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The Cheryl Lacey Show
TRUMPING THE UNIONS: Dirty Money in U.S. Classrooms
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Money laundering, fraud, and misappropriation quietly bleeding school districts dry, and the political earthquake of Donald Trump's dismantling of the federal Department of Education. Should unions be in panic mode?
A conversation with Lawrence Rogak
Right now we have our US correspondent Lawrence Rojak from uh Florida and spent many, many years living in New York, so he would be well and truly aware of all the movements around education and the plight of teachers in the United States. And today we're going to be talking about teachers' unions. Lawrence, welcome to the show.
SPEAKER_00Hello and thank you, Australia.
SPEAKER_01My pleasure and our pleasure. Lawrence, there are two major unions in the United States that represent teachers. You've got the National Education Union, the NEA, and the American Federation of Teachers, the AFT. My understanding is that their major role, as is the case here in Australia and other countries that do have union representation for teachers, is around their collective bargaining for salaries and they also have a great deal of influence on education policy.
SPEAKER_00Is there a question?
SPEAKER_01Sorry, I just wanted to comment. I wanted to say that that that is precisely what happens here in Australia as well. What I'll throw this out to you. I've been having conversations with people recently around this whole issue of collective bargaining and what that actually means for us in democracy and this removal, if you will, of individualism. So what are your thoughts on that when it comes to knowing that some people do need to be represented, but at the same time that collectivism does take away that individual opportunity or the or or being recognized as an individual?
SPEAKER_00Well, when we're talking about collective bargaining and the teachers union, who is bargaining with whom? The union is bargaining with the government. But the government the relationship between the government and the teachers union is incestuous. The the teachers union is looking after the teachers, of course. But the government that they negotiate with, supposedly, is a major recipient of money from the teachers union. The um the teachers pay dues, they pay union dues, and a large portion of those union dues is circulated back to politicians in the form of donations. So when they're bargaining, uh whose interests are are being uh protected? Certainly not the public's because the the public has absolutely no bargaining power there. Um it's the it's the um givers of donations negotiating with the recipients of donations. So what do you expect to happen really? It's uh it it in my view, it's only a question of um how much, if any, limitations does the government have against the um the monetary demands of the unions. Um if I'm if I'm paying you, um if I'm paying you money and I'm negotiating with you, and you don't give me what I want, I can say to you, well, if you don't give me what I want, I'm gonna lower the amount of my contributions to you. So the uh so the ultimate result is really uh just a win-win for both the union and the government and a lose-lose for the students and their parents.
SPEAKER_01You couldn't put it better. We're really talking about the way in which, as you said, these negotiations take place and who is bargaining with whom and what is that desired outcome. And clearly that desired outcome is that level of control that the unions have to get their way, and not just, I would suspect, from a teaching and education perspective, but that money certainly going into consolidated revenue, if you will, can go to other places and have influence elsewhere because unions are connected to other unions and other sectors as well. It's it it it really does, as you said, place children and their families in a very vulnerable position. What's interesting is that we know that there is a link between unions and uh your Democrats, our Labor Party here in Australia, but uh these negotiations happen with the Republicans and our Liberal Party as well. Where does that place them in terms of their integrity?
SPEAKER_00Oh well, integrity has no place in this conversation. Um it really. Uh we we might as well you know, you might as well ask me, uh, when a man driving a car pulls up to a um street corner in a red light district and a woman in a short skirt leans into the car and they negotiate, where's the integrity? It's the exact same thing. There's there aren't even any parameters for integrity in negotiations between teachers union and the government. It's it's completely alien.
SPEAKER_01It it's incredible, isn't it? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And so it's both sides of politics benefiting here, and we know that the the rules of politics are g you know th there's only two rules. Number one, get in, number two, stay in. So if you if you have to sell your soul to keep your job, then you'll quite happily negotiate with unions regardless of which party you belong to. Now just on when sorry, just on that too, i uh y when there are major public events and major issues, the unions aren't far behind, are they? The uh for example, the No Kings event that's been taking place, uh I think the most recent ones, there are over three and a half thousand events around your great country. Now eight million people who were involved in these events were educators. So the unions are encouraging educators to attend these events uh for No Kings, anti-Trump uh uh campaigns. What does that say for unions, number one, and number two, the messaging they're giving to families and students.
SPEAKER_00Uh it what does it say? Uh well one of the things it says uh and referring to the fact that there were so many, you know, so-called educators, and I would put that word in quotes, scare quotes, uh, is that these so-called educators are so thoroughly marinated in politics that they shouldn't be allowed anywhere around students, uh because anyone who is so fanatically committed to uh partisan politics shouldn't be teaching. Um teaching teaching should be uh teaching should be a profession where a balanced set of views is pointed out and from all the videos I've seen of these No Kings protests, uh there is no room for balance. Have I seen, I don't know if you've seen, uh a number of videos where um somebody tries to interview some of these No Kings protesters and the merely asking them a question that seems to challenge their beliefs um provokes a violent response. Um, I wouldn't want anybody like that teaching my child. Um so to answer your question, it's a very sad commentary on the you know, just another one of many sad commentaries on the state of American education.
SPEAKER_01Indeed, and you you said, you know, inverted commas educators. In fact, many of these people could be considered political activists as their primary role and goal.
SPEAKER_00There's no there's no education in America, generally speaking, of course there are exceptions, but as a general rule, students in America do not get educated, they get indoctrinated, they come out of school knowing less than when they went in, and when they come out, uh they are um thoroughly saturated in a singular point of view which they can't defend if asked to.
SPEAKER_01My younger daughter went through a period where she had actually mastered the art of twisting everything I said and I was persistent and encouraging and firm about m maintaining these conversations in the best way possible. A couple of years later she said to me, Mum, I realised what I was doing. I I had been taught at school to do what I was doing, and it was all around this collectivism, it was all around some of the issues that you and I are very familiar with in terms of you know transgenderism and uh you know identity issues that are supported and as you said indoctrinated in in our children when they're at school. And I was really proud of her for coming out the other side and realizing just how evil and I'll use that word evil the behaviours are of some educators to instill that sort of behavior in students. You'd get that in the States too.
SPEAKER_00Yes, you're very lucky that you rescued your daughter from that because I think the majority of students who um uh you know absorb that point of view uh never go back. Um in in most of the cases I've seen, if you try to discuss, you know, uh try to talk the student out of that viewpoint, uh what you get in return is insults. You're a fascist, you're a racist, yep. You know, it's uh there's no discussion, there's simply rejection.
SPEAKER_01Indeed. And one thing that she said to me, she said, Mum, they they were telling us that you're going to get pushback from your parents. They're going to try and persuade you to believe or or have a view a different way. You have to push back on that. And they were actually taught to gaslight. And I, again, you know, was very firm and and careful the way I spoke to her about this as she was going through it and saying, you know, you sure, you sure this is, you know, where's the evidence here and and tell me more, um, explain yourself a bit more. I'm not quite sure, I don't quite understand. And it and that's where I think also the information started to sink in that she didn't have the knowledge. She was a target for this behaviour, and yes, we we we came out the other side. So there are masterful ways in which this control has infiltrated our education system. Do you think the unions are part of that?
SPEAKER_00Definitely. It wouldn't happen. It it would not happen unless the unions were supporting it. If the unions were not in favor of having teachers indoctrinate students in far-less ideology, it would not happen. Okay. Um they uh the unions would get involved in uh pushing back on that curriculum. Uh they um uh uh uh they would instruct the teachers, for example, to be sure to present balanced points of view, but they don't. I mean who's telling the teachers what to teach? Uh curriculum is determined by school boards. Who influences the school boards? The unions. Why? Because that's where all the money is. The the um concentration of money in unions, any union, like the the concentration of vast amounts of money gives them the power to determine uh the agenda. Which is exactly what they do. There's the what one thing, and this is not gonna happen, but you know, one one thing that might help the situation is that there were competing unions. You know, suppose suppose there was a relatively conservative teachers union competing against, you know, the the current union, then maybe, maybe they would would have to negotiate with each other to achieve some balance, but you don't have any balance. All the weight is on one end of the scale. So so nothing is going to improve until there is some kind of force that puts weight on the other end of the scale.
SPEAKER_01You're right. So we need com we need competition. Absolutely. We need competition, but which that certainly goes against the whole, you know, ethos of the unions in the first place, but that's a good point. And the other point where it's a very sore point is President Trump, uh his move to dismantle the Federal Department of Education. Now, one of the ways in which he has started to act on that is the student loan portfolio,$1.7 trillion, and he's transferred that across to the Department of Treasury. Well that makes perfect sense because we're talking finance, and the unions are up in arms about that. So that's likely because they've lost a major negotiating tool, but they've also lost control of those students because the students are no longer under the umbrella of the education department. Is that that's how I see it. Is that how you see it?
SPEAKER_00Um, let's let's talk about the Department of Education for a moment. What does the Department of Education do? It doesn't educate. The Department of Education does not contribute to the education of a single student. What the Department of Education does is administer programs and distributes money. The Department of Education was created in 1979 under President Jimmy Carter at the urging of the Teachers Union. There was plenty of education around before the Department of Education existed, but since the Department of Education was created, test scores among students have plummeted. So it can be validly said that the Department of Education has been a major factor in the lowering of educational standards. Students are much less educated because of the Department of Education.
SPEAKER_01So what we're actually saying is that that back to our point earlier on, essentially we could suggest that the Department of Education was created at the request of the unions to move money around. And I've said this for a long, long time here in Australia. It's purely a checkbook for the unions.
SPEAKER_00It's a big fat money laundry.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_00And remember that that money laundry, the the the circle of you know the circulation of money in the money laundry goes back to the politicians who get the political donation.
SPEAKER_01Yes, indeed, indeed. And so here we have that gone and the Department of Treasury now controlling these loans under this dismantling of the Department of Ed under President Trump. That's a lot of students that the unions no longer have control over. You can see them being up in arms about that. He's also moved about 118 programs out of the Department of Education to other agencies. So it seems as though these programs, not just connected to schools, but the umbrella of education could be enormous, uh, Lawrence, in terms of what we really don't know on a a citizen level because of all of these hidden negotiations that might be going on as well.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and it's all about money. It's all about money and it has nothing to do with education. Um the if I were to sum up the entire topic of education in America, it would be you have schools who don't teach, who are babysitting, students who can't learn. That's the long and the short of it. And the only reason that it persists that way is to move the money around to the people who profit from it.
SPEAKER_01It is more than disheartening, but uh it is certainly exactly what's taking place here in Australia. People will succeed despite the broken system. And that is very sad that it is that way, that there are students who will s survive and succeed regardless. It's everyone else that is of concern. It it's it it's so disheartening.
SPEAKER_00Um this extremely hostile environment.
SPEAKER_01Yes, and indeed uh it's the other ones we have to look out for. Lawrence, your your discussions are always of tremendous interest, and the relationship between the United States and Australia is one that's a very close one, one that's important, which is why it's always great to have you on the show. And more importantly, the issues that you're dealing with in the United States are not really dissimilar to what's happening here in Australia. So it's always great every week to get this synergy and context. So thanks again for being on the show today and look forward to your conversation next week. And thank you. See you next week. Okay, have a great week and and God bless. Lawrence Rojak, our union speaker today, he's really our US correspondent each week, and we're talking about unions. And no, he wasn't our union speaker because the unions would not have liked a lot of what Lawrence had to say. Interesting, though, that the issues facing the United States with unions are not dissimilar to the issues we have here in Australia, and the fact that Lawrence has stated that it's a big money laundering factory, the Federal Department of Education that has been dismantled by President Trump. We need the same thing here. We need actually more than that, we need our education, in my view, to be independent of government. You're listening to the Cheryl Lacey Show. It's been terrific uh having you as part of this conversation and uh This is where we do stay courageous in our conversations and we are curious about all manner of things, education and everything that affects us.