of bees, other officers just appeared like out of nowhere. Um, and they made sure to hide their badge numbers and just started attacking dozens of gay men. Like these motherfuckers came out of nowhere.

SPEAKER_02 38:16

Unfortunately, yeah, that does not surprise me. My guess is that those first couple officers were like, hey, guess what? Does anyone else want to get in on this?

SPEAKER_01 38:26

Yeah, I think that's yeah. What?

SPEAKER_02 38:29

Go slowly.

SPEAKER_01 38:31

So then what happened? No, I'm just kidding. Um, so 14 men were taken to jail. Uh, Harvey was outraged and dubbed them the Castro 14. Okay. Yep. He headquartered their defense um at the camera shop, and a $1.375 million lawsuit was filed against the police. Oh, okay. Uh, at the hearing, Harvey started calling the police pigs, then others joined in. After this, the police brutality on Castro Street dropped remarkably. Like they just the police were just not expecting the gay community to fire back. What be upset? Yeah. So, yeah. Um, in 1975, his campaign gained a lot of momentum. His strongest tactical allies came from unions. Uh, he was one of two candidates to back labor 100%. Um, and then with this, he gained endorsements of the three most macho unions: the Teamsters, Firemen, and Hard Hats.

SPEAKER_02 39:41

Hell yeah. Yeah. Wait, weren't they part of um the YMCA? Yeah. The YMCA dance. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:49

Yep.

unknown 39:49

Cool.

SPEAKER_01 39:50

And my guess is hard hats is like construction workers.

SPEAKER_03 39:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:53

Yeah. Um, so even with all this support, he lost again. Uh, he began campaigning harder after this. Um, and then his partner, Scott, was also more involved at this time, um, like in his campaign, and they ended up turning the store over to a 20-year-old art student from New York uh named Danny Nicoletta. Okay. So this person was running the store, but they would still use the camera shop like as his headquarters for his campaigns and stuff. Oh, okay. Yeah. Um, so in 1975, uh George Muscone was elected mayor, and he publicly thanked Harvey for his support and the and added that the unofficial mayor of Castro Street would soon have an official role in his administration. Uh, when asked by reporters who he would appoint to the board um if any vac b vacancies opened, he said he would appoint the person who had the next highest votes in the 1975 race. And everyone knew that he was talking about Harvey.

SPEAKER_03 41:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 41:06

Um, so when he in 1975, when Muscone

Family Fallout And Death Threats

SPEAKER_01 41:10

was uh elected mayor, liberals occupied San Francisco's top three posts. So they occupied mayor, district attorney, and the sheriff. Um, and then with this, Harvey would soon be the first acknowledged gay commissioner in the U.S. Um when he was sworn in in early 1976. Cool. Um, but he still was not elected for supervisor yet. Okay. So he ran for supervisor in 1975, 1976, and in 1977. Uh in 1976, he ran against Art Agnos. Um, during this campaign, he would gain the upper hand by studying Agnos's speeches and playing to his weaknesses to earn votes, but then Agnos started doing the same thing to Harvey, and Harvey could feel his momentum slipping. And because of this, he began to fight with Scott more. And if Scott like did something wrong, I know. If Scott did something wrong, Harvey would yell at him and he would say, You've ruined everything. And then he would go on one of his tantrums, and Scott would just like sit there and take the abuse, knowing Harvey would yell and freak out, but still love him in the morning after all was said and done. No, they didn't last much longer after this. Just by the way. Good for Scott. Yeah. Um, during this campaign, Harvey's father died. Alright, I'll see myself out.

SPEAKER_02 42:45

I want you to go. No. She can't go. She has to finish what she's saying. I listen to it. I want to hear the rest of the story.

SPEAKER_01 42:54

Um, okay, so Harvey's father died. Um, and even though he was estranged from him and his brother, he still went, uh, went home. Uh, but there was a huge argument between him and his brother about cremation. Um, Robert, his brother, flipped the fuck out on him and he said, You burned my mother, you're not going to have my father. Okay. Because Harvey had Minnie cremated. Uh-huh. Um, so they just were not doing good. Um, and this upset Harvey even more, especially because during his visit, he became very close with his nephew, so with Robert's son. Um, and he even overheard his nephew talking to Robert, and he said, Uncle Harvey is a real open-minded guy. Why can't you be more like him? And Robert replied with, You better be glad I'm not anything like him. I don't know what that means. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:53

Um, also, this I I thought this, but I wanted to look it up. Um, I think that probably. one of the issues is you said Harvey's Jewish, right? So his family's Jewish. Um but you're not supposed to be cremated. Oh that's right. That makes sense. Yeah I had to look that up to double check but yeah you're not supposed to cremation is the enemy.

SPEAKER_03 44:16

You were cremated sir.

SPEAKER_01 44:18

Your ashes are somewhere around here or they're in my room. One of the two I don't know here somewhere I didn't lose them. Um so displaced them for the time being I'm pretty sure they're on top of my dresser because that's where they always are or that's where they have yeah the heart. Okay. That's where they've been since I was 17 is on top of my dresser. Um anyway stop making this about you dad it's not Gemini season anymore. I know he's pissed wait no come back. Um all right so when Harvey returned back to San Francisco he continued on his campaign um but he actually started receiving death threats around this time um over the years he kind of just became numb to them like they didn't really bother him because he's a gay and b yeah a politician I'm sure they get tons of those. Exactly um but the first one he ever got absolutely terrified him like he was so frightened trigger warning excuse me I also have to pick up damn Red Bull um trigger warning okay um it read Harvey Milk will have a dream journey and nightmare to hell and night of horror you will be stabbed and have your genitals cock balls prick cut off this came from a man claiming to be from the Black Muslim temple 26 which is basically just um one of the temples the Muslim temples um like in San Francisco yeah yeah um and I don't know if I've mentioned this before but throughout the book Harvey had always mentioned that he was never gonna live very long um that he had a premonition that he was going to be killed and he would say this often to people um so like after his first death threat it kind of just added to his feeling that he wouldn't live to be 50. And he like I said he would tell people that he was not long for this world which is really sad.

SPEAKER_03 46:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:25

Um so a lot of stuff happened like in between all of this but I kind of wanted just to like skip to like his main like big things before the end because it's what he's known for and like

Orange Tuesday And Anita Bryant Backlash

SPEAKER_01 46:40

a lot of the book goes into like other people as well and I was like I don't have time to read these chapters about other people. Not them yeah exactly Harvey. Um so topic the next big thing that kind of like threw him into the board position like this really kind of like set him up to become like to be elected um is called Orange Tuesday. So in 1977 uh everything started out like on a pretty good note in Dade County which is where they were um commissions voted five to three in January to enact a broad civil rights ordinance banning discrimination against gays in employment and public accommodations. So January is starting out 1978 no sorry 1977 was starting out like good for gays in this area.

SPEAKER_02 47:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 47:37

Um but Anita Bryant do you know who that is she's a singer oh uh she decided that fuck that gays can't do that oh okay yeah um and she I was like do you like her? No we don't okay uh she began leading a campaign against the Dade County gay rights ordinance um what kind of music did she sing? That's a good question. She had three top 20 hits in the United States in the early 1960s. She was 1958 Miss Oklahoma beauty pageant winner. Let's see damn she just recently died. Oh what are her songs until there was you okay is one of the big ones Paper Roses and Wonderland by night.

SPEAKER_02 48:30

Well I'm glad she was big for her time anyways she looks kind of familiar.

SPEAKER_01 48:34

Yeah well it's funny because when I was reading the book um and they were talking about her anti-gay campaign she was leading Harvey had mentioned that he wasn't really threatened by her because she was like a mediocre pop star and like he had so much backing that like he wasn't worried about like her getting in the way of like gay rights um but he was wrong. She gained a lot of media attention since she was a pretty woman and a singer so it like this escalated quickly. So in response to this Harvey led a march that grew to 3000 people on Castro Street now this is the Orange Tuesday. Damn bro that wind's gonna win yeah oh my god it's gonna knock the house down fuck that scared me me too it's like what's happening you can stay it's fine um so he led a march that grew to 3000 people on Castro Street they chanted we are your children we are your children and 2468 separate church and state separate church and state separate church and state yeah um go together they really don't even George Washington said so um so they marched for over five miles in over three hours at midnight they assembled at Union Square where Harvey um held a rally and he stated this is the power of the gay community Anita Bryant is going to create a national gay force um after the rally they walked back to Castro and Mark Market Street but a lot of the people were still like super pissed off and like not ready to just like let it go. So they literally just sat in the middle of the busiest intersection they just sat there in protest um and the police were starting to move in um and they were showing hostility obviously but then Harvey ended up taking a bullhorn from one of the police um and he was at he ended up being able to clear the street promising another demonstration the next day um and that's what happened. So the next night 5,000 people marched in Greenwich Valley Greenwich Valley Greenwich Greenwich Greenwich it's spelt like Greenwich it's in New York I think that's Greenwich. Okay wait with Greenwich Village yeah it's Greenwich Village okay that's what I thought well it's spelled like Greenwich so it's very confusing that's that's uh English yeah um so over 5,000 people marched there there were 400 in 400 in Denver and then the same crowd reconvened on Castro Street what's up oh I just turned your dad off oh that's okay wow um so this continued the entire week people marched and rallied um from literally Tuesday on um in different cities and different areas um and then on Sunday churchgoers at the St. Mary's Cathedral were met with 500 silent demonstrators lining the plaza to the entrance standing vigil to protest the repeal of their gay rights. So all of this was successful he said I'm walking okay maybe he's Jane along you know what when I was writing these notes I was like I literally looked at Joey and I was like I wonder if my dad like went to this to one of these marches and he was like well your dad wasn't gay then and I was like excuse me I was like no he was he just wasn't allowed to be but then I also remembered that during this time he was in the air force so no he was not no but I was like thank you Joey no he's still gay yep just quietly oh shit that was funny um okay so this wasn't the end um ten days after Orange Tuesday why orange I don't know why is it orange Tuesday historians dubbed the day Orange Tuesday as a nod to Anita Bryant's citrus industry ties because she had a citrus industry okay because Orange Tuesday happened in a backlash because of her because of her okay but like it was actually the gay people who were marching right okay yes so it was the gay people that were marching against her campaign to um get rid of how did she get any fucking credit for this I think it's like a dig at her Orange Tuesday because she owns like a citrus farm. I don't know man I'm not a historian from the 1970s I don't know um anyhows thank you yeah no problem at least answers the why I'm still confused partially yeah um so the leaders of the militant San Francisco gay democratic club uh took action and went to Golden Gate Park where vice president Walter Mondale was giving a speech um so at this event Harvey lectured the people that were going into the event from a flatbed truck using a bullhorn um and people became silent like all of his followers and protesters became silent when the subject of human rights was brought up um when this happened they all held up signs asking for statements on human rights for gays so they were completely quiet and just put signs up towards the stage where oh okay where the politician was where the vice president was okay yeah a basic ass politician yes there's just some random guy some guy of their talking so this pissed off the vice president because he didn't like that there were gays at his rally especially huh boo who yeah especially after one protester yelled when are you going to speak out on gay rights and when someone yelled that out he just walked off the stage and he left imagine being so sensitive like just so emotional that you can't handle hard situation like addressing a question on something you may or may not feel positively about like just marching off stage get your shit together. Yeah like yeah it's bad um so unfortunately Anita Bryan's repeal won um and random beatings of gays increased like it wasn't just like like mugging and like robbing like these people were just fucking finding gays and just beating them um so these men started carrying police whistles and then they organized like street patrols uh one night Harvey and a friend heard a whistle and they ran to the victim uh the friend stayed intended to the victim and Harvey chased down and tackled the attacker the attacker said don't beat me and when I read that I was like Richard Ramirez too late bitch oh no not me oh so you can just perpetrate violence but you can't yeah exactly so he said don't beat me and Harvey replied with I'm not going to beat you I'm gonna take you down to Toad Hall and tell everyone what you tried to do and let them take care of you all right that was his threat to this attacker he didn't actually do that he just ended up bringing back the attacker to the victim um but the victim was like was too afraid of the police at the time because you know he's gay yeah and the police are also beating gay managers

Coalition Politics And The 1977 Win

SPEAKER_01 56:50

so he was he was like I don't want to press charges just we just let it go um but when Harvey let this person go he said tell all your friends we're down here waiting for them Harvey okay um so with all of this happening and like Anita Bryant's repeal and whatever Harvey ran again like it's no surprise.

SPEAKER_02 57:14

Yeah it's not he sounds like he's just not gonna stop doing this until he gets it.

SPEAKER_01 57:19

Exactly so in 1977 um Harvey was running for supervisor of District 5 against another openly gay leader. Oh uh he was running against Rick Stokes who as a child was subjected to shock therapy and he kind of used that in his campaign I mean I would too um yeah I feel like I'm gonna tell everybody about this shit. Yeah um so it was funny because the book compared the two Rick was a gentleman politician who built a substantial reputation as a gay rights lawyer working for the gay cause in some of the highest circles he was reasonable cool headed and a respectable homosexual whereas Harvey was Harvey was still enraged and given the given to shoot from the hip hyperbole uh the maverick forging a populist political niche representing the scruffy studs on Castro Street the shirtless ones those topless man whores okay just a callback to New York you know these shirtless gay men are you scared no yes oh terrified a man's nipples has never scared me more than I don't know a spider or something you know what scares me men's nipples no unsolicited dick pics those are no one likes the prize dick nobody likes that at all I know exactly what you're thinking about and I want to throw my drink at you I got a puppy I hate you so much um all right so during this campaign Harvey focused mostly on uh the terrors per perpetrated by heterosexuals um and the importance of coming out to family and friends um his strategy focused on running an incumbent campaign okay which I didn't really know what that meant so I looked it up so he's basically running as if he already has the seat okay I will um so he was challenging his opponents to meet his record of involvement in neighborhood issues because he was right fucking there okay but he doesn't have the seat I know but he's running as if he does so like I've been told like like with the confidence of something already okay I was like because like I've been told by people like when you go to like a job interview talk of like you already have the position. Right. Okay so that's that's what he's yeah I see yeah um he received endorsements from the Mexican American Political Association to the gay republican club and his usual assortment of unions so the Teamsters and and all of the YMCA men. Yes uh he even gained support from the People's Temple I know you know this is that oh god which cult is that Jim Jones thank you that's my thought's name I was like it's I was like it's the one where they all drank the Kool-Aid Jim Jones yep uh so he gained support aged like milk yeah oh get it Jesus Christ all right so Harvey's campaign literally went to the people's temple and like gave them brochures and flyers and then all of the volunteers like in the people's temple literally just went around and handed them out to people. Isn't that crazy? Yeah um he also met a new man during this time his name was Jack Lira okay uh I just kind of threw that in there because I forgot that like I was supposed to talk about his personal life also also his boyfriend. Anyways moving on yes um so all of his hard work paid off on November 8th 1977 he was elected as board supervisor of District 5. He was inaugurated on January 8th 1978 he used his first board meeting to strike an independent path and his first legislative proposal called for the enactment of comprehensive ban on all discrimination of gays that I'm sorry this is the proposal name what was it again?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:56

The enactment of a comprehensive ban on all discrimination of gays did you find it did I even have yes I did sounds like it came from that box over there and I'm just trying to ignore it right now. Um why doesn't that have a good acronym? I don't know like if you're gonna have a name that long you have to be able to be like

Hope Speech And Pride Parade Power

SPEAKER_02 1:02:20

and then we called it Spike or something like short because how are you supposed to say that shit all the time?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:25

I don't know man. It is a little warm. That light is a little It's summer yeah it is summer um okay so now that he's finally elected this led to his infamous hope speech um so in 1978 Harvey was set to speak at San Francisco City Hall for the Gay Freedom Parade and this is where he made his infamous hope speech okay um before the parade Harvey received a neatly typed postcard that said you get the first bullet the minute you stand at the microphone there's something in that box I'm not going over there.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:10

I'm not either okay okay Jesus fine he really like has zero patience for our chitter chatter when we like begin this and like any sort of like we're like oh we're getting distracted he's like yeah come on he's like I don't give a fuck about your ADHD I don't care if you're both unmedicated get your shit together yeah sorry um so yeah so he received this postcard um and he received many threats that just like further perpetuated his thought that he would be assassinated before he was 50.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:45

I mean it didn't stop him um obviously uh the parade was on June 25th 1978 which was the same year Brandon was born you know someday I hope that Brandon listens to this and he goes keep my name out goddamn mouth and he smacks us across the fish just like I hate you guys yep yeah I kind of I kind of hope it comes it might um so at this parade there was a 90 piece marching band um that led and there was a banner towards the front that quoted Jimmy Carter who is my favorite president um it quoted human rights are absolute um this part I laughed so hard when I read this part and Joey was like are you okay and I was like wait till you hear this okay like this is literally what they called themselves so don't get mad at me and I'm sorry that I laughed at it but it was just funny okay it's funny okay okay there were over a hundred gay groups everything from gay doctors teachers and plumbers to the roaring dykes on bikes that's also how I said it so it was like okay or said it to Joey anyway um I love it I know I do too uh it was estimated the crowd was at 375000 which at the time was the largest assemblage of people that would meet in one place in San Francisco in the 1970s um and then I have the hope speech I'm not gonna read the whole thing um I mean like it basically just goes over so it says my name is Harvey Milk and I'm here to recruit you I've been saving this one for years it's a political joke I can't help it I've got to tell it I've never been able to talk to this many political people before so if I tell you nothing else you may be able to go home laughing a bit um so I mean pretty much like this is like a super super famous speech Um six months ago, Anita Bryant, in her speaking to God, said that the drought in California was because of the gay people.

unknown 1:06:10

Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:12

On November 9th, the day after I got elected, it started to rain. On the day I got sworn sworn in, we walked to City Hall and it was kind of nice. And as soon as I said the words, I do, it started to rain again.

unknown 1:06:27

Hmm.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:28

Yeah. It's been raining since then, and the people of San Francisco figure the only way to stop it is to do a recall petition. That's a local joke. Um, so much for that. Why are we here? Why are gay people here? And what's happening? What's happening to me is the antithesis of what you read about in the papers and what you hear about on the radio. You hear about and read about this movement to the right, that we must band together and fight back this movement to the right. I am here to go ahead and say that what you hear and read is what they want you to think because it's not happening. Um, let's see. There's just a lot. Um the speech is very like well published. Like you could literally just look up hope speech and read the whole thing. Because it's really long. Like I said, I'm not gonna read the whole thing, but um, yeah, so he gave his infamous um hope speech on this day. Yeah, so pretty much it's just like he was giving gays of San Francisco hope that you know things are gonna get better and gays will be able to be out and proud and not live in fear. Um so after his inauguration and after his hope speech, after the parade, he met a new man named Doug Franks, who everyone seemed to like, and they all agreed he was just Harvey's type. But they didn't tell me how old he was, so I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:04

I was just about to say barely legal, if at all. Yeah, don't do that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:13

Um, but remember, he was also with Jack Lira, so this upset Jack. So really why? All right, well, okay. From what I gathered from the book, him and Jack were no longer because Jack started going on like an anti-gay rampage. As a gay man, it's an interesting thing to do. I know. Okay. So I don't know what exactly the deal was, but now that Harvey was dating a new man, it upset Jack. Um, and like I said, he started to go on anti-gay rampages and blah blah blah. Um, trigger warning, this upset Jack to the point that he ended up killing himself in Harvey's apartment. Yeah. Like literally, Harvey just came home one day and just found like all of his brochures and flyers from his campaign just strewn about, and there were notes everywhere, and they all led like into like the bathroom, I believe. And there was a note that said, You've always loved the circus, Harvey. What do you think of my last act? And then Harvey like moved the bathroom curtain and found him.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:25

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:26

Yeah. That's yeah. I that was kind of all that it really talked about about that, and I was like, this seems important to talk about because like what the hell? Um uh yeah, yeah, but so after not to just like derail and change the subject, because that is absolutely heartbreaking. Like, I don't know what happened to this man where he decided to, you know, become anti-gay and then do what he did, you know. Like, I don't know what happened.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:59

Um, yeah, and what an interesting note.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:04

That wasn't the only note, like there were notes everywhere, yeah. But that was like the one like right where his body was. Yeah. Um, so obviously this upset Harvey, you know, he struggled for a little bit, but he had to, you know, continue being the supervisor. Like he was trying to change and enact new laws and you know, make Castro Street and San Francisco a better place. So there's a lot that happens in between all of this, but I mean he was inaugurated what January uh January 8th, 1978. Then he got a lot of bills passed, he was doing his thing in you know the political world. And then

Dan White Assassination And Aftermath

SPEAKER_01 1:10:50

we lead to his assassination. Okay, yeah, okay. Um, so in City Hall, um Harvey was in his office and he heard Dan White, who was um like a former supervisor on the board as well. Okay, um, and the mayor Mascone yelling at each other from the ceremonial office. Um, and the mayor didn't really like confrontation, so he was trying to like you know bring it down. And so he went into like this little wet room that he has, like a little wet bar in his office to like get Dan a drink. Dan, I want to be mayor for real. If I tried to drink on the job, you can't do that. Yeah, it would be bad. Um, so what would the children think? What would the children think? I mean, your children would probably be like, why didn't you offer me any? They'd be like, Cool, so can I go home? Yeah. I would just be sent home. Um, so he offered him a drink, and when he turned around to like give him the drink, Dan was holding a revolver and he shot him in the arm. Trigger warning for like literally the rest of my talk because I'm going to go into detail of both shootings.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:08

Hang on, hang on, hang on. Before we get into this real quick, I just want to make sure I understand.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:12

So this Dan guy he worked with Harvey and he he was a former supervisor on the board that worked with Harvey and the mayor.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:25

Okay. And he's arguing with the mayor about something. The mayor's trying to be like, cool it, we can chat chit-chat, talk it out. And he shoots it in the arm. Is this a planned assassination or is this a workplace shooting? Okay, thank you. Okay, okay, okay. I'm holding.

unknown 1:12:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:46

Um, right, so he turned around, he shot him in the arm, and then he shot him again, like right in his like right peck.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:56

The right side of his chest. Yeah. Okay, I get it.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:59

Cool. Um, and then obviously, now having been shot like in his sternum area, he collapsed. Trigger warning. Like I said, just be prepared. If you don't want to listen to the gruesoms, please skip forward. But I am going to go into detail of the shooting and where they were shot, and just be prepared. Um, so after the mayor collapsed, Dan then knelt next to him and put the gun six inches away from the right side of his head and pulled the trigger. The bullet went into his earlobe and through his brain. Yep. He then put the gun in his jacket and he had special bullets. They were called dum-dum bullets that explode on impact. And he had these special bullets for his next target. The hole that is produced by these dum-dum bullets is two to three times the size of the bullet in the victim. Like these explode. So now that he has these bullets and he walks around to the other side of the building where the supervisors go, he reloads the gun with these bullets and he walks towards the supervisor's area office where Harvey was. He leaned his head into Harvey's office and asked to see him. Then he led him into his old office across the way and literally barricaded himself in between the door and Harvey. And he shot him. So after the first shot, he like obviously like screamed out in pain and then just reflexively put his arms up in defense, and then Dan just shot him again, and it went right through his wrist and ripped it into his chest and just like came right back out him. Um Harvey fell at this point, and Dan aimed again and shot him another time through the head. It went into the back of his head and through the other side. He was shot a total of five times, Harvey.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:06

God.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:07

Yes. With these like explosive bullets.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:11

What was the point? Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:12

I don't know. So Harvey died at approximately 10 55 a.m. on November 27th, 1978. So he wasn't even in his position for a year. Wait, 1978? Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:27

When was he born?

SPEAKER_01 1:15:28

1930. He was 48. So he didn't make it to 50. Nope. Oh, he did not. I know. So after this, uh Dan simply closed the door and walked out of the building. Um, and then obviously people are running around trying to figure out like what the fuck's going on, especially because Dan had like appointments that were planned, and so did the mayor, and like everyone just saw him leave the building. And they were like, hey, Dan, like we still need you to do this stuff. And he just ignored. So he just fucking stormed out. Um, so at 11:20 a.m., Diane Feinstein, the president of the board of supervisors, made the announcement that the mayor and Harvey had been shot and killed, and Dan White was the suspect. Um, so Dan White, like I said, was a former supervisor that often disagreed with both the mayor and Harvey. Uh, he had recently resigned on November 10th. Jeez. So 17 days before this, um, due to the dissatisfaction of what he saw as the corrupt practices of San Francisco politics. Um, he so to answer your question from earlier, he had the intention of killing two others that day. So this was planned. He knew what he was doing.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:47

Uh he was going to kill the Speaker of California State Assembly, Willie Brown, and uh supervisor supervisor Carol Ruth Silver, who he had also blamed for lobbying Mayor Mascone not to reappoint him. Yeah. Yeah. That's what normal people do. Okay. It's definitely what normal people do. Yeah. Uh he later surrendered to the police at Northern at the Northern police station, where he himself was once a cop. He was found guilty of voluntary manslaughter and sentenced to seven years. I just burped. I'm so sorry if the microphone caught that. If it makes me feel any better, my burp was made in outro. I know that was hilarious. We're just having such a serious conversation that I'm just like. Um so yeah, so he was sentenced to seven years. Obviously, um, the gay community was just absolutely outraged. Uh yeah. And this was seven years? Yes. The fuck? Um, and this sparked the white knight riots, um, which I didn't look too much into because I actually thought maybe I could do another episode on it, because well, someday, not not anytime soon, but um, because both books actually go into in great detail like what happened um for the white knight riots. But if that's something that you guys are interested in, please let me know and I will be happy to cover it. So he served five of his seven years and was paroled on January 7th, 1984. He was secretly transported to LA in fear that he might be murdered in retaliation.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:32

Oh, are you afraid that someone might shoot you?

SPEAKER_01 1:18:35

I know, it's terrifying. Get out here, you little bitch. Yeah. He spent a year there um for his parole, and then he returned to San Francisco. Even the mayor, who was it? Willie Brown, who became the mayor later, like literally warned him, like, don't come back here.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:56

Yeah. Yeah. Um, also, you were gonna shoot me? Mm-hmm. Fuck out of my city.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:00

Yeah. So he moved back anyway. He didn't seem to care, and he lived with his wife and his children. Um, and then on October 21st, trigger warning, uh, October 21st, 1985, less than two years after his release, he died by suicide um by carbon monoxide poisoning

Complicated Legacy And Pride Year Round

SPEAKER_01 1:19:20

in his garage. So that is the end um of my Harvey Milk spiel. Uh, like I said, there's so much that I left out. Um, and I highly suggest uh the book that I used as my main source, um, Mayor of Castro Street, because it just goes into great detail about literally fucking everything. Um, but I don't know, I feel like my takeaway after all of this research on Harvey Milk is he had a lot of problems, especially, you know, in early life, not being able to be like out and proud. Who he is. Um, but he also kind of creeps me out with the men he chooses. Yep. Run. Yep. Um run away. But then he also is just like a pioneer in gay rights, and like if it wasn't for him, a lot of this stuff, you know, for the gay community wouldn't exist.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:22

Yeah, like it's good to have like allies in office and stuff, but it's another thing entirely to have actual representation. Yeah. Which is as our government is supposed to be a representative of democracy. Yeah. So you should have someone who looks and feels like you as a representative. So yeah, him being in kind of a point of authority is really big.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:47

It is, it's huge, it's it's super important. Um, but I mean, all around, like he did a lot for the gay community, and I appreciate him and as fucking Dan White. It just like I just don't get it. I don't know. I'm not a murderer, so I don't know. But anyway, that's Harvey Milk. Well, thanks.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:09

I know so much more now.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:10

I'm gonna get a two can and name him Bill. You're gonna get a two can. No, I hate birds.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:15

This is I was gonna say you will even take care of my chickens.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:20

Your chickens scare the shit out of me. Oh my god. Yeah, it is a chicken. I don't care if it's stanky scare you. I don't care if it has a messed up foot, it still scares me. Stanky bird. Take my good hand. Take my good hand. Um, anyway, so that is uh the end of our pride stuffs. Uh I hope that you enjoyed it. Um let us know if there's something specifically you want us to cover. Like, like I said earlier, we're happy to go back to do pride stuff any time of the year. Yes. Um yeah, so check us out on on YouTube now. Watch our videos. Um that's so macaroni podcast. I think so.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:11

Tell them the rest.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:13

Oh uh we have Instagram, uh, that's so Mac underscore podcast. Uh we have our Facebook as well. Be nice on that one, please, and thank you. Um we are on Spotify, we're on Apple Music, we're on Amazon Music, Apple Podcast. Apple Podcasts. I don't have Apple anything except for this laptop, so excuse me. Um, yeah, we're on all of the major platforms. Check us out.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:38

Um actually, it's only that's

Where To Find Us And Send Stories

SPEAKER_02 1:22:40

so Mac Podcast on YouTube.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:42

Okay, that's so Mac Podcast on YouTube. Um, and then we also have our email. That's so macaronipodcast at gmail.com.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:52

And you can write in any um suggestions that you might have, any stories you want to tell, like local history stories. Um, history's all around. So I'm sure that you have a story. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:06

Yeah. Yeah. So hit us up. Um, we try and be as interactive as possible. Umless you're being an asshole.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:14

Unless you're being an asshole.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:15

Well, even if you are being an asshole.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:16

In case we just we're like, oh, get a life.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:20

Yeah, life. Um yeah, I mean, like, I realize that you and I look like a lesbian couple, but we're not, but we're not. But then you're also not best friends unless your whole entire family questions whether you are, you know. But either way, be nice, people. We're doing our best, and we're just trying to get history out for everybody in a fun way.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:40

Yeah, I'm gonna keep talking. Now that you've given me this platform, no one can stop me.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:46

Alrighty, guys. Well, we'll see you next time. Bye bye. It's a little toasty down here. Hopefully, it cools down a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:05

We almost said you're a little toasty down here.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:08

I kept it together though. I thought you literally just shit your pants.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:14

All I heard was and I was like, yeah, I'm just gonna sit here real calm, like shit my pants.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:22

It was like there's literally a bathroom right there.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:26

Anyways, that might smell. Do you have a story for me today?