Welcome back to the Christianity and Business Podcast, an initiative of the RTW Dunham College of Business at Houston Christian University. I'm your host, Darren Scheer, and this is a show that helps Christian business leaders to integrate biblical values into business. On this episode, we're joined by Peter Greer. Peter is president and CEO of Hope International, a global Christ-centered nonprofit that equips underserved communities with financial tools, including microfinance and savings groups, to break the cycle of poverty. He's a thought leader in global economic development and a graduate of Harvard's Kennedy School. And he's authored, or co-authored, I should say, because he loves to collaborate as he's going to talk about. He's co-authored 15 books, including A Lead with Prayer, that's his newest book, Mission Drift, Rooting for Rivals, and Created to Flourish. Peter, welcome to the Christianity and Business Podcast. Yes, sir. When did you first realize God wanted to be involved in your work in the marketplace? I know that you do a lot for nonprofits, churches, but but you really also have a heart for the business world. When did that start?
SPEAKER_01I can tell you the exact moment. It was 1996 in Moscow, and I was there as part of the International Business Institute. So I was studying globally. And uh my background is I had this interest in business and entrepreneurship. I had this interest in missions, and um, and it was the first time that I saw someone that was using the tools of business to make a significant impact at that moment of time after the fall of the Soviet Union. And I was hooked. Um, so that was the moment when I saw these parts of my life, my areas of interest come together. And that's what I've really been doing ever since.
SPEAKER_00And and how have you been leveraging the the uh the opportunity that the Lord has presented to us um through business?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so it really was um, and maybe the best way uh to answer that is the organization that I work for, um, the founder, um, an entrepreneur, home builder. And um, as he had this company that was growing, he very clearly had the sense of he was uh blessed to be a blessing. And so he started trying to help. He started to give away food and supplies, also in the former Soviet Union. But after doing this for several years, Pastor Petrenko, uh pastor who was there, said, Your help isn't helping us anymore. And what they realized is that what was so good in meeting an immediate or temporary need was actually not the best way to help make a long-term impact and to help the church stand on its own two feet and to help the church locally take care of the needs, and then also have the gift of of uh of giving and impacting others. And so, really, you cannot have long-term flourishing without work, without employment, without jobs. And uh, that's what they recognized. But they also recognized that they needed capital. Uh, they needed, you've got a tractor, you've got no gas in the tank. That tractor is not going to do a whole lot of good. And so they realized mobilization of capital, along with training, along with discipleship, um, that is a powerful tool uh for a lot of good in our world and for the mission of the church to advance. And so that really uh the founding story of hope uh is exactly that, and really designed, as you said, uh to provide tools, training, capital in a relational context uh so that individuals can work their way out of poverty. And for us, um, you know, it's great to use these tools, but at the core for us is also and how do we share the love of Christ with every single person? And that makes a difference in who we are and how we work and how we partner with the local church. So that's uh that's been the journey that we've been on at Hope International.
SPEAKER_00I love it. And you're really known for just being a collaborator and among other many other things as well, but but your heart is to see the body of Christ working together. And I'm sure a lot of that is your gifting and your passion, but as well as just out of necessity in doing these kinds of initiatives that you undertake all around the world, getting government to work together and the church to work uh with the government and business and and just bringing everybody into this uh concerted effort to really see impact made. And and you wrote a book called Rooting for Rivals. Um, can you just fill us in on um kind of what that's about?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so I mean, on a very practical standpoint, what we're trying to do around the world is trying to address these complex needs. And the reality is if you do the thing that you are equipped to do, you you try to do that world class, there's gonna be other things that are gonna be negatively impacting the communities or churches or outreach. If we're gonna make a real lasting change, it has to be multi-sectoral, it has to be collaborative. So it just makes sense that we would try to find ways for organizations to see each other not as rivals, but as uh really ultimately trying to accomplish the same thing. But that is even more true among uh those of us that are followers of Jesus. And I find it so interesting that the night before Jesus went to the cross, he was praying for those who will believe in his name, meaning you and me, Jesus was praying for us the night before he went to the cross. And his prayer is specific. And it's a prayer that we would be brought to complete unity. And it says, then the world will know that you have sent me. So our mission to the world hinges on the way that we treat and engage with one another. And so I think from a practical standpoint, if we're trying to address complex problems, as well as from a missional standpoint, we're trying to do this in ways that really allow individuals to see the goodness and grace uh found in Christ. Um, the way that we partner, the way that we collaborate, the way that we root for our rivals, uh, it matters a lot.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And it looks like you really try to set this example in in your own life where I was doing some research on you before this this interview, and I was I was already familiar with Mission Drift and your name. And I know that you do work with uh faith-driven entrepreneur. And and and it looks like virtually all, if not all, of your books are co-authored. And uh, and so what why do you take that approach?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, again, maybe on just a real uh practical standpoint, it's just more fun to be on the journey with others. Um, and I think about some of the things that I've done around the world, even if I'm traveling and have this amazing experience, but you experience it alone, your joy is uh is halved in that. You have that same experience with another person, and there's something different. I think God has created us to be in relationship with himself and with others. And um, so that maybe is a higher level practical piece, uh, the higher level, not a practical piece. But but the second thing is I think the product is a whole lot better as well. When I have someone to bounce ideas off, when we're working together, when we're each bringing our stories, our interests, our connections, uh, I think it results in a better book. And I think it is a lot more fun to do uh in the process. And um yeah, I just I I I say this. If anyone says uh that I am an author, I hopefully will always be quick to correct. Um, I am a proud co-author. Um, I love working with others in these writing projects, and I know there's more joy, um, and I believe it every single time has resulted in a better book as well.
SPEAKER_00I love that. Yeah. I um as I go out with my boys, and it's you know, springtime uh turning here in the mountains, and we go out and and into the streams and the creeks, and it's just so fascinating to watch all those little tiny streams eventually form into this massive river. And no matter how small the stream is, you know it's it's flowing downhill and it's eventually gonna end up being a part of something much, much bigger than itself. And um, in fact, we have a picture of one of those creeks above our mantle as just a constant reminder of that. Um but you you've uh set such a great example of that, and and it's uh it's a habit that we all need to take and apply just a mindset. And you've also done uh really some deep research on the spiritual habits of world-changing leaders. Um, so of those that you studied who are in business, what are some of those habits that you share in your book Lead with Prayer? And that's probably giving away some of it.
SPEAKER_01No, you you definitely got to the punchline uh on that. But it really was an opportunity to have uh an incredible set of conversations with these leaders from around the world that are really um having movements in our own day. There is so much good. Uh, the gospel is on the move around the world, in the marketplace and and and in so many different sectors around the world. And as we started talking to these leaders, what we found is that upstream from all of these movements uh was not some sort of leadership practice, uh, but it was a prayer habit. It was a commitment to prioritizing prayer. And uh, we wanted to learn more. How do these leaders do this when life feels really full, really busy? How do they protect this time? Uh, what can we learn about the prayer life of Jesus, uh, who also had plenty of demands on his time, uh limited uh number of years. And yet we see Jesus constantly prioritizing time and prayer. And really just an opportunity to learn from global leaders that have figured out not just to be people of prayer, but then to create cultures, uh, workplace cultures uh that somehow uh prioritize prayer. Um, so that was the journey. Uh, we looked uh for leaders around the world that have been leaders who pray first. Um, and uh we found some incredible, incredible stories and examples that really have radically reshaped uh those of us that worked on this project, every single one of us uh would say it radically reshaped our prayer life as well.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So when the when the apostles were trying to decide how they were going to take care of the the the widows, and they point the deacons, uh Stephen and the others, so that they could quote be devoted to the word and to prayer. Um, I think a general mindset that a lot of us have is that, well, prayer and you know, Bible study and those things are for your pastor to do. And as a business person, that's you know, we we just sort of make the money so that they can be devoted to those things. Like, how do you dispel that myth?
SPEAKER_01Oh, I mean, so interesting. You look at the example of uh Daniel, uh, he had a lot going on, and yet he had these fixed hours uh at very risk of his life and reputation. He said, Why in the world would I try to do this work in this environment under Nebuchadnezzar on my own, in my own strength? I will not last. Uh, but here's this young man that established a prayer practice throughout uh his journey as he led. Um, and that's just one of many. Again, you look at the example of Jesus regularly withdrawing to lonely places uh and prioritizing prayer. What is going on? And then you look even at those examples in the early church. Do you know how much um that that in some ways uh you look at the early church and their prayer practices? They were all the time, not saying we're gonna delegate prayer. Um, this was in addition, this was supplement, uh, not delegate uh on that. So we see this vibrant prayer life uh from these leaders. And then you look at the history of the church and realize the gift of prayer. And then candidly, you look at what happens when leaders don't have a vibrant prayer life. Did you know that of those leaders that have been studied that didn't finish well, every single one of them had long ago lost any sense of a personal prayer life? Like it is mission critical. And Tim Keller says this he says prayerlessness is detrimental for a Christian, but he says it is death for a Christian leader. Like it is lethal to try and do this work where our influence increases, our prayerfulness decreases. And in that gap between influence and prayer, I think we see a lot of areas of harm. We see a lot of issues of frustration, uh, we see a lot of challenges that I think would be avoided if we actually took Jesus at his word, which says, apart from me, you can do nothing. So why would we try uh to do this work? Why would we try to lead in our own strength uh when we are offered uh the sense of abide in me and you will bear much fruit?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So in the book Lead with Prayer, you focus on business leaders that are getting it right. So, what are some of the examples and how are they getting it right?
SPEAKER_01One of the most frustrating things, to be candid, was that some of the most compelling examples that we had of Fortune 500 leaders of these leaders in the marketplace. Um, we had the, we always, of course, have those whose stories are being told, sign off, make sure we got everything right. But then in certain places, it required the legal department to also sign off. And we were not given permission at the 11th hour to include some of these stories, which I found so disappointing because it really did stretch the imagination about where exactly it might be possible to have a vibrant culture of prayer. And we found some surprising examples at very well-known publicly traded companies that have vibrant prayer cultures uh in that. And then we also found uh entrepreneurs, those that had founded their own um uh company workplace and had creative ways. Um, that we do tell the story in the book of Martin's Bionics, um, and an incredible story about how God has guided and directed them and the way in which they have prayer as the centerpiece uh of their work and of their strategy. Um, and in work environments where maybe not everyone shares um the same faith, uh, there still are possibilities for optional. Hey, this is what we're doing. You are welcome. Not at all mandating or forcing, but to have an invitation. I remember Andre Mann also talking about, you know, there's many times uh throughout his career uh where he, you know, was looking for those right opportunities, praying for those right opportunities. And when someone is going through a challenge to say, hey, can I pray for you for that issue right now? I would love to pray for you. Uh he shared about the ways in which in corporate America and in global um international business, uh, he has had these opportunities uh to pray for individuals and watch God do the miraculous, um, like the truly miraculous in some of those situations on that. So yeah, I just to me, this is not a message uh that is if you are in your church, uh you should uh find a way to join your prayer committee. This is saying for all of us. Let's be leaders who prioritize prayer and let's figure out in our place what might be possible and to stretch the bounds of that, uh, to find uh ways of of truly seeing this gift of prayer and to uh to receive it, to do it, to practice it. Um and uh yeah, our question that we started with is what would happen? What would happen if leaders pray? Like what would happen today? And you look historically and you see movements happen, you look around the world, you see incredible impact uh happening. And and we just say, uh, in our day, in our organizations, in our time, uh, would you do it again? And I think prayer, um, for whatever reason is upstream from just this incredible and beautiful um, yeah, kind of uh what we long to see in our world. Thy kingdom come.
SPEAKER_00Wow. Our little team had a a fun experience with prayer yesterday. I mean, we pray as a team uh together. Uh we are we're all virtual, you know, kind of all over the country. Um, and then we have some contractors in other parts of the world, but we do pray uh together weekly. But we met with one of our contractors who we'd never met before. We kind of a newer, newer guy for our team. And you know, these guys in a lot of cases, if they're being uh they're being used as contractors, like there's not really much relationship that they have with whoever's hiring them. It's just, you know, here's the job and you know, pay me. And whenever it's like maybe they got a language, maybe there's a language barrier, or maybe there's uh you know, there's some excuse that we can come up with for why it does or the time zone or why we shouldn't reach out. But I was meeting with some um some some serious Christians who are really wanting to honor God in business. And one of the things that came out of the discussion is we need to to you know make sure that uh all of our people, whether the contractors, employees, know that we really care about him. And and we got an opportunity to meet with this guy yesterday, um, who's all the way in India. And as we're talking to him, very quickly, you know, recognize that he's Hindu, he's going to the temple this coming weekend. So he's you know, he'll be going there this weekend while we're celebrating Easter, uh, and he'll be worship worshiping some goddess. And um, but he was just so moved by the fact that we uh took the time to get to know him and learn about his family, and then he let us pray for him. And after that, I mean, he was so touched. Like you could just tell he was like, Nobody ever does this uh for me. Like nobody ever like really reaches out and tries to find out about who I am and you know, prays for me. And um, and so like even just you want to share Christ with your team members, with your customers, with your your your contractors, employees, like prayer is one of the most underutilized, underestimated forces for for doing that. Because like when you pray for them, they're like, This person's actually serious about their faith.
SPEAKER_01So well said, what a great story. I love that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So so what are some of the the ways that some of the business folks that you studied are living this out?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so I mean, again, wide variety of uh of of stories and different contexts. Um but uh one of the one of the stories that um uh we we we uh uh we're not able to include uh was just this power of of the small group, um, and saying it might not be possible with everyone, but but and and in this context, it wasn't possible to do during the the workday. So they just said this matters. Um, so hey, here's how we're gonna do it. We're gonna do it before work, we're gonna have these hours. And uh one individual, um, you know, it wasn't possible to meet on the physical uh campus of where they work. And so they said, we're gonna meet right across the street uh on that. And to me, it's it's it's all about do we believe that it matters? Do we believe that prayer matters, that it changes us? And in some wonderful and beautiful way, uh it matters in changing the world. Um, and if we believe that, uh, I think that's where we then have the opportunity to not just say that, not just believe it, but do it. Um, I also think about uh the example of Terry Looper. Um he's been running a uh large uh company, um, grown significantly. And um uh he has a great book called Sacred Pace, uh, where he outlines a lot of these different ideas in more detail. But but it basically is any time that he's facing a decision, he has a very clear discernment process that he makes himself go through. And it actually includes like a 24-hour period uh where no decision is made. He wants to give time and space. Um and he would say that process and consulting his best friend Jesus as he makes decisions has unquestionably shaped the decisions that he's made and shaped his own heart in the process uh on that. So whether it's big decisions or whether it's small groups doing it together, um, in some ways, it's not like this is really revolutionary. Like it's not like these are new, no one's ever thought of these ideas. Uh, they give anything, it's just elevating the importance, uh, showing a broad set of examples of where this is possible. And I think anyone that says it's not possible in my context, I think would find someone in a context that is even a little bit further. Um uh, and yet it is possible uh to do that. So yeah, in many ways, it's just I mean, that's what the disciples said. Lord, teach us to pray. And that's really just the posture. What does it look like if that were our prayer today, too? Lord, teach us to pray um in our lives, uh, with our families, uh, in our places of work. Lord, teach us to pray.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Somebody's like, Peter, this is this is a novel concept. You might want to get like a utility patent on this prayer thing. It's powerful, powerful stuff.
SPEAKER_01Even in Scripture, right? There's there's when you start reading through scripture with a lens of really looking for the prayers, you see these incredibly powerful, like one-sentence prayers of Lord, help me in my unbelief. Uh, help is a great short prayer. Um, and and and and so many others. And then you see different postures. Uh, you see the way that some um kneeling, you know how many times it talks about kneeling? And that was not part of my prayer practice until recently. And and and also we lift up our hands and and just all different ways uh when you start reading scripture, you see a variety of tools from confession to adoration, you see a variety of different postures uh that really are designed to inform the heart. Um, and you see a variety of different ways that it's personal individual. So I think for me, the exploration of looking at prayer lives of global leaders, looking at the prayer lives of leaders in scripture, it has expanded the possibility of how I define prayer. It has expanded the practices uh that we use. Um, and it's all, again, if we say it matters, uh, then let's make sure our calendar, our lives reflect uh that statement. Um, and then let's see with expectation what God might do uh in our hearts and what God might do in our world.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. What's one of the most consistent prayers that you pray? Not necessarily the just, you know, the exact verbiage, but just even the heart message of what that prayer is that you've been praying lately?
SPEAKER_01No, I can tell you exactly what it is. Um, and this is really kind of flowing from uh the uh book from Brother Lawrence, um, The Practice of the Presence of God. And it's really this idea about you've got your fixed hour prayers, you've got your time, but then also what does it look like to go about your day in the day today, aware of God's presence, inviting God's direction and presence. And one of the things that um uh came across um was just this idea about regularly um uh again, being aware of God's nearness, God's presence through two simple prayers. Um, thank you, thank you, thank you, and help, help, help. And and and this idea about just being aware of how many reasons when you see something amazing, uh where does our attention go? And I want my attention uh to go. If I'm about to eat uh this apple, uh to say, this is an amazing, like this is amazing. Thank you, Lord, for this incredible uh thing that you created for our enjoyment. Thank you, thank you, thank you, or a thousand other things throughout the day. And then also help. Um, I need your help in this next meeting. Help me to know what is gonna be uh something that might be encouragement as I meet with this next person. And and so just that awareness of of gratitude and I think appropriate desperations that unless God shows up, all of our efforts are not really gonna make a meaningful impact.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah. One of the things that people can do is on their using their smartphone, program in some alarms to that'll just, you know, you can program for just just a buzz. It doesn't need to be like a loud siren or anything like that. But and then just give the give the alarm a name, as you can do on your phone. Um mine just says open hands. And so three times a day that alarm goes off at 10, 2, and 6. Uh and it just says open hands. And I'm just gonna release whatever it is that I'm um is on my mind at that at that point in the day to the Lord. And uh, you know, it's just been a really good check-in. Um, and another personal prayer that I've been praying lately is Lord, help me to know that I'm in right standing with you. Um because when I slip into that performance approach to life and to business and everything else, um everything there's so much anxiety that comes with that. And I've just been doing a a study of Romans, and that that book is just helped to recenter me on this the the the free gift of God's righteousness, that imputed, accredited right standing with God, where I don't have to hit a certain you know bottom line, I don't have to achieve anything to get it, um, to just be able to live from that place. And and that might be another good prayer for somebody to pray is Lord, as I'm going into this meeting, help me to know that I'm in right standing with you, regardless of the outcome.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, that's great.
SPEAKER_00And so any other practical tips you can give us on um, or maybe not necessarily a a practical tip, but anything else you want to say to exhort us into um Let me ask you this. So the Bible says pray continually. How do you do that practically as a business person?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, I think that's where, again, I highly recommend uh whether it is uh kind of our uh summary of that or whether you actually read through Brother Lawrence, uh the practice of the presence of God. But I think there's some wonderful ways, or Terry Looper's book, uh Sacred Pace, um, as well, in the day-to-day decisions that we make, uh really going through that process. Um, but just that awareness. And that again, for me, is really what was prompted the idea about uh thank you, thank you, thank you, and help, help, help uh on that on a regular basis. But the other thing that does come to mind, Darren, is I think there's a lot of people that might not say it quite this directly, but they would say, I tried it and it didn't work. I I tried this prayer thing and God did not answer the prayers. And it was so interesting to have a conversation with Johnny Erickson Tata as part of the research with this. And she's someone who became uh paralyzed when she was a teenager and has lived with chronic pain. And in many ways, you could look at her life and say, God has not answered her prayers. She has prayed for relief, she has prayed for healing, but it was unmistakable uh that she had this intimate and personal friendship with Jesus. Um unmistakable. And we asked her, like, yeah, how do you how do you reconcile these things on that? And our response, I'll never forget it. But she said, you know, I still pray for healing. And she said, when people come and ask me, I still will pray for whatever the issue is that they ask for prayer about. But she says, I will pray for that no more than 20% of the time. And the remaining 80%, I'm gonna pray that God would be in the midst of that circumstance, that God would be working to grant you courage and perseverance and God would use that to actually bring honor and glory to himself. And and that changed uh our prayer lives. The 2080 rule. We're still gonna pray for those things, but I would say, if anything, it was closer to 100 zero. God, here's what I want, here's what I want it, and I really would appreciate if you would do what I think is best. Um, that is one type of prayer, but I think Johnny's prayer is far more in alignment with what we see in scripture and far more dangerous to say, God, you know I want rescue in this place. You know, uh here's what I would like uh in this. But in the midst of it, grant me something that is even better than that. Grant me your peace and your presence in this. And I find it so interesting, even in Psalm 23, when David writes, he starts it out by saying, The Lord is my shepherd. He's writing about it in the third person, but then it shifts and it shifts from the Lord to you. It shifts to a relationship. And do you know when that shift happens? It happens in the valley of the shadow of death. That's when it shifts from the Lord to you. And I think that's what Johnny would say too. It's in those moments. Um that is that is ecstasy beyond compare to experience the presence of Christ in your pain. Um, that is that is even better than the uh prayers that we might be answering, uh, we might be praying um in the midst of it. So that's one very practical piece of even what are we praying for? Yeah. And if it is only here's what I want, I think about a friendship. Um, you got a friend that every time they meet, uh, come with a list of what they want from you. Uh, that's not a real strong friendship. And yet I think we can somehow have that as the relationship with our Heavenly Father, as opposed to a different sort of uh of friendship first. And that's what we heard from these leaders. It was like they wanted to pray because they saw this as an opportunity to be in relationship, to be close, um, yeah, with the one who made them, the one who knows them fully. And uh that's a different type of prayer uh than just here's here's what I want, Lord, in the timeline. Um, and if you don't mind, uh sprinkle these things into.
SPEAKER_00Yes, I love that. And I've come to a uh a really fascinating passage in Romans during this study I was just mentioning. Um, you know, in Romans chapter eight, where all through Romans he's talking about you're in right standing with God, like and it doesn't depend on you. You can't you can't come up with your own righteousness. And and the the he doesn't get to like any like practical like habits or applications or anything like that until he's until chapter eight where he talks about prayer. But even then, it's prayer when you don't even know what to pray. Um, and so the Holy Spirit is going to pray through you when you don't when you don't know what to pray. Like, what is what is have you experienced that?
SPEAKER_01So we said up front uh when we started this project, we are prayer enthusiasts, we are people who want to learn, we are not experts uh on that. And there are a lot of incredible books that have been written on prayer. Um, this is much more writing to leaders that are trying to figure out how do I do this with real, concrete, practical tools. So I say all that to say there is so much. I don't know exactly what that looks like, but I do. And there have been moments when you just come and you pour out your your heart and and and you don't have the words. Um, it's like you're playing sports, you get you get the wind knocked out of you, you don't have words. Um, and uh just with hands open and and saying, Lord, I need you. Um, and I do think in those moments I have had the experience of just the powerful reminder of Christ's nearness with you in that pain. Um yeah, so I don't know exactly how it works and I don't know the theological uh components of it, but I do know the experience of it when you're in pain and you know that Christ is near, uh, that that is ecstasy beyond compare.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, well, I hope that's encouraging to somebody, and as it is and has been to me, um, that you know, this is not about just trying to add more to your to-do list, you know, because you're sometimes life just gets so overwhelming and you just don't even know how to pray. Like, um, I mean, you can pray the the Lord's prayer, like there's plenty of it's probably we probably overcomplicate it, right? Um, but it can just even be as simple as a grunt, you know, or a sigh, or and just but just giving that to the Lord uh that I I don't know what's going on here, but Lord, just just be with me in the middle of this. I love what you were saying about what Johnny Erickson Tata shared, just praying that the Lord that you will know that the Lord is with you in the midst of that. Um, and then you know, because right after that passage in Romans at the end of that chapter, neither height nor depth, like nor ages, like despite all the tribulations and everything else, like he is never going to leave you. So encouraging. Peter, so where can people connect with you? Um LeadwithPrayer.com is the is the site for the book, and then of course, hopeinternational.org um is the site for the for the ministry. What else do you want to say about how people can connect and hear more?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and one thing that I would say is if you go to leadwithprayer.com, we put a bunch of tools available for free uh there. Uh my favorite are the these just prayer prompts. It's a prayer cards. Um, and so to your point, if you don't know where to start with this, uh go through a couple of these uh real simple cards that kind of give you some scripture and some questions and some prayer prompts that personally have been really helpful in uh those moments when it's like, I don't, I mean, you talk to some of these global leaders and they talk about praying for hours. I don't even know how to get beyond two minutes. And these tools can really help guide you in that. So that's one thing I'd highly recommend. And then just if there's anything I can try and do to be helpful or any information on the other books, I can go to peterkgreer.com and that's a way to uh connect with me. That's where I uh blog and and uh some other resources there as well. So anything that we can try and do to help, uh yeah, leadwithprayer.com or peterkgreer.com as well.
SPEAKER_00Beautiful. Peter, thank you so much for encouraging and equipping us today, and we're all better for it. And may God continue to bless you and your ministry and all of your collaborative efforts.
SPEAKER_01Thank you. This has been a delight. Thanks so much, Dan.
SPEAKER_00We hope you've enjoyed this episode, and if so, we would greatly appreciate it if you'd leave us a quick rating and review for the Christianity and Business Podcast on iTunes. You can get more information about HCU's Center for Christianity and Business and sign up to receive free access to all issues of the Christian Business Review Journal by visiting our website at Christianityandbusiness.com. Thanks for listening and remember to keep integrating biblical values into your business.