A Life Abroad: Retiring Overseas with Jennifer Harper

What if your retirement dollars could stretch further and your days could slow down, without shrinking your life? In this episode, Ruth sits down with certified financial planner and expat Jennifer Harper, who now lives and works in Portugal, to unpack what living abroad really looks like beyond the glossy highlight reels: visas, housing requirements, healthcare, taxes, currency swings, travel costs, and the patience it takes when the process does not move on your timeline. Together, they talk through the human side too, what you miss, what you gain, how to build community, and the questions to ask before you leap, including how to plan for emergencies and protect your loved ones with the right documents. You will walk away with a clearer view of the tradeoffs, and a grounded sense of what it takes to design a life you enjoy, not just a budget you can afford.

About the Guest: Jennifer Harper

Jennifer Harper is a Certified Financial Planner and the founder, principal, and chief compliance officer of A Bridge Financial Planning. She began her career in financial services in 2000, earned her CFP designation in 2006, completed advanced training through the Kinder Institute of Life Planning, and has taught small business finance as an adjunct instructor at the University of Tennessee at Chattanooga. With a deep commitment to financial education and advocacy for women, Jennifer brings both professional expertise and lived experience to this conversation, having relocated to Portugal and navigated the practical realities of working, building community, and planning across borders.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Welcome back to Beyond 60 Unscripted. This is the show where we have honest conversations about what is really what it really means to live fully in this season of life. I'm Ruth Williams Brinkley and I am your host. Today's episode is about something that is really exciting to me, and I can't wait to get into it. Today we're going to talk about people who want to think about living abroad or out of the outside of the U.S. And we also want to know and talk about why more and more people are considering living abroad, especially with the cost of living rising at home. For some people, retiring in another country can mean more affordability, it can mean more access to health care, a slower pace, it can mean a lot of things. For others, it may just be more complicated than it looks. The goal today is not to sell a particular point of view or to sell a fantasy. It is to explore the reality, the benefits, and the questions that you should ask before you make a move, especially if you are beyond 60. So, our guest today, and I am so excited to have her, we're being joined by Jennifer Harper. Jennifer is a certified financial planner, and we all want to have our financial planners close to us, and the founder, principal, and chief compliance officer of Bridge Financial Planning. Jennifer began her career in financial services in 2000. She earned her CFP, a certified financial planner designation in 2006, and completed advanced training at the Kinder Institute of Life Planning. Jennifer has also taught small business finance as an adjunct instructor at the University of Tennessee at Chattanooga, and she has a deep commitment to financial education and especially advocacy for women. And here is why Jennifer is the perfect person for this conversation. She has lived and worked in Portugal, and she also supports clients who are thinking seriously about what it means to live, work, and retire abroad. Jennifer, welcome. I am so glad you are here with us today. I am just delighted.

SPEAKER_01 2:37

Well, thank you so much. It's a pleasure to be here.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

So before we jump into the logistics, I want to start with the human side, Jennifer. So let's start with what surprised you most when you moved abroad? What didn't you expect until you were living abroad?

SPEAKER_01 2:58

I think there's so many things that we think we know, or all the research and spreadsheets and time frames that we put together. But I don't think anything really prepares you for being in a new place, around new things, different language, different food, different customs. There's a richness to the experiences that's not able to be experienced ahead of time. And so I think I think one thing I would say is maybe everything and nothing changes. You know, your your day-to-day life has to continue. You know, you still need to go to the dentist and you still need to go to the grocery and you still have to do laundry and dishes every day. Um no, you still have to do those things. Unfortunately, you do. They they don't disappear. I wish they did. But in addition to that, all those things stay the same, but everything else changes. So traffic signs, the menus on at a restaurant, like, where do you find a good hamburger? You know, absolutely everything else is is very different. So I think that's the thing that my husband and I talk about sometimes. It's like, what would you go back and tell yourself from five years ago? He's like, oh gosh, there's there's no way.

SPEAKER_00 4:21

So wow. So so so, Jennifer, what does a normal week look like for you in Portugal? Just a highlight of a normal week. All those things you talked about. I know you do all those things you talked about, but what does that look like? Do you drive? Do you take public transportation? How do you get around? All of that stuff.

SPEAKER_01 4:43

In terms of public transportation, we do both. Um we're lucky enough to live very close to a lot of public transportation lines that and we lived here for over two years without a car. We did uh wind up purchasing a car, and we did it because we like to spend a lot of time on trails and hiking and exploring. And while we live on the outskirts of Lisbon, there's a lot of Portugal that we love that isn't as accessible. It is accessible by public transport, but it's not as time convenient. Okay. So we wanted to be able to explore more, but for us it's an either-or. In terms of what does a typical week look like? I'll start with a work week because most of the work week looks pretty similar. I still work on Eastern time zone. So what that means is my day is flop, flip-flop. So I have my days, I have my time off in the mornings. And then after lunch, maybe around 1.30 or so Portugal time, I go to work and I get off work at 10 p.m. And that corresponds to about 8:30 a.m. to 5 p.m. Eastern time. And so uh mornings are often spent. One of my very, very favorite things about moving here is I no longer set an alarm clock. So I get I get up whenever I want to get up. It's a wonderful thing, but I get up, have breakfast with my husband. We usually will either go for a walk or run or or go to the gym, do something active, get outside as much as possible, and then come back, cook lunch, go to work. So that's pretty much through the week, which is nice. And then on the weekends, we do have some of those errands to do, like going to the grocery, those sorts of things. But we always try to get to a different part of town than where we live. And I see we have our favorite, we have our favorites. Yeah. Um, but we we might drive up the coast, we might go into the city, we might go down to a beach about 30 minutes away and go harvest some mussels and cook them up for dinner. Yeah, it could be anything.

SPEAKER_00 6:56

Wow. What, if anything, do you miss about the US? What is there one or are there one or two things that you miss?

SPEAKER_01 7:05

I think that I may have mentioned this to you before the podcast, but before moving here, I never lived anywhere other than my hometown, Chattanooga, Tennessee. You did. And so to me, the US is uh, you know, strongly tied to my experiences in Chattanooga.

SPEAKER_02 7:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:26

And because I lived there all my life prior to this, everything's just very convenient. I know it. I you know, if you need if you need something kind of obscure, you know who to talk to, or you know who to ask or where to go. And so that that level of convenience or just familiarity, uh-huh. Uh it's something that you don't walk into. It's something that's built in over time. And of course, family and friends, and and that's a big piece that you don't get to experience in the same way. I have a great opportunity to stay in touch with people thanks to technology.

SPEAKER_02 8:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:08

But I still agree and a difference between that and sitting across from one over one another.

SPEAKER_00 8:14

So yeah, you just can't get in the car and visit somebody. Not in China. Not in China. But yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:23

The fun small things are like my favorite hair products or makeup. Not all the same brands are available here. And so, you know, I don't bring back so much from the US anymore. I've found those things that I like here. But when I go back to the US, I do pick up a few of my favorite little things.

SPEAKER_00 8:45

Okay. Okay. Well, let's get into, I'm going to get into the bigger picture now. So we have something called the Beyond 60 Buzz, where we bring in a timely story that shapes the way people are thinking about life beyond 60. Um, Investorpedia reported that 34%, 34% of Americans said they are open to moving to another country for a lower cost of living. That number says a lot about how many people are rethinking what retirement means and what it looks like. So that's an important thing. Affordability is the biggest consideration, but lifestyle is also what makes the decision. So the article in Investopedia notes that many international destinations promise affordability, they promise cheaper health care and a slower pace, but it also warns that the movie is not as simple as packing a suitcase. The move is not as uh simple as packing a suitcase, and we're going to dig into that with you. Some of the big checklist items that people underestimate are you need to weigh visa rules, health care access, banking restrictions and access, and cultural fit. And money still matters across borders. The article highlights that U.S. citizens are still taxed if you keep your citizenship. And we're going to dig into that a little bit. You and I talked about that before we got on the podcast. You still tax in the U.S. on your worldwide income. And planning is really important to avoid double taxation issues. So the moral of the story is try before you leap. Investopedia recommends a trial stay and joining expat communities to avoid expensive mistakes. We're going to get into that with you, some of that with you, Jennifer. Tell our audience a little bit about yourself and how you came to live in Portugal. Now, let me just say, from a personal standpoint, I know the city that Jennifer's from. I lived there for a long time. It's one of my favorite places. And while I'm from a rural area in Georgia, Jennifer, Chattanooga is a fairly good-sized city. I just want to know what was the moment you realized you were serious about going and what was the hardest part in all that stuff? What was the most rewarding part? All of that.

SPEAKER_01 11:08

So I guess I'll back up and say my husband's 10 years older than me. And we've been together 28 years this year. And so we got the same. Thank you. Um, we've talked a long time about what retirement would look like for us. Because on one for us personally, if I wait until I'm 65, then he would be 75. Are we going to be able to still do all the things we want to do? So I think we've always planned financially for me to be able to retire a little bit earlier than a standard retirement date, so that we still have those retirement years together to do the things we want to do.

SPEAKER_00 11:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:50

And so we had always talked about that this was something we would do in retirement. And during COVID, the office suite that I had in downtown Chattanooga, in fact, that was six years ago today. We went home after the national emergency was declared. And I remember telling my coworker or my yeah, my coworker that, yeah, take your laptop home. I'll see you. Yeah, this'll this will blow over in a little bit. We'll see you soon. We all thought that I think. Right, exactly. Um, and then even when we opened our office back up, a lot of clients had seen the convenience of virtual meetings or from a scheduling standpoint or childcare standpoint, they had become a lot more comfortable with online. And so that put a little bug in our ear about huh, I wonder if something like this would be possible before I retire. And during that time, my husband also took an early retirement package from his employer. So he is now retired. So it was really just me that we had to worry about working. So it opened up a lot of possibilities. And when we considered it, we were thinking about time zones, we were thinking about visas, cost of living, all of those things that you mentioned from the Investigia article, they are real things to consider. We were looking for a good climate. Neither of us enjoy very cold winters. Uh so you know, Western has a very Mediterranean climate. Yes. So we looked at things like political stability or just travel, you know, like where are the air connections, how many air connections, how easy would it be to get back home when we wanted to? And we did. We did do a little test case uh where we came over here for a little over a month and tried it out. And both of us were really happy with what we found. And so then we went back home to Chattanooga and spent about a year planning it out. And the visa application takes a long time in terms of expenses. This is where I would say a lot of people jump on board watching something from Instagram, say, oh, look at this. I just had this three-course meal for this inexpensive amount of money. And those opportunities are there and not just in Portugal, they're they're there in a lot of different places around the world. But the other part of it is the US dollar has lost 15 plus percent against the euro over the last year. It's the one of the largest US dollar declines in the last 50 years. So for us, when we're transferring money from the US into Euros to spend it here for rent or you know, whatever else we're doing, it's 15% more today than it was a year ago. Okay. So you need to understand that you still need flexibility in your budget. Like all of the problems don't go away, and the the value of the dollar isn't sick. So I think that's something to consider with the visa program. It's different every country. This is something I really want to emphasize in this uh podcast is I'm sharing my experience here, but it is very different even in Spain, next door neighbor. Um very different experience. So for us to apply for the visa, we had to prove that we had 12 months of lease or have purchased a property before.

SPEAKER_00 15:35

That's what I was gonna yeah, I was gonna ask you about that. Those go go go ahead. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you.

SPEAKER_01 15:41

Oh no, and so we had to you know lease this apartment to apply for the visa, which means we had to lease it several months before we even knew if we would be approved. Now we had gone through all the requirements, had a pretty good sense that we were going to you know sit the approval process, but you're putting a lot of money on the line before you ever get a commitment.

SPEAKER_00 16:08

And so would that have been refundable, Jennifer? Had you not been able to do that?

SPEAKER_01 16:11

No, no, really, you sign a lease. Oh, that's you sign a lease, yeah, and you are uh you are on the hook. Okay, you know, so the day-to-day cost of living may be a nice change from some cities in the in the US, but then you add travel costs, which you know, just over the last couple of weeks, travel to Europe has gotten a lot more expensive due to the price of oil. So, you know, if you think you know what it's gonna cost to go back and forth home, that might change. So you have to have the flexibility built into your plan to make sure that you're not taken off guard.

SPEAKER_00 16:52

Now, in addition to one question, I have in addition to the 12-month lease you had to sign, did they did uh were you required to have a certain amount of money beyond that to support yourself for some period of time?

SPEAKER_01 17:05

And I know every country is different, but but right you are required to have a number of exactly yeah, there is a requirement, and you know, you needed a Portuguese bank account with X number of euros available, and and what they're doing, and this is what most countries do, they want to make sure that if they give you a visa to reside there with a residency permit, that you're not going to be a drain on their system, right? And so we needed to prove that we had private health and health care insurance, which by the way is much, much less expensive than the United States. Um but we, you know, we needed to have a private insurance carrier here in Portugal. We needed to have a bank account with a certain amount of money, we needed to have the lease, you needed to have a background check, uh, you needed to do a lot of things, you know, to prove to them that that you are going to be a good resident.

SPEAKER_00 18:03

Okay. Now, minute, wow. Was there just was there anything that surprised you uh that you had to learn the hard way?

SPEAKER_01 18:14

Well, here's one. So your first residency permit here is good for two years, and then you can apply for your second residency permit, which can be good for three years. And my first residency appointment permit expired in January of 2025. Huh. Because of Portuguese immigration, it's been a very popular place to come for a long time. Yeah they're over, they were overloaded. Um, and I didn't get an appointment to renew my permit until August. So that was seven months of having an expired permit where I couldn't travel to other European countries because my permit in Portugal is expired. Now, Portugal, their government wrote a law that said that we understand we're backlogged. We're going to extend the renewal dates of these permits through this date to make sure we have time to get through the backlog. But that meant that I could go back to the US and come to Portugal, or I could go to non-Schengen zone countries. So with the non-Schengen zone countries, I could have traveled, but between business travel back to the US, I also need to take account into account the requirements for time in country. So most countries are going to say, hey, if you're applying to live here, we want to make sure that you're actually living here. You can't just get a residence permit and then go gallivanting around the world and never actually be where you want to reside. So I also have to watch the time out of country to make sure that I'm I'm abiding by that. So just today, after 15 months, the mailman came today with my renewal of my residency permit. So when you say what are you? Wait a minute, this is since January of 2025. So oh my gosh, oh my gosh. So I had my renewal appointment with their immigration services last August. I was notified in January that I was approved, and then I actually got the card in March. So these are the kinds of things that I think happen in a lot of countries where you think, okay, if I follow the rules, everything's gonna happen on time, everything's gonna happen easily on schedule. You better be flexible if you're not okay with that kind of uncertainty. Uh, if you want answers to everything, it's gonna be a very uncomfortable process.

SPEAKER_00 21:09

Oh my. This is I we hadn't talked about that before. About value. Oh my, that is good. But I am celebrating today.

SPEAKER_01 21:19

Yes. Yes, I am celebrating today.

SPEAKER_00 21:22

Yeah. I am I am impressed with your resilience and all that you have done. So let's talk about a little bit about retirement. People who are getting ready to retire. What should they be thinking about? And what kinds of things that, in addition to what you said, uh, should retired people be thinking about?

SPEAKER_01 21:46

A lot of this is applicable to anyone, but especially for retired people, I think it's important to understand how different kinds of retirement income might be taxed by. The new country. And here's where I will make a big claim. All of our clients are in the United States. I don't do cross-border planning because this experience has told me just how complicated it can be and just how specialized that advice needs to be country to country. So that is not something I do in my practice. I'm just sharing from my personal experience what some of the hangups or questions I would ask ahead of time. You know, the US has very standard ideas of how dividends and interest and IRA distributions and social security income and all those different forms of income and how they are taxed, that doesn't mean that some other country understands what an IRA is, or even better, a Roth IRA. So you may very well want to understand by hiring an accountant, hiring an attorney ahead of time to say, if I were to do this, how does this other country treat different kinds of incomes? Because just because you know the US roles doesn't mean you know the roles of the country you're going to. And it would be very important to crunch the numbers on that before you leave.

SPEAKER_00 23:21

No, that's something I I mean, I've never lived abroad, but that is something I would have never thought about. So financial is a pillar that that people should really pay attention to. Yes. And health and making sure they not only have health care, that I was going to go there next. Talk a little bit about healthcare.

SPEAKER_01 23:41

Um well, we all know the United States is probably one of the few, if not the only, you know, really highly developed country that doesn't conform to a more typical worldwide healthcare program. We're kind of out on our own in terms of how we we do healthcare. So most other countries have a different way of approaching healthcare. And most of that is a single payer government sponsored program that is funded through taxes. Just kind of a fun thought. Add all of your health care expenses, including your healthcare premiums, to your tax bill. And what would your tax rate be? Um, yeah, a lot of different countries they'll require you as a resident to have a separate private policy, like I've mentioned. But I know at least here in Portugal, once you are a resident, you are entitled to the government-sponsored healthcare system. Um and that can be now.

SPEAKER_00 24:41

Does that mean you pay into the tax? Sure. Does that mean you pay taxes to get that?

SPEAKER_01 24:46

Okay. All right. So um this is another thing. Like Portugal had when we joined, when we became residents here, um they had one tax program that kind of eased you into their tax program over a period of time. Even since we've been here, that program has changed. So this is a moving target worldwide. Countries are reevaluating how much they want new immigration, or are they getting too much immigration? So they can change those policies to put on the gas or put on the break. So it is a moving target and something to understand that can change while you're in the process.

SPEAKER_00 25:27

But and so if you're if you're older and on Medicare, that does not count. Medicare and yeah, Medicare has very limited pro receiving care outside of the US.

SPEAKER_01 25:39

Okay, Medicare has very limited provisions for care outside of the United States. So that's important to know. Um and yeah, I can tell you from personal experience again, just here in Portugal, my husband and I have unfortunately had a few more health issues here than we typically did in the US, and the care and level of services and professionalism and everything has been top-notch. We've been very happy.

SPEAKER_00 26:10

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 26:10

But it is a consideration. But beyond the practicalities, which I would say finances and healthcare, I would say connections. Like, who are the people in your lives that you're going to miss seeing day to day? How are you going to keep up those relationships? How are you going to build your community in the new environment that you're in? A lot of countries do have very strong expat communities that you can plug into. Um, I will say too, I think my personal opinion is if you plug into an expat community and don't plug into the native community, you're probably doing yourself a disservice because you move there for the culture and the richness and the history. Right. Right. And if you just come and put yourself in a bubble of all the things you're already comfortable with, you might not be getting all the experiences you were hoping for. So I think it can be a good part of support and knowledge. Like I know there's a group of Americans here that we share information about the permit process or things we've learned, and it's very valuable. But I don't want to limit my ability to get into the community and and get to know my neighbor. Um, you know, so I think that's important too.

SPEAKER_00 27:34

Yeah. So for yeah, especially for older people. And if you're single as an older person, you know, you don't want to be isolated. I are there many single older Americans that you aware of there in Lisbon. There are.

SPEAKER_01 27:49

Yeah, I think there are. And I think anyone, you know, anyone can decide for themselves how adventurous you are and how you know how upward you are. And you probably know yourself better than anyone else. Some of the practicalities would be like if you're looking for an apartment or a home, is it on a steep hill? I know here in Lisbon, it's a very hilly city, and the sidewalks are hand-chiseled stones called calzadash that are very beautiful, they have wonderful patterns built into them. But the minute it rains, they are split as ice. Are you going to be, you know, walking up a steep hill or down a steep hill? Are you going to be near a rail, you know, near a rail station or bus station? Um, there is no such thing as Americans with Disabilities Act in Europe with all these old beautiful buildings.

SPEAKER_00 28:44

I know with the travel I've done, you're right. They are not accessible, many of them.

SPEAKER_01 28:49

And I think older ones. And I think Lesbon has done a wonderful job. I find, you know, the wheelchair lifts at staircases into a building, those are more and more common. But there's literally no way you can retrofit some of these buildings. Uh, very narrow, steep staircases. So be very aware when you're choosing where to live. The building we're in right now doesn't have an elevator. So that's fine while we're healthy, but I've already been thinking that's going to be something probably where we choose to be next. That might not be something we're okay with again. So practicalities as as you age, you have to be a little bit more careful or or conscientious about where you know, where you want to be and how convenient what you want things to be.

SPEAKER_00 29:47

What about social security? Before we, I want to, I want what last question about finances. What do how do people how should people think about handling their social security payments? After that, I want to move a little bit more to the back to the social life. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 30:05

We're not on social security yet, but I know a lot of people are. And the most common way, I'm not saying that this is the only way, but the most common way that I hear is that someone keeps a bank account open in the United States, and then they have a bank account open here, and there's services where you can convert dollars to euros and transfer money from the US to your European bank. And so what most people do is have their social security check deposited into their US account, and then they go through the transfer process to transfer it and convert it into whatever currency you would be in.

SPEAKER_00 30:50

Okay. You've just been a wealth of information. Now, I want to talk a little bit, a transition from money and social to planning for difficult moments. As you get older, you're going to have difficult moments. And we don't like to think about that, but it it does matter. How should older adults be thinking about plans for illness, for emergencies, and even death while living abroad? This because they do happen, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_01 31:22

Yes, that's true. And that's just something just recently we've learned a little bit more about how things are handled here. And again, this is something that can change country to country. So don't take this as gospel for everywhere. Yep. But here, you know, it's a culture that really does prioritize family. And the way that works in the estate planning world is it prioritizes blood over marriage. For example, if we don't have a will in place and my husband passed away, the joint bank account that we have, his half, I would keep my half, his half may very well go to his sister rather than to me. Unless we have a will in place to that says otherwise. So I think it's very, very important to understand that what you think you know about how things work from an estate planning standpoint, it's a you're not living under the same rules. You're not living under the same laws, the same constitution. Yeah, you are changing everything about what you think you know about how things work. And the only other thing I will say about finances before we move off this is the US is is one of maybe two or three countries in the world that taxes their citizens on worldwide income. And you've mentioned that. So there's a common question mark for people about residency versus citizenship.

SPEAKER_02 32:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:58

The country that you're moving to, it's usually a very long process to become a citizen. And not every country will allow dual citizenship. So Portugal is one country that does allow dual citizenship, but we're not eligible yet. It'll be a few more years before we're eligible to apply for that. We can either apply for permanent residency or dual citizenship. You don't have to become a citizen. You can just say, I want to live here permanently, but remain a citizen of the United States without becoming a citizen of Portugal. So citizenship is different than residency, but as long as you are a US citizen, you will be taxed from the US on your worldwide income. And then how that plays into other countries depends on the treaties and the tax policies of that other country.

SPEAKER_00 33:52

Okay, so it's it's complicated, really. It's not it's not doable, but it is you need someone to guide you through the process. At the at the top of our discussion, you talked about getting an attorney or somebody to guide you because there's no way you could figure, at least I wouldn't be able to figure out all this on my own. Right. Yeah. And these are just questions that ahead of time. Yeah. Yeah. Now you talked about having an estate plan, a will, and all of that stuff. So again, talking about people who are older, where should they keep those documents? Should they keep them with them at home or copies in both places? Uh do you have a well some advice about that or thoughts about that?

SPEAKER_01 34:39

Here's a funny answer. I know what the answer is for the United States. I don't know necessarily what that answer is anywhere else. So for US, this is practical for anyone. If you have a will or powers of attorney, all those documents, you should keep a copy of, or I'm sorry, you should keep an original copy easily accessible. It might be a fireproof safe, just make sure somebody has the code to it. Um usually estate planning attorneys will keep a file in their office and make sure that that, but the main thing is let your family or or trusted contact know where it is and how to get to it, because that power of attorney or will or trust document doesn't do anybody any good if they don't know it's there.

SPEAKER_00 35:34

Yeah, you have to just we we've read some instances about that in the paper of some famous people who didn't add them and no one knew where they were.

SPEAKER_01 35:43

Yeah. And yeah, and also a lot of people think a safe deposit box is a good idea, but a safe deposit box is often very difficult for anyone but the people on the safe deposit box to get it.

SPEAKER_00 35:57

Really?

SPEAKER_01 35:57

Unless that trusted contact or family member has a key and is on the name of the bank, they're not going to get to it. So we actually don't recommend safe deposit boxes for that reason.

SPEAKER_00 36:10

Okay, all right. That that is good to know. So what how do you keep you you're not beyond 60, but you have customers and clients beyond 60? How should people plan on staying in touch? What should families be talking about before someone moves? And maybe it it counts for people who aren't 60 as well, but what should people what kinds of conversations should people be having with their families uh before they leave? How often are you going to visit? You know, how or how you mean the person coming back home? Coming back to the US?

SPEAKER_01 36:48

It could be either or. Will the family be okay? Will the family be visiting in the new location? A lot of times people like to see where you are and understand where it could be one direction or the other. Uh, but how frequently are you going to visit one another? What do holidays look like? What do birthdays look like? How are you going to find ways to celebrate when it might not mean being in person in the same way that maybe the traditions have been?

SPEAKER_00 37:18

Yeah. Is it, I can imagine, it's kind of people are ambivalent. It's like I I know some people that live in another country and it's they have had visits, they come back to the US most often, but it's an adventure and it's also real life. Like you said, everything changes and nothing changes. So that's a good way to describe it. Is there one thing that you know now that you wish you had known before you moved?

SPEAKER_01 37:49

I think it's a hard thing to answer because I think it's just the enormity of it all. I think I would go back and say, like, I'm really proud of myself for taking the leap. I'm really proud of myself for taking the chance and taking the opportunity and going for an adventure. But I don't know that there's one thing that you could go back and say or do that um there's no way to there's no way to encapsulate it all. You're just gonna you're just gonna go on another, you're just you're gonna go on this big adventure and a lot of things you're gonna love and it's gonna be an amazing experience, but you're gonna learn new levels of patience and and a new appreciation for being okay with what you don't know.

SPEAKER_02 38:38

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 38:40

That's I'll have to ponder that one. So it's okay it's okay to not know everything and to just be okay with that.

SPEAKER_01 38:48

And I think for people who are career driven or or very it's hard for us to not be not know. Like we we we want a spreadsheet, we want to know the date, we want to know how things are gonna work out. And and so we do maybe maybe this is exactly what I needed to round myself out. Oh, that is funny.

SPEAKER_00 39:10

These type A's and B plus plus pluses. So okay, Jennifer, is there anything else that we didn't talk about today that you'd like to share with our audience?

SPEAKER_01 39:20

I would just say you're probably capable of a lot more than you realize in every aspect of your life, and you don't know until you try. And maybe you try it and it's not what you thought, and you and that's okay. But I think those trial runs, those you know, take a month or two and go try it out is a great way to find it out. And I heard, I think, I think it might have been David Bowie. I just watched something from him the other day, and he said, think about being in a swimming pool. If you go in the shallow end, your feet are still on the ground, you're not pushing yourself enough. You you know, to get the real best out of yourself, you need to go just beyond where your toes can touch the bottom of this of the pool. And I think that's a really good metaphor for anything, whether you're moving abroad or trying anything new, it's go a little bit further than you think you can. And if you reach a limit, that's okay. But if you don't ever push that limit, you'll never know what you're capable of.

SPEAKER_00 40:35

So it was just such a joy to talk with Jennifer Harper today, and she laid out all of the steps that it takes to move abroad. But you know what? It takes a lot of work to move from state to state or city to city. I have one friend who told me it doesn't matter if you're moving next door or moving across the world. It takes a certain amount of energy. So I want to just remind us that it is easier to build a life you enjoy and not just a budget you can afford or not just to be afraid to take that net that next step. I have friends who are my age and I am beyond 60 who moved to another country and they are having a ball. They love it, they come back here periodically. I have single friends who have moved abroad and they are having a ball. So I would say while there are a lot of steps, the operative word here is plan, plan, plan, and don't be overcome or daunted by all the steps that are required because I think that people should live the life that they want to, and they want to, and all of us want to have a fulfilling life where we can say, you know what, we left it all out there. We didn't do any of the things, we did not do any of the things that we wanted to do. So now is the time for our silver lining, which is a just a small reflection and a practical tip to carry with you. Whether you stay in your hometown, move across the country, move to the next town, or whether you move across the world. Design a weekly rhythm that keeps you connected. One social anchor, one movement anchor, and one curiosity anchor. Remember, as Jennifer told us, everything changes and everything stays the same. You still have to do all the activities of daily living as we call them. Jennifer, I want to just thank you for your time with us again, for everything you have told me and told our audience about what it means to live abroad. And so I want everybody to be sure to follow beyond 60 and make sure that you see our next episode because we're going to have more juicy tidbits and more things for you to consider as we go beyond 60, beyond 70, beyond whatever age that you're living. And just remember, these are the best years of our lives. We have the wisdom, we have the experience, we have the background. We know how to do this. So until next time, I'm signing off for Beyond 60 Unscripted.