Evive Live
Evive Live is a conversation series at the intersection of gambling harm and behavioral health. Hosted by Adam Lyons (The Modern Meeting) and Christina Cook (The Broke Girl Society), each episode features clinicians, researchers, treatment providers, peer specialists, and people in recovery having the honest conversations the field needs — about what gambling disorder really looks like, what treatment actually works, and what it takes to build a recovery that lasts.
Evive Live
Alyx Effron | Collectors MD Founder
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The hobby world has a gambling problem — and almost no one is talking about it.
Alyx Effron, founder of Collectors MD, joins co-hosts Adam Lyons and Christina Cook to expose the gambling mechanics embedded inside the modern trading card industry — live-streamed breaks, sudden death auctions, influencer-manufactured wins, and casino-style marketing emails — all operating with zero regulation, zero age gates, and zero guardrails. Alyx shares his own story of gambling and collecting addiction feeding each other for years, and why traditional recovery spaces didn't have language for what he was experiencing.
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🔗 RESOURCES & LINKS
🟢 Evive — Digital support for gambling behavior change
🌐 https://www.getevive.com/
📱 Download the app: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/evive-gambling-support/id6450926060
🟣 The Broke Girl Society with Christina Cook — Community and recovery support for women
🌐 https://thebrokegirlsociety.com/
🎙️Apple Podcasts - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-broke-girl-society-podcast/id1575593868
🎙️Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/74DP23EzfR6WPpPMLYq45x
📺 YouTube Channel - https://www.youtube.com/@thebrokegirlsociety
🎧 The Modern Meeting Podcast with Adam Lyons — Gambling recovery, real talk
🌐 https://themodernmeeting.com/
🎙️ Apple Podcasts - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-modern-meeting/id1779060982
🎙️ Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/1jMSSKkadnvzbvZl33dzZc
📺 YouTube Channel - https://www.youtube.com/@ModernMeeting
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🔔 Subscribe to Evive Live for new episodes featuring the clinicians, researchers, advocates, and people in recovery who are changing how we think about gambling harm.
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Evive Live is produced by Evive, a digital health platform dedicated to gambling behavior change. Views expressed by guests are their own.
Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of Evive Live. My name is Adam Lyons, the host of the Modern Meeting Podcast. I am here with Christina Cook from the Broke Girl Society. Christina, how are we doing?
SPEAKER_00We're doing all right. We're doing all right.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I mean, uh, you know, if there's one thing that I love to do, especially in the last four years of my recovery, I love when I learn shit. I know that sounds corny, but like I loved learning about the world of hobby breaking, ripping. Like it was my head is spinning, but it was it was awesome to talk to. Uh, we we talked to Alex Efron, um, the founder of Collectors MD.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah, I was absolutely fascinated by the conversation because even though I've been working in this space almost five years and I've I thought I've heard every story, it's just interesting to see how gambling can translate into so many different things. And and and it seems like it's just so more acceptable, right? Like hobbies, a hobby. What is the definition of a hobby, right? And it's just like so you never think about hobbies being, even though I I will say I used to joke that I should start a hobbies anonymous because I but my version of that was just starting a new hobby and then just moving on. But when I would start that hobby, I'd buy everything I needed for the hobby. I would get into it and then build. I was just like, no, I need everything to start it, and then I would never really get into it. And then so, like, that's kind of my experience with hobbies. But he really to really opened that book and and showed us that no, this is this is a really, really um serious topic.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and and like I all I could think of was like, you know, because I was coming into this conversation not knowing a lot at all. But by the end of it, for me, it was just like, it seems like it's been a perfect storm of like social media, gambling, greed, you know, money, and you know, like just like the immaturity. I mean, the there's there's kids that are, you know, there there's no regular. I mean, this is the truly the wild, wild west when it comes to this, this whole this whole scene. And I it's just it's so, you know, I I said it on the interview, I said in the conversation with Alex, like it's just another, it seems like another thing that we ruined, right? Like I can remember growing up going to card shows with my dad, and uh, you know, like, and then I got the Beckett book, and I would look up to see how much my Cal Ripkin rookie card was. I mean, now it's just it's just a whole nother world, and it's just it just seems chaotic the way that it's the way that it's set up.
SPEAKER_00Well, if you think back to your own gambling harms and when you were in that active addiction, like do you remember how chaotic life was?
SPEAKER_01And how chaotic the whole world was so many similarities.
SPEAKER_00But even when he was kind of breaking it down on the way that that these places reach out, the emails that they send, it's very, it's very gambling-esque, you know, free incentives, things like that, which very much mirrored the spaces of like free bets, free play, prizes, things like that. If you spend so much money, you get this. And it was just really fascinating for him to kind of take us into that world and a world that, and I'm gonna be really honest, I haven't really been too curious about until sharing his side of things.
SPEAKER_01And now, yeah, now I'm in.
SPEAKER_00Um it's like now you can't not un not see it. Like you you see now, it's just like even with my nieces and nephews, it's just like now I'm gonna be hyper-focused on kind of what what they're doing. And you know, we see things like the laboo-boos, and and I'll just share this story and then we'll just get into the episode. But I was at the mall recently with my niece, and she really wanted one of those laboo boos. I hope I'm saying them right, yeah. That everybody was talking about. And they were like, I I didn't really know much about them because I'm 47, but it it really was like we stopped at this thing, and he was like, You can buy one for this amount, or you can buy three for basically you'd get one free. And of course, my niece was like, She just wanted one. And I was like, Okay, I'll get you one, but you don't know what it is. Like, you don't know what one you're getting. There's more that are more valuable or more desirable. And it felt so much like gambling to me to buy the three, because you could get three of the same things or whatever. And I said, I'll get you one just because I'm I'm here to spoil you today. Um, but it really kind of made me think about the gambling aspect for me. Like to buy three, get two free. I mean, buy three, get one free, and then, but you still don't know what you're getting. So there's that element, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, my nephew, my nephew's, my nephew does the same thing. I I remember uh we were at like a family thing, and he had told another one of my nieces that he got a laboooboo for Christmas, and they the first thing they said was, Oh, which one did you get? Did you get the special one or did you get this one? And you just it's just hitting me now that like it's the same thing. God same thing.
SPEAKER_00Well, I hope this this conversation uh speaks to you in the way that it did with us. It was very informative and we appreciate Alex coming on. Um, so let's get into this episode.
SPEAKER_01Hey everyone, another episode of EVE Live. This week we have the founder of Collectors MD, Alex Efron. Alex, welcome to EVIB Live.
SPEAKER_05Adam, Christina, thanks so much for having me. Really excited to be here and have this conversation. We've been doing some amazing things with eVive, and uh this has been something I've been looking forward to for some time.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so uh, you know, before we get into kind of your story and everything, you gotta tell us, because, you know, I had baseball cards when I was a kid, and that's about it. But give us the uh, you know, the cliff notes of what is collector's MD and you know, what is the problem that you're trying to solve in the space?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, so I didn't start collector's MD because I was anti-hobby, anti-gambling, anti-collecting, anything like that. I started it because I love collecting. I love the hobby. I've been doing it my whole life. Uh, I grew up, you know, um, with uh a grandfather who was an avid watch collector. Like he loved luxury watches and I would always marvel at them. And, you know, it was always just kind of rooted in my, I think, my DNA. And so as I got a bit older, I got into things like memorabilia and sneakers, obviously watches too. Um, fast forward to the pandemic, everybody was on lockdown. The sports card hobby absolutely exploded and it became this phenomenon of sorts where people were able to sort of interact and connect with one another virtually. And it was actually, you know, in theory, a beautiful thing. There was connection, camaraderie, uh, excitement around shared passion, things of that nature. And so, you know, by becoming more involved in this hobby, I saw firsthand how easily it can slip from that passion into just unrelenting pressure. Um, you know, so through my collecting journey, I know the rush of the chase, the satisfaction of, you know, the hit or the purchase, uh, the way timing, scarcity, and community validation can really just, you know, light up your brain. Um, but I also live the other side, the creeping normalization of overspending, the rationalizations, the feeling of just feeling like you have to be uh in control while quietly feeling like, you know, you're really out of alignment. You know, nothing catastrophic had to happen for it to be a problem. It was subtle, it was quiet, and that's exactly why it became so dangerous. And what I realized is that modern collecting isn't neutral anymore, right? It's it's fast, it's frictionless, it's it's algorithm-driven, and it's just increasingly built around gambling mechanics. Uh, you have speed, you have randomness, you have social pressure, you have constant access. And those sys, and when those systems collide with things like stress and identity and loneliness or financial vulnerability, you know, the outcomes can be really harmful, even if they don't look so dramatic from the outside. When I went looking for support, you know, there was a gap. Uh, traditional gambling resources didn't really fully fit. I would go to GA meetings and I would just feel out of place. You know, I had a I had a gambling problem too, uh, severe one, but um, you know, the two sort of were intertwined and they kind of fed fed each other in a way. And so I'd sit down in a GA room, I'd start talking about um joining breaks and just buying box after box. And we're not talking about$30,$50, you know, boxes that you see in Walmart or Target. We're talking about high-end um hobby boxes that cost anywhere from a couple hundred bucks to upwards of ten thousand dollars a pop. Like we're talking about a pop, right? And, you know, people buy them in in high volume. They go one after another the same way. A compulsive gambler would just keep gambling, right? And so, you know, hobby spaces don't want to talk about harm. And collectors who are struggling, you know, feel isolated and ashamed and unsure whether their experience, you know, uh counted or matters. And so collectors MD really exists to fill that gap. It's not about shaming the hobby or telling people they need to quit collecting, it's about giving collectors language, support, and structure, whether that means learning to collect more intentionally, uh, stepping away entirely, or just finally being honest about what something is costing them emotionally, financially, or relationally, right? With their with their relationships. So at its core, collecting is about one thing. It's just helping people to stay connected to themselves while navigating a system that's just designed to pull them out of alignment.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah. And so forgive my ignorance. I know, Christina, you probably know a little bit more about collecting than I do, but there was at least like 10 or 12 words that you just said that I kind of know what it is, but I don't know what it is. So, you know, and I'm sure I'm not the only one listening right now who is very curious about this, especially like maybe some of these parents out there that have young kids. Because so I guess let's start with, you know, you you were mentioned that it's like fast pace and high pressure. So just, you know, explain to us like we're five years old, like what exactly does that mean? Like, like what are so people are trading like on the internet. I know I sound ignorant and stupid right now.
SPEAKER_00I just don't, I've never I'm gonna come in with my thought and see if it kind of lines up, but like the pressure of like a bid or um you know, only having so much time to get that bid, make sure you get the right amount of money in the bid for whatever the the box or that you're doing. That that was my thought, but I'd love to hear that explanation to see if I'm even on the same.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, like what's a bid? What's a box? Like a box of what? A box of cards or a box of cards? Yeah. Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I'm gonna take a step back um and talk about breaking because that's where this is all uh sort of happening. It's where the a lot of the problems, a lot of the harm is taking place. And so breaking in layman's terms is when people, um, an individual or you know, a card shop opens sealed boxes of trading cards. We're talking about, you know, anything from sports cards to TCG, which includes like Pokemon and Magic the Gathering and Yu-Gi-Oh! Um, and then there's, you know, franchise, franchises that have trading cards now. I think Disney, Marvel, I mean SpongeBob has has uh a product of its own now that's become incredibly popular. And so these these individuals are basically opening up these high-end, expensive, sealed boxes live on a stream and then selling spots to viewers ahead of time. So instead of buying an entire box by yourself because it can be so incredibly expensive, you're basically buying a piece of it. And it's usually tied to something like a team or a player or a random slot. And when the card, the cards get opened, when the box gets opened on camera, whatever hits from your spot belong to you or assigned to you, the breaker then sends them to you.
SPEAKER_01Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_05Let's say you buy the the Knicks or you buy a random team in a break and you get assigned the Knicks, right? The New York Knicks. You're only going to get Knicks cards from that particular box. If nothing good comes out for your team, or if there are no Knicks cards at all, um, you still paid, but you don't get anything back. Uh if a big card does get hit, it feels like a huge win, right? And so that's why uh people compare breaking to gambling. It's one and the same. You're paying. I mean, that literally is gambling, from what I from from what you're telling me.
SPEAKER_00Well, let's let's the definition of gambling is when a person stakes something of value on the outcome of an event or a thing and with a hope of winning something, right? So when we look at the definition, that's exactly what it is. Um, you know, the consideration, right? What you're putting up for to get something of value, right? Um, the chance, the chance of getting something valuable.
SPEAKER_05Right.
SPEAKER_00And then the prize.
SPEAKER_05Exactly. Yeah, you're you're paying for uncertainty. Uh, the excitement is is all in the reveal, and the outcome is completely out of your control. It's it's fast-paced, it's social, it can feel harmless because it's, you know, really disguised as this uh nostalgic childhood hobby, but it can also, you know, spiral out of hand very, very quickly, especially because it's it's designed to keep people engaged and just chasing the next hit. Christina, you brought up the whole concept of auctions, right? We we're talking about uh eBay. Uh, there are a handful of other platforms that utilize the auction style transactions to purchase a product. Now, a lot of these live streaming platforms have adopted the auction style. Uh so when you uh when a breaker or an individual is filling a break, they're usually selling the teams at auction. So you have all of the teams on the board. You're hoping you get one of the better teams for you know the respective product. So for instance, you know, today's latest tops chrome basketball 2020 2025-26 edition, the big chase is Cooper Flag because he's the hottest rookie in the NBA right now. So you want to get the Dallas Mavericks, right? And so in a random team break, if the Dallas Mavericks are still available, people are going to be paying a premium at auction for a random team or a chance to get the Mavericks. So it's like you're you're gambling before you even get to the actual, you know, gamble, right? And so there's another thing uh that I want to touch on real quick, and that's sudden death auction. And that means that the clock doesn't reset after um somebody bids. And that's usually what happens in a traditional auction. When the time runs out, it's over, right? Instantly. That creates this constant fear that any pause means you're gonna lose. There's no breathing room, there's no recalibration, there's no moment to, you know, sort of step ask, step back and ask if the bid, you know, still makes sense or if it aligns with your purchasing, you know, uh decisions. And so this triggers a panic response, a panic response, right? Not a buying decision. The brain shifts from like evaluation to complete survival mode. It's like bid now or it's gone forever. And so that urgency just overwhelms boundaries that might exist in much calmer uh environments, right? And then they they also kind of punish restraint, right? Waiting, thinking, or trying to stay disciplined actually increases the chances that you lose. So the system rewards impulsivity and really just like penalizes um intention. And so over time, this kind of um it trains people, it conditions them to act faster and just think less.
SPEAKER_01So you mentioned that you know, you grew up collecting. So like growing up collecting, like this was not a thing. You go to card shows, right? And and you just like like, but so when this started, who started it? Like, is this independent people that are just buying something, or is it now like companies that are that are organizing these these streams?
SPEAKER_05It's a great question, and it's something that comes up a lot. People are like, how did breaking come about? Honestly, I think I don't know exactly who started. I can't tell you, you know, who the uh who the founding father was of break culture or the you know the pioneer, but um it started out as like a concept, right? You have these expensive boxes, and this was probably around, I was saying like 2009, maybe um early like 2010s, where you know, you you had these expensive boxes at the time. People were chasing like, you know, rookie uh LeBron James or maybe Kobe Bryant or, you know, some of the players that were relevant and and um sought after then. And so they just you know decided like, hey, what if we came up with this concept where people can share a box and buy into a portion of it as opposed to having to buy the entire box? Somebody came up with the idea. It was increasingly popular, I would say, over the span of a decade. And then, like I said before, when the pandemic hit, that was really when breaking organically just caught steam and became again a phenomenon. And so these apps capitalized on that momentum. And so whatnot was formed. Fanatics got involved, they bought tops, they um entered sort of the hobby space. I mean, they were already into collectibles, it just sort of made sense for them from a business standpoint. Now there's Fanatics Live, which is a dedicated live streaming platform just for card breaks. There are a handful of others. eBay has one now, it's called eBay Live. So it's quite literally everywhere. Uh, but it it really happened, you know, organically, I I think, you know, because of the pandemic. And now it's a mainstay. It's it's the way people, you know, purchase cards these days.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I think it's interesting. Before we jump on, um, before we jumped on to record, we were kind of talking about podcasts, and you had mentioned Brian Hatch, which is a good friend of mine. And it's interesting because he did an episode where he talks about what he considers a relapse because of his card buying and very similar, kind of what you were talking about, and how he kind of really connected that with his own recovery from gambling and and that behavior. Um, but I and then you were talking about how it correlated, right, with your own gambling behavior. And of course, this is it it might look like a different behavior, but it's still the same kind of it belongs in the same circle. And and it's interesting how just compulsion in general sometimes can belong in the same circle. Like I get people who reach out to me, not necessarily for because I work mainly in the women, you know, with women in in this space, like other things like jewelry and um very, very similar, where they spend so much time and money, like even bath bombs. I had somebody reach out to me, and I'm not comparing what you're talking about to bath bombs. I'm just comparing kind of the compulsiveness of like how things can and collecting and so they would do these auctions of these bath bombs, and you would dissolve the bath bomb, and there could be the I know Adam's like, what? There could be the potential of a real jewelry piece, like a real like uh sapphire ring in the thing. So it's like you sp but this this particular woman who reached out, she had spent thousands of dollars trying to get like it's mostly costume jewelry, but then you get like a really real gemstone ring.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00And but you had but she was on like TikTok forums and Facebook forums, and she was spending her paycheck and the compulsiveness of this thing. And she was like, I don't fit in anywhere, I don't know where to go. That's why I'm reaching out to you. And you it just really hit me that when you said you came into this space, because I imagine just hobby stuff in general always kind of feels safe. Oh, that's a hobby, right? Or is that something? And so it's like when you go and you the hobby turns into harm, not being able to find spaces that meet those needs is is a very real thing.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, Christina, um you're absolutely on point, right? People love the element of excitement and chance because it taps into something very human, right? We're talking about anticipation and uh possibility and you know, this brief escape from from reality, from certainty, right? And so that moment before the outcome lands is is just really powerful. And it's where the hope and the potential and the anticipation really, you know, thrive. And um, you know, I think it's like the imagination sort of filling the gap in a way. And so the The unknown creates this emotional lift. Even if the result, result itself is, is smaller fleeting, right? Our brains are just wired to respond to this, you know, maybe, right? The possibility that something special could happen that this time could be different. Right. And so I think excitement and chance also kind of compress time. They pull us fully into the moment, you know, and it it kind of dulls some of the harder parts of life, like stress or boredom or doubt or depression or, you know, um loneliness, right? And and for a few seconds, like the world narrows to whatever outcome you're seeking. And that focus can feel like relief, which is why I think it's so compelling and why it shows up in so many different places, right? The games and the sports and the entertainment and the collecting and the bath bombs. I mean, the key distinction isn't whether excitement and chance are, you know, inherently good or bad. It's it's how often they're used, how fast they repeat, and whether they're supported by somebody's boundaries, right? Without friction or the opportunity to take a step back, pause, and reflect, take personal inventory. What starts as fun can can very um quickly shift into something that just runs on compulsion instead of like real choice, real intention. You know, people don't love chance because they want to lose control. They love it because it it's just it offers like that that possibility, that excitement. And, you know, I think the work is just making sure, you know, people are aware of this, right? So that they're they don't quietly become dependent on it. Because it can happen without you even realizing. And that's a huge part of this. A lot of these activities, like something as uh, you know, something as small as buying a bath bomb on TikTok can very quickly sort of manifest into a real addiction. And I'm not saying that applies to every single person, but there are a lot of people that, you know, they find themselves in a situation where they didn't think that they were addicted or that they have had an addictive personality. And next thing they knew, all their savings is gone. Their lives are being compromised. You know, divorce is on the table. They're having to sell their belongings or their homes. They're looking at bankruptcy. These are real life stories that we see every single week in our beer support meetings over cardboard, right? It's one thing to lose yourself in something like gambling, which has been around forever, where like, you know, you hear that the story is as old as time. Somebody, you know, goes on tilt and throws away everything on, you know, blackjack or by through sports betting. But like, we're talking about opening up packs of Pokemon cards, right? Things that children are involved with. And that in itself creates a sense of guilt and shame. People have a really hard time admitting they have a problem with something like that because they don't want to look in the mirror and say, wow, I became addicted to a toy, right? So it's all about just spreading positive awareness, letting people know that there are other people out there just like you, who are experiencing these very problems. And rather than struggling alone in isolation, you can heal in community. And so that's why, you know, this space is so important.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we know we know all about that. Um, yeah, we do. Um so I want to talk about like the warning signs that you know that you've observed in your time, but also I want to go back. You alluded to it, if you don't mind. Tell us a little bit about your experience both with this and with your gambling. And you said that they kind of intersected. And at what point did you realize, uh-oh, like this this might be an actual problem?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, it was around um the fall of 2022, where right before I got married, I got married in November of 2022, actually on my birthday. Um, so quick sidebar. I no longer get to celebrate my birthday. It's been replaced by my anniversary.
SPEAKER_00But uh She ensured that you would never forget the anniversary, is what she said. Smart lady. Smart lady.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Brilliant. Um anyway, around that time, I was living life in the fast lane. I was gambling, um, I was, you know, winning. Uh I had a ton of money that I was making on the side from playing live blackjack. And, you know, I was also doing well in my career. So I felt this sense of entitlement. I felt like, you know, I had earned the right to buy nice things and and shower myself with gifts. And, you know, I given the fact that I've always been kind of a um compulsive person in terms of, you know, just um becoming overly excited or overly passionate about specific things. You know, at one point in my 20s, I had over 500 pairs of sneakers. No single person should ever own that many sneakers. But I was so, you know, enthralled by sneaker collecting, I just lost myself. And so that was an issue in itself. But again, fast forward to 2022, um, I was gambling, but I was also joining these high-end breaks and buying, you know, these expensive boxes for myself on live streams and just sort of it became a cycle where I would buy into, let's say, a$2,500 break. I'd then feel like I needed to recoup that money, whether I hit a card worth bad or not. And so I would hop onto live blackjack on one of the apps, win the money back that way. And I wasn't the type of gambler that would, you know, be able to lose a couple hundred bucks and then walk away. Anytime I started to lose, I would double down. And it would just, you know, happen over and over again where I put myself in these situations where I'd run out of money in, you know, a particular sitting. I'd lose thousands of dollars, upwards of ten thousand dollars. And there were times where I would just keep going until everything was just completely gone. And, you know, I hit these rock bottom moments throughout my uh, you know, the throes of my addiction, where finally it came to a halt and I realized that I had a serious problem. It was actually a weekend in April of 2023 where my wife was on a bachelorette party and I just went like balls to the wall, all out, uh a 48-hour bender where I just was nonstop gambling and I lost more money than I had ever lost in one particular sitting. We don't necessarily like to talk about the amounts. You know, it's kind of arbitrary. Everybody's financial situation is different, different amounts affect different people, but I could tell you it was a lot of money. And so I thought it was all over that that I think it was like a Friday morning at 6 a.m. where I had basically gambled away the last dollar to my name. I had extended into, you know, um uh cash advances through credit cards and maxed out credit cards, just, you know, to try to um fuel the cycle. And it did not end well. And so I called my dad just in this like state of panic, and um he came and scooped me up from my apartment in Jersey City where I was living at the time. And I was quite literally paralyzed to the recliner in their living room for that entire weekend, just anticipating what I was gonna tell my wife when she got home from this trip that following Monday. And it was hell. It was, it was, I was beside myself. I didn't know what to do. And so at that point, you know, uh my parents helped me in finding an outpatient facility here in New Jersey called Right Choice Recovery. And I got into that program, I self-excluded, I stopped gambling, and um, you know, I started to slowly pick back the pieces. But the reality is you can't self-exclude from collecting or from buying, right? Unless somebody cuts you off completely financially, or you turn over your finances to uh a loved one, right? And so I was still buying the cards. I was still joining breaks, and I wasn't really getting better. It just seemed like I was getting better because I was going to this outpatient uh facility and going to GA meetings and things of that nature. And so it really just got to a point where I decided so many people are being affected the same way that I am. I need to create a space that I wish existed when I was really at the lowest of my lows. And so that's how Collectors MD was born.
SPEAKER_01I'm just I'm smiling because, you know, like the first three quarters of that sentence is exactly how I felt after, you know, once I entered recovery. So that's awesome.
SPEAKER_00Um I wasn't seeing myself in in the rooms and I wasn't hearing I wasn't seeing women experiences in the rooms. So it was like very much of let me try and create a space where I feel welcomed and where my story can be somebody else's story. You know what I mean? Like, even though I think anybody who struggled with addiction, we we can all connect on this level of it's taken over our life, it's rewired those pathways in our brain to to focus on the the reward center, everything like that. We can all focus on like those types of things, but there are so many individual parts of our story that sometimes is more relatable to women or more relatable to men or more relatable to somebody who's in the collectible world, right? Like, and so I think spaces that match our own experiences are very, very helpful, along with just broadening out and being curious about other people's experiences as well. Just like this is a fascinating conversation for me because, like, yeah, I knew Hatch's story and kind of what he struggled with, but I don't think I really understood it, you know, and and kind of the connectedness and the way that you're explaining it really opens that up.
SPEAKER_05Absolutely. Yeah, you you brought up some really great points there, Christina. And there is one other component that I'd be remiss not to share uh where it really came full circle for me. And so while I was working on building Collector's MD, let's say about six months ago, I went back to Right Choice Recovery to connect with the owner, Rob Sakowitz, and let him know what I was doing, really, you know, just taking my addiction and sort of turning it on its head to help other people. Really, that's step 12 of the 12-step program is paying it forward and, you know, um helping other people who are suffering with with compulsive gambling overcome their addiction too. And so, you know, we were talking about ways we could potentially collaborate. And um, you know, after meeting with him several times, he was like, you know what? I'd really love for you to lead some group meetings here if you're open to it. And so since September of last year, I've been running two meetings, Monday and Tuesday nights at Right Choice Recovery, leading uh, you know, uh groups for around gambling addiction. And so it was kind of like a full circle moment going from being a client there to now, you know, leading group meetings. And again, it's just I've dedicated my life, my career to this, to this journey, to this world where I just feel this unrelenting urgency to grow Collectors MD, to help spread the message, not to, you know, make money or, you know, gain followers or grow the like a company or a brand, but more so because there are tens of thousands of people struggling with this type of addiction that have zero idea that real tools, uh, resources and support are available for free.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So we're not people who who bash industry or whatever, but I'm curious where the exploitation happens on this side of the collectibles industry. Like, where are the things that really like we can name the things on the gambling side where it's obvious, right? So kind of give us some ideas of what that looks like on the collectible side and and how they kind of compare.
SPEAKER_05So, you know, collecting, I was talking about this before. Collecting used to be slow. You know, you would save up, you would go to a uh a local card shop, you would trade cards or, you know, items with your friends, and you know, maybe you would buy a a card or two here and there. Today, collecting happens online in real time with constant notifications, instant payments, and live auctions running around the clock, right? The hobby didn't just move online, it adopted the same mechanics used in gambling, gaming, and social media. And so what that means in plain terms is this people are no longer just collecting. They're chasing, they're reacting, they're spending faster and more often than they plan to, sometimes without even realizing how far it's gone until it's too late and real damage has been done. And so, you know, collectors MD exists to say something very simple and very important. Collecting itself isn't the problem. It's the way the modern system is built. So we focus on three things. The first thing is education. We want people to understand why the hobby feels so, you know, hard to control now, the speed and the randomness and the you might win big this time type of feeling, and the constant 24-7 access, all these things push the brain into impulse mode. And once people start to understand that, the shame starts to lift and clarity really comes back. The second is support. We run weekly peer support meetings for collectors who feel stuck, overwhelmed, or out of control. You know, some people do want to stay in the hobby, but with structure and boundaries. Others need distance from it entirely. And so we make room for both lanes: intentional collecting and abstinence. Intentional collecting is basically our version of harm reduction. And then third, accountability and prevention. We work with platforms, shops, and community leaders to talk about real guardrails, things like, you know, age protections and moderation and transparency and slowing systems down so that fewer people are getting hurt in the first place. And so the key idea is that, you know, people shouldn't have to hit rock bottom to realize something is is off, something is wrong. So I want to, I want to illustrate to you some of the stuff that is going on in the hobby. And again, like I say this, I want to preface by saying collectors MD is not, we're not a watchdog organization. We're not here to call out manufacturers, platforms, individuals, breakers who are doing things maliciously uh or are preying on collectors or, you know, using exploitative messaging. However, it is important to address some of these things. So, again, as part of that educating that awareness, people have a better idea, better sense of what's really going on behind the scenes. And so there are a few platforms and um manufacturers that really take a page out of the playbook of traditional gambling. And so I'm not going to say the platform that sent this message out to people. For those in the in the hobby in the collecting world, they might be able to connect the dots. But I'm just going to read you a marketing message that I received from one of these hobby platforms. Hey, it's the guy that does all the emails at said platform. You probably think this is some automated email trying to get you to come back and rip a slap pack, huh? Well, you're absolutely right. Except I wrote this email myself with a bit of help from ChatGPT. I wanted to give you a 25% discount to get you back into the action, specifically use the word action. The code will only work on gold, ruby, emerald, diamond, or legendary packs. It would be really cool if you came back and got a pack so that I can tell my boss I'm doing a good job. If you don't want to, it's all good. I'm I'll start updating my resume now. Click here to rip a pack.
SPEAKER_00Oh, wow.
SPEAKER_05I mean, that just makes me so like manipulation. Oh my god. I thought it was like tongue in cheek, and somebody, you know, uh signed off on that and was like, yeah, that's totally, totally fine, totally kosher to send out to our entire, you know, email listserv.
SPEAKER_00Um are there any age regulations though? Like because I mean a kid, I can see a kid reading that and like, oh my gosh, this person's gonna lose their job if I don't do this or whatever. And so, like, like most of us can read that for what it is, right?
SPEAKER_05Can we I'm sorry, can we just take a moment to pause? Because I think sharing my screen here would be monumental. Like, I really think it would help paint this picture. I literally don't think we can can we have a share button on the bottom.
SPEAKER_00Try, try it, click it and see what it see what it yeah, because there is a share button. So there we go. Oh, look at that. There we go. Look at that. He's teaching us something here. Yeah, go ahead.
SPEAKER_01This is a first on Evive Live. Here we go. Yeah, it is.
SPEAKER_05So there uh it's it's uh Big Justice and AJ, AJ and Big Justice. Oh, I hate these guys so much. They are brand ambassadors for the brand I was talking about, and at this point, I'm just gonna go ahead and show you. Um, but yeah, they're you they're they're exploiting child to promote to promote this um this product. I mean, it's all over. You could see here, uh, here. I'll just show the the most recent one.
SPEAKER_03Emerald and one diamond card on a reading clip, and we're counting on you to tell us which one is the best. First emerald bag, here we go. Patrick Bellows, red shiver! PSA 10!
SPEAKER_04We got a Mahomes right from the start!
SPEAKER_03I'm not even joking! This is a chase card! This was at the very top, man! Wow! Oh, that's awesome! Color match! That is good first. One more emerald. Another Patrick Mahomes! This time a rookie mahomes true jam beckon from the L series! Is that a variation? Wow, that is sick! Rookie Patrick Mahomes! And now the diamond. Let's go downtown. Or to boom, even trip Bay! And he's in the Oh my gosh, he's in the Super Bowl! He's at the Super Bowl! And he wins, this is gonna be so big! This is a sick card! It's actually a color match. There's red, white, and blue! Ho ho ho! It's a PSA 10, too!
SPEAKER_01I mean, I mean, at least he's a good actor, I guess. It feels scripted. Oh, obviously.
SPEAKER_03Patrick Mahomes Elite Series rookie? The Patrick Mahomes Red Shimmer.
SPEAKER_01But so that happens, people can open virtual packs.
SPEAKER_04And remember, you can get 20% off your way.
SPEAKER_05It's and that's that's running rampant across the hobby.
SPEAKER_01Uh there's so that is like a company then.
SPEAKER_05So that they're there some of these here's it's gone from the here's the saddest part about, and I'm only gonna call out Arena Club because they're you know, they're a huge part of the problem. Um, I grew up uh a diehard Yankee fan, and um Derek Jeter is one of my favorite athletes of all time. Honestly, like an idol to me. He is one of the co-owners of of Arena Club. And uh that when that news came out, it really just broke my heart because it made me realize that this is so much bigger than anybody, you know, ever fathomed it it would become, right? Because you have athletes and celebrities that are endorsing this type of behavior without taking a moment to pause and think, like, I have a massive platform and influence. Why don't I leverage that to help people who really, you know, could use, could use help. You see the same thing with the traditional gambling ads, all the celebrities endorsing these casinos. The one caveat, though, is that with traditional gambling, there's regulation and there's oversight. And it's a part of the corporate responsibility of these casinos and sports books to provide tools and resources, whether it they want to or not, to um organizations or, you know, platforms like 800 Gambler. And, you know, basically Promote responsible gambling, right? That does not exist in the hobby environment whatsoever. There's zero regulation, there's zero oversight, there's zero age gates, there's zero guardrails. Anybody can just log in, create an account, and just, you know, go crazy on these repacks or joining breaks or whatever the, you know, whatever it is. And so kids are being groomed and conditioned at such a young age that this type of behavior is the norm, is is socially acceptable. I mean, you heard the kids say, like, if Drake May wins the Super Bowl, this is a big card. Now, I want to add one more note here. When they've when I first caught wind that they were creating these ads, this was almost a year ago when I first started Collectors MD, they were including the value of the cards at the bottom of the screen. So he'd like hit that card and it would say like, you know,$500. And it would they had this ticker that would show how much money they were up or down based on their investment. And I left a comment from the Collector's MD account saying something along the lines of this is not okay, this is conditioning children to think gambling is acceptable, yada yada. They stopped. They I think that comment got, you know, a couple hundred likes, uh, a bunch of people just supporting, endorsing the message. They stopped doing it. And then on the following video where they took that out, I commented again and I said something along the lines of, you know, glad to see that this has been adjusted, but still the message here is an issue. Anyway, AJ and Big Justice and Arena Club liked the comments. So, you know, I'm not gonna sit here and say that we were the reason why they stopped doing that, but uh pretty pretty that didn't hurt.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um we uh I mean I've I have so many more questions, but you know, we're we're heading towards the end here. Um like a couple of like rapid fire things real quick. Like, so where does the money go? If if I if I don't get my team pulled, that money just goes to the person who's running the break. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05And and so there's no like legalities or they're not paying to I mean So whatnot requires uh the dealer, the the breaker to ship anything purchased, so a label is automatically generated. If you don't hit any cards at all, what they'll usually do, and I've seen cases where a completely empty package just shows up at the door, um, but they'll take stacks of base cards, cards that are worthless that get thrown in the garbage or donated, and they just send them to the individual. So kind of a slap in the face, actually. It's like it's like going on full tilt, losing a ton of money, and then two weeks later, something shows up at your door to remind you about it.
SPEAKER_01And then the other thing I I had written down was like as far as like content creators, like like like right now in gambling space, like we have these YouTubers who you know have all these sponsorships from the casinos and they're not using their real money. Is that happening in in the hobby side of things where people are starting to, you know, because I know that there's all these uh, and I'm gonna sound like an old man, but like, you know, the discords and the and the things, you know, the people are on Twitch, and it's just them watching them do other things, watching other people. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_05Like it's it's like you couldn't imagine. It's worse, it's honestly worse than than the gambling industry in terms of uh these influencers that are opening boxes on stream. This is just like an opportunity for the manufacturers and the platforms to get free ads, right? They send them there's there's uh conspiracies that they get sent loaded boxes, they open them up on screen, they hit the big card, and then the average collector is seeing that and saying, Wow, I want to hit that card, and they sign on the yeah, so yeah, this it's it's a major problem, and it's been it's been going on for years. There are a lot of watchdog creators, influencers that um call out this type of behavior all the time, but it's not nearly as as big in terms of the scale, the number of of people watching and and following compared to like the number of individuals that are consuming the you know, the content that's being called out.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And it's interesting because I I was just filming a podcast the other day. Um, and it this kind of even reminds me of what what she was talking about on the social casino side, where she could go on these social platforms like uh TikTok and Clapper, and they would have these live gambling sessions where you can throw money and you know they can gamble your number or whatever, whatever the behavior is, or even like pull tabs, or like, and it's just so interesting how social media has now from what you're talking about, from what she was talking about, from what we see from influencers, just how much social media is influencing all of these different spaces and really contributing to the harm. And the fact that there is no real regulation, there is no, like when we're talking about kids being, you know, we we know that in gaming, kids are are highly um shown gambling behaviors, skins in the game, those types of things. And I certainly don't want to talk about things I don't really know that much about. But it's just really, really interesting how even even in this space or all these different spaces where social media really really impacts and really creates the space to to experience more harm. Absolutely. Um can we talk about that for a second and then we'll we'll close out?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, it's it's a great point. I'm uh kids are so impressionable and they're like sponges, right? They consume any and everything around them. And so when you have these environments that, you know, on the surface are are painted to seem normal, like this is just normal child behavior. The biggest problem is that the parents don't see it. And I think the industry kind of uses the whole childhood nostalgia component to their advantage, right? Because they know that most parents are looking the other way. They're like, oh yeah, my kid's just ripping Pokemon cards. Oh, he's selling cards at a card show or online. He's learning how to, you know, transact. He's learning how to do business at a young age. It's actually a good thing. When in reality, they're just being conditioned through influence, through social media, that this is completely acceptable.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, without any conversation around the potential harms, without any and that's the thing too. It's like the kids are so much more technology advanced. Like our like the kids coming up now just know so much more. I mean, I was waiting for Adam to say the Facebook, you know, these kids go to the Facebook because that that's you know, that's our age, but it's it's just interesting how how much we have to stay ahead of that for the generations to come and to be more aware of it.
SPEAKER_01And it's just like uh, and I know this sounds super Debbie Downer, but it's like, what else can we fucking ruin? Right? Like we we we we're ruining social media, we're ruining uh trading cards and and collecting. Like, ah man, it's just frustrating.
SPEAKER_05What's the common denominator, Adam?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's it's this, it's this in social media, right? It's just greed. Yeah, like Derek Jeter, you really need to be the owner of that. Right. I mean, oh, it's so, it's so it's it's so sad, but it brings me, let's, let's, let's try to end on it. Let's come in, let's come into the end and Alex, give us, give us what gives, what gives, what gives you hope?
SPEAKER_05I wonder how I want to show you one more thing, and maybe you can squeeze this in with uh the email that I sent to Arena Club. And I apologize if this is getting like choppy or confusing. But again, I have to share this. Um, this is really important because it's another exploitative marketing email that was sent out to uh customers around October.
SPEAKER_01We can't get in trouble for this, right? For like showing all this stuff?
SPEAKER_05No. Uh uh because uh well, I'm not showing the uh the name of the provider, but I'll just say that they are they are the biggest in terms of um having equity in the industry. Uh so this is the email I personally received. Mind you, I I stopped buying on this platform, you know, a long time ago. I can't even access this account that they sent this email to because I, you know, um I either deleted it or I asked them to, you know, ban me or whatever the case may be. Anyway, it says, you've earned this, an exclusive offer built for our top collectors. Spend rip, get rewarded from Wednesday, October 22nd through Saturday, October 25th. Keep in mind that's only three days. Spend at least$10,000 on live breaks and you'll receive$1,000 in rewards. Just for doing what you already love. No opt-in needed, no hoops to jump through. How it works, make purchases of rips totaling$10,000 or more during the promotion period. Check your order history to track your progress. Receive your$1,000 reward code via email on Monday, October 27th. Important. This offer is exclusive to you as a recipient of this email and it's not transferable. All purchases made during the promotional period will count towards the offer. Orders made before or after the promotional window will not count. So when I first saw this and I saw the important, I'm thinking to myself, please be a disclaimer, please be a disclaimer, please be like a warning sign or something. And of course it's not. Anyway, who in their right mind is spending$10,000 on live breaks in three days? You know, Adam, you laughed, but this is the norm. There are people that spend upwards of$50,000 a night on whatnot.
SPEAKER_00It just takes me, it just takes me back to the days of like spending hundreds and hundreds and thousands of dollars at a casino just to get a free air fryer. Like that you could have gone to Walmart and bought for 40 bucks. Like that, that's how that math is math enemy, right?
SPEAKER_05The company that sent that email also owns a casino and sportsbook. So to my knowledge, what they did was they tapped into that marketing team and took the free play, just repurposed it. Right.
SPEAKER_01What's so funny to me too is that everything that we've talked about today, the person then has to like resell that card, right? It's not like they're winning money. Adam, right?
SPEAKER_05It's way more complicated than that. It's yes, you're right. It's not liquid at all. Um, but yes, you the whole process is first you have to hit the card. And and we're talking about layers and layers in gambling. Somebody recently called it gambling inception, uh, which I really liked because there's so many layers to actually finally getting the card. But then you get it and forget about the card you hit. It has to be in good condition. Because if it's not in good condition, it's not going to grade well. And if it doesn't grade well, you're not going to maximize your return on it. And the whole grading process takes uh takes weeks, sometimes months to get the card back from PSA or Beckett or wherever. And then once you finally do get it back, you you now have to sell it on uh, you know, a platform, whether it be eBay or Golden or Heritage or all these different auction houses, um, or you go to a card show. But it it's yes, it's a very, very complicated process. And uh no, it is not liquid. And what I always say is if you're in the hobby because you think it's an opportunity for you to make money or win money, find another hobby. Card collecting should be for people who are passionate about card collecting, who enjoy the cards, who enjoy the players, who enjoy, you know, whatever uh category it is, if it's Pokemon or Magic the Gathering, whatever it is. If you're just in it because you think a Drake May rookie card is gonna sell better after they win the Super Bowl on Sunday, find another hobby.
SPEAKER_01Knock on wood. Yeah. Um yeah, no, Alex, this has been amazing. But really quick, you just gotta tell us, you got we got to end on a high note. Like, based on the last year of you building Collector's MD from the ground up, what are some things in the space that gives you hope?
SPEAKER_05What gives me hope is the support and partnerships that we've created within the hobby, not just on the recovery side. You know, we've partnered with 800 Gambler and PGCC and of course eVive and Gamban and Open Recovery, all these, you know, uh treatment centers and organizations that support us on the recovery side within the traditional gambling space. That's incredible, and I'm so grateful for that. But within the hobby, we have uh a handful, dozens of brands that endorse our message. And so we started a movement, an initiative called Rip Responsibly. And through Rip Responsibly, we're basically spreading awareness around why it's important to pause before you spend, rip responsibly, collect responsibly, collect with intention, not compulsion. These are all things that mantras that we use. And we've had some of the biggest brands in the in the hobby back it and uh buy into what we're what we're building. And so we actually have uh a whole program where you could buy co-branded mats with your hobby logo along with collectors MD with the with the hashtag rip responsibly. Those have been rolling out across the uh the hobby ecosystem. And my goal, my hope is that as more and more hobby brands get behind this and push this message forward, it will spread like wildfire and it'll become a standard instead of an option.
SPEAKER_01Love that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Love it.
SPEAKER_05Rip responsibly.
SPEAKER_00Thanks so much. You really taught me a lot, and I I really appreciate this conversation.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, this was just thanks so much for having me on. Any opportunity to spread the message and just reach more people that we can help, that's what this is all about.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. Great. Thank you. All right, Alex, thanks a lot. Thanks for being on eVive live.
SPEAKER_05Thanks for having me.