Ride the Wave ft. Debbie Alamrew [Ep. 4]

Did you miss me? Well, fret no more because we are back this week with a brand new episode of Dead Dads Club, the show where the dads are dead but the vibes are still okay!

This week we sit down with the creative force Debbie Alamrew. Debbie shares with us what it means to try and tackle creativity again in the face of grief and how her dad shaped her into the woman she is today. Plus, what are the right (and wrong) things to say to someone who is grieving and how do we honor those we aren't quite ready to let go of.

Guest: Debbie Alamrew

IG: debbiealamrew

TikTok: debbiealamrew

Check out Debbie's spoken word album Uncovering Me

Host: Maya Dawit

IG: @mdawit

TikTok: @maya_do_itt

Follow us on socials!

IG: @ddcpod

Tiktok: @deaddadzclubpod

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

He was someone who you could put into any room. And when I say any room, Maya, I mean like any room. And he would be the main character, get along with absolutely anyone. It does not matter culture, profession, background, none of that matters. He could literally relate to so many people.

SPEAKER_04 0:23

Welcome back, everyone, to the Dead Dads Club, the show where the dads are dead, but the vibes are still okay. We have a really great guest with us this week into our new little studio space. If you look around, um, you're not looking at my ugly kitchen anymore. It's gotten a little cuter in here, but I'm excited to have my guest in the stud with me to talk about her dad, talk about grief, talk about creativity and the arts and how all these things sort of exist within one another. And so without further ado, I'd like to welcome my guest, Debbie. Hi. Hey, thank you so much for coming, Debbie. We've been trying to make this happen for like six plus months now. But you're busy, I'm busy. Life is happening as we know around us constantly. But I'm so glad we were able to sort of make this work today. So I want to talk to you about a lot of things, but I always like before we jump into like the heavy, talk about you and what you're doing and what's new with you. So tell me a bit a bit about what's been going on with you lately, what you've been up to. I feel like you've been all over.

SPEAKER_02 1:20

Been doing a lot. Um, yeah. So I, my full-time job, I'm a project manager at Morning Brew, and I've always like loved Morning Brew. So I'm like in the media space for the first time after a while. Like I have kind of been like jumping around trying to figure out exactly what I wanted to do. So, you know, I did law first, and then I worked at like an Abbasha Parents Dream. Yeah. Well, not when I left, but then like I worked at a creative agency, and now like I think I've kind of found like myself and like what I enjoy doing, but I'm also a poet. So I've published a poetry book. I released a spoken word poetry album a couple years ago. I've been performing. Um, so yeah, just like balancing like a lot of stuff. I've spent a lot of time in Ethiopia. Yeah. Um, worked on some projects out there. I recorded the album out there, I recorded a video out there. So yeah, just been busy trying to balance.

SPEAKER_04 2:05

You guys have to watch, check out uh Debbie's Instagram page because she is, and I'll let you plug yourself at the end so people make sure that they take themselves over there. But you do such an incredible job, I think, of highlighting both, especially like in the last year and a half, and we'll talk a bit about you losing your dad, about sort of like the highs of life and also the lows and being unafraid to sort of show that in a very authentic and real way online, which um I think Instagram people always say it's a highlight real, but you can't ignore the lows and just show the highs. So your Instagram, I think, is a really good cultivation or reflection of who you are as a person as well. So that's incredible. I'm glad to hear the work things are going well and the life things and that you've we talked, we were just talking before we started recording about how sometimes work gets in the way of letting yourself be creative and sort of not letting that stifle your creative gene and just letting yourself take the time to make those creative projects happen. So that's great. Everybody check out Debbie's Instagram and she'll plug herself later. But to get into why you're here today with me in the studio and talk a little bit about loss and grief, you lost your dad a few years ago, and I wanted to talk to you about that. So I always like to start sort of in the beginning. And if you could tell us a bit about your dad, who he was, and what role he played in your family, and then we'll go from there. Okay, I told myself I wouldn't cry. That's okay. No, this is a safe place to cry. This is a cry. And you always like to start with having people like say their dad's names and like, you know, still speak their name out there. So if you tell us your dad's name, tell us a bit about him.

SPEAKER_02 3:30

So my dad's name is Alamro Aldomariam.

unknown 3:32

Ooh.

SPEAKER_02 3:32

Um, yeah. Strong name. And so obviously, in our culture, like we take their first name as our last name. So I'm, you know, Debrito Alamru. But um, so my dad was, oh my gosh, just the pillar of our family. Like, without a shadow of a doubt, he was just like the example of an incredible, incredible man who like took everybody in his family under his wing. He was a provider. He took care of everybody in a way that you it wasn't like just working and taking care. It was like with so much love and intention. And I think everybody felt it, which is why his loss was like such a great, great, great loss in my family. Um, but growing up, he was the man who saw me as like, he wanted me to grow into a full woman. So, like, he loved, you know, he put me into ballet because he was like, that's girly and that's what girls should do. But he also put me into karate and was like, I want my daughter to be strong. I want her to be able to defend herself. I want her to never be afraid of anyone, you know what I mean? So he was that kind of a man. Education was so important to him. Um, hence the law school. And um, yeah, education was important to him. One thing that I always think about when it comes to him, he was the man who would always say, like, treat the CEO and the janitor the same way. And but he exemplified it too. He was someone who you could put into any room. And when I say any room, Maya, I mean like any room, and he would be the main character, get along with absolutely anyone. It does not matter culture, profession, background, none of that matters. He could literally relate to so many people. He was so well read, and he had like not a photographic memory, but he just never forgot stuff he read because he read stuff with such interest and he could like pull it out anywhere. And I always loved like the balance him and my mom had because he would obviously talk to her about all of this stuff. So almost like by osmosis, she like learned all of this stuff. So like when they're having conversations with people, he would start something, and if he forgot it, she could jump in. And like their dynamic was just like incredible to watch. Exactly. Yeah, but yeah, he was just an incredible, incredible man.

SPEAKER_04 5:30

That's amazing. I always find it so profound, especially. I mean, we're so entrenched in our Ethiopian culture, and I think there's sometimes this narrative of Ethiopian dads being very cold and like quiet and just like they're there to provide or whatever. And whenever I talk to my friends and these people that I know who are like, no, my dad was a big goofball and he knew how to have fun, and he was not interested in just raising a soft housewife or anything. Like, he wanted to raise a holistic, well-rounded person. And I don't know why that narrative isn't the norm because that's what I hear most often when I hear about people talking about their dads. And so when you're talking about the ballet in Taekwondo, dynamics, same. I did ballet and was the most undisciplined ballerina. Like, but in Taekwondo, I was like, Oh, I get to fight. And he's like, Yeah, go fight, go fight, don't fight your brother, go fight those other kids in there. I'm like, okay, this is great. Like, he was really interested in kind of a big thing.

SPEAKER_02 6:18

Don't get me wrong, he was strict. Oh, please. He was strict, like a 99. Like his response would be like, Well, why didn't you make a hundred? A hundred percent. Yeah. So there was that. He was very, very strict. But as a kid, I was like, uh, you know, like, and so I think that might be part of it. Is to our friends, I'd be like, no, he's just so strict. He's so strict. And that's what I would share more of. Yeah. So that's kind of how they viewed him, especially my non-Habashef friends who didn't get that. And then now looking back, I'm like, no, like this world is.

SPEAKER_04 6:46

I'm disciplined because of discipline.

SPEAKER_02 6:48

One, two, I'm so aware of like all of your fears, like never being allowed to sleep over. Like that wasn't the worst thing. Yeah, yeah. Like, why do you hate me? I want to go play at Sally's house. And now I'm like, ah, I don't want to stay at the I don't want to stay at these people's houses. Like, you're you were right. So yeah, it is definitely this like balance.

SPEAKER_04 7:06

So, what was your relationship with grief like prior to your father's passing? Had you lost someone in your life before? Or I know you've spoken a bit about losing your grandmother when you were young as well. I did a little uh recon research on you. So, but yeah, what was your relationship with grief life prior to his loss and sort of how has the relationship changed since the um since his passing?

SPEAKER_02 7:25

Yeah, I definitely, definitely um had met grief. Uh I'd lost all three of my grandparents. So my father's father I never knew. He had passed before I was born, but losing the three grandparents was hard. I lost a sister. It'll actually be 10 years this year. So definitely had experienced grief, lost the pain of that, the hole that's left behind. But this one, like nothing prepares you. Absolutely nothing prepares you. This is like it's just this like encompassing, engulfing, completely life-changing, altering grief. Like there's like my relationship now is completely different. I think the past uh losses they hurt, but I don't think they I don't think I said goodbye to the person I was before, if that makes sense. Like now I'm like the Debbie before losing my dad, she just doesn't exist anymore. It's like a whole different Debbie. So there's like this journey of not only mourning that person, but also like relearning who you are now. And I feel like that has been very, very hard.

SPEAKER_04 8:26

What would you say is, I guess, the starkest difference between the Debbie of then and the Debbie of now, if you can even put it into words. How do I put it into words?

SPEAKER_02 8:34

There's a certain amount of joy, like there's a certain joy that I've lost in the sense of like exciting things have happened, but knowing like I can't tell my dad is just kind of like that's hard. Also, just like relationship, or even the thought of like relationships. I've lost this, like, like I'm 39, so it's like clearly already a Havishad disappointment that I'm not married with kids. Um, but I I no longer have like an excitement to find that, and maybe that'll change over time. But I think the thought of like finding someone who doesn't know my dad is absolutely insane to me. And I just said like I grew up not knowing my father's father, but the thought of having a child and they don't know my dad just feels insane because he's such a big part of and is not even was, but he is such a big part of who I am.

SPEAKER_04 9:18

Yeah, so to not be able to introduce him to a potential husband or a future child just feels crazy to doesn't feel like a reality that you even pictured being an option for you, which is just like you're like, how am I how am I in this space? Like, how did I even get here? That is that's heavy. And I've I've talked to a few friends who are in a very similar situation, or I had a friend on the show not too long ago where her now husband, then he was just her boyfriend, I think met her dad maybe a month or two before he passed. And she was someone who she's like, I was like ready to give up on dating before I met this boy. I don't even know what stars aligned to allow these two people to connect. And so now she's like a mother and she has a son, and she's like, I wish I could share my son with my dad, but at least my husband got to meet it.

SPEAKER_02 10:01

Wait, is she in Dallas?

SPEAKER_04 10:02

No, no, no. She's in the house.

SPEAKER_02 10:03

Oh, I have I have a friend that's an exact same story. Really?

SPEAKER_04 10:05

Yes. Wow, yeah. No, she lives in Maryland. Um, but she's like, I yeah, my at least my husband can share my dad with our son as well, and like be able to keep him alive in that way. But she's like, I don't even know why I got lucky enough to have them meet my husband before we got to get married. So it is, it really just sort of tilts your whole world on its axis, and you're like, the things that you valued and saw as important before, you're like kind of like whatever. Or like, yeah, like oh, I will I even be able to feel the joy of those things when they actually happen. So yeah. I want to take you back a little to sort of the immediate aftermath of your dad's passing, and you sort of think about, and we come from a very enriched and tight-knit community where people are really big on showing up. And I want to think, I want you to think about and tell us a bit about the people who showed up for you and what like your community looked like in the immediate aftermath of that, and then sort of to now, like, what does that look like for you, people showing up for you, and how's that been?

SPEAKER_02 10:59

I I was in Ethiopia, it happened in Ethiopia. So um when it first happened, um, we were around family. So we had family and my friends there, like everybody kind of rushed over night of. I was lucky enough to have a friend, Kitty, who I had been with earlier in the day. And you know, I remember like rushing home because mom my mom was like, Oh, he doesn't seem like great. So I had like rushed home and then he was okay, and I was like, Oh, he's fine, like you can leave. And then I had literally like called her at right after, and it was late at night, and she came like rushing back and like basically was with me the entire night. Wow. So there's friends like that. There's um a group of friends showed up for me in like an absolutely insane way. They planned this whole dinner for my family at our house, had like caterers come, made the space look beautiful. It was in our garden, they had like tables, tablecloth, flowers, and had like such a beautiful dinner. And I think my family were very shocked by that as well. But I felt, and that was it was put together by my friends in Ethiopia who had connected with my friends here, like all over the states, right? So, like my college friends from Dallas, um, friends from LA, friends from here had all kind of gotten together and like the card had all of their names. Obviously, that I broke down, obviously. Um, but I felt a lot of love. And in our culture, you know, there's the 40 days of grieving. I was so lucky to be working at this small company at the time who gave me the 40 days. I had explained to them I'm in Ethiopia, I was working remote, and they just like covered my projects and I got the 40 days, which I, you know, is unheard of. I mean, what do you get here? Like five days? It's like a disgusting. If you're lucky, yeah. They're like, you need the weekend, right? You're like For the funeral. Just have the Saturday for the funeral, we'll see you back on Monday. Like that's insane. Um, and that has to be by someone who's never lost a parent, to be honest, or someone close. So I had that. As time goes on, it changes. That 40 days where people are showing up all the time, you have your Dunquan up, like you know what I mean? Like everybody, like like neighbors who you don't even know are showing up, bringing stuff, food, water, yeah, like nonstop, and you feel it, you feel the community, and that's beautiful. And then after the 40 days, because you know, there's other people that are other uh people's lives are still going on, yeah. And by the way, that is the toughest part of losing a parent to me, is I could not grasp how like life can just go on. Yeah, like you go out, like you're driving to like the church or something, and people are just going about their day, laughing, joking, living their life. And that to me was such a hard thing to grasp. Um but community. So I think since then it's interesting because my close friends, no one's lost, like my very close circle, no one's lost a parent. But they've shown up for me as best they can, which has been really, really, you know, beautiful and powerful. But I will say, anytime someone has lost a parent, messaging and wording is so different. Oh my god. I remember the message you sent me. Yeah. Um, when when I lost my dad, and it's just different. And I found myself doing that for people now. I'm like, oh, like you lost your dad. Like I just did this the other day, a friend from college, and I was just like, oh, like I feel compelled to write like a message similar to yours, where it's like, nothing's gonna make this okay. There's no words I could, you know, share. Um, but yeah, so I think one thing I would compel like people, if someone in your close circle has lost a parent, is something super simple that some of my friends have done is like just put into your calendar like the the dates of yes, there's Father's Day, that's an obvious day to reach out to me. I get it. But his birthday, the day he passed, like the anniversary of his passing, those days are important to hear from people that you know you love.

SPEAKER_04 14:30

But big holidays, like every Christmas looks different, Thanksgiving is different, like it all like is so heavy in a way that like you're like, I know, and you never want to be, I think this is the other thing that I find difficult sometimes too, and I don't know if you can relate, is I never want to be the dark cloud in people's lives that's just like, yeah, Merry Christmas. Like Christmas kind of sucks over here though. Which, like, it's the truth. And I think there are people who can hold space for that who have so I've had friends who have lost parents when they were younger, who have friends who've lost parents since my dad has passed, who like really know how to hold space for that and show up for you. And like you said, the messages are different from them than the ones who will also show up for you and be like, Hey, I'm really thinking about you today. Don't even respond if you don't want to. Like, that's fine. But that's a great line. And I cannot emphasize how when I think about things that people did right and did wrong in that time, anyone who says, like, you don't need to respond to this. There are I have unread phone texts in my phone from October 2023 that like I couldn't even get to opening to this day. Cause I'm like, I I I love every message that came through, but like I don't have it in me to like respond to everyone. And I hope people and that reaction thing that uh Apple lets you do, well love that. I'll give you a quick little heart, and that's all I can get from me because I cannot respond to one more person. But like giving people that kind of space, I think is so. Speaking of messaging, never ask, are you okay? Because I'm not. Yeah, no, I'm not not great, not doing great over here. And I don't need to tell you that I'm not, I'm just like, absolutely. Yeah, that was gonna be one of my questions, or like, what did people get right and what did people get wrong during that time?

SPEAKER_02 16:00

And and I hate to say wrong, but like, are you okay is is is wrong messaging. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_04 16:05

Like if I punched you in the face, would you be okay?

SPEAKER_02 16:07

Right. Like my world has just crumbled around me, and like, no, I'm not okay. Like, it's hard to get out of bed, it's all of this stuff. But I think, yeah, what you said, um, sometimes you know what, just say nothing. Yeah. Sometimes just showing up, sitting silently, letting me talk, like letting me talk about him or asking me about him. Yeah, I think people are afraid to ask about him, but that's actually like better for me. Because here's the thing like, regardless of if you ever talk to me about him or not, I'm thinking about him every day.

SPEAKER_04 16:33

Constantly.

SPEAKER_02 16:34

Like every day throughout the day, I'm thinking about him. So you bringing him up, that's not gonna be like, oh my god, I reminded her about him. Yeah, yeah, right. I'm never forgetting. I'm not forgetting, I'm sitting in it all the time. So it's like if you talk, if you bring him up, well, now I don't have to do it inside silently, I can actually talk about it. And that probably is helpful. But I get that it might be awkward or uncomfortable, but yeah.

SPEAKER_04 16:54

Especially because it'll likely trigger an emotional response, which is not a negative thing. I think a lot of grief is meant to be lived out loud. And if you allow someone the space to do that, they feel less awkward about doing it, unless, but if you're someone who I know some people are not uh comfortable with emotion, they just are really they shy away from it, which is totally fine. But I think giving people the space to be like, I'm like crying right now, but it's not because I'm sad, it's because like this is just how I feel on the inside, and it's just sort of showing itself. So giving people that space is really important. What would you say grief has taught you about yourself?

SPEAKER_02 17:28

Ooh, um outside of the fact that I wasn't ready to lose my day. Yeah, um, what has grief taught me about myself? You know what has taught me? It's taught me that I need to live in moments a lot more, just because this life is so temporary. Like at the beginning of it, like especially in your in your early 20s, you're just like, there's so much more ahead. But I remember like my dad lived his life like fully. He lived in some incredible countries, he's done so many things, like he's he's just he lived a life that he was proud to talk about and share stories about. So I think losing him specifically has taught me that. And also, my dad was really big on videos and pictures, right? Like, and not just when you're in Disney World and you pull out the video camera. No, he would like literally similar to this setup, he would like have a video camera set up in the living room and just capture us. My dad was influencing before. Okay, so yes. My friends know that I'm the first to pull out my phone and capture a moment. And it's not because I'm not living in the moment, but it's because I want that moment. And how I normally would think of it is like I want to look back at that moment. Like when I'm older, I want to look back at us in New York in our, you know, like early 30s and whatever, living our best life. But now I'm like, oh my gosh, but those memories live on long after you for the people who love you and want to be able to hear your voice and just see how you looked and how you lived. And I think like that's like another thing it's taught me. A friend recently, they're coming up on like, I think it's 10 years since they lost their dad. And he was saying to me how like he almost like forgot his voice, but he had like old videos. Yeah, and so I just was like, Oh my god, like you can actually forget your dad's voice. Absolutely. But you know, it's so fresh for me. You know, it's two two years this year, so I feel like there's levels to it. But I just was like, oh my god, how do you make it 10 years?

SPEAKER_04 19:15

There will be a time where it's just like there'll be a time when I think, you know, we're still both relatively young. There might be a time where it's a strong reality that you might have lived longer without your dad than with him, which is such a crazy thing to think about because it's like, I feel like, you know, I got 30 years with you, which feels like so long, but I probably still have, you know, God willing, another 40, 50 years left of life to live. And so just thinking that there will be a time where I think if you've even talked to your parents about their parents, they'll be like, yeah, like I can I can like still picture them and they like imagine them, but even they're imagining a version of their parents that's like much younger than the version of them that passed, like a very different parent than the one that even we knew or grandparent that we knew. So there comes a time where you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:57

My mom is now older than her mom was when she passed. Isn't that that's crazy? Crazy. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_04 20:04

And I don't know if it's something that you know, when you're younger, everyone just seems old to you. Like everyone is a grown-up, everyone is old. And I was talking to my mom not too long ago where she was just like, when I had she said my brother's two and a half years older than me. She's like, when you know, when my grandma came from Ethiopia to America, it was my mom's first child, so she's like, let me come be there for her for a little bit. And that was back when it was easy to come into the country and go as you please. And so she like came and stayed for a year almost. And she's like, she she's was the age I am now, a grand, and she was a grandmother, and my brother and I, you know, it's my brother, it's me, and then I have one cousin younger than me, and that's the end of our cousin line. But there's about 15 that came before us, so she'd been a grandma for a long time. We're at the tail end of grandma, she was only in her 60s, yeah. And I'm like, what? If you would have told me my grandmother was like 80 for the entire duration that I knew her, I'm like, yeah, she told me 80, but no, I met this woman at like 65. Yeah, that's she was young, yeah, and that's so that is true, blows my mind. When you really sit with it, it's like yeah, I'm like, wow, she was young, and that means they also died really. My grandmother died at 72. She's very young when she died. So I'm just like, 72 is nothing. I mean, my dad was 72 and he passed, and dad also feels like nothing to me now. And I can't even imagine how my mom felt back then, and she had gotten her for so much longer, it feels like exactly it's it's so hard.

SPEAKER_02 21:28

Yeah, yeah, it's so hard. Uh, I don't know. And that's actually a thing I look sometimes because I'm like, I have cousins who lost their dad and they're like teenagers. And I'm just like, oh my God. Because I had my dad through all of my like super formative years, and that shaped so much of who I am and how I look at him and how I'll move forward through it, right? But I'm just like, oh my gosh, like I don't even know which one's harder because there's that, but then you said your mom, and I'm like, but she got more time, right? So that hurts more because you've got more time with her time.

SPEAKER_04 22:00

More time. I don't know. It's just all bad. Yeah, we have no answers here. I don't know what to tell you. It's all really, really bad. We're just trying to make it from day one to day two over here. I want to switch gears a little bit and talk about your poetry. Okay. I'm going to talk about your spoken word album. I have listened to your album and I listened to it again yesterday because I was just like, there are some things, and you release this in the aftermath of your dad's passing. And so I think there's a lot of messages of like being reborn and grief and loss, but also like appreciation and like love. And like it sort of tackles all these major points. And you speak very publicly about grief and your grief. And you are, you say a lot of things. I'm going to quote you to you. So I apologize if that makes you feel a type of way. But um you said that it's hard to dream when you're navigating nightmares, which I think was like something really profound, which I think someone said to you and you shared with the world. And then you said that grief laughed at you as it settled deeper and it whispers that this is a pain that only grows. Do you still feel that way about grief? Do you still feel like it's this thing that's continuing to grow in you? Or do you feel like you sort of understand the pain for what it is? I think it oh, that's that's a great question.

SPEAKER_02 23:15

Um so how I've looked at it is I feel like people think as time passes, the grief gets smaller. But I don't think that. I think life just grows around it. Oh, I see. Do you know what I mean? I think you just it's almost like if you if you're training, girl, I've been on my fitness journey. So I'm Amen. I'm gonna bring a little training and talk about it. When I first started, like certain weights were so heavy, it was like impossible to pick up. And I'd look at my trainer and just be like, no, yeah, like I'm not doing that. But now over time, I've been like gradually building up, building up, building up. And now I'm like, oh, I can actually lift like these really heavy weights and I'm not like falling over or whatever. And that's kind of how I look at grief, is like it is heavy as hell, and it keeps getting heavier, but it's like you just learn to carry it. So I guess to answer your question, yeah, I think I am becoming a little bit more kind of acquainted with it. Yeah. And just learning to to hold it as I move through life. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:09

I imagine it's like the weight hasn't gone any lighter. You've just adapted to be able to carry it in a way that you couldn't when you were first facing this quote unquote metaphorical way or literal way, which is exactly because the first few days are you're like five pounds is too much, and now you're like, I can do the five, I can do the ten. The twenty is still challenging the thirties, but one day thirty will feel like five. And you don't know when that day is gonna come, but it's on its way. I have to imagine that uh track 10, Angels, is a track that you wrote about your dad.

SPEAKER_02 24:41

It's actually not. It's not. I'll tell you a story about the album. Okay. So the album, uh, but Angels I wrote about my sister.

SPEAKER_04 24:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 24:48

But um the album, I was recording it in 2024. Okay. So I had made this decision to spend some time in Ethiopia. It had just been um furloughed. Okay. So I didn't know if I was gonna like be back at that company or not. So I had like packed everything up, gone to Ethiopia, bought a one-way ticket. Nice. And was like, why not spend time with my parents, be back home with them? Because who gets to do that, right? Once you've left the house. So I go to Ethiopia and I'm looking for studios. I also intentionally wanted the album to be very like, I wanted you to feel Ethiopia in it. So I wanted to work with Ethiopian producers, I wanted to record it at a studio, I wanted to have feature artists that are Ethiopian, like that was important to me. So I embark on this project, this journey with them. And you know, my parents are there every step of the way. I'm like telling them all about it. Yeah, you sample their voices. Exactly. Yeah. Sample their voices, that was the whole thing. But they did and they liked it. And the crazy thing, Maya, is I had my last day in the studio May 3rd. Okay. And so the the um producer I was working with, his name is Sammy Stickbreaker. He was awesome, but he put it all on a SoundCloud link for me. And it was private, so like, you know, it wasn't mixed and mastered yet. So I go home that night, I have my headphones in, I listen to the whole thing from start to finish just to get the experience of what it would sound like. And I recorded a video that night, just like so excited about it. Yeah. And so the next day, Saturday, May 4th, my mom was like, Oh, I'm about to go to the market. Like, can you just hang out with your dad? I was like, Of course. So I'm sitting with him in the living room, we're like chatting it up, and I was like, Oh, by the way, I finished my album, you want to hear it? And he was like, Yeah. So I gave him headphones and played it from start to finish. So the opening track is a prayer in English, and the closing track is a prayer in Amharic. So he gets to the end and he asks me to play the last prayer again, the prayer in Amharic. So I play it for him, and he was like, This is good, like I'm proud of you.

SPEAKER_01 26:40

This is what you've been doing this whole time. And he passed away that night. I swear to God. That he passed away that night. Insane.

SPEAKER_02 26:51

And wow. That project means so much to me because of that. Like the fact that he got to hear it from start to finish, but it was the that night part is so crazy to me. Um, and I was supposed to release the album in June.

unknown 27:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 27:06

But obviously, like obviously that didn't happen. So I ended up releasing it August 20th on his birthday. Wow. That's so crazy.

SPEAKER_04 27:16

Cause if you would have asked me, I would have thought you started and completed it after he passed away. Like the way that it just seems so now when I hear it, like kind of like a premonition, like you're like really speaking about something that you don't even know what you're preparing yourself for. Wow.

SPEAKER_02 27:34

Because it's just everything like the daughter of immigrants, like all of that. I'm so happy he got to hear that. And he heard it with his voice and my mom's voice, and yeah. Like, you know, smiled and he liked that. And yeah, it's it's insane. Trust me. I didn't change a thing. I thought about including something dedicated to him in the album, like recording something. I just didn't want something rushed, and I still haven't. I'm not fully ready. I've been writing, but like I feel like when I do something for him, I want it to be something I have worked on and like feels more intentional as opposed to rushed. But yeah, that was that was all done the day before. That's incredible.

SPEAKER_04 28:08

I think I like can't even put into words, and I'm sure you know it and you feel it, like how much of a gift it is that he got to hear it.

SPEAKER_02 28:15

That's that's all I have.

SPEAKER_04 28:16

Life-changing.

SPEAKER_02 28:18

That's literally all I have. Like, that's at first it felt like cruel, but then I was like, wait, and the fact that my mom had even left, so it was just this like pure moment with him and between the two of you is something like I'll hold on to for that's so that's like gonna make me cry.

SPEAKER_04 28:34

That's so beautiful. Oh my god. No, I wasn't like I can't, I like have full body chills when you said like definitely very. Oh my god, that's crazy. Well, I mean, and I'm like we were talking about the track Angels, but I'm like, even for you to write something that's so beautiful about your sister, I we didn't really talk about you losing your sister that much, but that's it was I it really stuck. I've like listened to it over and over again, but yeah, because I'm like, this is so I don't know, it just felt so intentional, and like you really were putting language to a lot of feelings that I think a lot of people just can't understand.

SPEAKER_02 29:08

So and it really touched on because I mentioned my grandparents in it, so it really was touching on a lot of the losses I've had. Yeah. So it wasn't necessarily a singular, because I do have a poem about my sister that I wrote specifically, a different one that's not on the album, but I actually got to perform it at Fendica in Ethiopia. And my parents were in the audience. That's the first time they heard me perform poetry. And randomly, this friend of mine was like behind my parents, and she was recording this video. And I think she realized they were my parents in the middle of recording because you know, my mom's there with the iPad. My mom's there with the iPad, and then my dad is like watching the iPad, and then like instead of looking at me, I'm like, I'm in front of you, like just watch me. But my friend has this video, and I think once she peeped, she like started focusing kind of more on them instead of me, which I absolutely love. So I have that like video of them watching that poem be performed. I do feel very, very lucky.

SPEAKER_04 29:59

Yeah, that's incredible. You're blessed. Oh my god, yeah. And you sort of touched on something that I wanted to bring up as well was that you start and close this album with a prayer. And so I like to ask people, uh, what role has religion or faith or spirit spirituality played in your journey with grief? Um, and you say, you know, the opening prayers in English, the second prayer is an Amarinha. I have to assume you're a raised Ethiopian Orthodox. So I wonder, and I've talked about this a lot here, so I won't, you know, bore our listeners, but I pose the question what role has religion and spirituality and faith played in your journey with grief?

SPEAKER_02 30:33

It's played a large, a large part in my journey with grief. It's interesting because when I first lost my dad, one of my friends had reached out and was like, it's okay to be mad at God. Like I was mad for so long, it's okay to not understand. And that's not what I felt because of everything that built up. I think him being able to hear the album way meant so much to me. But I also was very aware of the privilege of spending that time with them. Like just even sitting with them, talking with them, like and I just was like, thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Because I could have heard that news in New York. You know what I mean? Um so I was very, very grateful to God and also it happening in Ethiopia. There's something about like I mean, my dad was just ugh, honestly, like even how he left was so like magnificent. It was like the day before Easter. And the priests were like, had it been the day before that, they wouldn't have been able to do fatat. Do you know what I mean? Like there were just like things that had happened. His yeah, his Kristana sim or name is um Weldemasquel.

unknown 31:37

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 31:37

And even the the priest was like, wow, because you know, Easter is like Jesus on the cross. The priest was just like, this is very like profound, this is really, really deep. And I was like, that just makes sense. And then we had fatat, so it's like, you know, when the casket is in the house and it's covered with the beautiful like church cloths and the priests are praying, and there's something about there's something about our church, and like I think being back home too, but the same here, but I just felt so rooted in the faith that that held me for a long time. And I think also just our culture, like the way people mourn with you, um, is is very kind of grounded in God. So when I left, after like, you know, I was there for the 40 days, when I left and came back, I just like kept talking to God. And that's kind of like how I talk to my dad still. Because I've always prayed out loud, but now I'll just be sitting in my room, I'm like, oh, so dad, like, and I just try talking. I'm like, listen, I'm pretty sure you can hear me. Also, signs. Have you had signs? So I can't even get into it. I had this thing that started, it started in Ethiopia, like shortly after he had passed, where like this like side of my leg just started burning. And I was like, I've never experienced that in my life. Like, I don't know, I don't even know to this day what it is. You couldn't see it, but I was like, ow, I was like, my leg's like burning. And my mom was like, What do you mean? I was like, I don't know, it's just burning. So I just like ignored it, whatever. And then I now am able to peep when it starts burning, and it's always these insane moments. Like there was a time we went um to, you know, when you like feed the poor. We were doing that, and randomly out of the blue, someone asked me to speak, and I was like so nervous, like this is like days after losing my dad. Like, I don't want to speak to a crowd. And they were just like, put a mic in my hand. And as I was walking up, I was like terrified. Because also, and I'm haric. Oh. I speak Amharic, but I can't express my grief in the way that I would want to. Absolutely. So I was like terrified, and as I turned, like my leg burns, and I just felt calm. And I was like, oh, hold on. I was like, I know what this is. You're holding my hand because I was like, is this you? So like now I pay attention to when it happens, and I just am like, yeah, fascinated by that.

SPEAKER_04 33:43

They're really good at making their presence be known because they're just like, listen, and I don't know if again, is a lot of this rooted in the fact that, like, do you put more is something a sign or am I putting too much into it? I always ask myself that too, but I'm like, no, I'm gonna accept this at face value and say that if I'm someone who has faith, my father was someone who had faith, why wouldn't he be showing his face in a time where I'm needing to be strengthened a little bit? Like you were doing that when you were alive. Why wouldn't you do that after you're gone in a way that I don't even have to tell you that I need support? You're just sort of there to support me. So that's beautiful. That's so beautiful. Wow, dads, what are you guys doing to us?

SPEAKER_01 34:20

No, literally.

SPEAKER_04 34:22

So do you feel like your art has like changed in the aftermath of losing your dad? I know you said you've worked on some things that like you haven't fully published or haven't put out there, but do you see it sort of your grief being reflected in the art that you're creating now?

SPEAKER_02 34:35

Yeah, I do. Um, and I think something that I've always found important in my poetry or just art in general, or whatever I do, to be honest, anything creative that I'm doing is I want people to resonate with it, whatever community that way that is. Like if you're resonating because it's black women, because it's Ethiopian, it's Habashad, it's African, whatever. And so um now being a part of the Dead Dads Club, um, you know, a membership I never wanted, but like here I am, I do think that words are powerful. And I think I have like, you know, posted some stuff on Instagram or TikTok or whatever that I've just written, not necessarily to publish anywhere. And the responses I get are so deep from people I've you know never met. Um, and I do find a lot of healing in that, right? Like even in my for myself.

SPEAKER_03 35:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:23

Um, so I think if I'm able to express something and heal myself in a certain way and other people can resonate and feel some kind of connection or just not like knowing that you're not alone. Like honestly, Mai, I think this is genius. You created something where you get to talk to other people who've been through the same pain and experience it differently, but now you just get to yap with people. I get to talk about my dad and get to talk about your dad. Exactly. And I think that's brilliant. And I'll say, like another friend of mine, Helen, the one I was telling you earlier, who's in Dallas, she started this Instagram page. It's at underscore um life.

SPEAKER_04 35:52

Life after daddy?

SPEAKER_02 35:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 35:54

I love that page. I and I I love that knowing that you know her because I think I sat on this project for a really long time. I recorded the first interview with my first guest in May of 2025, but I didn't release it until I mean it's what is it now, March? I didn't release it until February of 2026. I sat on it in almost a year because I was off like part of it was fear. I'm like, if I'm gonna do this thing and say it's for my dad, I want it to be perfect. And I think seeing her page really like was really helpful to me to be like, just do it. Like, what are you so afraid of? What are you holding on to? You know, just like don't be afraid to do that. So I I love that page.

SPEAKER_02 36:34

So yeah, because she's using her words, it's a grief journal. Yeah, and she has a way with words. Oh my god. Yeah, she can sling some words together. So I think finding what works for you, and I just don't think I found my exact outlet yet. Um, but I do think that's that's a beautiful way to release.

SPEAKER_04 36:51

What do you think your dad would think of how you're doing now?

SPEAKER_02 36:54

Girl, I think he'd be proud. I do think he'd be proud. I think he knows like how much I think of him. Um, oh, hold on. Wait a second. Um I think he'd be proud. I think you know, he knows what he poured into me. So I think seeing I think he'd be sad though, too, because it's also like if he can see everything, then he sees a lot of the breakdowns, right? So if he sees everything, then he probably feels sad, but I think he's proud.

SPEAKER_04 37:24

Yeah, yeah. It's like I never meant to hurt you, but yeah. What uh would you want people to know about grief? And what would and maybe yours grief specifically, but also grief conceptually, like what would you want people to know having experienced what you've experienced now?

SPEAKER_02 37:40

I think like we shouldn't hate about grief, right? Because the grief hurts so much because the love was so big. And I think like if you're lucky enough to be in this much pain, it's because you were lucky enough to experience that much love. You know what I mean? So I think you just have to figure out your relationship with grief and how you move with it. Um but yeah, grief is I mean, it's something we're all gonna experience or have experienced, right? It's it's nothing that you can avoid. So you just if you live a life of love, then you'll get through the grief. But I think find community, um, particularly community that understand, you know, like I and I I don't wish like any of my friends to experience this at all. The ones that haven't, it's like I I dread the day, you know what I mean? But for the ones that have, it's like keeping them close and just like checking in on each other for sure.

SPEAKER_04 38:34

You're so not alone. I think, and we live in the era of an algorithm, and I can't tell you how in the immediate aftermath of my dad dying. Oh, girl. All I saw was every single person alive who has a dead dad. And I was like, God damn. Yes. It's and it was not just on my like TikTok or my Instagram. Every show I was watching, every character had a dead dad. I'm like, was I just not aware of this before? I think and it was there, and now that it's my lived reality, now it's and is that what it is? But I and I I guess it's happening to you too. I'm like, wow, there is community out there, and I think you talked a bit about like the home movies and things like that, like things that I'm so lucky to have, because there are some people who don't have these things, or they have, like you said, like maybe like these big moments on video. But our dad would, right around when I was born, my dad was finishing his PhD. So he's like really trying to study, and then there's like one-year-old me, like, what are you doing? Like bothering him. So he's like, All right, so he'd like put down his books, take, take off the camera and be like, ish she, like he'll turn on, like, we are a big music house, so you have like Ethiopian music, he's like, Oh, do your eskista and like it's just videos of me and my brother dancing or like just the mundaneness of our everyday life. And I'm so grateful to have that because like I can look back on it, and I've always been a very, I like to say I'm plagued with nostalgia. I love sitting and like I would spend weekends growing up just watching home movies, like the same ones over and over, and being able to like live. I think my biggest not even regret, but the thing that makes me the saddest is that like because he's behind the camera, you don't see him as much. Yes, same. And there will be times where I will be like, give the camera to someone else, like you get in here with us, like be in the video with us. We want to see you too. But he's behind the camera so much that all you have is a voice sometimes. But even that that will like send a shiver down my spine just hearing his voice sometimes. So, like I just like I can't help, like you said, but feel lucky to like be so hurt and exactly, but also lucky to be like I can be this hurt and stand up and still be okay. It does have to do with everything with like what our dads have poured into us. Do you have any advice for anyone who might be experiencing grief for the first time?

SPEAKER_02 40:35

Honestly, you you just have to, I think I said this earlier, but you gotta figure out your relationship with the grief and you have to ride the wave. Like it's it's almost like if you're in the ocean and like a strong wave comes, if you're like flailing around and you're trying to get out of it, you can't, you're gonna die. You're gonna literally be drowned in that, right? So, but if you just relax and you just ride the wave of that grief, then somehow, somehow, at some time, the waves just get a little bit calmer. You're still in it, you're still in the you're still in the ocean of grief. Like you're not getting out, but you can write it.

SPEAKER_04 41:15

That's beautiful. Do you have anything else that you want to share with our listeners? Anything else that you want to say? And I'm gonna have you plug yourself at the end to talk about the album and all of that. But I'm just so grateful that you took the time to sort of be here and talk about your dad. My extended family has known your family for really a long time, which is something we discovered like much later as adults, which is like it's a very Abishakoded of us. Yeah, so my uncle and your dad, I think were way back.

SPEAKER_02 41:40

My mom, my dad, my mom and dad, yeah. Um, with and Gashimana go way, way, way back. Like, I think I've talked about this before, but Gashimana would like hold me like this as a baby in one hand and just be like moving around.

SPEAKER_04 41:52

So yeah, so I feel like we've our families have known each other for so long, and I did not have the opportunity to get to meet your dad, as far as I know. You know, their trips to Ethiopia, I don't remember because I was so young. So who knows if we came across each other, but I feel so lucky to get to hear from all these people talk about their dads because I'm someone who's peak epitome of a daddy's girl. Like I will like be up under him 24-7. Like, I'm he's the reason I know how to mow a lawn, change a tire, and change my oil. Cause I'm like, I want to be with daddy and I want to learn these things. And I think it's such a gift to be able to tell have people share about their dads with us. And so I know your dad would be proud of you. I know he is proud of you, and that he continues to make himself known to you, which is so incredible.

SPEAKER_00 42:31

I know your dad is proud of you too. And look, they're probably watching us right now. They're chilling, staring at each other. Yeah. Like, our show is on. Our show is on.

SPEAKER_04 42:40

Our show is on. Let's see what the girls are gonna talk about today.

SPEAKER_02 42:43

But tell the people about your album where they can find it. Yeah, so my album, uh Uncovering Me is available on all streaming platforms. And you can follow me on all platforms at Debbie Alamru. It's D-E-B-B-I-E A-L-A-M-R-E-W. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 42:58

Thank you, Debbie. And I will say one last thing I remember that you said, and I think we'll close on this, is that you called grief an inconvenience. Yeah. Yeah. And it is. It is. It it is. And I have to also think about how many of my inconveniences in my life have been really important or necessary. What do they call it? Burnt toast theory. Like if I if my toast hadn't burnt that morning, then maybe I would have gotten in the car 10 minutes earlier, but there was an accident on the highway. How would I have been in that accident had that inconvenience not happened to me? And so I when you think about grief as an inconvenience, it's one of those things where you have to maybe think of it as an inconvenience, like a necessary inconvenience in life, as much as you hate it and you don't want it to be there. But yeah. I'm trying to try to put positive, positive spin on anything that I can. I'm so grateful to you, Debbie. Thank you so much for coming out here and chatting with me and telling me about your incredible dad. I appreciate you making the space. Of course. I love it. Um, thank you all for listening to another episode of The Dead Dads Club. You can find us here maybe. Maybe every week, maybe even two weeks. I haven't really decided yet, guys. There's no plan here. I'm just steering this shit by myself. Check us out on all platforms it's Dead Dads Club with an S at the end. It's with a Z in the email, though. If you want to send us an email, it's dead dads d A D Z Club at gmail.com. We'll be opening up a space where people can write in about their dads. If you're unable to come on the pod, but or you don't want to, but you want me to talk about your dad, I'm more than happy to do that as well. So come check us out at the dad dad club D D C pod. We'll be here until next time. Thanks a lot. Bye. The Dead Dads Club Podcast is hosted, edited, and produced by me, Maya Dowie. You can find us anywhere podcasts are available. Check us out on Instagram at D D C Pod. Want to send us a message? Hit us up at deaddadsclub at gmail.com. That's D-E-A-D-A-D-Z-C-U-L at gmail.com. We'll see you next time.