EPISODE 8: 2000AD PART ONE

Welcome to Morgan Talks Comics - you might notice the name change, which I will be bringing in soon, as the show has become more about talking about comics and their history, rather than just focusing on cult comics. I love comics of all shapes and sizes, so the show name will change to reflect that.

This week, I'm talking bit the great British comic, 2000ad, which is coming up to being 50 years old, a remarkable feat in publishing, let alone in comics. I've been reading 2000ad on and off since I was about 10, and it was the first comic that really grabbed my attention, and made me want to be a cartoonist - I have had artwork published in 2000ad!

This week, I'm looking at an issue/prog from last week, and I'll be retrospectively looking at some older issues in future episodes to see how 2000ad has changed over the years. Joining me again is Eliza-Mariah Chamberlain.

Hope you enjoy this one, I loved talking about 2000ad's history and cultural impact. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome to Morgan's Cult Comics, a podcast that has a deep dive into comics from the past and the present. I really started collecting comics and also really started making them in the 80s and still collect and make them now. Each week I'll be picking out some of the unknown gems and cult favourites the Word World of Comics has to offer and taking an in-depth look at what makes them worthy of being a cult comic in my eyes. Let me introduce myself. I'm Morgan Gleave, a professional cartoonist and comic junkie. I've been drawing cartoons and comics for as long as I can remember, and I've been reading them for as long as I can remember too. I was very lucky to have had some really cool comics and graphic novels bought for me when I was young, which grew into a real love of comics and cartoons of all shapes and sizes. I really love comics and cartoons, so I hope you enjoy listening to the show and have as much fun hearing it as I have making it.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

What's this we've got today?

SPEAKER_02 0:52

So this week we're looking at um British Comic 2000 AD, which is just coming up to its 50th anniversary. Uh started publishing in 1976 as far as I'm aware, and it's the first comic that I actually really started collecting when I was about 10. Um I'd started reading another British comic called Tornado, which then merged with 200D, which was quite often the pattern with comics that didn't do as well. Um they would merge into more successful titles. 2000D's got quite a long history of that, he merged with quite a few other comics, bringing in some of the characters from them from them as well. But yeah, so 2008 has existed for nearly 50 years now, and when I started read that's it was my gateway to actually starting reading and collecting comics.

SPEAKER_00 1:44

Yeah, I've actually heard of 2000. Isn't that I thought you said 2001?

SPEAKER_02 1:52

No, 2000 AD.

SPEAKER_00 1:53

Oh, 2000 AD. Well, nevertheless, I have heard of it, even if I'm confused. But I as as far as I'm aware, I've never actually seen a copy to look at. And I have to say I do like the font. The font cover is really good.

SPEAKER_02 2:09

Yeah, so this is a really great artist um who goes by the the the pen name of ING Coolbard. Um done lots of he's worked, done work in America as well, did a great anthropomorphic series uh a couple of years ago, which was really brilliant, and it's been really the 2008 is kind of a a almost like a launch uh jumping ground. Jumping ground launch pad for British artists. There was a a period in the 80s which we've I think we have talked about before when a lot of artists and writers who worked for 2000 are artists like Dave Gibbons and Simon Bisley, um Cam Kennedy, loads of artists went to work in America for Marvel and for DC. Writers like Alan Moore, Alan Moore's sort of recognised as one of the godfathers of modern comics, even though he doesn't write comics anymore. But Alan Moore started writing for 2000 AD. Um, so we've seen it's it's a it's a launch pad for so much so much British talent, and it's and it still is, still, you know, it's still quite a coup to get your work published in 2000 AD.

SPEAKER_00 3:16

Mmm, that sounds good. I thought this was a tear. What is that?

SPEAKER_02 3:22

It's a vapour trail coming off a spaceship. So there's there's a spaceship cro c crossing the logo there, and there's a vapour trail coming off from behind.

SPEAKER_00 3:30

Oh, I actually really thought and I went like that. But there's it is a nice cover. Oh, there's the is she supposed to be an alien? No. Because she's got strange eyeballs.

SPEAKER_02 3:43

Yeah, I mean, I think it's just down to um the way the artist choose to choose to draw the character. Um read Brink, I was reading 2000 a few years ago, and I think I read the first couple of books of Brink. This is I think I think Brink is the title of the story, and she's what she's the main character.

SPEAKER_00 4:03

And what's her name?

SPEAKER_02 4:04

I don't know, but we'll probably find out as we go as we dive in.

SPEAKER_00 4:09

Right. I I do like that. That's nice and clear, nice colours.

SPEAKER_02 4:13

Yeah, too. It's it's always had it's always had I think 2000 has always been well designed and well put together.

SPEAKER_00 4:20

Should I turn the page? Is that two pages?

SPEAKER_02 4:27

That's two pages. So the way 2000 is laid out now, they always have this thing. Thar is the editor, he says, in inverted commas of 2000 AD. It was a device they used, bearing in mind this started in the 70s. Th is uh an alien from the planet of Beetlejuice. Um yeah, yeah, and it's be it's is he's sort of a love him or hate him kind of characters. A lot of people think it was a bit silly and stuff like that, but it it's been there all the time. So he's supposedly the editor of 2008, and it so the the fur the inside cover has always been Tharg's nerve centre, so it gives a breakdown of the um stories that are going to be in the issue, and there's like a little kind of editorial. When when it started originally, they said that it was all made by robots, so you there were like art droids and and writer droids and stuff like that. And there's been funny strips in the past about Thog and the droids having adventures.

SPEAKER_00 5:28

Well yeah, I suppose he has to do something when he's not on the films, not he's not being a film star.

SPEAKER_02 5:33

Absolutely. Yeah. Um so this um so this is Venus Blue Jeans.

SPEAKER_00 5:39

There's uh it's written there.

SPEAKER_02 5:41

This is uh this is coming up, this is a story that's coming up, so it's called Thrills of the Future. That's a story that will be coming up in prison. It's I have to ru remind people that 2008 comes out every week and has come out every week for over 50 years. That is a so it's a weekly comic, comes out every, I believe, Wednesday. Wednesday's become the new the the day for new comics now, and so Wednesday is is when everything comes out.

SPEAKER_00 6:06

Yes, have you got every copy?

SPEAKER_02 6:09

I had lots of copies, so I started reading it when I was about 10, so it would have been about prog, I think 125, and I had easily 500 copies. I've had artwork published in here as well. Oh, which is a bit I had not seen that. Yeah, I need to dig that out.

SPEAKER_00 6:24

I think you should not be able to discuss that so you can show off a bit.

SPEAKER_02 6:28

Yeah, um, like you said, when I started, this was the first comic, 2000 was the first comic that I really got into, and I really started collecting every week. I used to walk to the news agents every week to pick up my copy on a Saturday morning with my pocket money, and for a long time it was where I wanted to be published because I didn't really know about American Comics then, and this was like really the biggest comic in the UK, so this is where everyone kind of hoped they would get published.

SPEAKER_00 6:57

Right, you didn't answer my question.

SPEAKER_02 6:59

Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 7:00

Have you got all the copies from the beginning?

SPEAKER_02 7:02

No, I've not.

SPEAKER_00 7:03

Right.

unknown 7:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 7:05

Issue number one sells for about£100 a copy.

SPEAKER_00 7:08

Mm-hmm. Well I'd like to s I'd like to see it, but not£100 worth of seeing it. Yeah, so this is a story. Where's the oh this so Judge Dredd is I've heard that.

SPEAKER_02 7:22

Yeah, Judge Dredd is is um excuse me, 2008's flagship character. He's been in every issue since issue two. He was introduced as a new character in issue two of 2008.

SPEAKER_01 7:35

So he's been in a film, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:37

So there have been two so far there have been two Judge Dredd films. There was one made in the 90s, I want to say, early 90s, with Sylvester Stallone, which a lot of the fans don't like because they because the whole thing about Dredd is he wears his helmet all the time, you never see his face. Judges are the police force of the future.

SPEAKER_00 7:59

Yeah, but I can see his face there.

SPEAKER_02 8:01

That's not Dred.

SPEAKER_00 8:02

Oh well, where is he not?

SPEAKER_02 8:06

Dred Dredd's here in in the background here. He never it's it's become a it's a thing that in in his hist all of his history he's never taken his helmet. Well, he has taken his helmet off a few times, but the face will always be seen in a silhouette, heavy black, so you never actually see his face.

SPEAKER_00 8:20

You'd have to have a um somebody that wasn't famous playing it then, didn't you?

SPEAKER_02 8:26

Yeah, what what happened when they made the second film in the um I think it's 2012, I could be wrong. Uh was with the actor Carl Urban, and uh Urban stayed in character, so he kept the helmet on all the way through the picture.

SPEAKER_00 8:39

Well I've never heard of him, that could be why.

SPEAKER_02 8:42

He's been in Star Trek in the more recent Star Trek films, he's in a great series called The Boys, which is about superheroes.

SPEAKER_00 8:49

Never heard of that.

SPEAKER_02 8:51

Really good, really great actor, he's done Marvel films, he's yeah. Um and there is there are uh there are not exactly rumours now, but it it's apparently there's going to be a new dread film coming out. Right. Would I like them? I don't know, because they can be quite violent.

SPEAKER_00 9:12

They fight all the time.

SPEAKER_02 9:13

There's a lot of fighting.

SPEAKER_00 9:14

Oh, I'd get bored with that, I'd wander off and get a fight book, wouldn't I?

SPEAKER_02 9:18

But controversially, I actually quite like the Stallone film. The big the big thing was that Stallone took his helmet off and he doesn't wear a helmet for the lot of for a lot of the film, and so like all the really hardcore fans say, Oh, it's not really Dredd because he's taken his helmet off. So well that doesn't comic comic book fans are a we're a funny group.

SPEAKER_00 9:37

Anorax.

SPEAKER_02 9:39

We could possibly be called Anorax if that makes sense to anybody.

SPEAKER_00 9:43

Anyway, so this is to lots of people.

SPEAKER_02 9:45

This is this is Judge Dredd, so he's the flagship character of 2000 AD. So he's been in there since episode two, since prog number two. Who's this? So that'll be one of the tech judges. They have slightly different designs of helmets.

SPEAKER_00 10:00

And he's he's just another character. He's just another character. Somebody that's important.

SPEAKER_02 10:05

Yeah, so these ones here in what look more like spacesuits, you can see that they're judges because they wear these badges with their with their names on, their surnames on.

SPEAKER_00 10:14

That's the premise, they're judges, do they go and judge people?

SPEAKER_02 10:16

So, yeah, so basically it's when 200D started, um a lot of it it was quite it was quite violent, quite controversial, but it was about predicting the future, and and direct judge direct the judges are basically the police force of the future, but they have in some cases they have the right to execute. Oh they would have died because they all they all carry guns called lawgivers.

SPEAKER_00 10:44

And this is an English one, and this is an English one, it's completely unlocked.

SPEAKER_02 10:48

But interestingly, it's set in a future uh future version of America, so it's after there'd been like a thermonuclear war, so there's a there's a big area of the land called the Cursed Earth where it where there's eight um mutated people and stuff like that. There was a big the first epic dread story was was the Cursed Earth. It ran for about three months, I think, and it was an ongoing story through a dread going through the cursed earth and encounter mutants and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 11:18

I was wondering what these are, they look like arms.

SPEAKER_02 11:22

Um these are known as heist heist gear, so they're at they're uh uh designed for high high altitude work. I think they could like allow you to they've got magnetic gloves, knee pads, and boots here, they're saying.

SPEAKER_00 11:37

Does that oh is that that's something that's not normal, it just happens in this episode.

SPEAKER_02 11:42

It just happens in this episode, yeah. And as you can see here at the bot, just in this bottom corner before we move on, they have that used to be called the credit card uh in 2008, and it would it would be where the all of the artists and writers would be credited. So you've got you've got writers first, then artists, then the guy who does the colours, and then uh Annie Parkhouse is a living legend in British comic. She's been lettering probably longer than 2000, it has existed, and she's still going to be still doing it now, which is brilliant, and there's a woman still doing it as well, which is fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 12:17

Is it a bit of a man's world? What I actually here have we encountered an artist as female so far?

SPEAKER_02 12:25

Uh we've not looked at any female artists yet. Um there it's growing, it's growing in it there are more women coming into the industry. There's always been women in comics, you know, since the beginning, but um they were kind of few and far between. Now it's much more common for female artists and writers. Caroline Cash, actually, sorry, we did look at a woman's artwork. Caroline Cash is a woman and makes comics.

SPEAKER_01 12:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:51

Oh, I'll clearly.

SPEAKER_02 12:53

She's one of the rising, she's a rising star at the moment.

SPEAKER_00 12:57

Is that Judge Dredd?

SPEAKER_02 12:58

That's Dredd. So you've got Dredd here in the background. They're wearing these slightly different versions of their uniforms.

SPEAKER_00 13:03

I think it's just as well he keeps his face covered. He's not as pretty as Sylvester Stallow.

SPEAKER_02 13:12

So move on to a Oh, what's that?

SPEAKER_00 13:14

That looks I like that panel.

SPEAKER_02 13:18

So it looks like there's some kind of I have to I have to say we've not actually read this copy of 2000 yet. This is last week's copy. Um, as I say, it comes out weekly.

SPEAKER_00 13:28

So you don't know what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_02 13:30

I I know about the characters, but I don't know about the stories because I've not I've not actually read the story. This one this this story, as we can see, is called Climate Crisis, so it's to do with the climate of the earth. So But what's that there? It looks like they've done winter in one in one frame and then gone on sprung it over to summer because you can see everything's melted here. So the sun's cut the sun's come out.

SPEAKER_00 13:54

Oh, I see. It looks like not a character.

SPEAKER_02 13:58

There's a character standing, there's a judge here standing in mirrors, a female judge standing in the middle here being held hostage by someone with some some kind of toxin or something. I think this is looking looking at this is like a climate centre, so there's the bit people are being held hostage there.

SPEAKER_00 14:14

Right, right, like they are. It looks like it's in um I forgot Antarctica or the Arctic.

SPEAKER_02 14:24

Yeah, it looks like that, doesn't it? Yeah. So then we see them floating across floating above the whole earth here, so you can actually see the the clouds and and the sky and everything. And I th I suspect this is a weather station of some kind. In in Dread, the the weather because of the weather, because it's in the future, they can actually control the weather more effectively. Um a lot of it's because it's messed up because of nuclear war.

SPEAKER_00 14:51

So this is pol this is political.

SPEAKER_02 14:54

Oh, dread dread has always been political. It's always looked there's been there's have been stories which are overtly political. Um there was uh story back in the probably late 70s, early 80s called uh that was about uh the chief judge, so the head the head judge was like Cal. It was an abbreviation of Caligula, so it's talking about like the Roman history, but pr pr portraying it in through the modern, through the futuristic world. What was the political bit? It was it was talking about how dictators behave and think they can get away with stuff. Right, that's uh quite um relevant to giving given the current climate we're living in at the moment, yeah, it's quite yeah, pun not intended. Um but yeah, Cal was a a lot about the the politics of power and how power can corrupt and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 15:46

Right.

SPEAKER_02 15:47

It's all it's always 2008 has always been what we call edgy, it's always had a bit of an edge to it.

SPEAKER_00 15:52

Right. Um there's some somebody's got a difficulty here. What's happened?

SPEAKER_02 15:57

So the the g they're going out into into space and they've got these magnetic points on their suit so they can so they're stuck and that's gone. Yeah, it says it was that they work too well. It says the problem wasn't that the magnetic gloves didn't work, it was that they worked too well, and he's got that basically his arms got stuck on the on the outside of the space station.

SPEAKER_00 16:18

Yeah, I'm not surprised he's looking a bit shocked. I'm glad this is just comic, it's not real.

SPEAKER_02 16:26

So this is dread coming to comic. So this is this is drawn in what I would call more of a manga style. You can see the way that the the lines are more jagged.

SPEAKER_00 16:38

But you've got the angle is coming from the the top side.

SPEAKER_02 16:42

And it's the the the way it's drawn is to show that he's dropping at speed, so they these are like speed lines because you know things blur when they're seen at speed.

SPEAKER_00 16:51

Oh right, is that a mechanism? It's a comment on it.

SPEAKER_02 16:54

Yeah, it's a comet mechanism. It's quite it's it's becoming more common in mainstream comics, but it started really in manga in Japanese comics.

SPEAKER_00 17:02

I can't really say see that that's a speed. I don't look at that and think always dropping a speed. Why is it?

SPEAKER_02 17:09

You said lines, because the lines are there's there's lots of lines moving, you know, like moving fast with energy. You can see this whole page here, the lines are cutting into well, it's sort of got a jagged finish to it, so it's because it's showing movement. Oh here, where he's where he's um trying to use the magnet magnetised suit to catch onto the station, and so they're using they call energy lines, so it's to show that there's movement and energy going on because obviously comics are a static art form, so you've got to show movement in it.

SPEAKER_00 17:44

I actually I think I have seen that before. It's just that on that particular picture, and bearing in mind I'm looking over your shoulder, um they were just weren't clear to me, that's all. I couldn't see it. Right. Oh well the the evidence he gets uh caught.

SPEAKER_02 18:00

Yeah. So then they're caught on the on the outside of the station. There's the guy who's had his arm ripped off.

SPEAKER_00 18:08

Um He'd be a bit dead now, wouldn't he? Yeah with all that blood loss.

SPEAKER_02 18:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:16

But it's not real, is it? It's not real. Don't have to worry about him.

SPEAKER_02 18:20

So now they're breaking it inside to the breaking inside to the station. I think now me actually reading the story, I think what's happened is somebody's taken over the clo the weather station and the judges are going in to stop them.

SPEAKER_00 18:34

Oh, is that a her?

SPEAKER_02 18:36

That's a her at the end. I think she's sort of like the villain of the piece.

SPEAKER_00 18:40

Oh Cruella de Ville.

SPEAKER_02 18:43

Got yeah, got a bit of Cruella de Ville vibe. But yeah, so that's Dread, futuristic law enforcement, uh, yeah, quite overtly political. Um the great British writer Pat Mills uh was one of the I think he was actually the original editor of 2000, worked for other comics like action and stuff. Uh he did and he worked on lots of UK comics, but he was kind of the architect of 2008 when it started. So he was coming up with the concepts for most of the stories, even though he didn't start writing them until quite a bit later. But he was he was instrumental in in 2008 being what it was at the time.

SPEAKER_00 19:25

Right. Now, is this a different thing?

SPEAKER_02 19:27

So we're into a different story now here. So we've got a different different crew putting it together, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:33

Oh yes, that's good.

SPEAKER_02 19:35

Other comics don't have that, do they? Usually, um so if you look at like a Marvel or a DC comic, they usually have because they're single issue a single issue of about 20 pages of story, and they'll have the credits at the beginning, so right on the foot, usually at the bottom of the first page.

SPEAKER_00 19:52

Right, not so obvious as that, is it?

SPEAKER_02 19:55

No. And I think this was a big thing, this was get giving artists recognition. So in in other when a lot of before 2000 AD came along, the the the majority of what what we would call boys' comics were war comics.

SPEAKER_00 20:09

Oh yes.

SPEAKER_02 20:10

Well comics, and I'm not I couldn't say with def definitively, but I don't think artists and writers were being credited as much in them. One and I think this is one of the things, and I think this is something that Pat Mills himself came up with, the the fact that they introduced this concept of the credit card, so people actually got credited, even though there was the in-joke that it was drawn by droids or robots, but people actually got credited for what they did.

SPEAKER_00 20:36

Right, so who drew this one?

SPEAKER_02 20:38

So the artist here is uh a guy called Lee Mill Milmore, not one that I'm aware of. P. G. Holden, I am aware of, who's Drew Dredd. I'm I'm aware of his work, I quite like his style.

SPEAKER_00 20:48

And who what who are the other people?

SPEAKER_02 20:50

So we've got David Barnett as a writer, Lee Milmore drawing colours by Gary Coldwell and Letters again by Annie Parkhouse.

SPEAKER_00 20:58

Is she the only one you recognise from that one?

SPEAKER_02 21:00

From that, yeah, because Annie's been there for gosh. Yeah, she's safe. Long time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:05

Yeah. So what's this all about? Is it Hearn? Hearn and Shuck.

SPEAKER_02 21:10

So Shuck. I think what we've got here is we've got a cross of old and new, so it looks like the this character here um is it could actually be King Arthur. It certainly looks like that. He's is wearing is wearing like uh you know traditional plate armour and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 21:33

So these are their names, yes?

SPEAKER_02 21:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:35

Which one's which?

SPEAKER_02 21:36

So I suspect this is Hearn and this is Shuck, I think.

SPEAKER_00 21:41

And well they've got just having a chat here.

SPEAKER_02 21:44

They're talking about Camelot here, so this is what makes me think that this is King Arthur.

SPEAKER_00 21:49

That's reasonable.

SPEAKER_02 21:50

Yeah, because and you can see here in the in the bubble, King Arthur has been picked out in a in a bold italicized font, so you can see it's it gives emphasis to the words.

SPEAKER_00 22:00

Oh right, actually if this is her and shut that can't be King Arthur.

SPEAKER_02 22:03

No.

SPEAKER_00 22:04

So yes. But around that time, why is that green?

SPEAKER_02 22:08

I don't know, they're just trying they're just messing with different lighting effects. You can see the see the way that the characters are lit, you know, where the shadows on the face are and everything.

SPEAKER_00 22:17

That's an extreme.

SPEAKER_02 22:19

It is an extreme. Maybe because there's more bold text in the in this in the bubbles here. They're using the that colour for emphasis to maybe that the the text, the the speech within that panel is more is is more important.

SPEAKER_00 22:34

It's incongruous to me. Just weird. No, can't do that again.

SPEAKER_02 22:44

So flowing into uh the next spread, we're seeing more of the characters.

SPEAKER_00 22:50

You really need to have a bit of a backstory or set uh presumably in other issues they've been yeah I mean this this is um so this is part 10 of the story.

SPEAKER_02 23:01

So this this story's actually been running for a couple of months now for ten weeks.

SPEAKER_00 23:06

Don't they give a a kind of paragraph saying somewhere at the beginning here?

SPEAKER_02 23:12

So we'll go back to the the the intro page. So quite often um what that this is sort of like a a quick synopsis of the character and what the characters like, and then it's very brief synopsis of what's going on in the story. So they say here now terrorists have taken over the weather control satellite and are blackmailing the city, so that's the climate change of the city.

SPEAKER_00 23:36

So there is a little bit of a leading, but that saying what's happening here, yeah, it doesn't tell you uh what led to it. I mean, you know, it's quite often say you where you do a series of um fantasy novels, often, not always, but often you'll just have a a sort of couple of paragraphs at the beginning saying what happened before, how you got to where you are. Because, of course, some people like me today come to this and I think, well, why?

SPEAKER_02 24:10

Yeah, 2002 has has a a great tradition of they have what they call jumping on issues, so they'll make sure all of the current stories are ended, they'll quite often bring in new a new story, so it'll be characters that they've published before but in a new story.

SPEAKER_00 24:26

So will there be another new story somewhere to get you hooked?

SPEAKER_02 24:29

Yeah, so they have they call them jumping on progress prog for program like a computer program. Um and they do these two or three times a year where they'll kind of reset the comic so it gets new people into it, so it's a good starting point, you can jump in on point.

SPEAKER_00 24:45

But that is only to if you happen to buy the ones two or three times a year.

SPEAKER_02 24:50

Yeah. But as I say, because it's a weekly comic, most people read it week by week.

SPEAKER_00 24:56

Yeah, but some everybody's got to start saying I don't. But if I wanted to get this every week, the fact that I don't know what's going on really would stop me.

SPEAKER_02 25:07

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:08

Um what's happened then? They turn the lights out.

SPEAKER_02 25:11

They clearly turn the lights out. I've used this device in some of my cartoons as well when there's been stuff at night.

SPEAKER_00 25:17

What does that say?

SPEAKER_02 25:18

And it says dicks.

SPEAKER_00 25:19

Pardon? It says dicks. Don't you need to have mouths washed out with salad.

SPEAKER_02 25:25

Uh there was the in dread that they used the word drop and stom. They were alternative swear words. Oh, it's not an alternative swear word. No, so for a long time, 2008, the writers in 2008 used they were they were they do close to swear words, but it would but they couldn't actually publish swear words. Given the times we've moved in and it's been around for a while, they've kind of they do the real thing now. They do the real thing now. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:54

Oh, that looks like a dog I had. Yeah lots of years ago. Mr. Billy Sox.

SPEAKER_02 26:00

Does it look a bit like Billy, but I don't think Billy talked.

SPEAKER_00 26:03

Well, I talked to him a lot.

SPEAKER_02 26:05

So these are obviously other mythol mythological creatures, probab I think probably from England's past.

SPEAKER_00 26:14

The Green Man.

SPEAKER_02 26:16

Yeah, it could be the Green Man, but they've made it a green woman that's wearing a wearing a dress. That might be Bodhisattva in the background there. That's her the hunter.

SPEAKER_00 26:27

You don't call her Bodhisur, they are oh you call it Boudicca.

SPEAKER_02 26:30

You call a boudica now.

SPEAKER_00 26:31

That was the pronunciation from Boudicca.

SPEAKER_02 26:33

So and I think this is supposed to be Merlin down here. So this is clearly looking at at British cul uh uh folklore and stuff.

SPEAKER_00 26:41

Yes. What's this?

SPEAKER_02 26:43

So this is obviously supposed to be Merlin here. But what's that? Um that's a pagan symbol, I think, for the earth.

SPEAKER_00 26:53

Right, right. And going back to the Mr. Billy Sox lookalike, yeah. Is that a person or is it just the dog that talks? I don't mean just the dog. Sorry, Burries.

SPEAKER_02 27:07

The dog the dog is clearly a character. He's a character from English mythology. I'm not exactly sure where because they're again they're not putting the name probably if we'd have read more of the stories and not just come in part way through.

SPEAKER_00 27:21

I know I he's only got the one head, so I don't I don't remember uh a dog being in mythology, but not that I know masses about it. What's this?

SPEAKER_02 27:34

So uh Merlin m was nearly always seen carrying a staff which he kind of used instead of a like a magic wand, and it this is in the form of a snake. You can see here there's a form of a snake that he's holding.

SPEAKER_00 27:49

Oh yes, I say. Turns into a snake, does it?

SPEAKER_02 27:53

Yeah. Okay. There's a lot of um the in yeah, the magic from English folklore is is is very it's natural magic.

SPEAKER_00 28:04

Like from druids and the like.

SPEAKER_02 28:06

Oh, here they are, they're introducing or introducing the character so you know who who they're talking to.

SPEAKER_00 28:12

Oh right, that's good. What's this she's got there? Is that a bird?

SPEAKER_02 28:17

I think that's a bird skull with with berries and stuff around it.

SPEAKER_00 28:22

No no point in feeding it now, is it?

SPEAKER_02 28:24

No. So that's the lady of the woods, so a a little bit like the green man.

SPEAKER_00 28:28

Yes. Yeah. And that person looks a cat.

SPEAKER_02 28:33

So Queen of the Selki, Selkie are.

SPEAKER_00 28:35

Oh yes. I do know those from my reading.

SPEAKER_01 28:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:39

They're like um oh what's the what's they called? Seals. Yeah. They're seals, and when they what I know about them is when they come to land, they take their seal coat off and then they hide it somewhere.

SPEAKER_01 28:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:54

And if somebody steals their coat, they can't go back to the sea and think they die, don't they, eventually?

SPEAKER_02 29:01

Something like that, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:02

I'm not suggesting that's real, that's just that's really what happens. Because nobody had steal their coats, would they?

SPEAKER_02 29:10

No.

SPEAKER_00 29:12

And who's this good looking one?

SPEAKER_02 29:14

So this is this is the main character. I suppose I I suspect this is this is either uh what were the characters called? I don't know. Shook. So the characters were actually called Hearn and Shook. So Hearn is Hearn the Hunter, I'm assuming. This must be Shook, who is a normal human being who's encountering all these all these spiritual creatures.

SPEAKER_00 29:39

Won't be normal after that, will they?

SPEAKER_02 29:40

No.

SPEAKER_00 29:41

Need a lot of counselling.

SPEAKER_02 29:43

Probably need quite a bit of therapy, yeah. Yes. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 29:48

Right, on to the is this a different story?

SPEAKER_02 29:50

So this is a different story now. This is this is Brink, which is the story that was on the front cover.

SPEAKER_00 29:54

Yeah. Where's the title?

SPEAKER_02 29:56

Now they've not put it here, they have put the credit card right at the beginning. It's a smaller team this time. So Dan Abner is uh a more well-known British writer who has been writing for 2000 and other publishers for quite a long time. Inge Coolbard is uh is the artist who's done stuff here and and and in America. Um, really like their style. Um, and then we've got letterer Simon Boland, so there's uh another letterer working on here. But so that means that Inge is creating all of the artwork, the line work and the colour.

SPEAKER_00 30:32

Right, and the letter, she was evidently having day of there. Yeah, what was the name? I've forgotten. I thought they made it. Right. Right. This is doesn't attract me because it's all a bit dreary. Is it at night?

SPEAKER_02 30:48

So this is set in space. Uh this is a spaceship flowing flo zooming through space, and then this is the interior this is going inside the ship and seeing the characters talking to each other. They they use here almost like a computer display, so telling you who the characters are.

SPEAKER_00 31:06

Right. Well, you could use this to get the jam out, the last bit of jam out of the jar, couldn't you?

SPEAKER_02 31:11

Yes. So again, this is the centre pages of the actual comic, so we're into a we're into a double page spread.

SPEAKER_00 31:24

Is that the same story?

SPEAKER_02 31:25

This is the same this is Brink carrying on, yeah. So they're talking to the characters in the what looks like the cockpit of the spaceship.

SPEAKER_00 31:35

Again, it's not very appealing to look at all greys and blur colours.

SPEAKER_02 31:40

Yeah, there's a thing about about the interior of spaceships with with the way it's been portrayed in sci-fi science fiction films and in in books and so on, and some of them think they should be quite dreary and sort of like utilitarian.

SPEAKER_00 31:53

Right, like Star Trek.

SPEAKER_02 31:55

And then other ones think, yeah, like Star Trek, they think they should be brighter, more inviting environments. Um and this has gone backwards and forwards in sci-fi for years. Um to the alien films here. This is like the pods they used in Alien.

SPEAKER_00 32:09

I've not seen those.

SPEAKER_02 32:11

Alien's brilliant, such a good film.

SPEAKER_00 32:13

And British director. Right. No, I haven't seen it. Unfortunately, I've seen the bit where he loses his arms by accident. Yeah. Is that the worst bit?

SPEAKER_02 32:23

Probably, yes.

SPEAKER_00 32:24

Right. I'd be send to spend the whole time worrying about when we got to that. I'm not very good at violence on films.

SPEAKER_02 32:32

This is why Eliza Moria flicks through the fight scenes in uh fantasy books.

SPEAKER_00 32:36

Oh no, that's because they're boring. I don't mind I mean, if I read something, I don't mind seeing it either in you know, on television or in magazines or anything that's to do with real people having medical treatment and or an operation or anything like that. That kind of gruesomeness doesn't bother me. But anything that portrays pain I have struggled with.

SPEAKER_01 33:08

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:10

But no, that's too dreary. They always take a leaf out of Star Trek.

SPEAKER_02 33:15

Yeah. So they go they're walking around in the ship and they're they're they're obviously going off on some mission.

SPEAKER_00 33:22

It's a step in the right direction, a bit blue.

SPEAKER_02 33:25

Yeah. I mean it's a nice use, I think it's a nice use of colour here. They're they're changing like the the the tone of the of the pages. And this is as they're they're coming down to uh they're coming to dock onto some kind of space station here. And then there's uh a task force here that are obviously kind of watching and watching lots of things that are going on.

SPEAKER_00 33:52

Like them having the lecture.

SPEAKER_02 33:54

It does look a little bit like a lecture hall, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_00 33:56

Oh, but if you see NASA Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:01

Yeah, they've copied NASA. You'd see lots of screens and controls and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 34:06

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 34:06

And then here, so this is a bit like a TV programme having ten minutes of preamble before the type credits come up.

SPEAKER_00 34:14

Oh my goodness. One on my pet hate. Put that in room 101.

SPEAKER_02 34:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:20

I wondered where the title had got to. I should have realised. Oh.

SPEAKER_02 34:25

So this is and this is this is part one. This is a sort of a uh the start of this. Brink has been running for a while. I think this say this is the fifth or sixth sort of book of it. So this is the f this is the opening. So the we've got an established character here. What him? No, the the lady here at the back at the at the bottom, that's the one who's the woman.

SPEAKER_00 34:52

Oh, we we don't Bridget, I think. Right. Evidently Irish. Yes. Because she looks really Irish, doesn't she?

SPEAKER_02 35:04

And they're giving plenty of space for the story. So this was stories run for four or five pages already. Stories in 2008 2008 tend because it's a weekly comic, tend to be um five to six pages to allow, you know, more multiple stories to be seen in one issue. But so we've got the characters in conference here with this chief character.

SPEAKER_00 35:31

No it doesn't appeal, you know, it doesn't draw me to itself.

SPEAKER_02 35:37

Well this is just an establishing episode, so they're obviously setting up some kind of case or something that they're investigating.

SPEAKER_00 35:45

Oh yeah, the first episode of a comedy's always a bit like that, isn't it? Yeah. Just rolling the next character.

SPEAKER_02 35:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:53

They're discarded. And then we've got the is he stuck?

SPEAKER_02 35:59

So these this guy's clearly got a r a robotic arm. This one? Yeah. No, here. The big guy has got a robotic arm, he's folded up like that.

SPEAKER_00 36:08

Oh right, right, nothing bad's happening to him.

SPEAKER_02 36:12

No. So this one here, we've got the credits here. This is actually re this is written by Peter Milligan, who is one of the great British comic writers. I've read a lot of his I've got a lot of his stuff in my collection. He's he's been writing since the he definitely since the eighties and through. He's written, he's written over here, he's written in the UK, he's written in America, he's been really successful.

SPEAKER_00 36:34

Uh where where does he originate?

SPEAKER_02 36:37

Comes from the UK. Right. But he he had a very successful run at uh DC comics, writing quite a few of their titles.

SPEAKER_00 36:47

I hope he's back home given his uh skills here.

SPEAKER_02 36:51

I think he has tended to write more for British comics these days. Um but he still does do he still took a breath. He still does um write for predominantly for DC. He's writes he's written some titles for them in in recent years, but he's one of the one of the great uh writers that we've that we've got. He's he's great, he's a really good writer.

SPEAKER_00 37:15

Right, I really like the way the the um trousers uh show.

SPEAKER_02 37:21

Yeah, so it's nice attention to detail here of how fabric folds and holds and everything.

SPEAKER_00 37:26

Yes, it's the same with her am I leaning over too far? No, I don't think so. Next yeah, yeah, yeah, flick over. I think that's just one. Oh bluey again, but I'll be there.

SPEAKER_02 37:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:47

Can I go to the next one? Yeah, go ahead. There's anything really important to say.

SPEAKER_02 37:51

I think they're just talking to each other here. There's this guy's clearly is some kind of robotic android kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 37:59

I can't pick up me.

SPEAKER_02 38:01

Because we're almost at the back.

SPEAKER_00 38:04

What's this?

SPEAKER_02 38:05

So that it looks like a computer chip. It looks like what's on site, you know, a silicon chip.

SPEAKER_00 38:09

Yeah, it's completely there.

SPEAKER_02 38:11

This is um junk fall must be the character or the character, the the setting of this story. And they've got this. So that's a circuit board. So I think here you've actually got the rope the the this is some kind of robotic or computer uh running the society, you know, a bit like Hal in 2001.

SPEAKER_00 38:34

Oh yes, we don't want that, do you want to?

SPEAKER_02 38:36

So you've got yeah, they're called comrade chip. There's there's a lot of things, so it looks like there's echoes of uh of uh um communism and stuff like that in here.

SPEAKER_00 38:45

Again, was that what Hal um represented? I don't think so. It didn't strike me when I saw it, but that was a long time ago.

SPEAKER_02 38:57

Yeah, yeah, bearing in mind, I think 2001 came out in 1967 originally. Um so we've got this character here talking to the computer, and the computer is using the words like he's using the term like uh comrade and stuff like that, so it's clearly the the computer is like in charge.

SPEAKER_00 39:20

What why has he got dots on him?

SPEAKER_02 39:22

There's so he's seeing like a reflection of the light that's coming out from the computer, so these are like the circuit, you've seen the circuit boards reflected on his face.

SPEAKER_00 39:31

Right, and there's that screen more clearly.

SPEAKER_02 39:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:36

Right. Next page. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:40

Um and then this is the last page of the story, so it's come back to this big sort of Android kind of character. Um you've seen we've seen the computer screen still projected onto this character's face or whether whether he's like connected to the computer in some what some other way.

SPEAKER_00 39:57

Yes, I do like I mean the the light showing off the metal there. This is good. And it ends with a pretty face.

SPEAKER_02 40:08

Yeah. And then in on on the then on the back inside page we have what's called input, but this is this is the letters page, so where readers write in to 2000 and talking about what's going on in it. Uh there's the one thing that 2000 has always done, and I think this is a thing in in certainly in British comics, is that they would choose a letter that would be like the letter of the week or this week's winner, and here they're giving away graphic novels from 2000. So yeah, yeah, it and I mean I was lucky that gosh, probably 30 odd years ago, I sent a piece of artwork into 2000 AD, uh, a judge a humorous version of Judge Dredd, and it got printed in on the letters page, and I won it at the time you won a mug. It was called an LRD, a liquid refreshment dispenser. Oh, it's gone now, hasn't it? And they made a mistake and they sent me two, and unfortunately, I haven't got either of them now. One of them actually broke, and I had the other one for a long time. It was my work mug for ages, because I was really proud that I got this. Again, it was a big thing. You'd see a lot of people who've went on to went on to become part of 2000, their first published artwork would be on the letters page.

SPEAKER_00 41:27

Well, I'd keep putting them in. Yeah. Which shows what they're missing out for now. Right. I don't would are we get to read the letters or we can just leave them.

SPEAKER_02 41:38

I think we can leave them. They main like I said, they're mainly talking about um the stories that are going on and and um like talking about the graphic novels that are being published and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 41:50

Well somebody likes something, something spot on.

SPEAKER_02 41:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:53

Right. What's the next page? So now we're on to the back page. Oh right. Oh, we're back to Brink again.

SPEAKER_02 41:58

So we're back to Brink again. So this is book six. So they this is advertising, so Rebellion, who now publish 2000 AD. Um they advertise their collected editions, their graphic novels for so this is Brink, this is Brink Book Six, so the one that's just started must be book seven. Uh, these this title has been really popular.

SPEAKER_00 42:20

Um can people get the um cop you know, back issues of the comic, or do they publish it separately?

SPEAKER_02 42:27

They they put this is published separately as a collected edition as a graphic novel. You can go back. I mean, some comic shops still sell secondhand comics, so you could go back and buy individual issues.

SPEAKER_00 42:39

But that wouldn't be the company sending them.

SPEAKER_02 42:41

No, company do sell to a degree, you can go back a certain way, but if you wanted to dig back and get a excuse me, a big pile, you'd have to go to like a comic fair or a collector's fair, something like that. Wait, and quite often you'll find some of the ones from the from the 70s and 80s as well. But that's 2000 AD. Um, yeah, the first comic I really I collect I really started collecting. Um, it was my gateway to discovering loads of amazing artists and writers, lots of whom went on to work in America because America was it still is seen as like the biggest the biggest marketing market. It marketing market, marketing comics. Um so if you you you know if you work for an American publisher, you've you've you've made it.

SPEAKER_00 43:31

Um I think I'd give that about six out of ten. It's what it does brightly is really good. Then you've got too many packages that are just the same dreary kind of colour cover.

unknown 43:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:49

So the lack of colour in that um and the fact that they don't if you if I decided I wanted to go next week and buy it and half of it I wouldn't understand.

SPEAKER_02 44:02

No, this is it. I mean we you know I just grabbed the latest issue from a couple of weeks ago just so we can actually have a look at what 2000 AD is like now.

SPEAKER_00 44:11

You don't like a criticism of it because you love it.

SPEAKER_02 44:14

Well yeah I've still I've still got a real soft I don't read 2000 I haven't read 2000 AD for quite a few years now but as it was it was my gateway to to comics full stop um so I I do think of it very fondly a lot of my favourite stories and writers were the British writers that I met at conventions and stuff in the late 80s.

SPEAKER_00 44:36

Yes it's just that that particular issue is too much dreary and it may be a different one doesn't I mean when they do the artwork I just love.

SPEAKER_02 44:45

Yeah yeah this is the great thing there's always been lots of I mean it's like a lot of weekly comics there's there would be lots of different artists working in it and lots of the artists who work for 2000 went on to you know again moved into doing American comics and stuff like that. The I've lost my thread my lost my thread completely now.

SPEAKER_00 45:10

You don't know what you're talking about do you?

SPEAKER_02 45:12

No. No well I was just thinking but oh no I I know sorry I know what I was going to say so originally obviously 2000 is now in full colour as pretty much all comics are when it started it was on cheaper newsprint paper this is on that's nice this is on sort of nicer paper so again it's it's good quality printing. Yeah it's thin but not too thin. But when it started it was like on this newsprint sort of pulpy paper like those I have actually I've got prog 500 this is prog 200 2472.

SPEAKER_00 45:45

Alright why don't they say issue?

SPEAKER_02 45:48

Because prog was more something more futuristic like a computer programme and it's just something that stuck you know when uh when I used to go out on a Saturday morning to pick up 2000 AD and my stepdad would always say oh have you got the prognumade have you got the prog because that's that's what we called it a lot of um interest in detail taking care with the detail but yeah when it originally started it it literally it had full colour on the front and back cover and it had full colour on the centre pages of it but it the rest of it was printed in black and white.

SPEAKER_00 46:25

I've just thought of something can I or just look all the way through it yeah just toward turn in the pages for me because it'll take you half the time right keep going yes keep going and keep going keep going and don't stop yet keep going keep going keep going right the thing I notice about that is is that I could read that because it is logical there's no none of those great big people going all the way across it and bits in between and that it's nice and logical.

SPEAKER_02 47:13

Oh I suppose that's sort of futuristic isn't it I suppose so yeah I'm futuristic evidently but I I can't be doing with things all over the place um it's more logical to you the way it's the way it's put out for everybody yeah yes I'm s I'm extreme left brain yeah you're extreme right I'm extreme right yeah so I work visually you work I use my brain yeah yes yes I quite like that and I think a different issue well they wouldn't all be in the dark would they no no absolutely um as I say it's it's it's a comic that I've I've read for a very very long time um getting on for f actually over 40 years I've been read I on and off I've been reading it. I don't collect it now but I'm still I'm still pleased to see that it's there and it's it's a it's still successful still in a difficult comics market in the in the UK especially the fact that it's nearly 50 years old I just think is absolutely brilliant.

SPEAKER_00 48:21

Don't you mean you've been reading it for 20 years and you started when you were five no I'm quite happy to talk about my age it's not a problem so yeah I've been yeah on and off I've been I've been aware of and reading 2000 AD.

SPEAKER_02 48:35

I've still got a lot of the collected editions of the early material um because they're just absolutely brilliant and there are a lot of my the artists and writers that I got I looked up to first and that I've been lucky enough to meet as well I've met a lot of the people that could that worked on 2000 AD in the 80s. You haven't been to one of those comic things weren't you I've not been to a comic convention for a very long time and I'd love to start going to more I've only been to one there's two big ones in the UK there's the Lakes Festival and I think Thought Bubble the Lakes is obviously held in the lake districts and it is the bit it's probably the biggest UK one now. There are other smaller conventions but they're more like general pop culture so TV and film. Yeah yeah it was quite a small one and I was a fish out of water there. But the Thought Bubble and the and the lakes are the two big British ones and they have you can guarantee that most of the bigger British names in comics will be at these conventions. They usually have some guests over from America as well. But yeah there you go that's 2000 AD Well yes thank you you're very welcome bit of a history lesson for for Elizabeth here me because obviously I it's been a part of my life for almost as long as I can remember so I kind of know the history of it quite well.

SPEAKER_00 49:53

I didn't know it existed before you mentioned it.

SPEAKER_02 49:56

But it's it's great I and as as I said j just a few minutes ago it's great that it's coming up to its 50th anniversary now so it just proves that there's still a market out there for this kind of storytelling.

SPEAKER_00 50:07

Well I think we ought to what look at one of the earlier ones and compare and contrast as they say yeah we I'll dig out one of the earlier issues and we'll have a look and see what you think.

SPEAKER_02 50:17

Yeah? Right.

SPEAKER_00 50:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 50:19

Bye bye