Access more. Welcome to the Theology of Business Podcast, where marketplace Christians explore God's will and ways for business. This show features conversations with today's Christ-centered business leaders who are representing Christ faithfully in the business world. I'm your host, Darren Shear, and if you want to make your work, leadership, and company's culture more Christ-centered, you've come to the right place. Hi everyone, and welcome back to the Theology of Business Podcast. I'm your host, Darren Shear, and this is the show for marketplace Christians seeking to explore and apply God's will for business. On this episode, we're joined by Al Lopez. Al is the co-founder and board chair of the Best Christian Workplaces, founded in 2002, and they provide research-based measurement tools and culture change advisory services with a single vision, and that's to help Christian organizations set the standard as the best, most effective workplaces in the world, as we should be. At uh BCWIL has conducted the broadest ever employee opinion survey of Christian workers. This survey includes more than 300 churches and over 1,500 Christian organizations overall, representing 300,000 full-time employees around the world. And so their research is not just based on theory, but it is based on research. It's based on actually asking the workers. It's not just asking the CEOs how the culture, uh, what this, what the condition of the culture is, but asking people at all ranks of the organization. And he also publishes a weekly blog highlighting a best Christian workplace and also hosts the Flourishing Culture Leadership Podcast. Al, welcome to the Theology of Business Podcast.
SPEAKER_01Darren, it's great to be back. What a pleasure to be here. Thank you.
SPEAKER_00Yes, sir. So, Al, one of my favorite stories of the impact that's been made by you by Best Christian Workplaces is the way that you've helped Sonic Air. And uh, I got to interview Brad Carr about that transformation. And he was testing, I shared it in the book, The The Christ Center Company, about how when you came into their company, they had a toxic workplace culture. And and by the time they had gone through your process, tell us kind of the outcome from that.
SPEAKER_01Well, this has been gone on now for several years, Darren. And you know, Brad and his team uh are one of our favorite ministry partners. We call our clients ministry partners or mission partners. And and you know, it started out where uh Brad had a leadership team and they weren't going in the same direction, and it really caused him a lot of grief. In fact, uh, you know, he graphically described it that Sunday night he just had this uh feeling of dread come over him because Monday morning he was uh faced with uh going to hell as he described it. And uh and uh he realized again uh after after our survey and working with him uh to kind of identify what the issues were, he he realized that yeah, his top leadership team needed to get on the same page and move in the same direction. So they began to began to articulate for Sonic Air what kind of culture they wanted to have and in what direction they wanted to go in. And this happens uh so often that he realized that they weren't going in the same direction. And over time, over a period of two years, that uh there was dramatic change in who was in that leadership team. And then once the once the the team that you know developed trust with each other and had a similar alignment in terms of direction and purpose and mission, then things really started to take off. And he went from uh what we call a toxic culture, a culture that's you know, stifled and closed and not sure what the direction is and low employee engagement. Uh uh, they went from that to something that over time, uh in a short period of time to a flourishing workplace. And and I uh uh I asked Brad one time, this was a couple of years ago now on a podcast, uh, so did this have any impact not just on your employees, but uh did it have any impact on your bottom line? He said, Well, last year we grew 80 percent. I almost fell off my chair. You know, it's like what what kind of when a leader says that they're their their top line and bottom line both grew about 80 percent in one year because of the health of their culture, um, it's like, amen. Um, and it's had an impact, you know, here at the the idea of theology of work, um, it's had an impact on how the employees are willing to receive uh the gospel message uh just based on their interaction in the workplace. But you know, um it's a great team and and he has really focused on, and I'll give you a couple of examples, you know, he's he's given people opportunities to use their unique gifts and skills that God's given them uh in new ways. So, you know, he he would have somebody that you know had some ideas, right? From the shop floor, he he described somebody that had ideas relative to their website and what should be on the website. So he he transferred them. He he said, you know, yeah, take over this. And and the person flourished. I mean, he just uh expanded and was able to bring new things to the company because Brad had given him a chance to use his unique skills and abilities. And he did the same thing with uh a person who was uh you know, like an administrator and moved them into human resources because of their uh competence and care for people. And and and he just you know looks at and loves to uh the as EOS describes it, uh you know, the inspirational leader, uh, uh the uh the visionary leader. He he's the visionary leader and he loves to go around and and find opportunities where people can can grow. But yeah, that's uh uh that's a great example.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And Sonagare is one of the many C12 companies, uh, which is an organization that I know both you and I absolutely love. Um, and and so for anyone who's been listening to this podcast, you know who C12 is. But if you don't, they're the largest network of Christian CEOs and executives in the world. And you did a special research study of comparing C12 companies with other for-profit companies that weren't affiliated with C12 and found that more than twice as many companies affiliated with C12 develop flourishing workplaces than other for-profit companies. Um, why is that, do you think?
SPEAKER_01I believe it has a lot to do with C12's focus. And uh and the focus is you know, that business's mission is uh is a key part of what C-12 is trying to do. And and for a business to actually have a Christian purpose, uh, especially with employees, well, employees have to have to have a good experience in the workplace. Uh, you know, if you've got a toxic workplace and and you know, there's poor leadership that uh doesn't have uh uh you know the care, the compassion, the competence that leaders need to exhibit, then they're gonna have a bad experience. And if they have a bad experience, that then puts a bad light on the on the gospel. But if they're having a great experience, if they feel, you know, and we've we've identified the eight keys uh in my book, Road to Flourishing, eight keys that build employee engagement and in the sense of well-being in the workplace, then if they experience that flourishing type of a workplace culture, then they're they're wide open to hearing, well, what what makes this place so effective? Uh, where people care about one another, where we all working together to accomplish something that's meaningful and and um yeah, that's that's what we see. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00There's accountability with that when you have a higher uh purpose, uh a deeper mission for what you're doing. It's not just about making sure that the owner can take the vacation, the the vacations that he wants and buy the cars that he wants and all those kinds of things, but it's it's like Paul said, so that we might not discredit the ministry. Like when your business is your ministry, I mean, that's gonna raise your game, that's gonna raise your standard for what's acceptable and what's not, isn't it?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it is, it is absolutely. And you know, I believe that uh if we follow the gospel as leaders, it works and good things happen, you know, because uh uh uh we're responsive to God's desire and intentions. And uh, and so I've always believed, you know, in the in the in the marketplace and now the last 22 years in Christian as working with in Christian uh workplaces, including uh Christian for-profit businesses, that uh the gospel works, um, you know, because God designed human beings, didn't he? I mean, you know, so so he knows how it is that we should uh uh actually behave and and and uh interact with each other uh for for positive relationships, uh as you know, as heaven on earth is what uh what he wants. Yeah. So yeah, it works.
SPEAKER_00Well, certainly no company is is perfect, especially when you start working with them, when they're in that toxic stage. What what are some of the statements? Because you're when you go into these companies, people have got to know that you're having everybody, uh, you're surveying everybody. So if it's your first day of the job, you're getting surveyed because you have a unique perspective on the culture of this organization that the CEO, the owner, might not be uh able to see or might not be willing to admit. But what are some of those statements that you have heard that um where the the employee is basically saying, yeah, I I know they say they're a Christian company, but uh that's not what I'm experiencing here, or this is actually leading me away from God. Do you hear things like that in these surveys?
SPEAKER_01Absolutely, you know, and I was just thinking, well, uh, our survey is a combination of uh quantitative research where we ask some specific closed-end uh five response like it scale questions, and then there's the open-ended questions. You know, what makes this a great workplace? What would you like to see improved? Now that's where we see those kinds of questions, and uh and it's always interesting. We learn a lot from them, and uh absolutely that's what we hear. And and what we've seen is that there's there's eight keys that drive employee engagement where people will say, hey, this place, this place, you know, people care about one another, they love each other, it works well. Um and and you know, the eight things that we've we've discovered are important is is that there needs to be fantastic teams, there needs to be life-giving work uh where people feel like they're able to bring their themselves, their full selves to the workplace, their their skills, their gifts uh are being used uh in the workplace, they're in the right jobs, which leads to outstanding talent. And then there's uplifting growth where we have opportunities to learn and grow in the job. And and if we're rewarded, uh you know, rewarding compensation is another factor. Inspirational leadership is the most important of the eight, but we also have to, they also employees have to feel like we're going in a positive direction, a sustainable strategy, and there has to be healthy communication. And and that's where our factor analysis of all of this 300 and uh thousand employee uh responses tells us, yeah, these eight things are what really drive employee engagement in uh in the workplace. And it and if you're if those eight things are clicking, they're they're employees are gonna say, I see a positive place here where okay, I'm open. Um, because a lot of people have, you know, even earlier in their career, they've they've worked in toxic workplaces, and they're and and there's such a difference when it's a flourishing workplace, and they're open to hearing uh the gospel, there's no question. Yeah, and at least willing to ask the questions. So, and I think, you know, as Christians, I hope we've all been asked, there's something different about you. What is it? And and help me understand. And hopefully our our answer is well, it's because the the spirit of God lives in us. Uh, and that's what uh what causes us to be different than what we might expect, what you might uh run into in the in the marketplace on average.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Oh, my my experience has been, and this is what I've observed uh among other people as well, that the primary place where we're discipled is in our workplace, because that's where we spend the majority of our time. I'm curious, in your research, what impact have you noticed the company's culture having on people who work there? Uh, not just on the culture itself, but what not not just the impact that individuals have on the culture, but what is the impact of the culture on the individuals that affects them and even changes them uh after they're after they're gone, after they move on from the company?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So how do people experience culture? Uh, you know, that's well, what a great question. You know, as I I think about what I've what I've seen and what I've heard and experienced uh doing focus groups over and over and over again, that in flourishing workplaces, people feel like they're they're actually cared about, where there's a people first orientation, where there's high levels of trust uh between in in relationships and uh where there's where people and leaders particularly are authentic and accountable, and where there's there's good communication, where there's collaboration between teams, and there's uh uh you know a positive forward-looking out outward outlook, and where even people are able to bring ideas forward where they can actually take a little risk and for the sake of innovation. Uh, and when you have that kind of an environment, you know, where people are all in, uh it's like, oh gosh, you know, they want to contribute. I mean, I think everybody who comes to the workplace, they're not just looking for a job, they want to make a contribution that's meaningful, that has purpose. And so when you go home, and then when you go home at night after a job like that, you know, you take that with you, you know, you don't kick the dog. Uh you uh you know, you love your family and you you're then loving your community and uh trying to help out and be a part of your community more broadly. Whereas whereas if you're uh going home after being involved in a toxic workplace, it's just the night and day difference. And again, we've all probably worked in some combination where that, you know, we're where we've had a toxic workplace that's just highly political and stifled and closed, and where where there's broken trust and and you can't trust people, there's a high level of fear, you know. Oh, you you come home and you're you're just drained and there's no energy. And you know, that impacts you know your family life, your relationships with your friends, and it impact, you know, it um uh and it causes you to not really want to get involved outside of uh outside in other activities. I mean, that's that's been you know, even my own personal experience.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah. A couple of years ago, I had a very sobering moment when one of my employees, she said, um, because we tend to be kind of transactional in this business, yeah, I have found myself becoming more transactional with people, and I don't like that. She said, she said. And that just that just smacked me across the face. Um, and it was so convicting. And I and I I realized, you know, that's a that's a weakness that I have. And and yeah, that's going to show up in the culture, and she's gonna end up taking that home with her and starting to relate to. So I mean, if you're if your experience is that you're there's yelling that goes on in your workplace, uh, that things like that, it's gonna be fairly likely that there might be some yelling, more yelling going on in your employees' homes, yeah, as a result of what they're experiencing at your company. Is that what you're observing?
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. And yeah, yelling is a good example. You know, it's uh when when we we ask the question amongst uh uh faith-based uh or you know, Christian not-for-profit organizations, uh, we ask the question, leaders exhibit the fruit of the Holy Spirit. You know, again, imagine rating that on your leaders on a five-point, you know, strongly disagreed, uh strongly agreed scale. And when when the statistical uh analysis, when we do a factor analysis, the the first question that comes out to build the most important driver of employee engagement, that's the first question that comes out. Leaders exhibit the fruit of the Holy Spirit, uh, love, peace, patience, kindness. And and when leaders do that, then then that's the foundation of a uh of a you know a flourishing workplace. And when when you experience something that's not that, that's exactly what you're describing. You know, people, you know, people shut down, they don't open up. Uh, and when, you know, people don't want to be shut down, they want to, they have to feel like, you know, and we we talk a lot about you know, environment of safety, you know, uh, if we feel safe, then we're gonna be willing to to uh contribute at a higher level. But I also think about you know the community that leaders are creating in the workplace. And and um I love your is it a transactional community where relationships are just based on you know getting things done, or or is it more of a transformational community that's beyond just transactions? And and when you've got relationships built on trust, built on integrity, uh, and those are questions we ask. There's is there a high level of trust between leaders and employees? You know, did leaders demonstrate uh fairness and integrity? These are questions we ask. And when when there's uh high levels of trust and integrity in a in a real in an organization, then then you know you see a broader sense of community, no question, which which people are drawn to intimacy and community uh much more than they are when we're rejected in our workplace. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And you all study a lot of churches as well. Have you found that? And I I think I probably know the answer to this question, um curious your perspective. Do churches tend to have healthier workplace cultures than for-profit companies?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I've I've thought about that a lot, Darren, and that's a great question. Um, and here's the here's this was interesting. When I in my previous role, I was the regional uh uh managing consultant for a human resource consulting firm. Uh it's now called uh Willis Towers Watson. It was called Watson Wyatt when I was there. And and one of the things that we did was we worked with the statewide business magazines in Washington, Oregon to measure uh business uh workplaces, you know, the best companies to work for was the was the monthly publication that that came out, uh, one of the months. And uh again in Washington and Oregon, we had a lot of data of business uh uh results. And then I started working with uh and creating the best Christian workplaces, and and after a couple of years, I started to look at the results of okay, so what's different between Christian workplaces and the secular workplace? And one of the key things that came out was there's less trust in Christian workplaces and including churches, uh between uh leaders and employees than there is in secular workplaces.
SPEAKER_00Really.
SPEAKER_01And it should be the other way.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01You know, it should be the other way. And so I've often been asked, so why do you think that is? Why is why was there lower trust in Christian workplaces? And I think the standard for leadership is higher in Christian workplaces. And if people aren't reflecting, you know, the fruit of the spirit, as I mentioned in this question, if they're not bringing a sense of Christian fellowship into the workplace, then it then it breaks down. And yeah, so the expectations are higher. So as we've worked with uh churches specifically, what we found is uh, and this is broadly true in Christian workplaces, a lot of focus on vision and not a lot of focus on how things work and operational excellence. And and another actually that the highest correlated question that we ask in uh in our survey is our organization is well managed. So, how would you answer the question, my organization is well managed? And that is the highest correlation to overall employee engagement, which is this it's an operational question. You know, when you put in a new program, is it well thought through? Is it uh is it gonna work? Does it cause it because if it's not well thought through, it causes tension in relationships and it breaks relationships and that breaks the sense of the culture. And so, yeah, uh competence related to uh operational excellence is is often missing in Christian workplaces. And the other thing is we also don't know how to deal with conflict very well, and we have the Christian nice culture, and and as a result, true relationships, uh true the issues don't get resolved and they just build up silently, and ultimately, of course, they explode.
SPEAKER_00But yeah, yeah. So that's so does that mean that churches tend to score lower than businesses or about the same?
SPEAKER_01I'd say about the same as the answer at this point. Um, and that's based on our database. And again, we're we're working with over a hundred for-profit businesses and hundreds of churches, and uh the focus on culture, I'll have to say, Darren, in churches has really changed and and improved. There's you know, you you listen to um Craig Rochelle talk about leadership in churches, and culture is a key issue. You talk about the global global leadership summit, culture is a key issue. So over the last 20 years, it's been a uh a huge change uh in terms of the church workplace and and the importance of having uh uh culture and measuring. You know, we've we still are the the only tool that measures uh the health of workplace culture.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's improved over the last 10 10 years you're saying yeah, just because that's where the attention has gone. Yeah, you know, there's been a lot of a lot of scandals in recent history, and culture has been, you know, toxic culture. Yeah, that that's been one of the the main accusations, yeah, right. And who's primarily responsible for that? It's the it's the leader.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, the leaders create the culture. And and oftentimes, again, uh what we've seen, you know, in the in the past, uh, Christian leaders, church leaders, uh, there's there there aren't courses in seminary about creating healthy workplace cultures, and uh, but there's been much more of a focus on on leadership and creating uh healthy cultures now, uh, from my experience.
SPEAKER_00What is your definition of culture?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so so um the way I like to talk about culture is uh it's the shared beliefs and values of a group, you know, expressed in the way things are prioritized and uh the decisions are made and above all behaviors. So uh it can be intentional or it needs to be intentional, uh, because if it's accidental, it will go awry. So uh and oftentimes it's uh a culture is what leaders allow uh to happen in in an organization. And um, you know, I'd think about um when I was leading uh a consulting uh team and a couple of different offices. I used to describe, you know, again, as a Christian, I was trying to figure out how I can describe uh I want a culture of love and mutual respect. And I felt that that was a little soft, that it wouldn't necessarily catch people's attention. And I just then described it, I want to have a jerk-free culture. And people loved that idea. We love, you know, let's just really love the idea. And you know, so I then had to describe what what jerk behavior was and what uh what we wouldn't accept. But yeah, it's uh it's what it what are the beliefs and the values of our group. Another way I like to describe culture is just the way we do things around here is uh is uh the the easier term. And in my book, uh Road to Flourishing, I describe it that way. It's just it's how we do things around here. And it's amazing how even in Christian, you know, businesses or Christian workplaces, how you know, even as believers, how different things are from one organization uh to uh to another. But yeah, culture is the is established by the behaviors of the people in the group and uh and who creates culture? Well, it's the people with uh perceived authority and status, uh, which is usually the leaders.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah, that's very similar to the definition I landed on as well, um, which is the culture is the defining habits of a group of people. Yeah, you know, because the culture, it's it's not just the values, but it it's it's even the language that's used. And the like you said, it's what we accept as normal. It's the the types of uh the quality of the work that we do. I mean, all of those things that the causes that our company gives to, and the types of causes we don't give to, those are cultural expressions. And and and that's what is discipling people. So a disciple is a person who's been uh who has adopted the habits of that culture.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So your employees are disciples, and hopefully your culture is is Christ-centered and is not leading people away from Christ.
SPEAKER_01And I also think of uh a key part of uh of a culture is uh again the definition of employee engagement. And are people actually bringing their whole selves, are they fully engaged in in the workplace? And I think of it not only as it an employee's uh intellectual, but their emotional connection to the workplace, to the employer. And uh is there, you know, and we see this in uh in Christian workplaces because people have such a deep passion for the gospel. And and when that when that passion is actually reinforced in the work, uh boy, it's uh it's really uh uh an emotional connection, especially in Christian-owned workplaces, Christian-led businesses, let me just say, uh, to have an employee who, yeah, they're really emotionally connected, you know, to the employer. And hopefully because uh they're doing such good work and the way they're doing the work, where they have a culture, you know, that uh uh where things are done the way they'd like to see them.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Well, on that particular metric, uh, I guess most of us would assume that that if you're working in a church and you know, your church is preaching the gospel and serving the poor and you know, all these kinds of things that are uh expressions of the gospel, that they that they might score their organization higher on that metric, as opposed to, for example, if I work at Sonic Air and I am um I am I am making sure that they're providing fugitive dust solutions, yeah, right? That's what they do. Um so that people's factories don't blow up because of uh you know sawdust particles and and that sort of thing. Um, do you find that that particular metric is mostly equal? Or if I work in a church, do I feel more uh like my work matters more than somebody that is working in a in a factory?
SPEAKER_01You know, when we look at the results of sonic error versus results in a church, uh you'd find uh for a comparable flourishing workplace, it'd be similar, you know, and uh and not everybody's called to do church work, but uh, and and I believe that uh it's an equal calling to to uh minister in the in the workplace, to actually take your gifts, your spiritual gifts, your skills, your capabilities, your competencies, and uh and work in the workplace. So, you know, uh yeah, we see people are equally engaged. I mean, to save people's lives in in uh in buildings by building fans, you know, well, yeah, we might not think that's as uh meaningful as uh uh helping people find eternity, but also, you know, for a lot of people, help they're helping people find eternity uh in their uh in their workplace culture, you know. So yeah, so that's that's engaged. We're talking about people that are engaged, they're they're working with passion, they feel a profound connection to their to the mission, and they're they're helping to drive innovation so that they can do it even more effectively. That that's those are the things that you want. Um then on the other side of the scale, you know, and this is true in churches as well as uh companies, uh, we have actively disengaged. And and this is uh again, you want to manage this culture so that people are engaged versus being neutral. Uh neutral is when you know they don't give discretionary effort into their work. We we all know what that looks like, but then actively disengaged and in in Christian businesses, you know, we're seeing that uh that you know, six or seven percent um, and that's the same in churches, are actively disengaged, you know, where they're unhappy at work, uh they make their unhappiness known. We know what that sounds like. Uh, and every day these workers are they're undermining uh what engaged coworkers are accomplishing. And and if you're neutral or disengaged, you know, that's costing, we've we've found the research, that's costing an organization sixteen thousand dollars a year because of that. So so we're actually seeing how, well, let me say culture impacts engagement, and then then engagement uh impacts how long people stay and how effective they are in their job, and then that impacts uh customer uh satisfaction, which impacts loyalty over time, and as you have more and more loyal customers because people are actually providing a great uh service, then you see revenue growth and profitability and uh not only that, but impact in terms of uh ability to share the gospel.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I see that as the value chain through the process.
SPEAKER_00That's right. Yeah. Although the website, bcwinstitute.com, I think you might have another URL as well.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we we've changed that. Uh we've rebranded as simply workplaces.org.
SPEAKER_00Like it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, workplaces.org.
SPEAKER_00It's a great domain. Um, so once somebody reaches out through workplaces.org, uh, what's what's like the first major step that the company is gonna go through as part of the the onboarding?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we we go through a stage called discover, and we want to discover the health of your workplace culture. And uh we do that uh with our primary uh uh way of doing that is through our engagement survey. So it's uh for uh Christian-owned businesses, it's a 52-question survey of uh you know that your employees complete, and then we provide a report back and a customized executive summary to your leadership team, and that will identify exactly what the priorities could be to uh move forward uh and to help you then build. That's the second step, is build the plan for building uh and moving towards a flourishing workplace, and then grow is the third stage, and uh, and that is to implement the plan so that your uh employees will uh uh be able to grow your culture towards a flourishing culture. So uh yeah, discover, build, and grow is the step. But the first step is uh is the employee engagement survey, and and uh we find leaders find it very helpful. And you know, back to your point earlier, Darren, you were just talking about how how you were talking with an employee who was who was telling you about a transactional workplace culture versus a transformational one. What you did there is you listened and you created an environment where where you know somebody could share that with you and and you took it seriously. You you and that's what we find is leaders need to create ways where they can listen to their employees and and in a way that's structured so that it can be actionable uh going forward. So yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yes, yes, we've gotta keep those lines of communication open for sure.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00Well, Al, this has been fascinating. And I know that our our listeners are encouraged, giving us a lot to think about. Workplaces.org is the website where people can go and everybody go take the next step and inviting Al and his team to come in and um and and hold up the mirror and show you what your the state of your culture is so that you can identify those areas uh to grow and improve because your workplace is where people are being discipled. And that's the great commission, and and that's the the responsibility that we have for those that we influence in the workplace is to disciple them as followers of Christ. And that's gonna look different than it does if you're uh working in a in a church building, uh, but in in the workplace, um, that culture is what is discipling people. That's what the Holy Spirit is working through. Uh so Al, thank you so much for spending uh some more time with us. Um, really always enjoy talking to you.
SPEAKER_01Thank you, Darren. It's really been a pleasure, and I appreciate the work that you're doing. And uh, and I'm so glad you've written this book called The Christ Centered Company.
SPEAKER_00Thank you so much again.
SPEAKER_01Thank you.
SPEAKER_00Thanks for listening to this episode of the Theology of Business podcast. Be sure to subscribe, leave a review, and tune in for the next episode as we continue exploring God's will and ways for business.