#8 Dr Teyhou Smyth: Boundaries, Burnout and The Contradiction of Selfishness

In this episode of I’m Fine: The Truth Behind the Smile, Jayne Ellis is joined by mental health professional and licensed counsellor Dr Teyhou Smyth for a powerful conversation about burnout, emotional exhaustion, boundaries and the pressure so many people feel to keep saying “I’m fine” when they’re anything but.

Dr Smyth opens up about her journey into mental health, explaining how she realised her earlier careers lacked the depth and human connection she was searching for. Now teaching at Pepperdine University in California while supervising new clinicians entering the profession, she speaks passionately about supporting the next generation of therapists - especially students navigating the isolation of online learning without the mentorship, community and support systems previous generations relied on.

Jayne and Dr Smyth also discuss the emotional toll of helping professions, the importance of boundaries and the reality of being constantly perceived as “the person who helps everyone else.” 

Together they explore modern overwhelm, trauma dumping, family dynamics, and the growing need for genuine emotional support in a world where everyone seems too busy to truly connect.

The episode also tackles why so many people default to saying “I’m fine,” even when they’re struggling. Dr Smyth highlights how men in particular are often conditioned to suppress emotion and avoid vulnerability - something she says can later manifest in addiction, burnout and mental health crises when feelings remain unspoken for too long.

The conversation takes an unexpected turn when Jayne introduces the phrase “responsible selfishness” - a term Dr Smyth says initially sounded contradictory, yet believes captures something deeply important about self-care, boundaries, and emotional survival in today’s world.

This honest and insightful episode shines a light on why protecting your own wellbeing is not selfish at all - it’s necessary.

About Dr Teyhou Smyth

Working at the intersection of mental health, creativity and performance, Dr. Teyhou Smyth specialises in relationships and attachment issues.

Using a unique blended approach of Emotion Focused Therapy (EFT) and Cognitive Behavioural Therapy (CBT), with the emphasis on an attachment-based model, she helps clients to deepen emotional awareness and improve their relational dynamics with others.  

Originally from the United Kingdom, Dr. Smyth brings an international perspective. She earned her B.A. in Psychology from the University of Southern California, completed an M.A. in Sociology at Goldsmiths, University of London, earned a second Master’s in Marriage and Family Therapy from the California School of Professional Psychology, and holds a Doctorate in Pedagogical Sciences.

Dr. Smyth helps clients rediscover balance, authenticity and joy so they can become the best version of themselves. Her philosophy is simple: when you feel grounded, connected and self-aware, you gain the clarity and insight that naturally enrich every aspect of your life.

Find out more: https://www.drteyhou.com/

Connect and Follow: https://www.instagram.com/drteyhou/ ( @drteyhou)

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61586663035346 

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-teyhou-smyth/

EF training exists because nobody should have to pour from an empty cup. Founded by Jayne Ellis who learnt the hard way so you don't have too.

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If you or someone you know would like to join the conversation and be a guest on our podcast, please get in touch. 

Connect with us at info@eftraining.co.uk

Visit us at http://eftraining.co.uk for more information about Jayne Ellis and learn about our Compassion Fatigue and Emotional Resilience Training for Organisations and Individuals.

Please note: This podcast is intended for education and supportive purposes only and is not a substitute for professional mental health support. If you are struggling, please reach out to a qualified professional or contact your GP. 

The views and options expressed by guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views, values or position of EF training Ltd. Guest content is shared in the spirit of open conversation, learning and intended as a safe space for honest dialogue. 

Transcript

0:00

Hello, and welcome to this week's episode of I'm Fine. My guest this week is the lovely Dr. Tehu, who I have known for a very long time. We met over a stroppy horse because a mutual friend of ours put us in touch with each other when Tehu had a horse that was trying to kill her at some point, I think, or trample you into the ground. And that started a friendship that has lasted for quite a long time over a couple of continents, and I will let her introduce herself. It's my pleasure to be here, Jayne, and very exciting to be on this lovely podcast. So I'm Dr. Tehu. I am a licensed mental health therapist. I qualified in the US, and I've been in the field of mental health for the last almost coming up to 14 years now, which is quite a long time. All during COVID. I've seen a lot in the field. Yeah. A lot happened. I see obviously clients individually, I run groups, I teach. And right now I am supervising as well new trainees coming into the field, which I really enjoy. And also teach classes at Pepperdine University in Malibu, California. I've been part of the faculty there for the last eight years now. And that's great because it's really training a new generation of clinicians coming through the ranks, as they say. And then also, I am a consultant to the Board of Behavioral Sciences in California as a subject matter expert, which essentially means I get to overlook the exams and make sure that they are reliable and that they are valid. Mental health is regulated in the US. Most of my work is with the US, though I do work in the UK as well, but most of my work is in the US. And mental health is regulated in the US, very much so it's a little bit different than here. Why did you decide to go into the field of mental health? Because you were not doing that when I first met you and then it was something that you decided that interested you. What was it that, that made that decision for you? Was there anything in particular I had already done psychology as an undergraduate, and I had a bachelor's in it. But of course, when you do that and you're 22, 23, you don't think about what you're gonna do with it. So I went on to have different careers, and I was trying different things. But everything I was doing, it was lacking this one essential component that I didn't understand at the time, which is depth. I needed to be working with people. I enjoyed working with people always. And I always had an insatiable curiosity about humans and their behaviors. But I needed to work with people on a deeper level, and nothing I was doing that. So after trying lots of different careers and things out, I finally went back to re-qualify to work as a psychologist. And really, my goals at the time were quite simple. They were literally to be able to gain enough tools to help people and make a difference in their lives. And that is the field is a helping profession, and anyone that's in a helping profession or works in that capacity understands that. But I wanted tools that I knew could really work and help make a difference in people's lives. So that led me down this very amazing path which took a very long time to qualify for, but was a very interesting journey in the process. And quite painful from time to time, I seem to remember. Very. Yeah, very. And very draining. Sitting with people and their challenges and their emotional distress and turmoil has got to be, just even energetically speaking, one of the most draining things you can do. And I don't think that I was prepared for. That part I didn't know. Obviously I knew it wasn't gonna be like rainbows and unicorns- but I didn't realize just how draining and the toll that can take. Yeah. We talk about that a lot because that's why I'm doing what I'm doing, to try and help people- Yeah understand it. Obviously, within the world of psychology, they are actually better at looking after each other than they are in certain of the health and social care environments that we work within. But if you were to go back to the first day when you enrolled on that course, what advice would you give yourself as to how to deal with the trauma that you were witnessing? I think one of the things I'd really wished that people had told me is that clinical work is draining. It really is. And in order to continue doing it and to be well yourself, you need a really strong support system around you. And you also need uplifting activities that you build around that to balance out the drain from this other side. And though actually, we're very lucky because the way the kind of traineeship and everything is set up, there is mentorship. There's a lot of mentorship until the time you qualify and then you get licensed, and then once that happens, they just leave you alone. But it is up to you to continue building that and finding that, whether that looks like consultation groups, whether that looks like your own therapy, whether that is just really positive, supportive people around you. But you do need to really find a really solid support system and enough of a support system around you- to just counterbalance the drain from the other side. I wish someone had told me that. The other thing that I really wish is that, when you're in a helping profession, people think that's your identity all the time. All the time. Yeah. Even when you're not working, That's just who you become. And that in itself means that often you can get trauma dumped on you, you can get projected on. Yeah. Also you just become this one-dimensional person with this identity of you're somebody that helps people. It's yeah, but I'm also a human. I also have needs. I also have other interests. I'm not just this one entity wandering in the world that is just completely invisible and just there to serve only. And I think that also becomes an area of growth and constant development- that you have to figure out and balance. But yeah I really wish that, there was just more of an explanation of that. But not just saying "Do this," but also explain how to do it. Because I think right now what I see, particularly in the young trainees, they do not have any support system. Because the thing is they're all online. And that's already isolating, as we all know. Because they don't see other, students necessarily in person, they're all dispersed, they're all over the place, there isn't that mentorship and that community, so they feel even more disconnected. Yeah than I did. That's what's happened with this online education. Yeah. So they really don't have it, and for us it's important because you need to have a community as well, because you need to be able to do referrals, you're not gonna be qualified in every aspect of mental health really well. So if you come across something, you need to have other people in your network you refer to, and a lot of the young clinicians don't even have that right now at all. Yeah, that's not good. Are you seeing people who are not making it through the courses because of that? Is that starting to happen, or do people find their way through it? No. I think people do find their way through it, but not well. Oh, okay. Go through something doesn't mean, you do it well or you're well doing it. Yeah. Just qualify as something doesn't mean you're good at we have this real problem in the world right now anyway. Just 'cause you do something doesn't mean you're good at it. You could be a doctor, you're a good one. You could be a lawyer, doesn't mean you're a good lawyer at all. None of these things are connected. I think a lot of them have fumbled through and because they don't know any different as well, they just stay in their lane, but it doesn't mean it's right or good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we've talked a lot about boundaries, haven't we, over the years? Yeah. And you're quite right. When you work in a helping profession, you become the job, and actually people introduce themselves as their job, don't they? You say, "What do you do?" And you say, "I am a Yes rather than, "I work as a..." Because it's seen as a vocation. Sure. And we talk about this on the training. They s- people say, "I am a nurse. I am a doctor. I am a lawyer. I am a therapist." Yeah. And you're like, "No, that's not who you are. That's your job." Because then the boundaries get blurred. So how have you dealt with some of those boundaries? Have you found it easy to put some in place with the people outside of your professional environment? I'll tell you one that's gonna make you laugh straight away. I don't tell people what I do. I'm not gonna tell an Uber driver what I do. Because the minute you tell somebody what you do in my field, it immediately, "Oh, my daughter this morning, she didn't speak to me. Do you know why that is?" And you're like, I have no idea." "I have no context. I don't know." And people get weird. They think you're a psychic. They think you can read their mind. They get all woo-hoo I just don't tell people what I do unless I'm in very specific context. Yeah. I'll even go as far as just saying I'm a professor But then even then when they go, "What do you teach?" If you happen to say psychology, "Oh, everyone has something to say. So that's a boundary I've put in place because people are really obviously desperate to share their stories and struggles, and if they find that somebody is naturally in that capacity and they think you have the answers, which you definitely don't, but they think you do, they'll throw you under the bus and they'll go, "Okay, can you tell me what to do?" And you're like, that's not even what I do. Therapy is never about telling someone what to do. And they're like, "Wait." And so it becomes all very So that's definitely a boundary- Yeah just not telling people what I do. Yeah. Also I think just, the accessibility is a really interesting one. There are times that are carved out that you need to stick with that are your own time and private time and I think whatever you're doing, that's important for you, and to make sure nothing interrupts that is really- Yeah I've had to really learn that the hard way because I was very accessible, and it's good to be accessible, but I was overly accessible. And then what happened, I'd get dragged into things, and then that window was gone and I can't get it back. Everyone has busy lives, so yeah. Yeah. That's a really good tip actually. I know my friend who worked- as a an A&E doctor will always tell people that he works in a library- Yeah if you ask him 'cause as soon as you say- Oh that then you've had it, and that- Yeah, absolutely and then you're locked in a black cab with someone. Completely, and then you're stuck. And then, yeah it's not pleasant. And people generally are not very mindful like they see you as who you are as your profession, but they're not mindful about anything else that you might be going through at the moment. You might be really hungry. You might be trying to run to the bathroom. You might have had a massive argument with your partner. And they're not thinking about that, right? They're just thinking about "Oh, you know what? Let me tell you my story of what happened to me today." And you're like I, I didn't even say I was interested, but the presumption is that you're always interested- Yeah because of what you do. And these things are pretty fascinating. So boundaries are absolutely essential. Yeah. That's harder with family, though. It is, yeah. Oh, families, yeah, absolutely. Family is very complicated for many reasons. So obviously you know the title of this podcast is I'm Fine. Are you also guilty, like the rest of us, of saying, "I'm fine" when you're not? And why do you think people say that? Because it is quite a common phrase. It's a sort of throwaway phrase that somebody else... You'll say, "How are you?" And you'll just say, "I'm fine." Have you said it, and do you understand why people do say it? Yeah. So I'll answer this in kind of two sections. I think the first one, just saying, "I'm fine" has just become a formal protocol. It's like an automatic response. I think it's just a formality. And I think, people are used to saying, "I'm fine" because everyone is so busy in their lives, and most people don't understand the need to create space for others and give time to others. And they can't or won't or, all sorts of reasons. But they're so preoccupied with their own, thoughts, lives, issues, you name it. So I think most of the time people just assume everyone is too busy and doesn't really have time or even are interested in much more. So they just go with the standard response of, "I'm fine." And in our modern lives, I think that is, pretty, like particularly living in big cities where there's hustle and bustle, that's the norm. Now, what's really interesting is when you go to smaller communities like an island. I was born in Hawaii, actually. But when you go to smaller communities and life is slower, they seem to have all the time in the world. Yeah. They really do because they're not rushing. But their lives can also be a little simple, which there's nothing wrong with at all, but I think people tend to create more time and space for others. And how about you? Have you done it? Have you said you're fine when you're not? Oh, all the time because I just don't feel like people most of the time have the bandwidth or are even interested in knowing much else. And I think one of the things that happens when you're a trained therapist is you're really taught never to talk about yourself. Talk about what your needs are, talk about... Anything to do with you is pretty irrelevant because you're there to serve, and you're there to hold space for others, and you're there to help others process their distress and turmoil. You and your existence and what you're about doesn't matter. I think a lot of therapists feel like that. We have a very, one dimensional existence as far as our work goes. Sessions are never about how we are, how we feel or what we think. They're always about the other person. Yeah. And rightfully it is a very one-sided relationship. But I think also we carry that into other aspects of our lives, and it just becomes the norm. And I don't think a lot of people are very comfortable, Jayne, as well, talking about how they are and how they feel. I know it's only fairly recently we've even become more aware of it, but I think most people just use the word, "I'm fine," yeah. And they're not. They're absolutely not. That's why, and I can tell you, and I hate to say this, but males are particularly prone to this because of the way they're socialized. And this is why our addiction centers and treatment centers are full of men, because you know what happens? They don't do this. They don't acknowledge a lot of things because of the way they've been socialized, and it shows up in all sorts of other problems for them. And then it's not until they're, in treatment centers, in a room, and somebody forces them and then they finally speak up. Yeah. They really struggle. That's- Yeah hard. That's hard. But yeah, it's something that needs to change. Talking of change, if suddenly You were going to be in charge of psychological services for the university, and you were gonna run all of those courses, and you were in charge of, and you had this massive budget. Because we're always about trying to find solutions at EF Training, as if I was to say to you, given the fact that you know a lot of these students are now doing it online, is there a way that the universities, 'cause I know a lot of them are doing the same thing, could support those students better during that time, right from the very start? And then when they've qualified as well? Yeah. I think if they really take time out and then do one-on-one check-ins and appointments, whether they're in person if they can, or even online. But just checking in, asking if they have questions, asking how they're doing, and just creating space for that is really key, because that's what they do not do. And they have all these people they've hired in all these different areas, and there's not one person that checks with students on a regular basis. "Oh, I'm here in case you need me." But I know it doesn't work. I've been in education for eight, nine years. It doesn't work. Yeah. "I'm here if you need me." It's like the writing support team. "I'm here if you've got an issue with writing, reach out." Okay, but this is not an issue with writing. Yeah. This is issue with the journey in mental health. I think there's some universities that are starting to get it, but it's still very much of a, "Hey, if you have a problem, reach out and we're here." It doesn't work. Yeah. No. It doesn't work. I don't know why they keep doing it. Because if it worked, you wouldn't have this massive mental health issue among students right now. Yeah. Yeah, it doesn't work at all. We need to set up our own university, Tae. Yeah, we need to clone ourselves a little bit- 'cause I don't think there's enough hours in a day to do all the things that we need- Yeah, I know to do. It breaks my heart because we still see very newly qualified health and social care professionals who come to one of our training sessions and still don't know what vicarious trauma is, never heard the phrase. They don't understand that what they're feeling is completely normal, and that it's just an occupational hazard of working- Yeah in other people's trauma spaces. But It's never been talked about, and it's got to change. It really has. Don't get me on my soapbox. Let me get back to you. So obviously we call it responsible selfishness in the training. What do you do to look after yourself? So first, I have to tell you, the first time I saw that, 'cause I saw that in the questions, responsible selfishness I've never heard of it. It was- I created it. It's absolutely fascinating. It almost seems like a contradiction in terms when I first heard it, because how can you be responsible with selfishness always deemed as a bad word? 'Cause I think that's the problem, right? Yeah. We've made selfishness a really bad word. You're not supposed to be selfish. But that applies to extreme cases, people who never think about others or, but responsible selfishness is a very interesting- term. And when I read it, I was like, "Oh I've really never heard of that." But I do think you're onto something with that because I think whether you call it time for yourself or, whatever you wanna call it, space for yourself, mindful moments or a mindful life, we do need to have it because our worlds are very overwhelming. We are bombarded, and we're busy, and we're overwhelmed. And if you don't take that time to recharge then you just run on this empty battery. But going back to the things I do, I think what's helped me tremendously is to engage in uplifting experiences. Because what I do is draining, so whenever I'm not doing that, I have to find things that are uplifting for myself. And, luckily I have a real creative side, so that's helpful, and I like being active, so that's helpful. I like my pets, my animals, my horses. Obviously that's how we met. So it's just accessing enough of that to balance the other side, and I think for me, that's been the game changer. But it's gonna be different for every person, They call it self-care in our field in the US, but it, the self-care that you have as a clinical therapist, what might work for you is different for me. But you have to create time and space and actually do it. But it needs to be, like, molded and designed for you by you, if that makes sense. Yeah, completely. Yeah. Because, obviously you walk the dog, you go riding- Yeah you sing- Yeah which is great. And those the things that refill your emotional energy. Yeah. Because otherwise your emotional energy is gone, and then you don't have enough for yourself- Yeah and you don't have enough to give away. Yeah. So that was the idea behind the phrase responsible selfishness. Not saying that you're more important than what you're trying to do, but you're as important. And I always say, if the people that you're trying to help, if I ask them whether or not you should look after yourself, they say, "Yes, please, 'cause otherwise you're not gonna be here for me." I don't think a lot of people- So- have been told how to look after themselves. I think- No I've spoken to a lot of people, and even I see my own family members. I don't think it's something that's taught. I don't think it's something that's learnt. I don't think we necessarily saw our own parents do it- at all. It depends also which environments you came from. If you had very kind of high achieving, successful parents that were very busy, like you didn't see the self-care element. So it's something you really have to learn. And if you are in fields which are like nursing, social care, you really need to understand that, that it's not just something you do once in a while. It's something that you almost have to do every day or- Yeah as possible. Because you don't have a job which is like everyone else. That's what I wish someone had told me as well, going back to your earlier question. What you do is not like what everyone else does. You just don't. You're dealing with people's deepest, darkest struggles. Yeah. No you're quite right. So keep on looking after yourself. Yeah. Keep on being responsibly selfish, because the people that rely on you need you, and I need you because you're a very good friend. And thank you very much again for coming on my podcast. It's been fascinating to talk to you. And take good care of yourself. Thank you, my lovely. You too. Take care.