BIKE BOY 000 - Wrong Call. What really happened?

When a teenager lies seriously injured on the road, the first instinct should be simple: call 000. 

Not so in the infamous Bike Boy case involving former Premier Daniel Andrews and his wife Katherine. 

A not to be missed conversation with Scott Hanley - private investigator - on phone calls, photographs and so much more.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:11

And you are listening to the Cheryl Lacey Show where curiosity meets courage. We have got an incredibly courageous guest on now, and a conversation that so many listeners are keen to hear. It's a top 1% crime story for podcasts. And this is all about our former Premier, Dan Andrews, and the Bike Boy incident. Scott Hanley, former senior constable, was directly involved and is now a private investigator. Scott, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_01 0:44

Thank you, Cheryl. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_02 0:46

My pleasure. Now tell me, before we begin, this podcast is incredible with the number of people that have been listening. There's a second series coming out, isn't there?

SPEAKER_01 0:55

Yeah, I think the second episode of the second series dropped this morning. No, it's been amazing. It's been fantastic the reception we've got from the podcast. I think it was right up there. I think of the top two or three crime podcasts in Australia. So it's but it's been amazing.

SPEAKER_02 1:08

It has been amazing, and all credit to everybody else involved as well. And your direct involvement is quite broad, isn't it? So perhaps we could start there. Tell us a little bit about how you actually came to be directly involved in this case.

SPEAKER_01 1:23

It's a bit of a long story, but I'll start. So basically I I was contacted on a police veterans page on Facebook and another ex-police member who's involved in this investigation was reaching out for some imp you know some information basically about when I was working at Rosebud. So I spoke to him and it just started from there. I just said, look, it just so happens that I was initially involved in this this accident and I was obviously out of the police force by then, so I had no limitations of what I could do and what I could say. So I jumped on board and that's how I started.

SPEAKER_02 1:52

This is the incident that occurred down at Bleag back in 2013. So we're talking 13 years ago, and we still haven't had resolutions. There are a lot of unanswered questions, a lot of questions our listeners would have, but certainly a lot that hasn't been disclosed in court and also IBAC. There was a 2017 IBAC inquiry and they said there's no areas of concern. Let's move on. So now we have the defamation situation that has escalated this whole situation again, and I'm sure these are the sorts of things that we're going to be discussing today. I'll hand over to Peter who's keen to say hello as well.

SPEAKER_00 2:34

We've spoken a few times. Good to hear from you. I want to go back to day one. So your initial involvement, if anyone hasn't listened to the podcast, they won't know about your initial involvement.

SPEAKER_01 2:49

Yeah, so I I was working that day, so I was it was a bit of a d bit of a difficult one for me because I was working in a marked police car with two other police, but we weren't solely a response vehicle. It's it's a bit of a strange one. We were in a car that was partly funded by the Mornington Peninsula Shire. And it does happen from time to time. So what that means is that we were tasked to do police work, so triple O calls, the rest of it, and also do issues that related to the Mornington Peninsula. If they're having graffiti issues or public order issues or something like that, that was our task as well. So we got the job. So initially we came up on the air. You've got to remember Innigrath and D-24, they can they've got GPS, so they know where you are. So we were in Sereno, so we're running around the corner from this accident. It came across as a child being hit by a car. So we went, yep, we're the only unit down here, we'll go. We started heading towards it. Now, I don't know if down here this the morning convincing summer, it's bedlam, it's packed. So we're having a bit of trouble going down the main street of Sereno trying to head to it. So within two or three minutes when we're trying to make our way through this traffic, we the Rye unit, so another police unit came up and said, No, you can cancel the other unit, we'll go to it. So we thought, okay, we'll monitor, we'll just stop, we'll go back to doing what we're doing. I think we're heading down to the Porti Polo to do some other stuff down that way. And yeah, thinking at any stage they're going to call us, because if this starts turning out the way I think it's turning out, when you hear the air ambulance being used, I think no doubt we'll get called down there to give them a hand, especially with the summer traffic, and it just didn't happen.

SPEAKER_02 4:19

So if I could just add to that, Scott, you've mentioned there that you were in a vehicle that was partially funded by the Mornington Peninsula.

SPEAKER_01 4:26

The Rye police that were instructed to go, were they in a similar vehicle or were they in a Oh no they so they're just the usual the divisional van, they were just the normal response. We're a sort of a specialist sort of unit that was attached at that stage to Rosebud. No, they were the response they were the response unit for Rye, so they've come up and had headed to it. But we're listening to the now, you listen to the police radio, you know exactly what's going on. You can hear, especially when the air ambulance is up, as soon as the the air ambulance has called her job, it's it's pretty serious.

SPEAKER_02 4:55

And it's a bit like I s I assume triple O where those recordings are kept. So you've got all of that evidence there that that's the case, yes?

SPEAKER_01 5:02

And a lot of people sort of don't realise look at the we've initially so Ryan Muellerman was the young lad who got hit by the car. So he suffered signi it was life-threatening for them to use air ambulance, which cost about seven or eight thousand dollars a minute. They don't do it lightly. So they the ambulance, the the paramedics who arrived at the scene decided that he ain't gonna survive the trip to Melbourne by road, so he's got to go by air. He he was in a coma for three or four days afterwards. He's lost I think he lost his blood volume over seven times. He lost part of his spleen. He's we've just found out recently that he's also got an acquired brain injury from the accident, so it was a massive hit on him. Yeah, like he's still suffering to this day.

SPEAKER_02 5:42

Now that might have been presented on the podcast, but I can't recall reading that sort of detail in the media injuries that you're speaking of. That's incredibly sad and also quite concerning given the information at hand that we don't have.

SPEAKER_01 5:56

Yeah, look at there's a lot there's a lot of information out there. Initially, where we managed to get a lot of the internal police records, and you've got to remember, as an investigator, we're we're looking at the facts here. We're not surmising or guessing that's not our job to do that. We're looking at what we can read and prove. So part of the initial claim was that Ryan wasn't paid out what he was entitled to by Slater and Gordon early in the early days, that was before my involvement in the matter. And part of that, with Slater and Gordon being involved, the uh the lawyers for Ryan subpoenaed a ton of documents from the Victoria Police, the ambulance from the and from the state government. And that's where we just started off sifting through that, and that's how we've got to the point where we're at today.

SPEAKER_00 6:37

Yeah, uh Scott, I believe uh that you've got a bit of an idea of uh the timing and how far away you were from the collision and how long it took the other unit to get there.

unknown 6:48

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 6:48

Yep, we would have look, we would have beaten them by two two or three minutes easily. They've come from the right police station, so I don't look again, I'm not too sure if you know where that is in relation to the accident. The accident happened between in Black Arry between Rye and Sorrento. We were in Sorrento, the main street, and coming to the end of Ocean Beach Road, all we had to do was turn left under Melbourne Road and head down there. We could have been there within a couple of minutes max. About ten minutes just to leave the police station. So when they've taken the job and come up on the air, they're then taken a further ten minutes to muck around before they actually got in the car and headed down there. So we would have beaten them there easily.

SPEAKER_00 7:20

But what I'm suggesting is that you weren't you weren't turned around due to timing.

SPEAKER_01 7:26

No, it's got nothing to do with no. We were definitely closer.

SPEAKER_00 7:29

When did you leave the force?

SPEAKER_01 7:31

I left in so I I was ill health retired in 2018. I had some issues with my back. Yeah, I left in 2008. What's that now? Jesus, eight years ago, it's gone it's gone quick.

SPEAKER_00 7:42

And you became a PI when?

SPEAKER_01 7:45

I became so when I left I was I joined when I was obviously relatively young. I did twenty years in in Victoria Police and I didn't have much of a skill set apart from what I've learnt in policing, so part of that is I thought how am I going to fill some time in? So I think in two thousand and just when so we're talking about around COVID, I decided the only sort of skills I've got really is investigative sort of work. So I will did my PI license, did the course and got my PI license, and here I am.

SPEAKER_02 8:15

Good for you, that's fantastic. Given that I believe there's thirty-five procedural errors on the day and also the weeks thereafter. My God, I don't think we'll fit all forty in today, but we'll try and get some in, uh of course. Now the big one for me, more than anything else, is that witness statements weren't taken. That's not usual protocol, is it?

SPEAKER_01 8:38

No, it's not. What and I spoke about this in the podcast is that attend the two attending police at this, you've got to treat this as though Ryan so that the the poor kid on the bike is going to die. And they don't know. Like he once the microparamedics take him away and they load him in the air ambulance, he could die on road to the hospital and police at the scene would not know. They won't know his condition till hours later. So you have to treat it like it's a fatal collision. And that's you've got to start ticking all the boxes that you do when you go to a w when you a potentially fatal police collision. And they didn't do any of them. I can mention some, but it's not like getting state like obviously getting statements, taking photographs of the scene is or sketching the scene is the the most basic policing investigation you do when you go to these accidents. There's just so many things you gotta take. They didn't even take a photo of the bike. They in fact the bike just got left at the scene, and one of the witnesses took the bike away. Obviously didn't take photos of the Andrews vehicle at the scene. They took two f two crappy sort of photos that were later on when the Andrews car was parked in their Airbnb down the road, but yeah, it didn't get any names of people. There's witnesses there. We've got ten years later we've tracked down witnesses. They couldn't do it while within the three or four days of this investigation lasted.

SPEAKER_02 9:50

Scott, you've been saying they throughout all of that. Who's they?

SPEAKER_01 9:55

So the two oh the two police members who attended were Shana Sage and Daniel Ward. I think that's I think they're both still serving police. We haven't spoken to them, but so the they're the initial police who turned up on the scene. So the initial Victorian police officers, yeah, just didn't do a number of things. Now look, that that could be a combination of things, but when you start pushing up towards forty sort of errors, it's pretty bad as you can imagine. The public wouldn't be that impressed with that level of investigation.

SPEAKER_02 10:17

No, indeed. And just one last question regarding the witness statements. When police do take witness statements, do they have to be signed by the witness and the police officer taking the statement?

SPEAKER_01 10:29

Yeah, look, they do. Look, that that's how we can legally use them in court. So it's what you try to do is the closer to the incident you're taking a statement from, the better. Obviously, people's memory gets a bit foggy as time progresses. But so taking statements then and there is the best thing to do, or as soon as you possibly can afterwards. But again, none we don't we have managed to be able to track some down, but obviously they struggled at the time.

SPEAKER_00 10:52

So one of the uh one of the breaches was that they were the Andrews were allowed to leave the scene of what is was a serious collision. And my question to you I said allowed to, but uh just confirm it for me. I'm assuming the police allowed them to leave. They didn't leave before the police arrived, did they?

SPEAKER_01 11:12

No look so what we look we've what we've suggested throughout the podcast is that Andrews left the accident relatively quickly afterwards, and we've I think it's pretty well been pretty well established. It took six and a half minutes for them to ring Triple O. There was other two other people who rang Triple O prior to them even calling Triple O, so who heard the noise and had walked hundred metres down the street. So it it's there was a fair time period before the Andrews had done it. But Andrews obviously returned because it's throughout the documentation we've got that he then came back and was allowed by the police at the scene to hop into the car and drive that car away. Now that car, again, they had no idea whether Ryan was going to live and die. That car should be staying as it is and shouldn't be touched. But they allowed him to drive a car, and I don't know if you've seen the photos, but the window sorry, the windscreen is totally smashed and concaved in where Ryan hit it and bounced off the A-pillar. It also he also his bike also smashed the front the front headlight, s up the front driver's side tire, took off the side mirror while he went up and over the car. So the car was not in a fit state to be apart from the evidentiary value of the car was immense, which was lost as soon as he touched it. The fact that he they've let him drive an unsafe car with a flat tire, no steering, down a road is mind-boggling.

SPEAKER_02 12:28

Just so that I'm clear, because uh two things I'm thinking about. One is I was absolutely blown away, as I'm sure many people were, with the reenactment of this uh accident. Funnily enough, I have to say all credit to the mainstream media for putting that out. It's exactly as you just put there as how the impact occurred. The other uh issue, as you said, going away with that motor vehicle that was damaged and driving off. Who took the photographs? Because photographs, as you've just described, have been released so that we could actually see that damage. So photographs were taken and then hidden. What's the situation there?

SPEAKER_01 13:07

So that's the so what's occurred is once that car was driven back to the Airbnb by Andrews, once A once Ryan was obviously airlifted, so the he was airlifted from the right footy ground, which is probably five or five or ten minutes away from where the accident was, the police have re-attended at the Andrews scene and they'd they'd taken that photo of the the two photos of Andrew's car that's been widely released were taken in the driveway of the Airbnb later on once the car had been moved. So that's where it came out. They weren't discovered. A lot of this stuff w what didn't come again, prior to my involvement, this a lot of this stuff didn't come out till two thousand and shr I think the wheels of this started about two thousand and eighteen. All this stuff was well and truly dead and buried. It it took some people some really good digging to to get some of this stuff out. But yeah, look, it's the police investigation and you'll and you'll hear police and you'll hear the Herald signal or whoever the papers are saying that's been fully investigated. The police investigation, and I know this 'cause I've got it and I've read it, it consists of those two photos and a statement from Daniel Andrews and a statement from Catherine Andrews. That is the entirety of the police investigation into a near fatal accident with a child.

SPEAKER_02 14:17

So let's go to the driver of the vehicle, and uh there's talk about whether or not it it's our former Premier Daniel Andrews or his wife. In these sorts of cases, is it uh fair to say that there are incidents where uh a husband any husband would say, Look, can you cover for me? And the wife feels obliged. How accurate do we know this information regarding who the driver was?

SPEAKER_01 14:47

We don't look we don't know for sure because as soon as Andrews drove that car away, we lost it. It's just that simple. We got our guesses and our allegations, of course. But the big thing about that, like I think Daniel Andrews is about six two, six three, and his wife's tiny, she's about five six. There is a massive height difference. So it would have been easy for the police who were there to look at how the seats adjusted, how the mirrors are adjusted, how the rear view mirror is adjusted, and you would tell straight away who was driving the car. You could even ask the kids, his kids, but they all he took them from the scene relatively quickly and disappeared back to the Airbnb. It wouldn't have been hard to to ascertain who was the driver at that stage. Saying that, even in Ryan's statement he made to court, he basically says that for a number of minutes, Catherine and Daniel Andrews argued basically over the top of him. Didn't know really what they were saying, but they were arguing with each other whilst they were standing basically over the top of him.

SPEAKER_02 15:43

So no care or concern about the injured, clearly from what you've described.

SPEAKER_01 15:47

Well the first the human reaction is if you've been involved with a child, with anyone really, then the first thing you do is dial triple O. The first thing the Andrews did is grab Ryan's phone and ring his sister.

SPEAKER_02 16:00

Whose sister?

SPEAKER_01 16:02

Ryan's sister, so Samantha Muellman. So you'll hear it you'll hear it in the the episode of the podcast that drive drops today, I think, when they talked to Samantha Muelman. So the first phone call that was made is that Catherine Andrews used Ryan's phone and rang Ryan's sister from his phone and to come and collect him. That's horrific when you think about it, but that was the first call that was made. It wasn't obviously other people have called the emergency services, two other people who heard it and then came out and saw Ryan spread eagle on the road. Yeah, they've come out and done that. But the first call is to ring someone's sister when you've got serious internal bleeding is and and was bleeding through his shirt, you could see it.

SPEAKER_02 16:39

The step prior to that, what would have been the case, or you can't say for sure of course, but uh who was to know that Ryan had a sister and who was to know what her name was and who was to know that her phone number was in the phone to start with?

SPEAKER_01 16:52

I think that's I think what's happened is Catherine Andrews has possibly asked Ryan, who was he's in agony on the ground, is there's someone I can ring and mate like I think he might have alluded to the fact his sister in his throes of pain on the ground. And that's what they've done. So they've used his phone and doled his sister to come down to the scene. Yeah, it's just my it's mind blowing the way they behave. That six and a half minute window of from hitting a kid on a bike to what's a calling and we're talking about microparamedics turned up 'cause they knew it was life threatening, so a six and a half minute wait is life and death stuff, really.

SPEAKER_00 17:23

Something that struck me the other day was that if the police had have done their job, it would have been fairly easy to ascertain who was driving because the the fact that the they left the scene of the serious collision is an indictable offence, and it's an indictable offence for the driver alone. Let's say if Catherine Andrews was being pushed to claim that she was the driver, but she realized that she could do some serious jail time, maybe the story wouldn't be quite the same.

SPEAKER_01 17:54

No, look, no yeah, again, and and all that stuff, these forty sort of procedural errors we have we know we had by the attending police at the scene, like all that stuff, if they'd done their job properly at the start, we we would have had some direct evidence pointing to criminal offences or traffic offences from what's over. But as I said, because all that stuff, there's no photos, no scene measurements, nothing like that, that's all gone. We lost all that. And look, obviously traffic charges have a statute of limitations anyway, but saying that, I mean, we're looking now at through the documentation we got, we're looking at criminal charges, but a lot more serious than traffic charges.

SPEAKER_02 18:29

What are is the statute of limitations for traffic charges?

SPEAKER_01 18:33

Most of it's twelve months. There's some that are indictable that are that last a bit longer, but we're looking well, we've got to look at the evidence. So we're looking at sworn statements by Andrews and some of his stand-up media he did to both radio stations and TV, I think it was in 2017 where again he paints his version of events, but we're we're refuting his refer version of events. We're we're looking at criminal charges of perjury and attempting to be first of course to justice. But I'll just give you your listeners a little bit. Catherine Andrews and Daniel Andrews made a statement to police. It was done via email. So what looking at the documentation, the Catherine Andrews' statement, so this is the person who's saying who's driving the car, she's made a statement to police. That was sent via email, and then during the subpoena process through the Slater and Gordon, we got all the government insurance documents. Part of that was that Catherine Andrews had because she because the car was damaged, obviously, she had to fill out an insurance claim. And in that part of that insurance claim, she wrote a narrative of what she said happened. That narrative is word for word, and I mean it is 99.9%, exactly the same as her written statement she gave to police. So police, she's emailed that to police, they've just cut and pasted that and dropped it into a blank pro forma witness statement and then sent it off for her to sign. What again, what does that say? It says that Victoria Police didn't ask one question of Catherine Andrews at all. Didn't ask how long what's her driving, what's her obviously what's her driving record, where was she coming from? Was she on any medication? Has she driven this car? All these standard questions you ask in these statements for serious collisions like this, not one question was asked. And again, this is Victoria Police saying they did a thorough investigation, but it's not thorough, so don't ask one question, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_00 20:12

Scott, can you tell the listeners this goes to lack of empathy for me, tell the listeners what one of the early phone calls, one of the very quick phone calls that Sir Daniel Andrews made to, let's say, cover up what happened?

SPEAKER_01 20:27

There was a worry of phone calls made, Peters. Obviously, part of that subpoena process, we got the we got the phone records of the Andrews, the chief of staff and a few others, and it was massive. So basically, Chris O'Reilly was his chief of staff, sorry, co Brett Curran was his chief of staff. Chris O'Reilly obviously worked for Andrews, he was another government employee there. They had already organized to have the windscreen repaired through windscreen Zo Brian before Ryan even left, was still lying on the road. Obviously that stabilised him for a period of time. So phone calls were being made to already have the car repaired before Ryan was even in the air ambulance on the way to the Royal Children's Hospital. So again, staggering lack of empathy on lots of people, but there was a mad rush to get the car, the car repaired, and how do we know that? We've got the phone record, so we've checked it. But yeah, there were lots of lots of calls made, Peter, lots.

SPEAKER_02 21:20

So we've got the former premier, his wife, you've got the two police officers on the scene, then you've got the former premier's members of staff involved. Have they all been questioned by police subsequently to this?

SPEAKER_01 21:36

No. So that's the thing, Cheryl, and what we're trying to do now is get police to actually reopen the investigation. It's not hard, it wouldn't be time consuming or costly for them. It'd be quite simple. We've offered all to let them look at all the documents we have got and they've got them as well. But no one was ever spoken to. And me uh we're talking about what happened is obviously and and your listeners might not know, but Catherine Andrews wasn't PBT'd, right? So she wasn't Or like mandatory breath tests that everyone gets as as part of an accident. In term the professional standards looked at that just that aspect of it. Now IBAC have come out and said that they conducted an investigation into it and said that you know there's nothing to see here. Well, no one was our witnesses went the only thing IBAC looked at was the no PBT issue. They didn't look at the forty-odd procedural failures and breaches of Victoria Police policy that we've identified. None of that ever got looked at. So Victoria Police only their professional standards only ever looked at the no PBT. IBAC only ever looked at the no no PBT, and no one else has been spoken to. Not me, not the witnesses we've identified who came out that were Johnny on the spot. No one. So again, it's it's a bit frustrating when you hear IBAC and Victoria Police come out and say the matter's been fully investigated, but hasn't, and I know that for a hundred percent fact.

SPEAKER_02 22:49

You're being very kind saying it's a bit frustrating. I think there's other terms that could be used there. We're speaking with Scott Handley, who is a private investigator, but back in 2013 was a senior constable in Sorrento involved initially with the bike boy incident that we know, as we said, involves former Premier Daniel Andrews and his wife Catherine. And if any of our listeners would like to ask Scott a question or make a comment, you can text us through 0457-889-889. I'll give that again. 0457-889-889. Now, Scott, just on that as well, you say it's a little bit frustrating. Surely there is a legal sorry, not legal, lawful obligation such as so in the medical fraternity it is first do no harm, there would be some sort of lawful obligation for police officers to actually arrest someone that they know is uh allegedly in this case not telling the truth.

SPEAKER_01 23:58

Well, that's right. We it's uh this whole thing is trying to force Victoria Police to to reopen it and look at the evidence, which they continually put their head in their sand and don't and obviously don't want to do. And same with IBAC. Yeah, look it is it's it yeah, look, I've used the word frustrating, but yeah, look looking at the documents that I look at every day, I'm just I I shake my head and say, Why wouldn't they come back and look at this? They're just hoping, I think, that the passage of time is people will forget about it and just let it go. Poor old Ryan is not is the re and the reason we're doing this is not for any other reason apart from doing it for the family. He's his father Peter's been through hell, he's a lovely man, been basically catfished by the government this the past twelve, thirteen years. But yeah, Ryan has said again, struggling still with this to this day. W why you wouldn't want to just look that they're just a family that it's been crying out for help and the government and Victoria Police have just ignored it and just they really hope it just goes away.

SPEAKER_02 24:53

It can't go away. And this podcast is obviously helping push the matter along. And putting this incident aside, we're dealing with dishonesty of people that have been elected and by extension their staff. What does it say about uh politics here in Victoria and the protectionism of public servants?

SPEAKER_01 25:17

I don't think that look, and I've I've tried being an investigator in this, I've tried to distance myself from my personal views on the matter, political views on the matter, but saying that, there's there appears to be a common thread through the Labour government, doesn't there? We've had so many issues of the Labour government being involved in these sort of corruption issues, whether it be it red shirts, be it the CM FEU, all these sort of things. It just seems to be one after the other. Hence why a part of this push we're doing is for the Liberal Party to come out and we want the a Royal Commission basically. So we want a Royal Commission that encompasses everything in relation to the government corruption and whether that includes the the CMFEU and all this sort of stuff. We want this black boy to be part of it. The only way we're really going to get to the truth of it is if we have the all-encompassing powers of a Royal Commission that compel these people to give evidence.

SPEAKER_02 26:10

Indeed. You mentioned the Labor Party, however, we're talking about the incident taking place on the 7th of January 2013, and in fact it was the Liberal Party that were in power at the time.

SPEAKER_01 26:21

Correct. So he was the opposition leader then, but from what we've discovered through the podcast has drawn a lot of people out of the woodwork, which has been great. But he was slated then and there that he was going to be the premier. He obviously wielded a lot of power through his factional groups in the Labor Party, and that's been pretty apparent from what we've heard and what we've seen. But yeah, look, the the only way we're gonna get we're gonna get to the core truth of this is through since Victoria Police don't want to do it, IBAC don't want to do it, the only way we're gonna do it is to force it through a Royal Commission, I think.

SPEAKER_00 26:50

Yes, Scott, there is a star witness, isn't there, but he won't be coming out and doing the right thing by the Victorian public by telling the truth. Now I'll I'm not gonna put you on the spot here. Can you say anything more about that the g the guy that actually saw the crash and uh where it's gone from there and where he is today?

SPEAKER_01 27:11

Look, there's I can't go into too much detail with it for a number of reasons you probably listeners will probably understand, but the podcast has drawn some very important people out who have given us information and and don't get me wrong, we've heard off the record of people who were involved with this and might have been a witness to this accident who were there at the scene. And this may this these witnesses may have used that for some political gain. That's what we think's happened. We've had another witness who's who's come out and signed on the drive line who was relatively high up in in a government position, who's basically said he heard the same thing within a week of the crash. So there's plenty to play out here. There is plenty to play out. So again, we'll just keep on pushing and pushing, and hopefully, whether it takes a change in government later this year or something else, but we will hopefully force the issue so all this gets revealed. The public deserve it.

SPEAKER_02 28:05

Indeed. In the cases like this, what about the fireies? Do they get involved and were they involved?

SPEAKER_01 28:14

I don't know if you know the Monty Pencil, a lot of it's CFA down here. I think Rosebade might be paid firefighters, but the rest of CFA. CFA wasn't called to this accident.

SPEAKER_02 28:22

Is that un is that unusual?

SPEAKER_01 28:23

Yeah, it is, because it's someone I police down here all my life, and every I reckon every actor I've ever been to, the CFA turn up, regardless if it's just there to direct traffic or if it's there to wash away petrol on the road, whatever, they never turned up at this accident, which is unusual.

SPEAKER_02 28:38

So, Scott, just before we wrap up, any last key points you'd like our listeners to know about? I know that this is all going to unfold with the podcast, but this has been an extraordinary conversation. So, based on the issue that I said that there were thirty-five procedural errors, you're saying now forty. Is there a key point that you'd like to make regarding those most recent finds?

SPEAKER_01 29:00

Look, I'll I'll just a couple of quick things. Like, if people want to know how this accident actually physically took place, they read Dr. Ray Shui's report. The Ray Shui was a assistant commissioner in Victoria Police. He had a doctorate in road safety, Australian of the year, senior Australian of the year, Vietnam veteran, highly regarded. The Andrews slandered him. He par unfortunately he passed away just after he did the report. But if they want to know the circumstances accidents, they read which is Ray's reports online, read Ray's report, and that tells you exactly how this accident took place.

SPEAKER_02 29:28

And I think just on that too, I've actually found some of the submissions for what's happening now with the notice or it's called the notice of filings at the Federal Circuit Court. And it seems that the Andrews party, husband and wife, say that his report is manifestly non-compliant with expert witness code of conduct and also the Evidence Act of 2008. So they're actually claiming that the report that Mr. Shui did is inadmissible.

SPEAKER_01 30:00

Yeah, they are that's that's part of that, yeah, the civil proceedings. But what I mean, and what I'll say to that is Ray Shwey, when he was the he was he had the portfolio of road policing when he was assistant commissioner, his policies he brought in at that stage drove down the road tail, so saved countless lives. His road policies and strategies have been adopted by countries around the world. To say something like that's a good way to get every ex-Victoria police member offside by saying that, because he is that highly regarded. And the fact that he's passed away, it's a it's an easy shot. But his credibility, as far as I'm concerned, and most police are concerned, cannot be questioned. So I think it says more about the people saying them statements than it does about Ray.

SPEAKER_02 30:36

I can't thank you enough, Scott, for coming onto the show and for sharing what you have this morning with myself and our listeners. And certainly this is going to continue and I look forward to having you back as things unfold and as you've suggested that there'll be a a push for a Royal Commission. But I suspect that what many people would want to see is criminal charges laid and some saving of funds and not worrying about the Royal Commission. I don't know how that would happen, but certainly, as we say, that lawful obligation when a crime has been committed, it's I'm thinking citizens' arrests here too. I don't know whether that's come up. Do we need to wait for the police force? Pete's got one last question before we go.

SPEAKER_00 31:13

Yeah, just just in case there's people out there listening to this uh this programme that may have something to add. Is there a way they can contact you?

SPEAKER_01 31:23

If they can, Peter, they can look I think they can get on the bike boys' socials. If anyone wants to get in contact with me, I'm more than happy to speak to them. So they can shoot a message through to on I think Facebook, social media, Instagram, whatever they got there. I think there's on a website. They can send that through, Jackson will get the message and they can pass it on to me. So I'm happy to speak to anyone who anyone's got questions, more than happy to more than happy to talk to them. What I will say quickly is though, this thing's evolving really quickly. Even more information came last night. So all I can say to people out there is watch this space because it's about to explode.

SPEAKER_02 31:53

Just before you do go, I wish we had another hour with you. I've just got a question that's come in. Who in the police force is blocking a proper investigation into Bite Boy?

SPEAKER_01 32:04

The person who's got the power to do this is Mike Bush, the Chief Commissioner. So we need him to come to the party. He's going to get a copy of what we got very soon. We've got the brief of evidence ready to go. I've done it. It's 440 pages long, so we're about to give that to him, and he's got the power to say yes. So we'll see, we'll see what he says. If he says no, we know which way he leans politically, I would say. But he's the only one who's got the power to open this.

SPEAKER_02 32:28

Thanks very much, Scott. Fantastic to have you and look forward to having you back in coming weeks.

SPEAKER_00 32:32

Thanks, Scott.

SPEAKER_02 32:33

That was Scott Hanley, the bike boy incident in January 2013 that involved former Premier Dan Andrews and his wife Catherine.