EPISODE 11: EVERYTHING SUCKS

Welcome back to MORGAN TALKS COMICS... A bit later than usual, due to a few technical issues.

This week, we're looking at a great indie comic, EVERYTHING SUCKS, by MICHAEL SWEATER - published by SILVER SPROCKET. It's a funny look at life from the slacker side of things, and what can happen if there are too many cats around!

We also have a really good conversation about comics in general, and how they can be used as resources in improving literacy. We talk a lot about 'slice of life' comics, and how the indie comics scene tells stories at a much slower pace.

As ever, please get in touch if you want to comment on the show or suggest comics for us to look at - we'd love to hear from you!

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome to Morgan Talks Comics, a podcast that's a deep dive into comics for the past, present and future. We've got a bit of an apology this week because due to technical difficulties, we've not been able to upload the episode until Thursday. So we're going live a day later than usual. So but I hope you still enjoy the episode and let us know what you think after you've had a listen to it. Thank you. Okay, welcome to Morgan Talks Comics. This week we're looking at uh an issue of Everything Sucks, a really great indie comic by Michael Sweeter that came out in 2023. I've got most of this set, and there's also a really cool collected book published again. We mentioned them in an earlier episode with Caroline Cash, published again by Silver Sprockett, a really great queer uh publisher based in San Francisco, who just makes some really great and very funny uh comics. I really like Michael Sweater's stuff, it's quite in a short space, he's become quite a big influence on my storytelling. So I really like the way he draws and tells stories. Um and it's great that he works in quite a cartoony style, as you can see, using anthropomorphic animals, and this is what we would call uh a small press indie comic, because it's not published by you know one of the big two, Marvel or DC. So um Michael's really drawn to a lot of stuff. Joining me this week to have a look, and I'm gonna be interested to hear her opinion of this one, Eliza Mariah, Chamberlynn. Um because it's a little bit different.

SPEAKER_00 1:34

Well, my first first uh um impression is that he's really bright and colourful. I like that.

SPEAKER_02 1:42

Yeah, he works really well with really good, sort of bold primary colours, which is again is is something I do in my in my comics work. Um yeah, I just love really like the way that it makes everything stand off the page. There's nice little bits here, but if you can possibly see it, if you're watching this on the on the video, um that there's sort of nice, kind of like prismatic sort of foils put onto the cover to make elements stand out. Silver Sprocket always seems to go Silver Sprockets seem to always go above and beyond with the way their their comics are actually put together. And here comes Breeze the dog. Oh no, she's just settling down, good girl.

SPEAKER_00 2:20

Yeah, she's got more of a light. When the light goes on, that's pretty. I didn't notice that at the first thing.

SPEAKER_02 2:24

So, yeah, this is something that Silver Sprocket always do with their stuff, they really go like above and beyond with like um the finished product.

SPEAKER_00 2:33

Do you think they like me saying it's pretty?

SPEAKER_02 2:35

I'm sure they would. Oh good.

SPEAKER_00 2:37

Yeah, I'm sure they would. I I shouldn't say say funky or something like that. Right. But anyway, whatever it is, I like it.

SPEAKER_02 2:42

Yep, cool. Um similarities here to uh another uh independent comic, Meg Moganell by Simu Hanselman, which is a real quite sometimes quite disturbing slacker kind of comic.

SPEAKER_00 2:58

What do you mean, slacker?

SPEAKER_02 2:59

So a slacker, a slacker, yeah, because these characters are all in here are what we would call slackers. They're kind of they're generally people that are unemployed or work in like low-income jobs, um, tend to smoke a lot of drugs uh and drink and stuff like that, and they they spend more of their time like gaming and sort of just hanging out rather than like doing anything, anything productive or critical. It can be, but because it's written in quite a light-hearted manner, it sort of it makes it funny. Meg Mogan Owl is much kind of if you like darker in tone because it's it's a lot more dives into like the darker side of human nature, even though it's told in a sort of a storybook style. Um but yeah, this kind of thing started, I guess, kind of in the 60s. We're talking about people like cartoonists like Robert Crumb or Gilbert Shelton, who very much wrote about that sort of side of society, people that were taking drugs and stuff like that. If you can hear any noises in the background, Bruise is helping herself to our leftovers. Which she shouldn't do, but she shouldn't be doing it. We haven't noticed so yeah, the underground comic scene really kind of exploded in the 60s. There's always been there's always been like with any media, there's always like an alternative scene.

SPEAKER_00 4:23

Did you just mention somebody, Robert Crumb?

SPEAKER_02 4:25

Robert Crumb, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:26

Wasn't he big or special in some respects?

SPEAKER_02 4:30

Yeah, so Robert Crumb is potentially most well known for an animated film, a character who called he created called Fritz the Cat. Fritz the Cat.

SPEAKER_00 4:39

Oh yes, I haven't actually seen anything of Fritz. Yeah, well Fritz the Cat was a too innocent for that sort of thing.

SPEAKER_02 4:48

I'm I'm I'm I'm turning the turning Eliza Mariah to the dark side here. But Fritz the Cat was, yeah, was was actually turned into an animated film in the early 70s, and it's very much sex, drugs, and rock and roll. Uh it was very much counterculture, you know.

SPEAKER_00 5:03

Yeah, it wasn't old enough to have anything to do with that.

SPEAKER_02 5:06

Yeah, it really exploded sort of like towards the end of the 60s and the 70s, in the early 70s.

SPEAKER_00 5:11

Yes. Alright, so that's how he came into it.

SPEAKER_02 5:15

Yeah, yeah. So kind of Robert Crumb's kind of acknowledged as the godfather of like alternative comics.

SPEAKER_00 5:21

Now I've forgotten what you said about him in relation to the comics, sorry.

SPEAKER_02 5:25

Well, because because everything sucks is small press, so it's an independent, it's it's an independent publisher, it's more about this sort of the seedier side of life. So these characters are all what we would call slackers that may not have jobs, smoke, drink, and kind of in a way want to get away with an easy the easiest life possible.

SPEAKER_00 5:46

Right, if they started in the 70s, they won't be here now, will they? Well, absolutely. Kind of a fatty juice.

SPEAKER_02 5:52

So there's kind of a bit of a background to give you a flavour of of how the story is going to unfold. Um what are you looking at?

SPEAKER_00 6:01

I'm just looking at it at seven dollars. Did you import this?

SPEAKER_02 6:05

No, so um, so this came in, it's an American uh Silver Sprocket, American publishers based in San Francisco. Uh this came into my local comic shop.

SPEAKER_00 6:15

Oh, I see.

SPEAKER_02 6:16

So we've got uh at the comic shop we have um connections with publishers, so we can get certain certain publishers in. There's certain publishers that we really we really like at the store, um, so we try and get as much of their stuff in as possible. Silver Sprocket is one we uh a lot of us at the store really like, so we've tried to get as much of their stuff in as possible. We like what they're doing.

SPEAKER_00 6:40

Right. I've got to open it, I've always open it, open it. Let's dive in. Oh, that's a bit disappointing.

SPEAKER_02 6:49

Well, the way it's the way it's laid out is really nicely done with a heavier stock card cover. That's it. So it's so it's really nicely done, and it allows the colo the colours to really bounce through. So we've got like a letter column type thing here from from the creator Michael Sweater.

SPEAKER_00 7:05

Um, I'm not having this.

SPEAKER_02 7:07

No, see Eliza Mariah has has has disagreed with it already. So the the title of this one is All Cats Go to Hell. As you as you read through the story, you'll find out why the characters think that.

SPEAKER_00 7:20

Yes. Well, we had a cat who left this world, and I shall hope she's on the cloud.

SPEAKER_02 7:26

I'm sure, I'm sure Lady Arabella cat is sitting on a cloud somewhere.

SPEAKER_00 7:29

Yeah, chasing imaginary mice.

SPEAKER_02 7:34

So opening up onto the first spread. So this is shows off Michael's style really nicely. Um there's a there's a character, there's a the opening panel is a large, over half the page panel of uh cat character drawn in an anime style, manga anime style, so a Japanese style.

SPEAKER_00 7:56

She's more person with a bit of cat rather than a cat with a bit of person. Are these supposed to be cats too?

SPEAKER_02 8:03

So this character I think is supposed to be a cat because they've got like they've got like sticky up ears and stuff. That this character is drawing the cat boy.

SPEAKER_00 8:13

I think that she's um I think she's a bear.

SPEAKER_02 8:18

You think she's a bear?

SPEAKER_00 8:19

Well they're not cowsiers, are they? I suppose not.

SPEAKER_02 8:22

We should check in with Michael and see what they are. This character is very clearly a bird of some description, looks could almost be a budgie. So the other character Why is that clearly a bird?

SPEAKER_00 8:32

It doesn't look like a big thing.

SPEAKER_02 8:33

It's got a beak. It has a beak. And feathers sticking up out of his out of his woolly hat. So this they're in there they're in there.

SPEAKER_00 8:41

Where's the feathers?

SPEAKER_02 8:42

Feathers are sticking up here under his under his woolly hat.

SPEAKER_00 8:45

I don't know the language yet, do I?

SPEAKER_02 8:47

And the because of these got like these bare, scaly kind of legs like birds have.

SPEAKER_00 8:52

Bit more like a bird there, but that's stretching it, so he's interesting. What's his eyes? I've just realized.

SPEAKER_02 8:59

So she's got two little dots for her eyes.

SPEAKER_00 9:01

So what's this bit here?

SPEAKER_02 9:03

That's his eye, that's like a big eyebrow. So it's like I say, it's drawn in a very cartoony style. It's quite simplistic in the way it's drawn.

SPEAKER_00 9:12

See the eyebrow straight across in that one.

SPEAKER_02 9:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:15

And this one is all curved, so she's sent been to the salon in the meantime, isn't she?

SPEAKER_02 9:21

I think it's to to sort of differentiate between different emotions or expressions.

SPEAKER_00 9:26

Oh, all right. If you say so, dear.

SPEAKER_02 9:29

Yeah. So the characters are here in a sort of a slightly trashy looking house or apartment, and um we've got the the bear cat cat or bear character drawing a drawing the cat boy cartoon, and then there's a bit of backwards and forwards between them.

SPEAKER_00 9:47

What's these blobs round?

SPEAKER_02 9:50

So the blobs are cigarette smoke.

SPEAKER_00 9:52

Oh right.

SPEAKER_02 9:53

So that's my the cigarette is hanging out of their mouth while they're talking. In the opening panel, there's an ashtray with a lot of cigarette butts in it.

SPEAKER_00 10:02

I didn't notice that great big thing. Look, I thought she had a tongue out.

SPEAKER_02 10:06

No.

SPEAKER_00 10:07

I get it now. Right. The moral of the story is I should look properly. I really didn't notice that ashtray. It's big enough, right at the front of the whole thing, isn't it? Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 10:22

So coming in front of the story, we've got some dialogue between the two characters. One the the the the bird character is being is basically saying that you're not drawing properly and stuff.

SPEAKER_00 10:35

Right.

SPEAKER_02 10:36

And um the other character is like, no, you just don't understand art. So they're talking about. So is that you and me? It kind of would be, but maybe without as much potty language, because this is this is an adult comic, so it uses the F-word quite a lot.

SPEAKER_00 10:51

Oh, it's humans it that uh all adults behave like that.

SPEAKER_02 10:56

What's this thing? So down at the so back onto down to the bottom of the following page, they're going out onto the like the porch of the house that they live in, yes, and there's a load of cats of different shapes and sizes hanging around on the But isn't this supposed to be at home? Well, see, this is the weird thing, they've got animal characters, yeah. So what I call anthropomorphic, which is turning um, you know animals to humans. Animals to humans, but they've actually but they in this world that my that Michael's created, they they actually have pets as well. So they have cats in. Right.

SPEAKER_00 11:32

Oh mind, weird.

SPEAKER_02 11:35

So the characters coming out here with me going, says so. Did you get more cats and you've got a cat going mo? Right.

SPEAKER_00 11:43

Oh my goodness, have they had a bar name?

SPEAKER_02 11:46

So we've gone back inside, and the bird character is is chilling out on the sofa, and they're their cat, their pet cat who looks a little bit like Garfield. You know the cartoon cat?

SPEAKER_00 12:01

Yeah, not I I I'm aware of it and I know what it looks like, but I thought it was ginger.

SPEAKER_02 12:07

This is ginger.

SPEAKER_00 12:08

Oh that one, I'm talking about this thing.

SPEAKER_02 12:10

No, so there's a one of the cats from outside is is staring in the window and meowing like crazy, and the other, their cat is actually hissing, it's hissing at it because it's seen it.

SPEAKER_00 12:19

See, I thought this had a black eye, but it's just a patch for the colour. It's just it's just a marking.

SPEAKER_02 12:24

Yeah, it's it's down to the way that Michael draws.

SPEAKER_00 12:28

I quite like this picture.

SPEAKER_02 12:30

So, bottom at bottom of the following page, we've got like another big, like half half page panel. Um, and one of the the cat is stretching up trying to get inside the inside the house, but the uh the bird characters are having none of it. He's called Noah. So Noah's having none of it.

SPEAKER_01 12:49

Right.

SPEAKER_02 12:52

Now we flip back inside. Noah's making himself some food. I think it's like a yeah, it's a grilled cheese sandwich that he's making on making on the stove. And the cat's the cat is actually called Gar.

SPEAKER_00 13:04

Oh that's true. That is so naughty.

SPEAKER_02 13:08

It's clear clearly a reference to Garfield.

SPEAKER_00 13:12

Or or um Birds of a Feather.

SPEAKER_02 13:15

Or Birds of a Feather, yeah. Yeah. So he's talking to the cat, and then this other cat is is we on the following page we get the other cat still at the window trying to get in.

SPEAKER_00 13:27

What's this?

SPEAKER_02 13:28

So this is Noah kneeling down looking looking through the window.

SPEAKER_00 13:31

Has he got his he's got his knickers on?

SPEAKER_02 13:33

He's got his boxer shorts on, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:36

Oh right.

SPEAKER_02 13:38

I think Eliza Moray's feeling a little bit confused by this one.

SPEAKER_00 13:41

I am, but never mind, moving on.

SPEAKER_02 13:43

So they then we go on to the next page, and Noah's run outside with a broom trying to chase off all these cats that are appearing on their porch. Right. Because they're obviously they're obviously trying to get he's hitting one of the cats.

SPEAKER_00 13:57

Oh, that's not nice, is it?

SPEAKER_02 13:58

Well, he's just trying to scare them off.

SPEAKER_00 14:01

Hmm. Usually enough to hiss at them, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 14:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:06

Or send the dog out, that always works.

SPEAKER_02 14:09

But then turns around and all the cats have suddenly got inside the house. Oh, yeah. Led led by, I think, led by Garth, and they've actually shot Noah out of the house.

SPEAKER_00 14:21

Oh, I must tell you a story. Many years ago, I went out to the back of my house I lived in then, and we had great double doors, and as a security measure, there was this button that pushed in at the bottom of the door, so even if you had to get he couldn't get back in. And my cat curled at sleep then, pushed it in, and I was locked out for ages. Oh dear. So it can happen.

SPEAKER_02 14:46

It can happen. So yeah, the door, there's a very big like um sound effect here that just goes shut with an exclamation mark, and no one goes, Well shit. And then the other cat sitting behind it going, Mau. Language too. So we're flipping through to another scene here, probably at another house where the other character who is doing the drawing has come over because earlier in the fit earlier in the uh story, they were talk her and Noah were talking about uh cinema, and they were they were talking about art cinema and stuff like that. So saying that Noah doesn't understand art. So they've gone to another character to borrow some films, and they're saying, What if am I really careful and promise not to break them? And stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 15:32

Sorry, break what?

SPEAKER_02 15:34

Break break is gonna she wants to borrow some DVDs from this guy. So he's gonna be able to do it. Oh breaking the DVDs.

SPEAKER_00 15:40

That's not easy.

SPEAKER_02 15:41

So he's referring he's referring to the fact that these are from Criterion who who release a lot of art and uh independent cinema and are saying they're expensive.

SPEAKER_00 15:50

So a very quick ad in the middle of this. Yeah, yeah. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 15:54

Well, yeah, Crite yeah, Criterion as a bit of a side note, are are known for uh really having the release rights on you know physical release rights on a lot of um independent and and foreign film. Um I know for a fact that they do all the Godzilla films, they've got the the licence for Godzilla.

SPEAKER_00 16:14

Oh right, no wonder you love them.

SPEAKER_02 16:16

I do, I think they're brilliant. They have and and quite often they'll have um they'll get actors and and move and filmmakers will go into they have like this almost like little closet full to the brim with you know with films on DVD or Blu-ray, and they'll go in and they'll do their pick or something and say why they've chosen the films. Some of them might be classic French cinema, some of them might be more contemporary stuff.

SPEAKER_00 16:41

Is Fritz the Cat in there?

SPEAKER_02 16:43

Uh I don't know who publishes Fritz the Cat, to be honest.

SPEAKER_00 16:47

Right. So, in other words, they get the film and do what we're doing with the film.

SPEAKER_02 16:52

Yeah. Right. Yeah. Get that. Yeah. Um it's like and it becomes apparent from the conversation that these two characters, the there's a character who's like a frog. He's like a frog sitting on a studio chair.

SPEAKER_00 17:06

He's got his knickers on.

SPEAKER_02 17:08

Yeah, there's got a weird thing about because like one of the cat the the cat bear character is sort of like fully dressed. The cat the the frog character just has a backwards cap on and and like sort of a bright colourful shirt.

SPEAKER_00 17:21

Yeah, he's like he's like action man anyway, isn't it? So it doesn't really matter.

SPEAKER_02 17:25

He's got no bits. No, yeah. Um he's saying you broke up with me, remember. And um he said, You already broke a thing that is deeply important to me, my heart.

SPEAKER_00 17:35

Oh, that is sad.

SPEAKER_02 17:37

And she's like, Oh, we're having this entire conversation again. All she wants to do is just borrow some films.

SPEAKER_00 17:42

Well, he's a bit much if she's broken his heart. I think it's within his right to send her packing.

SPEAKER_02 17:51

Yeah. And then and then we get down to the end, and there says, I want to borrow your French new wave DVDs. So this this would be like films from the like the late 50s and then into the 60s.

SPEAKER_00 18:03

Right, it'll be worth something, I suppose.

SPEAKER_02 18:06

So we cut back to Noah's house where he's locked out, he's sitting on the doorstep, and all these the cats are like hissing and everything. The cats have actually scared him off his own porch.

SPEAKER_00 18:17

Oh I've just realised something. Go on. Uppercase.

SPEAKER_02 18:23

Uppercase. Yes. Linda's bugbear that comics use uppercase for all the speech.

SPEAKER_00 18:29

And they really should not, because it I'm just gonna say it again, poor readers find that more difficult to read than upper and uppercase. Right, that's all I'm gonna say about that.

SPEAKER_02 18:40

In in defence here, even though it's uh even though it's in uppercase, and I use upper and lower in a lot of my stuff, they actually are nice, quite nice, clear bubbles, speech bubbles, with with clear writing, so it is quite legible.

SPEAKER_00 18:53

So they've tried but failed because they haven't done it in upper and down case. It's just it's very logical. I like the way it's it, you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:01

It's really interesting again as a little side side note here. I've been looking at a lot of much older cartoons over the last couple of days. With it, we've we've just come out come coming out from Easter. It was Easter Sunday, a couple of days before this, and there was a lot of um on on some pages I followed, they were sharing a lot of Easter themed cartoons that had a lot of eggs and stuff. So I'm looking at cartoons that are nearly a hundred years old. Oh, yeah, which we should talk about those another time. We should do, we should look at some really some much earlier cartoons. Yes, but the interesting thing so I was looking at them, they're beautifully drawn, um, in quite a detailed black and white style. But interestingly, I thought maybe speech would have speech bubbles would have different they were still using capital letters.

SPEAKER_00 19:50

That's because they didn't know any different, but these people should.

SPEAKER_02 19:53

In older cartoons, especially in older British cartoons, what would happen is you would have a traditional panel with a speech bubble, characters interacting, but you quite often would have text underneath it telling the store.

SPEAKER_00 20:07

Yes, yeah. But some i it was the the case, I'm going back a bit, but when I was a little girl, that people thought it was easier to read capital letters.

SPEAKER_01 20:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:18

And probably if you are a good reader, well, it makes no difference really if you're a good reader, I realise. Yeah, but it isn't true, it needs to be upper and lower case.

SPEAKER_02 20:28

So moving on. Moving on, anyway. So Noah gets basically booted off his own porch by the cats. What are these? He's gone, he's gone, he's gone across on he's gone across into some to the fence by somebody else's garden, and he's looking into the garden, and there's loads more cats. There's like half a dozen cats all sitting out of the grass, and he's where are all of these cats coming from?

SPEAKER_00 20:50

They must be coming from Rome where there's there's a building, a ruins of a building where there are so many cats you just would not believe.

SPEAKER_02 21:00

It was amazing, wasn't it? Yeah. Anyways, um so on the on and then we flip over to the next page, and we s we get see a sort of a change of angle here, and coming out of the back of the house that's going on to this garden that Noah's looking at is an old woman with a bag of cat food.

SPEAKER_01 21:20

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 21:20

And clearly what she's doing is she's feeding all these cats. Noah's like, you can't do that. If you feed straight cats, they'll come round and which is exactly what happens in Moan.

SPEAKER_00 21:30

Somebody goes and feeds these cats and they appear out of nowhere.

SPEAKER_02 21:34

So she's yeah, so the this old woman who I think is supposed to be a mouse looking at her little pointy nose and and a sort of a scaly tail, is supposed to be a mouse, which is ironic, a mouse feeding cats.

SPEAKER_00 21:46

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 21:49

So they're having a conversation about why she's um why she's feeding the feeding these cats. Noah's like at the start of it, he's saying, you know, you shouldn't be doing that small. We've got an infestation of cats.

SPEAKER_00 22:02

Where are her ears?

SPEAKER_02 22:04

Her ears are hidden under uh under her hair. She's got like big bunches of hair. She's got like grey hair to indicate that she's an older character.

SPEAKER_00 22:11

I was wondering, looking at the tail, whether she's supposed to be a worm.

SPEAKER_02 22:15

No.

SPEAKER_00 22:15

Alright. What do I know? As much as Breeze the Dark.

SPEAKER_02 22:24

And then we're changing scene completely and we're going into what looks like some sewers. So we've got a character cut, we've got a character in silhouette coming through, walking through this really dirty-looking water. We've got some rats in the background, Elizabeth, but Liz Mariah's favourite creatures.

SPEAKER_00 22:40

Oh dear, I do have a bit of a problem with rats.

SPEAKER_02 22:43

And then we open up and we see this big, this big character. I think he's supposed to be like a possum or something.

SPEAKER_00 22:48

I don't know what a possum looks like. You couldn't tell me he looks like that. But what's this? This looks like a rat tail. You sure he's not supposed to be. So he has got like a rat tail. Or do possums have rat tails? I don't know. I don't know. I'm not we need to double check that.

SPEAKER_02 23:02

Anyway, he's he's coming up and then he's realised that he might have got some seal water in his mouth. So this is introducing another character to the story.

SPEAKER_00 23:10

Is it just one story or away from the story?

SPEAKER_02 23:13

Yeah, so it's each issue is a separate story. It's got the same set of characters. Um so it's got Noah and the other cat the other animal characters, but they're they it's it's telling different sort of chapters of what's going on.

SPEAKER_00 23:25

If anybody's wondering what the black bit in the corner is, Breeze is sitting very close.

SPEAKER_02 23:31

She's being good, she's she's she's chilling at the moment. Um so we then we see we see the other character walking home, and they've managed to borrow one of the DVDs, and as they come, they're walking along, and then they come past like a sewer entrance, like a manhole kind of thing. And this character, the character that we've seen on the previous pages, the kind of the rat like character comes up because he's called Brad. And he's been hiding out under the under the on in the drains in the sewers.

SPEAKER_00 24:02

Like rats do, like rats do, and he's been picking stuff up that people have been dropping down the drains, which is something people used to do in Victorian times, didn't they? Um get all the all lots of things I used to find. Probably still do.

SPEAKER_02 24:19

Yeah. And uh so that they're all like, oh wow, you found some money, that's really cool. And he says, even better, and he's they've found a uh he says a crawdad, which are uh crayfish. Oh you won't want to meet it, wouldn't you? No, you wouldn't.

SPEAKER_00 24:33

It being in the drain.

SPEAKER_02 24:35

And then they're talking about borrowing a DVD.

SPEAKER_00 24:38

Um my goodness, I've always wanted to borrow these DVD boys.

SPEAKER_02 24:42

And it's a brad saying, What are we watching? And then they all walk, they walk back round down to um to where Noah is. Noah's left sitting on the on the side on on the on the on the clock. The cats cats are sent him packing, but he's suddenly but he realizes he's left the stove on. And they sort of go running back towards his house, and you can all you can see is loads of cats trying to get out the window, and the smoke coming out of the house.

SPEAKER_00 25:11

Oh right, yes.

SPEAKER_02 25:13

And then Noah's going, shit, the cats are stuck in there, and and um he takes they've got a a fake snowman on their porch. Don't ask me why, that's clearly something they've found or whatever, and they've just left it on their front porch. Like dough. So he's gonna Noah says he's gonna save the cats, and he uses the the big snowman to smash the window and get in.

SPEAKER_00 25:35

That's a very odd snowman.

SPEAKER_02 25:36

Yeah, and he's going in and he's saying, Let's so let's save the important stuff. And he's gonna so he grabs Garth, the cat, grabs Kala, that's the other character, Calla's art, and um and he goes, I do I really not own anything of value, and he can then you've got the bottom panel of of Noah coming running out of the house with all the cats following him and a big sort of like lots of plumes of smoke coming out, and then it's like trying to clear space, and there's word that Garth the cat has has um been overcome by the smoke, so you see him giving him mouth-to-mouth resuscitation with Garth. People do, people do, but he's and he he saves he saves Garth the cat, and he apologises for talking talking rubbish on him, and he's gone, and he's saying cats are beautiful and important. I get it now, and then all the cats suddenly just turn on him and pile up pile on to like get him. He said, Never mind, I hate cats. There's a big panel of Noah being jumped on by about half a dozen cats. Oh, that's not the end. No, it's not the end. So we're now moving well, everyone's gone back in back into the house, and um they're saying, Do you want to do anything about the window? Because he's broken the window to get all the cats out, and he goes, I don't care. And so they're gonna sit and um watch this French movie. They're all all the characters are there going, they're sitting there, and and then so Noah says, What is this amazing movie? Does it have guns in it? And then Cala turns around and says, Wait, I took the wrong movie. This movie is Talagda Knights, which is a com it's an American comedy film, and Brad says, I love that movie, and then one of the other cats at the end says, Meu! And then there's a big end to show the end of the story. Right. So it's kind of a kind of a goofy Is it an introduction?

SPEAKER_00 27:31

Is that introducing them all?

SPEAKER_02 27:33

No, I don't I'm not, I don't think um the cats one is the first one. It was hard. It this was the first one that I actually got. There are six six of the Everything Sox comics altogether, and there's a big, really nice, big um paperback collection of all of them. So I've got about four as individual issues, but I've not got not got all of them. But because they the stories aren't linked, they're all it's the same characters, but it's different parts of life.

SPEAKER_00 28:05

Right. What's this? It's a bit of an advertisement.

SPEAKER_02 28:07

And then once the main story's finished, um what Michael has done is he's he's he's taken the opportunity to reprint or publish some of his little more like traditional four-panel strips featuring the featuring all the other characters. So obviously he's had these characters for a while and he's been doodling. He's been doodling, he'd been making up little short strips. These are slightly earlier than the actual main story we've we've just just gone through. So these are him sort of like finding that finding out how you know how the characters are, how they act, and how they interact with each other and that sort of thing. So we've got Drake who's the bird character here, and Brad's come over and they're they're talking about there's lots of different things, the little little four-panel strips, and it they're just like then they're not so appealing to look at as the rest of the comic. Yeah, the comic is colours. Yeah, the colours are a little bit more muted here. Um it's still really nicely printed because it's on great quality paper.

SPEAKER_00 29:09

Yes, I like the look of that. It's on really nice thick stock, and it's not shiny, it's just kind of satin, I suppose.

SPEAKER_02 29:16

Yeah, I'd say it's got a satin finish to it, so you don't get lots of glare back from any lights or anything like that. No. So there's a cut there's so there's two pages of these little four p four panel strips. And then they're talking about this, then there's an advert for the next issue where they're going next time, everything sucks, and there's you've got you've got the two characters talking to each other.

SPEAKER_00 29:40

Is that the beginning of the story? Or in the middle of the store?

SPEAKER_02 29:43

Yeah, it's called it's called Real Gamer Hour. So I think this one, this one, which I have got, is all about playing video games, which is another slacker favourite thing to do.

SPEAKER_00 29:52

Right, and what's this per payment business?

SPEAKER_02 29:56

So here there's a really lovely little add-on. There's um a page of stickers.

SPEAKER_00 30:01

Oh right, can you pick them off?

SPEAKER_02 30:02

So you can actually peel them off.

SPEAKER_00 30:04

I won't be allowed to, will I?

SPEAKER_02 30:06

No. Because I've I've kept it all together, but yeah, Silver Sprockett did this especially a lot with a lot of their earlier stuff. They'd have a sheet of stickers by the artist in there as well. And then there's a and then the very the the inside back cover is uh showing off some of Silver Sprocket's other titles, some of which I have got. I've got uh there's one here, Hellphone, which is by Benji Nate, who I believe is the partner of Michael Sweater. So they're both cartoonists.

SPEAKER_01 30:38

About it, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:40

Um that's really funny. It's it's in in slight, even though it's in an indie style of artwork, it's more akin to reading a manga. So a Japanese kind of manga. We've not done manga yet, no. No, um, down at the bottom here, there's Puppy Knight, which is a really lovely graphic novel that Michael Sweater wrote, and it's be illustrated by Jose Cruz. Um, and it's a funny like fantasy story, so it's it's anthropomorphic animals again, but it's sort of like a Dungeons and Dragons kind of adventure.

SPEAKER_00 31:10

You do realise the biologists will get great cross with you with doing that. What? Um making the animals like humans because if it comes to children or or anybody really, if you're educating people, then they shouldn't believe that an animal is like a person. So that's a serious bit. But that doesn't mean that people can't understand that and still enjoy the story.

SPEAKER_02 31:40

Yeah, I mean, using animals as characters in comics goes back.

SPEAKER_00 31:44

Well it does.

SPEAKER_02 31:45

It goes back probably to the beginnings.

SPEAKER_00 31:47

But it doesn't matter, does it? Because capital letters go back to the beginning as well. Doesn't make it right. But yeah, I I I think I think it's fun, but I think it's worth remembering. Animals aren't, you know, animals are animals.

SPEAKER_02 32:02

It's especially it's especially popular within um with with more independent sort uh you know, sort of what we would call adult comics. It's mainly adult because they use they swear and probably smoke and drink, whereas the kind of comics that you'd you had you'd have kids reading would have like more wholesome characters.

SPEAKER_00 32:22

Yes. I have to rate this now, don't you?

SPEAKER_02 32:24

You have to, yes.

SPEAKER_00 32:25

Now this is difficult because it gets a lot of points for being generally clear and logical. So although I needed some things explained to me, if I was actually reading it and looking at it and thinking about it carefully all by myself, I might have got that. So we won't take marks off that. Right. So it's nice paper, it's good clear, so that brings it up a bit, but there are uppercase letters, too many of those, so that takes loses it points, and I have to say the swearing loses its point. This is a difficult one because real people, not everybody, um I know people like to think everybody, but real people don't always swear all the time, but there would be certain sections of the community are more likely to swear than others, and they might be the people they're portraying in there. What's your opinion of that?

SPEAKER_02 33:27

Yeah, I'd probably agree with that. Um, yes, because it's sort of it it uh it's portraying what I what you know what I refer to as a a slacker lifestyle, then yeah, they're likely to be more like potty mouths and stuff like that. We both Eliza Mariah and and myself try not to swear.

SPEAKER_00 33:47

Um I think it's alright if you drop a tin of peaches on your toe, yeah, one word might be allowed. Yeah, but just in general conversation, I'm not keen. Yeah, and I know it it as years go on it becomes more and more common, but this is just my opinion, in my opinion, it makes it harder to understand what somebody's saying because it just gets in the way, yeah. So uh but see does it or because it doesn't suit me to have the swearing, I would take a point off. But if it's all part of the book and that's the the way it's actually you know properly portrayed, I'd add a point, you know, I'd I'd put that point back again. But this is my own personal opinion, isn't it? Yeah. So it's going to lose. I'm sorry, it's losing that point because they can't keep I'll have to wash their mouths out with soap. Teach them some proper language. Um so I think that one gets six, but it could have got eight if it had tried hard enough.

SPEAKER_02 35:04

Okay. So so check uh a couple of points to consider is potty mouth language and also use uh using upper and lower case in the speech button.

SPEAKER_00 35:15

No, not using upper and lower case.

SPEAKER_02 35:17

No, no, so if it to give to gain a couple of points back.

SPEAKER_00 35:20

Oh I see, yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 35:22

So like cleaning up their language and then yeah, using upper and lower case in the balloons.

SPEAKER_00 35:26

And it's really worth remembering, and remembering that it doesn't matter if this is a small press or a large press, they want to sell things. If you make something, you want to make money out of them. People say otherwise, but I don't believe it. They have to make money because we all have to pay the mortgage. So I think that's really important to do the upper and lower case because you would get more people reading it, you would get teachers using them in their literacy classes, tutors losing using them in their literacy classes, it would increase sales, and it's so simple. It's very simple.

SPEAKER_02 36:09

So I use it in typically in my hand-drawn ones, I do tend to work in capitals, but all of the ones that I do that are being being published elsewhere, um, I do use upper and lower case. I also because I obviously at some point I would like my stories to go into other languages and it would make it easier to translate into other languages.

SPEAKER_00 36:30

What up and lower?

SPEAKER_02 36:31

Yeah, upper and lower.

SPEAKER_00 36:32

Right. But why why when you do it handle it? What's the matter with doing up and lower? You are perfectly capable of doing it. Yeah, I don't know the different things.

SPEAKER_02 36:41

I think it's just one of those things, it's just because it's kind of it's kind of the norm within comics, you know, that it you do you know, when I write my notes to myself, I tend to write capital letters.

SPEAKER_00 36:52

Well, that's absolutely it.

SPEAKER_02 36:52

It's because I've I'd be I think with me that's because I learnt in art studios and when you were writing instructions on artwork that was going to print, quite often you'd use capital letters because they were supposedly more legible and and clear to write, rather than rather than trying to write somebody's read somebody's handwriting, which can sometimes be a problem. Actually, writing in capital letters makes it clearer and supposedly more you know clearer and easier to understand.

SPEAKER_00 37:23

Well, firstly, you don't know what the per how good a reader the person in the print is. True. Probably good, but you can't be guaranteed that. And also, um you don't have to join all your letters together just because you put up and go later.

SPEAKER_02 37:39

Well, no, because my my handwriting, I don't uh my handwriting is actually if I write in in in upper and lower cases is generally more like print, so it's I write each letter individually.

SPEAKER_00 37:50

That's what I'm saying, and that would be just fine, wouldn't it? But this other thing, just because people have always done something doesn't mean it's right.

SPEAKER_01 37:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:59

It's like um all all those people who used to put alcohol on babies' dummies for years and years and years when they weren't sleeping. No. So I really think that's an important point, and and it's it's a bit like making food that is just general food, um, putting animal things in it, so it knocks out the whole bit of the population that is vegetarian, and so you're knocking out a whole portion of people that may um be learning to read. And now, something particularly like that would be excellent to use, despite its language or even because of its language, in an adult literacy class, because it's like a child's comic, but it clearly isn't. Yeah. And that would make a wonderful resource for the right person.

SPEAKER_02 38:58

It's talking about an inverted commas normal life.

SPEAKER_00 39:01

Well, no, because it's talking in an adult way. Yeah. So somebody who was a an adult learner could use that as a resource and not feel they were being patronised and made to be like like a using a child thing. So that's a big chunk chunk of the m you know people could be marketed to. And again, as I said, makes money, that's what people want, make money. Yeah. I I th I know I know that's something an awful lot of people kind of pretend they're not doing, and sometimes I genuinely aren't, but everybody has to live.

SPEAKER_02 39:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:43

Yeah. True. So that's my verdict on that, but uh uh it's very clear, and even I could read it because it went across, it didn't have we haven't come across many of these comics where they've got a big splash of somebody right in the middle and then bits round it.

SPEAKER_02 40:01

Yeah, I'm sure we'll I mean I think because uh a lot of the artists I really like are are you know draw or lay out their pages in a similar way to I do. I tend to go for quite a clear, yes, clear, clean layout. And I mean I'll obviously my style has changed over the years, but where I've I've got to now is is to have a much clearer style of actual drawing and and layout on my pages as well.

SPEAKER_00 40:25

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 40:25

Uh I just think it's a bet it's an easier way to tell a story. You I've got nothing against you know, like fully paint. I love people like Bill Sienkovich who do put full pa full painted artwork. I absolutely love his artwork, he's one of my favourite artists. Um, but sometimes those kind though that style of art can up can be misleading and it can uh sometimes you got to mislead me. Yeah, you you kind you kind of lose the story, but it's not quite so clear.

SPEAKER_00 40:54

But I do like sometimes when I've seen the page like it, I like looking at it as it was. But mm wouldn't necessarily help me understand the story. Oh, the other thing about that, I've just realised that it's gone down to seven. What was it?

SPEAKER_02 41:11

No, you'd given it six, you've just given you it's just clawed a point back.

SPEAKER_00 41:15

Okay, well let's come go down to five because I just realised I remember I asked you if it was an introductory you know, story whether it was just there to talk about the people, and you said it wasn't. In which case I thought it was quite a an inspired story. Not a lot happening in the world.

SPEAKER_02 41:38

Well that's in Michael's defence here, um, this is a trend in comics, especially in the independent small press comics, where the stories are kind of more what I would call slice of life, so it's like an ordinary day, it's like a day in a life kind of thing. So the story, it's not like a superhero story where you have people swinging around and and battling each other and spaceships and stuff like that. This is more like sort of like normal life.

SPEAKER_00 42:07

Okay, in that case it could just be half as long. True because I was waiting for I was waiting for something to happen. Anyway, in Slice of Life, people do things, do you have to do that? Yeah, absolutely. But you might have had, you know, you got over um attacked by the cats. What's the next thing? You're gonna get your tetanus and maybe get really ill and then pull through at the end. That is a little bit more exciting, but it is what happens in real life.

SPEAKER_02 42:41

But again, again, I would say that um this kind of you can looking back at things like going back to people like Robert Crumb and Gilbert Shelton. You I mean Crumb tended to do more long form stories and so there would be more pages, but maybe with less happening, because he uses quite a lot of dialogue. Uh Gilbert Shelton, who did the the Furry Freak Brothers and Fat Freeze Cat, did more single-page strips. Um, but he did do longer stuff as well. I've seen I've seen you know some of the graphic novels that they've done. But so they do work in a in a sort of form, but again, you could there's kind of not a lot happens, it's just amusing because of you know there'll be a funny phrase at the end of it or something like that.

SPEAKER_00 43:29

But I'm I'm gonna bring out wheel out my usual argument, which is just because that's a lot of comics, why do you have to do it yourself? Why can't you just do something well I'd argue better, a little bit inspired more inspired?

SPEAKER_02 43:47

I don't know. See, I'd probably argue with that because I quite like I I do I do go for a lot of independent alternative comics, so I've you know I'm I'm aware of characters like the the the first. Very freak brothers from the the 60s and 70s and like Fritz the Cat and stuff like that. And it was more it was a different kind of storytelling. You would see more like sort of just time passing rather than rather than using it as an example, you um the superhero comics, which is wham bam, thank you, sort of sort of um you'd have more impact in the stories, you'd have them running from fight to blooming fighting, you'd have a lot of fighting and stuff like this. In in the alternative comics, there's much less reliance on that kind of thing. So it is telling more ordinary life where sometimes not a lot happens, and that that's what they're that's what the artists are telling. Um great going looking at um two of the great uh proponents of of indie comics now, the Hernandez brothers. I mean they've been in comics for over 40 years now, and a lot of their comics is it's more about conversation and characters actually just interacting with each other rather than you know slugging each other, fighting and that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 45:10

I don't like that either. Well, one thing I've I think I've realised here is because you and I are different. Now I read novels, and if nothing happens, that's I sometimes nothing does happen, but generally speaking, there's a story. Whereas you're reading a comic and you're enjoying the artwork and the characters and things, whereas I just glance at it and think, well, that's what's happening.

SPEAKER_02 45:41

Yeah, that's it.

SPEAKER_00 45:43

Because I'm not a comic person.

SPEAKER_02 45:45

You're not a you're not a visual reader, you're a you're a literal, uh literacy reader.

SPEAKER_00 45:51

Yeah, um extreme left bone onto it.

SPEAKER_02 45:54

Yeah, we've got two very different people, the way the way that we uh we look at stuff. Whereas Eliza Mariah can appreciate artwork and stuff like that. I know for a fact that she loves artwork like Dali and people like that. Oh, I like art very much. But visual storytelling is not how uh Eliza Mariah is wired. It is for me, that's what I've always done since I was tiny tiny. I can remember reading comics of you know when I was really little and and be and obviously been dragged into it.

SPEAKER_00 46:24

I've just thought, I have seen, I've not looked at, but I've just seen on shelves and things, that there are comic versions of famous novels. Yes, isn't there? There are. So that would be the sort of thing if I was gonna read a comic, which I'm sorry about it, but I won't, except I'm with you and you showed me things. But um that would be more up my street, wouldn't it?

SPEAKER_02 46:52

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I mean they've done Shakespeare as graphic novels.

SPEAKER_00 46:57

Have they really?

SPEAKER_02 46:58

They have, they've done Shakespeare as graphic novels. I don't think they've done all of his plays, but they've done a lot of the big they've done like Midsummer Night's Dream and Well I would like to see that. Yeah. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 47:08

I've seen Doctor Who, but and um oh dear, what's that American programme where they all the red shirts die? Oh, Star Trek. Yes, I've seen Star Trek ones.

SPEAKER_02 47:20

Yeah. But yeah, no, they've done they've done graphic novels of Shakespeare and and and fame famous novels like Pride and Prejudice and stuff like that. So yeah. Which you which might be more appealing to you than so I love stuff like this. I I quite I I tend to get drawn towards more alternative comics which do refer to sex and drugs and rock and roll kind of thing. And I I just really like that kind of thing. I it's I I found with my own writing I write quite a lot of that kind of stuff when I did my graph.

SPEAKER_00 47:52

You don't use bad language at all.

SPEAKER_02 47:53

No, I I I tend not to use bad language in uh uh uh bad language in mind, but a lot of my stuff has been more this what I would call slice of life. It's just a you know just a an ordinary day in in the life of these characters.

SPEAKER_00 48:08

And uh the literature the literature literary thank you, I couldn't say it. Use of swearing and is another whole area of study, isn't it? Yeah, absolutely. It's not something I know a lot about. No. Um yes, so there we go. I I I have to say I'd quite like to see I like Jane Austen, so I would be interested just to see one of her books. Not read it, just point it out if I'd see in the I'm in the shop.

SPEAKER_02 48:49

Usually, yeah, if you go in if you go into like a a bookstore, um like Waterstones over here in the UK, but but yeah, go over to the book.

SPEAKER_00 48:57

But I'm not going over anywhere else.

SPEAKER_02 48:59

Anyway, you you would quite often in the graphic novel section there what there will be um and in the manga sections there's been manga adaptations of Shakespeare and and other well-known stories.

SPEAKER_00 49:10

Manga, Shakespeare. Yeah. That is funny. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:14

But they've had manga artists and writers do um their own version of their own take on Shakespeare.

SPEAKER_00 49:22

Well, again, it's commercial, isn't it? It is, yeah, absolutely. Whatever will make money. Not that I don't have a problem with making money. It might sound as if I kind of have, but I think I recognise everywhere people are made marketing and making things.

SPEAKER_02 49:39

Me again coming in defence of comics. I've bought comics for younger friends of mine when it's come to birthdays and stuff. I've bought comics and stuff, and I've had their parents turn around and say they're so pleased because they're actually reading and they want and they wanted to read more. The Simpsons comics are a great example of that because of so many people are aware of the Simpsons characters through the cartoons, so they they can immediately relate to the characters in the comics, and it and I'd yeah, I've had I've had people come back to me and say thank you so much because you've got my kids reading.

SPEAKER_00 50:12

Yeah, well, that's really reiterating the the point I made earlier that poor readers gravitate towards comics because they don't have to work so hard, yeah, and it's still improving their reading.

SPEAKER_02 50:27

The pictures are are helping to tell the story, exactly. And as my me and Elizabeth are showing here, we both learn and read and digest information in very different ways. I'm very much a visual communicator, whereas Larise Moreau works more with words and literacy and that's right.

SPEAKER_00 50:46

And you remember detail, yeah, and I see bigger pictures, yeah, yeah. So definitely wired different ways.

SPEAKER_02 50:56

Yeah, definitely wired different ways. But that's why that's what makes this this show so interesting because we're coming at it from two very different angles. Me, I look at comics and it's quite simple and straightforward to me because I've read them my whole life and I know how they work. But for Elizabeth, who does who's not a visual learner for want of a better term, it's difficult it's more difficult for her to understand how visual language works. I look I look at a comic page and I know it's what's going on straight away.

SPEAKER_00 51:25

It's like the character who was a bird. Now you said they had feathers, yeah, and they had this and that. I didn't get that. Um I get it when you tell me I can see, but I don't know the language.

SPEAKER_02 51:40

Yeah, so again, yeah, being a cartoonist, I understand because I draw characters. Sometimes I have I've drawn anthropomorphic characters, I've got some of my own. Um and I there's kind of a visual shorthand for how to, you know, how you can tell that a character is a cat or a dog or a bird or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 51:59

Yeah, so anybody that's new to new to comics and listen to this and see.

SPEAKER_02 52:05

So this is it, this is doing this show is is a life she's been aware of comics for a long time, so we've known each other a while, known each other a while, and she's obviously she's I've been making her more aware of comics, and because I create them myself, she's seen my artwork. So she appreciates what goes into it, but this is the first time doing these shows that we've really you've really sat down and looked at comics.

SPEAKER_00 52:30

Yes, I'd flick through things otherwise and say what's that.

SPEAKER_02 52:34

So you're learning a lot more about comics and how comics work when we're actually doing this show.

SPEAKER_00 52:39

I wonder how long it'll take before, if ever, I think, well, I think I might start reading comics because I can't see that happening, but you never know. You never know, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 52:54

I think you've been quite pleasantly surprised by comics in general. Um you've got more enjoyment out of them than you possibly thought you would. Possibly, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:05

I still I still um story on hated, and I can't think of any of the ones that we bring. Is there any anywhere? Oh yes, there has been one with a good story. When the character was going around the country doing good deeds. Which one was that? He was he was it was a bit brute false because he did have Barney each time. Um it was really early, might be in high school. Oh, it's grew?

SPEAKER_02 53:35

Yes, yeah, grew, yeah. So grew easy yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:38

That's a good story.

SPEAKER_02 53:40

Yeah, beat the he's well he's well meaning, he always tries to do the right thing, but quite often, yeah, he gets into as Liz Maria say Elizabeth says, Barney's or fights. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:50

Yes. Um what what was the artist that did grew?

SPEAKER_02 53:54

So that's Sergio Aragonas.

SPEAKER_00 53:55

Oh yes, he had a nice name.

SPEAKER_02 53:57

And there's a new the new grow has literally just come out. I've got the first issue of the new story has just come out. Yeah. Yes. So there we go, folks. That's we probably went a little bit off topic a bit, but it kind of explains a bit about how we how both myself and Eliza Mariah see comics. We both see comics in a very different way.

SPEAKER_00 54:17

And I don't see any point where it matters if we go topic.

SPEAKER_02 54:20

Absolutely, and that and that's that's part of the the joy of the show that we can't that it opens up conversations about lots and lots of different things.

SPEAKER_00 54:28

And if the listener doesn't like it, they can't switch us off. But if you do like it, please tell other people. Oh, we had a milestone this week.

SPEAKER_02 54:39

Oh yeah, um we're very pleased to say that we've we hit a we hit a milestone at the weekend just gone. So we're recording this on a Tuesday. On the Saturday, I got an email came through from the hosting platform for our podcast, BuzzSprout, Buzzsprout.com. We have now had oh actually, we've had over 100 downloads of our episodes. So thank you to everyone for listening in and down downloading. It clearly shows that they're enjoying our show. Um, we really enjoy putting them together, coming in from completely different angles, as you've caught in this conversation we've been having.

SPEAKER_00 55:17

And we manage not to have an argument, don't we?

SPEAKER_02 55:19

We've managed to not have a bar.

SPEAKER_00 55:21

We have an argument, but we don't have a rail. This is very true. But we want you to go and tell everybody that get us 200, please.

SPEAKER_02 55:34

Yeah, well, obviously, you know, we're we're thrilled that we've we've had a hundred downloads, and that does and that's just downloads. We don't know how many people have actually listened to our show. We only get stats on people that have actually downloaded the show.

SPEAKER_00 55:45

And I um we'd like some more comments, please. Particularly want to know where you are.

SPEAKER_02 55:52

Yeah, yeah. We we can find out a certain amount about our audience, where you are in the world from from our control panel, our stat panel. But yeah, get in touch with us, let us know where you are, and what you want us to read.

SPEAKER_00 56:05

Yeah, obviously it depends on what we can find.

SPEAKER_02 56:07

Yeah, if there are comics that you think we we should look at, then let us know. You know, please do um get in contact with us. There is a I'm sure there's there's contact forms on most of uh most of the podcast pages that allows you to at least comment and you can tell us in the comments, and that would be absolutely fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 56:25

And if you don't like something, politely let us know. Absolutely. I I would get very cross with anybody at trolls. I will give my opinion to them if that even if they can't hear. But you know, constructive feedback. Absolutely, we always we always welcome constructive feedback, definitely. So thank you very much if you've downloaded and listened and just very pleased with that. And we better go because we're taking up the the listeners too much time of the listeners' time.

SPEAKER_02 56:58

With all of that, uh we will see you next Wednesday. Bye.

SPEAKER_00 57:03

Bye.