The Price of Success: Money, Time & Friendship

What does success actually cost? In this episode of The Triple Triple, Cathy, Meredith, and Sydne open up about the personal choices and trade-offs behind ambition, money, friendships, and parenting. 

From the thrill of first big purchases to how outsourcing and health have redefined their priorities, they share honest stories about investing in themselves, navigating “lifestyle creep,” and creating meaningful memories.

Whether you’re contemplating where to spend or save, or how to keep your friendships afloat in a busy life, this conversation will resonate with anyone trying to make it all work.

Timestamps
00:00 "First Big Purchase Memories"
05:38 "Dad's Fairness vs. My Investment"
08:06 "Refusing to Be Cheap"
12:10 "Prioritizing Health and Wellness"
16:00 "Parenting, Balance, and Space"
19:29 "Recharge, Rest, and Reflect"
21:03 "Solo Connections, Gathered Together"
23:30 Grace in Friendship's Busy Seasons
29:06 "Luxury Travel: Comfort vs. Cost"
32:26 "Frictionless, Efficient Air Travel"
34:24 "Incremental Lifestyle Upgrades"
38:29 From Europe to Indiana
40:44 "Choices Shape Our Lives"

ABOUT MRK PARTNERS

MRK Partners Inc. ("MRK") is a real estate development firm specializing in the acquisition, repositioning, preservation, and creation of affordable housing.

We are mission-driven and resident-centered, guided by the belief that everyone deserves safe and affordable housing. Secure homes and supportive communities are the foundation of empowerment.

By prioritizing our residents’ needs and fostering connection, opportunity, and resilience, we create environments that enrich lives, strengthen neighborhoods, and uplift entire cities.

Our approach integrates thoughtful design, purposeful amenities, resident services, sustainable practices, and operational efficiency to build affordable communities where people want to live — not just where they can afford to live.

With communities across the country, MRK continues to grow by building strong partnerships and demonstrating that affordability and excellence can coexist. 

To learn more, visit mrkpartners.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:00

I spend a lot of time at work. Decision fatigue is real and I'm not responding to my children in the way that's best.

SPEAKER_05 0:07

I have friends that that actually drains them when they have too many social obligations and it's too much. You know how I told you I write things out at night when I can't sleep? This is what started that. Now that you're outsourcing, are you doing more or are you relaxing and thinking?

SPEAKER_03 0:20

If I don't have to think about where I'm going, that's someone else's job. I just have to focus on doing whatever I'm doing. You really want to surround yourself with people who understand what you are as a person.

SPEAKER_04 0:32

Welcome to the Triple Triple.

SPEAKER_03 0:34

I'm Sidney Garchick, president and founder of MRK Partners.

SPEAKER_05 0:37

I'm Kathy Kohler, Chief Operating Officer of MRK. And Meredith Essery, Chief Revenue Officer of MRK. All right. So we were at dinner the other night, and Barrett is making fun of me about my very first big purchase when I was at my first job. Um, I've been there maybe like a year or two, and I needed a new car because I still had my car from college. And I was like, okay, this is it. I'm gonna get a new car. And Barrett was like, Well, what kind of car do you want? And I said, Well, not really sure, but I just wanted to have a six CD disc changer. And he was like, All cars come with six CD disc changers. I'm like, well, not mine, because mine's a 1994 Honda cord that my dad bought me. And that is the one thing I never had, and I really wanted it. And it was a really funny thing to think back about like, I didn't care what car it was, it didn't need to be new, it didn't need to be fancy, but this six CD dish changer in my head, this aging myself here, but was this thing I had wanted that I had never been allowed to have. And my first car, my parents um were divorced. And so they made a deal and said, however much money you save, we will match that. And that's what you get for a car. And so I worked all summer for like, you know, two years leading up to it and you know, did odd jobs and saved money. And I couldn't afford the car with the six CD dish changer. And I had saved a lot of money, and I felt like so sad that I didn't have that. And so it's a funny thing to think back, but I felt so accomplished when I bought this used Nissan Murano. It wasn't anything fancy, but it had six CDs. And I was like, I am the jam.

SPEAKER_04 2:22

This is amazing. Well, how did Barrett grow up to think that every car came?

SPEAKER_05 2:27

Because definitely they did not, not the car that I was driving. So I didn't really know at that time, right? Like that time. When was that? Early 2000s? CDs have a limited lifespan. That is fair, but don't you remember the books that you used to have like in the visors or your friend would sit in the front and flip the vibe and you had all the recorded V with the mixtape?

SPEAKER_02 2:48

Oh, the mixed tape. It was like the mixed tape. Yeah, I remember making the mixtape, but I don't remember, like, didn't you have to go to the trunk for the six CD guy? Yeah, you had it in the trunk, but then you had to commit. You had to go back out.

SPEAKER_05 3:00

You had to pick your six CDs and then put them in, and that was gonna be your mix for that ride. Yeah. But I don't remember thinking of it as like my big purchase. But now looking back, it was like, oh, that was the first time that I had made like a real big adult decision with my own money where my parents weren't supporting me, and I was 23, and I felt like it was something I could do. And I still was wildly responsible about it at that time, probably less so now, but very responsible about like, okay, I'm gonna need to use car, it still has to be at this dollar amount, but this one six CD dischanger was gonna change my life. I now obviously don't listen to CDs, but it was very, very cool at the time. So I'm wondering if you had a point where you maybe not even a big purchase, but when did you start to feel like I'm in control of my money and I'm making decisions about how I'm spending this and what I'm doing with it when you got into your first jobs? I still don't feel like that.

SPEAKER_03 4:01

You don't make your own decisions. I don't, I don't know. Delegate those. I don't know. But I do know that what I spent my money on was way less responsible. So I'm a little embarrassed. But I was like, my first big commission check when my first job, I bought myself a Michelle watch. Do you guys remember those? Like the Michelle watches, they were like so popular. And they had like the diamonds around them. Oh, yes, yes, yes. They and I still have it because it was like it's amazing, and sometimes I even still wear it. But it was, I was like, okay, like I can buy myself something really nice. And it really wasn't that expensive if I go back to it then. It was like a thousand dollars or something. But to me back then, it was literally the coolest thing, and I was so proud of myself that I had bought it myself. Um, but yeah, way less exciting than a car. It didn't get me anywhere. Definitely didn't play. It made me feel good. It did, it made me feel great.

SPEAKER_04 4:56

So I don't really like to buy things. You kind of talked about that. Like it's a big deal for me to buy like even shoes or anything like that. Like, I'm just not that doesn't excite me very much. But I thought about this and I would have to say it was my condo. And that was because so it was like 2010, 2011, and so now there's real estate that was on the market at a really good price in West LA. And so I did not have a big savings account or anything like that. And I was like, ooh, you know what though? This is a good investment. So I put together a whole plan for my dad. And I was like, look, I'm gonna pay rent, I'm gonna get a roommate to also pay rent. We're gonna be able to afford this return on your money as well if you put this in. And this is how I think it's gonna grow over time. And I think this is totally worth it. This is like the best investment you can do. Plus, I could live there.

SPEAKER_05 5:44

Like, what more could you want? Your daughter is well taken care of in misconduct.

SPEAKER_04 5:48

And I was like, he's gonna be so proud of me for putting, and I'm sure he was very proud of me for putting together this presentation. But he was like, you know, if I do it for you, I have to do it for you, your brother and your sister. And like in his mind, he meant like that day, right? Like he just he has to be fair to us, and which I love that he has to be fair to us. But I was complaining to my friend at work, Anna, um, about how crazy he was and how stupid he was because this was a great investment and blah, blah, blah. And Anna was like, you know, you have a 401k and it allows you to do a down payment. And if you think this is a great investment, then you do it. And I one was like, Well, that's why I have no cash because I put all my money in this 401k. And I was like, You're right. And I was so nervous. This is what I, you know, I told you I write things out at night when I can't sleep. This is what started that. For weeks, I would just write out the mortgage payment, the rent, everything I think it was gonna cost. And yes, I could do it. Yes, I could do it. And so I did it, and that's how I bought my first piece of property. That's awesome. So cool.

SPEAKER_05 6:50

I love that I love that it was like a random person at work that challenged you to just be like, no, you can do this. You do as my best friend at work, but yeah. That's true. That is true, and it was great. I think the luxury item actually ended up being later life thing for me, is whenever I got a bonus after that, I bought a bag. And I like that was, and then interestingly, I haven't done that for like the last five years because they stopped caring about the bag. And now I'm like, we really need new couches in the den. And so I'm gonna put it towards that. Like I've gotten more practical again, but there was a period where it was like the luxury item because I never bought luxury items, and which is kind of fun because now you have like these bags that are kind of like life commemorations.

SPEAKER_03 7:33

I remember that year over time. Yeah, that's that's really funny. My target bags don't do that for me.

SPEAKER_00 7:39

Yeah, but that condo was a good investment.

SPEAKER_03 7:41

Yeah, it wasn't very and I spent a lot of time with that condo, so I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_04 7:45

And it really helped me in the future. Whether it was it was it, dad, it paid off.

SPEAKER_03 7:50

You missed out. You missed out. You missed out. I know you're listening. Love that. Okay, on to the next segment, which is what success actually costs. So I think we're gonna talk about money and we're gonna talk about a personal cost. And so opening it up here if anyone wants to go first. Meredith made a lot of notes, so pass it to you.

SPEAKER_05 8:15

Um one of the things that Tiff questioned us in in the preparation notes here was a question around what do you refuse to be cheap about now? And we kind of talked about actually what our our big expenditures were and how those have changed over time. For me, where I refuse to be cheap is in outsourcing. I believe in outsourcing and I am willing to pay money to outsource things in my life so that I can have time to do the things that I want. So Barrett jokes that we have entirely too many people at our house in and out during the week. But because of that, I am present for dinner, not worrying about whether the bathroom is clean. I am present on the weekend because I'm not mowing the lawn. And I also believe in and love the people that help support my family and value the community system that exists to do this. And so, like both of you, I sit in a place of privilege and understand that I can outsource these things. But it has been, as my career has grown, the one thing that I think I would I refuse to give up. I would give up most everything else. I would go out, stop going out to eat. I'd sadly give up, you know, Botox or facials or whatever other silly things. But giving me my time is the most important thing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:40

Yeah, my my time around my and my children. Yeah. Right. So uh as you, I'm very fortunate to be able to have that help at home. And shout out to Luki and Lena because I couldn't survive without it. And one of my big things is um I spend a lot of time at work and I spend a lot of brain power at work, and decision fatigue is real. And sometimes I come home and I'm not responding to my children in the way that's best. But I have this great person at home who talks through to them, like how to come to decisions and how to deal with these things. So I feel like it's not all on me. And she can help with that as well. And I don't feel like I then cannot do something else. I I know she's got it for the days that I don't always 100% have it. And to me, that is worth all the money in the world because I want them to be these well-rounded individuals. And when I hear people tell me, like, oh, your children are so sweet, I'm like, it's not me. Like, but I could I'm so thankful for that.

SPEAKER_03 10:38

Yeah. Yeah, no, I a hundred percent agree and have the same thing and and wouldn't give that up. I think the one thing that I have done recently, which I is a luxury and um, but I really like doing it is kind of on the decision fatigue. Um you guys know, like I'm not a great driver. Like I am should be just in my my little neighborhood. Like then I shouldn't be driving far. It's not a good idea for me or for anyone else. So whenever I have to drive far, like I get a driver, and not just any driver when I'm at home, like I have one person. And basically what I do is I'm like, okay, I have to be here at this time. And he tells me what time, like, and to be outside, and that's all I have to do. And then when I'm in the car, I'm making the most of that. So I am, you know, answering emails, or I'm talking on the phone, or I'm having calls, or I'm doing whatever those things are. Because if I'm not driving, then I'm getting something done so that when I get home, I can show up in the best way because I've taken all of this time off of like off of my hands in the car. And also because navigating traffic sucks. It's the worst thing ever, and it just makes me annoyed. And I don't know all the roads, right? Like they're very complicated. They don't always work in a grid system. And so if I don't have to think about where I'm going, watch the map, you know, worry about traffic and do all these things, that's someone else's job. I just have to focus on like getting work done or doing whatever I'm doing. And so that is something that I definitely have chosen to spend money on more recently that I wouldn't have done before.

SPEAKER_05 12:19

One other thing that came to mind too that I think all three of us have done and we have a lot of conversations about is we've prioritized our health. So we are spending money on making sure that we continue to be healthy and we're seeing the right doctors and we're getting, you know, the mammograms and the colonoscopies, and we're checking in to ask the right questions to maintain like good health because we realize like that's the value of life, right? Like in order to be around for a long time and to have the energy to do the things we do, we invest in our health. And whether it's, you know, creatine or whatever vitamin we're talking about or whatever doctor visit we're doing, like that's become important. And I've seen a shift in my willingness to say, this is part of my self-care program. Like these are the things that are important to me to ensure that I maintain health. So that's another area I think I've invested in, and probably the two of you too.

SPEAKER_04 13:12

Well, when you're healthy, you could do more too. Yeah. When you wake up and you're ready to go versus when you're awake up and you're dragging, like where you last longer or this or that, like it's so worth it.

SPEAKER_03 13:20

Yeah, it's the base, it is what drives everything else. So I mean, I think you can only enjoy the time you have if you're if your base is super on it.

SPEAKER_01 13:29

Great question. At what point did you decide that you needed to and could outsource? Was it before you got the raise or the promotion to be able to afford it so that you can have time to get the promotion on the raise, or was it after because now you're like, I can afford it?

SPEAKER_05 13:45

That's a great question. It is a great question. I bet on the cum all the time. That is my mom's philosophy and has been my whole life. So, which makes my husband insane. But I think that's like why you bought the condo, right? You're like betting on yourself a little bit. Yeah. And I so I tend to do that. It's like I'm close enough where I'm not making irresponsible decisions, but I'm like, no, I can see this. Like, if I could do this, what would that return look like? Yeah. I'm the opposite.

SPEAKER_04 14:12

I mean, not the opposite, but like I I struggled with this for a very long time because for two aspects. One, like I I always want to make sure I have enough, and I'm worried about, I'm always worried about a rainy day. But then my other thing is if I get too used to it, then can I what's gonna happen if I have to go back? Yeah. Right. And I struggled with that for a long time. But I really thought about okay, if I have to go back, I have to go back. And I've done harder things. And if this is going to set up more chances for me to bet on the come, to bet on the future, then that is going to pay off. And if it doesn't work, I'll find another way to make that work in the future. But I do so when you outsource, that other party is then now depending on you. So you do have to take that seriously because they have a life and they have this and they have that too. So um, you know, it's it's a big decision, but I do wish that I had started it sooner. Being someone who's always afraid of the future, I think it held me back by by doing that. So I actually wished that I had more done it earlier and done more of it like you. Yeah. Um, but it just wasn't the right time for me. I was too worried about it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:21

I feel like I'm somewhere in the middle because I think part of it's also how you grow up too, like and what you remember. So, like, for example, my parents worked a ton. So I had there was a lot of outsourcing in our home, right? Like it just, it just was part of life. And and that's okay. Like my parents were essentially first generation college and and and successful, successful people. But I think my husband grew up with, you know, not a lot of outsourcing. And that means that in order to take on help, I think I was kind of riding that line where it was like, we did it, but only in the point where we kind of felt like we were dying a little bit. And we didn't wait until we were dead. We just waited till that point where I was like, yo, like I we can't do this anymore. Like I got pregnant with m Eliza, my middle kid, and I was just like, I would want to go up after work and just lay in bed because I felt so terrible. And I just said to Mark, I was like, look, I we can't, like I we I am not capable of supporting us in the way that we need to be supported. And and he it, you know, was is is an equal parent, but still, like there's only so much that you guys can, you know, you can do when you're both working parents. So I think it's somewhere in the middle, but I but I think that I agree, like being ahead of it is so helpful because giving yourself some space also to think and really say, Hey, like if I had this time, what more could I do? But you only get the space to think about that once you have the space, right? Like it's it's like this cycle. So you know, I'm a fan of time.

SPEAKER_05 17:05

The interesting thing I'm gonna challenge you on a comment because and I do this too. It's like, well, if I had that time, what more could I do? And like my kids get TV on Saturday afternoons, right? So that's their TV time, and it gives me two and a half hours. And 50% of the time, Barrett naps. Like he'll lay on the couch and snuggle them while they watch a movie or whatever, but he naps, and I'm like, excuse me, I'm what are you doing? Like I am like motoring around the house, I'm doing work, I'm cleaning a closet, I'm doing all these things. And Barrett's like, the some of the point of this is to give you time to sit. Agreed, to read a book, to relax, to do this, like to not do. And I am constantly challenged by that. I'm I would say some days I'm good at it, but probably most I'm not. And I wonder if you do that like constantly feel like you have to fill your time now that you're outsourcing. Are you doing more or are you relaxing and thinking?

SPEAKER_04 18:01

I am very challenged and then not do. Yeah. To the point where I drive myself to the I can't do. And then that's a whole problem on its own. But then, you know, but I am always very challenged to just sit and relax. So that's always it's tough for me. Yeah. Um, but what I do a lot with that time is I go work out. Yeah. And so then I feel energized or this, that. And I am so protective. It drives my husband crazy. I'm so protective of my sleep. Yeah. And sometimes that leads to bad habits, our kids sleep in our bed longer than other kids do. Cause I'm like, you won't fall asleep. Guess what? I am. Like you're not a you're not a toddler anymore. So I can sleep while you're just sitting here. And there's pluses and cons to that too. You got to make sure they sleep because they need it. Uh, but I protect my sleep every night like no other. Yeah. And then I don't na I don't rest as much during the day because I've had that good sleep. Yeah. That's an interesting thing. But I do use that time to then work out instead. Right. Which energizes you, recalibrates you emotionally, like prepares you. A lot of anxiety and working out has done amazing things for my anxiety. And I know that it was hard for me, honestly, to realize that and then to prioritize it because I thought, well, I should be working. I should be doing this other thing. I should be cleaning. I there's so many other things to do. But it releases my anxiety in a way that or stabilizes it in a way that is so much more productive that I have to like people could be mad at me. I don't care. I'm doing that. Right.

SPEAKER_03 19:25

Yeah. I completely agree with that. I think I'm somewhere in the middle. Like I am perfectly content to sit with the girls and watch a movie. Yeah. Like I've gotten them into Hallmark. Oh. Thank you, Lord. Oh. Fascinating. And it's like the young kids' lifetime. It's amazing. It's so amazing. And I am perfectly happy to sit and just snuggle. Because I think part of it is recharging for me, is honestly not talking to anyone. Because I we spend so much time talking all week. And so I'm so happy to sit and do that. But I'm also happy to be like, I'm gonna crank out an hour of work and feel really good about it too. So I think that, but but I think this goes back to remember when we like kind of cleared our schedules and we were like, well, what do we do now? Part of it is sitting in that so you can figure out what is the best use of your time too, right? But I completely agree. Like I love, I love a good nap. I often don't take them, but I would love to nap every week. Yeah. I husbands do that a lot. They I feel like I feel like there's a lot of husband napping. Like Mark just falls asleep on the couch, and I'm like, where is this kid?

SPEAKER_04 20:26

Yeah, so lots of husband. But I it comes back to we had talked just to us earlier today about my caffeine intake. It's front loaded in the morning, and then I have to cut it off so I could sleep at night. There's no nap happening unless I'm sick because I am just so hyped up on caffeine that like it is not gonna happen. That's a separate issue.

SPEAKER_05 20:44

We can talk about that offline. That'll be our health episode. How much caffeine does Kathy Kohler need?

SPEAKER_03 20:50

More. Okay, so we talked a little bit about money in this topic, which is what success actually costs. And now let's talk a little bit about the personal costs. So, has your job ever impacted your friendships or relationships? And um, would love to get thoughts on that. Whoever wants to go first.

SPEAKER_04 21:13

Yeah, I've thought about this my whole life because um I'm the type of person I don't really do group activities and I'll do a one activity, but I've always had like I like to go do this and I have a friend here because I think they're a cool person, and then I have a friend here because I think they're a cool person, and then here. And then on like my birthday, I bring all my friends together and they don't even know who they each other are. And this started when I was little. Um, so I swam and I had like a big swimming program. And so I started with school friends, and then I had swim friends, and I spent all my time with my swim friends. And swimmers know it's hard to mix school and swimmer friends. But um, when I got in like I think my freshman year and high school, I ended up getting a letter. Um, it was magazine cutout letter. Like, and it basically told me that I thought I was too cool and that I wasn't cool. They wanted to let me know that. And but what it was, I knew who it was. They would, I mean, they did the magazines that I wouldn't know, but I knew who it was. My school friends, I did not see them nearly as much as I used to because of this swimming program. And they didn't understand that. And so I'm bringing this back, tying it to ambition. I had all these goals in swimming and nothing was gonna stop me. And when I got that letter, I was like, oh, they don't understand what I'm doing here. Like, I don't think I'm too cool. I am putting all of my energy into this thing and I'm gonna move it forward and I'm gonna do what I do. And I liked them a lot. I just didn't have time anymore. And it made me realize that at a young age that you really want to surround yourself with people who understand what you are as a person. And so I don't think I've ever lost a friend due to my ambition. I just don't think they were the right friend. But on the flip side, you can't have yes people with you and no one's gonna be perfect. And I can be laser focused and I need a good friend who's gonna tell me, like, hey, you need scale it back. Like I live next door to you and I haven't seen you in two months. Like, what are you doing? So I want an honest friend, and I will acknowledge when I am not being a good friend, they might need to call me on it. But you really need to surround yourself with people who understand what you're trying to do. And then you're not, you're not losing friends. They're they're promoting you and pushing you up because in order for you to achieve what you're trying to do, it might sacrifice your friendship a little bit, but they know you love they you love them. Right.

SPEAKER_03 23:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:28

I feel like the little child Kathy is like I know.

SPEAKER_03 23:30

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_04 23:31

She was way more like put together than I am now. We we then we just went down and we're coming back up, we're getting back there.

SPEAKER_05 23:39

I think you I love what you said about this, and I and I love this question because I similar to you, don't I don't know that I've lost friends over this, but I have found friends that are badass women and they have big jobs and big lives and children and all of these things going on. And we talk about grace all of the time in our friendships. And it's like, hey girl, I haven't seen you in three weeks, just a well check. Are you good? And it's like, yes, drowning, big presentation, traveling to Europe, I'll be back on Thursday. Like, and that's okay because we are saying, like, I get what you're going through. I'm going through it too. And we joke that we're all going to be 55 and then be friends again. Yeah. It's like this we have to do just enough between 35 and 55 to maintain those friendships. And then at 55, when all of our kids are gone or 60 or however the hell old I'll be, like, then you get to be with your friends again when you're not running a thousand miles an hour. But I will say, and we talk about this a lot, like hosting and having parties is my love language. Like feeding people and bringing people together is my love language. And we did a party, we do a lot of big family parties. And we did one a couple of weeks ago where we packed um care packages for the unhoused. And so every family, I did a sign-up genius, and everybody brought stuff. And then we put the kids at long tables in the yard and we packed um like 300 bags. And it was so cool. And then because I'm me, I had it catered by a Smash Burger guy. And like I did all because that's how I love people. And my friend was like, thank God for you as our cruise director, because we all want to be in community and want to be in friendship, but sometimes you just need one person in the group that's gonna get everybody out of the chat, right? And into the party. Cause it's a lot easier to just say yes. I mean, I put the Amazon links to the water bottles and the granola bars because I was trying to save time for people. And they can just show up and then it brings me that joy that I need from my friends. But then I won't see them again for weeks because we're too busy. But also say is a parent, sports are amazing because you end up seeing people multiple times a week. Oh my God, that's like you're all your friends are your kids' sports friends. But I do spend a lot of time investing in that because it's important to me. But it all boils down to having a friend group that supports you, that has grace for you, and that you have grace for them. And if you have that, like you'll survive all of the chaos of ambition and children and sick parents and all of the things that happen.

SPEAKER_03 26:23

Yeah. I 100% agree with all those things. I don't have a ton of friends, honestly, outside of like work, right? Like, and so I get a lot of my friend fill during the week. Yeah. And that's great for me, and that works, and I'm happy with that. And I definitely have some friends out outside of school, or outside of school, outside of work. Um, but I think that that it's it's exactly the same. They're all like ambitious women and we all have schedules we're juggling. And then I think they hold me accountable too. They'll be like, where have you been? I haven't seen you or heard from you or whatever. And I'll be like, you're right. I suck. Here, I'm I'm on it, right? Like I'm on it and I'm I'm coming back to to reality. I also think um one thing that I've done is I have a friend, really good girlfriend, and we plan ahead. Like we'll plan like a massage or whatever, massage and dinner or whatever, but we'll plan that ahead so that we can like quarterly, right? Or whatever. And that way we have that time and we know it's blocked. And unfortunately, like when you have jobs like this and you have families and all these things, it almost takes that type of planning to really get ahead for it, like kind of like what you did with the with the event. Um, but I think that's the other thing that I've done is say, okay, like in on this date, I've blocked this out and it's set, and and that's how I'm gonna I'm gonna show up to this. So um it's the same way you do with like dates with your husband, right?

SPEAKER_05 27:50

Like you I'm like, do we have time? Can you put it on my calendar block time for that? And I will make that happen because we live and breathe by our calendars. Yeah. Um, and really like creating space for that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:02

Well, I think it was interesting because you said if you don't see your friends for three weeks, and I said three months. And honestly, mine is like six months to a year. And it comes to energy though, right? Because like that gives you energy to plan those things. And if it doesn't give you energy and there's more a distance in there, it doesn't mean you can't check in on the person, but you might not be seeing them in person. Some of my best friends I have not seen in a long time, but we're text I know what's going on in their lives, like text messages and such. Um, but so I think you have to just do what's right for you to move yourself forward. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 28:34

Um, and and yeah, I because I have friends that it's not in my like close circle, they're it, but you know, a friend of a friend or listening to it. It's like, no, that actually drains them when they have too many social obligations and it's too much. And it's so it's not helpful, but it doesn't mean they don't love you and they don't care about you and they don't want to show up for you when you need them. It's just like, dude, that's not my jam. And that is okay too. But I think to your point, you have to find what it is your energy. And if it's one-on-one relationships or for me, it's groups and whatever, but making sure that you're just paying attention to it, um, and then making sure that you're giving grace and choosing friends that give grace. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:16

Okay, now for our in the news. Airlines are increasingly investing in ultra-luxury cabins, private suites, premium lounges, curated dining, targeting affluent and business travelers willing to pay significantly more for comfort and exclusivity. While most passengers still fly economy, airlines are focusing revenue growth on the high-end experience. That raises a bigger lifestyle question. What are we really paying for when we upgrade comfort versus time, status, or sanity? And what are you actually willing to pay for? So when I read this, it immediately made me think of this movie WALLI. It's a cartoon movie. And um it's in the future, and the every all the humans are on these hovercrafts and they have a screen in front of their face, and basically their life, their lives are set up so they don't have to lift a finger, but one of them falls off and they're just left behind because they can't even support their own weight. And I do worry, like there, yes, I like to have things set up so that I could be more efficient, but what's that line? Like, I don't want us to become wally, right? Right? So no, it's a good question. What is the line? Like, I believe in a little bit of friction in my life to keep me strong, but at the same time, I am hugely efficient. And so, what is where where can we draw that line for the cost and what's worth it? And I was curious to get your guys' thoughts on that.

SPEAKER_05 30:33

That's so funny that you tied it back to that movie, but so true. You know the movie, right? So true. So I was giving thought to the idea that like what was luxury has become mainstream. And so, like, remember when you would order a package and you'd wait every day for two weeks for it to show up? You couldn't track it, like it was out in the ether and you're waiting for your new like Dahlia's cataloged t-shirt or something. And now it's like, I need a new book and I will order it on Amazon. And can do I want it delivered between 4 a.m. and 7 a.m. the next day. Yes, yes, I do. I'd like to read that. But our kids, it's really funny because my kids are like, Well, when is it coming? I'm like, it'll be a few days. They're like, a few days, you know. That idea that there isn't friction is wild to me. But I wonder, like using the airline example, like airlines used to be very luxurious, right? Like, and then airline travel, because airline travel was fancy, and then airline travel became mainstream. So you kind of lost the luxury because it became mainstream. So I wonder like some of the things that feel fancy, are they always gonna feel fancy? And admittedly, like on the question of like what am I willing to pay for? I did once travel in a laid down flat bed to Europe using points, and I got upgraded and I was like, holy shit, this is amazing. Yeah. And I don't know how I'll ever go back. And then I've been back ever since, back in economy, because I'm not paying for lay-down flat seats. Um, but it's about, it would be about the comfort. I don't like the exclusivity vibe of it. Like, I do not like a ladder climber. I do not like someone who's always trying to like be better and be fancier. But I'm like, dang, it was comfortable. Like it was really nice. I get it.

SPEAKER_04 32:23

But that's not where you're like a presentation you're giving and you have to fly internationally, you're gonna land and give it within hours. Like it's a little bit more than need for that outcome. And that's different than just like I wanted to post it on my Instagram.

SPEAKER_03 32:36

Yeah, but I think that's for me, that's it, right? Like I'm going for efficiency and I want frictionless travel, right? So, like, let's say that I have to take a red eye, which I am old and it is not too hard. Then I need to lie flat, right? Like, I need to lie flat or else I cannot take this red eye because I will not be able to function the next day. Hard stop. But I think it's interesting because like what I like, why do you want to eat a gourmet meal on a flight? Like, honestly, I just want to get off the flight. Like, get me off, get me on, get me where I'm going, and get me off, right? Like, I don't want to like hang out in the thing at the airport, the lounge. I'm not, I'm barely getting a water when I get there, right? Like, I want to get to the airport, get on the plane, and get wherever I'm going. And like most of the time, you know, I f I fly economy all the time. Um, and I think that I won't change that unless there's like a specific, like again, a red eye or something like that. Because I'm just sitting there working. I'm sitting on an aisle, like I'm sitting there working, and I'm happy as a clam. I like put my movie on or whatever. And and that works for me. But but again, like that's my preference. I'm not going to the airport in advance. I don't want to get a drink or anything like that. But I think it all depends on what what everyone wants their jam.

SPEAKER_04 33:55

And I think we were talking about our focus right now, and especially if we're traveling for work, is how can we pack that travel to be as efficient as possible in as the least amount of days as possible so we can come back and be with our families or just keep doing whatever it is that you're doing because you have other things you're trying to accomplish. So it might help because you don't have to spend the night in a hotel if you take the red eye. And then if if you're taking the red eye to present, it's different than if you're taking the red eye home, right? So maybe you don't lay flat home, but you do on the way there.

SPEAKER_05 34:23

My girlfriend um has designed and built a couple of houses and she talks about scope creep all the time. And she's like, Okay, so you just want to have a new kitchen. But then when you decide on your kitchen design and you start doing it and the walls are coming down, you realize, oh, I should probably have new floors. It's gonna look weird with my old floors and my new floors. And then as you do the new floors, you're like, oh, these don't look right in the bathroom. And now you've, you know, gutted the bathroom. And it just keeps going, right? And Barrett always talks about that about lifestyle scope creep. And so what we're talking about now is like a lie flat bed, but you know, maybe 10 years ago, we were buying Michelle watches and, you know, like doing things that felt really big and scary at that time and feel like nothing now. And so I do think there's a bit of luxury that we don't even realize that we're accepting as mainstream in our own lives because it just incrementally changes. I didn't win the lottery where I can now go fly private jets all the time. I just incrementally worked my ass off and made more money and structured my life such that I can enjoy some of these additional luxuries.

SPEAKER_04 35:34

And technology advances make them more affordable and such. But I mean, I remember when I was in my mid-20s, we'd go to Hawaii as a family. And I would, I wanted to spend as much time at the beach as possible. So on my last day, I would take a red eye on the way home and I'd go to work the next day, and I was fine too. Right. So as you also get older, you're just you don't have the energy to do some of those things. Very good. You have higher expectations on you because I was in just a different role then and I could easily do it a little bit of sleep.

SPEAKER_03 36:02

Yeah. But I would argue like today, I don't really care about a Michelle watch. Right. Today I care if I write, like am saving time at the airport or whatever, right? Not to say that like I'm I'm more luxuriously flying or whatever, but I think that like my preference has changed on what I spend my money on, right? Like I don't I don't care about the Michelle watch. However, I will say that we're going to Ireland and as a family with three children on a very long flight, it's like 10 hours. And I convinced Mark to do like the not lie flats, but like the 90 degree or whatever, because I'm like, well, I'm like, we're gonna take a red eye with these kids and they're gonna be horrific. And so so I'm curious to see how that works out. Because to me, again, trying to generate less drama, I'm like, if these kids will sleep because the chair goes back 25 more degrees, like I am willing to pay anything for that, to be honest. Like I'm willing to pay anything to not have a fight on the plane is gonna be Yeah, your motivator is different, but your scope still changed.

SPEAKER_05 37:08

Like you had the scope creep, but it's not for the same reasons that you know someone else has the scope creep. They want to be fancier, you know, post it online or whatever. And you're just like, I don't give a shit about that. I just want my kids to sleep so they're not screaming at me at 7 a.m. when I land in Ireland. Like I have a very different motivation, but we're gonna get there the same way.

SPEAKER_03 37:26

When Avery goes under the seat and refuses to get out and just screams, yeah, that that'll be like really fun.

SPEAKER_04 37:32

And I'm like, we're driving to Palm Springs because we're not going to Ireland. Because we're not touching a flight.

SPEAKER_05 37:38

We still have a very tiny human.

SPEAKER_04 37:40

No, I know, but also it said like, please come see me in Vermont. And I was like, uh, yeah, sure, when they're older. We're not getting on a flight with them right now.

SPEAKER_05 37:47

But you actually, it's interesting, like looking back though, um, traveling with other people with really tiny babies, and you're like, oh, I've got it down. Like looking at people that can't figure it out because they have tiny infants. And even though you don't feel like that, you're actually crushing travel. Oh, yeah, it's fine. I just try not to do it.

SPEAKER_04 38:05

Yeah. Like I'm like, they don't even know what Ireland is. Let's keep it that way. They want to go to Hawaii. And I'm like, but isn't Palm Springs just the same?

SPEAKER_03 38:12

Remember, I have a Kathy and there are titles all over the world in her room. So we're going to Ireland, people.

SPEAKER_05 38:18

Oh no, we're getting to that, like deciding where they want to go. They voted, there was a PowerPoint, they turned into a Blair over the summer vacation. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 38:27

We had a Chat GPT presentation. Oh, yeah. Ours will all be about what sports teams and like going to the different arenas. And luckily, LA has a lot of that.

SPEAKER_05 38:36

Okay, bye. We'll drive to San Diego. That actually is really fun. My kids got really into MLB um ballparks, and that is a really fun vacation. You know, speaking of, okay, let's talk about, I'm gonna backwards this one on luxury, but we had planned to go to Europe last summer, and my dad um had a stroke in late April, and we talked a lot about as a family, we needed to spend some more time with my dad. Thankfully, he's okay, but it was like really top of mind that we needed to go back there. So instead of going to Europe, we went to Indiana. And those are very different places. And what we did was we extended this trip and we went to Indiana and then we drove from Indiana, stopped in West Virginia at a water park, and then went to Virginia, where Barrett and I used to live and visited our friends. And, you know, on paper, it was like we had given up the luxury of the European vacation and the experience of international travel, which is really important to us. But that vacation was like core memory vacation for our kids. It was all Americana, like backyard barbecues with friends, like a symphony out in a field with my mom, like fireworks on the lake with my aunts and uncles. Like there were so many incredible memories that had nothing to do with luxury. And we drove in a car and we told stories and played games. And they actually asked this year when we were planning the summer trip, we commit to the international travel for this trip. But every child said, But we're still going back to Virginia, right? I was like, I mean, maybe, but it was like that was so memorable to them that the luxury didn't matter. And it was really cool to watch that through their eyes. And it was even to me like a really, really good trip. So you don't have to fly.

SPEAKER_04 40:25

Yeah, we took Indiana. We took the kids to Legoland and they just tantrums all at Legoland. And at the hotel, which wasn't the Legoland Hotel, it was a random hotel. They just played in the pool and played in the room with grandpa and Ellie, their cousin. And that was the highlight of the trip. Yep.

SPEAKER_05 40:41

It wasn't the Legoland, it wasn't what we thought it was. Yeah. This goes back to not being able to control your children. Where you learn to let go and be like, they are who they are and they're gonna do what they're gonna do.

SPEAKER_03 40:53

Okay, capping the episode with a quick quote How we spend our days is how we spend our lives by Annie Dillard. And basically, like, I think the little choices really matter where we put our energy, what we say yes to, um, what we can relax and not control, all of those things um end up really being worth it. So absolutely. That's a wrap.