Evive Live
Evive Live is a conversation series at the intersection of gambling harm and behavioral health. Hosted by Adam Lyons (The Modern Meeting) and Christina Cook (The Broke Girl Society), each episode features clinicians, researchers, treatment providers, peer specialists, and people in recovery having the honest conversations the field needs — about what gambling disorder really looks like, what treatment actually works, and what it takes to build a recovery that lasts.
Evive Live
Mike Scandria | Executive Director, Nebraska Council on Problem Gambling
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Mike Sciandra placed his last bet on December 14th, 2020. He knows the exact date because he tracks it on the Evive app — 1,998 days bet free at the time of recording. What followed that date was treatment, peer support work, counselor training, and eventually becoming the Executive Director of the Nebraska Council on Problem Gambling.
In this episode of Evive Live, Christina and Sam (filling in for Adam) sit down with Mike to talk about what gambling support infrastructure actually looks like at the state level, why Nebraska's skill touch machines are driving a 40% increase in treatment admissions, and what it means to advocate for people in recovery in a state capitol where most lawmakers have never spoken to someone with lived gambling experience.
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🔗 RESOURCES & LINKS
🟢 Evive — Digital support for gambling behavior change
🌐 https://www.getevive.com/
📱 Download the app: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/evive-gambling-support/id6450926060
🟣 The Broke Girl Society with Christina Cook — Community and recovery support for women
🌐 https://thebrokegirlsociety.com/
🎙️Apple Podcasts - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-broke-girl-society-podcast/id1575593868
🎙️Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/74DP23EzfR6WPpPMLYq45x
📺 YouTube Channel - https://www.youtube.com/@thebrokegirlsociety
🎧 The Modern Meeting Podcast with Adam Lyons — Gambling recovery, real talk
🌐 https://themodernmeeting.com/
🎙️ Apple Podcasts - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-modern-meeting/id1779060982
🎙️ Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/1jMSSKkadnvzbvZl33dzZc
📺 YouTube Channel - https://www.youtube.com/@ModernMeeting
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🔔 Subscribe to Evive Live for new episodes featuring the clinicians, researchers, advocates, and people in recovery who are changing how we think about gambling harm.
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Evive Live is produced by Evive, a digital health platform dedicated to gambling behavior change. Views expressed by guests are their own.
All right, Sam. So we just had a great conversation with Mike Chandra from Nebraska. He's the executive director there. And I don't know about you, but I absolutely love talking to our friends and colleagues, especially when they've taken their own lived experience and are doing such amazing work.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, Mike is a gem of a human being. I I love that guy. Um which I know gives me a very biased opinion for this episode. But I I think that there's something about having lived experience and kind of walking through the fire of, you know, the addiction and then facing the challenges that we all inevitably face when we're trying to find support or, you know, trying to build the new life. And then for somebody like Mike to be able to take his own lived experience, understand what the challenges are, and devote himself with such enthusiasm to breaking down those barriers and showing up for people in his state is just amazing. Like if everybody had 1% of the energy that Mike had in this field, like we'd be set. There would be no gambling problems.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And and just to say, anytime I see him at conferences, he's always on the treadmill. Like he's he's the guy going to like to the treadmill. Like he's he's just passionate and he's ready to to get in there and and make change happen.
SPEAKER_01And so I also think it's you know, it's really interesting talking to people from state councils because oftentimes we think about the gambling landscape as a singular thing, right? And the gambling support system is a singular thing, when in fact it's totally different. You know, every state is wildly different in terms of the products and the services and the support that they offer. So to get that firsthand look on, you know, what a state like Nebraska is dealing with, how Mike is navigating that system and how quickly a nonprofit organization like the Nebraska Council has to adapt to meet the growing needs of gamblers, it's it's illuminating. You know, I I I think it I think it will help people understand the complexity of of this topic.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. And Adam's gonna be sorry that he missed out because it was a really great conversation, but it was really great to have the founder of Evive and my good friend Sam uh there to step in.
SPEAKER_01Sorry, uh Adam Who? I'm not familiar with with that name.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I'm sure he's gonna edit that part out. Um so here's our conversation with Mike Chandra, the executive director of the Nebraska Council on Problem Gambling. I hope you find this conversation as informative and great as we did. Hi everyone, welcome to eVive live. I'm Christina Cook, and today Adam isn't available. So I asked somebody else that might fill Adam's shoes, but we're not sure. But he is the founder and CEO of eVive. Hi Sam.
SPEAKER_01Hey Christina, thank you for letting me pinch hit for Adam.
SPEAKER_00And we have a fantastic guest today. This is Mike Chandra from Nebraska. He is the executive director of the Nebraska Council on Problem Gambling. Welcome, Mike.
SPEAKER_02Thank you for having me here. I'm I'm so honored to be here with both of you.
SPEAKER_00I am honored to be able to talk to you. Like I've known you for quite a few years now. We work in the same space. We see each other all the time at different conferences. Um, but I always love highlighting the stories of people who work in this space using their own personal lived experience, right? There's, you know, you've got so many people that work in this space from different backgrounds. Um, but I really am always curious about how people got started working in the space after working on your recovery. Um, so can we just kind of start like at the beginning of your story of you've experienced gambling harm and what that kind of looked like for you?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So I am, and I want to show this real quick because of my love of the vibe app. So right here, I am 1,998 days bet free. As of December 14th, 2020 was my last day. I bet December 15th, 2020 is my first day bet free. Uh so I spent, I'm not a young man at this point. I spent most of my life uh involved in some form of gambling one way or another, most of the time being problematic. I come from a family of uh addiction. I come from a family of incarceration, of mental health concerns, other addiction concerns, substance use concerns, just chaos all around. And for me, I was born in the Las Vegas Metro, moved to Kansas when I was in grade school, but I always all the other stuff never really stuck with me. But the gambling was the one thing that always was a problem for me, even at a very young age. And it was the one thing I come from a very poor family, so it was the one thing I always did to kind of in my childhood to kind of feel like I belonged, I guess you could say. And that whole mindset really carried with me through my 20s, through my 30s. Even though I got away from my family, I moved to another state. I moved, did a lot of things in my life, educationally, professionally, that were really good and kind of got me away from that lifestyle. But I still stuck with that, leading that double life that the gambling led to for me. And through my 20s and 30s, that all stuck there. And it was not until things got really bad for me, I would say, probably in the last three or to four years of my addiction, where uh in 2020 it was a rough year for all of us, but it was a especially rough year for me. I lost my business that I was operating at the time during COVID. And that led to my gambling spiral, even more out of control during that time, uh, to a place where I was certain I had mental health concerns. I had a lot of other co-occurring issues and concerns because of that. And from there, I was just fortunate enough that I finally made the right call and did the right things on December 14th of 2020. Got myself into treatment, uh, went through one year of treatment in Nebraska, which was absolutely free through the Nebraska Gambler's Assistance Program. We're very blessed in Nebraska to have that treatment option for people. And after I got out of treatment, I went to work for the treatment center that I uh had done uh my treatment with, which was a blessing for me, is that I was able to share my story not only about my addiction, but also about my recovery with Nebraskans through my out platform, a choices treatment center. And from there, I went from doing outreach to doing peer support, uh, gaining more. I went to back to school to get not only my peer support certification, but also to take classes to become a disordered gambling counselor. I'm not a disordered gambling, I'm not a practicing counselor, but I did take the classes, pass the test for that. And so that was just me gaining more knowledge there. And through all of this, I just kept on wanting to grow my platform and really helping, going getting out there and helping people as much as possible in any way, shape, or form. Turns out that through all of this, I love working one-on-one. I love the peer support angle, but I truly love the outreach, the advocacy side of things that I was doing. And all of this kind of led to me being very fortunate that in March of 2025, I was named the executive director of the Nebraska Council on Problem Gambling. And so now I can truly work on the advocacy side. I can work to make be a decision maker in the state of Nebraska as far as helping people reduce gambling-related harm and keep our organization as well as other organizations within the state really locked in on that mission to reduce gambling-related harm for all Nebraskans.
SPEAKER_01Awesome, Mike. Thank you for sharing. And I'm excited to dig in more to the work that the Nebraska Council does and kind of the council system. But just backing up a little bit, like when you were struggling in 2020 and you recognized that you needed help, how did you find it? Like, what did that process look like? And did you run into any barriers getting connected to treatment or even understanding that treatment was available for this kind of thing?
SPEAKER_02Uh, to be perfectly honest, the process was very kludgy and very ugly for me. I had a lot of bumps along the way. So for the longest time, and I even started early on during COVID, because my mental health declined just like for a lot of people, it declined during COVID. And my way of coping, as it was all of my life, was gambling. And so I really dove in further into the gambling. Even when I couldn't get into casinos, I was going to truck stops and playing skill touch machines. I was doing a lot of online stuff, a lot of crypto, a lot of day trading, those things like that. The whole time, I never really wanted to put the gambling as the focus of why I was struggling the way I was. So I reached out to a lot of facilities during that time. And it was a tough time for anywhere to receive treatment anywhere during 2020. But I kind of led with, hey, I think I have a problem mentally. So I think that everything kind of revolved around the mental health concerns to a place where I was being diagnosed as being bipolar. I was being diagnosed for my anxiety and my depression. Well, turns out when you're in active addiction, you're going to feel a lot of anxiety, you're going to feel a lot of depression. And truly, that was my thing my whole life is that I always lived the highs and the lows. It was always a roller coaster for me. So the high highs of mania that I felt when I was either gambling or getting ready to gamble would lead to the low lows when I was either broke or couldn't gamble anymore. So that manifested like bipolar disorder. But nobody had really asked me at any point about the gambling. And fortunately, it was after a gambling event that I made the phone call to 1833 Bed Over in Nebraska, which is the Nebraska problem gambling helpline, and was like, Well, I better, I was at an emotional rock bottom. I was emotionally and I was spiritually bankrupt at that point. And so I wanted to at least pursue this. And as soon as I got into treatment for my problem gambling, things were so much different than they'd been in the past. And Deb Hammond, who was my counselor and the owner of Choices Treatment Center, she told me, she's like, let's give it 60 days, let's give it 90 days, let's not worry about any mental health diagnosis. Let's see how you do just off the bet. And it was for the first time in my life that I felt that mania go away and I felt those levels of depression go away. So for me, and I think for a lot of people out there, it's diagnosing the right things and making sure that we're so a lot of the work that I do is really talking to people, especially people who are in substance use treatment, who are in mental health treatment, who are dealing with a lot of these co-occurring concerns, talking to them about seeing what the prevalent diagnosis is and what the problems that they might be issue feeling, and if they are connected to the gambling or another form of addiction there as well, too. So I think it just took some clarity on my behalf and a little bit of luck, I'd have to say, is finally finding the right treatment, finding the right fit, and being ready to take that on when it came available.
SPEAKER_01Man, so important what you're talking about, Mike. I can't tell you how many people we talked to in the community, and just anecdotally, right? And they say, I was in and out of rehab three or four times, and they asked me if I was depressed and they asked me if I did other drugs, but they never asked me if I gambled. And when I think of my own experience, you know, at the worst of my gambling addiction was when I was struggling with alcohol consumption, right? Was when I was struggling with drug use. And it was really, you know, in retrospect, using those things to cope with the pain that I was feeling from the gambling, right? And and, you know, all of the other things that gambling was causing in my life. But those types of things tend to be more noticeable, right? Like they have some of the outward signs, and it's easy for the gambling to go undiagnosed. It's it's part of the reason why screening and that kind of like interconnected, holistic view of people is so important in the mental health and behavioral health space.
SPEAKER_02100%. And uh you know, I'm glad you brought up the screening because that's such a huge piece to what we do at the Nebraska Council and almost all the events that I do involve a form of screening there. And I have a story, a quick a quick anecdotal story here to tell is that I work with a lot of counselors throughout the state of Nebraska. And one of them I know really well, he had a person come, an individual come into treatment. I think it was their 13th or 14th time in substance use treatment, because all of our counselors in Nebraska are both LADAX and also problem gambling counselors as well, too. So they deal with that co-occurrence all the time. Well, he'd been in treatment 13 or 14 times for alcohol and drugs, and never the drugs always were he would start. So it turns out once he was asked about the gambling, it turned out he always started gambling after he got in, he would get in debt and he would start dealing again. And then when he started dealing, he would start using again. So it was just a perpetual cycle there. And nobody had even thought about putting that together. And he'd been over 10 times in treatment and nobody put that circle, that loop together. So it's important that we're asking all of this and being as holistic as possible. And you're absolutely right, the screening piece is so key to all of this.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. Christina, am I allowed to ask another question? I don't know how this is.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_01Okay, thank you. This is fun. I like being on the podcast. Um, so Mike, when I got into the field of, you know, gambling harm and helping people three years ago, I had been in active addiction for like 15 years, right? I did not even know what a state council on problem gambling was. I had no idea that there was a network here. I did not know what the National Council was. Can can you just talk briefly? Like, what is the Nebraska Council on Problem Gambling? What do you guys do?
SPEAKER_02So the Nebraska Council on Problem Gambling is the sole Nebraska affiliate of the National Council on Problem Gambling. So uh it's good to have that connection because we can piggyback off of a lot of their initiatives and a lot of the things that they do. And uh, but the main things that we focus on in Nebraska, and every state is different. That's the thing that we have to all understand is that every state in the US is different since we don't have federal funding, we don't afford treatment or federal funding for research. So every state kind of has to put together their own programs. Some states do better than others. In Nebraska, we're very fortunate that we have treatment services provided through the state of Nebraska, through what's called the Nebraska Gambler's Assistance Program, takes a little bit of money from casinos, a little bit of money from lottery, keynote, et cetera, all legal forms of gambling, puts it into a paw for outpatient treatment. But there is nothing in place in the state of Nebraska to do any sort of prevention work or any sort of education work, any sort of outreach work, screenings, those sort of things externally to get people into treatment. So basically, you're just focused on a helpline being their only kind of source, or people directly reaching out to the providers in the state. So my goal with the organization, and our organization's been around since 1992. However, it had been dormant for several years prior to me taking over as executive director. When I took over, my goal was right away is like we need to lead the way in prevention. We need to lead the way in treatment, I mean, in resources, find helping people find those resources for treatment, getting out there and really talking about it. That's what I'd been doing for the last four years anyway, is going out and talking about telling my own story and talking about the treatment resources that are out there. Now I could do it on a statewide level through a nonprofit, really let people know about those resources and let people know about the consequences. And it's allowed me to get into, I currently work with about 20 different college campuses throughout the state. I work with numerous high schools. I work with a lot of vulnerable groups within the state. I work within uh like food insecurity communities, within like even soup kitchens and stuff like that. I go into jails and prisons, which is probably one of my favorite parts of the job is going in and talking to a lot of the people that are currently incarcerated. I go into inpatient treatment for substance use, just going to a lot of places that honestly nobody else really wants to go into and have these conversations. And for me, I get the most enjoyment, I guess you could say, out of having those conversations because every Nebraskan deserves to know about these services and know about the resources that are available. And I take that, I wear that with a lot of pride that that's something that we want to do. Uh advocacy is also a huge piece to what I do. So the months of January and February are usually spent down at the Nebraska State Capitol. Uh, usually every year there's several different bills that come up that are gambling related. And although we're 100% neutral on the stance of legal gambling in the state of Nebraska, which all of the councils that are with NCPG are uh have that same stance. However, it we can still take stances on if, like, for example, this last year we were faced with budget cuts to problem gambling treatment services, and in fact, it possibly eliminating the commission that handles all the treatment side of things for the state of Nebraska. So being that I'm a nonprofit, not affiliated with the state, and pretty vocal with my story and everything else, I thought it was important that our organization led the way to ensure that those treatment services remained in the state of Nebraska. And we're very fortunate that no cuts were it ended up being made. But those are the kind of things that I look to what we do with the council as being so incredibly important because um there needs to be multiple voices coming out of the state of Nebraska. And in every state, I think there needs to be multiple voices out there. I also take a lot of pride in the fact that I do have the lived experience that I have, because not every council has somebody leading that has that same lived experience. And I really take a lot of pride in that, being able to integrate my own story. I always talk about how my story and my recovery and my lived experience isn't all who I'm made up. That's not everything about me, but it is how I got my foot in the door. And I take a lot of pride in that. And I think that's something that all of us with lived experience should really wear and be comfortable with, especially we could, but we can definitely use it in more professional ways and in ways that make a lot of impact throughout the state. And I'm glad I can do that through the council.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. And I just want to share, I just want to share a story of when you and I first met, Mike. And I don't know if you remember this. This was back back in NCPG in Boston, because that was my first conference. And and we were both there, and yeah, because you're six months ahead of me in in recovery. Anyway, we were both there, and you were walking up with I believe it was David, who is was it Dave? Who were you? Was it yeah, it was David.
SPEAKER_02Probably was David Geyer, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and he he's kind of was the person that was overseeing the problem gambling for Nebraska. And then I was there talking with Dr. Wiley Hartwell, who heads up the council here in Oklahoma. And I remember we were sitting at the table for breakfast, and and the way we were introduced was like David and Wiley were talking about like representation from their states, and Wiley was like, She's mine, and he was like, Yeah, he's mine. And it was just, it was a really kind of important moment, I think, for me. One, that Wiley was acknowledging me, but two, in that capacity, but you and I, you know, understood that we were somebody, we were people impacted, right? And we both had this desire to make a difference in our own communities, our own states, and take this path where our life kind of centers around the work that we do in recovery. And it's not a very common thing for people in recovery. And that's really how it's supposed to be, right? People recover, they do the work that they need to do, they make the changes they need to do, and they go on with life. They live a life that they don't want to escape from, right? They're doing all this work, and that is a majority of people in recovery and and should always be the recovery goals. But then you get this small subset of people who just go further, right? We want to work in the space. You've got Sam who created e Vive, you know, you're tackling the states and everything that you do in Nebraska and the work that, you know, I do with BGS and Oklahoma and Andy Vive. And like there's really amazing people who've come out of the journey of recovery and and going through those hardships. And I really just wanted to share that and get your thoughts on it as well.
SPEAKER_02Well, Christina, I know you and I are both wired pretty similar because we both have like seven different jobs within the space here as well, too. And so I think I attribute some of mine to having just a little touch of undiagnosed ADHD. And I think I hyperfocus on stuff very easily. And it is so, but a huge piece to my recovery has been this feeling. I get my dopamine now from helping people and knowing that people rely on me and my word and my mission, you know. And that's something that I was always missing in the past. I was always chasing the chasing the dollar. I had I worked in sales, I had my own business for several years. It was always about profits. It was always about making enough money, which was hilarious because that money was just going to gambling anyway. I had gone bankrupt twice with that mindset. But now working in working for a nonprofit, working in human services, I don't make the money I ever made even while I was gambling. But I have a I can go home at night, lay my head down on my pillow, and go to sleep knowing that I've made a difference every single day in a community that I absolutely love and respect. And the time, the good times and bad times, there's been plenty of good times and bad times over the last five and a half years. And the two of you on this call, especially, but so many people within this field have become my best friends. And there's a sense of community there that not only do you want to do good to help the people that really need it that are very vulnerable, but that you don't want to let your friends down in this in this field as well, too. And I think there's a lot of that that I feel here. And it's been such a great community. I've had so many ups and downs over the last five and a half years. But I know if I needed anything, I could call you, Christina. I could call you, Sam. And immediately you guys would be like, hey, what can I do for you? And I think it's more, it's more than just a job. It's more than just a calling, even at this point. It's just a community, a way of life for me now. And I definitely I have the two of you are two of the people. I'm just so glad that both of you are on here today because two of the two of you are two of the people in my life who I can't really say that are my brothers and sisters in recovery. And so that means a lot to me. But it's just really opened up a whole different mindset on my life that it's made me a better father, made me a better employee, made me a better everything and servant of God, everything in my life I am better at now because of this gift of recovery.
SPEAKER_01It's um, I mean, thank you, Mike. I feel the same way about you. And it's it's funny, like seeing the growth of the eVive community, you you see a lot of people that come in and they're pretty new to recovery, and maybe they share for the first time and they're a little nervous or embarrassed, right? They're like, Well, I know that you guys have all the answers. I know that this question seems stupid. I know that I'm not contributing anything to the conversation. And I just want to grab them and shake them and be like, no, dummy, like it's the opposite. We get so much more from you and your insight and your sharing and seeing your growth than we give to anybody, right? It's it's such fulfilling work. Um, and I I think that that is really special. And, you know, it's um, I mean, it's also working in an industry with no federal funding for programs or research and scrape and buy. Like it takes a certain person like you and Christina and me that are willing to have seven jobs, you know, to make it work. You you gotta have the love of the game. Um, but you touched on something really important when you were describing the council that I think gets lost on people that aren't um, you know, working in the field. I get asked a lot, like, what is gambling support in the United States, right? What does it look like? And the answer is there is not one thing. It depends on who you are, and it depends very much on where you live, right? Because every state has its own system. So I'm just curious, in your time over the last, you know, five years or so with uh with Nebraska, like what are you seeing, right? What does it look like in Nebraska today and how have things changed?
SPEAKER_02So Nebraska is an interesting state because it was not until 2020 where casino gambling was even put on a ballot to be voted on. So it passed in 2020. Our first casino opened in 2022. The most, the most comical question I get is oh, so um so there wasn't a problem before casinos came into play. I'm like, well, funny thing is, I had a disorder for 25 years prior to a casino even opening in the state of Nebraska. And we're surrounded by gambling of all forms in all the other states. And we've had even more gambling come into play over the last five years. But I guess the thing is that in Nebraska, we're still in our infancy, I guess, in a lot of ways, in regards to Christina comes from a state of Oklahoma where there's a casino on every street corner, I think, down there. Uh Sam, you've had different experiences with your own recovery and your own addiction story. Mine was mine involved a lot of going to other states to do my to before the internet became popular. I mean, I drove to Iowa, I drove to Kansas, I drove other places to get my dopamine. And then we had the big kind of I didn't it's not, it was a big negative turn when we got skill touch machines in the state of Nebraska in 2010. And those skill touch machines for the last 15 years are kind of that thing that's been under the table. Those are the games of skill they call them that are in uh we have them over 5,000 of them in the state in every bar, in every restaurant, in every gas station. Even worse yet, we have them in every vape shop, in every liquor store. So they're just so prevalent that we're that's what we're seeing a huge uptake in right now within treatment in the state is we've seen about a 40% increase in the last couple of years in people re-entering treatment with the skill touch machines as being their top game of choice. Where the casinos, in some ways, I work alongside the casinos where we want to see more regulation with those. We want to see more regulation with some of these outside activities. We're also currently looking to add uh mobile sports betting in the state of Nebraska. It's a going to be a ballot, it's a going to be a ballot initiative that's gonna be on the ballot in November. And so it's something that is most likely gonna pass, but it also being at the infancy, like it was great when the casinos came in because my voice was actually used to help put together a voluntary self-exclusion policy and to do things that really nobody else was thinking about within racing and gaming, within different organizations in the state. I'm hoping that within my organization that we can be a part of that when mobile sports betting comes to Nebraska, if and when it does come. And so I feel like in Nebraska, we've had to really kind of we haven't had to reinvent the wheel with a lot of stuff because we've followed the lead of a lot of other states. But I always tell people that I'm here to fill in the gaps. And I think that's what a lot of state councils are doing right now is filling in the gaps that the state can't help with or the state doesn't know what to do with. And in my case, it's about prevention, it's about education, it's about just being that person. I love it when I had, I got, I just received a LinkedIn message earlier about speaking at a conference tomorrow. I got this the other day. I love it when people reach out to me and like, hey, I know that you're somebody we can trust in this field. Can you help us with this question, that question, this event, whatever that might be? Because we just need in every every field and every form of life, I think we need somebody that we can count on. I know a guy who can help me with that. And I think for a lot of it, for me and our organization is I know a guy or I know an organization who can help me that understands gambling. And as you both know, gamblers don't, gamblers listen to other gamblers much better than they do other people that might not understand. There's already enough stigma out there, there's already enough shame. We want to connect with someone who understands how we feel, both the good times and the bad times. So I think that using my platform of lived experience, but also integrating the fact that we know the business side of things too, I think is really important. And we try to do both of that within the state of Nebraska.
SPEAKER_01And man, I think you're bringing up another really good point that gets lost on people, right? Texas, for example, there is no public health funding for gambling treatment or support in the state of Texas. And the reason for that is because there is no regulated gambling, right? There is no DraftKings or FanDuel in Texas. And so when I have conversations with people from the state, they say, Yeah, we don't need this. We we don't have gambling, right? But if you actually look at the landscape of Texas, there's like 63 poker rooms that exist through a legal loophole. There are 40,000 offshore sports books that will take your American credit card. There's prediction markets, which I'm sure we will talk about at some point. But, you know, I think there's a pretty big disconnect between what is happening on the ground in these states and where people are actually running into trouble and how the state thinks about gambling, right? Gambling is no longer the blackjack table in the casino, right? It's in the vape shop, like like you mentioned. I think there's a lot of people.
SPEAKER_00I just want to add real quick for Texas, like looking at states like that and their key like borders of states that have tremendous gambling, right? Because you look at Texas, and if you look at the numbers for Oklahoma, we're oftentimes navigating support for people in northern Texas because we have huge casinos on the Texas-Oklahoma border. We have the largest casino in the US on that border. And so you've got people coming in from Dallas. And when you look at the dots on the map and and seeing kind of where where people are reaching out to us from, you you know, it's a pretty bright area there in that North Texas. So when you look at states like that have border states, the gambling is prevalent, like the fact that those things aren't even part of the conversation just sometimes really blows my mind. And I just wanted to put that in there.
SPEAKER_01There, there was a fascinating article the other day done by one of the companies that does geolocation for sports books. You know, when you sign on, they have to make sure that you're in the right jurisdiction. And I think the title of the article was The Most Active Cornfield in the United States. And it was right across the border between, I believe, Illinois or and Iowa, maybe. Uh, do those states border each other? Wow, that's a terrible question for someone with a degree in geography. But in any case, it was about a cornfield in Iowa where people were crossing the border, sitting in the cornfield, making their bets on their mobile sports app and then driving right back into their home state. You know, it's fascinating.
SPEAKER_02We we have the same thing in Nebraska. So uh Omaha uh is connected to Council Bluffs, Iowa via the Missouri River, is in between. But the I-680, which goes kind of loops through North Omaha into Council Bluffs, uh, there's a there's grooves in the road, in the grass, in the fields there from where people have pulled off the interstate, place their bets, and turn around. There's people who want to legitimately build, like, you know, those cell phone lots that most uh airports have. There are people wanting to build cell phone lots for betting purposes there. And that's it, it there's bridges like walking bridges between Omaha and Council Bluffs that people stand on and place their bets. You see people on their phones all the time on the bridge, and you know what they're doing. It's yeah, but but for the average person in the state of Nebraska, they're like, oh, we don't have a problem with that here. Well, you're not talking to the right people here, and you're not seeing the same things that we're seeing.
SPEAKER_01And I think it goes back, Mike, to what you said earlier. You know, gamblers want to talk to other gamblers. Like the idea of driving across the border and pulling into a cornfield probably sounds crazy to most people, but man, do I get it? Like that, that that would have been me. You know what I mean? I'd be sitting in that field.
SPEAKER_02My uh, my my addiction story involves me driving to Kansas City because, which is a three-hour drive each way from Lincoln, Nebraska, where I'm located at, because I had voluntarily self-excluded from Iowa casinos back in the day, thinking, oh, that'll that'll fix me. Because you know, I'd cut up credit cards, I'd canceled bank accounts, I'd done everything, you know. Oh, because it's just a financial issue, I'll figure this out. It got to the point where I was driving three hours each way to go to a casino. And I was doing this multiple times a week. And I mean, us through us three here on this call understand how how sick and how illogical that might seem, but at the time it was very logical, you know. And to back to your point, Christina, I know people in Durant, Oklahoma. I know people that come from North Texas to go to the casino in Durant, you know, it's there's these things happen all the time. And I think that it's important the advocacy piece that I do within the state of Nebraska, state senators, and unfortunately I get to do more of it next week on a federal level, is to let these lawmakers understand that this is going on. Because for lawmakers, they can only, I mean, especially elected lawmakers, they only know what they know. They can't know everything about everything going on. It's part of our role, I think, with lived experience and being advocates uh in this field, that we're informing these people on what is actually going on and letting them know that, hey, there's problems out there that we're we're all gamblers. We're trying to be as discreet as possible. We're trying to we're so our our whole persona is built on lies and deceit, but these things are going on. And let me tell you about what's going on and what can we do to fix this.
SPEAKER_01Totally. Absolutely. So as you're doing advocacy, Mike, I think that there's a tremendous amount of power in our own personal stories. But one of the things that I have found a bit overwhelming and challenging is oftentimes when I meet with a lawmaker or I meet with somebody that is influential that works at a casino, they will tell me, hey man, you're the first person with lived experience that I've ever spoken to. Right. Usually they don't say lived experience, they say you're the first degenerate I've ever talked to. Yep. Great, right?
SPEAKER_02I've heard every stigmatizing stigmatizing language possible in those conversations. I get it.
SPEAKER_01Yes. And then they ask me to represent the community, right? And one of the things that's really challenging for me is like, I have my own personal experience, but that's very different than other people that have experienced gambling addiction. And I want to be representative of the community holistically. So as you're doing advocacy and representing people in Nebraska, and like many people that aren't even engaged in services, right? That we just know exist in Nebraska and need help and aren't finding it, how do you balance that? Like, how do you balance your representation of the community at large?
SPEAKER_02I mean, I the big thing for me is going in and telling my story, but not making sure that it's not an exclusive story, you know, and making sure that I want there to be representation of all sorts. So the great thing is that I have such a strong network of people who have lived experience, who if I come in, if I'm working with an individual who I'm working with a woman who really wants to talk to somebody else who's a woman or have connections, that I put them in touch with Christina. If obviously I let them know about e Vive, I let them younger gamblers, I have them talk to Saul Malik or somebody younger who might understand gambling, or Rob Minick, or somebody like that, put them in touch with different people that are more representative of who they are. I think when we get ourselves in trouble from an advocacy standpoint, or even just representing ourselves within our own recovery communities, I think it's when we start feeling like that we are every man or every woman out there. And so I think it's important not only to show people that all ages, races, sexes, genders, all of that are affected. It's also good just to show them that there is a community out there. Because I think so much of gambling, especially what I work with today, I did a presentation down in St. Louis a couple months ago to a bunch of college preventionists down there and talked about how much gambling behavior has become an identity for college students and young adults and teens. And so how we counteract that is by showing that we have a community as well within the recovery world. And so a five is obviously the great place for showing that level of community there and everything that you're doing, Sam. And but that's how we have to counteract this is by showing that, hey, we have a community as well. You might not want to listen to me, but there's somebody else out there who might resonate with you. So let me get you in touch with them. And I do that all the time with all the work that I do. I do some bristle sometimes and the hairs stand up on my arms when people ask me, Oh, can you, especially like reporters and stuff like that, always like, well, can you put me in touch with somebody in recovery or somebody that's uh I'm like, no, that's not. I'm not gonna, that's not my story to tell of theirs. But I do know people that you can talk to about it. But I think just the level of community that is there, we have to utilize that in our advocacy and in our support of others in recovery as well.
SPEAKER_01Totally, man. And it's I I I really agree with, you know, it's hard because this is such a stigmatized condition. And I mean, in my own life, before I started this company, and even a year into starting e Vive, nobody in my life knew about my gambling addiction outside of my wife, man, because it was it was very shameful and embarrassing for me, right? And the reason that I I share it now is because every time I do, somebody reaches out, right, on LinkedIn or email, and they're like, man, it really resonated with me, and I need help. So I think the representation is important. And I think the other piece, you know, is we've normalized gambling behavior, right? Like across the United States, everywhere, but we've still not normalized the conversation around gambling problems, right? Like, it's okay to gamble and lose. It's okay to gamble all the time, but it's not okay to talk to somebody about it. And and that is one of the things that I think that advocacy can really help with. Like, it's cool, man. There's lots of us that can't do it. And it it's been it's been fun seeing new people come into the community at eVive and basically say, Oh, I thought I was uniquely broken. And it's like, nope, we're all here, man. Welcome to the club. None of us ever wanted to be part of it, but like we are now, and it's better together, you know? Um, and and it is.
SPEAKER_02I always tell people this that we're 30, 40, 50 years behind where we were with alcohol and the war on drugs and all this other stuff there, where you talk to somebody in the 70s or 80s, they wouldn't have been so open about talking about their substance use or their alcohol usage or anything like that. And the advertising was out there just like it is now with sports books and everything else. But somewhere along the line, we uh the normalization of having those talks and being able to say, hey, I'm sober, hey, I I don't do that, I don't drink, whatever, has become something that is okay and there's no stigma behind that. We just need to get to that place. Now, how do we do that as quickly as possible is the key to the story here. But the more that we talk about it, the more that all of us that are in recovery can have those conversations. We're helping brick by brick, we're helping build that and we're helping tear down some of that stigma that's out there. So important the work that we're doing.
SPEAKER_01So important. And it's just funny, as an aside, today happens to be the four-year anniversary of when I gave up alcohol. It's like my four-year anniversary of sobriety. And I gave up alcohol. I don't know that I would ever have been diagnosed as an alcoholic. I was always very good at zero beers, and every now and then I was very good at 25 beers, and that was the problem, right? And I gave it up. And it, you know, in the last four years, I have had almost no urges to to drink compared to gambling, where I have to manage that every day, man. I have weekly urges to to gamble, right? But when I tell people that I don't drink, they're like, yeah, for sure. People are sober, you know, like it's it's very normal. But when I tell them that I don't gamble, right? Or that I won't go to a casino during a bachelor party, or that I'm in recovery from a gambling addiction, you can see it in their face. It's a it's a much different conversation, right? And uh my hope is that one day it will be as normal as the fact that I don't drink. Oh yeah, like Sam doesn't gamble.
SPEAKER_02You you know, you had a problem. And I think the big piece to that is that we have to normalize it at a younger age. It's one thing for us of a certain age to be able to say that. But when when you get into these college communities where you go to a to a floor of a dorm or you go into a frat house and everybody in there is engaging in some form of gambling, imagine how tough that conversation has to be when literally your whole social circle is doing some sort of gambling, has involved in some sort of gambling behavior. So how do we get that one person to be courageous enough to say, hey, I can't do this. It can be a problem for me. And that's where we have to start because if they start having those conversations at a young age, that will continue to grow with them as they move along. And they'll hopefully be able to teach the next generations behind them how to have that conversation as well.
SPEAKER_01Oh man, I think back to my parents all the time. And my parents are fantastic and have always been huge supporters in my life. And they sat me down when I was a teenager and they were like, sex, drugs, here's a poker table. Go to the basement. What's the worst that's gonna happen? Right. And it's not because they're bad people. They they they didn't have any concept of what gambling addiction was or or the risks associated. But when I think about prevention, like my dream state, right, is that that conversation in the normal American vernacular is sex, drugs, gambling, right? You know, it has to be included.
SPEAKER_02I have the pleasure of having an 18-year-old daughter who just graduated high school in my home. And she's, I mean, she was 13 years old when I became bet free. So her whole teenage life has been revolved around my recovery and the work that I do. And it's really interesting to hear how her, just within her friend groups, how their conversations have changed. Because my daughter's the type to say, I've I heard her maybe a year or two into my recovery when I was first started working in the field. Uh her and her boyfriend were talking about gambling, and he was mentioning something about winning that, I think it was even like a loot box or something. It wasn't even actually like uh monetary gambling in the same form that we think of, but it was like a loot box or something. My daughter said straight up, she's like, you know what my dad does for a living, right? And she just posed it to him that way. And she's told me about stories about what's gone on in her high school and with her friend group and stuff, and how she's able to have those conversations. I mean, she's immersed in it as much as anyone because she has a dad who won't shut up about his work. But uh, if we can have more people out there, so that's something I know for me in Nebraska is that I'm trying to work on getting ambassadors on each college campus that are bet-free ambassadors, I guess you could say, and really having those conversations and really being courageous about who they are. And I see that as my kind of my next evolution to the work that I'm doing in Nebraska is really building up that group of ambassadors so that young people will have those conversations. Because we know that a lot of their parents at home, I hear this every time I do a screening table or give a classroom presentation. I get at least one person come up to me. Hey, I think my dad might have a problem. Hey, I think my buddy has a problem. I know somebody in my life who's struggling. What can I do to help them? So I know this generation really wants to help. And I think it's just about giving them the tools to know how they can do that and be courageous in that. So then that's our responsibility, I think, as people who have struggled with it and can tell those real raw stories in order to make sure that we're providing those tools.
SPEAKER_01And I think the ambassador kind of peer-based approach is so important, especially on college campuses, right? Because that old school kind of dare programming, right? Don't do drugs, kids. It's it's not resonant, right? But when your friend is like, hey, Johnny, like, you know, if you're having trouble, like here's a resource. It's just so much more impactful, you know?
SPEAKER_02It resonates a lot in the advocacy world too, because when I go in, especially to committee hearings at the state capitol in Lincoln and talk about my own experience. And I tell them that I go in under a neutral stance, I go in not anti-gambling, I tell them I'm neutral about legal gambling options. I no matter it's always I get conveyed senators come back to me and be like, how can you have spent 30 years essentially ruining your life with this behavior and not be against it? It's because the fact that I'm neutral is the fact that they're listening to me, though. And if I went in with this fire and brimstone message, then people's ears shut down, you know? And you have to, it's 2026. Reality is that gambling is normalized everywhere. So let's have these conversations. Let's make sure the people who need the resources get the resources, and let's make sure everybody else has the resources to avoid gambling-related harm in general. And so I think we can take that from the advocacy side and we can take that from a support side as well. Is let's have realistic conversations and let's meet people where they're at.
SPEAKER_01Amen, man. One of my frustrations is like we keep having this macro level conversation of like, should we put the genie back in the bottle? And it's like, you can't put the genie back in the bottle. Like the time for that conversation was 10 years ago before we did this. It's out now. It is borderless, it is digital, it is everywhere. It does not matter what your state laws are. Gambling is in your state. Let's help the people that need the help. Let's help the people not experience the harm. Like, let's focus on the support. I'm I'm with you.
SPEAKER_00And I feel like too, sometimes, I feel like sometimes too, like with media, especially, um, that we glamorize the the issue or the problem more than we actually glamorize the support and the resources, right? That's everybody's always looking for, I get so many media interviews of like, can you connect me with women who are struggling with sports budding? And I'm like, well, there aren't that many, but even if there are, they don't want to talk to you. And it's just like they just want to, they want to latch on to the story of the problem instead of latching on to what the solution is. And I think that, you know, that's right now is kind of what's being seen and what's being experienced. And it it just becomes this bigger issue of like if we can glamorize more on the solutions, it's like there nobody has the perfect answer, but if we would focus on how many people had an answer to the solution, then maybe we could get there a little easier than all the focus on the problem. But to kind of tie it up, like we could talk about this all day long, but we kind of have to move this episode towards a conclusion, shall we say?
SPEAKER_01Um You let me pinch in for Adam, and obviously I'm gonna just go way over time. So this is good. He he his job is secure.
SPEAKER_00I'm gonna let Sam, I'm gonna let Sam uh ask you the final question.
SPEAKER_01I get to ask you the final question. Okay, Mike. So we ask everybody the same final question that comes on on eVive live, and we always like to to end on a positive note. So, what gives you hope regarding the future of problem gambling support in Nebraska or anywhere?
SPEAKER_02What gives me hope, I guess you could say, is these conversations today. Having a conversation with two people that I truly consider friends, that, and I know I have hundreds of friends in this industry who are all brothers and sisters in recovery. That's what gives me hope every single day. That I still have good days and bad days. I have ups and downs. Life happens to all of us, but I know that this life in recovery has given me the best friends I've ever had in my life. And I think that's something that hopefully the people within your community at evive and just people out there who might be listening to this understand is that there you can gain hope and you can gain a whole new sense of purpose from this community of people out there who are embracing recovery. Some of us might, some of you might not be as loud as we are about our recovery, but uh you still can find community within that. And that's what gives me hope. And the more, unfortunately, there's gonna be more people who struggle and experience gambling-related harm. But hopefully that means that there's gonna be more people in recovery, then that community grows and grows as well, too. And it gets to a place where that this group of people becomes so loud and becomes so connected that great things are gonna happen and they're already starting to happen, and we just need to keep moving the mission forward.
SPEAKER_01Awesome. I love that, Mike. Um, and I guess just to end, like if someone listening is in Nebraska and they need help, what do they do? How do they get a hold of you?
SPEAKER_02So the best thing to do is if there's immediate crisis and help that you need, the Nebraska Problem Gambling helpline is 1-833-bet over. However, if anybody would like to check out our website and get no more information, all my contact information is listed on our website. It's www.necpg.org. So please, by all means, follow me on there. I'm active on almost every social media as well. So just please reach out to me. Please reach out to our website. Whatever support I can give, I'm happy to do it. Happy to be that extra person. Even if you're already getting support, just having that extra cheerleader on your side. I'm always happy to be that as well.
SPEAKER_01Awesome, man. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Thank you so much for all of the amazing work that you're doing. And uh, yeah, man, it's always great to catch up and thank you for shedding light for a lot of our listeners on like, what is a council? What do these folks do? Where do they come from? It's great, man.
SPEAKER_02Well, thank you very much. I appreciate the opportunity. It's always great to talk to both of you.
SPEAKER_01And thank you, Christina, for allowing me into the uh the sacred circle of eVive live. It's fun.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think you did great. I think you did great stepping in. And uh we'll see. Adam edits this, so we'll see how much of your part really gets put in, Sam.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, we'll see Adam coming out.
SPEAKER_00There'll be like voiceovers with Adam's voice, like responding to your questions. Perfect. Yeah. All right. Well, thank you. Thank you both so much, and um appreciate it.
SPEAKER_02I thank you very much.