The Cheryl Lacey Show
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The Cheryl Lacey Show
WHERE'S DAD? The nuclear family and the men children need
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It's a question too many children are asking. What does relinquishment of the nuclear family, the replaceable role of fathers, and the narrative in schools tell us about what children need when dad isn't in the picture? What is society telling our children when being brave and masculine could be the first step toward arrest?
A conversation with Peter Richardson.
You're listening to the Cheryl Acey Show where Curiosity Meets Courage and I'm so glad you're here because we have got a conversation coming up which is going to tickle everyone's fancy, I'm sure. Peter Richardson is our resident gentleman who discusses issues on men, the law and society more broadly. And when we have these conversations, we dive into some really important matters that aren't discussed often enough, particularly through mainstream media, but also on social media there's a lot of commentary, but not a lot regarding solutions, if you will, or directions moving forward. And that's what Peter often likes to do and share with us when we have these important conversations. And today we're going to be discussing the nuclear family. Peter, welcome to the show.
SPEAKER_00Good morning, Cheryl and listeners.
SPEAKER_01Peter, I tell you what, what a morning to be discussing this important issue with what's happening around the world and the impending 10 a.m. deadline that President Trump has put on the rulers of Iran and the way in which that society has been impacted. We've got a lot to learn from that society and what President Trump is doing as well in his leadership, more importantly, the flow-on effects here for not just Australia but Western civilization and how we value or undervalue families.
SPEAKER_00I'm supposed to be doing that to you.
SPEAKER_01I how did how did that happen?
SPEAKER_00Well, uh you've got to be on your toe, Cheryl.
SPEAKER_01Indeed.
SPEAKER_00It comes out of something uh that happened yesterday with the um arrest of Ben Robert Smith.
SPEAKER_01Oh look, I was going to get onto that as well. Uh so if you want to start with that, we can start with that because that is mind blowing. I am discussing that in further detail afterwards on the show at uh with uh Mike Holt at 830. However, just a quick uh snippet of your views would be great, why not?
SPEAKER_00Um okay, so we are judging this man by the rules of war. Uh I find that uh just I think the right word is an anachronism. Um because we as I suppose I'll say Westerners but uh allies if you like, uh we uh are expected to um uh follow the rules of war, abide by the rules of war when our opponents don't do that. And uh that leads to us not winning wars. Uh we've been uh uh generally speaking abiding by the rules of war for a long time now, you might say since the Second World War, and you could quite fairly say that we haven't won a war since then. Um so when you don't win wars, lots of people die uh for no result. So um I question the uh uh strategy of of abiding by the rules of war, because if we look back in the past Second World War, let's say, um what happened is that uh the Allies won the w won the war by not abiding by any particular rules of war. What we did uh and it was in return for what Germany did to Britain and other countries, is that we bombed the hell out of Germany. Now that wasn't a b uh abiding by the current day rules of war, uh but it got the job done and and sadly, uh as I say, if you d if you are going to abide by rules of war, um lots of people die anyway, and uh and it's generally for no resolve.
SPEAKER_01Um indeed, and it comes it does come back to uh my introductory comment as well with Iran and what's happening there, because you know there are rules of war that we are all watching very closely, and the commentary in particular, I'm sure you've seen this morning's news and what's being discussed there and the the the major comment that President Trump has said a whole civilization will die tonight. Now, you know, that's one sentence in a lengthy social media post that he did on True Social, and it's again, you know, we have to be very, very careful with what we read and what we digest. He is talking about exactly what you're saying. There are no rules when it comes to what's happening in Iran. And he's actually talking about the leaders and the impact they are having on an entire civilisation, their own people. So that and the Ben Roberts, we're we're we're actually getting a double whammy. So bringing it back to the family unit, we've got to really remember that there are people dying for our safety and security all the time. And there are people dying who are wanting to see Western civilization fall apart. What does that mean for families generally uh particularly given that we don't seem to value the nuclear family anymore? Is it fair to say that these not uh abiding by the rules of war uh has had some sort of impact on on the fallout with nuclear families? There's a lack of respect?
SPEAKER_00I think that uh the problem we've got is that um uh the lack of respect for males in this society now, uh quite uh comes from the top. And it's uh it's pretty hard to respect a lot of our leaders and a lot of those leaders are males, but um uh that shouldn't apply down through the the levels of society and we should be valuing um the male contribution to the nuclear family more than what we are.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely, absolutely, and I'm wondering also whether or not given as you've pointed out, we've got the Ben Robert Smith issue issue and we've also got the Iran war happening as we speak. We seem to have forgotten that the masculinity that uh is pr ever present in males, like it or not, is very important when it comes to not only protecting our nations but also protecting our families. Now I can hear some listeners saying, hang on a minute, that's a bit sexist. This is not sexist. Let's let's focus on reality here. If we're undervaluing men, we're undervaluing strength. Would you agree with that m or not?
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. Uh um I will ask you this question, Cheryl, and and this is an extreme case, but um if uh Ben Fr Robert Smith happened to be walking down the street with you and uh pretty much anywhere in the world, would you feel pretty safe?
SPEAKER_01Oh, absolutely. Absolutely, and that you great way to phrase it there. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00And we created that. We our government, our military forces created that man and created him to go and do a job. And uh and when he went and did that job, um now we're uh sacrificing him. We're uh I I actually made a note about um breaking around and Peter Hancock from the um poor war and how uh they were executed um for political expediency.
SPEAKER_01Look, the the list goes on, doesn't it, with the way in which we we're quite happy to send people off to war and then we're quite happy to complain about the outcome at another point in time. And let's not forget that in any of these cases it's the after-effect, it's the after the event and the after-effects that give rise to these conversations. And uh back to the masculinity, back to the lack of regard for men generally, everybody suffers as a result. So let's move on a little bit to toward specifically families here and the nuclear family and the role of men and women today in families, if if they are intact with both mum and dad, the shift in thinking around how men father their children because of these changing narratives around the roles of men and women?
SPEAKER_00There's there's lots of situations here obviously, lots of scenarios, and sometimes uh fathers are absent, so it's very difficult for um uh for them to father their children and obvious obviously a lot of the time it's by their choice. Um but we need to encourage men to father their children, um, because children need a balance. They need the the balance of the um the the couple, the male and the female, uh contributing to their upbringing and um I didn't you know, I'll I'll state it here, I didn't have a great father, I had a really good mother. Uh but uh the uh the thing that you've already mentioned about the uh twelve-year-old kids not being able to tie their own shoelaces, what my dad would have contributed to that situation is if my mother uh was mothering me to the point of not teaching me um to tie my shoelaces by the time I was twelve years old, he would have stepped in and made sure that I did what I needed to do for myself because our job as parents is to prepare our kids for um th their life in the future without without us around.
SPEAKER_01Now, just for our listeners, uh I mentioned in the introduction of at of the show there may be mention of shoelaces, but we didn't quite uh go through the whole story there, and this was relative to what was in the newspaper yesterday for our listeners, where schools are jumping up and down because they're having teachers are having to tie shoelaces for young children, and then others said, Well, hang on, it's not just young children, as you said Peter, there it could be up to twel twelve years of old uh sorry, twelve years of age, where children are not able to tie their shoelaces, and the issue is is it the role of the teacher or isn't it the role of the teacher? What are your thoughts on it, Peter?
SPEAKER_00Um, I think it's only the role of the teacher because parents aren't doing the job themselves. Um so someone's got to do it, but uh the preferences in this case, I mean there's this there's obviously um teachers are teaching, um, but they're um the more things that they have to teach their students, the less of the traditional teaching that they can do.
SPEAKER_01I'm see I'm I'm a little bit s sitting on the fence on this one. Number one we've really got to take stock here, and if an educator has got their smarts about them, which many of them do, me some of them do not, but let's focus on those that do. They wouldn't be complaining about this because they would be identifying this need and they would see it as a teaching opportunity and that's a first step. They would the second thing is that they would see the value in fine motor coordination and hand-eye coordination and that being a very, very important uh foundation for all other skills, and so they wouldn't see it as a negative at all for the students to learn this. And thirdly, what they would be saying is there are parents that haven't taught their children for whatever reason. The uh preschools, if they've attended preschools or long daycare, it hasn't been taught there. So we've had educators who haven't done that uh prior to the children starting school. And the parents obviously if it's happened, they haven't. The teacher would make sure that the students did learn to do so rather than these current teachers complaining that they have to. So they're not teaching or handing responsibility and encouraging that responsibility that you spoke of that parents should be doing. That's the way I read it.
SPEAKER_00I just I think the uh the problem is that the shoelaces are just one symptom. And uh I think that the teachers probably have to teach a lot more than just um tying shoelaces and that's where the problem comes in. Uh that's uh and and obviously disciplines are an issue, so they're spending so much time uh discipline disciplining kids to the point that they are allowed to these days because of the disruptiveness in the class. Um if it was just the shoelaces, what's what's uh you're saying possibly is that uh that would actually create some sort of a connection with the child, etc. Um and that would be a good thing, but I just don't think they've got the time anymore. Uh and maybe they haven't got the ability anymore either.
SPEAKER_01You're on eighty eight point nine Win FM, the Cheryl Lacey show, we're speaking with Peter Richardson about the nuclear family and in particular the role of men. We've spoken a little bit about the war in Iran and Ben Roberts Smith, who has been charged, arrested with war crimes. And we've now moved on to the school system where teachers are feeling as though they are parenting more often or too often rather than educating. So we're going to take a short break. Peter, don't go away, stay there. We'll take a short break and we'll come back to this discussion in just a moment. You're listening to the Cheryl Lacey show on 88.9 WinfM and we have Peter Richardson with us discussing the nuclear family and the role of men in society. Peter, we were talking about the war and how men particularly were sent to war to defend our nation, and then we have moved into schools and the role of educators and your stand that no, they shouldn't be parenting, they should be focusing on the curriculum. And I suggested that there are opportunities and good educators would see the opportunity to ensure students have the independence to tie their shoelaces, be it whether their parents taught them or not. Let's talk about the nuclear family a little bit more in the school system. We've got a lot of women in the education system. Do you think that's a problem as well?
SPEAKER_00I think we need uh I think there might be a shortage of teachers, so there may not be uh too many women, but there's certainly too few men. Um men uh are often great teachers and uh I can understand why there's not uh why there's a an issue with getting men into the uh industry because um it can create some problems for them.
SPEAKER_01What do you mean by that?
SPEAKER_00Well, I think they're very vulnerable as far as uh claims that are made um uh when it comes to abuse, etcetera. So um I I can see uh them being a bit edgy.
SPEAKER_01Very interesting. So what we've got is women who are educators who don't want a parent but are also narky that they've got to work with men. Is that what you're saying?
SPEAKER_00Uh no, I no, I'm I'm not talking about the uh the link between uh male and female teachers. I'm talking about more uh male teachers and and children and the um uh the tendency to jump to the wrong conclusions these days.
SPEAKER_01But who would be jumping to those conclusions if it's not the educators, it's parents, and would men jump to the conclusion against men?
SPEAKER_00I think there's a fair chance of that, yes. Because there's there's there's really this uh th society's created this suspicion against all men. Um and and that's really sad because uh the predators are very small in number, but um I think it's been um blown out of proportion uh the the uh the potential dangers.
SPEAKER_01Oh, I couldn't agree more with that. How do you think we can resolve this issue of the the nuclear family falling apart or being very low in number?
SPEAKER_00Somehow we've got to um create a a society where people stay together longer. Um and and I'll put my hand up. I've I've been divorced, I I managed to get my youngest to about thirteen years old before uh my marriage broke down, so um uh but ideally I should have stayed well ideally I should have stayed around longer, but obviously there's a a situation where uh at times it it can be the wrong thing even for the kids to uh for the marriage to stay together. And I think that was the situation with my marriage. Um but I certainly still contributed a lot to to my kids after that time.
SPEAKER_01Well that's the thing, isn't it? You may not live under the same roof, but you can still be a part of or should be a part of your children's lives, and so that male role model is still there. I wonder where grandparents fit into this because there we've got over a million single parent households. The vast majority of those are women in the country. That's a lot of children without a male role model, and grandfathers I suspect would be stepping up to the plate in this case if that is at all possible. Do you think that the older generation of males are good role models for our young boys?
SPEAKER_00I think certainly, yes. Uh but the thing I'd say about that is that grandparents should be just being grandparents. Uh so what does happen, and I'm not going to label every single mother with this as far as um uh what they do with the relationship between their their exes, uh, but at times the male uh or the father in this case is blocked, is uh pushed away, um vilified. Um women do have to recognise and and keep in mind that obviously all not all fathers are up to the job, but some are, and I've known many that are, and they've been uh blocked in many ways in contributing to their their children's upbringing. Um please, uh women that that are out there uh don't be doing that for the wrong reasons and give good fathers a chance to be fathers.
SPEAKER_01It's the assumption also that all mothers are good mothers, if we're saying that these mothers are able to suggest that their male counterpart is not doing a good job. It's a very, very divisive situation because we know people are people and you've got good, bad, indifferent and frightened all sorts of emotions going on when families do break down. And for men in particular, having to start all over again is quite a difficult one, isn't it? If if the nuclear family breaks down, they're not only paying maintenance and trying to keep connected with their children, they're also trying to start their new lives again.
SPEAKER_00Certainly. Um and it's it's certainly harder if if they don't have if a good father doesn't have contact with with their own children, um it's it mu leaves a massive hole and probably makes it incredibly hard for them to get on with life in in the areas that they need to.
SPEAKER_01Mm, indeed. So Peter we can talk about the issues involved with trying to recreate these nuclear families and we can also talk about the shoulds and what should be happening. There we go again, a should. We have to focus on reality and the ra reality is that young boys in particular are missing out on male role models in their lives. What can we do right now?
SPEAKER_00Uh it's uh we need leadership from the top and we're not getting it. But uh as far as if you're talking about an individual mother um and and maybe a situation where uh the father wasn't a good father or the father deserted them, doesn't want to have contact with children, they do need to search for a good role role model and the places to look uh are uh places like sporting clubs, etcetera, uh scouts or along those lines. Um and the thing that I would say is that women shouldn't be thinking that they can do it on their own because they're not equipped to do it, just like men aren't equipped to to do what women are doing. There there needs to be a balance in the upbringing of children and I I'd have to say probably most particularly um boys. Uh it it really does need that balance.
SPEAKER_01I think what we're really saying is is that if we all are aware of these situations, even the way in which we ourselves behave in public, uh men again starting to Stand up to allow women to sit on public transport or or boys in school uniforms, enabling uh older women to sit down, or you know, those old people say it's old fashioned and so forth, but some of those common courtesies ultimately lead to that genuine regard and respect for one another in ways that it's been lost. So we could all participate on a daily basis and even just a a a a s small conversation with with kids in you know, public transport coming to and from school, uh the way in which we communicate in the workplace, the conversations that we have, do you think they could all contribute to a better way in which we view and see one another?
SPEAKER_00Absolutely, and uh it's interesting you bring up public transport, uh, because it came to mind to me just then that um the other conversation that needs to be had is men need to step up, uh and they need to be good, strong role models. I was on I was actually on a train, which is pretty rare for me yesterday, and I was coming home and um in the next carriage, but uh I could see what was going on. Um a father was had uh had his two daughters with him and uh next thing they're um standing on the seat, jumping up on the uh um and hanging from the um overhead rails, uh using them as monkey bars basically. And um yeah, that man should have been saying to his daughters, that's not right. Uh don't put your feet on the seat. This is not designed to be monkey bars. Sit and be reasonable. And they weren't they were um probably ten and twelve years old. So they were kids that's um should have known better.
SPEAKER_01Indeed. Good way to finish the conversation there, Peter. We all need to step up and we all should know better when we know we are not doing what is appropriate nor being an appropriate role model. Thank you for this discussion. It's an important one, and no doubt you'll have a another terrific uh topic for me next time we catch up. So, Peter, thanks again for being on the show.
SPEAKER_00Thanks, Al, and thanks listeners for the Pleasure.
SPEAKER_01Peter Richardson, our men, law and society commentator discussing the nuclear family and the impact that uh the nuclear family in its absence has on society in the way in which all of us can participate in some way to reconnect and to have a healthier society right across the board.