TRANS TRUTH AND TRUMP Reality is non-negotiable

Sex is biological. Gender is a social construct. And a defence force exists to win wars, not to serve as a platform for social experimentation. The Trump administration made decisive steps to restore clear, science-based definitions of male and female across federal policy, military readiness, standards, and cohesion. Objective reality is non-negotiable. Isn't it? Straightforward and prepared for anything Lawrence and Cheryl are unafraid to say what many are thinking.

A conversation with Lawrence Rojak

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:13

Just a reminder to keep an eye on the news this morning, the statements made about President Trump are quite extraordinary. The one statement coming out of his Truth Social post one sentence, a whole civilisation will die tonight. And that is, as I said, just one sentence of many. And Sky News is already reporting that about 75% of Australians are not happy with President Trump and don't like him, essentially. It is horrendous, horrendous media hype where only a portion of someone's statement is being used as a political weapon. And particularly in times like this, 10am is our deadline this morning, two hours away before we know what President Trump will be doing. And to be playing politics with something as serious and dangerous as the Iranian regime is something that our media should be ashamed of, in my view, but also all of us need to be vigilant in our understanding of what's really going on. So keep an eye on that. And also the other news regarding wars, we have been Robert Smith, our former SAS soldier. And Victoria Cross winner has just been arrested on allegations of war crimes. So again, the bringing down of strong men who are there to protect and preserve Western civilization essentially under attack. And right now we have the wonderful, as always, Lawrence Rojak, our US correspondent, who is going to be discussing something completely different. Mind you, the war might come into it a little bit. We're going to be discussing the trans issues in the United States. Lawrence, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_00 1:59

Good morning, Australia.

SPEAKER_01 2:01

Lawrence, in fact, I might start right there because President Trump has been quite proactive in getting uh rid of trans men from the US Defence Force, is that correct? I'm sorry, I I I didn't hear all of that, but the President Trump has been quite vocal regarding trans men in the Defence Force.

SPEAKER_00 2:24

Oh, yes. Um he uh his his position is that uh the military is not the right place for social experiments, which is a perfectly logical kind of uh point of view. I mean after all the uh the purpose of the military is to defend the country, not to test out new theories about social relations. Now somebody could counter that by saying, Well, they used to say that about uh the days when the American armed forces had racial segregation uh and and that uh the idea of uh integrating the uh the armed forces was a social experiment. But I personally don't believe that uh race and ethnicity falls into the same category as sexuality.

SPEAKER_01 3:38

Can you just uh can you tell us why that Lawrence, you you're saying it doesn't fall into the same cat category? Is that because of, as you said, social experiments or is there something else behind that?

SPEAKER_00 3:51

Well um w well first of all, um race and it's uh and ethnicity are things that are not a matter of opinion um or feelings.

unknown 4:06

Uh a person's race is usually something that is well established, obvious, and not controversial.

SPEAKER_00 4:17

Um African Americans or not just African Americans, but but people of African origin, uh black people, uh there's no controversy that they're black, uh Chinese people, there's no controversy that they're Chinese.

SPEAKER_01 4:37

Uh that we're European essentially.

SPEAKER_00 4:42

Uh yeah, I mean people people are what they are and it doesn't change based on their feelings. It's not subjective.

SPEAKER_02 4:51

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 4:52

It's uh it's objective. Um w uh unlike sexuality, which um is subject to change, uh, is dependent on feelings and cannot be objectively proven. So uh that in my opinion, that's what puts sexuality uh in a different category. Another thing that puts sexuality in a different category is behavior. Um uh black, white, uh Asian, brown people um are all in uh complete control of how they behave and uh they have no problem behaving the same under a given set of rules or circumstances. Whereas what distinguishes sexuality is the way people behave. Um so behavior and identity are two different things, um which is another thing that that set that sets sexual identity apart from ethnicity. So there's that.

SPEAKER_01 6:12

Yeah, you're spot on there. It's interesting, isn't it? Because when we go back to this and you you're absolutely correct when you say we're distinguishing between what's objective and what's subjective. Uh so essentially we're discussing reality. And the reality is that there is a difference between sex and gender. And my understanding through the work that President Trump has been doing is he's made it very clear that that is the absolute uh distinction that he makes in some of the laws that he's been authorising. And one of them in particular does actually say the purpose of this United States Code 7301, Title V, not that that matters really where it's come from for our listeners, but uh I'm just looking at it as I'm discussing it. That biological reality of sex and the denial of that, where there are two sexes, is really driving this change in in social cohesion and we've got this coerciveness taking place. And so he's wanting to get rid of this self-identification on a subjective basis. Are you seeing fallout from this, Lawrence?

SPEAKER_00 7:32

Nothing really beyond the usual um emotional outbursts from people who feel that uh whatever a person identifies as, you know, is the reality, uh and and that any attempt to apply objective scientific standards to it is uh not just discriminatory, but uh you know, they throw around uh the usual hyperbole, you know, it's fascism. I've actually seen people say that believing that there are only two genders is fascism.

SPEAKER_02 8:16

Oh, you're kidding.

SPEAKER_00 8:18

Oh no, I've I've seen it. Uh I've seen it on col you know, in in videos of debates and protests on college campuses. Um and what this uh what this all comes down to in, you know, again, this this is my personal point of view, but it's also my opinion, you know, a as an attorney, is that there is a great deal of difference between what you have a right to believe and what you can force other people to believe. Um to begin, I would say that people have a right to believe whatever they want. If a biological man believes that he's a woman, he's got a right to believe that. Nobody has a right to tell him that he can't. But but he does not have a right, he or she or whatever you want to call they, does not have a right to compel other people to believe it. So if I, for example, am talking with a trans person and that trans person says, you know, I identify as a woman, I have a right to say, well, that's fine for you to believe, but I don't believe it. I have a right not to believe it. And by extension, I have a right not to alter my own behavior in order to accommodate their beliefs. Let's compare that to religion. If a person has any uh any of the uh you know, most popular religious beliefs, um, you know, the the dogma and the you know the basic tenets of their religion, they have a right to believe that. But they do not have a right to force other people to say that they believe it too. Uh and now I'm Jewish. Uh my religion says that Saturday is the Sabbath and it's the day of rest when you're not supposed to do any work, and I have a right to believe that. But I do not have a right to tell Christians or to force Christians to start observing Saturday as the Sabbath, because that's their belief that they have a right to believe. So belief and rights are two different things. Transgender people have a right to believe whatever they want, but they do not have a right to compel other people to believe it, nor to change their behavior. Now the flash points in the transgender controversy usually comes down to three areas restrooms, offer rooms, and uh what was the third thing? Sport. Um the top of my head. Uh tip my tongue. Uh let's let's oh oh and teams, sports teams.

unknown 11:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:38

Okay. So uh a biological man has a perfect right to believe that he's a woman. However, women instead of calling women real women, uh let me be uh more generous and call them traditional women, okay? Traditional women have rights. And one of the rights that they have, which is well established in our society, is the right to exclude men from certain places, like restrooms and loffer rooms and sports teams. The transgender advocates say that the beliefs of trans women override the beliefs of traditional women. So therefore, the the uh the belief of a transgender woman overrides the right of a traditional woman not to have men in their bathrooms, not to have men in their locker rooms, and not to have men on their sports teams. There is no um there is no logical or rational argument, in my point of view, why transgender rights overcome and override the rights of traditional women. Now, from a philosophical standpoint, something that is truly a right cannot clash with something else that is truly a right.

SPEAKER_01 13:17

Um so Well it's a bit it's a bit like that uh, you know, you uh something can't be one thing and something else at the same time. You for example, you can't be half pregnant, can you? You're either pregnant or you're not. So you're either you're either a male or you're not a male, how you choose to dress and behave and what you are attracted to, whole other story. No issue there that you have that freedom and choice. But the truth is you are a male.

SPEAKER_00 13:46

True. And when it comes to transgender rights, from a legal st standpoint, in my opinion, transgender people have a right to not be bothered, not be um uh attacked, you know, not to have violence committed on them, to go to public places the same as everybody else. In other words, transgender people have the same general rights as other people. If you list all of the rights that every American has, transgender people have those rights too. But what their advocates say is that they should have rights that override other people's rights, and that's where they cross the line and where I believe they're wrong. So what is the what do we do about things like restrooms? Well, the transgender people have a dilemma. Their um their need to use a restroom cannot and should not override traditional women's rights not to have men in their restrooms, and just because a transgender woman feels like a woman does not make her one. Why? Because it cannot be objectively scientifically proven.

SPEAKER_01 15:18

Couldn't agree more. And you know what's really strange, Lawrence, is that there are already unisex toilets everywhere. You go to restaurants, you go out to socially to you know various other venues, and there will be unisex toilets. So there are shared spaces in existence already, and that's from a uh a logistics point of view more than anything else. So there is no problem. There is no problem. That that doesn't mean exactly as you said, that it it gives them the right to move into a an all female space.

SPEAKER_00 15:57

Uh I I agree, and uh unisex bathrooms are probably the solution to the problem. Um and uh transgender people, in fact, transgender people because they are a category.

unknown 16:16

Because if if because if a trans woman was a woman, you wouldn't call them a trans woman. And if a trans man was a man, you wouldn't call them a trans man.

SPEAKER_00 16:25

So trans people, as a practical matter, probably need a category of their own, their own restrooms, their own sports teams, where uh access and utilization are are on an equal basis and don't infringe on anybody else's rights. If they are as they claim to be, a um you know, a recognized category, a recognized group, then they should have recognized spaces. That I think solves the problem. And it's non-discriminatory. And it it doesn't force other people to give up any of their rights.

SPEAKER_01 17:17

No, look, absolutely I agree with that. Can we just go back for a minute? I'm really fascinated by the definitions that the White House have put out regarding biological truth. And if I could just share this with you, Lawrence, as a lawyer, I have no doubt that it will be of interest to you with regard to what's being stated. Not only does the White House state quite categorically that there is a difference between sex and gender, as we've just discussed, it also goes down to the definition of a female. This is fascinating. A female means a person belonging at conception to the sex that produces the large reproductive cell. It then goes on to define the male as the male means a person belonging at conception to the sex that produces the small reproductive cell. I think that's absolutely extraordinary. So what we're doing here, the White House, is identifying males and females at conception, not waiting until a legal document, birth certificate, comes into play that can be tampered with.

SPEAKER_00 18:42

Uh it's good because it's scientific. And uh ironically, the people who constantly claim that they believe in science uh don't believe in science when it comes to sex and gender. Um they uh they reject science and uh adopt feelings. It is important, I believe, to apply science to this topic the same way we do to everything else, because science is objective. Science doesn't rely on feelings, um science doesn't discriminate, science doesn't uh violate anybody's rights. The reason that some people don't want to accept science here is because it's not what they want. And the um uh the counterpoint to many of the transgender arguments is that you can't get everything that you want just because you want it.

unknown 19:56

Other people do not have to accommodate your subjective reality.

SPEAKER_00 20:02

And that applies to pronouns too. Um a person has a right to say, these are my pronouns, but nobody has an obligation to be bound by that.

SPEAKER_01 20:15

Absolutely. And there's also the issue of discrimination. One of the ones that I find absolutely fascinating is this uh title called gender nonconformity or gender variance. And this is based on the mannerisms and behaviour that people choose to display. And an example given is that some women don't wear makeup but otherwise dress in a feminine way. So this there it is implied that this is gender nonconformity. In other words, if they wear makeup and dress in a feminine way, we really know they're women. But if they don't wear makeup and dress in a feminine way, they're non-conforming. This is getting beyond ridiculous. What do you think about this sort of narrative that's adding fuel to this fire?

SPEAKER_00 21:14

I think that there are people out there who simply want to be different so badly that they they want to rewrite uh the rules of reality. Now um the idea of gender non-conforming has to it is rooted in a belief that people of the male and female genders must behave in a certain way, uh or or should behave in a certain way, when actually that is not true at all. Men uh come in a whole range from hyper masculine to, you know, soft and a and emotional. And all of those are all of those fall under the the definition of what a man is. Yeah, I mean we've got poets and we've got athletes and th they're all men, they're all masculine. And it's the same for women. You you have women who are tough and can knock you out. And then we have you know women who are super feminine and everything in between and they're all women. They're all you know female. And so the this idea of gender nonconformity I believe is rooted in a mistaken belief that there's only one way to you know to act like a man and there's only one way to act like a woman, which is not true.

SPEAKER_01 22:57

And I agree with you there too and in that it's also the fact that people possibly are screaming to be heard, wanting to be different or they are they do they they're still working through how they fit in this world and that's okay because we all go through that at various stages in our lives. I think it comes back to what you said about the right to do and be who you are without overshadowing or enforcing that on others.

SPEAKER_00 23:32

Yeah and and in many cases um you know the uh these people with these alternative uh gender beliefs it it strikes me as being that they're so insecure that it's not enough for them to just be what they want to be. They want validation from the outside and they're not entitled to it. Um just just like anybody in any point in history who has been you know a little different um uh they that they have a right to be different but they don't have a right to be validated. Um and and therein is the problem. They want to force other people to validate them. And they don't have that right. And and there's instead of getting the pushback that they should get uh they're being enabled by people who are just enablers of of all kinds of unhealthy behavior by nature. Um they you know some people say well you know you're being intolerant if you you know don't acknowledge people's pronouns and people's gender identity. No intolerance is when you attack them. Not accepting their beliefs is not intolerance any more than not accepting somebody else's religious beliefs is intolerant. Couldn't agree more couldn't agree more on yes thank you the intolerance is when you don't let other people believe what they want to believe.

SPEAKER_01 25:19

Agreed. And that's the we get forced to exactly look and this is the whole thing isn't it that uh we we are looking at reality and this is a tough call for many many people and reality is the stand that we must continue to make. And subjectivity certainly has its place there's no question about that but subjectivity doesn't exist without reality first and without an objective view. So Lawrence terrific to have this conversation it's a challenging one for many and I know the listeners will appreciate the way in which you've approached it by comparing as you said race and religion and some of the other issues that we've raised today. So terrific to have you on the show again look forward to your company next week.

SPEAKER_00 26:07

Thank you see you next week.

SPEAKER_01 26:08

See you next week Lawrence Rojak our US correspondence discussing trans issues in the United States we'll be back with more shortly the Sheryl AC show where Curiosity meets curry