Welcome back to the Christianity and Business Podcast, an initiative of the RGW Dunham College of Business at Houston Christian University. I'm your host, Darren Shear, and this is a show that helps Christian business leaders to integrate biblical values into business. On this episode, we're joined by Judy Weber. Judy is a renowned business expansion expert. I should say Julie Weber Esquire, because she is an attorney. Her years of judicial trial experience and entrepreneurial growth have equipped her to support women as they tap into their God-given confidence while growing their businesses to miraculous levels of success. As the host of the long-running globally ranked Joyful Business Podcast, she inspires entrepreneurs to incorporate proven business strategies while building on a foundation of faith. Judy, welcome to the Christianity and Business Podcast.
SPEAKER_00Thank you so much, Darren. I'm so excited to be here.
SPEAKER_01Judy, when did you first realize God wanted to be involved in your work in business?
SPEAKER_00Forever. Long as I can remember to be alive. I vividly remember that uh a little girl, uh, like three or four, on a Sunday night, mom sat my twin sister and I down and told us about this man named Jesus, God. And she actually said that he was your big brother. And I already had three big brothers. So I remember looking around, like, really, where is he? Why haven't I met him? You know? Um, but yeah, so Christ was a part of my life for forever, as long as I can remember. And it's interesting, Darren, because shortly thereafter, I remember going to my mom saying, Mommy, Jesus told me that I'm gonna do something very important. And that one day, mommy, I'm even gonna be a millionaire. And you got to understand, Darren, that my dad was a factory worker and mom was a homemaker. So, like, I'm sure when she heard that, it was kind of like, okay, Judy, go play now.
SPEAKER_01Wow. And so were you you were were you entrepreneurial from a young age, or that was was what what what was kind of your your first? Um, it was just a word from the Lord, but you weren't necessarily like going out and doing lemonade stands or what no, no, you know what I wanted to do?
SPEAKER_00Well, poor folk like me, you know, I come from humble beginnings. So in my like world, uh people like me wouldn't own businesses, you know. Um, and I was the first one to go to college, first one certainly go to law school, and first one to start a business. But I always had like this internal something where I felt like, you know, and I and I just never allowed myself to explore it, is how I think about it. When I was in law school, I remember being wowed by this guy who would come in a suit every day to law school. He was a young dude. I had five years between college and law school. So this kid was just out of out of um college. And I said to him, Why do you wear a suit? I'm curious. And he's like, I have my own business and I come from the office or whatever. And I go to the office again, and I'm just like, okay, wait, wait, wait. You're a Villanova, you're a full-time law student, and you have a business. Like it didn't even compute to me. So uh yeah, that's something that came much later.
SPEAKER_01And and so you practiced law uh for a number of years, and you mentioned that um the partners sometimes wanted you to do things that were not ethical. Uh, could you elaborate on that?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. And so I had a number of law firms. So if anybody looks me up, I'm not gonna tell you which one it is. And uh, you know, uh really in any law firm, there will be attorneys that um they walk a line, let's say. But um, you know, things like the way we argue a case to stretch facts, like like here's the thing about lawyers we bend things, but we don't break them. So there's a perspective on how you can look at a set of facts, but there's a line where that stretching becomes a lie, where where the perspective that you put on it is not true. And so there's no way I was gonna do that. And so, you know, there were a number of times um where it was like, Judy, make sure you argue this point. And I'm like, I can't do that. Well, what do you mean? And so that began in this one firm to be a point of contention where I did not get the high profile cases. And, you know, it was almost like, okay, Judy, Judy, you're good at writing briefs, but I'm not gonna put you in court because you just won't do certain things. And I was happy to happy to toe that line.
SPEAKER_01Wow. And um, and so that your career did it suffer because of that?
SPEAKER_00Yes, and also because I had the audacity to get pregnant. So, you know, I will tell you that I was blessed. I got married. Um, well, I graduated law school in in May, took the bar exam in July, um, started with a law firm in August, passed the bar in October, and in January of the next year, I found out I was pregnant. It's for my first year, right? And um, I didn't announce it right away because between August and January, I could see that what I expected, Darren, did not happen. What did I expect? I have always been a pro-woman. I've been a woman's advocate all of my life. I'm sure because my mama um preached me to be a leader and to serve, and and I just saw how women were um were quiet, especially Christians. You know, you gotta be quiet, you gotta be dainty, don't talk too loud, you know, be polite, be submissive. But I what I found, especially as a lawyer, is well, if you're gonna do all those things, you won't be heard. I mean, you know, you've got to have a boldness to you, whether you're an introvert or an extrovert. Um, but I could see what I expected was that the female partners would take me under their wing. And I'll tell you, there weren't many female partners. Um, and that I was surprised about anyway. But I remember they avoided me, and even more so when they found out I was pregnant, because then they're like, How dare you? One even said to me, How dare you? And I said, Excuse me. She said, How dare you have a baby? Even think about it in your first year of practice. And I go, I'm not following you. And she's like, Well, you know, me and so-and-so, we didn't even think about having a children until we made partner. And I said, respectfully, that was your choice, not mine. But I was blacklisted ever since then.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And your your Christian faith, uh probably, especially if you were, as I would assume, and talking to you, you were probably pretty open about your Christian faith, right? I'm guessing they didn't fully appreciate that either.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, there were some, it's so fun because as we know, there are those that claim to be Christian, and of course, I'm not judging anybody, um, but one of these partners was a Catholic, and I'll never forget this was so, this was so, this shook me to the core. I'm sitting there pregnant. I think I was seven or eight months pregnant, and I'm sitting in her office as she's finishing up a call. And she was saying how um she was talking and laughing with I don't even know who on the other end, but she was like, Oh, yes, we're gonna have a Bible study. And I remember like, oh my gosh, that's so great. She's gonna have a Bible study. She gets off the phone. I was gonna ask her if I could join. But right after she said it, she started laughing and she's like, Yeah, right, I know, like I would never do that. And I was like, I was sitting there, like, oh, you know, like dumbfounded. But yeah, so that was horrible. But but I would love to share my best day in court. You think that might be because Jesus Christ was all over that. This was so cool. Okay. So let me set this up. I'll try to be brief, but I'll probably get emotional. I was working not for a big firm at that time. This was more recently, I'd say 2012, 2013-ish. And I was working for a solo practitioner who was amazing. Um, in as trial lawyer, there is this um, it's not a fraternity, but it is a certification, if you will, that only one or two percent of trial lawyers get this designation. And she has it because she was just really good. Well, the other side uh pulled something shady, and I'm not gonna go into the details, but they actually filed sanctions against my boss, my owner, the owner of the firm. And um they locked up all her money, her personal and business money from a lie. I mean, it was just horrible. And she hired this this highfalutin lawyer downtown to represent her, paying so much money, and every motion that guy argued on her behalf lost. So desperate because they were gonna, I forget what they call it, buy down or take down on the money, they were gonna take the money out of her account. And as a Hail Mary, she said, Judy, I need you to argue this. I was so nervous, I'm like, you want me to argue this? And because so much was writing on it. So I will tell you, Darren, I prepared for that argument in court like I never prepared before. And it was interesting. Again, I'll try to be brief, but but I decided in my head after talking to the Lord that there were gonna be two, two levels, if you will, of my argument, the basic level, but I thought to myself, if he says this one thing, and I can't remember what it was, but it's something to do with taking down her money out of the bank account. I said, Lord, and he said to me, Yes, if he says this, then I'm I'm I'm going the the big blazes and I'm gonna go on this other tirade, right? Well, as soon as he said it, all of a sudden I start taking off the papers that I had out for the first part of the of the argument, and I start pulling out the the high the big guns. And um, I had other defense counsel around me who were all men, and they were looking at me like, what's going on? Anyway, now it was my turn to argue. I don't even remember what I said. I know that it was Jesus, the Holy Spirit that was speaking, because I was just so dramatic and I was I actually politely, if you will, called out the judge, and I and and anyway, it was just so amazing. So as soon as I'm done arguing, he wanted the other side wanted to argue against what I said. That judge was in tears. She said, This is done. I am out of here, and she left crying. And everybody, it was just so weird because that never happened. But I'm I'm almost near the end. So everybody left. None of the decode defense counsel. They didn't say, Good job, Jude. They just left, which was weird, but male chauvinism exists everywhere. And then the other side um walked behind me and they didn't say anything. They walked with their tail behind their legs. Um, but the bailiff said, Counselor, I ain't never heard anybody do what you just did. And then I said, Sir, thank you for that. But it wasn't me, it was Jesus Christ. And I said, and there was like a there was like a thing, I forget, I think it was a cross hanging over um the bench. And I said, You see, Judge so-and-so thinks she's in charge, but it's Jesus Christ who's in charge, and he he had his say today. And at that, he's like, You're a believer? I said, Yes, are you? I said, made we're gonna have fun in heaven, aren't we? But that was like my best day in court. It was just beautiful because the Lord God was all over it.
SPEAKER_01Wow. Wow. And so now you're working working specifically with women and helping women have miraculous success, as you say, uh in business and and just in life in general, I'm sure. Um, what's one of your favorite stories that illustrates the impact being made through your company today?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, um, gosh, there's so many. I mean, my star mastermind client went from um in 12 months, she had a goal to hit like 350 the following year, and we almost made it to 700 just in 12 months, $700,000. And um, you know, how do we do that? One of the things is not even strategy, although I'm a strategy person because of a lawyer the way I think, I think strategically to win, but I've created, but God downloaded to me what I call my faith-fueled thought model, which is a particular rubric for capturing your thoughts, holding them captive as unto Christ. And you know how we hear all the time in business that you should reframe your negative thoughts. Well, I take the position, why in the world would I reframe it? It's either your thought is either of God or of the enemy. And if it is of the enemy, we do not reframe it a lie, we tear it out, we obliterate it, throw it away forever, and we reinsert, we replace that lie with the truth of God's word. And so just a quick example of that is when Christian women have a hang up about, ooh, you know, selling is um bullying, or, you know, somehow like it's not godly to make a lot of money. And it's so funny because I just finished up a training earlier today on this very topic, what God said about money. Um, and so we look at that and we go, okay, so where did this thought come? And a lot of times, unfortunately, it's a misinterpretation of scripture, either on their part or by hearing it from a pastor who misapplied First Timothy 6:10, which is, you know, it's the love of money that's the root of all evil, not money itself. So that's just one example. I take them through these ideas, and what's holding you back? It's between your ears.
SPEAKER_01Yes, that's what it is. What what type of business was this uh mastermind client and what type of business is she in?
SPEAKER_00Yes, um, great question. I work with all service-based uh business owners, women, um, whether online or offline. And this one was a real estate broker, team leader, and um agent herself. So yeah, she had a a team, she had a great book of business on her own. But then there is another example of um a serial entrepreneur, she had a number of different businesses. And for her, it was a matter of like prioritizing time and effort as between these three businesses. So um a lot of that was mindset, but she went from 250 to 450 in a year. And then someone that's a little bit not mastermind level, but more um, you know, enter early stage, she is a coach and she had worked with another seven-figure coach who was telling her to package this amazing program for like 997. So we repackaged it, and I said it's worth 5K all day long. She couldn't quite get there, but she said 4K. And so after making $5,000 with this other coach over nine months with me, she uh generated about $40,000 in a matter of two months over a two-week launch. So so that's the kind of miraculous results because God called me to normalize miraculous results and it's all to his glory. I mean, I'm really just a conduit, I'm a vessel.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. That's that's fascinating because that it in internet marketing, I I hear that advice often to you know, raise your prices to, you know, and to thousands of dollars for this course. And it it just um I it's probably my own limiting beliefs. I'm like, who in the world is paying, you know, thousands upon thousands of dollars for an online course when you got you got YouTube, you got all of this free information that's out there that in most cases is better than what's in that course, and you can get it you know more tailored to you based on what the algorithm is going to present to you. Um I mean, like for example, what what industry was this for where she was being told 997 but ends up being 4,000 is the price tag.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um, well, I mean, it to me, any expert, if you are an expert, which to me means you can help people, then to me, starting low makes no sense. And you'll find plenty of business coaches out there that will disagree with me. There's a couple out there that say, look, somebody bought my $47 or whatever, and now she bought a $30,000 top level. Hey, does it happen? Yes. Do I recommend it? No, because the person typically that's gonna pay $497 is not gonna be the person that's gonna all of a sudden invest $30,000. So my I take the position that when you have the goods, when you can help people and you're providing life change or significant business change, why in the world would we put a Kmart price on it? Like, like if I'm looking for a Louis bag, you know, um, I'm gonna expect to pay a certain thing. If I want to drive a nice car, I'm gonna expect to pay something. So, so it's a it's a disconnect for us to say, this is amazing and put a low sticker on it. Um, and and the thing there is that when we talked about mindset, that is a mindset thing where it's like, well, Judy, I'm just getting started. Or Judy, I haven't worked with a whole lot of clients. How can I do this? And I'm like, well, wait, I have a simple question. Can you help people? Yes, great, then let's go. Because if they give you, let's say, $5,000, what are you gonna teach them to do that's worth like $10,000? Like, like, okay, I'll give a quick example. Even if someone has weight loss, they help women lose those last 10 pounds or lose 50 pounds, whatever it is, like that's highly valuable to me. That's priceless. Having uh I'm I'm gonna be 60 this year or 59 this year, and I have never been so heavy in all my life. I don't even know what's going on. I don't even know. But but for someone to say to me, pay me $5,000, and I will teach you how to feel good in your body, how to be healthier, how to eat healthier, how to live healthier, and then you will know how to maintain that for months and years to come. Oh my goodness, that's worth way more than five or ten thousand dollars.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, I I would agree. It's just that you know, there's so much information that's out there and readily available where you can see this already has millions and millions of views. It's like, how do you how do you get the social proof to to have the audacity to charge five thousand dollars for a for a course, you know?
SPEAKER_00That's so good. I hate the word course. I hate courses. Do you know why? Because the typical course, the way, and these words matter. So what I'm saying about hating a course, I'm gonna tell you what a course is to me. A course is here's some videos and a couple of worksheets. Have fun. There's zero support with it, and it's just a course, and I have all these people that got great wins. Okay, I can that's why I hate courses because I could hand out, so to your point, these millions of views. Oh, Tony Robbins, who I really don't care for, but Tony Robbins has the formula for a great life or whatever, or whoever your influencer of the moment is, they may have all these videos, but the strategy won't work if your mind's not right. That's number one. Number two, all these videos, I can consume their videos, okay, but they're not organized. You have to figure it out and put it together as opposed to in my program, like my uh breakthrough, the incubator program, there is a step-by-step that I've already figured out that is proven that you um go through it, but even more than that, you have access to me. You have access to a coach who you can ask questions, you post anything in like our Facebook community, and I get eyes on it and I give you specific feedback. That's why, to me, courses are garbage. And a program that has high access and support, that is what you need to move the needle. And so that is absolutely highly valuable.
SPEAKER_01Gotcha. So the $4,000 course was a kind of a health and wellness um course, or was it something different?
SPEAKER_00No, that was and I'm gonna say it's not a course, it's a program. I mean program. And this one was, you know what it was? It is um, I don't want to say time management because that's not really what it is, because I love the nuance with which this client of mine um approaches time, but it's about stewarding your time so that the busy entrepreneurial woman in midlife, she's very specific, has the ability to look at her calendar differently, look at time differently, and be a heck of a lot more productive and um find more space in her calendar just by her perspective in it. So it's kind of like I don't fully understand the nuance of it because I haven't actually been through her program, but the results her clients, I mean, it speaks for it speaks for itself.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So you know, the pricing, and and I find that this is often a massive part of the value of hiring a coach, you know, hiring somebody in your corner is that they're gonna tell you things often like you gotta raise your prices, you're you're too cheap, you know, you're you're short selling yourself, and kind of gives that person the confidence to be able to ask for more, even though it feels a little a little uncomfortable. Um how do you how do you help especially Christian entrepreneurs reconcile because even charging 10 bucks is hard hard enough for most of us, but charging hundreds and thousands of dollars for information uh not not even necessarily necessarily like raw materials that you know had to get manufactured and there's literally like you know it it costs money to to get those materials to make that physical product this is this is information yeah that so many people especially what the information age has kind of taught us is that information should be free um how do you help christi reconcile the character of Christ with this idea of you got to raise your price from you know nothing maybe but that's what most people are charging is nothing um to thousands of dollars okay in love and I'm the type of person where like in the Bible we don't tickle the ears we need to hear the truth okay well we're not selling information we're selling a transformation yeah so that's pivotal and so if all I did was say here's a bunch of notes here you go here's some information or here's my book or here's my something I get it where that's like wait okay what do I do with it that's the point like here's the information here's all these downloadables that you can do or the YouTube channels or the podcast but it's about putting it together because here's another thing I find um if you mix uh methodologies for example if you mix my approach with another business coach's approach you're messing up your mind because you need focus so when someone's out there trying to grab a freebie and and and listening to downloads of podcasts and YouTube videos they can't assimilate it to make it practical for them to use because the one person is focusing here the one coach or whoever they're listening to and then somebody else is really pushing them there.
SPEAKER_00So so that's what they're buying by way of a program that is in the thousands it is a methodology a process that's thought through from beginning to end. So it's a transformation you're buying not information information is garbage that should be cheap. But to your point about raising prices as I said I said this is a $500 program but I always say what do you feel comfortable with but what I help my clients is to say write it down I say power think about the value of what your client gets as a result of working with you. What is the value? In other words they get out of it so that what like they're going to do X, Y, and Z so that what? So that you lose those 10 pounds and you feel great in your body and you can rekindle that relationship with your husband or um you know in the way of time so that you can, you know, as I said have more time in your day so that you can get more done and and this kind of thing and actually not have to work more work less. But to that point I am never the one to say you got to raise your prices to 10,000 come on now. Come on just believe more no because here's the deal we must sell to the level of our conviction quick example um if you say to me hey Jude I can get to 2000 but I can't get to 1000 like like love you and all Jude but I don't see 1000. I can't do it you would be much better off pricing it at 2K because you have that level of conviction you might get three four or five clients when you launch it right as opposed to if you put it at 10K you're in such a place of uncertainty and unbelief there's no way you're not gonna sell any of it. So I think it's wrong and and not helpful for anybody not helpful for you not helpful for your ultimate client who you know is is going to miss out to say you must raise your prices it's got to be um it's got to be to the point of your belief into the value of that price.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And do you ever have or hear the mindset well you know the gospel is free like Jesus didn't charge anybody for anything even if their physical healing um not just their spiritual salvation of their of their souls um but I think what gets missed is is it it kind of indicates that maybe they don't understand the gospel because what Jesus was charging was not a thousand bucks he was charging everything you have I mean your everything you are everything you ever will be your hopes dreams um relationships identity everything now is part of that exchange with with Christ and so if somebody's like well jesus gave it away for free uh well kind of but but actually the the price was was everything and and so in that sense it's not an apples to apples comparison to say well jesus didn't require um a monetary payment for doing the things that he was doing he he required much more than that he required everything he required your all yeah that's right I do want to say that um I recently as I was studying you know what God said about money I came up with something that blew my mind the word for the root word for our word coin comes from the Hebrew word chain ch e y n and so what chain means the root of that word means God's favor so wait the Hebrew word ch e y n means god's favor and that is the root word for coin that's interesting okay so then there's another word a Hebrew word it's omane o-h m-e-i n and the definition of that word is man of faith and that word is the root word for uh business professional so hang on a second the word for a business professional i.e an entrepreneur means man of faith person of faith that's pretty amazing right so yeah and to the point of i i can't even begin to compare what we do with what jesus did but um it's interesting because when you have a business it's about money it's about service and an exchange of value for value but a business is money needs money to run i will say that business needs money to run but here's the thing even a nonprofit does too so instead of selling as in business to your direct client what you need to do in a nonprofit is you need to sell quote unquote to your to people to contributors like donors so no matter how you slice it in order to exist in a prop for profit or nonprofit dollars are needed in order to sustain and by the way it's interesting Darren that when I was in corporate um and transitioning and a lot of my clients were there too they're you know professionals and and they're starting a business or they've been in business there becomes this kind of stuck point where it's like somehow taking a six or multi-six figure paycheck there was no real guilt around that but somehow there's a heck of a lot of guilt oftentimes when we're taking um a paycheck quote unquote by servicing clients directly so I've never quite when I asked my clients about that they really don't have an answer but it it's an issue that I've been like asking God to reveal like what is that stuck point but anyway I'm curious if you even experienced that yourself or have clients like that. Yeah yeah and I think um I think more so when I first started because I didn't have team members that I was paying and and so but once you have other people that are on the payroll now you know that by charging less you're not just you're not just shortchanging yourself by taking that money out of the value chain you're shortchanging your team members and ultimately you're gonna shortchange the customer as well because the service is not going to be as good not enough time went into it not enough quality went into it and and so yeah I could definitely relate uh relate to all of that um especially when I was first starting out um you know because it's like oh you need me to do that thing that we didn't talk about doing it wasn't part of the scope like you know you're already paying me for this I guess I'll I guess I'll throw that in too um you know and I'm all about going the extra mile I just don't think that like for example if you have a trucking company and you want to go the extra mile for your client literally uh somebody's got to pay for that extra mile of gas so who's it gonna be um is it gonna be taken out of the company which is gonna be lower lower salaries you know less money is going to be donated to um you know the causes that your company supports which hopefully are the um a a big part of that cause are are your employees and your employee giving fun um so but yeah squeezing money out of the out of the value chain so that you can feel more um self-righteous is not good for anybody. And ultimately the customer is gonna is gonna suffer uh because they're they're just not getting the quality that they really need.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely and if I could just interject two things real quick Proverbs 311 it says that this woman who is a wife of noble character was a serial entrepreneur and it says in verse 18 her trading was profitable. So this is a woman that is held up as a godly woman who does all the things right that we aspire to do and be um but will never be and I'm not sure if this woman even existed for real but all I know is scripture says she was profitable and she was held up as a model. And then the other thing in the way of um scope slide which is a thing that's where contracts become so important. And as a lawyer you know I help my clients to I don't write their contracts I always have a disclaimer for educational purposes only but that's where the contract becomes so important to point to them and say well it's outside the scope but we either we can do it at an additional price or we just can't do that. And maybe I can refer it as somebody else.
SPEAKER_01Yeah yeah and and there's ways to go the extra mile in business that that don't involve um spending money that you don't have and investing your team members time that you just don't have uh you just don't have that it's just not your resource to to donate. I mean and that's and that's charity and that's not um that's not that's not really that's not really business. Right. And and so but this is this is fascinating um conversation I'm really really enjoying this. I know that you do need to hop off here pretty soon um I want to all first before we sign off here ask you to share how people can get involved with what you're doing. Judy Weber W E B E R dot C O is the website. What else do you want to leave our listeners with today?
SPEAKER_00Thank you so much Darren I am all about bold offers bold and I actually have an acronym for that real quick what here's what you need to be bold you need belief you need obedience you need leadership and then the D is a trifecta you need determination discipline and um oh gosh what's the word determination discipline and I can't even remember right now my brain yeah something it's not that but anyway maybe I'll come to me but but we need to be bold in business in order to succeed and I'm all about bold offers. So what I have for your listeners is an offer checklist. This is an irresistible offer checklist this is the only checklist you need to package your genius into a higher I don't say high high is like 10, 20, 5000, but into a higher between three and $10,000 higher ticket offer that practically sells itself. We're going to take the guesswork out of offer creation and it's judyweber.co slash offer checklist so I'll be sure to send you that um other than that I would be honored if you would listen to my show I have a joyful business podcast. So you can search joyful business inside Apple or Spotify whatever your listenership you know whatever platform you like but I would be honored if you all would listen there.
SPEAKER_01All right judyweber.co forward slash offer checklist and then go subscribe to the joyful business podcast um even right as we're uh right as we're finishing this episode. Judy thank you so much for your time and the wisdom that you shared with us today.
SPEAKER_00Darren it has been my pleasure my privilege praise Jesus because anything we ever do a value is of him so amen.
SPEAKER_01We hope you've enjoyed this episode and if so we would greatly appreciate it if you'd leave us a quick rating and review for the Christianity and business podcast on iTunes. You can get more information about HCU's Center for Christianity and Business and sign up to receive free access to all issues of the Christian Business Review journal by visiting our website at Christianityandbusiness.com. Thanks for listening and remember to keep integrating biblical values into your business