Redefining Professionalism: How Gen Z Is Forcing Corporate America To Be For Real

People love to call Gen Z lazy, entitled, and difficult to manage.

But what if they're simply refusing to participate in systems that older generations accepted without question?

In this season finale of No Filter | No Apologies™, Katy and Rebecca tackle one of the most polarizing workplace topics today: Gen Z.

From pay transparency and job hopping to work-life boundaries, mental health, and corporate loyalty, they explore why younger workers are disrupting traditional workplace norms and why that disruption may be exactly what organizations need.

In this episode, they discuss:

• Why Gen Z is challenging long-standing workplace expectations
• The rise of pay transparency and career mobility
• Mental health, burnout, and the rejection of hustle culture
• The difference between healthy boundaries and avoiding accountability
• Leadership mistakes when managing younger generations
• Where Gen Z may still need to develop resilience, initiative, and problem-solving skills
• The workplace lessons every generation can learn from one another

Plus, Katy and Rebecca put their Gen Z knowledge to the test by breaking down some of today's most popular slang and workplace phrases.

Whether you're a leader, manager, parent, or professional trying to understand the future of work, this conversation offers an honest look at the changing expectations shaping today's workforce.

Season One may be ending, but the conversation is just getting started.

Women don't get in trouble for being wrong. We get in trouble for being honest. So let's be honest.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to the No Filter, No Apologies podcast with Rebecca Sachs and Katie Shapiro.

SPEAKER_02 0:06

People love to call Gen Z lazy and entitled, but honestly, some of them have it completely figured out. Me as a Gen Xer and Katie, you being a millennial or the Lennial, we were conditioned and trained to live the traditional American dream. The house with a white picket fence, marriage, 2.4 kids, and a dog. We nearly killed ourselves trying to achieve that. Now enter Gen Z and they are simply not having it. They are holding up a mirror to corporate America and pushing back on companies, holding them accountable for things like annual mass layoffs while choosing to take breaks when they actually need them in life. They are putting their health and wellness before anyone else as it should be. So let's get into it.

SPEAKER_01 0:53

I think Gen Z is completely disrupting the talent pipeline. I think it's by 2030 they're expected to be at least 30% of the entire global workforce. And so the question isn't, are they entitled? I think the question is why older generations have normalized an environment where proving your worth requires near physical destruction and accepting less than what you're worth. And so is Gen Z actually lazy, or are they just wide-eyed to this system that's broken that we've all normalized, and they're saying, I'm not gonna participate in this in this way?

SPEAKER_02 1:35

Yeah. It's so funny because it makes me think of the Friends episode. Did you ever watch Friends?

SPEAKER_01 1:40

Yeah. Spend some time.

SPEAKER_02 1:42

There's an episode where somebody has a dream and everybody's almost the opposite of what they were. And so Phoebe has a heart attack because she works so hard and she's on the phone and she's smoking a cigarette, sitting in the hospital bed, like to take this call, I don't have to do this work. And that's kind of how we were conditioned and raised, right? To just be on all the time, go, go, go. And in reality, it really, okay, if you're having a heart attack, go take care of yourself at the hospital. Do not sit here and trying to work from the hospital bed and nothing's on fire. You're the one on fire. Go take care of yourself, right? Yeah. So it definitely reminds me of that episode a lot. And it's just it's comical when you think about it because that's not how it should be. You should be able to have the balance between work, life, and home life. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 2:31

And I know I'm I'm definitely an older millennial, but I remember when we were entering the workforce and it was like, these millennials come in with one ear pod in their ear and their coffee and they're and they're they're so casual and they don't want to dress up. And I remember feeling at that time, like, well, what does it matter? I'm the highest performer you have on this team. Why do you care that I have an ear pod in my ear? What's the difference? It's a stupid rule. I'm all for rules unless they're stupid, and then I don't want to follow them. And so I feel like I'm also raising two Gen Z kids. And of them have great work ethics. They take personal accountability and responsibility. I mean, we've raised them to be that way, but they will also flat out question things that make me even say, yeah, I think that was like an old construct. I don't know why we do that. Or they'll say, I'm not, you know, I've worked from home for a long time. And my son has repeatedly said to me, I don't want to do what you do. I don't want to be at my desk at nine o'clock at night or taking calls and dinner, and I don't want to do that. And being stressed out all the time, or what they see, they've seen us as parents and as adults, what the workforce is doing without being compensated. I mean, right now, people are having to work two and three jobs just to survive. This isn't even to live big lives. This is to just be able to pay their bills and afford groceries. Gen Z has seen all of that, they've grown up in it, and so they go, Yeah, no, I see all of it. And so they're, I think they're highly disruptive and it makes people uncomfortable. And it makes people point at their generation now and say, they're entitled and they're lazy and they need to earn their stripes. And it's, yeah, they need to earn their stripes like any other generation. But also, I think they're holding a mirror up and going, no, I'm not falling for it. And so bye.

SPEAKER_02 4:26

Yep, and I agree. I think it's a good disruption, and that's typically where the change comes from, right? Um, being uncomfortable and having to endure and deal with those things will create change, shake up the norms, if you will. Yeah, exactly. I think one of the things that I've seen in work environments, specifically as it relates to Gen Z, is that a lot of the older generations don't understand and don't respect the fact that they want to openly have conversations about pay transparency. They will openly have conversations about job hopping, right? Because if this isn't working for me today, I'm gonna say it's not serving me because I also think that's a Gen Z. Um saying about it's not serving them. So then they move on to the other opportunity without any hesitation, without shame, where we and anybody prior to us would typically be all kinds of anxious and feel guilty for moving from one role to the another if it's not serving us, right? And so that's with them prioritizing mental health over corporate loyalty too, it it takes them in a different direction where uh, as mentioned, the health and well-being is priority to them, not necessarily work. And so it should be that way. It's not that way. I think the older generations tend to look down on them because they have these values that they're bringing in to the workforce now. And it is a good disruption to the workforce because I think it's gonna naturally change and help uh people change their perceptions to be a little bit better. I don't know, it's gonna change quickly, but it's still gonna be a process.

SPEAKER_01 6:18

Well, I think what happened is our parents' generation could work for companies, the same company for 40 years. That company would take care of them, they would do the retirement party, they would get a good retirement when they left or pension or anything like that. Yeah, we were then raised to believe that that was possible for us, especially as millennials. So go get your college degree, work hard, do the extra work, climb that ladder, push, push, push, push, push, and the company's gonna take care of you. And what happened is companies said, yeah, keep pushing, keep pushing, keep working hard, and we're gonna do less and less and less to take care of you. We're gonna make you work harder, we're gonna pay you less, we're gonna do layoffs as a strategy every year. We're and so millennials were like, hey, I'm I'm mid-run on this dream that you sold me and it's not working out. And then millennials and Gen X, I don't want to ignore Gen X, are raising Gen Z kids who see their parents doing that. Like we saw our parents get that reward. Gen Z saw their parents not get that reward. So now Gen Z comes in and says, Oh, you want me to work on the weekend? Okay, am I getting time and a half for that? And then I think corporate leaders go, they're so entitled. No, you're asking them to do free labor and they see it and they're holding a mirror up, going, Hey, you're asking me to work for free. I'm happy to do this extra project, happy to give you the extra time, but you're gonna compensate me for it. Something I coach in my clients now is your career is a transaction between you and a company. You agree to provide them with a certain level of work and skill set, and they agree to compensate you for your time and your work. So all those days about we're a family and we care for each other, that's great. But at the end of the day, if you need to cut me to save on your PL, you're going to. And if I need to leave you because I can make more money somewhere else, I'm going to. It's a transaction. And I think Gen Z is just very blunt about it. And to your point, they have those conversations and they call it out. And it's the mirror effect.

unknown 8:22

Right.

SPEAKER_02 8:22

Right. And it's just their boundaries are being viewed as entitlement, which it shouldn't be, because everybody should have boundaries. And how many times have we talked about it on here? Boundaries are so critical in any type of relationship and especially in work. And so I think just some advice for leaders in today's workforce is stop blaming the new workforce for demanding that flexibility, right? Work with them and have conversations because I think when you talk about things, it makes it a lot easier too to find a common ground and move towards a solution. And then fix the trading pipeline, right? Any bias, bias that comes from the older managers and they're being baked into how Gen Z is being onboarded and creating this unnecessary friction. I've seen it time and time again, where they want to have conversations and advocate for themselves. And the leaders who are of an older generation are like, no, they don't deserve it. They didn't earn it yet. Well, no, but that's what the role pays. So they should be compensated the same as the other people. They're bringing value to the role. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:39

I also think, if I may, for leaders, I always talk about you and I have talked about this too. You can't just lead in one distinct style when you're responsible for people leadership. Your people are motivated by different things, they're motivated in different ways, and you have a common goal. And you need to align that motivation around the common goal and inspire and lead and support your team accordingly so that they can get to that common goal. Gen Z is just another piece of your puzzle. They are a new group with new motivations, and it's your job as a leader to understand what those motivations are and motivate, inspire, and lead them toward the common goal and remove your bias from it as oh, this younger generation, they're so entitled. Now, in fairness, there is a skill gap that that is presented frequently with Gen Z that I think has to be addressed and Gen Z has to own. And it's taking initiative, proactive problem solving, creating operational efficiencies. I think there's something that's come up, especially in hands-on roles. I've gotten this feedback from a lot of leaders you know, I'll give them an assignment and they'll say, I'll come back two hours later and say, Hey, Rebecca, where are you on that assignment? Any questions? Oh, I didn't even get to begin because I didn't have access to the file and I couldn't open it. And it's like, okay, did you ask anybody? Did you go find? Did you call IT? Did you come get me? There was no initiative or problem solving there. And so I think that Gen Z can look in the mirror and say, where are my opportunities to take initiative where it makes sense? Where are my abilities to solve a problem without having to Google it, chat GPT, it, work with my boss? Just go take that step, take the initiative and start working toward the business goals.

SPEAKER_02 11:32

Yeah, I think there's a lack of understanding how to do that. I think part of it is they grew up with technology where our generations we had to adapt, right? We grew up with technology, but in a different capacity. Where they have Google, they've always been able to just Google things and ask the question. Or go to YouTube and learn how to do something as opposed to taking the initiative to figure it out. And yeah, you can watch a YouTube video, but at the same time, are you really learning, or are you just following steps on a video? But with that critical thinking and taking initiative, you then learn how to get the grit, right? That that's what comes in with that professional experience and having to have those challenging moments. I also think because we live in a world of instant gratification, we're also dealing with uh Gen Z wanting instant gratification. They get into a role and they're like, How do I not promote it in two weeks? And well, that's not you don't get promoted in two weeks, right? You come in, you show results, and then you continuously work your way out. Now I understand if there is a timeline of the six months to a year, but those things are also set, those expectations are also set prior to coming into your role. So you're you know on the front end how long it typically takes to be promoted. And so those are opportunities all around. But I do think the ability to kind of get knocked down and get back up again is something that lacks within this generation. Not everybody, but it is one of the reasons I think that a lot of people tend to have all these bias because they'll have 10 people who are great, and then they have one that ruins the whole thought process on how to manage and work with Gen Z. Because it isn't that how it always is, it just takes one person.

SPEAKER_01 13:22

Well, I've seen that across not just generational things. I had a hiring manager uh tell me one time he was really hesitant to hire veterans because he had one veteran who worked with him who had a PTSD episode, and so from there on out, he was nervous to hire any veteran. And I was like, you cannot, do you know how many veterans are in the United States? You cannot apply this bias, that one experience, that one person. I'm giving you an extreme example, but I do agree that you have one rough experience with one person, and all of a sudden it becomes your stereotype for that entire group. And that's just leadership 101. You've got to remove your bias from the process. But I do think, and I'm just gonna give a really a real example. It's no secret that I'm horrible at math. It is no secret how bad I am in math. However, leading departments and being responsible for millions of dollars, there was an expectation on me that I would be able to calculate percentages quickly. I'll just use that as an example. So I have three different apps on my phone that help me calculate percentages because it's a responsibility of my job. I had to figure out a way to compensate for my own disability with math to be able to go, this is what I do. And then the other thing is hiring people around me who are good at numbers and not being too proud to say, I'm having, you know, you were my number two at one point, having this person run this, or I'm having this person check it because I don't process numbers the same way. And that you that is taking initiative, that is taking ownership, that is problem solving in a non-traditional way, and that's okay. So I think Gen Z can take a moment to say, all right, when the internet goes down, or ChatGPT or Claude or all of these other options, they can't give me the answers that I need. What do I do? How do I still work the problem and go there? And I think that also develops the grit that you need in business. It builds that muscle of conflict resolution and communication stamina and workplace resilience. You can't just ghost a difficult corporate conversation or a tense ask from your boss when things get tough. You have to learn to navigate that friction. Yeah. And that's part of that, the other way that you get that gratification that you're looking for in your career. Because you can produce, produce, produce over here. But if you don't possess those intangible skill sets too of problem solving and taking initiative and building the grit and resolving conflict, all these other things, then you won't grow within any company.

unknown 16:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:01

And I think it goes back to getting knocked down and being able to stand yourself back up and move forward is really the critical piece too, right? Because, and we've discussed this previously, you know, they put kids in sports and everybody gets participation awards. But if you don't have the experience of winning and losing, you don't know how to navigate that as you continue to grow your career in a professional environment. So, what happens when there's three people and you don't get the promotion? How do you respond? How do you respond to that? It's gonna be a true showing of who you are and how you represent yourself in this professional setting. And if you can't keep your composure, then you're gonna be out quicker than you get an opportunity to be promoted again. So I think it's pretty interesting.

SPEAKER_01 16:48

That level of rejection is difficult for anyone. Rejection was promotion, rejection for getting the job. And I think there's an opportunity of going, is this rejection that was actually good? Rejection is redirection, right? That opportunity wasn't meant for you, that promotion wasn't meant for you because something bigger is meant for you over here. Or is this rejection an opportunity for you to look at yourself and say, what can I do differently? Let me go talk to the person who was making that decision and say, hey, help me understand. I'm really interested in being promoted within this company. I know I went out for this role and didn't get it. Can you tell me what opportunities I have so that I can work on those? So the next time a promotion comes up, I'm actually at the top of that list. And that kind of mature professional dialogue will take you so much further within a company and it'll help you build relationships and build your own muscle. So I'm gonna ask you some questions and you tell me if you know what they mean.

SPEAKER_02 17:51

Okay, so we'll need like Gen Z. Yes, Gen Z sayings.

SPEAKER_01 17:57

Gen Z sayings. Okay, I'll do my best. Okay, because don't call me bruh. I've already established that with my kids. Do not call me bro or bruh. I am mom or Katie.

SPEAKER_02 18:12

I call Christian bro all the time.

SPEAKER_01 18:14

Okay, so no cap or no lies, no lies told, right?

SPEAKER_02 18:21

Yeah, and the other one is be so for real right now.

SPEAKER_01 18:26

Are you kidding me?

SPEAKER_02 18:27

Is that yeah, I mean, pure authenticity. I thought no cap was no lies or truth. Right?

SPEAKER_01 18:36

Yeah, I thought no cap was I'm not lying. Or I feel super old right now. I don't appreciate this.

SPEAKER_02 18:45

So Gen Z had zero tolerance for fake corporate energy and performative professionalism. No cap.

SPEAKER_01 18:52

No cap. You will not catch me saying that in public. I like this one. Delulu.

SPEAKER_00 19:01

I know what delulu means. That's a cute version for delusional, and I know a lot of people who are delusional.

SPEAKER_02 19:11

It's funny because it's a delusional but aspirational. I don't know if that aligns all the time because I know plenty of people who are delulu and I don't think they're aspirational.

SPEAKER_01 19:21

Look, I'm gonna say something and it might ruffle some feathers, but I think that women need to be way more Dululu than they are about their careers right now, and stop waiting until you're 100% to ask for the promotion and just actually I should say use the delusion of a mediocre man and take the leap to get your promotion.

SPEAKER_02 19:43

Yeah, a little is necessary for the career growth. Yes. And we've talked about this before. If the there's an opportunity to pursue a promotion and you have 60% of what's required, go for it. Don't wait for the hundred percent.

SPEAKER_01 20:00

Go for it.

SPEAKER_02 20:01

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 20:02

I feel like wait, just real quick, I don't want to sidetrack those, but what do you have to lose? Nothing. You have everything to gain and nothing to lose, so do it. And some of the people in these rooms making the decisions are the Lulu about how great they are. So let's be honest about that. And if you think you don't belong in those rooms, you're the Lulu. How many times can I say Delulu in a 30-second period?

SPEAKER_02 20:33

Okay, next one. It's giving.

SPEAKER_01 20:37

It's giving like you're you're acting this way or that way, right? It's it's giving jealous. Stop it.

SPEAKER_02 20:49

Or it's giving a toxic workplace. Yes. So reading the room or calling out the vibe of the room or environment you're going into.

SPEAKER_01 21:02

My daughter and I do say that a lot. We're like, the vibes are off here. What's going on?

SPEAKER_02 21:08

Oh, that's the worst. When you like step into a room and you can just feel the negative energy in it.

SPEAKER_01 21:14

Okay, no, that's that's my cue to exit. I can I can feel it when people approach me. I'm like, I already don't really not loving this person's energy.

SPEAKER_02 21:26

Okay. Locked in versus I'm not doing all that.

SPEAKER_01 21:31

Locked in means you're in it. You're working hard, you are focused, you're doing whatever you need to do to get to wherever you're trying to go. I'm not doing all that. I say that one. Is that a Gen Z term? They'll be like, no, I'm not doing all that. That is extra and it's it's unnecessary. You know, I don't like to waste time on stupid things. So I'll be like, that's ridiculous. I'm not doing all that.

SPEAKER_02 21:53

I have said that in multiple situations in work environments, especially when I've come into an environment and They're so antiquated with their process and systems and everything. And then they do things just because for the sake of doing them. And it's not the most efficient way. Like, no, I'm not doing all that.

SPEAKER_01 22:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:11

I'm gonna do it this way because it's smarter and it's gonna save me another 20 minutes of my life. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:18

Yeah, or being told, uh, I just cannot, I cannot butter other people's biscuits. I cannot. That was like a super old term. That is not a Gen Z term. I will not be doing that for you. I'm not gonna stroke your ego. I'm not gonna go out of my way to give you the worm. I'm your business partner. I'm gonna show up. I'm gonna deliver results for you. I'm gonna be professional. I'm gonna help you. But if you need me to coddle you or I don't know, any of that. I'm just not doing it. I'm not doing all that.

unknown 22:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:50

And then say locked in. Yeah, it just depends on what I'm working on. But yes, there are days that I am truly locked in, focusing on whatever I'm focusing on. And yeah, truly doing work as opposed to being performatively busy. Yeah. Because that's just a waste of everybody's time.

SPEAKER_01 23:12

I agree. But some people fall for that because it strokes their ego.

SPEAKER_02 23:18

Yes. Well, I think they like to be rewarded for just being there for the duration of the day or exceeding the duration of the day. I think my worked out day.

SPEAKER_01 23:29

I agree, but I also think their bosses, sometimes leaders like that. I think it strokes their ego to be in a position of power and have somebody respond to you at nine o'clock at night. It's this cyclical thing of, oh yeah, I'm it's a power play, and that strokes my ego. And then I compliment you for your performative availability, and that strokes your ego. And the whole thing is a waste of time, and I'm not doing all that.

SPEAKER_02 23:49

Soft life and protecting my peace.

SPEAKER_01 23:53

I know protecting my peace is like, I'm not gonna put myself in situations that drain my energy or my physical being and all of that. I'm not gonna go there. Soft life, I don't really know.

SPEAKER_02 24:06

Both of them really do mean kind of the same thing, right? Choosing well-being over destruction. And I think that's what we basically started the conversation with, right? That Gen Z is redefining success, and that ambition doesn't have to mean burning out. Yeah. And that's historically what we've all done, right? We've kind of followed suit in that way.

SPEAKER_01 24:30

Now we are trying to change it, but you know, I think that term gets abused sometimes. I'm not gonna lie. Okay, I might age myself here, but I think protecting your peace, I think, or protecting my peace. Sometimes I do think it is a, hey, I am not gonna sacrifice my psychological safety for this corporate title change or for what is blatantly a toxic environment, or you know what I mean? I'm not gonna put myself in that position. So sometimes I think protecting your peace is the right way to go, it's the right statement to make. Other times I feel like it's a way of skirting accountability and responsibility. I've seen a lot of people create situations and they'll be the ones who owe it to the group to sort of come back and correct it, or to a person to come back and apologize, and they'll go, Yeah, I'm not doing that. I'm protecting my peace. No, you're protecting your ego because you don't want to take accountability or apologize. So I think it depends on how you use it. And I would just caution people to ask themselves, are you really protecting your piece or are you avoiding something? Right. Are you scapegoating? Yeah. You know, I I am a people have to take accountability around me. You can mess up, you can mess up really. But if you come back and say, hey, I messed up and I just want to take accountability for that, and here's what I'm doing to fix, okay, great, we can move on. But when you skirt responsibility or you deflect by saying things like, I'm just protecting my peace, no, that doesn't work for me.

SPEAKER_00 26:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:06

So I think that that's a critical one, too.

SPEAKER_02 26:09

Yep. Yeah. So as we close out this episode, I wonder do we think that every generation exists to challenge the next generation or the generation before it?

SPEAKER_01 26:25

I don't know that they exist to trigger them. I think is what you're trying to say. Like, I don't know if they exist to do that. I think it naturally happens because we we're evolving as people. And I even caught myself the other day being like, when I was a kid, a box of lemon heads was 10 cents. And then I just wanted to die because I said that to my kids back in my day. And like, okay, we all have that experience, right? And then we all change and we evolve and we push boundaries and we push evolution in business and life and the world, everything. So yeah, I think we're all a little disruptive to the next generation, but I think I think millennials and Gen Z actually get along a lot better than maybe boomers and Gen X, Gen Z. Even though I think Gen Z gives us a hard time. We're like, okay, millennials with your skinny jeans and your side part, I will rock my side part. You know how many years it took me to train my hair to do a side part because I had a Marsha Brady middle part. So yeah, I'm gonna rock this side part until I'm 90 and I don't want to hear it. So I can't hear the middle part.

SPEAKER_02 27:30

I have a widow's peak that it won't work for me.

SPEAKER_01 27:33

Yeah. So I'm like, leave me alone over here. But I do think those types of things are funny, but I also think each generation annoys previous generations because they are disruptive, and then I think some generations come together and love it. And personally, I think that some of the things the Gen Z has normalized are, as I mentioned earlier, some of the boundaries that we needed permission to set years ago. We didn't catch it until later. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Especially those excitingly enough, Rebecca, this episode actually wraps up season one of No Filter, No Apologies. We want to thank you all for listening and encourage you to hit that subscribe button on YouTube, leave us a five star review on Apple or Spotify, and get ready because season two is going to be completely next level.

SPEAKER_02 28:25

Follow us on all your socials, NFNA Podcast.

SPEAKER_01 28:28

Until next time.