Welcome back to the Christianity and Business Podcast, an initiative of the RTW Dunham College of Business at Houston Christian University. I'm your host, Darren Shear, and this is a show that helps Christian business leaders to integrate biblical values into business. On this episode, we're joined by Kurt and Kristen Ludhart. Kurt and Kristen are the co-founders of the Prosper Group, a leading digital agency in Republican politics and conservative advocacy, which was established in 2006. So they've been a part of a lot of people getting elected, a key part in a lot of people getting elected. Under their leadership, the firm has played a pivotal role in the election of 103 members of Congress, 15 U.S. senators, 14 governors, and one president. I assume this is updated information. Do we need to add any? I know there's a couple of elections that were still pending.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well, I mean, since we sent our bio over, we've got one more governor elected in November. So we we now can say 15 governors. Awesome. Uh and and you know, I think another member of Congress, we might be up to 104. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So yeah. So their innovative digital strategies have garnered over three dozen awards, and their expertise has expanded extended internationally, working on campaigns and advocacy efforts in Mexico, Brazil, Ireland, and Belgium. And in addition to their political victories, Kurt and Kristen are leading experts in the Liberty Spenders Market, a $5 trillion economy of conservative and Christian consumers who prioritize spending with brands that share their values. And they've been married 20 years and have a two-year-old and a four-year-old, which is just awesome. Awesome. Kurt and Kristen, welcome to the Christianity and Business Podcast.
SPEAKER_01We're happy to be here.
SPEAKER_00Yes, we're excited.
SPEAKER_02So when did y'all first realize God wanted to be involved in your work and business?
SPEAKER_01You know, we were blessed to go to Indiana Wesleyan University, and the integration of faith and values and work was really some a big emphasis there. And you know, what first comes to mind with that question was we had a wonderful, wonderful college professor named Dr. Glenn Martin, who's now passed away. And he was the political science professor at Indiana Wesley. And we thought when you go to college for a political science degree degree, you're going to learn about polling and statistics, and you're going to learn about how to message and public relations. And Dr. Martin's teaching was more about political thought, theory, and worldview. And it was the first time I had ever considered these concepts of worldview. I knew I grew up in a Christian household, so Christian. And it was the first time when we sort of integrated, I in my mind, my faith with my career, what I wanted to do in politics. And so I that would be my answer. I probably stole Kristen's answer because I know how much impact he had on her life too.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, he did. I just think it was it was really impactful to tie that together. You know, I think a lot of times, um really anybody, but people of faith too, it's it can be kind of separate, right? Or segregated. This is what I do with my life, and this is my faith. And um, when you can have a holistic view and realize actually ever this informs everything else, your faith informs everything else. Um that's really powerful. It affects how you see the world, how you parent your children, how you show up to work, um, all of those things. And so I think um, yes, that education tying it into an overall worldview and how I see the world and how it affects government and business, and it it's really all-encompassing. So that was very instrumental for me as well.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And so you've got uh several different ventures and have been uh entrepreneurs for a long time, but specifically for liberty spenders to help us understand kind of the impact that's being made. What's one of your favorite stories that illustrates the impact being made by liberty spenders?
SPEAKER_01Well, you know, the concept there really is that consumers are taking a more systematic approach these days to examining the companies they do business with and what their values are and it's changing buying behavior. Probably the biggest story and the one that's most personable, personal to us is you know, we discovered months ago that as parents with kids and diapers, that we when we were buying from some of these bigger brands that they were supporting um Planned Parenthood, which seems kind of counterintuitive, like a diaper brand supporting Planned Parenthood. Right.
SPEAKER_02And that's counterproductive to your business model, right?
SPEAKER_01Exactly. And we thought we got to find a better brand. And they're recently launched, maybe a year or so ago, a company called Every Life that instead of uh supporting Planned Parenthood donates a lot to crisis pregnancy centers and other charities that support women in in difficult pregnancies. And we we found a new brand that we love. And uh we use them now for wipes and diapers. And uh I actually had a great opportunity to talk to their company CEO yesterday just by chance. I maybe not by chance, by divine appointment. We'll see. But you know, and we were having a great conversation about the business they're building and the growth they're seeing, because we're not the only parents that see that sort of contradiction.
SPEAKER_02What's the best way to find out about the worldview of some of these companies and their their top shareholders? I know the corporate equality index is one where if you want to find out uh how radical a company is in, for example, advancing the gay agenda, you can go look at this corporate equality index. You can see that you know, Nike and and probably um I don't remember exactly, I know that three quarters of Fortune 500 companies are participating actively in this corporate equality index. And and several have recently said we're not like lows and tractor supply, so we're not gonna participate in this anymore. Like, how do you find out what these companies really stand for?
SPEAKER_01Well, it's remarkably easy in some respects because a lot of them you just Google because they're so public about where they stand because they feel some of them that they want to appeal to these communities and so they want to trumpet that they are you know supporting a gay agenda or supporting Planned Parenthood or supporting you know uh pretty aggressive DEI initiatives. And and so you can often just find it there. But the truth is it it can be sometimes hard to find and uh as well, because some companies don't make it really obvious. And but there are good places to find good companies. Uh, you know, where we found Every Life Diapers was on a website called Public Square, and they have 85,000 plus people registered on Public Square, who are businesses that have pledged to follow um, you know, Christian and conservative values. They they support American-made products wherever possible, various things like that. So that's a good place to find uh some good quality businesses that support you know our values.
SPEAKER_02Is that what Public Square really is? Is a place to find out about which companies are really worthy of supporting?
SPEAKER_00It's not they're not giving to give you a rating of companies that are out there. It's just that anybody that wants to sell on their platform has to agree to their kind of credo of how you run your business. So um, so by shopping at Public Square, which for those of you who may not be familiar with it, they're trying to basically build an Amazon for these types of uh businesses. And so it is a marketplace where you know that any business that you shop or that you partake in through that platform is going to adhere to a certain set of values because they have to sign on to that and they're vetted through Public Square. So that is one place to start. And you may not have heard of these businesses, but you're supporting a lot of local, I mean, you're supporting a lot of small businesses this way, and your money can really be making a difference.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. What do you say to people who see this as just uh just a marketing gimmick or just a way to differentiate their companies in a in a crowded market? Like how important is this?
SPEAKER_01Well, I mean, there is both a values outcome and uh sort of a changing the world outcome, I think. Uh by being a Christian business owner who follows Christian principles of integrity, honesty, and and things like that. Uh and it and on its merits alone, that would be worth doing as a business owner, just to honor God and your everyday activities. But we argue to businesses, it's also not bad to tell some people about it either, because there's a group of consumers out there who are looking for it. And and when they find it, they're loyal. They stick with you through thick and thin, um, because they not just believe that you might be selling the best soaps or coffees or uh, you know, cars or whatever, but they also know that you support um, you know, Christian values or Christian charities or something. And so they're uh you're you're connecting with them on a level that you're well beyond the particular merits of a product, you know. And so it can be both that uh something that's good for the kingdom from just by honoring God, but also something that helps attract people to you.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. What are some of the other companies we need to know about who are providing these alternatives to a lot of these extremely radically liberal companies that are out there?
SPEAKER_00Well, there's a number that we a number of companies that we talk about, um, and we just recently launched a book trying to help businesses understand how they might be able to take advantage of this strategy. And so we highlight one that's really well known. Um I mean, we know about Hobby Lobby, we know about Chick-fil-A. Um, they've been doing this long before we came up with any of those strategies, but there's Seven Weeks Coffee. Um there is Black Rifle Coffee Company. Uh, he mentioned Every Life Diapers. Um, there are uh, you know, ultra right beer company that's launched. Uh they launched in response to Bud Light and their kind of marketing misstep. Um, and so there's just a number um of very successful companies that are using this strategy and really trying to connect um on the subject of values.
SPEAKER_01Patriot Mobile is a great one for wireless service. Uh strive asset management if you're somebody who's looking for a place to invest funds. Um and uh we just uh XY Athletics. Yeah, XXY Athletics. Uh there's Three Nails, which is also an athletic brand, which a with a Christian, it's a three nails for the cross, you know, Christian brand. Uh and there's really uh there's a ton of these kinds of companies um at various levels. Uh some are very upfront. Patriot Mobile, if you go to their website, their slogan is America's only Christian and conservative wireless provider. And then there's some that are just honoring God and other people have have discovered that on their own.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Aside from this being um uh a branding differentiator, as we are we are representing and living out Christian values, we want our customers to know that uh so they'll do business with us. What what are s what's some of the most um distinct or unique expressions of the Christian faith that you've seen that are just not um uh uh mainstream?
SPEAKER_00That's a really good question. You know, I think of several um uh policies that companies have about you know helping their employees by either giving them when they're closed on Sunday, you know, again, going back to Hobby Lobby Chick-fil-A, but other businesses that have policies that just support them in their desire to live out their faith. They have great um, you know, um support for various uh faith journeys or how they how they treat people in times of crisis. There's a number of ways you can do that. You can also mark it by the charities that you may support. So this isn't anything new, but perhaps I'm gonna commit to donating a portion of my profits, a portion of revenue to further the kingdom through charitable organizations. Um and so there's really a number of ways you can do that. Now, you asked for things that aren't mainstream, and there's plenty of quote, mainstream companies that would do that, but maybe not in the way um that would directly speak to what we feel like God has called us to do and to take to take those um matters of faith and be very public about it.
SPEAKER_01Um, you know, uh we've met in this journey so many people who I think were led to do some pretty crazy things. Um and some of them feel pretty normal. You know, when we interviewed the founder of Seven Weeks Coffee, you know, two weeks after he was married, he felt a calling to support crisis pregnancy centers. And um before he started his business, he he pledged to give a percentage of his profits, I think probably before he wrote his business plan. But he's he stuck true with it and he's been able to support 850 different um crisis pregnancy centers across the country. We um I was really moved by a veteran that we interviewed who really exposed something interesting, and this may be a little less of a faith thing, as much as I just think this is an interesting thing he's accomplished was how difficult it was he makes t-shirts, how difficult it was to make every element of the t-shirt in the U.S. As a veteran, he wanted to do it all in the U.S. He didn't want to buy anything from China if he could avoid it. And he said it took him a couple of years to source everything from the dyes to the t-shirts themselves to the material and some of the stuff he said just doesn't get made in America anymore. Uh, you can't get it here. And I just thought that journey he felt he wanted to do that and he's been committed to doing it faithfully and not not try to kind of go around the edges and say, well, I got the t-shirt in China, but it's, you know, I put the wording on in America so that you know we're gonna claim it's American-made. So I thought that was really interesting, the integrity he's had trying to get that done properly.
SPEAKER_00And then I have a big coffee.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I have a bean. Oh, how did I forget about this? These guys, if you want to ugly cry, Darren, um, you got to go to IHavean.com. They're a coffee, they're a roaster based in Wheaton, Illinois. And he has a passion for hiring ex-cons. He would call them post-prison. And that's all who work for him. And his story about why he does that is just amazing. He he started it by hiring some a relative who had gotten out of prison. And and his PEO, the payroll provider is using, tried to force him to fire him because he had a criminal record. And he thought, if it's that hard, it's hard for me to hire my own relative. It's got to be hard for others. And the story he tells there is so unbelievable because their theme is we make the world's top coffee. We're in the best 1% in the world and top coffee. And he said, It's amazing to take somebody who comes out of prison who thinks they're in the bottom 1% of the world because they've been in prison and tell them, we're going to put you in charge of making something that's the top 1%. And he says, the change in their um, in their attitudes when they're given that, when somebody puts that kind of faith in them is amazing. And he he has a great video that was actually made by a bunch of Christian college students, I think, that I before I had a my first, before I met him, I went to his website, watched that video, and I'm in a coffee house crying, like my, like just horrible. I'm sure people were wondering who died. And it was, but it was such a compelling story. And this whole concept of, you know, people who feel like they're in the bottom 1%, that attitude change. There's a story in the video where one of the workers says he was given keys to the building. And he said, No one has given me keys, no one has trusted me with keys to anything in you know, years, and how meaningful it was to him when his boss gave him keys and said, You're gonna be able to come and go as you please. And he was trusted. So that's I'm glad you remembered that one. I almost want to cry just talking about it. It's but it's good. So it's Ihavean.com. You got to go, you gotta hunt for the video.
SPEAKER_00It's kind of in the well, and it's how he's living out, you know, biblical principles of redemptive, you know, redemption, forgiveness, um, faith, and all of those things. And that's just who he hires to do the work. That's not part of his business, but that is one way he's living that out. And so when we talk to, you know, clients, it's you got to figure out what's authentic and true for you. And that's what makes it real. That's what makes it not a marketing gimmick, right? Is what does that mean for you and what is what are the choices that you're gonna make that are where you're gonna put your stamp on these things? Um, and it's different for everybody.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. Those are some of my favorite examples of how companies and their leaders are serving God in businesses, is second chance employment. And um I was just thinking last night actually about one of the best examples of second chance employment in the Bible is David and his mighty men, right? You know, these guys were broke, busted, and disgusted, like in in every way. And but they they got around the king and and it it transformed their lives. And these guys turn into giant killers, which some of them sounded pretty rough, may have been able to kill a giant to begin with. I don't know, but um, but yeah, I just love those those examples. It that's that's one of the hallmarks of companies that are that are serving God is is second chance employment. Um one of the other most evident examples is what the companies are giving to charitably. I mean, that's those are the expressions of of the culture. You got companies that are giving toward pro-life causes, um, and then you got another company that will like Nike, DoorDash, that are going to give toward you can get a scholarship if you're a teenager and you want a scholarship to get a uh to mutilate your body to convince yourself you're a different sex, uh, which is never gonna happen, then you can uh apply for one of the these Nike and DoorDash scholarships to be able to do that. Um and so yeah, I mean the the causes, and I'm sure Nike and you know give DoorDash give to causes like like feeding programs and things like that that we would all agree is is uh uh uh something that's worthy to be to be given to. Um but then there are these other things that we ought to do our research and find out um what is happening uh with our money when we support these, when we support these businesses.
SPEAKER_00Well, and the more that we can support other businesses that we feel like are again committed to the things that we're committed to, again, I just think that that furthers the kingdom, you know, because as as as as business owners and as leaders of employees, if we are pouring into our employees, if we're investing in them, if we are being good um you know, citizens of the community, those are those are the things that make impact in people's lives. Uh and you mentioned, again, our political background, but really what led us to um shifting and adding this part of the focus is God really showing us. I mean, we've known this for some time. I think the right politics matter, but no politician's gonna save us. We don't put our faith there, you know. Um, and so, you know, being able to have an impact again through the people that we employ, the customers we serve, and how are we living out those godly principles and how we treat other people? How are we shining a light on those things? How are we using our um our profits to again honor God and further his kingdom in whatever way that we feel led to do that? Those things are important. And as we as a group of people of believers, if we can come alongside each other and help each other again by supporting each other, I mean, that just grows exponentially. And that's what's so exciting is yes, you can use it to market, and it's a great way to signal that and to attract customers to you, but that That alone would not, you know, be the motivating force for us. It's what does that do? What does the success of that business mean for you? What does that allow you to do? How can God work through you in that way?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah. And supporting the community, I mean, this is your faith community is is massive. Um, I remember I used to live in New York City and walking through the diamond district, um, it it doesn't take you long to realize that you are in a very Jewish um economic uh world right there. And and so uh and and the the Jewish people have uh understood this for for centuries. And but I think uh there's such uh so many denominational divisions that we we kind of lose sight of uh of the community and and the opportunity that we have to to strengthen the body of Christ by doing business with each other. And I'm and and sadly the uh the the stereotypical uh story that is shared when Christians do business together is something that goes really bad. Um or it's it's a really pushy promoter of you know some sort of multi-level uh um system at church. And um, I mean, I I've got some friends from church that are were getting ready to go to court over uh a legal dispute uh having to do with a construction project. And you know, I've been working to try to mediate and resolve that. And thankfully it's not going to court and it is being resolved.
SPEAKER_01Wonderful.
SPEAKER_02Um but but you know, these things really ought not to scare us away from um being more intentional about supporting the our our fellow believers in the marketplace.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. I there's a great group just getting started called Christian Business Alliance that's attempting to set up small groups within churches all over the country so business owners can sort of connect with each other. And I love that because uh if you look at the statistics across the board, uh a third of all entrepreneurs say that they feel super lonely. Um suicide rates and other things are higher amongst that group and they just feel alone. I think it's a great opportunity for the church to come in. And things like what you describe, I think scare a lot of church leadership. They don't want to feel like they're in a position of having to mediate disputes between church members over business issues, but that shouldn't scare us off as a church from getting involved in the marketplace. And it's a positive way to have a ton of impact on a lot of people who just feel kind of alone leading a big business and there's no one to talk to about the challenges you're running into and the stresses that you're facing. I know I feel that uh as an entrepreneur, even in my own church, we have wonderful, wonderful people. Uh, but sometimes it's just talking to another Christian businessman or woman is what I need because they they've been there and they've dealt with that. And others may not have uh even even great people who we're in fellowship with. They they'll pray for us, but they just don't have the same like we can't connect on a bend there level.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So in the Liberty Spenders model, uh how can uh how do you partner with with companies to be able to reach the um the Christian market?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Well, you know, we we did a deep dive into this when we begun to think about how can we have a greater impact on the business community and identified a really wide audience of people, 76 and a half million of folks who um are Christian or are conservative or are both, who want to hear and do business with uh companies that share their values. Once we knew that, it's really just a question of well, how do you do this properly? How do you talk about um your convictions, particularly things of faith and maybe of politics as part of your business? That's a little counterintuitive, right?
SPEAKER_00I mean you're gonna talk about you know business or uh faith and politics, I think no, no.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, let's stay away from that. Uh and so we talk, we we when we work with somebody, we help them navigate those waters. I think as a person of faith, and you described it a little bit yourself. Uh, even I'm a little suspicious as somebody who who talks about faith in a way that feels very uh selfish, right? Um uh generally I found in the past if somebody, if a contractor of somebody is really, really, really, really overemphasizing their faith, they're usually compensating for something. So it's a it is a it's a process that we walk people through about how to talk about faith. Who do you really want to target? Uh, because every business has a different audience, right? They if they're selling a product for children, they're targeting parents. And we help walk them through finding in that 76 and a half million the audience of people who are best suited for their product, learning how to talk to them, how to talk to them appropriately in a way that engenders trust and how to tell their story. A lot of business owners really stink at telling their own story because it's very nerve-wracking. A lot of entrepreneurs would prefer to talk about anybody but themselves.
SPEAKER_00And so product or service, right?
SPEAKER_01Right. So learning how to tell the story in a way that helps people connect with what their life's mission is and where they want to impact the world and where they want to help the kingdom in the case of uh a business owner. And then from there, there's so many opportunities to tell your story within the Christian or conservative communities that a lot of typical marketing agencies have never touched. You know, they don't um, you know, I often give the example. If I asked a hundred marketing firms in the state of Indiana what the number one rated radio station in the state was, none of them would give the right answer. Because the right answer is the Christian radio conglomerate run by Taylor University out of Fort Wayne area. Um, but it's kind of off the radar because it's a Christian uh radio station. They don't take ads traditionally. Um and so, you know, having worked in this space, even though most of it was in politics, you know, you learn that those media communities that talk to people of faith, because that's often who we're talking to for politicians, and we help people plan how they can roll out and use some of those tools. We call it the secret ecosystem in our book, because it's really is a lot of people don't know. Hey, there's a way to talk, there's there's a there are uh influencers you can partner with, Christian radio, there's um uh email lists, there's all sorts of ways you could be talking to this audience that aren't are outside the typical, let's just go buy a bunch of Facebook ads uh approach, which you're gonna hear from everybody else.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And so you're doing consulting where you meet with the the company leaders and you help them to really get clear about what their story is and then figure out the best places to to reach them, uh, like um Public Square and and others. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And we it's it runs the commut. Some people we end up really serving as their marketing agency, but that's it's not necessarily our purpose to do that. Sometimes we just want to empower their team with an approach they've never thought of before. So it we can work with people in different ways. We can come in and just do it. We can, you know, show them the path and let them implement. So there's a lot of different ways. Or and they can also just read our book and get a bunch of our stuff for free, you know, just by reading it.
SPEAKER_00Well, and we say that because we'll we'll give you a link, but we're offering it to your listeners for free. So we're not doing it to get you to buy buy our book. Um, you know, we'll take your money if you want to give it to them. You can you can get it for free. Yeah. Uh, because we really feel passionate about this. And if we can just arm people with some information, again, you may not even need to talk to us.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Awesome. And they can get the book at liberty spenders.com, correct?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, Liberty Spenders.com slash CCB. We made a landing page just for um you and your audience. So you can go there, you can get access to that for free. And you can also download. We we dropped a hint about the data that we did. We did this nationwide survey and modeling, but you can also get what we call our data bible there. So you can get a breakdown of who these people are, what kind of segments are there. Again, just to open your eyes to what's possible.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. You guys are the real deal. I mean, you if correct me if I'm wrong, but y'all set the record for the um most donations generated from a political email campaign. Is that correct?
SPEAKER_00It's true. We did it in uh 2016 for Trump, and and uh uh that was amazing. It was two and a half, or it was $2.6 million from that single email, which broke Obama's previous record. And then um, you know, we just it came off this last election cycle. So we were very pleased to help Senator Ted Cruz. He raised the most uh money out of any candidate outside of President Trump, now President Trump. Um, and so we've been doing this for a long time, and we're we know how to get people to take action, um, how to get them to donate. And so that's why, again, we're just so um excited and just are really um really want to pass on this knowledge to business owners because it's not just about profit. This is about again building community and about serving the kingdom. And so we'd love to take that skill set and help you do that with your business.
SPEAKER_02Love it. Remind me the title of the book again.
SPEAKER_00Uh Liberty Spenders. And oh, that's the title of the book. Okay, there's a lot of subtitle.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's also what we call our audience, our segment. You know, it's they are Liberty Spenders, the 76 and a half million, and then our book is called that too.
SPEAKER_02Good. Way to stay on brand. See, they are good, they are good marketers. Well, Kurt and Kristen, thank you so much for this uh this stimulating conversation. Um, I think a lot of us are gonna really be more intentional and do more research on ways that we can partner with companies that share our values and understand that y'all are here to help, Liberty Spenders.com. Thank y'all so much.
SPEAKER_00And thank you, Darren. We appreciate your leadership here. You've been doing this before we ever thought of it. So thanks for hosting us. We really appreciate that.
SPEAKER_02Thank you. We hope you've enjoyed this episode. And if so, we would greatly appreciate it if you'd leave us a quick rating and review for the Christianity and Business Podcast on iTunes. You can get more information about HCU's Center for Christianity and Business and sign up to receive free access to all issues of the Christian Business Review Journal by visiting our website at Christianityandbusiness.com. Thanks for listening, and remember to keep integrating biblical values into your business.