#11 Trust your Gut and Speak Up: Lucy Tebbit 31 years on the NHS Frontline

In this insightful episode of The Truth Behind the Smile, Jayne Ellis sits down with A&E Matron Lucy Tebbit to explore the realities of a life spent caring for others.

With more than three decades on the NHS frontline, Lucy shares the lessons she’s learned about trusting your instincts, finding the courage to speak up and navigating the emotional impact of witnessing trauma, grief and loss from a young age.

Together, they discuss why so many healthcare professionals say “I’m fine” when they’re anything but, the importance of having safe people around you, and the hidden challenges nurses face every day. Lucy also reflects on the privilege of caring for patients at their most vulnerable, the importance of self-care, and why remembering who you are outside of work is essential for longevity in such a demanding profession.

This is an honest, moving and inspiring conversation about resilience, compassion, leadership and the power of saying, “I’m not okay.”

A must-listen for nurses, healthcare and social care workers, leaders and anyone who has ever hidden their struggles behind a smile.

Lucy shares: I am a passionate ED nurse, who values the team I work with, it is a privilege to support them and work alongside them. I am a wife, Mum of 2 and soon to be Grandparent. Out of work I love supporting my local football team, going to the gym and spending time with my family. 

Connect with Lucy: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lucy-tebbit-97a258256/  

EF training exists because nobody should have to pour from an empty cup. Founded by Jayne Ellis who learnt the hard way so you don't have too.

If today's conversation resonated with you, please subscribe, share and leave a review - it helps more professionals who care find this community.

If you or someone you know would like to join the conversation and be a guest on our podcast, please get in touch. 

Connect with us at info@eftraining.co.uk

Visit us at http://eftraining.co.uk for more information about Jayne Ellis and learn about our Compassion Fatigue and Emotional Resilience Training for Organisations and Individuals.

Please note: This podcast is intended for education and supportive purposes only and is not a substitute for professional mental health support. If you are struggling, please reach out to a qualified professional or contact your GP. 

The views and options expressed by guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views, values or position of EF training Ltd. Guest content is shared in the spirit of open conversation, learning and intended as a safe space for honest dialogue. 

Transcript

0:00

welcome to this week's episode of the I Am Fine podcast with me, Jayne Ellis. This week's guest is a very good friend of mine, a lovely lady called Lucy Tebbitt. Morning. Lucy and I met, we've just worked out, about 23 years ago, she's a wonderful person and a great friend. And we met because our children were at the same school, and then we discovered that we obviously shared the same profession, and we have known each other personally and professionally during that time, crossed paths on several occasions. I'll let Lucy introduce herself and tell you what she does now. S- so I'm Lucy Tebbitt and as Jayne said, we've known each other a long while. I started my nursing career when I was 17 and a half, 'cause that's what you were allowed to do in those days. You were allowed to apply for your nursing, and I got in at 17 and a half. Qualified and in those days you had to do six months on a ward, so I worked on the assessment unit for six months before going to A&E, 'cause that was my love, and I've been there on and off ever since, so 32 years this year. Wow. 31 years actually. Scary stuff. And now I'm the matron of A&E, and it's a job I absolutely love and I'm really proud to do. If you went back to 17-and-a-half-year-old Lucy Tebbitt- what advice would you give her? I was thinking about this earlier and it's really tough, isn't it? Because I always say, "Don't ever regret anything," and I still would say that to 17-and-a-half-year-old Lucy, "Don't regret anything. And the best thing to do is listen to your gut." And I really believe that. You have to listen to what your gut is telling you. It's almost that stranger danger stuff, all the stuff that makes you feel a bit icky in your tummy. It has served me very well for 30-odd years in nursing, and I think I'd say to her, "Listen to it, believe in it, and believe in yourself, and don't be frightened to speak up." Because I think when you're 17 and a half, it's a bit tough, and I was just 20 when I started in A&E. And I think it's really tough to be... You don't wanna be that bolshie, newly qualified nurse. But equally, if something in your gut is telling you something's wrong, speak up. And I think I would say that, and I do say it even now to our junior members of staff and our newly qualifieds. I say, "Just speak up. Don't worry if you get it wrong, doesn't matter." And I would say that to myself. And I still love my career, which is incredible really, when you think how- challenging the NHS is at the moment- I still love who I work with. And so I would say it's all gonna be okay. Yeah. Stick with it. Going back to the idea of speaking up- do you think there are reasons within, certainly within the NHS, which is obviously very dear to both our hearts, are there reasons why people don't speak up within that organization? It's really difficult 'cause I think The team I work with are very good at speaking up. I think that's part of being an A&E nurse. I think you tend to be the more outspoken, bit more gung-ho, "Yeah, I'm gonna speak up." I think people get nervous to speak up, especially if it's someone more senior, a consultant. You might be in fear of speaking up for that. And we were chatting offline about this. I was quite poorly this year, and I had a very junior, brand new staff nurse looking after me, and she was brilliant because she put me in my place. And- I was poorly, and being me, I haven't got time to be poorly. And so I was saying, "No, it's fine. I'll just take a few deep breaths." And she said, stop. I'm your nurse today, and please listen. You do need some oxygen on." And obviously I listened and as I did as I was told, but I was also really proud 'cause I thought, "Yes, you're speaking up. You're speaking up for your patient." And that's all I want people to be doing at work, is speak up, be brave, say, "I'm not happy with this." And I've had lots and lots of instances throughout my nursing career and where I've been. So I did a long time as the nurse educator for A&E, and I used to say to the students that when they came in, "Just speak up. If it doesn't look right, just say it, because we might not have noticed." And there's lots now about human factors that we're learning about and discussing. But back in the bygone years we didn't know what it was called, but you would listen to that bit. But I think- I used to say to them, "Even if you think it's silly, just speak up." And they'd say, "That's beeping. I don't think it's plugged in." And you think, oh my goodness, that could've been catastrophic. But because you've given them that voice, they will speak up. And I hope and I do believe that where I work and the team I work with are very happy to speak up. I think it's probably the A&E nurses. I think they're a bit bolshie, in a good way, 'cause I love being an A&E nurse. Yeah. No I completely understand it. And I think if you look at the NHS from the outside, maybe people don't really understand why it can be difficult at times to speak up, because of it is still quite a hierarchical organization. Yeah. And there are times when, you know, especially when you're a younger nurse, if you look back at your career, when there were times when you didn't feel able to do that. Absolutely can you think of a time when, maybe looking back on it in reflection there was a reason why you didn't say something? Without a doubt. So being a very junior nurse I witnessed something that was really quite awful, and I didn't know how to deal with it. So best case scenario, ignore. And luckily it, it didn't last very long, because actually the patient made a comment, and my senior sister was there, and I said, "Actually, I did see this, and this is what happened." But I think, I don't know that I would've spoken up because again, I was a 21, 22-year-old, very young, very naive. This was a much more senior person. And luckily, again this nurse was by my side and said, "That's fine. You need to speak up." And interestingly, she still works with me, so we have worked together, or she's worked for the NHS, and this is the beauty of our team. I think it's, she's coming up to 45 years in the same department. Wow. So I think it is that whole, we're very comfortable to speak up. It's so big now, I don't wanna lose that feeling that actually there'll always be someone there to put their arm around you and say- Yeah "Come on, we'll do this together." Yeah. And I think that's why I've always... although it was a very difficult situation for me back then because I had that more mature senior nurse put her a- arm around me physically and emotionally, I felt, "Fine. Okay, I can do this." Yeah. Uncomfortable. And I hope that's what we continue to make our staff feel, is that they can. Yeah. Yeah. Be great. That's good. That, that is, that's... But it's creating that environment where people feel that they can do it without feeling ridiculed or in any way that, any shame in saying that they don't know. You mentioned the emotional side of it as well as just, the physically standing up and advocating for patients. Do you think that 17-and-a-half-year-old really understood the emotional impact of the job? Absolutely not. Not a clue. No. It's just not normal what most 17-and-a-half-year-olds see and what a nurse, in my 20s I had seen horrific death, terrible tragedy some really gruesome sights. You're just not equipped for it. You're just not emotionally ready. And when I look at 17-year-olds now, I think, "Crikey, I was looking at, dead bodies." And it sounds awful, but it's true. But I think it's given me a really good perspective on life because I cherish what goes on in my life. I cherish what I do. I am grateful for really boring things like picking elderflowers yesterday, because I just think, "Aren't I lucky? Aren't I lucky?" Not everybody gets tomorrow, yeah. It's not a given, Yeah, so I think through all the trauma and awful things I've seen, and believe you me, I've had some sleepless nights with the stuff we've seen I think the overwhelming thing I've bought is that I am privileged. I'm privileged to be there at the end of people's lives, to hold people's hands, to guide them through the beginning of the most horrific grief journey. And I'm also privileged that I get to say, "Aren't I lucky that I've gone home to my family?" Yeah because a lot of people don't. And it teaches you things like don't go to sleep on an argument. People say that all the time, but actually, I really feel that it's so important to be kind and don't go to sleep on an argument because it's just not worth it. It's just not worth it. No. Sort it out. Yeah. So thinking about the emotional impact that it has had on you that's a very positive there. But obviously There will be some negative as well. And we called the podcast I'm Fine because certainly for me, I know that there's been times when I've said that, and I've said it to stop people from asking me. Absolutely. Are you aware of times when you say that you're fine when you're not, and why do you say it? So I do say it a lot because... Then there's lots of reasons for it. Again, thinking about it, you think, I say I'm fine because I don't want to burden other people. So if you're at work... Actually, if I say I'm fine, we can just all get on with the day. If I say I'm not fine, then I've gotta, A, acknowledge I'm not fine, and then, B, what's gonna happen? Am I gonna open those floodgates, and am I gonna start crying? And actually I haven't got the time for that today 'cause I've got too much going on, or it's not necessarily a safe space. You could be in a meeting or, somewhere where you don't feel you can do it. So I have definitely said I'm fine on lots of occasions when I don't really mean it. But I think the way I look after myself, again, I think this comes with age and experience, is I know who I can say, "Actually, I need some time out." And I make sure that there's safe people around me that I know if I say I'm not fine they will do the emotional arm round. Not necessarily physical, but they will be there and protect you. And protect you might mean that actually you just go off and buy a cup of tea and have a little cry or, just have a walk round the perimeter. Our perimeter is a mile, so it's really useful to know that you've just walked a mile just to clear your head. And I think it's really important to find your safe people. And I think it gets more difficult the more I hate the word the higher up you go, I don't want to burden a newly qualified nurse with me sobbing in the corner. I'm not afraid to cry in front of them, and we do cry, when we've had some awful distressing things happen. I'm very happy for those tears to come because I think it's important for everyone to see that we're not robots that don't cry. Yeah but equally, if you're saying, "I'm fine"- in front of a band five because it's just not the right time. That's okay, I think. Yeah. And what if somebody says, "I'm fine," to you and you know they're not? Yeah. So I'm a bit nosy, so I will... I dig a bit. I'm always digging. But again, I will look at the scenario. So we have hubs at the doctor's office or the doctor's and nurse's office. If I say, "Are you sure?" You don't really wanna do that in front of potentially 20 people. So I will always try and find a space and a time to take people away and just say, "What's going on?" And I hope this is how I feel it goes, but only my colleagues can tell you, but I hope that any one of them will come up, and quite often they will come up and say, "Can I have a word?" And we know that's a key to... into a room, box of tissues cup of water, tea, whatever, and just tell me. And quite often it's not the awful things that make them sad. It's the continual hard work's not the right word, it is exhausting. Yeah. And maybe they don't feel they've given the best care that they want to. I say this all the time, none of us go to work not to care well for people, and it may just be that actually somebody has really tugged at their heartstrings that day, and they just need to talk it through. Most of the time they're worried that, they've done something wrong because they haven't been able to give the best care, and that makes me so sad. Yeah. If you talk to people outside of the health service, they're often surprised that we don't get training on how to deal with the emotions. Have you had any stress management training or training in how to handle the emotional impact of the work that you do right from when you were 17 and a half? Not for years. The trainings that I've had, we've done together. So you and I have done compassion fatigue training. You've taught me a huge amount. And I always use your analogy about leaving things at the bus stop. This is my thing that I tell everybody- because it's so important. Honestly. And I still see those little figures sitting at the bus stop. And for anybody that doesn't know, can I tell them about your bus stop? Of course you can. Yeah. So for me all the training I had before Jayne came in to teach us about compassion fatigue was little bits and pieces, nothing concrete, nothing regular. So- When Jayne came in and we talked about leaving things at work, and it's really tough. It's really tough to, when you've had a bad day... Sometimes I'll sit and just think before I come home. But Jayne always talks about leaving things somewhere on your journey home. So Jayne will know exactly where this is, 'cause we've lived in the same place together, same village. So I would drive out past the Toby Carvery, there's a bus stop on the left, and she will say, "Leave it there." So all of the sad things that have happened or things that have upset me, I try and leave at that bus stop. That poor bus stop is crammed full of my woes. But it's so important, and I tell everybody, and I'm always saying to people, "Don't take it home with you." And yes, I do still get woken up at night by some of the sad stuff and some of the horrific stuff. I think that's okay, because you've got to acknowledge that actually what we do is pretty tough. Yeah so it's okay to acknowledge that, but I do try and practice what I preach and think that's it." Okay. Then I go home, and then don't carry on with this at home. And we've now got trim training in which was brought in by the trust. And again, it's great for staff to be able to know that these feelings are normal. It's normal to lose sleep over seeing horrific things. But as long as it's not continually impacting on you, I think that's- No the important thing. So up until fairly recently, I can't remember when we did the training, but it's not been part and parcel of our life. And what I've learnt is what other people have taught me and what I've found to work for myself and I do a lot of reading, and I try and look after my own mental health- Yeah by making sure I do other things. But it's not, yeah, it's not high on the agenda. No. So Mr. Streeting has obviously resigned. Yes. Sadly. And and there will be somebody new. So if that was you, if I gave you unlimited budget you've got billions of pounds. What do you think we need to be doing at the moment to support the staff better, emotionally as well as physically in the NHS at the moment? If you sat in front of the new person, what would you say to them? It's a topic that they say they're going to try and eradicate is corridor care. So- Okay let me tell you, caring for people in a corridor is the most difficult thing, and I don't go to work to not care for people in the right place and give them the best care I can give them. We have got all sorts of things in place to try and, make sure it's as dignified as it can be, but it's awful. And so the big money needs to go on looking after social care. We need to make sure that there's beds available so that people don't spend a long time in corridors. So that part of it would then look after the nursing staff, because actually you've not got that moral injury of caring for people in the wrong place and not being able to do your best for your patients. I would then also get them emotional support. As with all trusts, We have got a great employee assist program, and they do offer counseling, and all of those things are really important. But I think being able to sit and have time to debrief over things in a safe and comfortable environment. So I would have a really nice... probably two rooms if we've got plenty of money. One for people just to sit, relax, have a cup of tea. Not expensive, doesn't even need to be Fortnum's tea, although I like a Fortnum's tea. It can be any tea. Have a cup of tea, just sit and chat, and by sitting and being able to protect that time is invaluable. So years ago, and I hate saying that, I never thought I would, but we used to do eight-hour shifts, so then you'd have a handover period. So then everybody got the chance to sit together, and for me, having that time to be able to sit with your peers and just debrief. And it doesn't have to be because something awful's happened. It just can be, "Crikey, this is hard. I didn't understand this new thing on our computer system" it could be anything, but you just need to- Yeah. Show me the new equipment. Yeah. Yeah. Anything. Yeah. And then another little room. I'd want two rooms. So one for everyone to sit, and then one quiet room where actually you have those difficult conversations, where you can have time to sit and say- let's go through something awful, a- and then big enough that we get the paramedics in, we get the police in because when something awful happens, everyone's there together and then everyone goes off. Yeah. And I might not see that policeman again, or policewoman, for weeks and weeks until something awful happens again. And actually having that time and place to feel safe and supported I think would be amazing, and it's just time. And- Time to take a breath would be amazing. Yeah and if there's no one being cared for in the wrong place, that would be even better. Yeah. Yes. Okay. You fixed it. Starting with social care. Yeah. But it's true. You know- Yeah it has to start there because then you'll see the drop in the number of people who are in hospital for huge lengths of periods of time. Then the people that need to be in can get in. Yes, absolutely. And you won't have a- Ab- absolutely I just hope that the new person who comes in can see that this time and I think we need to be more open and honest with the public and say- Yeah "This is what's going on, and I'm really sorry, you will be turned away. This is not an emergency." But- Yeah the point is we've got nowhere to turn them away to, so that's what needs to get better. And people- Yeah get sick of us, and I get it, but we need to look after people in the right place so that they- Yeah they don't just all end up in A&E. Because actually and this is what I would say to the staff, nobody chooses to spend their days sitting in an A&E waiting room. It's because they've got no other option. So there needs to be those options. Ideally. Yeah. No that's a really good point. So let's turn it back to Lucy for a minute. Okay. So you've designed this ideal workplace, which is, that's fantastic. Yes. So what about you? How do you look after you? So you've said that, your mindset very much is that, you embrace every day because you're faced with it on a daily basis, that, awful things can happen in the blink of an eye. What is your responsible selfishness? Because obviously that's what we talk about in the training. Ah, okay. Tell me a little bit about what you do to look after yourself. So I do lots of things. I like to go to the gym and, I'm no super sprinter, super weightlifter, but I just like it. I like putting on music no one else would like to listen to. I put my music on, all sorts of weird and wacky stuff and just go and spend time in the gym, have a sauna, have a swim. Just being, as you say, responsibly selfish. But, that's taken me a long time. I've really struggled with saying it's okay to just go and do nothing. And actually, sometimes I just lie on the sofa, can you explain why you find that hard? Because, I think you should always be doing. I think the job we do, or the job in A&E it never finishes, so you're always doing. So then when you stop, you feel, "Oh, I could just put the washing on, and I could just do this." But actually, the washing will still be there. And it's taken me a long time to say- washing can wait. I'm gonna go to the gym, or I'm gonna go for a walk I am gonna read a book, or I'm gonna watch a bit of rubbish telly, and it's okay. But it's taken me years to get to that point, I think, because... And again, you know, we've both got grown-up children now, but you're always mum, you're nurse, you're wife, cook, cleaner, whatever that day brings you. And then you feel really bad when you're actually going, "Actually, I'm not gonna do anything." Yeah. And that's okay. It's taken me a long time to say, "It's okay, Lucy, just to sit." And I think also I've got a husband that does a very different job. He does a very city job. So when he's not working, he wants to be out and about and busy. Whereas I think, "Oof, no." And it's getting that balance and understanding it's okay that he wants to go running or doing lots of strenuous things, whereas I would like to just sit and watch telly, and that's okay. And it's just- Yeah making sure you have those conversations so that you understand each other and say, "Actually, I am exhausted, and I just need to sit." I've got a Cricut Machine, which I love using, so I make T-shirts for people and all sorts of silly things. But it just keeps my little brain busy. I love sticker books. Yeah. The World Cup football is on, so I've got sticker book again. I love sticker books. Fabulous. Everyone else will be like, "What a strange lady." But I don't care, because I love football, as I go to football all the time. And it, I think because I've not got that creative, people sit and draw and paint, I can't. But actually, that mindfulness of sticking things in a book, I love. 'Cause you can get yourself lost in sticking on a page, and that's what Cricuting is as well, sticking. Yeah. And I love it, 'cause I can lose myself. Sad but true, I love a sticker book. It doesn't matter, does it? We were at a big A&E department up north I'm not gonna mention, 'cause this is- their senior consultant I'm talking about. And we went round the room, 'cause I was just doing a conference. And so I tend to ask people if you've got the perfect day for yourself, what you're gonna do. And they all went round the room. And the thing is, I think there is a personality type to nurses as well, isn't there? Yeah. That we are, like, we over care, so we find it very difficult to care for ourselves, don't we? Yes. So we always care for other people first, and so asking somebody to do something like that. So sometimes people can't think of anything that, that they were gonna do on their perfect day off. And we went round the room, and people say, "I'm gonna go to the gym," or, "I'm gonna go to the spa," or, "I'm gonna go for a walk or read a book," whatever. He said- paddle boarding, but I'm still in the car park." And then he moved on to the next person who was sitting next to him, at which point his team went, "Sorry, what?" And it was because he's not good enough. He kept falling off in the car park, so the instructor was laying on the horn to him. I love it. But you know what? He was trying. Yeah. It was something that he'd always wanted to do. And, like you with your sticker books or, your cricketing or whatever it is, it's something that just takes you away from the really hard job that you have for a while, doesn't it? Yeah. So it is, it's important. It's so important, and I love football and so I go and watch my beloved Slough Town, and that was my dad got me into that, and we still go along. But people who know me as Lucy the matron then see Lucy at football and think, "Oh, she's a bit different," because I'm loud, I'm singing, I'm, probably a little more loud than I would be at work. But it's just that release, isn't it, of, you know- Yeah singing and, playing musical instruments and just having a laugh and just being you because you spend a lot of your time at work being... I'm still me, but it's different. So it's so important. Yeah. And I like to put all of that on my Instagram because I just think it's important for people to see I am normal and it's okay to do other things. And I hope- Yeah by doing that, I'm teaching the next generation of nurses a bit of longevity because that's what my worry is how are they gonna do 30 years in nursing, 40 years in nursing? So teach them that it's okay to go off and do silly things, stick stickers in sticker books or go and watch football or go to the gym. It's so important. Yeah it is so important. And that modeling the behavior to help people understand that it's so important when you do such an emotionally demanding, dangerous job- Yeah to go out and have fun and have that other side to yourself is so important. If you were gonna give the nurses that are listening, especially the junior ones, a piece of advice to finish with, can you summarize what you've just said in a way that if you were saying, if they stood in front of you, in order to survive, what you need to do? So I would say thank you, first of all. Thank you for giving yourself to nursing because, as you've said, it is a job- I don't necessarily like the name vocation, but I think naturally we are very caring people, so you are giving of yourself all of the time. And I think thank you for doing that. Thank you for looking after other people's families and friends, and giving up your time with your families and friends. Christmases, New Year's Eve, all those things you're doing, giving up that time with your family to care for others. They're superheroes as far as I'm concerned. And I think it's okay to leave on time. It's okay to say I'm not okay." It really is important to say, "Today I'm struggling. I'm tired. I need a physical hug or I need something to support me." That's okay. And make sure that you remember who you are. So when you are at work, of course we're professional, we document everything, all of those things that we know that we go on and on about in nursing. But remember who you are, and remember to look after yourself. And say I'm good at what I do." Be proud. Be so proud to be a nurse. And I am still so proud to be a nurse, and I will continue until I retire being very proud of what I do. Brilliant. Thank you so much for being my guest. It's a pleasure. It's always an absolute pleasure to talk to you. You're a wonderful person, and I hope that you carry on until you retire. I hope so. And then they'll miss you very much. But thank you again, and carry on taking good care of yourself. Thank you. I will. Great. And thank you It's been a fantastic opportunity. Thank you. You take care.