Financial Independence of Women - How to Build Lasting Personal Autonomy

America recently celebrated 250 years of independence. But for women, true financial independence is far more recent than most people realize.

Just over 50 years ago, women in the United States could legally be denied a credit card or business loan without a male co-signer. Today, women are building businesses, leading Fortune 500 companies, negotiating executive salaries, and creating generational wealth. The question is: are we prepared to maximize the opportunities previous generations fought to secure?

In this episode of No Filter | No Apologies™, Katy Shapiro and Rebecca Sacks explore why financial literacy is one of the most important forms of independence women can build and why understanding money is about far more than budgeting.

Together they discuss:

• The history of women's financial independence in America
• Why financial literacy remains a critical skill for women
• The investment confidence gap and long-term wealth building
• Entrepreneurship, salary negotiation, and increasing earning power
• How to build financial confidence at every stage of life
• Six practical strategies to strengthen your financial future
• Common money myths that may be holding you back
• Why your relationship with money influences your future more than your current income

Whether you're paying off debt, investing for the first time, building a business, negotiating your salary, or planning for retirement, this episode offers practical strategies to help you create greater financial confidence and long-term freedom.

Because financial independence isn't just about earning more.

It's about creating more choices.

Women don't get in trouble for being wrong. We get in trouble for being honest. So let's be honest.

 CONNECT WITH NO FILTER, NO APOLOGIES: 

Watch full videos on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@NOFILTERNOAPOLOGIESPODCAST

Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nfnapodcast/

Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/NFNAPodcast

Follow us on Tik Tok: https://www.tiktok.com/@nfna_podcast11

Follow Our Hosts on LinkedIn:

 - Katy: https://www.linkedin.com/in/katyshapiro/

- Rebecca: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rebecca-sacks-606a7951/

Enjoying our raw conversations? Please leave us a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to the No Filter, No Apologies Podcast with Rebecca Sachs and Katie Shapiro. America just celebrated 250 years of independence, and it's a perfect reminder of the single most foundational value our country was built on. The absolute freedom to architect your own path. But here is a historical fact most people completely overlook. Many of the basic financial rights we execute without thinking today are incredibly brand new for women. Just over 50 years ago, a brilliant, high-earning woman could be denied a simple credit card or a business loan unless she had a husband or male father or something like that to co-sign for her. Thankfully, the generations before us broke those barriers down. And today, women are leading Fortune 500 companies, launching massive enterprises, managing high-yield investment portfolios, and creating generational wealth on their own. And in our mother's lifetimes, that's what's baffling to me. That you know, at the time that our moms were just coming up, my mom had a master's degree. And I'm thinking, wow, while she was in college, she couldn't open a credit card on her own. Yeah. That's wild to me. And I think it's something that there's a twofold challenge for us as women. I think one, we take for granted that we have those opportunities today. Yeah. That that they it was just a very short time ago that we didn't, and how life-changing that would be for our independence and our autonomy as women. I think because it's so new, this is the second thing. I think because it is so new, women are still trying to figure it out, right? Financial literacy courses and things like that are just starting to be implemented in high schools, and women are getting access to financial education. And now, if our parents didn't even have access to it, and then we learned it sort of stumbling in, and now we're trying to raise a generation who has financial literacy, it's still taking some time. And I think we have to give ourselves some grace in the learning period, but also be very intentional about having financial independence and financial confidence.

SPEAKER_00 2:24

Yeah, absolutely. And they are starting to teach financial skills in high school, so yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 2:33

So I know my daughter, she's gonna be a senior this year, and it was, I think when she was a sophomore, they started making it mandatory. It was like a half a year course on financial literacy. Oh, that's investments, taxes, things like that, of course. And you know, we all joke like why were we square dancing in school and not learning? Basic life skills makes no sense.

SPEAKER_00 2:55

I'm not really sure why we were doing that, but I had lunch with um one of my girlfriends the other day, and we were talking about the financial literacy piece and just how wild it is and how unprepared. We're kind of we were raised in a generation that was we've been living paycheck to paycheck because things keep skyrocketing, and our generation doesn't have a lot of uh retirement funds saved. And what did she? I think she said that the average person between like 45 and 55 has $564 saved towards retirement. Like that's it. Wow, and and I said, you know, I had to in I didn't have to, but I chose to, with starting my own business, take some out of my 401k to to be able to have financial stability now. And um it's just yeah, it's scary. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:51

Yeah, it's very scary. And I also think people like to say money doesn't buy happiness.

SPEAKER_02 3:56

Right.

SPEAKER_01 3:57

And I'm like, I don't know that that's true because money can buy you freedom, and with freedom you can find happiness. Because imagine if you're not to your point stressed about living paycheck to paycheck, and you can travel and you can put your kids in good schools, and you can do those things, then yeah, you can you have the financial freedom to live the life that you want to live, and that can create happiness, and also you can give back in a way, you know. And I feel like that's the ultimate freedom, and it is I don't want people to be discouraged today and going, it's such a time of struggle right now, financially, for so many people. So maybe you can't get financially ahead, but you can educate yourself because we always talk about how the pendulum always swings back, it will swing back, and when it does, will you be able to confidently work toward financial freedom? Especially as a woman, you know, take those steps to educate yourself and to look at what are ways that you could behave differently with money in a way that will give you financial freedom and autonomy when you start to get even a little bit so that you already have that vision and plan in place, and when those things start to be able to come to fruition, you can start implementing right away.

SPEAKER_00 5:20

Yeah. Yeah, because I mean ultimately it gives you the ability to do things and be on your own and not have to rely on anyone. And I know, like for me, that's a huge thing. I don't want to have to rely on anyone for anything. Yeah, I'm my own independent woman, I can do my own things.

SPEAKER_01 5:35

Yeah, and you know, I wanted to point out something you said because you were talking about 401ks and savings. There's a statistic out that says high-earning women control a rapidly growing share of wealth in the U.S. Yet the research shows a persistent investment confidence gap where women hold significantly more cash in low yield savings accounts than men, and then miss out on the massive compounding returns over time. Wow. So, yeah, so we're we might even be bringing money in, but we don't know how to invest it yet. We're not sure how to take those steps. And so I think that economic equality is achieved when women shift from passive savings to active wealth accumulation and then that high-leverage investing when they can get there. Yeah. What are some actual milestones, Rebecca? Do you know for women?

SPEAKER_00 6:28

Actual milestones, um, the Equal Credit Opportunity Act of 1974, that women actually gained the legal, they legally gained independent access to credit lines.

SPEAKER_01 6:42

1974. It's five years before I was born.

SPEAKER_00 6:46

Oh my god. So that means mid-career Gen X and boomer women live through a time where they couldn't buy property or fund a business on their own merit. Sorry. That's wild. You know, it's really interesting because another radio show podcast I listened to, they were somebody wrote in and was like down with the patriarchy and was saying all these things, right? And it was very entertaining. And I understood where she was coming from because it the conversation was around a father who was paying his daughter's school because she was going to med school, and he was a surgeon. She was going to be a surgeon. And he was like, Am I doing the right thing? Because now she wants to be a therapist and not a surgeon. And so I said, Okay, well, if you're not going to medical school to be a doctor, I'm not paying for your school anymore. And so this woman was like, Well, that's him just controlling her, and but well, no, because the agreement was for one type of career that's going to be very lengthy and pricey, but now she's changing that direction. So I understand where the father is coming from. He could still help out, right? But I get it. And so then the one gentleman on the show was saying, Oh, well, if this is patriarchy and they had an agreement, then I agree with what the dad's doing because, like, then call me, I'm part of the patriarchy, I'm part of your problem, whatever. But I don't think that was the issue, right? I think it was more that the woman saw it as the dad trying to control the daughter, but the dad was like, no, we had an agreement. And so she's breaking the agreement. I'm not gonna pay for her school now, which I understand. But also, if you think back 50, 60, 70 years ago, these opportunities weren't around for women to pursue, right? Like financially to be able to do it on their own. And I just don't I don't think it's a patriarchy thing. I think it's I think it's totally different. But anyway, like your grandmother and your great-grandmother stayed at home and didn't maybe didn't work because that's what society had them do, right? They weren't able to do it.

SPEAKER_01 8:58

I guess we have a little bit of a different perspective on this because take out take out the patriarchy, take out, but just look at the relationship of father and child. Yeah. Don't you want your child to be successful? Yeah. And if she was going to become a therapist, many of them are also doctors.

unknown 9:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:20

You're just not a surgeon. So her path changed. She's still going into a very expensive career with a number of years and very high tuition costs. Yeah. And again, I'm working off of limited information here. So bear with me there. Give me some grace. But as a father with your daughter, I could understand if she says, Well, I'm not going to school anymore and I want to open my own art studio, and this is what I'm I understand then that if you had this agreement and you wanted her to get higher education, etc., maybe then. But at this point, all she's saying is, I still want to be in this field. My calling is different. And as a father, you're going to pull back funding your daughter's education for what? For what purpose? That's not going to help her in any way. It's not teaching her a lesson. If anything, it's going to create resentment between the two of you. You know, now she has an obligation to follow that through, to graduate, and to do well with her life because her father, in his responsibility, is setting her up to be successful. I'm helping you so that you can be successful. So go be successful. And then you need to be able to live independently. And me helping you with your education helps you live a better quality of life, etc. I'm not saying he should be flipping the bill for his adult daughter for the rest of her life, but you made an agreement to pay for her education. Her educational path is changing. It's not in the exact direction you want it to be. And so, yeah, that's the part where I go. That feels like control. That feels like manipulation. It doesn't feel like a very fatherly thing to do because you're not really teaching your daughter. And you at any point you can update the terms of the agreement. So you can say, okay, if you want to go be a therapist and you still want me to fund your education, then I would like to request that you do ABC. And maybe again, I don't know enough to say what those requirements could be, but have her pursue the highest level of education she could get there to maximize her finances, etc. So you could change the terms of your agreement because this is a father-daughter agreement. This is not a transactional agreement outside of family. So I feel like there's some different dynamics there that I would that I would push on. And I feel like what a position of privilege for a father to be able to carry that power over his daughter. Like, are we missing that? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:46

I don't know. So I don't really like that part.

SPEAKER_00 11:50

Well, I did, I feel like that there were no conversations, right? It was just uh, you're not doing it, okay. Then I'm not supporting it. Right. And it wasn't, it was like no conversation. And I get it. If you're if you have an agreement, you talk about the agreement and adjust the terms, but you don't just take away completely.

SPEAKER_01 12:08

Especially not as a father. And you you being a man and not recognizing that you've had different opportunities in your life that have also helped to get you into a position that you're in where you can assist your daughter that way. It just doesn't make any sense to me that you wouldn't. Again, this is a father-child relationship, and I think that that's what adds the uniqueness to it that this isn't a friend or a mentor or something who said, I'm I'm gonna do that. This is a father to a child, and I think that you should want your children to be able to get ahead. Our entire responsibility as parents is to prepare our children to be able to live successfully on their own. And if you were planning to pay for her education anyway, what's the difference? She's still going into a medical field, she's just not gonna be a surgeon, and she's going into one that has that will make her happy and fulfilled for the rest of her life. And don't you want that for her too? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:02

We've passed the days of just going to work to work a job to make money and hate it. Yes, right? There's there's more to life than that, especially if you're spending 80 to 90 percent of your time in that world.

SPEAKER_01 13:15

Mm-hmm. So yeah, that one's a little bit I don't know. I'm judging, and I shouldn't be judging. It's not for me to judge, but everybody parents their kids differently, I guess. This is true. Uh but going back to just some of the data you were sharing before that, because I thought that this was interesting considering the two of us are entrepreneurs now. Yeah, the same data that you were referencing earlier actually shows that the number of women-owned businesses grew by over 12% recently. And that's nearly double the growth rate of businesses owned by men. So it completely changes the definition, right? When you open your first independent brokerage account or sign the deed on a home you bought with your own money, your entire professional posture changes. So did you have a did you have a financial milestone in your life that made you realize your economic power?

SPEAKER_00 14:13

Yeah. I don't think so. I just know since I started working, like babysitting at 12, I know that my goal was to be able to buy my first car. And I remember my grandmother, like, when I when she was like, Oh, what are you saving for? What are you working towards? And I was like, I want to have my own car, and she's like, Um, you're 12. So I was like, Yeah, I know. I have five years because in New Jersey you get your license at 17. So yeah, I have five years to save up and buy a car. Now, granted, I did buy my first car and it was very, very inexpensive, but you know, it was $2,300 for being a first car. Like, that's a never no, that would never happen today.

SPEAKER_01 14:53

No, no, used cars now are an insane amount of money.

SPEAKER_00 14:56

Yeah, and so at the time it was the car was it was a 1990, and I got my license in 1996. But that was something that I wanted to work towards and have be mine, you know. Like I was talking to somebody about this the other day. My brother gets his license, played sports, he got handed a car. My mom purposely bought, we had my dad had his car, my mom had a station wagon, my mom purposely bought uh like a smaller, like little car, so that when my brother got his license, he would have a car. And then I used her wagon when I was preparing to get my license and practicing, and then but we didn't have an extra car for me, so I had to buy my first car, yeah. But I danced, I worked, and I went to school. My brother he would work some summer jobs, but he didn't work during the school year. He wasn't allowed because he played sports.

SPEAKER_01 15:57

Interesting. I think that I didn't have a necessarily a moment that I was like a power moment with finances, but I had a moment that changed the way I perceived finances, and that was when I was fresh out of college, I had done everything by the book, right? I had I had gone to college, I worked through college to be able to pay, I took out minimal student loans and paid my the other half of my tuition. My parents helped me with room and board there, but I was able to really cover a significant amount of my tuition. I graduated early because I wanted to be in the workforce. I got a job in the industry. I had my own apartment, I had my own car, I had benefits, I was living independently, I was doing everything you're supposed to do as a young adult. And then I got pregnant and I very unexpectedly became a single mom. And even though I had everything I was supposed to have the college degree, a good job, a salary, benefits, all those things. If I were to remain in the apartment I was in, then my son and I would have had to been on assistance. I could not give him, I could not afford to give him the life he deserved. And I'm not even talking about extras, I'm just talking about like normal life stuff and live at the apartment we were in, and and I had a used car. My car was like 18 years old, my cousin had given it to me. I mean, you know, it was like a Pontiac Sunfire, I think, or something. It was really a car with like a 1991 car, and this was 2004. I mean, this car was ridiculous. It wasn't like I had extravagant things, and I had to move home with my parents in order to give my kid the life that I felt that he deserved that would be healthy and comfortable for him or afford daycare and things like that. And it was that moment where I realized, okay, I have to look at what we're supposed to do differently, and what is acceptable income to me, and what what is really income enough to survive, and income enough to create that freedom that we were talking about. So that I think would be my wake-up moment for the importance of financial literacy and going beyond what we know to be true, which is get a good job and get the benefits and get a savings account, maybe a 401k, and all of those things. It's much, much more than that if you want to have a more comfortable life.

SPEAKER_00 18:23

Yeah, I feel like you know, we were never prepared in a sense, and I I think my mom did a pretty good job in letting me know what kind of financial impact I would have beyond college. Because like when I was in college, I still worked a little bit and went to school. And granted, my parents were a great support system and hike helped me financially, and then even graduating college. If I was in a bind and I needed something, my parents would always support, right? But I was adamant that I didn't want to go back home, and so I did go back home in 2004 for like 10 months, and then I went back to Rhode Island because I couldn't stay home anymore. But there's so many things in that you don't realize that you have to pay for before you're paying for them. And so the fact that they are providing that in school now, I think is extremely beneficial. Because you know, you when you get your first paycheck, you're like, but I worked all these hours. Where the hell's FICO? What's happening? Where's my money going? Why are why are they doing this, right? And so I just there's so many instances where you don't realize what you're actually gonna be taking home. And I think that's that's the bigger wake-up call, too, right? Yeah, all these people just taking stuff out of your paycheck every time you can.

SPEAKER_01 19:45

I also think, and this is something I've learned as I've gotten older, I don't know if it's true for women, men, or just everybody in general, that our thought behind money, especially now, it's kind of hard not to feel this way, is that if you want money, if you pursue money, you know, these sayings like money is the root of all evil. And it's like, yeah, that can be true, but also it can lead to your financial freedom. And you have the choice of what you do with your money. If you are successful enough, blessed enough, lucky enough, whatever it is, to be in a position of wealth, you can choose to give back, you can choose to invest in the world, you can choose, you can choose to invest in other people. So I think that idea that money is bad or too much money is bad, I feel like it's like anything else. It can be if you don't treat it right. And I think that's why financial literacy and education is so important. But it the more money you have, the more people you can help, also. And if you look at it that way and you say, hey, like that guy you were referring to, I'm in a position where I can help my daughter get a surgeon's education debt-free, amazing. And I'm in a financial position where I can give back to my local community in a way that helps feed or house the homeless or helps provide food and shelter for to single mothers and their children. Like any way that you I could buy books for the library, whatever it is that you choose to give back with, if you think that money is the root of all evil, you'll never pursue it in a healthy way. But if you look at money as like money as the path to freedom, you can pursue it in a healthy way. And you can also pursue it in a way that it doesn't have to just be your freedom, you can provide that freedom to other people, you know. I think there's so much talk right now about Elon Musk becoming a trillionaire at a time where so many other people are now below the poverty level. And I look at that and go, you could end world hunger as a trillion, you could end it. Yeah, what are you doing? But I mean, I think about that all the time, where I think about there are people out there with tremendous wealth that you never Hear about because they're giving back, they live modest lives, and then there are people like that where it's look, you earned your money, okay. I mean, but what are you doing with it? Because I hate to remind everybody you can't take your money with you to the grave. So I always think about life like what is the legacy I'm leaving behind for the people who are here after I'm gone, because that money isn't gonna go into the ground with me. He's gonna leave it to his 13 kids. Okay, and then what are they gonna do with it? I mean, you're a trillionaire, so when you have that kind of financial freedom, what do you do with it? And I'm not saying that people have to give all of their money away. I just question people who go, When you've got that kind of wealth, what are you doing with it? Is it just sitting in your bank? To do what? Create more wealth for what then? To go to space?

SPEAKER_00 22:56

To buy social media platforms and then turn them into dookie.

SPEAKER_01 23:02

Well, I think you know, going back to financial independence for women, I think we can look at it differently. Like I said, focus on the financial literacy piece, especially right now. I don't want this to be a turnoff for our listeners who are like, I'm financially struggling. I don't even know how I'm gonna pay my rent or my mortgage or my child care this month. Understanding that, understanding that's a real thing that you face, but look at your financial literacy and say, are there opportunities for me to be better educated about how to handle wealth when I do come into it? And what is my relationship with money in my head? How do I think about money? Do I think about it as the root of all evil or do I think about it as a path to freedom? And depending on what you do, move forward. And then how are you teaching your children? I follow a woman who she her she's the money queen or something. She was talking about her daughter who's young, she has an account, and she said she's teaching her daughter, who's about eight, might maybe even younger, to always know how much money she has in her account. Yeah. And always be thinking about oh, if you want to get that treat, and it's on a very small scale, obviously, she's a kid. If you want to get that treat today, what's that gonna do to your bank account? Because you were saving up to buy this Barbie dream house or something, right? And always looking at the relationship between an impulse buy versus a long-term savings goal, and you're doing that at a young age, and when you think about it like that, you start teaching those behaviors at a young age with kids and especially young girls, what does their relationship with money become?

SPEAKER_00 24:35

Right. It's definitely a much more healthier approach, yeah. To what you see now, like is you see people that randomly come into a lot of wealth and then they blow it all so quickly because they think it's gonna last forever and it doesn't, right? They drain it so quickly.

unknown 24:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:55

Yeah. I I want to talk too about women who are running sort of their financial ecosystems solo. There was an interesting, as I told you, I started out my life as a single mother, but the Census Bureau shows that women had 80% of all single parent households, and 82% of those single mothers are working full-time.

SPEAKER_00 25:17

Which also puts a huge financial burden on them when it comes to childcare and being able to support their children and be there on a regular basis. Because I'm sure if they're dealing with any of the work environments that we've talked about previously, everybody's requiring them to be in the office, and so it's not like they have flexibility that they should have to be able to support their families.

SPEAKER_01 25:39

But I also want to reframe that a little bit, right? With all the struggle that comes with being the single mother, you are also the CEO of your home and the chief financial officer of your home. Yeah. And I think Tupac said, Mama made miracles every Thanksgiving. And there are so many women out there making miracles for their kids out of small amounts of money. And when we talk about financial literacy, to take that and go, if I'm able to do this with little, what can I do when I look at money as my path to financial freedom? And how can I do that? And how can I teach my kids so that they can live better than we're living now? And I think there's a tremendous power in women if we can reframe how we look at things like that and start taking steps to even the tiniest, tiniest step toward that financial freedom. Yeah. All right, so for our listeners, Rebecca and I wanted to leave you with an operational checklist so that you can maximize your financial leverage no matter where you are. And the first one is always know your real numbers. Stop guessing, stop estimating, run a full audit of your active income, your current assets, any corporate retirement balances, monthly operating expenses, and your exact net worth. You cannot optimize what you do not track. So make sure you're really looking at that in depth. And then number two would be scale your earning power. This is your highest leverage asset. Your wealth scales when you master salary negotiation. And Rebecca shared with us her negotiate her app that you could probably leverage for that. When you secure executive promotions, when you cross-train into highly monetizable expertise or launch high margin entrepreneurship, side hustles, things like that. So scale your earning power. That's number two. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 27:34

Number three, deploy capital into high yield assets. So you don't have to be wealthy to invest, but you have to start somewhere. Maximize your corporate 401k match. Most companies, if they offer it, do match today, even if it's a minimal amount, which is better than nothing, right? Fund an IRA and automate monthly contributions to diversified brokerage funds. Let compound growth do the heavy lifting. Number four is secure an unshakable runway. Build a dedicated emergency fund that covers three to six months of absolute living expenses. This isn't a rainy day fund. It is your professional breathing room, so you never make career decisions out of panic.

SPEAKER_01 28:18

Such an important one.

SPEAKER_00 28:19

Yeah, especially in these times where there are all these layoffs happening too. It's really important to be able to have that fund. Um five, commit to continuous financial education, read the top wealth books, consume premium business content, and partner with elite financial professionals. So understanding tax law and asset management is the highest return on investment you can make.

SPEAKER_01 28:46

Yeah, and a lot of these books are free. You can borrow them from libraries and you can get a free credit for Audible books. I mean, do your best to find some way to get that financial education.

SPEAKER_00 29:00

And then number six is create your own strategy. Whether you are single, married, running in an empire, or climbing the corporate ladder, everyone deserves a personal, distinct financial strategy. A healthy romantic partnership or a strong corporate salary is phenomenal, but it never replaces personal financial literacy.

SPEAKER_01 29:22

Absolutely. Okay, so those are your six, your six tips, your six steps for a financial strategy. And then we also want to move through some common myths that will create limiting beliefs around finances. Myth number one, I don't make enough to invest. The data proves that consistent $50 monthly automated contributions beat waiting five years to invest a lump sum every single time. And then myth number two, my partner handles the finances. And alignment in a relationship is great, but delegating 100% of your financial literacy means you are choosing blind spots in your own household. This is critical, I think, for women. Just because your partner handles the finances doesn't mean that you shouldn't have awareness, education, and input into it. And don't give up that autonomy in your home. You need to have equal say, even if one person sort of runs the logistics of it.

SPEAKER_00 30:20

Yeah, and I not to go all Debbie Downer, but I will say I have seen friends of mine have parents, and one of them all of a sudden drops dead, and then the other parent, usually the woman, doesn't know where the financial information is, how to pay the bills, any of that, because they were never a part of that conversation. And then it's too late, right? I mean, even people within our age I've seen have issues with that um if a spouse uh is no longer with them, whether they just up and leave or they actually die. So it is very important to have full awareness there.

SPEAKER_01 30:59

Anyway, absolutely. It gives you that financial freedom and autonomy we're talking about.

SPEAKER_00 31:05

Myth number three I've made too many financial mistakes in the past, or it's too late. Your financial history is data, not a lifetime sentence. You pivot your money.

SPEAKER_01 31:15

Say it again, Rebecca.

SPEAKER_00 31:16

Say it. Your financial history is data, not a lifetime sentence. You pivot your money strategy the exact same way you pivot a business strategy by running an audit, changing the parameters and executing moving forward. And I I think that's really important to remember because you know a lot of us go to college and sign up for credit cards, right? And then you automatically get into this crazy debt early on in your 20s, and then you are paying for it for a lifetime, so you think, but it really, you know, once you're paying off your debt and not having late payments, those are the things that are gonna impact you more negatively than having that large debt sum. So I think it it's important to remember that the information resets every seven years, too.

SPEAKER_01 32:06

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 32:07

So let's do a quick lightning round, Katie. What is the single best financial negotiation move you've ever executed in your career?

SPEAKER_01 32:15

I think I think back to when I was working full-time and I went and got my master's degree, and I was in a director level role, but I wasn't able to be as present for my kids as I wanted to be. And I had another company recruiting me, but they were recruiting me for a downgrade in title. And I struggled with that a little bit, and I said, okay, if I'm gonna do this, right? The only reason I'm considering this is because I want to be more present for my kids. My kids were little then. So I negotiated, yes, a lower title, but a higher salary, and working remotely at a time when remote work was not a thing. So I had to go in for the first 90 days of training, and then I was fully remote. And I negotiated that very early on, and it actually set the trajectory for me. I was promoted within two years at that company back to a director level role. Then I was a national director, I had multiple salary increases, stocks, all of the good things, and it was probably one of the best negotiations I made for me personally in my life, and then also because I was playing the long game of getting into a bigger company with bigger earning potential, bigger title potential, and realizing that I could make that move without a financial hurt, but all of these other benefits, and the only real hurt I was taking was a lower title at a bigger company, and it ended up blowing, it was a two-year stint of a lower title, and that's it. After that, so that was probably one of the best negotiation moves I've ever executed. All right, so with that, we encourage our listeners to again keep that continuous learning going, get your financial literacy up, and maybe change or reframe your relationship with money to see it as a path forward and not necessarily you know money is the root of all evil, or that you're stuck where you are if you are in a difficult financial position. Things can always change, and it only changes if you change things. So look into how you can become more financially literate and what else you can do in your financial portfolio. Don't forget to like, subscribe, and follow us.

SPEAKER_00 34:18

Follow us and all your socials, NFNA Podcast. Until next time.