"Seated Fashion" & Billboard Dreams | Why Inclusivity is Just Getting Started

We’re wrapping up March with our biggest conversation yet, diving deep into what it actually feels like to be behind the scenes of the fashion and cosmetic industry as models with disabilities and differences.

"It shouldn't be a bullet point; it should be the norm."

This week, Zara and Faith are wrapping up their deep dive into perceptions by looking at the world of fashion, beauty, and modeling. Faith shares the surreal (and nearly car-crash-inducing) moment she saw herself on a massive billboard in Manchester, while Zara talks about the "beauty-first" approach of her recent campaign with Refy.

We’re shouting out the brands that are actually listening, from the "Seated" sections on fashion websites to the tattoo-transfer eyebrows that changed Faith’s daily routine. We’re discussing why it's not enough to just have a wheelchair mannequin; we need accessible studios, inclusive directors, and a seat at the table (literally).

We also shout out the brands and creators actually doing the work:
ZBD Talent, Sophie Morgan, Primark, Gymshark
In Totem 
Refy Beauty 
Dmuse
Zaralena Cosmetics 

Follow us for more:
📸 Instagram: @sitdownwithuspod @faith_hiles @zaraborji
🎵 TikTok: @sitdownwithuspod

#DisabilityAwareness #Alopecia #ZaraAndFaith #WheelchairLife #Inclusion #RepresentationMatters #Podcast #ZebedeeModels

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hi, I'm Zara. And I'm Faith. And we would like you to sit down with us every Wednesday. Yay! Yay! Um, so as we're coming to the end of March, I know it's been a good month. We it's been a great month. I feel like we've had some great conversations, great reflective moments. And we're gonna have even great talks today. And before we get into that though, if this is your first time watching or listening, please remember to like, subscribe, add our podcast to your favourite podcasts on your list, and just let us know how you're finding it.

SPEAKER_01 0:37

Yeah, and also let us know what you want us to talk about. We've got a lot of things coming up in April of what you have already come to us that you want to talk about. So we're listening, we're ready.

SPEAKER_00 0:49

Keep the ideas coming.

SPEAKER_01 0:50

Keep them flowing. Because we're not going anywhere. No, we're here to stay. Yes, we are. So for this podcast, we are going to talk about their perceptions and stereotypes, but within fashion and cosmetics and within that industry.

SPEAKER_00 1:05

We're very excited for that because as you all know, we've mentioned previously, we are part of the industry ourselves. So obviously, I knew a thing or two before it, but now I can see it and appreciate it in a different manner as well, which is great.

SPEAKER_01 1:19

I think because we're now behind the scenes of it all, we really see how it all unfolds and what's actually happening behind the scenes and what people want. And a lot of the time it is authentic inclusivity. Like a lot of like so many brands are actually pushing for that and wanting that. And I think being part of Zebedee also really helps. Another shout out to Zebedee for Love Zebedee.

SPEAKER_00 1:38

We love Zebedee, and I feel like we're gonna sound like broken records to keep talking about Zebedee, but let's be real, if it wasn't for Zebedee, we wouldn't be a thing. No. So this was a so you're welcome. But yeah, uh see it.

SPEAKER_01 1:52

Maman blank. But I think the fashion and cosmetics industry has changed dramatically. I mean, we've all seen the 2016 trend go round this year, like looking back to how we did our makeup.

SPEAKER_00 2:03

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 2:04

Like dreadful, like block brows? Yeah, I was drawing on my brows with like a Primark pencil and it was horrific. Horrific. And that was a girl that didn't know how to draw her eyebrows on, who was losing eyebrows at the time.

SPEAKER_00 2:17

So yeah. But yeah, I'm I'm I'm loving the clean clean girl aesthetic. Oh, yeah, at the moment. I wonder if in like 10 years' time we'll look back at this and be like, what were you thinking?

SPEAKER_01 2:28

Yeah, but ever since Zara Larson, it's going back to like extra. Yeah, I've been on the. How's it been?

SPEAKER_00 2:35

No.

SPEAKER_01 2:35

How have you been? Have you not seen her tour and her makeup on tour?

SPEAKER_00 2:39

Oh, yes. I was like, for a minute, I was like, what's she done now?

SPEAKER_01 2:42

Yeah, like that's now becoming such a powerful thing. Not the smoky eye, I think that can stay back in 2016. I am partial to a smoky eye sometimes. Not as harsh as it was back then. Oh, yeah. But a little smoky eye is cute. Yeah. But yeah, Zara, it's all about colour and it's all, yeah, it's the gems, the jules, yeah. It's fun, isn't it? Highlighter. Yeah. But I feel like obviously if people get blush blindness now, we're gonna have highlight brightness, highlight blindness in like a year's time. It'd be like that was a lot.

SPEAKER_00 3:13

I personally feel like I do have blush blindness.

SPEAKER_01 3:15

Blush, I don't think so. Maybe not today, but usually I'm like I get highlighter blindness.

SPEAKER_00 3:21

I already consider it. I don't use highlighter. No, I'm I'm too oily. Maybe natural oil. Natural highlight. Which is not great sometimes. If if you've got oily skin, you know what I mean. This is it's not the best.

SPEAKER_01 3:33

But yeah, I'm always like a combination, I'm mixed I'm different every year. Like the year changes.

SPEAKER_00 3:39

It does depend on time of year as well, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_01 3:42

Um we'll talk about something a little bit that wasn't fashionable and was not supposed to be in the industry. It was a Britney Spears, not her as a person, but her bald head all those years ago. 2000, 2008? I think so. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:01

Everyone knows.

SPEAKER_01 4:02

Still talk about it to this day. I mean, I get it all the time. Did you have a Britney Spears moment? Yeah. No, because if I did, I'd be famous and I'd be singing. Like, no, I didn't have a Britney Spears moment.

SPEAKER_00 4:12

No, no.

SPEAKER_01 4:13

It's just the negative connotation. So if you don't know, Britney Spears at one point within her career, um, and there is a documentary and film about actually why it came about, but she ended up shaving her hair, and um I think to just taking some more control over her life, that and her look. I believe that's how that's why and what she did. But people took it as a Britney Spears moment and put a negative almost influence onto that phrase. As if like if you have a breakdown, you have a Britney Spears moment, hair's gone. Mm-hmm. And I think it's also come from stress, and people say that when you're stressed, you pull your hair out, and that causes hair loss when it's not entirely true, which we did speak about a few podcasts ago, and we will discuss a lot more um in terms of where alopecia actually come from and where how it happens. But no, I think people thinking that stress and hair pulling is craziness, no, it's it's not, it's it's really not. It's if it's hair pulling, which is trigotolomania, that is like a compulsion and an impulse. Almost it's the same thing as nail biting, skin picking, it's under the same kind of Sophia, but and then stress can cause hair loss, not normally the main factor, but it can cause hair loss, or be like the substitute factor to what's actually going on. And the Britney Spears moment was I think just highlighted a moment in time where bold wasn't cool, bold wasn't beautiful. Um, so that's how much the fashion industry has now changed, which is beautiful to see. Yeah. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:48

I mean, with me, one moment that literally brought tears to my eyes was when I was just randomly scrolling on Instagram on a random weekend, as you do, and I saw Sophie Morgan. I hope to God I've got this right, but I'm pretty sure her name's Sophie Morgan. And her basically being behind the Primarch um mannequin. I'm I'm literally just gonna be throwing words out there, my mind's gone blank. Basically, long story short, Primark has brought out a disabled slash wheelchair user, mannequin, and I believe Sophie Morgan was kind of behind that. Hello. And yeah, and honestly, basically, I was just scrolling and I saw this picture, and I was like, I at first I thought it was AI, I thought it was an AI mannequin. I was like, this would be cool. Because I've always said, like we've said in previous episodes, I would just love to see someone in the jeans and the top, and for it to look good, so I can see what it looks good, if it looks good on me. Yeah. And when I saw that, I was just like, this is great. Like I instantly was like, literally went to my nearest Primarch just to see it. Love that. I mean, but reality wasn't there at the time. It wasn't there at the time, it is now, but I I was too quick with it. It wasn't necessarily there on my yeah, but yeah, and as well as that, Gym Shark, and you guys know if you follow me on Instagram, I love my fitness. I love I mean, I'm not gonna call myself a fitness influencer, not at all. I I don't know the first thing, but I love to stay active, and I think I especially like it because a misconception about disabled people is that we just sit sit on our bums all day, no movement at all, and we can't do anything. And the fact that we're in a wheelchair means we're like fully paralysed, which is a myth that we've busted before, but I like to stay active, I like to push myself to a certain extent. Don't get me wrong, I will not be joining any hieroxes anytime soon, but if I did want to, I could, and that's the point, and yeah, so me being interested in kind of the gym wear and all that, and obviously Gymshark being one of the main brands of sportswear, and the fact that they've brought out wheelchair mannequins, and I believe amputees like amputee mannequins.

SPEAKER_01 8:20

Yeah, and that's that's that's actually in the traffic centre. Yeah, I swear it is, unless I've dreamt it. Yeah, but I swear there is much more of an ecology mix of mannequins now. 100% to show it's also to show that fitness is inclusive. Yeah. Like this also should be generalised to everyone, yeah. Not just for the one specific type of person. So even fitness influencers and fitness models have become much widespread and more.

SPEAKER_00 8:43

As we said, hierarchs, if you didn't know, there's hierarchs that's adapted to disable people. I didn't know that yet. Yeah, of course. And like again, if you didn't know, a wheelchair user can do a marathon. Obviously, not walking, like they're not gonna make a wheelchair user walk to do a marathon, but like a wheelchair user in their wheelchair can do a marathon.

SPEAKER_01 9:04

I think people when it comes to fitness, they forget Paralympics as a thing. Yeah. Like, come on now, you can't have a myth that people that are disabled are lazy because there's literal Paralympians showing you that it's it's possible. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:18

Yeah. Like, as much as not every like able-bodied person is an athlete, there is obviously going to be some disabled people aren't Paralympians, but it is possible, it's out there. But yeah, it's cool. I I just thought, shout out to those two brands, and if you ever want to work with me, please, please do because I actually love that. And it just it was like really, it really hit home, and it's just yeah, it means a lot. Just to like see that representation. Like, even if I wasn't thinking about even if what they're selling doesn't necessarily apply to me, just seeing that representation is really pure. Yeah. It's just it's just it's normalized.

SPEAKER_01 9:59

Yeah, and that's what we're here to do. And needed as well. It inspires you as someone that can then identify. Yes. Because like one big push for me to accept my alopecia was following people online that look like me. So if you are then just out and about shopping, doing your thing, or even just scrolling, we all do it, you know, as much as we did do like a month ago with self-love and digital detox. We all do scrolls still. Still do both, yes, in moderation. So if you are scrolling, you see someone that looks like you, it's so inspiring to know that you know what you're not on your own. No, you're not in your own bubble. You've there's other people that look like you and are like you and act like you and have the same issues and problems as you. And so when you see that on a more, I don't know, comp competitive scene, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:40

And global scene. And as much as like obviously that's not gonna be a cure to your disability, it's just it's there and it's like it normalizes it, but like normalises it in a way that like it's okay, like you are disabled, but the world is inclusive for everyone. You're not in a world made for able-bodied people, yeah, which I think is a great message that I personally take from something like that.

SPEAKER_01 11:08

I think as well, fashion. Um, one of my first modelling gigs with Zebedee was with the Trafford Centre, and it was for their autumn-winter fashion campaign, and I thought it was very authentic and very true to I guess Manchester as well, because they got people that were all different, every single one of us was different from ethnicity to religion to disability to physical differences. It was incredible. The shoot all walks of life were there, and we're actually getting someone from that shoot on next week, which is very exciting.

SPEAKER_00 11:45

Yes, great month come in, guys.

SPEAKER_01 11:48

Yes, and um but I just thought if 10-year-old me saw like bald me on a billboard, which by the way, I was on a billboard, what the hell? That was crazy. This is another story, I'll tangent back to that. But I was driving into Manchester, I think I was going to I don't know, someone's house to film something or little Lydia Glocks for a charity event. And I was driving on Mancunyan Way at the end, and there's a billboard. So I saw myself on that billboard, nearly caused a car crash. Oh, I didn't know I did not know what I was to do with myself. I wanted to stop. Did you not know you were gonna be on there? No, I wanted to stop and take a photo, and I was like, I need to ignore it and keep driving or I'm gonna cause a crash. Like it was fun when he was on the shower. I know it was incredible to see that. But even as someone that I knew I'd done that shoot, but just to see it on a billboard, not just myself, but so many other people and imagine how anyone else, like maybe a child with anaphytia, would feel having seen that. Yeah, well, that's what I was gonna say. If I was 10 years old to get in it, I saw a bold model or a bold person on a bold woman on a on a screen on a billboard, that would massively have changed my perception from what the doctor told me. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, you know, telling me to hide myself, bold isn't beautiful, to then seeing that in a fashion industry, which is very cutthroat, very hard to get into, and it's also more probably more competitive than anything I would ever have known. So incredible. But that experience really showed me how much inclusivity is needed in fashion to change people's perception of who the clothes are made for.

SPEAKER_00 13:23

Like, as much as it's great that we talked about the m wheelchair user mannequins and all that, now there needs to be one more step with actual wheelchair user models or people with differences as models. Yeah. And I think that's a big conversation that I I'm gonna say not necessarily every director out there is ready for. No. And I just think, as we've probably mentioned before, um, it's just easier. Like an able-body person, it's just easier. For example, if I go into a studio, they need to think about an accessible toilet for me, they need to think about a step-free access. And these things are as someone who's able-bodied, you might not necessarily want to think about. But as someone who is a director, they need to think about those things. And it's just I'm not gonna say it, like extra cost for them. And as sad as that is, that's what it is. But we need to get to a position where that's it's a norm.

SPEAKER_01 14:22

Yeah, it should it shouldn't be uh like something to think about, it shouldn't be a bullet point, it should just be the norm. Um, yeah, 100%. I think I really want to see this more in the fashion weeks. Yes. Because I think fashion weeks are so artistic, as much as it is about the fashion, it's so much about the art and their craft and the creativity, and you see all the time the actual designers using the models to showcase their look even more. And I think you know, I've seen it with um models with Vertiligo, they've um they've they've really used their you know their difference, yeah, their difference to show how beautiful they are through their clothing. Yeah, and I think it's done as well. Another model that came from America's Next Top Model, I think her name's Jenna, she had alopecia, she went on in a wig, they actually decided to they almost helped her overcome, not overcome the alopecia, but accept that her boldness is beautiful. Not sure whether because of America's text top model, whether she was ready for it at the time, but she is now a bold model now, and she does she does go bold and with wigs now when she models, but seeing her as I think that was quite I was quite young at that time, but and that was a big thing for me, seeing that so young as well, and how actually boldness is beautiful. And continuing from fashion, especially fashion week, I am sure it was this brand or this brand anyway, I think are absolutely incredible. I haven't seen a brand like this before. They are called In Totem. I'm gonna link them down below, and please go check them out because they are an all-inclusive adaptive fashion brand, but it's the brand that really prioritizes fashion for people with a disability from a range of disabilities as well. Again, proving that not all disabilities are the same. Definitely, and yeah, it's their work is incredible.

SPEAKER_00 16:13

One of my favourite parts of that website and them as a brand is the seated guys, disabled people, people specifically in wheelchairs. There's a seated section on their website. I'm sorry, what a game changer. I know, I know.

SPEAKER_01 16:31

That's crazy. I think it's I think honestly, this should be the movement going forwards. Instead of like different trends like polka dot, like rich money, like like I don't know, Clean Girl, those trends are cute, but very general.

SPEAKER_00 16:46

Yeah, why can't one be seated? Like, I'm sorry, like you don't even have to have I mean it would be great, but please work with us. You don't have to have a we also use a muddle. Sit down on a chair. Yeah. There's chairs everywhere.

SPEAKER_01 17:00

Take one, sit down, take a picture. And also I'm like, how many people actually work from home but sat down? Yeah. It's like why it it's a br it's a market that pe people at one time in the day sit down. Yeah, all the time.

SPEAKER_00 17:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:17

So just a bit of a shout-out to them, and they d they don't know me personally. Like they this is nothing to do with any sort of endorsement or advertising. No, I just think that every time I see them on Instagram or just look at their website, I am obsessed. And I love it so, so much.

SPEAKER_00 17:31

It is important to talk about brands like this, even though we're not getting paid to speak about them. It is nice to speak about them because it kind of maybe more brands can take initiative from them, but also a lot of people might not necessarily know about them and you should.

SPEAKER_01 17:47

And I think it reaffirms as well what is missing. Yes. So yeah. Like I've always said, I would love to see a bald woman on Victoria Passion Show or something like I would love to see a bald girl in wings, me. But manifesting. Manifesting, yeah. But yeah, I think representation that is incredible.

SPEAKER_00 18:06

100%. And speaking of kind of fashion slash beauty, one moment that was really significant to me was walking into the sets of Refi, which was crazy to talk about. And hopefully, well, if I'm talking about it now and if it is in the podcast, it would be out. Yes. Um, and me kind of just seeing myself um being in that set where the rest of the models were able-bodied models and they were like your typical kind of people you would see, and then there's little old me. And it just and like at one point I was just like, this is crazy. Like, what am I doing here? Like, it was so mad, and seeing my picture, like the end result, like it was even more like this. Obviously, because it was a beauty shot and it was surrounding uh something to do with beauty, you couldn't necessarily see my wheelchair, and and I I think a lot of times people think when we want to be included, we might we necessarily want our disability to be on show. What we're trying to say is yes, we're disabled, but that's not us, that's part of us. And we're not diff and when we're different, that's part of you, not all of you. And it was nice for that brand to acknowledge that yes, I'm disabled, but I had the look that they're working for. Yeah. So they hired me because of that. And with it being Riffi and not to kind of go on about Riffi and trust me, I'm not being paid to talk about it right now. It was a brand that I'd always kind of stuck by for the past five years that they've been out, and to be part of that um campaign really meant meant a lot to me on like so many different rebels. So yeah, big shout out to Ri Fi.

SPEAKER_01 19:56

And I really hope it's outside that I can actually keep this fitting because it's I think even you talking about it, you're yeah, I think it was incredible.

SPEAKER_00 20:02

I'm just yeah, it was just the best, one of the best experiences of my life. Like obviously, I've been involved in other shoots and other campaigns, but that was one of the ones that like I'm gonna sit my grandkids down and talk to them about it.

SPEAKER_01 20:16

Amazing. So so pure. And I think continuing on the cosmetics, um, I get asked a lot on how I do my eyebrows because eyebrow pencils, sorry, not sustainable on my face. No. No, I don't have any eyebrows. Yeah. So if you can see on YouTube now, if you're watching this on like a video platform, um, you can see I have eyebrows. They are fake. Sorry to break it to you. They are tattoo transfers. They look great. So think of like children when they get cars or butterflies, like tattoo transferred to their arms or their their shoulder. Exact same, but mine are just eyebrow shaped and on my face. And there's two brands that I use a lot. You can get them on Amazon, very, very simple on there, and they're kind of like my backup ones. Um, just because they come in like a larger pack and it's the same style over and over again. But there's also Demuse and Zarellina Jackson cosmetics, Zarelina Cosmetics. I use those two a lot because their eyebrows are very unique and just not as general as the ones on Amazon.

SPEAKER_00 21:18

Um but until I was gonna say, I feel like we've done a lot of shout-outs to different brands too. Yeah, this is gonna be a lot in the description. But I like we said before, it is good to shout out these brands that like provide stuff, provide oh gosh, where did my accent go then? Who is she? Who is she? Um I think it's it's good to shout out these brands and like put them out there because it's it's it's good to be nice and other brands should take note.

SPEAKER_01 21:46

Yeah. And it's it's also where the fashion industry and cosmetic cosmetic industry is going as well. Yeah. And it's gorgeous to see. Beautiful to see. Love that. Yeah. Love that for us. But I guess just to wrap up the episode, and I guess the whole month we I've really enjoyed this moment. Yeah, we've really opened up perceptions, stereotypes, myths as a whole. And I think these are the main ones that almost hold people with a disability or people with a difference back.

SPEAKER_00 22:11

Yeah, because it's as much as we like to say, as much as I like to say people's opinions don't matter, it they have an influence on you to a certain extent.

SPEAKER_01 22:20

Yeah, and it's a reason why everyone focuses on like you could have a thousand positive comments, you get one negative, that's all you're focusing on for the rest of the day, week. Like honestly. So but when you see someone with the same physical attributes as you on a platform that's quite big and gonna be seen by so many people, it really means a difference, it really makes a difference. No matter whether it's good or bad, it makes a big difference. And so I think definitely what I've taken from the past few episodes is everyone has an opinion. Doesn't always have to be heard. No, and it's good to stay quiet on things you don't know anything about. Yeah, 100%. But also, we're not done. This isn't a tired topic, this is an up-and-coming, only just starting topic.

SPEAKER_00 23:08

And we would love to know your guys' opinions on everything we've talked about if you haven't still joined the conversation. We'd love to know your thoughts on the comments and things, etc.

SPEAKER_01 23:17

Because there are so many stereotypes, even now, that are being broken and being proven wrong. And it's so so good to see that. I love it.

SPEAKER_00 23:24

I'm like, yes, you pop off. Let's go. Exactly. And on that note, to introduce and give a sneaky peek about April, we're gonna have a few of people who are within the industry that we've just talked about. Yeah. Fashion and beauty and all things modelling, who are gonna be part who are part of Zebedee. Yeah, as well. Yeah. And yeah, so we're gonna have some interesting conversations with them.

SPEAKER_01 23:51

Yeah, some really cool characters on for the next few episodes.

SPEAKER_00 23:54

Yeah, if you've got any questions for them, let us know.

SPEAKER_01 23:58

Yeah. We'll ask them. Yeah. Or if even if there's any advice that you want watching this, thinking, oh, I'm a like I'm wanting to, I don't know, I have a dress for prom and I don't know how I feel about going with this company or XYZ or what design to go for, shout out. Like we're we're we're here. Yeah. Yeah, to be big sisters.

SPEAKER_00 24:18

Big sisters in the disability and difference community. Love it. And just in general, because just two little girls. Little girls. Little girls. Or a little girl in our 20s. Oh my god, 27. I am not gonna tell you guys. The drama. Zara. Zara. That wasn't really like Zara. What's going on? Oh no, can you believe, guys? No. It's been great. It has been great. Yeah. April. We're ready for you. We are.

SPEAKER_01 24:46

Anyway, on that note, I hope you have enjoyed this podcast, listening or watching, however, you have. And we hope to see you back in April. Yes, bye. Bye.